tents-weather-msg

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tents-weather-msg - 8/19/12

How various tent styles have fared in bad weather.

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NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,

Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous

Stefan at florilegium.org

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Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: ojid.wbst845 at xerox.com (Orilee Ireland-Delfs)

Subject: Re: (those darn )viking tents

Organization: Xerox Corporation, Webster NY

Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 17:21:30 GMT

hendle1 at aol.com (Hendle 1) writes:

> A wedge tent is a tent set up with two poles at the ends with just the

> canvas itself and two ropes supporting it. A Viking tent utilizes a

> ridgepole, two angled supports at each end, usually topped by carved

> dragonheads, a support across the entrances front and back connecting the

> foot of each of the angled supports and a support running on each side

> from the front foot to the back. The whole point of the Viking tents,

> beyond the supposed beginnings as a sail and five oars, was that it could

> be lifted as a complete unit from onboard to shore and back again without

> disassembly. And that is one of the advantages of it in our camping

> experience today...and unlike a dome tent it doesn't roll away in a big

> gust.

Um, actually : ) We had a viking tent in our camp one year at

Pennsic that *did* roll away in a big gust. Landed upside

down in a neighboring camp on top of a gear tent. Left

the lady's stuff sitting in the middle of the camp

getting wet. About the only damage it sustained was one of

the carved beasties on the top broke off. The gear tent, other

than being squashed, was okay. We were all very happy that it

hadn't landed on a tent with someone inside.

When she found out what happened (and after the initial shock),

her first comment was along the lines of "I asked him if it

should be staked down and he said no!"

Orianna

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: ederd at bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Dani Eder)

Subject: Re: tents blowing away was: (those darn )viking tents

Organization: The Boeing Company

Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 20:45:04 GMT

ojid.wbst845 at xerox.com (Orilee Ireland-Delfs) writes:

>Um, actually : ) We had a viking tent in our camp one year at

>Pennsic that *did* roll away in a big gust. Landed upside

...

>When she found out what happened (and after the initial shock),

>her first comment was along the lines of "I asked him if it

>should be staked down and he said no!"

Being a mundane engineer and an SCA tent maker, here is some stuff

about tents and stakes:

A 50 mile per hour wind can generate a force of about 10 pounds

per square foot. For most tents this is about 10 times the weight

of the tent itself. Thus unless you have a large amount of gear

weighing the tent down AND the tent sheds wind forces easily, your

tent can blow away if not staked down. Even if your tent is staked

down, if not staked properly, the wind can lift the tent enough for

the tent poles to fall down.

Tent stakes use the resistance of the earth to maintain position,

so depending on how soft the earth is you may need to use bigger

stakes on a given site. My rule of thumb is if I can pound my

normal stakes (3/8" x 12" spikes, these look like big nails) in

with less than 4 hammer blows, I need to use the big stakes

(1/2" x 18" rebar).

On my oval pavilion, the main poles have a 12" dowel sticking up

through the canvas (that holds the pennants), so the wind can't

lift the canvas enough to slip off pole. I also made a 6"x12"

plywood base for the main poles that (a) keeps them from sinking

into soft ground, which would loosen guy rope tension, and (b)

lets me put stakes into the base of the main poles so they can't

shift sideways and fall down (even if someone runs into them).

In addition to the main guy ropes (3 to each main pole) that keep

the poles in place, I have stake loops every 3 feet along the

base of the tent. Usually I use half of them (12 out of 24).

If you figure that under normal circumstances each stake will resist

100 lb of line tension (based on how hard it seems to pull them

out), that I have 20 stakes total in the ground (6 guy rope, 12

around the base, and 2 in the main poles), then I can resist

2000 lb of wind load. Since my tent is 9 ft high and about 22

wide on average, a 50 mph wind can generate 2000 lb of force, so

that is just enough staking (if a serious stormis coming, I put in

more stakes).

At 25th year celebration, the Ansteorran winds were high enough

to bend one of the metal frame pieces, but the stakes held up.

So my rule of thumb would be 1 12" spike for each 10 square feet

of side area under normal circumstances, with more for soft ground

or really nasty weather.

Daniel

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: ab575 at FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Rebecca Cairns)

Subject: Re: (those darn )viking tents

Organization: The National Capital FreeNet, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 18:30:13 GMT

> And that is one of the advantages of it in our camping

> experience today...and unlike a dome tent it doesn't roll away in a big

> gust.

Dome tents roll away? Not in my experience:

July 8, 1994, 11:00 p.m., Autocrat's Day Off, Skraeling Althing.

A tornado and torrential rains ripped through our campsite.

Scorecard:

TENT TYPE LASTED

Big Circular Period Pavillion 2 seconds

Small Viking A-Frame Crushed by falling tree

A-Frame Dining Fly 2 seconds

Regular Frame Tent Several minutes

6-Person Dome Tent (ours!) Stayed up and stayed put !!!

Luckily, no one was seriously hurt (not even the 16-year-old pinned under the

tree in her Viking tent).

The ability of a tent to stay UP in a high wind is a matter of aerodynamics and

flexibility. My experience says, the wind can't get a grip on the round

contours of a dome tent and its shock-corded poles tensioned by the tent itself

make for excellent resilience against even the mightiest gusts.

Staying PUT is a matter of solid pegging which is partly materials (size,

strength and material of pegs and tent loops) and partly ground consistency

(obviously, dry sand is not going to hold pegs as well as good solid earth or

clay). But, in general, the longer the peg, the better your chances.

Ask me if I want anything but a dome tent after THAT experience !!!

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------*

* SCA: Lady Isabella Oakwood | *

* Barony of Skraeling Althing, | "I hear and I forget, *

* Ealdormere, Midrealm | I see and I remember, *

* MKA: Rebecca Cairns | I do and I understand." *

* Kanata, Ontario Canada | - Confucius. *

* NET: ab575 at FreeNet.carleton.ca | *

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------*

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: gl8f at fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Greg Lindahl)

Subject: Re: (those darn )viking tents

Organization: Department of Astronomy, University of Virginia

Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 13:54:32 GMT

Rebecca Cairns <ab575 at FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote:

>Dome tents roll away? Not in my experience:

>July 8, 1994, 11:00 p.m., Autocrat's Day Off, Skraeling Althing.

>A tornado and torrential rains ripped through our campsite.

>Scorecard:

> TENT TYPE LASTED

> Big Circular Period Pavillion 2 seconds

> Small Viking A-Frame Crushed by falling tree

> A-Frame Dining Fly 2 seconds

> Regular Frame Tent Several minutes

> 6-Person Dome Tent (ours!) Stayed up and stayed put !!!

2 years ago at Novice Tourney in Danville, Virginia, a squall line of

thunderstorms hit the site. My 6-man dome tent was punched in by a

gust of wind: kind of like an umbrella being turned inside out. All of

my stuff was completely soaked, because the tent became a huge

rain-collector. We then knocked down the rest of our tents (that's

easy to do with a modern frame tent), and hid in our cars. Actually,

we left the pup tent up, and it survived.

So no, no tent is perfect in a storm, and dome tents can be done in by

a sufficiently mighty gust.

>Ask me if I want anything but a dome tent after THAT experience !!!

I now camp in my trusty elizabethan A-frame, thanks.

Gregory Blount

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: (those darn )viking tents

From: una at bregeuf.stonemarche.org (Honour Horne-Jaruk)

Date: Mon, 10 Jul 95 09:11:04 EDT

garvey at poohbear.cig.mot.com (Heather L. Garvey) writes:

> Rebecca Cairns <ab575 at FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote:

> >Dome tents roll away? Not in my experience:

> >

> >The ability of a tent to stay UP in a high wind is a matter of aerodynamics

> >flexibility. My experience says, the wind can't get a grip on the round

> >contours of a dome tent and its shock-corded poles tensioned by the tent its

> >make for excellent resilience against even the mightiest gusts.

> During the big rainstorms last Pennsic, I was lying in my dome

> tent PRAYING it wouldn't go anywhere and all that happened was that

> I'd get whacked by the tent top every once in a while. (Yes, while lying down

> The tent folded over until it was flat against the ground and then

> sprung right back up. Scary until you get used to it. :))

> If you've got a dome tent staked right, it ain't a-goin' nowhere....

> -- Maggie MacKenzie

Respected friends:

A properly staked A-frame tent, with all its structural members in

place (That's important- many people leave out things like the bottom end

boards) can, and will, withstand gale force 8 winds. (I know- I once watched

a 30x15 "footprint" model do so.)

Then again, so will a _properly_ guy-roped and staked pavilion. The

problem is simply that most of us don't put them up properly; we especially

tend to skimp on the wall stakes.

The latter problem is made worse by the shower-curtain-hook sides

too frequently seen on our SCAbomination "pavilions" -- Once those weak little

hooks let go the strongest pegs in the world won't save you. My pavilion top

has doubled- canvas ties to hold the sides on. My one regret is not

special-ordering it with the ties 1 foot apart instead of the standard 3.

However, if you frequently experience gale force 6 or higher winds,

you really should consider either complete-circumference side poles _with

matching ties on the wall fabric_ - or bowing to the high-wind champions and

switching to a Yurt. They get winds on those steppes that would scare a

tornado.

If you already have a dome tent, you can reduce the inversions somewhat

by sewing extra guy loops to the outside of the rain fly, 2/3 of the way

up each rib, and then staking the resultant extra ropes far enough out so they

don't touch the fabric. Of course, this massively increases your "footprint".

Oh, well...

Above gale force six, nothing will save most sushades/awnings/

dining flys. Even if the pegs hold, the fabric doesn't. Good tip: drop the

fly, pull the pegs, add the ropes and pegs to your pavilion on the side the

storm is coming in from- but keep those pegs at least 3 feet from the old set.

Just those 4 extra ropes can make a critical differance.

And of course, you knew that you _never_ tie one tent's ropes to

another tent's ropes, poles, or pegs... didn't you?

For sand, use corkscrew dog-chain anchors. For deep sand, use goat-

chain anchors. For either, double all ropes (staked seperately, of course)

and _never_ face a door to the wind.

...Can you tell I used to own a US Army hospital tent?

Yours in service to the Society-

(Friend) Honour Horne-Jaruk R.S.F.

Alizaunde, Demoiselle de Bregeuf C.O.L. SCA

Una Wicca (That Pict)

From: caradoc at neta.com (John Groseclose)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: (those darn )viking tents

Date: 13 Jul 1995 09:22:23 GMT

ab575 at FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Rebecca Cairns) wrote:

<snip>

> July 8, 1994, 11:00 p.m., Autocrat's Day Off, Skraeling Althing.

> A tornado and torrential rains ripped through our campsite.

> Scorecard:

> TENT TYPE LASTED

> Big Circular Period Pavillion 2 seconds

> Small Viking A-Frame Crushed by falling tree

> A-Frame Dining Fly 2 seconds

> Regular Frame Tent Several minutes

> 6-Person Dome Tent (ours!) Stayed up and stayed put !!!

<snip>

I was in a two-man dome tent during the "Great Estrella Hurricane" a few

years back. I was awakened at some point during the storm by something wet

touching my face: the roof. The winds were blowing hard enough to force

the poles over so that the whole tent was flopped sideways like a muffin

cap, but the floor never left the ground. Yes, the domes will weather

storms if they're staked down properly, but best not keep anything in them

that requires headspace more than a few inches tall. Especially if the

items are fragile.

I weathered a windstorm out at the Baron's War in Tir Ysgithr in a 15'x15'

Tentmasters' "Mitred Corner Octagon" where more than one unstaked dome

tent took to the air, often with the owners belongings inside. The only

problem I found with the Tentmasters' tent was that I'd left the top two

corners of the door untied to let air circulate. A wind gust came through,

and "boomed" the walls of the tent, just like sails.

The stakes held, the poles held, the ropes held. When I arose in the

morning, all of the adjacent campsites looked like someone had come

through with a giant blender. Two dome tents had snapped their poles, and

several others had simply lost their seams, leaving erect frameworks of

fiberglass poles, but the tents had collapsed.

All in all, I prefer the Tentmasters' canvas: it'll stay up in darn near

any kind of weather, and you don't need to worry as much about the walls

touching your gear. The nylon tents tend to soak anything that comes into

the slightest contact with the walls.

caradoc at enet.net - John Groseclose - http://www.neta.com/~caradoc

From: sbloch at adl15.adelphi.edu (Stephen Bloch)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: More onPeriod Tents

Date: 24 Aug 1996 21:52:26 GMT

Organization: Adelphi University, Garden City, NY

DRAGONS2 <dragons2 at algorithms.com> wrote:

>I have always been told that if I were to buy a pavilion that I should

>only buy a tentmaster. The reasoning behind this, I have been told, is

>that their tents are practically the only ones left standing after bad

>storms.

This is surely something of an exaggeration. The great majority of

tents were left standing after this year's storm, including all of the

homemade pavilions in our encampment. In fact, the ones I've seen

blowing away tend to be modern tents.

>I would like to hear feedback from other pavilion owners.

>What do you like and dislike about your pavilion, who's is it, what shape

>etc. I originally was considering a rectangular one but was told the oval

>ones are better and easier to set up. What is your opinion? email me or

>post here for all to see.

Ours is an oval, 12' x 18'. It has two center poles, no side poles,

and sixteen guy ropes. Counting fabric, poles, finials, rope, thread,

etc. it cost us somewhere under $500 (I haven't added it up

precisely). It fit, along with a week's worth of food, clothing,

musical instruments, etc. into (and on top of) a Ford Escort. It also,

of course, cost us many hours of design, cutting, sewing, splicing,

etc, and now we know a lot more about tents than we did before.

mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib

Stephen Bloch

sbloch at panther.adelphi.edu

http://www.adelphi.edu/~sbloch/

Math/CS Dept, Adelphi University

Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 14:57:10 -0400

From: Dana Theis <yllaria at compuserve.com>

To: "INTERNET:sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu" <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>

Subject: French Double Bell Tents

I'd like to put in a plug for the double bell tents as well. After the

first night of "big winds" at GWWI, my daughter's brand-new double bell was

the only thing left standing in our encampment, and it continued to stand

up just fine the rest of the event. I'm now lusting after one like it.

Yllaria

Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 11:32:32 MST

From: "Trish Kvamme" <ladyoftherose at hotmail.com>

Subject: ANST - pavilion flying and other summer sports

To: Ansteorra at ansteorra.org

I just wanted to take a moment here to brag on my newest apprentice Lady

Marguerite of Spinning Winds Pavillions.

After the WeatherLord storm this weekend, all of the tents she has made on

site were still standing, and everything inside the ones in my camp were

dry.

I am proud of you girl!

Larissa

From: Bree Flowers <evethejust at gmail.com>

Date: April 28, 2011 5:28:35 PM CDT

To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] canvas shelter alternatives - was - Re: New 10x20 garage pavillions for $85 at Walmart

My tent is like a rock in bad weather. Stake it good and get good

strong poles and a period pavilion will serve you well. At one event

my tent stood its ground while a yurt flipped (the owner was dumb

enough to forget all his stakes at home but one and thought that it he

used just one that might do the trick) and a larger a-frame came down

when the ridgepole snapped. The metal stakes at the top of my poles

were seriously bent (nothing a good hammer and anvil can't fix) but

otherwise my stuff was dry, the canvas held firm and I was nice and

safe. Now I will admit that with no floor, water can rush through it

like a river, but I know I'll have a roof over my head.

~Eve

On Apr 28, 2011, at 9:04 AM, Bree Flowers wrote:

<<< I have the Big Wedge tent. It's lovely to camp in, but would not serve

well for merchanting as it is hard to walk anywhere but right up the

middle.

I'm hoping with the addition of the sunshade that I can kick some of

our "stuff" out (chairs, tables, coolers) and have enough room for the

whole family in the tent until the kids are big enough to sleep on

their own, then we'll have to get another wedge.

~Eve >>>

On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 8:58 AM, Hellsgate Web Minister

<daria at hellsgate-sca.org> wrote:

<< Eve ~

Which of their tents do you have?

I have been debating their 14x14 wall tent for merchanting.

I think the feast gear a friend of mine make will go over well & a period pavilion would just add to the display.

DBaroness Daria Riley

Hellsgate Web Minister

http://www.hellsgate-sca.org >>>

From: Chris Zakes <dontivar at gmail.com>

Date: April 28, 2011 10:00:56 PM CDT

To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] canvas shelter alternatives - was - Re: New 10x20 garage pavillions for $85 at Walmart

<< Some years back at a Steppes Warlord, we had a major rain/wind storm come through (no actual tornados, although the wind was strong enough that the tornado siren on site was going off.) *Every* popup and garage pavilion around the listfield was destroyed, the period-style pavilions all survived. I expect part of that is because the period pavilions all had lots of stakes and guy ropes, and part is because wood poles are more likely than either steel or aluminum to flex a bit in high wind.

-Tivar Moondragon >>

<<< Only problem I ever had at Steppes with my carport pavilion was trying to fold the cover in 20-30mph winds ;)

Otherwise, I keep it staked and roped when it's set-up. >>>

At that particular Warlord (so I was told) the winds were running 50+ mph. That's what was triggering the tornado siren. There was a black-and-yellow carport roof that ended up against one of the power poles near the listfield... about fifteen or twenty feet up, and bearing a strong resemblance to the sail on a viking ship.

-Tivar Moondragon

From: Chris Zakes <dontivar at gmail.com>

Date: April 28, 2011 8:07:12 PM CDT

To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] canvas shelter alternatives - was - Re: New 10x20 garage pavillions for $85 at Walmart

At 05:28 PM 4/28/2011, you wrote:

<<< My tent is like a rock in bad weather. Stake it good and get good

strong poles and a period pavilion will serve you well. At one event

my tent stood its ground while a yurt flipped (the owner was dumb

enough to forget all his stakes at home but one and thought that if he

used just one that might do the trick) and a larger a-frame came down

when the ridgepole snapped. The metal stakes at the top of my poles

were seriously bent (nothing a good hammer and anvil can't fix) but

otherwise my stuff was dry, the canvas held firm and I was nice and

safe. Now I will admit that with no floor, water can rush through it

like a river, but I know I'll have a roof over my head.

~Eve >>>

Some years back at a Steppes Warlord, we had a major rain/wind storm come through (no actual tornados, although the wind was strong enough that the tornado siren on site was going off.) *Every* popup and garage pavilion around the listfield was destroyed, the period-style pavilions all survived. I expect part of that is because the period pavilions all had lots of stakes and guy ropes, and part is because wood poles are more likely than either steel or aluminum to flex a bit in high wind.

-Tivar Moondragon

Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2011 18:20:02 +1000

From: Braddon Giles <braddongiles at gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Lochac] Our ancestors weren't stupid

To: "The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list"

On 30 April 2011 13:27, Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com> wrote:

> Period tents do have a good record of standing up to bad weather...

Anyone who wants me to rave about how good Maud's Yurt is, or how well

made it was by Buz Daviydov, then contact me privately. Yurts rock. I

got as far East as Persia this year, and I might get fully Mongolian

for next Festival.

Giles.