pavilions-msg - 8/26/10
The making of medieval pavilions.
NOTE: See also the files: p-tents-msg, p-tent-const-art, tent-alt-msg,
tent-making-msg, tent-fabrics-msg, tent-sources-msg, tents-weather-msg,
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messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium.
These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
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Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: Lord Stefan li Rous
mark.s.harris at motorola.com stefan at florilegium.org
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From: DEGROFF at intellicorp.COM (Leslie DeGroff)
Date: 9 May 91 18:58:03 GMT
An changing topics still again
Yaakov HaMizrachi
> 50 5x6 ft peices of fabric for a bedoen tent 750 sq ft <
Its the right order of magnitude for a medium sized one,
? Were you including a floor... those types of tents typically
did not have floors, rugs and cushions were extra.
Size may depend on your intent, if it's mostly to camp in
you might get by with half that.. if you wish to entertain
as a proper wealthy nomad might, a roughly 20 by 20 , 6 ft
at drop point,8 ft in the center tent would take about that
much (with out a floor, more if you modernize)
Estrella Weather
Date: 24 Feb 92
From: dlc at hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Dennis Clark)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
mary at ossi.com (Mary Seabrook) writes:
> Hindsight, being the best way of predicting anything of course, says that
> there was an announcement in court on Saturday evening about the imminent
> arrival of a cold front.
>
> This brought high winds (I think 75 mph gusts were mentioned) and some rain
> although that was minor in comparison to the wind.
>
> Having chosen prime battle-front property for our encampment, we discovered
> that the large expanse of open field just gave the wind a clear access to
> the camp!
>
> I didn't hear of any major problems, and the Ramadas were set up as
> temporary sleeping areas for those people who had lost thier accomodations.
By all accounts that I got that Saturday evening, and again Sunday morning
it seems that about a third of the tents went down temporarily or permanently.
It was a BIG wind. I am happy to say that even though the sturdy mundane
tents took a beating, the two "Tentmaster's" period pavillions in the barony's
encampment ignored the wind completely! Those pavillions took in the orphaned
that night. It was kind of fun anyway, lots of off-the-cuff bardics were
spawned by the storm 8*)
> Elizabeth
Kevin
Pavilions - Cost - Materials - Time to Erect
Date: 19 Jun 92
From: haslock at rust.zso.dec.com (Nigel Haslock)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation - DECwest Engineering
I built my pavilion because I was tired of living, with my family, in a dome
tent for the two weeks I was spending at Pennsic each year. The pavilion has
been slightly revised a couple of times since then.
Cost to reproduce in its current form ~ $350
Materials - { roughly 45 yds of 60" twill, 6 board foot of Ash,
8 x 8' by 1" Schedule 80 PVC pipe, 100' 1/2" manilla
or sisal, 200' 3/16" nylon cord, 2 sq ft oiled leather,
11 large wooden stakes, 15 small stakes (6" plastic),
40 grommets, 16" of 2" galvanized iron pipe, 11' of 3/4"
dowel }
Time to Erect - 30 to 45 minutes working alone (extra bodies do not help much)
Size - 15 foot diameter circle, 5'6" high walls, 15' ground to roof peak.
The fabric and poles are carried around in a kit bag with the
poles sticking out of the end. The ropes stakes and mallet are
carried in a milk crate.
The fabric I bought was fine twill labeled either gabardine or sailcloth and
is an appropriate weight for making raincoats. As such it can be (and was)
sewn without problem on a household sewing machine. I considered treating
the cloth with a waterpoofing agent but eventually neglected to do so because
of the cost. I chose to use polycotton because I fine that polycotton wears
well and blocks evough UV to prevent my skin from burning.
The pavillion saw more rain at Pennsic that it has in the Great Northwest. It
has not been waterproofed but is effective at keeping rain out. The tension
on the roof fabric and the slope of the roof seen to be adequate to shed
rain. There is no point at which bellies can form on the roof so the water
runs down the dags and onto the walls. The things is big enough that it is
easy to avoid contact with the wet walls. As might be expected, heavy rain
punches through the fabric as a mist. We keep a supply of drop cloths and
tarps to protect stuff from such mist.
Canvas seemed like overkill to me. Perhaps it would make sense if the
pavillion were to be exposed to the elements for longer periods each year. As
it is, the pavillion is in its fourth year. It has been used for between 10
and 20 days every year and the only signs of wear are a few spots where the
dye has run, or the grommets failed, or the fabric is trying to pull at a
seam.
The roof is a cone made in ten triangular panels. The panels were cut from
60" wide cloth and the length of a seam is 11'6". To produce a round roof,
rather than an angular one, the roof edge was arced instead of straight,
and arced with a radius of 11'6". Laying the panels out and cutting them was
one of the more difficult steps. I ended up making a pile of five layers of
cloth on the patio and playing with chalk and string to mark the cuts. Each
layer of fabric provided one complete panel and two half panels.
There is a 3" diameter hole at the peak which is reinforced by a wide strip
of oiled leather inside and out. The strip is pierced by four grommets. Pieces
of rope are passed through the holes to form to loops. A rope is tied to these
loops and then to the top of the center pole to suspend the roof.
A cloth tube is sewn to the edge of the roof. This tube is just big enough to
carry the PVC pipe. The PVC pipe is cut into 11 sections, 5' long. A piece of
dowel is fastened to one end of each section of pipe. The pieces of dowel are
6" long and 3/4" in diameter and they are fastened so that 3" of dowel
protrudes from the end of the pipe. When collopsed, 10 of these sections of
pipe are left in the cloth tube and the roof is folded along the seams between
the panels. To erect the tent, the edge of the roof is stretched out and the
sections of pipe are joined together. Forcing the eleventh setion of pipe
into the tube and closing the sections into a ring provings all of the
needed rigidity. The cloth tube should be slightly longer than is necessary
for the hoop. That way the PVC is completely concealed when the hoop is in
place.
I bought a lump of ash at a timberyard. It was 6' long, 6" wide and 8/4 or
2" thick. I had the man rip cut it into three sections, roughly 2" square
and 6' long. The hardware store provided some 2" diameter galvanized pipe
for the sockets. Some time in the workshop was necessary to shape the ends
of the ash sections to make them fit. The top section of the pole was also
carved down so that ropes tied there would not slide down the pole. I believe
that this pole is much heavier than it needs to be, but I am not willing to
spend money on replacement, lighter, versions (it ain't broke so I ain't going
to fix it!).
Having tied the roof to the top of the pole, I tie the center of another rope
to the top of the pole, giving me three guy lines to the top of the pole.
I knock three stakes into ground centered on the foot of the pole. I tie two
of the guy lines to two stakes. I then use some spare stakes to form a box
for the foot of the pole in the direction of the third stake. I can then,
singlehand, pull the pole up by the third guy line. Once the pole is up, I
tie the guy line to the stake and adjust the tension on all of the guy lines.
The edge of the roof also carries the dagging and a set of 'crows foot' lines.
There are eight groups of crows foot lines, evenly spaced around the roof.
Each group consists of two lines that make overlapping loops. The loops lie
outside the dagging but the ends are threaded between the roof and the dags
and are spliced around the tube carrying the PVC pipe (I am sure that
simply tying them would work but I enjoy splicing rope).
With the roof set up, the next step is to stake down the crows feet. A guy line
is tied through both loops of a group to a stake so that the guy line is close
to vertical. The guy lines may need to be adjusted to get the edge of the
roof to be horizontal. It is very easy to get one guy line too short and so
distort the roof line.
The walls can now be attatched (this is amusing in high winds). The walls are
simply a long strip a fabric, 5'6" wide. They need loops at the bottom edge
to take stakes and they need small loops at the top edge to take toggles
or some other form of button. The buttons or toggles must be attached to the
edge of the roof or around the pipe tube. I have a button every 12 inches or
so. Making sure that you have absolutely regular spacing of the buttons and
button loops means that you can start anywhere (I didn't do that so I waste
time trying to find the start point and orienting it so that the door is
where I want it to be). All of my loops are made by means of rope through
grommets and the grommets that last are through pieces of leather.
My walls come in two pieces so that I have both a front and a back door. The
back door is rarely used however. My walls also have a 5' overlap at the front
door. This was so that one could leaving or enter during a storm without
letting rain into the tent. The overlay has been put to another use at the last
two events. Unbuttoning a few more feet of wall from the roof allows the ends
to be tied to the center pole to provide a shetered nook for visitors while
maintaining privacy for the contents of the pavilion, i.e. allowing me to
concel the mundanities of the rest of my gear.
A possible improvement would be to carry a few sticks that are the height of
the wall and have fitments to care the hoop at the top. These could be used to
support both the hoop and the wall on the upwind side of the tant. Today, when
the wind blows, the upwind wall bellies into the tent, lowering the roof edge.
The downwind edge does not move, or it rises if the tent wall was inadequately
staked down.
The interior of the pavilion is huge. The reason for the size to allow a
double bed to be set up at one side of the center pole (anything less than
14' requires that there be no center pole. The walls are high enough that one
can stand erect anywhere inside the tent (although anyone over 5' tall must
duck under the dagging to get it. My family is too undisciplined to be tidy
so our possessions tend to spread out untidily to fill the space. On the
other hand, as a Lord, is not my duty to be extravagant?
I realize that this description may not be adequate to reproduce my pavillion
but I hope that it might encourage someone else to try. In addition to the
materials, I would guess that I spent about 40 hours putting the pieces
together. I feel that anyone who can afford a new cabin tent can probably
afford to build a pavillion and that the trade off between authenticity and
convenience is not that great.
Fiacha
Aquaterra, AnTir
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle at watson.ibm.com (Arval Benicoeur)
Subject: Re: Pavillions
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1993 18:17:08 GMT
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research
Greetings from Arval!
Robur wrote:
> What are the plusses and minuses you have found with owning a pavillion?
> Ones that come to mind for me are the ground cloth not being an
> integtral, and hense bug free, part of the pavillion. Or, stability in
> wind of a 14 foot high sail.
I own a 14 ft. mitred octagon pavilion made by Tentmasters, and I have
absolutely no complaints. I have not run afoul either of the problems you
listed. The walls of my pavilion drape onto the ground and are well-staked
into place; I have a separate heavy plastic tarp which I use as a
groundcloth; it covers the entire floor and folds up about three inches all
around. I've never had any problems with bugs or moisture getting in under
the walls. A well-designed pavilion should have no problem standing up to
anything short of serious stormwinds. At Esterlla last year, the windstorm
knocked down many pavilions; I am told that not a single Tentmasters
pavilion blew down. Tentmasters products aren't cheap, but you get what
you pay for. I recommend that you buy their full package, with poles,
stakes, ropes, and bags. They make fitted groundclothes; I didn't get one.
The two annoyances that I've had to deal with are transportation and
cleaning. My car is not suited to transporting 9 ft. tent poles; if you
have a larger vehicle or a roof rack, this should be no problem. A
pavilion needs to be put up for cleaning and thorough airing and drying
before it can be stored; otherwise, the fabric will rot. If you don't have
a place to erect your pavilion convenient to your home, this can be a pain.
===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur mittle at watson.ibm.com
From: haslock at rust.zso.dec.com (Nigel Haslock)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pavillions
Date: 20 Apr 1993 18:58:09 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation - DECwest Engineering
I have a pavillion I made myself. It is about 15' across and about the same
high. It has a single center pole and a sectional PVC pipe hoop. It is made of
polycotton sailcloth. I can set up camp in about an hour. unassisted if there
is no wind. Helpers are necessary if there is and noticable wind. Teardown
takes about as long, mostly due to time spent packing stuff.
The pavillion provides a lot of space and encourages the family to be
excessively untidy (including myself).
It has been used at Pennsic and has survived both wind and rain there. A
couple of drop cloths are recommended. Rain tends to punch through the
fabric as a light mist and get everything exposed damp. The huge air volume
makes the tent slow to react to temperature changes. It stays warm longer
in the evenings and cool longer in the morning. Bugs have not been a problem.
I consider the lack of an integral groundcloth to be an advantage as my
biggest problem used to be puddles forming on top of the groundcloth. We
put down groundcloths where we are going to pile our possessions. Any water
that creeps under the walls tends to seed into the ground before it can
do any damage.
The volume also means that it is no hardship to keep everything away from the
walls.
The height and striking color of the pavilion makes it a landmark in any camp
and thus makes it easier for our children to find their way home (my apologies
to obsessive autocrats but I feel that children have a right and a need to
send some time out of sight of their parents). Commercial pavillions tend to
be monochrome and thus this may not be a general advantage.
One of the biggest advantages for me is that it simply looks more
authentic.
A possible disadvantage is that it becomes a little more difficult to hand
your tent to an 'advance party' and expect to find it set up when you arrive.
The tent is bulkier and heavier than a modern equivalent. If you have to
teardown in the rain, it will be that much more of a problem to dry it out
after you get home. Use of natural fibers means that you will have to
worry about mildew and insect damage to the fabric.
Fiacha
Aquaterra, AnTir
From: DEW at ECL.PSU.EDU (Baron Dur al-Jabar)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Tent Fire-proofing...a solution is found!
Date: 17 May 1993 02:24:22 GMT
Organization: Orluk Oasis
Greetings!
Countess Mariake asked me earlier this year if I knew of a fire-proofing for
tents. At the time, the only thing I knew about was available commericially
and not cheap.
Enter Palymar (comming in with the two best "solutions" of Pennsic so far)
with information and sources for this material.
In short, it is a water soluable spray that you can apply yourself to your
tent (it is non-toxic), and it will "fire-proof" the tent. (We did a demo
using some cotton fabric that we lightly treated with the spray. After it
dried, we soaked the fabric with an accelerant and set it on fire. The areas
that were treated _didn't even scorch_, while the rest just burned away.)
The pricing on this is not set (nobody retails it yet), but it might be
something around $20/qt or $65/gal (a qt will cover 250 sq ft, and a gal
covers 1000 sq ft).
Dur
(Next time you see Palymar, remember to thank him for the other "solution" of
Pennsic, the hand-washing dispensers in the porta-castles. And you thought he
was only a stick-jock...)
Dale E. Walter |Dur of Hidden Mountain
dew at ecl.psu.edu |Orluk Oasis on the War Road (of Aethelmarc)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt at pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Error in Complete Anachronist
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Fri, 21 May 1993 22:48:06 GMT
In article <1993May21.193414.28909 at umr.edu> asparrow at cs.umr.edu (Aethelynda d'Eath) writes:
>Puzzled greetings from Calanais.
>
>My lady mother and I are constructing a
>A-frame Viking Pavillion as per the CA "Pavillions
>of the Knowne World"
>
>However: Figure four of the article has nothing
>to do with what the text says it does. It should
>give the dimensions of the tent's end, but instead shows an example
>of opposing frame decoration.
>
>I have done the calculations for the triangle
>and would like someone who has made such
>a tent to confirm. The dimensions are (not counting
>seam allowances) 4' base, 7' height, and a bit over
>8' on the hypoteneuse.
>
>If anyone has any other suggestions on tent-making,
>I would be interested.
Having been using this type of tent for something over 20 years....
My ends are 8-foot equilateral triangles, so that makes the end flaps
what you've calculated. It is, however, a good idea to allow them to
overlap a bit. You can also drill holes (about 1/2") in the bottom
board, stick a rope loop through the hole, put grommets near the edge
of teh flap and tie the loop to the grommet to keep the flaps closed.
For heavier weather, have a row of grommets all the way up and either
lace the flaps shut or otherwise fasten them together.
--Hal
Hal Ravn, West Kingdom
Wilson H. Heydt, Jr., Albany, CA 94706, 510/524-8321 (home)
--
Hal Heydt |
Analyst, Pacific*Bell | If you think the system is working,
510-823-5447 | Ask someone who's waiting for a prompt.
whheydt at pbhya.PacBell.COM |
From: haslock at rust.zso.dec.com (Nigel Haslock)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: tent size
Date: 26 May 1993 21:16:35 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation - DECwest Engineering
Greetings from Fiacha,
Thank you for the encouragement Winifred.
This is going to be as brief as I can make it but it will still be long.
permission is granted to reproduce this as much as anyone cares to.
As Winifred pointed out I made two round pointy pavillions. The first was a
prototype and is little more than a store tent. The second one was intended
for me and my lady to live in at Pennsic and is roughly 15' internal diameter.
The minor guylines go out about 18" but the three main guy lines go out
about 6'. Fitting the pavillion in a 20' square is reasonable and keeping
my youngest daughter in the tent gives us about 130sq ft each for a large and
imposing period pavillion.
(Note. The reason for the 15' diameter was that it allows a double bed to fit
between the pole and the walls. My goal was a 14' diameter but I was not
going to waste material when the roof panels provided a little extra.)
Cost. Last time I calculated the cost, I estimated $350 to replace the
pavillion, including all ropes, poles grommets and other incidentals.
Packing size. The fabric, ropes, pegs and hoop sections make a 5'6" bundle.
The main pole was intended to be 3 6' sections but I forgot to allow for the
joints and have since shortened one of the sections. A second attempt would
make them fit in the 5'6" bundle. I can't swear to the bundle being a foot in
diameter but is not much bigger than that.
Weight. The pavillion weighs about 100 pounds all told.
Time to erect. Under most conditions, I can erect the pavillion, without help,
in under an hour. One or two helpers can get it up faster. More than two
helpers are a waste of energy. High wind can make life difficult if not
impossible. There are a number of designs that require precision placement
of guy lines (Designs that have the guy line be integral with a roof seam) but
I rejected them as being too fussy to erect. The hoop is very forgiving in
this respect. One of my worst experiences was with rocky ground which tended
to break my wooden stakes.
Design. The pavillion consists of a roof and a set of wall panels. The roof is
held up by a single center pole. The edge of the roof is held out by an
integral hoop. There are three guy lines to the top of the center pole.
There are eight crows feet to the hoop. The walls button onto the roof at the
hoop and are staked to the ground.
The roof is made as a smooth circular cone. The tip of the cone is a 3" hole
reinforced with a leather collar. The collar is pierced by four grommets
through wich a harness is tied. This harness is lasthed to the top of
the center pole. { I tried to use Cariadoc's system of a pulley and hoist to
raise the roof. With the light fabric used I found it faster to lash the roof
to the pole and hoist both at the same time. )
At the edge of the roof is sewn a line of dagging and a cloth tube which
carries the hoop. The inside of the tube is smooth so that there is nothing
for the hoop sections to catch on. Assembling the hoop is the slowest part of
the erection process. The hoop consists of 11 lengths of Schedule 40 3/4" PVC
pipe. A 6" dowel plug is screwed into one end of each section so that 3"
protrudes. Ideally, 10 sections are left in the cloth tube when the roof is
taken down. (Since the roof consists of 10 panels, this matches the
obvious folding pattern).
At regular intervals, crows foot ropes punch through the seam between the roof
and the dagging and form loops around the cloth tube. There are eight sets of
crows feet and four lines to each crows foot. There is a 3/4" hem between the
tube and the dagging. This hem is pierced with grommet holes for the lines
and the the buttons to which the walls attach. I believe that it is important
for the lines to loop around the hoop, so as to avoid the lines pulling
out of the roof.
The walls are simple strips of cloth. They are not shaped to provide a flair.
The top edge has a series of grommet holes for the buttons, the bottom edge
has a series of stake loops. The walls are long enough to overlap by 6'. This
allows people to move in and out when it is raining without letting the rain
into the pavillion. It also allow the walls to be run in to the center pole
on sunny days, turning about a third of the tent into a public sun shade.
The walls are 5'6" high. This puts the buttons at eye level, speeding erection
of the pavillion. The dags are 12" tall, so it is necessary to duck to enter
the pavillion (unless one is a child or really short).
The pavillion is made from polycotton sailcloth or gabardine. It has not been
waterproofed. Nevertheless, it keeps the rain out (except for a fine mist
when the rain is hitting rally hard. The tension on the roof seems to persuade
the rain to bounce or run off. The walls tend to saturate in heavy rain but
the pavillion is large enough that it is easy to keep away from the walls.
The roof consists of 10 panels cut as sections of a 11' radius circle. They
were cut from 60" wide fabric. (Actually, the thare 5 full panels and 5
panels made from two halves). I used french seams to join the panels and a
dressmakers sewing machine for all of the sewing. I wanted a better than 45
degree angle to the roof so the roof panel radius needs to be about 1 1/2
times the radius of the hoop.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|------______ |
| ------______ |
| ------______ half panel |
| ------______ |
| ------______ |
| ------_____|
| full panel ______-----|
| ______------ |
| ______------ |
| ______------ half panel |
| ______------ |
|______------ |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The dags are sewn to each other as well as to the roof. If the dags are not
sewn to each other, the will flip up in a light wind and expose the gap
between the walls and the roof. Ventilation might be good but letting the
rain in is not such a good idea. I used 55 dags, roughly 12" wide.
The walls can be as tall as the maker desires. Add panels the width of the
fabric until they are long enough. I made mine in two sections to allow a
back door into the tent. In practice, this door is rarely used and the fabric
is light enough that the full length is easily managed.
The center pole I made from 2" square ash. I bought a length of 1 1/2" iron
pipe for the joints and used a rasp to shape the ash to fit the joints.
This is seriously heavier than it needs to be but it does mean that I have
no fears of it failing while I am asleep or out of the encampment. The
ropes are heavy manilla for the same reasons. The top 9" of the center pole
is shaved down so that the guy lines will not slip down when tied to
the pole. I tie one line to the top of the roof with a sheet bend and then
tie it to the pole with a clove hitch. The other line is twice as long and
I use a clove hitch to tie the center of it to the pole.
The pavillion is now in its seventh year and is beginning to show signs of
age in that some seams are beinning to pull.
Steps to erect pavillion.
1. Lay out roof. Lay out hoop sections in rough circle.
2. Fit sections of hoop together and lock into full circle.
3. Assemble pole and poke tip through hole in top of roof.
4. Tie guy lines to roof and top of pole. Move base of pole to desired
center of pavillion position. Set stakes for guylines in rough
equilateral triangle centered on base of pole.
5. Move top of pole to midway between two stakes. Add pennent. Drop guy lines
on two stakes.
6. Use helper or additional stakes to stop bottom of pole from moveing while
hauling on third guy line. Once pole is vertical drop guy line over third
stake (Steps 5 and 6 assume that the pavillion has been set up before so
that the guy lines are close to the right length and that the stakes are
in the roughly the same places). Having a helper on each guy line is a
good idea, provided that they can adjust the guy lines.
7. Tie a guy line to each crows foot (I use a sheet bend). This guy line
is staked close to vertical to resist the roof lifting.
8. Stake down each guy line line.
9. Button the walls to the roof.
10. Stake down the walls
8a. Move all of your belongings into the tent. It is a lot easier to do this
before the walls go up because you can walk through where the walls are
going to go.
Note. Crows foot. This is a fan of lighter lines than a guy line which goes
from a guy line to the edge of the roof of the pavillion in many drawings
of period pavillions. I believe that the intent is to spread the strain of
holding the tent against the wind over a large section of the hoop. Using
a single line would focus the strain a one point which might break the hoop
and thus cause the tent to collapse. My crows feet consist of two loops that
cross.
==========================================================
| | | |
\ \ / /
\ \ / /
\ \ / /
\ \/ /
\ /\ /
------ -------
The guy line ties around both loop tightly enough that the strains can
be equalized between the elements of the crows foot.
Shopping list.
6' x 6" x 8/4 Ash (get the lumberyard to ripsaw it into 6'x2"x2")
12" of 1 1/2" galvanized iron pipe (hardware or pumbing supply)
(use hacksaw to cut in half)
44yds 60"polycotton sailcloth (fabric store)
150ft 1/2" manilla (hardware store)
200ft 1/4" manilla (hardware store)
2 sq ft 2-3oz leather (leather supplier)
6 12' 3/4" Sch40 PVC pipe (hardware or pumbing supply)
6' 3/4" dowel (hardware)
24 1/2" countersunk wood screws (hardware)
lots of grommets. (hardware)
36 toggle buttons (fabric store)
11 big stakes for guy lines (hardware store or local smith)
12 smaller stakes for the walls (camping supply)
The leather is to reinforce the grommets as wells as form the collar.
Grommets have a depressing tendency to pull out if simply set into the
cloth.
The cloth gets used like this
3yds = 1 plus 2 half roof panels
15yds = complete roof.
2yds = one section of wall
24yds = complete wall
2 yds = tube
3 yds = dagging
There is no need to make a plain tent. Mine uses five colors because that
was what they had in stock when I went shopping.
The main guy lines need to be 25' to 30'. The crows foot guy lines need to
be 8' to 10'. The light manilla is for the crows feet which take 2 6' pieces
each and for the button strings. I run one string between two buttons. Absolute
ruglar spacing is a must, otherwise the wall will only fit one way and you
nedd to work harder putting the tent up (or you live with the door in the wrong
place). Extra light line will find a use (lacing walls shut, hoop to center
pole partition lines, etc.).
When making the poles fit the sockets, make one side fit tightly. Make the
other side fit and then soak in linseed oil and shape to a loose fit again.
If you ignore this step, the joint will swell in the first rain and you
will not be able to separate the joint when the time comes to pack up and go
home. The choice of oil is not critical, getting the wood saturated with
something that will not dry out is critical. Galvanized iron pipe will
resist rust better than painted.
/
/roof
/ _________seam line, with breaks for crows
/ / foot line
/ v grommeted hole for button string or
===== | crows foot line
===== v
| ====== ===========\
| ====== ===\ tube \ Cloth tube should be a
| \ for | close fit for the PVC
| \hoop / pipe but not tight.
| -----
|dag
|
Choose toggle buttons that will fit through your grommet holes or grommets
that will fit your toggles. A button every 18" is adequate and a ground stake
every 5' (i.e. at every seam) has worked well enough. Extra stake options near
the door can simplify life. Placing a stake under each button in this region
is a good idea.
From: ilaine at panix.com (Liz Stokes)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: tents and bugs (Re: Tent size for Pennsic)
Date: 29 May 1993 06:54:03 -0400
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC
Last year was the first year I camped with my pavillion, and I
learned just how many flies can fit in a large comfy tent. For Christmas I
was given a copy of 'A Medieval Home Companion: Housekeeping in the Fourteenth
Century' and among other extrememly interesting bits of information -
mosquito netting is period :) - there are instructions for several ways to
rid a room of flies:
"If you have a room or a house where many flies gather, take little
bunches of ferns, tie them together, shred them at the edges, and hang them
up: all the flies will lodge on them in teh eening. Then take down these
fringes and throw them away.
In the evening, close up your room well, so that there is only a little
hole in the wall toward the east. As soon as dawn breaks, all the flies will
go out through the hole, whih should thenbe closed up.
Take a dish of milk and a hare's gall [anyone know what this is?]
and mix them together; then put two or three dishes of this in places where
flies settle, and all those who taste it will die.
Fasten linen cloth to the botom of a pot that has a hole in the ase.
Put this pot in a place where flies gatehr, and smear the inside with honey
apples, or pears. When it is thoroughly full of flies, put a trencher over the
mouth and shake it.
Take raw red onions, crush them, squeeze the juice into a dish, put
the dish where flies congregate, and all those who taste it will die.
Have paddles for killing them by hand.
Have limed twigs on a basin of water.
Have your windows so tightly sealed with waxed cloth, parchment, or
something else, that no fly can get in. The flies that are inside may be
killed with the paddle, or by one of the methods described above, and no
others will come in.
Have a hanging cord soaked in honey: the flies will settle on it. In
the evening let them be caught in a sack.
Finally, it seems to me that flies will not setle in a room where there
are no covered tables, benches, bupboards, or other things on which they can
light and rest. For if they have nothing except flat walls to grip, they
won't settle at all. Nor will they stay in a place that is dark or wet. So it
seems to me that if a room is well dampened, well closed, and well sealed,
and if nothing is left lying on the plate, no fly will settle there."
whew, my fingers are tired :)
-Ilaine
--
Liz Stokes | Vikings? There ain't no vikings here, just us honest
Ilaine de Cameron | farmers. The town was burning, the villagers were
| dead. They didn't need those sheep anyway. That's our
ilaine at panix.com | story and we're sticking to it.
From: james at nucleus.cuc.ab.CA (James Prescott)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Compact Pavilions
Date: 28 May 1993 22:14:22 -0400
Organization: Nucleus BBS - Calgary, AB CANADA + 1 403 531-9353
To: sca at mc.lcs.mit.edu
Dennis O'Connor and Aliskye MacKyven Raizel ask about compact
pavilions:
-
My pavilion appears to be a circular medieval tent with a tall conical
roof and nearly vertical walls, with a flag flapping at the peak. The
inside diameter is 14 feet (two double beds plus stowage), and the
total height is about 12 feet. It is in vertical black and red (well,
pink nowadays) stripes. There is a single central pole, and 16 guy
ropes from the edge of the roof. There is a bright yellow cloth
please-do-not-trip-over-these-guy-ropes strip on short stakes
around the perimeter of the guy ropes. There is an interior floor.
It has so far proven bomb-proof in hostile weather. The whole thing,
including the hammer, weighs just 42 pounds. The pole sections fit
crossways inside a Rabbit. It is air-transportable, at least in theory.
The whole thing can be erected by one person in just 30 minutes,
without heroics or great mental effort, at 5:30 am in a rain storm
by a very tired person who has just been driving for 12 hours straight.
-
It appears thoroughly medieval. From a respectable distance.
-
From close up you find that almost all the materials are modern,
from the heavy nylon packcloth walls and nylon snap buckles and
nylon ropes to the galvanized top rail from a chain link fence. Four
short sections of these galvanized poles, with their swaged ends,
form the centre pole. Apart from the shape, just about the only
period detail is a custom brass fitting at the peak for the centre
pole. The whole thing took me something over 200 hours, which
includes *all* design time, *all* shopping time, etc.
-
James Prescott (james at nucleus.cuc.ab.ca), (403) 282-0541
Thorvald Grimsson, OP, OL, OGGS, Baron of Montengarde, Yeoman
Royal Archer for Crown Principality of Avacal, Kingdom of An Tir
... and in Iceland 'tis the year of the White Christ 973 ...
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: hwt at bcarh11a.BNR.CA (Henry Troup)
Subject: Re: Compact Pavilions
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Mon, 31 May 1993 12:43:39 GMT
|>It appears thoroughly medieval. From a respectable distance.
Last year, I saw a camoflage pattern dome tent. From a moderate
distance, it looked like a wattle and daub hut. Really it did, quite amazing.
Henry Troup - H.Troup at BNR.CA (Canada) - BNR owns but does not share my opinions
From: haslock at rust.zso.dec.com (Nigel Haslock)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: In tents questions...
Date: 1 Jun 1993 23:58:09 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation - DECwest Engineering
A few responses to Bertram's questions. Please note, these are not answers as
I have no data to support my suppositions.
1. Grommets. I would be most surprised to discover grommets in period tents.
Instead I would expect to find a piece of leather sewn to the cloth and a
hole cut through both leather and fabric. Another option I have tried is
to stitch down a ring of light rope or heavy cord to the edge of the hole.
2. I suggest that only nomads and nobles who spent a lot of time either on
campaigns or at tourneys had tents. Travelling merchants are a form of
nomad. Pilgrims would not have had tents and would spent their nights at
religious establishments of one sort or another, or at inns if their
pilgrimage was merely an excuse to travel.
With a town every 15 to 20 miles along every road worth mentioning, and
a village every 5 miles or so in the gaps, finding an inn should not
have been a problem.
3. Assuming that one is on campaign, implies a retinue and a wagon for
supplies. Nomads are more likely to pack everything on horses, mules or
camels.
4. Equating recreational use of tents to attending tournaments, I would
imagine that the insides were filled with more expensive equipment to
try to impress visiting nobility.
5. Why assume that waterproofing was an issue? A little dampness can be lived
with if any rain punches through the fabric. If the fabric saturates, the
water will simply run down the roof and walls to the ground (where the
appropriate drainage ditches will carry the water away). As long as the
structure will support the weight of saturated fabric, waterproofing is an
unnecessary expense.
Felt is a little different as saturated felt may not be able to support
its own weight and so self destruct. My local expert asserts that milk
is the only medium that will successfully waterproof felt.
Another choice is to assume that some tents were made of leather, in which
case, again, waterproofing should be unnecessary. Oiling the leather
might be necessary to extend the life of the leather and have the side
effect of keeping the water out of the leather.
6. Why assume that nobles lived in tents in winter? Nomads did and nomads
used blankets and quilts and had indoor fires. As far as I can tell,
western europeans did not hold campaigns or tournaments during the
winter months.
Warmth would have been more of an issue for the lower classes who did not
get the priviledge of sleeping inside the tent. I know of little evidence
for fur lined cloaks. One Irish leader issued his men with sheepskin
cloaks, with the fur on the inside. However, this is remembered because
it was highly unusual. The Irish brat, like the Scot's kilt, is a rectangle
of fabric that will easily double as a blanket.
I would expect a noble to equip his pavillion with a bed and bedding so
that warmth was not an issue.
7. The earliest pavillion picture that I know of is an illustration in
Alphonso's compendium of games, created around 1270. It shows a pointy
top pavillion with lots of extra ropes. This does not match the modern
arabic tents in any way.
Using Asterix the Gaul as a secondary source for roman tent designs, we
see squad tents and officer tents. The officer tent, being round and pointy
topped, looks like the origin of the design of the arming pavillion.
Thus, it is my feeling that Arabic tent designs did not enter western
Europe and that, until very recently, all tents were variations of the
Roman design. Note that the Viking ship shelter also did not get used by
anyone else.
Fiacha
From: PBOYNTON%SESCVA at SNYBUFVA.BITNET (ROWENA NI DHONNCHAIDH)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Tent size at Pennsic
Date: 2 Jun 1993 18:57:14 -0400
Organization: from SUNY College at Buffalo, NY 14222
Sebastian wrote:
"Seriously... What alternatives are there for pavilion material?"
There are many. Waterproof canvass can be had for $3 a yard for 60" wide,
from National Canvas in Buffalo, NY. I know a member of my household who
makes pavillions for sale: a 10x10 can cost about $200. I am currently
making one for Duke Sir Morguhn Sheridan in bright leaf green and gold/orange
(his colors) that will cost about $150. I am basing it on a roof made out of an 11x14 8 oz canvas tarp that cost me $45 at Builders Square, and I am adding
the green stripes (from another water resistant cloth material) to that.
Ditto for the triangular ends & the walls - they are being built from
6x8 tarps that cost $16 each. This is a far easier method than the
green & white striped, 18x18 pavillion I built from scratch last summer, and
merchanted from. May I also point out that I am an over 30, self-supporting
adult who is also going to college (and paying for all of it), and hold both
a regional office & two local offices? Making a pavillion involves more
steadfastness in not giving up than it really does anything else, and I don't
feel it took all that much time - less than 2 weeks working on it part time.
It would have helped a lot if I had had anyone to help me turn and MOVE
that much canvas!
So it really doesn't have to cost alot of money to have a pavillion.
ANd it doesn't take that much work - at least, not compared to the silk on
silk embroidered garb I do!
As for me, this year I'm merchanting in a professionally made tent
I picked up at the bankruptcy auction of a caterer's business.
Some mention has been made of the earliest date of sources for tents
& pavillions being about 1200. The book on how to build pavillions that
Mediaeval Miscellanea puts out also shows many different styles of pavillions
copied from manuscripts. They show some from 9th & 10th century manuscripts - around arming type is listed as a Moorish tent from the 10th century.
May I also point out that it was not just the tent size that led to
the Pennsic restrictions? It was how people laid out there encampments.
This is why you must submit a "floor plan" of how you will place tents and
use the space - and why these are checked. Some people had a tent, covered it
with a larger tarp, set up a gathering space area under another tarp, had a
common area - also sometimes under another tarp, etc. Enough of this in
any group meant a huge amount of space -especially when the encampment was
laid out to maximize space between tents. And there were those encampments
that 1) set up their own tourney/practice field; 2) set up a practice archery
range (by the solar showers one year.). Etc, etc.
To thoses gentles who e-mailed me asking who is now King's Champion
of the East, my apologies for not mentioning it when I posted on the two
knightings. Out of the 630+ gentles who attended, 126 entered the tourney.
Sir Wulfstan Thorhallson emerged the victor.
Her Majesty, Genevieve, chose from the unbelted for her champion,
Lord Everard, whom I am not familiar with. Her decison to choose him for
his courtesy and chivalry during the tourney, as well as his fighting skill,
met with many vivats and applause from the many gentles assembled, however.
Rowena ni Dhonnchaidh
Shire of Glenn Linn, EK
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: goobers at iastate.edu (Tom R Dennis)
Subject: Re: Period Tents (Viking Ship Shelters)
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1993 00:09:46 GMT
>Could any one who's made a Viking tent send me details on the dimensions,
>materials, joinings, waterproofing, door construction, etc. that they
>used. Please don't suggest I go to Wal-mart or some other specific
>business as there probably aren't any here (Ealdormere) or use brand
>names but do describe what materials are used in detail so I can find
>something equivalent. Let me know too how much time and money it took and
>how pleased you are with the results.
Hell yes I've made a Viking tent, and it works fabulous. What you
need for a 10 x10 x 7.5 high tent. 1) heavy fabric unbleached canvas about
11.5 to 12 oz. 11' x 20' square, best to have too much than not enough. 2) 4
- 10' 2 x 6 pine boards (it's worth one's while to go through a whole pile of
boards to get the best quality). 3) 2 - 1" x 5' steel water pipe and 1 coupler
(forms the ridge pole). 4) 50' of 1/4" cotton rope (or better if you have the
cash ). and 5) 1 10' 2 x 6 pine.
Construction: Buy fabric and sew til you drop. We used french seams
and a very stout old Singer machine. It took about 2 -3 days for me to sew it
together and 3 cases of Coke. You see we had a 36" wide bolt.
Beam construction.
Using the 10' 2 x 6's measure up about 2" from the bottom and mark. Then
measure 9' up and mark. At the 2" pt. drill a 1.5" hole and at the the
9' pt. drill a 1" dia hole. (be sure to do all 4 beams). The extra foot
between the 9' mark and the end can be carved for decoration.
Ridge pole construction:
Join the two steel pipes together using the coupler. At each end weld in a
1/2" - 13 nut (be careful not to screw up the threads).
Bottom side pole construction.
Take the 10' 2 x 6 and saw lengthwise into two equal pieces. At the
end of each new piece, shave to fit the 1.5" holes in beams.
Assembly.
+---------------------+---
| ---+----------------------+
| | |
| | |
| | |
| | |
| | |
| | |
| | |
+---------------------+--- |
---+----------------------+
Layout the poles on the ground in this fashion. The 4 cross pieces
are the 10' 2x6's, the middle vertical piece is the ridge pole, and the 2
vertical end pieces are the bottom side poles.
Secure the ridge pole to the outer beams using a 1/2 -13 bolt,
fender washer, and lock washer. (One can decorate, or hide the end of the bolt
as they see fit).
Secure the bottom side poles by drilling 1/4" holes through the main
beams through the bottom side poles and then driving a long 1/4" steel rod
into the holes.
Lay the fabric over the frame (it will not fit very well until the
supporting ropes are installed later).
Best erection method (use protection). Have a person stand at each
end of the ridge pole. Then in unison, raise the ridge pole up until the
desired height is reached (we prefer a 10' spread between the bottom side
poles as it gives about a 7 1/2' middle height inside the tent. Prevent main
beam spread using rope secured around the beams underneath the bottom side
poles.
At this point the canvas sags in the middle. To control this, use a
cross bracing of rope on the inside of the tent to hold out the canvas. For
best results, string the rope in a multiple X fashion in the sides. There is
no standard as to how the ropes should be installed, so try out various method
to see what works for you. Pull the excess canvas under the bottom side
poles. Note that the canvas is not set up for tent flaps and one should
consider a way to put them in. Burlap added for flaps works good as a period
looking bug screen and it even works.
To water proof the canvas, try some Thompson's water seal or wood
preservative. This stinks a bit, so be sure to use plenty of ventilation and
space to allow the fabric to dry.
To finish the wood, one could either use the same wood preservative
or use boiled linseed oil and apply on a hot sunny day to really bake the oil
on the wood.
This is a great setup, my cohort and I have set this up in virtually
all situations. The first time was in the dark with lanterns as our light.
It's waterproof, wind proof, and it looks really cool. Later the beams can be
carved to add splendor to your accomplishment. We found almost no
documentation for the inside arrangement and thus we faked it as any good
viking would. So don't be afraid to experiment with the design.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
{ Tom R. Dennis (515) 292 - 0747 / Money, it's a gas. Grab that cash }
{ aka Alric the Sot / with both hands and make a dash. }
{ goobers at iastate.edu / P. Floyd }
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: palmer at cis.ohio-state.edu (sharon ann palmer)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period Tents (Viking Ship Shelters)
Date: 3 Jun 1993 00:10:43 -0400
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
>>Could any one who's made a Viking tent send me details on the dimensions,
>>materials, joinings, waterproofing, door construction, etc. that they
>>used.
This may not be historically accurate, but it looks Ok from the road,
is stable and easy to put up. No ropes needed.
4 12ft 2x6, 5 12 ft poles, 35 yards of fabric at $1.00
Ask around at your local fabric stores, often they will have discount
tables. Locally Hancock Fabrics has $1.00 a yard sales several times
a year. We went to six branches and found little this year. But 2 years
ago, I had been keeping my eyes open and happened on a bolt of heavy cotton.
A little over 20 yards around 40 inches wide (as I recall), cut in three
panels gave a "sail" of roughly 20 ft by 12 feet. If you could
find 60 in wide, you would only need 14 yards. I used felled seams,
like blue jeans, as they are *much* stronger. Like this:
-------------+-+----
----+-+- | the +'s are the thread
| -+-+----
----+-+---------------
I turned the long edges back about 2 in. for strength and to hide the selvage.
Then I put a pocket at the short edges that takes a pole
So you fasten the uprights to the center pole. Still on the ground
drape the tent over the center pole. Slide in the bottom poles.
Now you really need a second person for a minute. You each hold a
leg and push the center up. The fabric stabilizes the whole thing.
I wanted a floor for my tent and that same lucky shopping trip
found 7 yards of a very heavy broken twill 60 in wide.
I cut it in two panels and put a felled seam down the middle and
a pocket on each end that fits in a second set of poles - above
the first. This stuff is so heavy I broke 4 blue jean needles on it.
\ / \ /
\ / \/
-o-----------------------
/ \ \
/ \ \
/ \ \
/ \ \
-o---- -o \-
/| |\ \
-o-| |-o-----------------------
/ |_________| \ \
This is not even close to being to scale the holes at the bottom are
around 7 and 12 inches.
I got around 7 yards of fabric for the doors. I would have used the
same as for the top, but they didnt have enough. It is lighter weight
than the top and lets breezes in nicely. Cut it in half and each in
half on the diagonal. Seam two for the back. I put the tent up to
fit the doors so they would hang right.
I put some velcro as a fastening, but I think I will change it.
So wants to hear velcro rip at the war?
I put a plastic ground cloth down, then the floor and tuck the edges up
under the beams. This keeps it nearly out of sight. And a damp top
doesnt touch the floor.
I havent yet been caught in a real storm, but it shed showers nicely.
I have friends that put plastic under the roof to be safe.
I waterproofed the tent top and boards. The floor and doors didnt
get waterproofed yet, but probably will.
The poles have a hole drilled on each side of the board, the first
year we used a clovis pin, but a friend has promised to forge some.
I also want a shelf across the back. And a rain shelter for cooking.
The inside is roughly 10x9, and held a double bed for us, a single
for our son. Several chests for food and clothes, 3 inkle looms, 2
baskets of spinning fiber I bought, a box for books, more stuff I
bought, 2 bows, 2 quivers, still more stuff I bought.
(Yes, Veni, Vici, Visa) An oriental rug on the floor.
The top is light grey with a narrow white stripe, the doors dark grey.
I will be at Pennsic, somewhere on the flat part, Probably in single
camping because I have arthritis and cant handle the hills.
If you want more details, send me email and I will send you plans.
If you see it stop in and say hi. I am hoping to be there 2 weeks
this year.
Sorry if this has rambled. Sharon Palmer
Ranvaig palmer at cis.ohio-state.edu (until June 14)
From: doconnor at sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: General tent stuff (Re: Tent Construction Info Needed!)
Date: 28 Jun 93 11:17:04
Organization: Intel i960(tm) Architecture
ck290 at cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chandra L. Morgan-Henley) writes:
] I should have said, in my earlier post, that there are 3
] main requirements for a tent I wish to build.
]
] 1. It needs to be tall enough (at least in the center) for me
] to stand up in. I am about 5'6" tall.
]
] 2. It should preferably have no center pole ...
]
] 3. Ideally, it should use no more than the 30 yards of fabric
] I have already purchased. It is possible, however, that I could
] 10 yards or so if need be. Money is very tight, so the tent
] also should not require elaborate/expensive frameworks. I can
] budget about another $20-30 for tent materials
Milady,
I post feeling the topic is of general enough interest.
I fear the frame for a gher (mistakenly called a "yurt" by soft
European city-dwellers) might overtax your present resources.
What might work well for you is a French Arming Pavilion. A geometric
description of this item might be : take a cone, cut it in half
vertically, move the two halves apart and connect them with planes.
The tent floor is shaped like a rectange that has two semi-circles
appended on the ends of it. The door is an openiong in the flat sides
or IS one of the flat sides, held up by poles to make a "porch" awning,
or just entered at the edge.
A frame for it is easy to build : Minimally, you could just use
three poles, one going up to the peak of each semi-cone, and other
connected between those two. OR you can use 5 poles to form
a "swing set" frame, which would provide a completely "clear-span"
structure, easier erection, and better wind reistance. You could
probably even get away with just two poles (one at each end).
The flat sides are easy to sew (I'd suggest using a single peice
for both flat sides so there's no possibility of leaks at the peak).
Leave enough extra length so you can overlap the cones. Sew ties
to the peak of the roof canvas to secure it to the ridge pole.
Sew reinforced loops at the bottoms for stakes, and sew ties
along the side edges to secure them to the end panels.
(Note that I prefer ties and sewn-on loops of webbing to grommets:
I've seen too many grommets pull out of fabric.)
The end semi-cones are made by sewing together triangluar peices.
Don't forget to put "storm flaps" on the bottom of the wall. These are
folded inside the tent to make a say foot-wide edge on the ground the
inside the tent, and your ground tarp goes over this, along with chests
etc. Keeps the wind and rain out.
Such a tent with a 10wx8dx8h foot center area and two 4 foot radius
8 foot high semi-cones at the ends would use a 25'x12' center canvas
(note allowance for overlap) (300 sq.ft.) and the end semi-cones use
50 sq.ft of canvas each, for a total of 400 sq.ft. of canvas. This
is 45 sq.yds of fabric, or 35 yds. of 45" fabric, or 27 yds. of
60" fabric (it's not clear what you mean when you said you had
"30 yards" of fabric.). Since the peices are all rectangles and
triangles, there should be very little waste. If you use the
"swing set" frame, this tent requires 4-12' poles and 1-10' pole.
Using the simpler 3-pole arangment only 2-8' poles and 1-10' pole
are needed.
This tent uses no guy-ropes (you stake the canvas). It's a period
design I'm told. It takes up only 130 sq.ft of ground space (well
under the Pennsic limit of 250 sq.ft. per person). Provides about
as much interior space as a 10x12 room does. During the day
you can lift one side with poles to provide another 80 sq.ft of
covers area, or you can sew a separate 10x12 flap onto one side
of the center canvas to serve as both a "storm door" and fair-weather
porch awning.
Caveat: a friend has a tent like this, he likes it. I have a 16'
diameter psuedo-gher (someday it will be a true gher). Take my
suggestion here and play with them. Note that my description
doesn't attach the end canvas to the side canvas : you might
want to do that, at least on one side of the tent.
N.B. any tent with vertical walls : IMHO, tall walls serve only as better
sails to catch the wind. No wall should ever be more than 78" (6'6")
tall (standard door height: tall people are used to ducking under it).
It's really a pain to hang 7'+ high walls, especially for non-tall people.
My gher has 5' walls and a 10' peak height, and it work great: put
chests around the edge and people can sit on them, plenty of head
room in the center. The shorter walls also make the interior look larger.
And, people have to duck to get through the door, so if they are enemies
they are more vulnerable, and if they are not, they have to bow to
you to enter your tent :-). I mainly went with short walls because that's
what Mongols used, but still, keep all this in mind, eh ?
--
Dennis O'Connor doconnor at sedona.intel.com
Intel i960(R) Microprocessor Division Solely responsible for what I do.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: tbarnes at silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes)
Subject: Re: Painting designs on a Pavillion
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 18:07:45 GMT
In article <CMGKp9.DCH at world.std.com> rmccown at world.std.com (Bob McCown) writes:
>We'd like to decorate our Pavillion for Pennsic
>this year, and are wondering what the best type of paint to
>use for this. Obviously, cloth paint would be the best (and
>the most expensive). The Pavillion is fire retardent beige canvas at t
>the moment.
After a number of years doing small projects and getting paint
on my clothes doing it, I learned that standard craft paint works just
fine for painting on cloth. Later, I learned that standard craft paint
is, essentially, acrylic latex paint. This sort of paint cleans up and
thins with water until it dries. Then it is pretty-well waterproof.
So, when I painted my tent last year, I bought a couple of
gallons of matte acrylic latex interior paint in the colors I wanted. You
can get bright colors in quart containers, but you have to scrounge in
order to find bright colors in gallon containers. (I got mine as a
special mix).
I found that it took about three coats to get good coverage over
the red fabric I was using for my tent. Something that is lighter (like
beige canvas) might take fewer coats of paint. You can cheat by using a
cheap matte white latex paint as a "primer" and then putting your more
expensive bright colors over that.
I used a standard 2" house painters brush to do the thick lines
on my pavillion and then touched up the edges of the lines by outlining
them in black using a 1/2" artists stiff-bristled brush for use with
oils or acrylics.
The project was still messy and time consuming. If you decide to
paint your tent, make a thumbnail sketch of the pattern you want before
you start, and then make templates and stencils of the relevant designs.
Then, when you've got your design worked out, use your stencils and
templates to lay out your design in chalk. THEN start painting. Be
careful, because paint is a bitch to get out of cloth and is very
obvious if you don't get it all out. I tried to cheat by getting a color
of paint that was close to the color of the fabric and using it for
touch-ups but it didn't really work very well.
Lothar
From: ccjoe at showme.missouri.EDU (Joseph Heck)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Painting Pavillions
Date: 11 Mar 1994 14:14:54 -0500
Organization: The Internet
> We'd like to decorate our Pavillion for Pennsic
> this year, and are wondering what the best type of paint to
> use for this. Obviously, cloth paint would be the best (and
> the most expensive). The Pavillion is fire retardent beige canvas at t
> the moment.
Robur,
My lady & I painted our oval pavillion with gothic arches using fabric paint
from 'Dick Blick' - an art store in this town. We bought water-soluble paint
that we heat set with and iron, and it's stood up beautifully and didn't
make things too difficult. We waterproofed the pavillion with 'Thompson's
Waterseal' as well - we had to go over the painted areas a little thoroughly,
but in general it was an amazing effect!
Terras, Shire of the Standing Stones, Calontir
--
joe (314) 882-5000
ccjoe at showme.missouri.edu University of Missouri - Columbia
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: kreyling at lds.loral.com (Ed Kreyling 6966)
Subject: Re: Painting designs on a Pavillion
Organization: Loral Data Systems
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 18:40:06 GMT
In article <CMGKp9.DCH at world.std.com> rmccown at world.std.com (Bob McCown) writes:
>We'd like to decorate our Pavillion for Pennsic
>this year, and are wondering what the best type of paint to
>use for this. Obviously, cloth paint would be the best (and
>the most expensive). The Pavillion is fire retardent beige canvas at t
>the moment.
>
>Robur of Roestoc
Master Sean de Carrikfergus and I have had great luck on everything from banners, to tablecloths, to tents with acrylic paint cut with water. Ironing after painting seems to help when practical but is not imparative. Good luck
Erik.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ed Kreyling | Master Erik of Telemark O.L.,O.P.
kreyling at world.lds.loral.com | Shire of Brineside Moor
Sarasota,Fl. USA | Kingdom of Trimaris, SCA
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: meg at tinhat.stonemarche.org (meg)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: re:painting a pavillion
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 00:58:56 EST
Organization: Stonemarche Network Co-op
Acrylic paint is a good modern medium for this purpose. Be sure the
color you choose are light fast, or they will fade in the sun before the
war is over. Cut the paint with acrylic gloss medium (buy it by the
gallon, it's cheaper that way) to maintain a good flexibility on the
cloth. Do not cut the paint with too much water or else it will run and
bleed into the cloth.
If you wish to use period materials and techniques, ground pigments in a
linseed oil binder will do the job nicely. It will yellow with age,
however, and is prone to cracking. But there is something extraordinarily
wonderful about sleeping in an authentic period pavillion.
Have fun.
Megan
==
In 1994: Linda Anfuso
In the Current Middle Ages: Megan ni Laine de Belle Rive
In the SCA, Inc: sustaining member # 33644
YYY YYY
meg at tinhat.stonemarche.org | YYYYY |
|____n____|
From: darrell.markewitz at ambassador.com (Darrell Markewitz)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Pavillions - CHEAP
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 21:15:36 GMT
Organization: AMBASSADOR BOARD (519) 925-2642 V.32
Having made a few pavillions over the years, may I suggest the
following:
A NORSE 'A' FRAME FOR ABOUT $150 (CDN!)
Make your cover out of unbleached cotton canvus - painters drop sheets.
These are available from paint or large hardware stores. Size about 10 x
12, cost me about $30 each. You need three - two sown together along a
10' seem for the sides, the third cut into one large triangle, 12' at
the base and 10' high, and the remaining two smaller tringles. Big
triangle makes the rear wall., the two small ones the front door.
Frame of 1 x 12" so called 'barn pine' which runs about .75 a ft. Ripp
into two 6" wide planks - you need three - 12' lenghts. (3 pieces for
each end frame. Also three lenghts of 2x4 - cut to 2x3 and either bevel
cut on a table saw or round with a draw knife.
This will produce a close approximation of the tent in the Oseburg ship.
It will be about 11 1/2 by 11 1/2 ft on the base, and stand about 7 1/2
ft inside at the peak.
I can set it up myself in about 5 minutes - and two people can pick it
up and move it arround. It needs no pegs - mine was up in a 60 kph wind
storm and stood up fine.
Sorry this is so brief - but if anyone wants details - or has questions,
just post me!
A happy and WEALTHY viking:
Sylard
.|.
/.\
the WAREHAM FORGE
Hamlet of Wareham
RR #2, Proton Stn
Ont, CDN - N0C 1L0
(519) 923- 9219
wareham.forge at ambassador.com
From: Kelly.Coco at mvs.udel.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Tents, walls, encampments, etc......
Date: 2 Dec 1994 11:03:07 -0500
Organization: The Internet
Steiner sends Greetings unto the Rialto!
A couple of points from my FWIW file;
Having started out my medieval experience with a (ugh!) dome tent, I
quickly found a way to make it less of a visual eyesore (in my own
eyes that is!) Easiest and cheapest would be to erect a bedsheet "A"
frame tent *over* the dome tent. Noone can see it, the sheets don't
need to be water proofed and there is little additional burden to haul.
Eventually I got a large heavy duty painters canvas drop cloth, water-
proofed it and hung it on a line A-frame stlye. I *still* use it and
the various molds and mildews that have come to reside in it have given
it a nice look. I do use a plastic tarp underneath, but noone can see it.
If you're broke, and who has'nt been, become a *good* scrounge, Most of
what you will need can be found cheaply, or free!
The chronicles of Joinville, that of St Louis, I believe in Ch. 10 has
a wondrous description of the Sultans encampment. It is very much worth
the few minutes it take to read for those unfamiliar with the work.
The camp is described as being surrounded in walls of blue fabric, the
same material as the pavillions are made of as well. Towers are described
as made of poles and again covered in blue so that from the outside of
the camp all one sees is a jumble of blue shapes. The good sultan even
had a pavillion in the Med itself for bathing and a covered walkway, you
guessed it, in blue, leading down to it. In many ways this is what we do
at Pennsic albeit with more varied and personnal designs.Aside from the
obvious privacy obtained, our *anachronisms* are out of sight, everything
*looks* more medieval and the atmosphere is enhanced. Walls. Gotta lov'em!
Vale,
Steiner
(Who always dreams of a more period camp)
From: Bob.Upson at f333.n142.z1.fidonet.org (Bob Upson)
Date: 04 Dec 94 13:04:00 -0500
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Misconceptions about pavillions
X-Mail-Agent: GIGO+ sn 28 at blkcat vsn 0.99 pl1
Organization: Fidonet: The Dragons' Lair * 203/621-3461 * HST 14.4 V42bis
>>I love camping events, but I *cannot* and will not in the foreseable
>>future be able to afford a period camping pavilion. Not only would I
>>have to buy-make it, I would need to buy-rent a *much* bigger car to
>>get it to events. I don't see being able to fit a pavilion into a
>>Nissan Sentra! :)
> For several years I transported an 8x10 pavillion (longest pole 8.5')
> in a Mazda 323. It can be done.
I can second that sentiment!
When my wife and I bought our first home together, it was a 15' x 24' marquee
style pavillion (18' x 27' at ground level -- we sublet to assorted varlets
<g>). The amazing thing about this beast is that it *doesn't* take up a lot
of space. Folded up it's slightly larger than the venerable 10' x 14' Hillary
cabin tent I retired two years ago. The only significant increase in space
consumption is the inclusion of perimeter poles (30 of them). They aren't
period, but they reduce the tent's footprint for space limited camping (aka
Pennsic).
Without the perimeter poles (it can be set up either way), there's just the
ridgepole and uprights. They're large and ride either in my Pennsic war
wagon (utility trailer) or on the roof rack, but then our tent is a bit on
the huge side... Round pavillions don't have to have the perimeter poles
either and don't need a ridgepole. They can be had at prices comparable to a
high quality mundane tent and they look marvelous.
The real only drawback to period tentage I've come across is that they
require *scrupulous* care in storage. Unlike nylon, canvas has little
tolerance to being stored damp. But treated carefully, canvas will last for
years.
Macsen
---------
Fidonet: Bob Upson 1:142/333
Internet: Bob.Upson at f333.n142.z1.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: gl8f at fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Greg Lindahl)
Subject: Re: Virgin Pennsic-goer
Organization: Department of Astronomy, University of Virginia
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 19:50:52 GMT
In article <3lsp07$41q at mailer.fsu.edu>,
Rob Maxwell <maxwell at huey.fsu.edu> wrote:
> but what do y'all do for low budget period outings?
I use an A-frame white canvas tent sold by many Civil War outfitters.
They're essentially identical to Elizabethan A-frames. Mine cost $110;
it's 6' tall, 9' deep, 8.5' wide on the ground, and I only needed to
add 3 pieces of wood.
Many people pay much more than this for modern tents, without
realizing that some period tents are quite inexpensive.
From: wildgoose at gateway.ecn.com (Keith Cunningham)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: celtic tent designs
Date: 5 Jun 1995 19:51:06 -0700
Organization: West Coast Computer Products
Thanks for writing back. it wasn't your fault the server at this end was
acting up last week.
Here goes. Roman style wall tents are period and were used for
everything from the 1st Century BC thru the American Civil War. They are
available and fairly cheap to make or buy.
A Viking/Norman wedge tent was used by everybody that bordered on the
north sea. They are very easy to make and use. I reccommend one that is
11 feet long [2panels of canvas sewed with an overlap]. The sides should
be 7 feet 9 inches by 7 feet 9 inches by 7 feet 9 inches. An equalateral
[sic] triangle that way all of your poles are the same size. Some people
say to buy closet poles for the long [11 foot] span. I rec that you buy
12 foot 2x4 and then shave the ends down round. These are more expensive
at first but outlast closet poles are more period and are stronger. This
design gives lots of space, very airy, has hanging bar inside, and if
need by the entire tent can be picked up and moved by 4 people[without
disassembly]. 2 people can set the tent up in 10 minutes. The first one
I ever built was set up by two women in the dark, without any directions
or training after a 300 mile drive in 30 minutes.
If you have anymore questions write to me here.
Cain Macrob MhicMiron Connyhaim of Connyhaim.
Keith Cunningham
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: doug_brunner at hp-corvallis.om.hp.com (Doug Brunner)
Subject: Re: period tent making ... help!
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 07:02:12 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard Inkjet Comp. Div.
Guess it depends on what you want. We just finished our new pavillion. It's
an octagon, with 7 foot sides. It's 17 feet across and 11.5 feet tall. We made it
in 5 major sections. Two side panels covering 3 sections each, two panels
covering one section and the roof. The two single panels are red. We use these
as doors. The rest is natural color. We're going to install a fringe around the
bottom. We've installed a line of 16" tall dags, all the way around it. I still have
to make a penant pole for the center bar. The frame is 1 3/8" aluminum tubing.
I still have to prime and paint them. Probably something kind of woody. We also
found, over the weekend at Kriegstriber, that it's fairly water tight. This is
great considering we haven't treated the roof, yet.
Yes, we're very, very happy with it. But, after all of the work, we figured we
saved about $400. I hope we don't have to do this again. At least not in the
near future.
Bruno vonBrunner
Woods Crafter/Merchant
An Tir
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: DDFr at Midway.UChicago.edu (David Friedman)
Subject: Re: period tent making ... help!
Organization: University of Chicago Law School
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 20:53:14 GMT
There is an article on making a pavilion in the _Miscellany_, which is on
the web at http://fermi.clas.virginia.edu/~gl8f/cariadoc/miscellany.html.
If I were rewriting it now, I would probably replace the frame of dowels
from which the walls are hung with something simpler, perhaps a rope sewn
inside the roof near the edge for the ropes to attach to with the walls
buttoned on (one of our people did one along those lines). Countess
Susannah Griffen of Calontir seems to know more about period tent making
than anyone else, but I do not know if she has EMail access.
--
David/Cariadoc
DDFr at Midway.UChicago.Edu
From: mcs at unlinfo.unl.edu (M Straatmann)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period Pavilions
Date: 19 Jun 1995 20:04:39 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln
Greetings and abasement from Mikhail Nikolaevich
John-H (jahugi at xmission.xmission.com) wrote:
: My Lady and I are in pusuit of purchasing a period pavilion. We are
: presently comparing between Tentmasters and Panther. We are looking at a
: 13X18 Oval Marquis. I am posting this in request for recommendations
: either good or bad for either of the above tent makers.
: Tentmasters does not do colour striping, something we have always thought
: we wanted. We are also asking anyone if they have had any problems with
: a colour striped pavilion.
: We are sure that there are owners of both styles of pavilions upon the
: Rialto, so we are putting these companies to the test here. I don't
: believe this information would be useful to anyone else so you may
: respond to us directly at jahugi at xmission.com, or if you think anyone
: else could use this information we will read it off the Rialto.
...
: Christian & Ethereal Trewren of Cornwall
: Shire of Cote du Ciel, Principality of Artemesia, Kingdom of Atenveldt
: <jahugi at xmission.com>
If I am remembering the tents you have mentioned, I am under the
impression that these have shade type things attached to the walls.
If this is the case, then I can reasonably assert that these are not
"period pavilions". The only documentation that I have ever seen has
been for Turkey or Persia after about 1560, and then it is iffy.
This info was the result of a research competition between a
tent-making/research laurel, her household, and several else of us.
BTW, if anyone has documentation to the contrary, I would LOVE to have
it. ;-)
As for colored striped tents. There is no real difference in the
tents. Stay away from purple for its UV properties.
The fire retardant and mildew resistance of some of the canvases are
nice, but regular cotton sportswear works just fine. The colored
tents are far more period than the plain white ones.
Sorry to sound grumpy, but the plain white ugliness that most of these
people try to sell as medieval tents belong more at a rendevous than a
medieval tournament.
I have made quite a few of these things, and all you need is a decent
sewing machine, about 30-40 yds of fabric, lots o'needles, and some
time with a little bit of creativity. Anyone who can sew a straight
line and can do simple geometry (I mean pocket calculator simple, if I
can do it, anyone can!), can build a good looking period tent. The
fabric can often be purchased on sale for 1-2 dollars a yard.
In addition, the more interior support structure (wall poles, etc) a
tent has, the more likely it is that it is a non-period structure.
Again, many of the pre-purchased have unnecessary structures in them.
If anyone has questions, comments, etc, please let me know. I have
nothing against these businesses. I am sure that they build good
tents, however, they do not build good medieval recreations of tents.
Just my two cents.
Mikhail Nikolaevich, Calontir
From: mjc at telerama.lm.com (Monica Cellio)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Viking Tents (was SCA in NOT authentic blah blah)
Date: 28 Jun 1995 13:47:32 -0400
Organization: Telerama Public Access Internet, Pittsburgh, PA USA
Bronach asks about the cost of building a Viking tent, and thinks it's
higher than the price of her modern tent.
I just bought some canvas (for a fly) as part of a group order. The price
came to $2.50 a yard (including share of shipping) for flame-resistent
10oz (maybe 12oz, but I think 10oz) canvas, 58" wide. If you were to use
this to make a tent a little under 10' long and 10' tall, it would take
approximately 15-20 yards of this fabric. That would be up to $50 for
fabric. The lumber is probably another $30-40 (you'd need about 40' of
2x6 and then whatever your four posts are made of). And you need a little
rope. All in all, I'd think you could do it for under $100 if you're building
it yourself. That's comparable with small modern tents, but if you compare
to tents with the same amount of space, I don't think a mundane tent will
beat the Viking tent on cost.
Ellisif
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/mjc/www/ellisif.html
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: DDFr at Midway.UChicago.edu (David Friedman)
Subject: Re: Viking Tents (was SCA in NOT authentic blah blah)
Organization: University of Chicago Law School
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 05:36:29 GMT
> I would like to ask someone to justify the statement
> that a Viking Tent is cheaper than a modern tent. I am not asking
> for this to be argumentative or prove some point, I am asking
> because I would lvoe to make one, and all of my estimates so far
> have been very far out of budget, and beyonf the price of the
> modern tent I currently own by at least 2 times.
...
> Bronach
Wilhelm the Smith provided one answer, but it was for a much better (and
probably more labor and skill intensive, although not more expensive)
viking tent than I was thinking of.
For a 6x6x8' long Viking tent, which is a reasonable size for one person,
you need about two six yard lengths of cloth at least 48" wide plus another
4 yards for the doors, for a total of 16 yards. With reasonable fabric
sources, you should be able to get something reasonably strong that looks
about right (cotton canvas if you are lucky) for $2/yard or so. That
assumes you are willing to look for specials, etc., and it probably does
not work if you are somewhere where you can only reach one fabric store or
are in a hurry. That comes to $32. I think our local record (for a larger
tent than that) is about $8, but that was using a very inexpensive source
of material.
You will also need 6 1x4's about 10' long plus three "closet pole" dowels
about 9' long for the frame. I am afraid I have forgotten the lumber store
price for those, but I don't think it is all that high. So the total should
be around $50. You can do much better than that if you are good at
scrounging scrap lumber, finding deals on cloth, etc., and much worse if
you end up having to buy $8/yard canvas (although that is usually 60"), but
I think the figure I cite should be about normal for someone willing to
take some trouble to hold down cost.
I don't have a catalog from a good source for inexpensive tents; Beans,
which is surely not the least expensive place, lists nothing below $130. I
would guess that $50 is about right for a small pop tent from an
reasonably inexpensive source, but perhaps someone with more recent
experience in that market can correct me.
For two people, you would want to scale up to about 8x8x8, raising your
cost to about $65.
--
DDFr at Midway.UChicago.Edu
From: CHRISTINE_McGLOTHLIN at sagepub.COM (CHRISTINE_McGLOTHLIN)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Cost-effective & compact Pavilions
Date: 28 Jun 1995 19:07:26 -0400
Organization: The Internet
Stefan MacMorrow ap Rhovannon <scj427 at aol.com> writes:
> Ok, big question time. Is there such a thing as a period tent that
> is light enough and compact enough to pack on a motorcycle? I think
> I have an idea for a "period looking" type but I need to find a
> cargo parachute for the material.
It probably depends on where you intend to use your pavilion. The
light materials I can come up with (non-ripstop nylon) are not very
warm. This might work for a day shade at an event, but probably
wouldn't work well at war. Compact materials could include cotton,
silk, etc. It's poles that might be the problem.
I saw a "mini-yurt" once done with 2' or 3' poles for the outer walls,
and a 5' or 6' center-pole. You might be able to do this with the
centerpole collapsing into 2 or 3 pieces with joints to secure them
when standing. Of course, the best yurts have no center pole, but I
have a hard time picturing the roof piece going on a motorcycle.
If you're not looking for compact, but cost-effective and more
"period" looking, you could try a variation of our family's day shade.
Our day shade is a "Thrift Store" product -- two white king size
sheets at $0.50 each, sewn together to make a long rectangle; four 6'
redwood poles from the nursery at $0.40 each, and 2 8' redwood poles
at $0.65 each, a role of twine at $1.00, and 10 large tent stakes at $0.50
ea. The white cotton shades us well, and we use a large "persian" rug
on the grass underneath, again thrift store or yard sale, ours was a
find at $30 and is the length and width of the two king-size sheets
end-to-end. Sometimes we bring our 5 sheepskins to lounge around on
(& a number of large pillows), a yard sale bargin at $35 for 4 skins
(the 5th was $1 at an SCA sale once). No walls, and only gale-force
winds snapped the twine once. We'll probably go buy "real" rope soon.
I agree with the people who have been discussing the "Viking A-Frame
suggestion for 16th C. Italians" ... this should be recommended as an
interim solution for folks who want to build *anything*. But there
are cheap ways to build any pavilion. One of the best cost-cutters is
using painter's-cloth for the canvas. Very large pieces for very
little cost. Careful if you want to dye them -- many have been
treated to be water-resistant, so they might turn a pastel shade
first. Ask me sometime about the "pansy-pink Viking A-frame" story...
--
Eilidh Swann of Strathlachlan ### Darach Shire, Caid
Christine (Cat) McGlothlin ### Production Editor, Journals
Cat_McGlothlin at SAGEPUB.COM # Sage Publications, Inc.
From: hendle1 at aol.com (Hendle 1)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Viking Tents (was SCA in NOT authentic blah blah)
Date: 3 Jul 1995 11:34:26 -0400
Having built my first Viking tent in 1991 and used it through many events,
even hosting large numbers of mordern tent owners during thunderstorms, I
will attest to the worth of a period pavilion of almost any kind. I am on
my third set of poles more because I love doing the dragon heads and
inventing new ways to make such a large Viking tent and poles break down
for shipping and storage. And, also very important, when the sun comes up
in the morning my tent doesn't heat up till nearly midday, not mid
morning!
Aelfric of Sarisberie, AoA
From: hendle1 at aol.com (Hendle 1)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: (those darn )viking tents
Date: 5 Jul 1995 07:34:57 -0400
A wedge tent is a tent set up with two poles at the ends with just the
canvas itself and two ropes supporting it. A Viking tent utilizes a
ridgepole, two angled supports at each end, usually topped by carved
dragonheads, a support across the entrances front and back connecting the
foot of each of the angled supports and a support running on each side
from the front foot to the back. The whole point of the Viking tents,
beyond the supposed beginnings as a sail and five oars, was that it could
be lifted as a complete unit from onboard to shore and back again without
disassembly. And that is one of the advantages of it in our camping
experience today...and unlike a dome tent it doesn't roll away in a big
gust.
From: ansteorra at eden.com (7/7/95)
To: ansteorra at eden.com
RE>Pavilions
There are several types of "beach pavilion" on the market. The
free standing, square type, with a center peak are in fact not
that different from pavilions used in period (save the lack of a
center pole).
The center pole has been eliminated from modern pavilions because
it is inconvenient.
My personal favorite of these free standing type pavilions is the
Academy Broadway (not affiliated with the Academy Sporting Goods
chain) model 292. This model retails at discount stores for about
$110 (lower on sale), and has a waterproof shell. The shell is
made of a plastic that is not shiny, and is quite durable. The
frame is steel.
If the waterproof plastic offends you, you may sew a fabric cover
that will fit the frame (HL Kaitlyn McKenna made one with sides,
that worked very well).
I do not think it likely that pavilions in period had metal poles.
I am *not* willing to state, positively that they did not. Metal
poles can be painted/coated/covered if they bother you.
The major fault of these free standing "beach pavilions" is that
*we* know what they are. Transported back in time, they would
only draw attention by virtue of their clever frames, and the
cunning fabric that shed water.
If you want a fabric pavilion, and haven't hundreds to spend, then
I recommend the following approach.
Most large hardware stores (especially Ace hardware), sell canvas
"drop cloths" for about $40 for a 12' x 15' piece. You needn't
sew anything at all (though I do recommend gluing & sewing
reinforcing on the grommet areas).
The poles can be 2 x 2 if square is acceptable, or if you need
round poles, I recommend at least 1-5/8" doweling (the standard
1-3/8" is a bit too weak). The larger size doweling may require a
bit of searching.
If you want something more colorful, you may add pennants/dagging
to taste.
This design has a lot of potential for innovation, be creative
(it's our middle name).
-Bran
langj at mail.syntron.com
From: ansteorra at eden.com (7/6/95)
RE>pavilions
>> Further--gee, I
>>wonder if there is some way we could ban those gawd-awful aluminum frame
>>beach pavillions? For a little work and a lot less money one can have a
>>period tourney shade-pavillion.
>
>last I checked Period Pavilions were orders of magnatude more expensive than
>the beach ones, are an utter headache and 3/4 to haul around (impossible if
>you don;t have a truck), and are a royal pain to store.
>
>-michael
Actually, we made a 14' high, 18x18 pavillion with sides for less than
$300.00 and it packs into two Air Force parachute bags, plus poles. What I
am talking about is a 10x10 shade pavilion without sides, just for the
listfield. Those damn beach things run around $190.00. We have samples
and everything from a place in Florida called Trident which carries all
sorts of canvas, fireproof, waterproof, water resilient, in a wide range of
colors, plus grommets and grommet cutter/setters. If 2 or 3 people get
together and order a bolt or two, it's about $2.30/yd. 2x2 poles are a
couple of bucks and sisal rope to make your ropes is dirt cheap. Large
spikes (they look like great big 10-penny nails) with washers on them make
great stakes. a regular household machine sews the canvas just fine (it's
a little tougher if you order the waterproof stuff, but waterproofing a
small list-side pavilion is not a big deal). If anyone is interested, I
will ask my lord, Sir Conor, if he would teach a class in pavilion making
at A&S. A list-side pavilion like that would take up hardly any room at
all and the poles can be made to break down. It is really worth the little
extra effort to keep those butt-ugly pavilions off the field--keep 'em at
your camp if you want.
Catherine
Nan Bradford-Reid
The Department of English
The University of Texas
512-471-4991
n.b-reid at mail.utexas.edu
From: tariqyazid at aol.com (TARIQYAZID)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: How can I build a pavillion? -any help available?
Date: 8 Aug 1995 21:13:54 -0400
Medieval Miscellanea publishes a "Period Pavilions" Period Plans manual
that contains several different patterns. My wife and I made a 10x20
pavilion for Pennsic based on the instructions here. Their address:
Medieval Miscellanea
6530 Spring Valley Dr
Alexandria, VA 22312
While the manual is a good starting point, it helps to have a thorough
knowledge of sewing to "fill in the gaps" in the instructions. Also, the
ability to improvise as needed will come in handy as well. Our pavilion
uses a steel conduit frame, which was bent and mangled when high winds
caught it before it could be lashed down. It's in the process of being
reworked using 4 inch PVC pipe. Also, be patient, and don't rush. Sewing
your own pavilion is a huge project, and it's better to take a break for a
few days when things don't seem to be working as planned than pressing on
and finding out the canvas was cut or sewn wrong or it doesn't fit the
frame.
Good luck!
Tariq Yazid
From: brettwi at ix.netcom.com (Brett Williams )
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: How can I build a pavillion? -any help available?
Date: 9 Aug 1995 16:59:46 GMT
In <40924i$nhg at newsbf02.news.aol.com> tariqyazid at aol.com (TARIQYAZID)
writes:
>Medieval Miscellanea publishes a "Period Pavilions" Period Plans manual
>that contains several different patterns. My wife and I made a 10x20
>pavilion for Pennsic based on the instructions here. Their address:
My lord and I built the large rectangular pavilion from the Medieval
Miscellanea plans, with one revision-- as my lord husband is 6'2", we
adjusted the height so he could walk in without either stooping or
whacking his head against the frame. Our pavilion's frame is made of
2" wood doweling; my father-in-law carefully welded pipe joints for
joint sleeves. The cover was 62 yards of rust colored cotton canvas
duck, bought wholesale in the Los Angeles Garment District. The sewing,
my responsibility, involved some careful calculation due to my
preference for lapped seams, but it went without a hitch.
It worked like a charm. The wood frame is, admittedly, heavy and bulky
to transport, however, it stood up to 40 mph wind gusts one Estrella
without anything more annoying than a little bit of canvas flapping.
We staked each corner pole with a pair of ropes and also staked the
canvas down around the bottom edge to prevent the fabric from creeping
up the poles in the wind. However, this is not the sort of pavilion
I'd casually take to an event as it's just about as large as our Caidan
Royal pavilion....
Someday I'll paint the canvas and waterproof it! :)
ciorstan macAmhlaidh, CHA, AoA
From: gwydion at afonlyn.midrealm.org
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Norse Tents
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 96 10:13:35 EST
Organization: Shire of Afonlyn, Midrealm
leifthoreson at usa.pipeline.com(Leif Thoreson) writes:
>...
>Do any of you have planes for a Norse Long tent, or any other
>tent paterns ?
...
>Leif Thoruson
Plans for a Saxon Geteld can be found here:
http://blah.bsuvc.bsu.edu/nfps_geteld
--
Matt Stum Ball State University
gwydion at afonlyn.midrealm.org Muncie, IN USA
From: "Maureen Martinez" <Maureen_Martinez at ccmail.us.dell.com>
To: ansteorra at eden.com
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 96 15:31:31 CST
Subject: Medivial Pavilions- LONG
Gordon asks:
I have been researching the subject of medivial pavilions to prepare to
design an build one of my own. So far I seem to find details on round
pavilions, square pavilions, and rectangular pavilions. But I was thinking
of making an octangonal pavilion. So are octagonal pavilions period?
Should I build one any way? Would it realy matter? (except to the authenticity
police?)I mean it's not that hard to convert an octagonal design into a round
design.
Other questions: I have seen designs that use a center pole and designs
that use a frame. Can anyone relate experiences that would indicate that
one method is prefered over the other?
Of course any other input is apprieciated.
From Jenny Winslow:
If you look closely at many of the illustrations that show "round"
pavilions, they often have many poles and ropes. Using multiple poles in a
'circular' pattern usually indicates that you have a x-sided pavilion
(8-sided, 10-sided, etc). I know of no way to use multiple poles to
support a truly round design.
I have seen two "round pavilions" in real life. Both of these used a rigid
ring to support the walls. The only pole used was the center pole. The
walls were supported at the top by the ring, and pulled out at the bottom
by stakes. Making a "sided" pavilion, eliminates the need for the support
ring, and your walls are supported by the poles at the top and stakes at
the bottom. Note that both of the round pavilions I saw were small in
floor area. They seemed to be limited by the design of the supporting
ring.
I suspect that often artists found it easier to illustrate "sided"
pavilions as round. (or maybe the pavilions had many more sides that 8
making them look even more round).
I believe that either round or octagonal could have been possible in
period. In real life, I believe the octagonal design to be easier to
implement.
Generic Pavilion Suggestions - (regardless of design)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Think HARD about the setup and take down. Make this as easy as
possible. If it takes you three hours to set up your pavilion, you are
less likely to want to use it.
2. Keep pole length manageable. Our longest pole length is 8 foot. For
the longer pole requirements, we use sections poles that are put together
using a metal sleeve. (make sure the sleeve is long enough to support the
joint well). It will make transport much easier.
3. Think about the advantages of attached walls versus walls that are
separate. (Separate walls may be more versatile and easier to clean, but
usually require more setup time.) Everyone seems to have their own
preference here.
4. If you do go with detachable walls, make sure there is LOTS of overlap
at the top where your dagging is. (I recommend at least 6 inches). You
will thank yourself on that windy, rainy night when the rain does NOT blow
into your pavilion.
5. Use pretreated canvas!! You cannot match the waterproofing of a
pretreated canvas, no matter how much Thompson's waterseal you use. (Also,
remember waterproofed canvas is more flammable, so do be careful)
There are a few mail-order sources for different types of canvas if you
find your local fabric store too pricey.
6. Flare the walls of your pavilion, regardless of the design. If you are
making a square or rectangular design, you will have to 'miter' the corners
(i.e., add a triangular section) to allow for the flared walls. What this
means is that if your pavilion is 12 x 12 (like one of ours), your
effective floor section is, say, 16 x 16 (flaring 2 feet per side). This
will give you more usable area, and keep the rain off a little better.
REMEMBER TO INCLUDE THE ADDED LENGTH WHEN CALCULATING YOUR WALL LENGTHS!!
(A little trigonometry never hurt anyone!)
7. Reinforce the grommet holes with added layers of canvas or even leather
sewn down. This gives the grommet more to hold onto. Sewing down a small
cross section for the grommet location also distributes the loading on the
grommet.
8. Use overlapping seams for your construction. (like on your blue jeans).
It sounds like a lot of work, but it is worth it.
You will probably spend several hundred dollars before and many hours on
this before you are through. Do it right, and you will have a pavilion
that will serve you well for years.
Umm...I guess that's enough babbling for now.
If you have additional questions, drop me a line at
Maureen_Martinez at us.dell.com.
Good luck!
Jenny Winslow
MKA Maureen Martinez
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: lindahl at deshaw.com (Greg Lindahl)
Subject: Re: Pavillions
Organization: D. E. Shaw & Co.
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 03:30:04 GMT
In article <4rcgsu$f91 at newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
DeeWolff <deewolff at aol.com> wrote:
>We too own a Panther tent . We have had it for one year and still sing
>their praises. They are the least expensive
Actually, for A-frames and the "civil war officer's tent" style, there
are many Civil War outfitters which sell them for much less than
Panthers. A-frames are good for a variety of periods and I've seen a
few of the (bigger) officer's tents in paintings/woodcuts of
Elizabethan encampments. It's a shame nobody has such economies of
scale for, say, oval pavillions. Sigh.
Gregory Blount
From: drgnlair at nai.net (Bob Upson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Mundane vs. Period Pavilions
Date: 2 Aug 1996 20:12:33 GMT
Organization: The Dragons' Lair www/BBS
In article <4ttjjq$n7r at panix2.panix.com>, dpeters at panix.com (D. Peters) says:
>I know people that swear by their medieval-on-the-outside tents with
>internal skeletons, and others that swear by perimeter poles. I
>swear by the Calontiri method, myself....If you're going to
>Pennsic this year, do the Parade of Homes: walk around the site,
>and if you see a pavilion you like, ask the camp if the owner is
>about, and ask the owner (if he's willing) any question you can
>think of about how his tent works. Most people will be happy to
>explain or offer advice if they've got the time.
Although it's agreed that perimeter poles aren't period, we decided
to order them with our pavillion anyway because of events like Pennsic
where space is at a premium. Using the perimeter poles our pavillion
takes up very little space that isn't usable tentage. Set up *without*
them (as can be done when space isn't a problem), the tent's footprint
more than doubles and creates a spider's web of trip hazards all around.
'Center poles only' is more period, but using perimeter poles is a mild
concession I strongly recommend for practical (and courtesy) reasons.
Macsen
From: Kirk Poore <kirkpoor at basenet.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Mundane vs. Period Pavilions
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 22:26:24 -0700
Bob Upson wrote:
> Although it's agreed that perimeter poles aren't period, we decided
> to order them with our pavillion anyway because of events like Pennsic
> where space is at a premium. Using the perimeter poles our pavillion
> takes up very little space that isn't usable tentage. Set up *without*
> them (as can be done when space isn't a problem), the tent's footprint
> more than doubles and creates a spider's web of trip hazards all around.
>
> 'Center poles only' is more period, but using perimeter poles is a mild
> concession I strongly recommend for practical (and courtesy) reasons.
>
> Macsen
My wife and I have put together a fan-shaped "back porch" by sewing a
separate tent extension which drapes over five ropes of our single-pole
pavilion. It attaches to the rope attachment points, and has loops on
the lower edge to hold it down. It also has triangular end sections to
enclose the porch. We use it to store rain-insensitive items such as
coolers and blue Rubbermaid tubs. We also store other stuff there
(wagon, armor,etc.), but cover them with a tarp when rain threatens. We
can keep the back of the tent open except when it is actually raining,
and the tent seems much larger.
Kirk FitzDavid
From: sbloch at adl15.adelphi.edu (Stephen Bloch)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Mundane vs. Period Pavilions
Date: 3 Aug 1996 18:07:37 GMT
Organization: Adelphi University, Garden City, NY
sthomas728 at aol.com (SThomas728) wrote:
>>a period tent has one center pole and only perimeter poles.
William Dalton <wdalt at wam.umd.edu> replied:
>Actually several of my friends have period pavilions with no perimeter poles.
>The tents have one or two center poles, depending on the size of tent.
>From the center poles, spokes hold the tent wall at a height of about 6'.
>(looks like half a wagon wheel laid on its side)
>On the outside of the tent ropes run from the spokes down to stakes in the
>ground and the bottom of the tent fabric is also staked down.
Or you can do without the spokes. The pavilion we built over the past
few months, and which we put up for the first time last weekend, has two
center poles, a ridge pole (which I _think_ we could have done without),
a gazillion stakes, and no other rigid parts. The guy lines run through
channels in the roof, out at the shoulder, and straight out to stakes in
the ground. This is Version 2: the pavilion we built two years ago with
one center pole proved too small.
Having few long, unwieldy, heavy parts makes it possible to carry a
good-sized pavilion and the other necessities for a week at Pennsic
in a compact car.
mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib
Stephen Bloch
sbloch at panther.adelphi.edu
http://www.adelphi.edu/~sbloch/
Math/CS Dept, Adelphi University
From: Nils K Hammer <nh0g+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period Tents
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 20:16:40 -0400
Organization: Computer Science Department, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
I made my own tent for pennsic this year and was quite content with it.
It was less than 10 feet square, and had the so-called "viking tent"
sloping walls. I understand the pride of owning a magnificent pavillion,
but what with pennsic land-grab not always providing much space, some of
them seem awfully large. I would like to remind people planning a period
pavilion that when you have a bed to shove stuff under it can practically
double your usefull space. I had more space than I knew what to do with,
except for post-battle mess time, when things were strewn about over
and under the furniture.
You may want to do as I did. With a special deal my cost for the 20
yards of 59" material was $58, plus about $5 for rope, a few dollars for
closure straps, and almost none for the 5 pieces of scrounged 2x4 and
the re-bar tent pegs.
I have to admit the design-it-yourself-perfectionist headache could be
considered a non-trivial expense.
Of course if you need to store several elizabethan gowns space efficiency
will be hopeless.
I must be an efficiency geek. The tent I used for the previous 15
pennsics was about the size of one gown by itself, (7' hex)and the
one for pennsic 9 fit into my shirt pocket when folded properly.
Nils K. Hammer
nh0g at andrew.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: lindahl at deshaw.com (Greg Lindahl)
Subject: Re: wall tents
Organization: D. E. Shaw & Co.
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 22:39:36 GMT
In article <6c6_9610080600 at magsystems.com>,
SYBELLA <SYBELLA at f77.n377.z1.magsystems.com> wrote:
>LI>>I've pointed this out before, but it probably bears repeating: canvas wall
>LI>>tents come in the 10x12 size-range and are only $200 (not including
>LI>>poles) from civil war outfitters. So you can do it for much less than a
>LI>>Panther, if your finances are tight.
>LI>>Gregory Blount
>
>true, but that is without the polls, stakes, ground cloth, and all the
>other necessities. I have been pricing both since last january, and
>to get into a 10x12 wall tent will run me not much less than a panther
>pavilion of the same size...and that wall tent, is it Sunforger,
>waterproor/flameproof or plain old canvas?
I paid around $35 for poles, ropes, and stakes. The total cost was
still much less than a Panther of the same size. The canvas was
water/flameproof.
Gregory Blount
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: lindahl at deshaw.com (Greg Lindahl)
Subject: Re: wall tents
Organization: D. E. Shaw & Co.
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 22:41:34 GMT
David M. Razler <david.razler at worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>Question: Is a wall tent any more period than an Equinox dome? OK, the
>material is closer to period but:
>
>Did anyone in period use a tent remotely shaped like an Amer Civ War wall
>tent? I *think* (repeat, *think*) the answer is no.
Fair question. If you look at pictures of Elizabethan military
encampments, you'll see a 80% A-frames, 15%+ "medieval pavillions"
(you know, the round/oval things with non-straight walls), and less
than 5% wall tents, which look exactly like the ACW things.
So the Elizabethan camp on the lake has too many of them, but they are
period.
Gregory Blount
From: odlin at reed.edu (Iain Odlin)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: wall tents
Date: 10 Oct 1996 05:59:16 GMT
arborimg <arborimg at mail.ic.net> wrote:
>Sheldon Lobel wrote:
>> (snip)
>> The tents which I thought were used during the US Civil War are virtually
>> identical to Roman tents.
>&n