p-tents-msg

p-tents-msg - 11/22/00

Period tents and documentation sources.

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Stefan at florilegium.org

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From: sbloch at euler.ucsd.edu (Steve Bloch)

Date: 19 Apr 91 00:04:01 GMT

lawbkwn at BUACCA.BITNET (Yaakov HaMizrachi/HJFeld) writes:

>I am looking for info on Middle-Eastern style tents.

>Specifically: How to build same and how much it is likely

>to cost to do so. (Also how long it would take.)

>I'd Ideally like to make something big enough to stand

>up in, but I would also be interested in anything smaller.

On Cariadoc's suggestion a year ago I looked up a wonderful book by

Torvald Faegre entitled "Tents: the Architecture of the Nomads". It

includes a chapter on Bedouin and related tents, a chapter on Turkish

black-tents, a chapter on North American tipis, one on sub-Saharan

felt and hide tents, one on yurts, and others I've forgotten. For each

type of tent Faegre gives a variety of pictures, often with scale

plans and elevations, discussion of materials and reasons they are so

chosen, details of fastenings ... a real treasure-trove.

In specific, I'm (still) planning to build a more-or-less Bedouin tent

(actually closer to Moroccan Berber style, since it rains in Morocco,

and besides Morocco's just across the Strait from my home). The const-

ruction is simplicity itself: a rectangle of fabric held up with poles

at center and edges, guyed to stakes in all directions, with optional

walls (of lighter fabric) hung from the edges of the roof by pins.

Faegre describes a variety of styles, some of which have center poles

over 3 m long. What I haven't managed yet is finding the right

fabric....

Stephen Bloch

sbloch at math.ucsd.edu

From: BERDANJ at YALEVM.BITNET (Susan)

Date: 20 Apr 91 13:52:20 GMT

Organization: The Internet

Allison Welch:

Write or call Mediaeval Miscellania, 7006 Raleigh Road, Annandale, VA 22003

(703) 354-7711

and order their booklet "Period Pavilions". It has all the how-to information

for pavilions, which is probably applicable to tents as well.

Amoret

From: ddfr at quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman)

Date: 20 Apr 91 00:41:42 GMT

Organization: University of Chicago

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Yaakov asks about Middle Eastern tents. For a detailed description of

the "Black Tent" (bedouin) and its many relatives, see the book

"Tents: The Architecture of the Nomads" by Torvald Faegre, mentioned

by Stephen Bloch in his posting. It has only a little historical

information but a lot on construction. It was the source for the

miniature Berber tent of red wool that I used at Argent (our pavilion

is a bit large for one person, and not easily air portable).

According to Faegre, the berber tent should be made of goat's wool. I

do not have a source, so I used ordinary, cloak weight wool, with

additional lengthwise reinforcing strips of heavy cotton along the

seams. I do not know if they are necessary. The standard tent of this

sort has reinforcing strips crosswise but not lengthwise.

For Middle-Eastern "pavilion" type tents, you might want to look at

the miniatures in the Houghton Shahnamah reproduction available from

the Metropolitan Museum in NY.

Cariadoc

From: mcs at unl.edu (michael straatmann)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: sunshades (was: Tent size)

Date: 28 May 1993 19:33:50 GMT

Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln

cozzlab at garnet.berkeley.edu () writes:

>Oh, I think you could have a sunshade of some kind in a period encampment.

>You take a chunk of fabric and put it up on poles to give you some

>extra shade: this is not an out-of-period concept. But in the period

>encampment the sunshade will be fabric, not blue plastic....

>Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin Dorothy J. Heydt

>Mists/Mists/West UC Berkeley

>Argent, a cross forme'e sable cozzlab at garnet.berkeley.edu

I would be extremely interested in any documentation you might have

for this. A local Laurel in tents and I have been having this

argument for years. I can prove that they were used in the Middle

East, but have failed in showing decisive evidence in Europe. I would

_love_ to prove her wrong. ;-) By the way, most of the Middle Eastern

ones (shown primarily in late period Turkish and Persian minatures)

appear to be rugs and tapestries and not fabric as we would think of.

I would also be interested in seeing any docs. on the attachment of

sunshades to tents. Although popular in SCA, the middle eastern stuff

shows a decisive maybe, and I have seen no European examples.

Thanks

misha

mcs at unlinfo.unl.edu <--(o o)-<< mikes at unllib.unl.edu

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: tbarnes at silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes)

Subject: Re: Period tentage

Organization: Indiana University

Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1993 20:37:36 GMT

In article <1993Jun2.083627.7965 at csusac.csus.edu> batest at athena.ecs.csus.edu (Tim Bates) writes:

> Does anyone have any ideas on how to 'convert' an Army

>GP-small,medium,large into a period looking pavilion.

Burn it down and build a real pavilion on the ashes.

I've seen GP tents and the color and cut is utterly unlike a medieval

style pavilion. Even if you were to repaint it and put dags along the

edge it would still look like a dressed up GP{whatever}.

To start with, you have to make the walls higher and you'd have

to make the line of the roof more peaked to make it look right.

This is a shame, since GP tents are virtually indestructable and

weatherproof.

Lothar

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: ddfr at quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman)

Subject: Re: period encampments

Organization: University of Chicago

Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 05:02:19 GMT

Tangwystyl mentions a mid-sixteenth century Italian book with

drawings of fancy pavilions. Those interested in such things might

want to look at the _Ain I Akbari_, which has pictures of fancy 16th

c. Mogul pavilions.

David/Cariadoc

From: Kelly.Coco at mvs.udel.EDU

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Tents, walls, encampments, etc......

Date: 2 Dec 1994 11:03:07 -0500

Organization: The Internet

Steiner sends Greetings unto the Rialto!

A couple of points from my FWIW file;

Having started out my medieval experience with a (ugh!) dome tent, I

quickly found a way to make it less of a visual eyesore (in my own

eyes that is!) Easiest and cheapest would be to erect a bedsheet "A"

frame tent *over* the dome tent. None can see it, the sheets don't

need to be water proofed and there is little additional burden to haul.

Eventually I got a large heavy duty painters canvas drop cloth, water-

proofed it and hung it on a line A-frame stlye. I *still* use it and

the various molds and mildews that have come to reside in it have given

it a nice look. I do use a plastic tarp underneath, but none can see it.

If you're broke, and who has'nt been, become a *good* scrounge, Most of

what you will need can be found cheaply, or free!

The chronicles of Joinville, that of St Louis, I believe in Ch. 10 has

a wondrous description of the Sultans encampment. It is very much worth

the few minutes it take to read for those unfamiliar with the work.

The camp is described as being surrounded in walls of blue fabric, the

same material as the pavillions are made of as well. Towers are described

as made of poles and again covered in blue so that from the outside of

the camp all one sees is a jumble of blue shapes. The good sultan even

had a pavillion in the Med itself for bathing and a covered walkway, you

guessed it, in blue, leading down to it. In many ways this is what we do

at Pennsic albeit with more varied and personnal designs.Aside from the

obvious privacy obtained, our *anachronisms* are out of sight, everything

*looks* more medieval and the atmosphere is enhanced. Walls. Gotta lov'em!

Vale,

Steiner

(Who always dreams of a more period camp)

From: ddfr at midway.uchicago.edu (1/8/95)

To: Mark Harris

Mail*LinkÆ SMTP RE>Pavilion/tent poles

The main thing I would change is the system for hanging the walls. What I

describe works, but I have no evidence that it is period. One of our local

couples made a pavillion based on a design by a Calontir Countess who has

done a lot of work with pavillions. The shoulder is a rope sewed roughly

where my dowels are, and the walls button on. I don't think I can give a

precise description, not having been involved in making it, but I think it

is probably a better design.

David/Cariadoc

David Friedman

ddfr at midway.uchicago.edu

From: cav at bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: A *NEW* Tent Thing

Date: 9 Dec 1994 17:12:03 GMT

Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.

In article <941206155228.24c0110e at vax2.utulsa.edu>, IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu (I. Marc Carlson) writes:

|> I was asked a few days ago whether I knew of any documentation for

|> the "Classic Viking A-Frame" tent. When, after torture, I confessed

|> my ignorance, I swore to pass the question on to this collection of

|> informational Pack Rats :)

|> Any hints?

|> A simple scholar,

|> Diarmuit Ui Dhuinn

|> University of Northkeep

|> Northkeepshire, Ansteorra

|> (I. Marc Carlson/IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu)

After several unsuccessful attempts to remember, I finally brought in

what little I have. This is from 'Guide to the Viking Ship Museum':

Tents and 'camp beds' seem to have been normal accessories when travelling

by ship. Probably most of the crew slept out in the open when the ship was

in port, but it seems likely that the more prominent persons on board were

provided with beds adn with a tent to protect them from wind and weather.

Frames for two tents and for a house-shaped booth were found in the Oseberg

ship, as well as beds. The Gokstad ship had one tent and six beds, one

ornately carved, the others plain. The reconstruction sketch shows one of

the frames from the Oseberg find. Only the animals' heads were visible

when the sailcloth had been stretched over the frame. The tents and beds

from the Oseberg find are so damaged that they cannot be displayed; copies

of 3 beds stand on the gallery above the entrance door. The verge boards

from the Gokstad tent hang over the small boats, and at the bottom of the

'4th wing'.

The text seems to imply that these tent frames are in addition to the

wood/bark covered burial chambers that were erected on the ships (they are

discussed in another section of the guide).

Not exactly an extensive reference, but at least it points to a primary

source.

Cheers, Rick C.

From: WISH at uriacc.uri.EDU (Peter Rose)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: tents

Date: 13 Mar 1995 16:15:52 -0500

Organization: The Internet

>Some time ago someone posted the instructions to construct a bedouin tent

>(also called pushtun, pathan, or "leather butterflies"). I failed to save

>these instructions, of course, and now would like to have them. The

>instructions I recall created a tent large enough to sleep 20 or so people

>and was extremely large.

>We'd like to be able to construct such a tent but in somewhat smaller size!

It wasn't me, but:

Depends on what kind of Arab.. I've got pictures of Kurdish, Moorish,

Berber, Bedoin, and Baluchi(**) "tents". (the Kurdish and Baluchi seem to have

reed or wicker sidewalls) All of them seem to be made of a rectangular roof,

held up by varying systems of supports, and stays, and then separate side

walls, and sometimes interior dividers. All of them have to be made from

the black belly-hairs of goats. :-) If you'll send me your snail-mail

address, I'll mail you my notes, but for now:

The Bedoin tent has 3(*) pair of poles, the center pair being a bit taller,

The top end is forked, and stuck through loops attached to the overhead

canopy. The canopy extends beyond the poles to the left and right, and stays

extend from the ends, so that the canopy has extended eaves.

Stays also extend to the front and back, but these seem to be attached to

the poles, and go more steeply to the ground.

A separate wall-bit is pinned to the underside of the canopy, so that

both sides and the back are closed off, and a bit (a yard or two?) extends

beyond the canopy to the front, these 'wings' are attached to the guys

from the poles.. An interior wall separates the male area from the

female area, the female area is usually larger.

It isn't in the picture, but from other sources, there may be a third

wall/panel for the front, which is flipped up on top of the canopy

when not in use.

The outer walls are weighted down with rubble.

+--=P=======P=======P=--+ <--Something like that

| ! ! |

+--!P-------P-------P!--+

! !

(*) More or fewer pairs of poles, depending on how big the tent is.

(**) What's a Baluchi?

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: ddfr at quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman)

Subject: Re: Looking for instructions for Arab/nomad tent

Keywords: pushtun, pathan, "leather butterflies", bedouin tent

Organization: The University of Chicago

Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 17:05:31 GMT

Siobhan asks about bedouin tents. I do not know about the particular

posting she mentions, but I would recommend a book called _Tents:

Architecture of the Nomads_. I have forgotten the author's name, but

it had a lot of detailed information on related designs ranging

roughly from Morocco to central Asia.

David/Cariadoc

From: chadwick at fndcd.fnal.gov (Keith Chadwick)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Looking for instructions for Arab/nomad tent

Date: 13 Mar 1995 05:24:09 GMT

Organization: Fermilab Computing Division

In article <D5C7H8.9oo at midway.uchicago.edu>, ddfr at quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman) writes:

> Siobhan asks about bedouin tents. I do not know about the particular

> posting she mentions, but I would recommend a book called _Tents:

> Architecture of the Nomads_. I have forgotten the author's name, but

> it had a lot of detailed information on related designs ranging

> roughly from Morocco to central Asia.

> David/Cariadoc

Here is the relevant information on this book:

Tents: Architecture of the Nomands

by Torvald Faegre

Published by Anchor Books, Anchor Press/Doubleday

Garden City, New York 1979

ISBN: 0-385-11656-X

Library of Congress Catalog Card Number: 77-25588

-Keith Chadwick

Austin Chadwyck of Normandy

From: mcs at unlinfo.unl.edu (M Straatmann)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: tents and walls

Date: 31 Mar 1995 22:07:00 GMT

Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln

M Straatmann (mcs at unlinfo.unl.edu) wrote:

: As Azelin mentioned, the Turkish and Persian encampments are often

: potrayed with cloth walls around them.

: There are also some German ones from various woodcuts of seiges which

: seem to illustrate cloth walls as well.

: References upon request.

OK, found my German reference.

The German Single Leaf Woodcut 1500-1550

Volume II

Revised and Edited by Walter L. Strauss

Hacker Art Books, Inc. 1974

ISBN 0-87817-125-8

p. 646 by Lucas Cranach, the Younger

---

For the Turkish and Persian one, just about any book on

Turkish/Persian miniatures should have a couple, tho' not ubiquitious

(the walls, that is) they are certainly common.

Mikhail Nikolaevich, Calontir

mcs at unlinfo.unl.edu

From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: tents and walls

Date: 4 Apr 1995 05:18:57 GMT

Organization: University of California, Berkeley

Another data point on the subject comes from a 16th century Italian

sketchbook (published as "Il Libro del Sarto" that includes over a dozen

drawings of various tent designs including elaborate encampments that use

mock "walls". They don't appear to be fabric but are obviously some sort

of thin, flimsy substance supported at intervals by posts set into the

ground. The "walls" generally stretch between tents set at the corners of

the enclosure, sometimes with a larger "main" tent in the center of the

enclosure.

Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn

From: wildgoose at gateway.ecn.com (Keith Cunningham)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re:Celtic Tent Info

Date: 7 Jun 1995 16:34:09 -0700

Organization: West Coast Computer Products

Again here we go.

Two types of tents would be period and accurate.

1] The Roman style wall tent is period and used from the 1st Century BC

thru to the American Civil war. The are large airy cheap and correct for

Scotland. The concept that the people would have slept on the ground

while moving from point a to point b is a foolish. Herdsmen would have

had cover while taking the herds to better pasture.

2] The costal area shows evidence of fishing camps [extant drawings] that

would have been populated with fishermen sleeping in Viking style

triangle tents. These tents would have been much like the Gostad bog

find tents.

Keith Cunningham

Cain MacRob MhicMiron Connyhaim of Connyhaim

From: celtic at sover.net (Stuart Joseph)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re:Celtic Tent Info

Date: 12 Jun 1995 15:17:40 GMT

Organization: Celtic Cultures

In article <3r5d1h$dc8 at gateway.ecn.com>, wildgoose at gateway.ecn.com says...

>Again here we go.

>Two types of tents wouldbe period and accurate.

>1] The Roman style wall tent is period and used from the 1st Century BC

>thru to the American Civil war.

Where did you find the documentation for this point? I am trying to be authentic

while merchanting and would like to know more.

The concept that the people would have slept on the ground

>while moving from point a to point b is a foolish. Herdsmen would have

>had cover while taking the herds to better pasture.

Highlanders did sleep in the open. There are accounts of how they would wet their

plaids, wrap thenselves in them, and go to sleep sheltered by a rock or a gorse

bush, and this was in the winter time!

However, this is something i would not wish to emulate, even though I have a

pre- Braveheart/Rob Roy Highland Scots persona, so I am looking for a period tent.

Stuidhart Martainn Mac Dhomhnaill

Celtic Cultures

From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Celtic Tent Info

Date: 16 Jun 1995 18:37:41 GMT

Organization: University of California, Berkeley

Madoc (NASH_JOHN/HPBRIT_C6 at hpcpbla.bri.hp.com) wrote:

: We have been trying to find evidence of Welsh tents but

: have so far drawn a blank. Believe me, we have had far more than