tent-ps-msg

tent-ps-msg – 8/20/05

Pavilion poles, stakes and ropes.

************************************************************************

NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,

Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous

Stefan at florilegium.org

************************************************************************

Some messages in this file were submitted to me by others.

E.B. - Elizabeth Braidwood, An Tir

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: tbarnes at silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes)

Subject: Re: Pavillions

Organization: Indiana University

Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1993 18:40:27 GMT

Arval complained about not having a vehicle adapted for transporting

tent poles internally.

I have designed my incipient tent to have poles that can be

broken down for transport in my car or are short enough that they don't

need to be broken down.

Really, the side poles of a pavillion only need to be about 5"

high. This has advantages other than transportability, the lower the

side poles, the less of a "sail" you have and the less likely wind is to

get UNDER the sides of the tent and turn the roof of the tent into an

airfoil. (This is a common problem with dining flies in windy areas,

like the serengetti at Pennsic.) Another advantage is that it makes it

easier to adjust/futz with the guy lines and side poles of the tent.

Cariadoc has a very nice pavillion which has a frame that can

broken down into duffel bags. It stands about 5' high at the side (or a

bit less). Of course, his Grace is not greatly discomfited by having to

stoop to go through low doorways...:) :).

Lothar \|/

From: folo at prairienet.org (F.L. Watkins)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Got my period tent; Question about poles

Date: 23 Jul 1994 07:00:47 GMT

Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

I now have a period tent. My problem: There is no possible way I can

transport 15 foot poles, and the pole "instructions" that came with the

tent says nothing about how to 'section' them. So, I ask anyone who has

dealt with this problem: How'd you go about dealing with turning long poles

into shorter, easier to carry poles without much loss of strength...?

Thanks,

--------------------------- Iain Odlin, odlin at reed.edu -------------------------

There are two possible ways to section your tent poles. The first

is a method used by Tommy Langenfeld, who attached a hinge to the

one side and a locking mechanism to the other, so that the poles

fold double (effectively making, in your case, a 7.5 foot pole).

Tommy's poles were no more than six feet in length, so this form

of sectioning might not be stable for your poles.

The other way is to creative a metal sleeve which will connect

the sections. Bolts through the sleeve and the pole itself will

strengthen this connection, although the hole in the pole itself

might weaken the pole.

Whichever version you attempt, I would advise you to set up the

tent in your back yard (or some other convenient spot) under

good conditions before taking it into the field. 15-foot poles

seem awfully long, and unless they are very thick, I can foresee

difficulties. If at all possible, keep the tent up under a

variety of weather conditions (when I replaced the center poles

on my marquee, I left it up in the backyard for about three

weeks, through storms and everything; it convinced me to obtain

18-inch stakes among other things). Setting up the tent under

"friendly" conditions will also be a lot less nerve-racking than

trying to do it at an actual event.

(there is a third alternative, but it is expensive and time-

consuming: purchase the poles when you arrive at the site and

modify them on site. Transporting the poles a few miles is a

lot different from transporting them a few hundred)

Depending on your vehicle, you might also look into a roof rack

that would carry the full-sized poles or a trailer. I remember

the first time I ever saw the poles for a tipi being transported:

the owner of the lodge had a boat trailer which he had modified.

The poles went up at a roughly 45-degree angle, up over the

truck (or van, I forget) and were securely lashed to the trailer

itself. It was, at once, impressive, admirable and frightening.

Yrs, Folo

Damin de Folo - F.L.Watkins - folo at prairienet.org

Baron Wurm Wald (MK) - Commander Baldwin's Reg't (NWTA)

From: paulb at saturn.uark.edu (Paul A. Byers)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Got my period tent; Question about poles

Date: Mon, 25 Jul 1994 08:10:38

Organization: University of Arkansas

In article <30qclm$a9n at scratchy.reed.edu> odlin at reed.edu (Iain Odlin) writes:

> I now have a period tent. My problem: There is no possible way I can

> transport 15 foot poles, and the pole "instructions" that came with the

> tent says nothing about how to 'section' them. So, I ask anyone who has

> dealt with this problem: How'd you go about dealing with turning long poles

> into shorter, easier to carry poles without much loss of strength...?

I went to a hardware store and had 2" black pipe cut and threaded to the right

lengths. I have 3 short pieces that screw to one very long pole. (Oil them

when you put them togather.) I also have a brass pole that I got out of a oil

field set up the same way for my bed room tent.

Pavel

Calontir

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: ddfr at quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman)

Subject: Re: Got my period tent; Question about poles

Organization: University of Chicago

Date: Sun, 24 Jul 1994 02:43:56 GMT

Iain Odlin asks about how to make a take-down tent pole, and Folo

replies (in part):

"The other way is to creative a metal sleeve which will connect the

sections. Bolts through the sleeve and the pole itself will

strengthen this connection, although the hole in the pole itself

might weaken the pole."

In my experience, the bolts are unneceessary. I use a metal sleeve

about ten inches long, and file down the last five inches of each of

the two sections of tent pole (1 3/4" x 1 3/4" maple) to fit. The

problem isn't getting them to stay together, it is pulling them apart

when Pennsic is over. Using beeswax when putting them together may

make it a little easier.

The other problem is that filing them down does not result in

cylinders that are perfectly concentric with the rest of the pole, so

there is typically a slight bend at the join. The longer the sleeve,

the less serious that problem should be--but the harder it is to put

the sections together and pull them apart. I suppose if I had a lathe

long enough to handle the sections of tent pole, I could get an

almost perfectly concentric cylindrical end--but it would take a

pretty big lathe.

Next question--how did they do it in period? Pictures of persian

pavillions frequently show a band at the middle of the pole which

might be a metal sleeve--but I do not know whether there is any

solider evidence than that.

David/Cariadoc

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: delint at meena.cc.uregina.ca

Subject: RE: Got my period tent; Question about poles

Date: 25 JUL 94 06:21:38 CST

Organization: University of Regina, Regina, Sask., Canada

In a previous article, ddfr at quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman) wrote:

>Iain Odlin asks about how to make a take-down tent pole, and Folo

>replies (in part):

>"The other way is to creative a metal sleeve which will connect the

>sections. Bolts through the sleeve and the pole itself will

>strengthen this connection, although the hole in the pole itself

>might weaken the pole."

>In my experience, the bolts are unneceessary. I use a metal sleeve

>about ten inches long, and file down the last five inches of each of

>the two sections of tent pole (1 3/4" x 1 3/4" maple) to fit. The

>problem isn't getting them to stay together, it is pulling them apart

>when Pennsic is over. Using beeswax when putting them together may

>make it a little easier.

{some editing}

>Next question--how did they do it in period? Pictures of persian

>pavillions frequently show a band at the middle of the pole which

>might be a metal sleeve--but I do not know whether there is any

>solider evidence than that.

>David/Cariadoc

I don't know about period, but my Victorian era bell tent uses essentially

the same trick, except the the ends of the pole are cut at about a 45 degree

angle so the lock into each other. The sleeve is screwed to the end of one

half, and there's no cutting in-- the sleeve isn't flush with the wood. It

seems fairly solid (they've survived being decomissioned from army use, transfer

to boy scouts, and at least a half-century of use on the windy interior

plains of the known world).

Cedric van Kiesterzijl

From: kristina at uclink.berkeley.edu (Kristina Eloisa Pereyra)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Got my period tent; Question about poles

Date: 25 Jul 1994 00:15:55 GMT

Organization: University of California, Berkeley

More specifically, the poles to support a fifteen foot (canvas) tent should be

larger than standard closet poles (1 5/16) - don't buy those! The largest size

at our local mill is 1 5/8, which seems to work well, and fits the sleeve well.

The sleeve should be six times the diameter of the poles (about a foot long) and

can be made from 1 1/2 inch metal conduit - light, strong and easy to cut. Your

local Home Depot will gladly sell you ten feet of it for under $10.

(if you were local, I'd sell you the rest of mine... *wink*)

Phaedria

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: a-mikem at ac.tandem.com (mckay_michael)

Subject: Re: Got my period tent; Question about poles

Organization: Atalla Corporation - San Jose, CA.

Date: Mon, 25 Jul 1994 20:40:54 GMT

In article <30v07r$rfp at agate.berkeley.edu> kristina at uclink.berkeley.edu (Kristina Eloisa Pereyra) writes:

>More specifically, the poles to support a fifteen foot (canvas) tent should be

>larger than standard closet poles (1 5/16) - don't buy those! The largest size

>at our local mill is 1 5/8, which seems to work well, and fits the sleeve well.

Instead of going "larger", go for "tougher". Although it is harder to find,

you can buy a number of different types of wood in pole form. Hard wood is

more expensive, and it also wieghs more. The only place that has a good

selection (that I know of) in the Southern SF bay area is Southern Lumber in

San Jose. It runs about $3 a foot.

Seaan McAy Caer Darth; Darkwood; Mists; West (Santa Cruz, CA)

From: djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Got my period tent; Question about poles

Date: 26 Jul 1994 01:21:52 GMT

Organization: University of California, Berkeley

(Hal posting from Dorothy's account...)

In article <CtIK47.1JL at ac.tandem.com>,

mckay_michael <a-mikem at ac.tandem.com> wrote:

>In article <30v07r$rfp at agate.berkeley.edu> kristina at uclink.berkeley.edu (Kristina Eloisa Pereyra) writes:

>>More specifically, the poles to support a fifteen foot (canvas) tent should be

>>larger than standard closet poles (1 5/16) - don't buy those! The largest size

>>at our local mill is 1 5/8, which seems to work well, and fits the sleeve well.

>Instead of going "larger", go for "tougher". Although it is harder to find,

>you can buy a number of different types of wood in pole form. Hard wood is

>more expensive, and it also wieghs more. The only place that has a good

>selection (that I know of) in the Southern SF bay area is Southern Lumber in

>San Jose. It runs about $3 a foot.

This may be an east coast/west coast thing. Use of hardwood

appears (for various anecdotal sources) to be more common in the

eastern parts of the US.

Farther north than Sean cites, MacBeath Hardwood (stores in San

Francisco and Berkeley) have fullrounds in a variety of

hardwoods. 1-1/4 inch oak runs about $2.50 a foot (this makes

*great* marshalling staves, by the way).

Depending in how handy you feel, you could start with a square

piece and either saw it down to octagonal and "splice" that with

tubing as previously described or get a spokeshave and make your

own round pole.

What still hasn't been mentioned is *why* the orginal poster

can't transport a 15 foot pole.... Especially if one is using

hardwood, it should be stiff enough to be carried gracefully even

on a quite small car.

--Hal Ravn

(Hal Heydt)

From: jyeates at bga.com

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: RE: Got my period tent; Question about poles

Date: Mon, 01 Aug 94 10:18:49 PDT

Organization: Texas Department of Health

> I now have a period tent. My problem: There is no possible way I can

> transport 15 foot poles, and the pole "instructions" that came with the

> tent says nothing about how to 'section' them. So, I ask anyone who has

> dealt with this problem: How'd you go about dealing with turning long >poles

> into shorter, easier to carry poles without much loss of strength...?

look up your local metal-worker(s) and find one who can make metal "collars"

that have retaining pins to secure the pieces together through the "non fixed"

side of the collar ... will allow you to section the poles and still retain a

reasonable level of stregth.

another hint for transport ... get a segment of PVC drain pipe long enough to

put your poles in with about 6-8" excess space inside ... at one end use a cap,

at the other a screw in "clean out" cap. if you want to get fancier, add "d

rings" to the body of the tube to help secure on the roof-rack. same

contruction also works for pole based things you don't want rattling around -

like real spears (with blades scabbarded in oiled leather).

'wolf

From: haslock at oleum.zso.dec.com (Nigel Haslock)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Got my period tent; Question about poles

Date: 3 Aug 1994 22:41:54 GMT

Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

Greetings from Fiacha,

I went to my local sawmill, bought a 6 foot by 6 inch board of 8 quarters ash

and had them rip it into three 2 inch sections. I then went to a hardware store

and bought 18" of 1.75inch black pipe. I cut the pipe in half and took a rasp

to the pole sections until they fit solidly on the ends of two of the sections.

I kept on using the rasp until the mating ends were a loose fit. This gave me

a three piece 18' pole.

The first time I used it, it rained and the rain swelled the wood in the

top joint. It was months before I was able to separate those sections. I then

took off more wood to restore the original fit and then treated the end of the

section with one of the 'Danish Oil Finishes'. The pole has given no further

problems in eight years of use. The ends of the sections are square, rather

than cut at 45 degrees. The pole has a noticable bow while in use but the pole

does not flex in response to the wind.

The pole has a pulley set into the top so that the roof can be hauled up rather

than pushed up. A simple pulley is not adequate for this job. Another pulley is

fitted to the top of the roof so the rope is tied to the tip of the pole, runs

through the pulley on the roof, back up to the pulley in the pole and then down

to the person hauling on the rope.

My pole is probably heavier than necessary, but I am content because it has not

failed me and is not showing signs of wear or age.

Fiacha

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: nik at ess.niaid.pc.niaid.nih.gov (Nik Hughes)

Subject: Re: Ropes for a marquee pavilon

Organization: ess.niaid.pc.niaid.nih.gov

Date: Mon, 15 Aug 1994 20:07:10 GMT

In article <CuFL5w.95C at murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> kwk9q at fulton.seas.Virginia.EDU (Karl William Kieninger) writes:

>From: kwk9q at fulton.seas.Virginia.EDU (Karl William Kieninger)

>Subject: Ropes for a marquee pavilon

>Date: Fri, 12 Aug 1994 16:44:19 GMT

>I realize it is pretty simple, but I have not done it before.

>I have a 9'x15' Marquee for panther primatives. The perimeter poles

>are 6'.

> Can someone please e-mail instructions for preparing robes

>for the pavilion? I beleive the can be done either with a wooden block

>for tension or with some sort of adjustable know for tension.

>Any help would be appreciated.

>Thanks,

>Frithuric

Guten Tag Frithuric!

The knot you are looking for is called the Taut Line Hitch. I've tried to

explain it over the phone before and was less than successful. I won't even

try via e-mail. However, your local library or camping supply store should

have any number of books on knots. (Or find someone who was a Boy Scout. That

is how I learned.) The advantage to the Taut Line Hitch is that you can

replace the guy ropes at any time without special preparation.

The wooden block (or dowel) is simple to make in the shop. Cut an appropriate

length of wood that is at least three times as thick as your rope. Lay the

piece down on a piece of scrap lumber. Bore two holes straight down (not

into the end) that are slightly larger than your rope. Run the rope

down through one hole and back up the other. Tie a knot in the end of the rope

to keep it from sliding back throught the hole.

Just a word of warning. If you use non-synthetic rope, it tends to stretch in

the rain. This causes your tent to sag. Tightening the ropes for the duration

of the rain is a fine thing, but be sure to loosen them as/before the ropes

dry. As they dry, they shrink again. Hopefully it is the stakes that give way

rather than the cloth of the tent, but best not to tempt fate.

Hope this helps!

Klaus von Trollenberg

+- Nik Hughes (Troll) ----------------------+

| Bitnet: NIK%ESS%NIAID at NIH3PLUS.BITNET |

| Internet: NIK at ESS.NIAID.PC.NIAID.NIH.GOV |

| CompuServ: 71631.224 at COMPUSERVE.COM |

+-------------------------------------------+

From: chadwick at fndcd.fnal.gov (keith chadwick)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Pavilion/tent poles

Date: 19 Dec 1994 16:17:34 GMT

Organization: Fermilab Computing Division

> and that worked until a particularly windy day. What I'm *guessing* is

> acceptable is a 1 3/4 square center upright (12 feet-ish tall), and 16

> perimeter uprights of about 1 1/4" -- these latter dimensions being

> actual, not nominal. Has anyone worked with oak (or birch, or ash, or

> any other hardwood) in this kind of situation? Would 1x1.5 perimeter

> uprights be safe? (I couldn't flex them without a great deal more effort

> than I'd expect them to need to withstand, but...)

> I expect the total fabric weight of the tent to be on the near order

> of 100 lbs., perhaps as high as 120.

> Were I on an unlimited weight and expense budget, I'd just spring for

> 1 3/4 square, trimmed to octagons, with a larger centerpole, but both

> weight and cost adds up quickly; at nearly $3/foot, that's nearly $300

> for the perimeter poles alone, and they'd be a mite heavy to carry.

Part of the answer depends on the weather patterns.

The perimeter poles generally do not bear a significant load,

furthermore there are 16 of them so the load will be fairly

well distributed. I have seen many a pavillion built using

1.25" to 1.5" square perimeter poles.

The center pole on the other hand can be subject to a great deal

of stress. The weight of the (dry) fabric is not a significant

factor. But if the fabric gets soaked that can add several

hundred pounds of water. Furthermore if you are in moderate (or

higher) winds, the upper portion of your pavillon will tend to

resemble a sail.

The resultant stress due to wind loading can greatly exceed

even the weight of water soaked canvas.

If the canvas is both water soaked, and subject to wind loading,

I would not be surpirsed if the total load was 2,000 lb (or more).

This is a significant weight, some of which is going to be supported

by the canvas and the guy-ropes, but the remainder will be supported

by the center pole.

You should be able to find a reference to Euler's Column Formula

in a good mechanical engineering text book. This formula gives

the Critical Force (stress required to result in failure).

The formula for poles with one end held rigidly is:

pi^2 * E * I

Critical Force = --------------

4 * L^2

If both ends are allowed to flex, the formula is:

pi^2 * E * I

Critical Force = ----------------

L^2

Where: pi = 3.14159.

E is the modulus of elasticity of the material.

I is the moment of area.

L is the length.