bone-msg - 10/26/01
Working with bone and antler. Cleaning bones. Whitening bones. Sources of bone and antler.
NOTE: See also the files: horn-msg, Horn-Spoons-art, glues-msg, leather-msg,
lea-tanning-msg, leather-bib, leather2-bib.
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NOTICE -
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
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Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
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Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: malmberg at badlands.NoDak.edu (Kenric D Malmberg)
Subject: Re: working skeletal materials
Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 20:22:34 GMT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network
Good gentles,
Nahum asks:
: have folks had a bad problem of shrinkage? [in bones/antlers]
: how to deal with this?
: I had made a thumb ring (middleeastern archery device) from antler and
: it worked great...
: for awhile...
: then it started bothering - I had first thought that this was because
: of my thumb swelling (after shooting alot)
: but last time I was about to use it, the thing did not fit at all.
: I could continue sanding - but eventually I'll be left with no ring.
: So,
: is it gonna stop shrinking?
: when I make a new one, how much shrinking do I need to account for?
: any other advice?
Well, I hate to have to use modern references, but the Boone and
Crockett rule on measurement of skulls is that the skull has had to
dry for at least a year before measurement. Thus a year of drying
_before_ making the item is a good idea. Secondly, remember that bone
is a porous substance. Sealing it after shaping it should slow or
stop the shrinkage. Hope this helps.
In service,
Kenric Bjarnarson
From: "Falcone al Rasool ibn Muhajir" <polearmed at worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: working with bone
Date: 12 Feb 1997 15:38:11 GMT
Organization: Elvegast.Windmasters' Hill.Atlantia
Allah's Peace unto you!!
Scott G. Hofer <simplex at pipeline.com> wrote:
> I'm looking for information on working with bone. In specific, I have
> two racks of deer antlers that I'd like to make into buttons and
> needles. If anyone has any advice or can point me towards some good
> sources I'd be be very grateful.
Konrad:
I suggest you use a little know Xacto tool. It is a small coping saw, for
which Xacto sells tiny little saw blades. The blades are like 6 inches
long and very thin. Saw the buttons by hand(you should always use a
comfort mask AT LEAST, if not a chemical respirator when dealing with any
bone or horn) with this little saw and the polishing work is reduced.
For needles, I think you should maximize your time by making blocks with
the needle profile shape, then sawing length-wise. You will want some
precision files on hand for the eye, etc. If you shave these off of the
block, you maight add a little bit of a curve to it. At that point, it
will be a weak needle.
Good luck.
Falcone
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Donald Wagner Falcone al Rasool ibn Muhajir
Raleigh, NC Barony of Windmasters' Hill
Lead Technical Instructor - WorldNet Kingdom of Atlantia
<dswagner at attmail.com> <polearmed at worldnet.att.net>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: afn03234 at freenet3.afn.org (Ronald L. Charlotte)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: working with bone
Date: 15 Feb 1997 12:47:28 GMT
simplex at pipeline.com (Scott G. Hofer) wrote:
> I'm looking for information on working with bone. In specific, I have
> two racks of deer antlers that I'd like to make into buttons and
> needles. If anyone has any advice or can point me towards some good
> sources I'd be be very grateful.
_The_ book to get your hands on is _Bone, Antler, Ivory & Horn_ by
Arthur MacGregor (ISBN 0 389 20531 1). It has more information on
historical (from the Roman era forward) skeletal material work than any
three other books.
Just as a point of fact, with no insult intended, antler is _not_ bone.
It doesn't behave the same or work the same. You can count on getting
your buttons from the antler, but as needles, antler will be short-lived
at best.
--
al Thaalibi ---- An Crosaire, Trimaris
Ron Charlotte -- Gainesville, FL
afn03234 at afn.org
From: afn03234 at freenet2.afn.org (Ronald L. Charlotte)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: working with bone
Date: 18 Feb 1997 11:50:12 GMT
"Charlotte A. Gilmour" <rgbailey at aiinc.com> wrote:
> I have a question...would antlers be okay for making combs? If not what
> would be your suggestion? BTW (not being the original poster) this has
> been very interesting!
Now _combs_, that was something antler was used for, a lot. They are
one of the most common skeletal material artifacts around. Red deer
antler was very common for combs. A few were one-piece, but the
majority done in antler were "composite" combs built up out of smaller
pieces. There are a few rare examples with antler teeth and bone side
plates.
For combmaking, the only skeletal material that might be superior to
antler is horn, and that's a subject for debate.
--
al Thaalibi ---- An Crosaire, Trimaris
Ron Charlotte -- Gainesville, FL
afn03234 at afn.org
From: skwid at utdallas.edu (Evan P Langlinais)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: working with bone
Date: 25 Feb 1997 17:01:10 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Dallas
For some nifty diagrams of combs in various stages of construction, check
out JP Heather's "Goths in the 4th Century." Nice little book he
co-authored with Matthews.
--
| | |\ | | | ) Theudegisklos "Skwid" Sweinbrothar of the order Teuthoidia
|/| |\ |/ | |X| ( SKWID, Vulture V4 pilot
| | | | | | | ) Evan "Skwid" Langlinais
From: "Charlotte A. Gilmour" <rgbailey at aiinc.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Bones
Date: 10 Mar 97 18:56:09 GMT
Organization: Gilmour
covert <covert at Capital.Net> wrote:
> Seeking information on the drying, and preperation of small bones for
> theatrical costume bits.
Boil the meat from the bones (roasting burns/causes crumbling). Scrape the
bone with a knife until clean, you can use scewers or nutpicks to hollow
out the bone, then boil or soak (I think soaking is better) in bleach or
lemon juice, use a fine tooth saw to cut through the bone, use a drill for
holes etc. (be careful when you apply pressure though, you'll get the feel
of it).
Hope this helps :) and have fun!
Most Sincerely,
Tearlag Anna Ghille Mhuire
From: pts21 at aol.com (PTS21)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Bones
Date: 17 Mar 1997 06:59:38 GMT
I was doing some jewelry a few years ago , when a friend gave me a couple
of mouse skulls to make into earings. He told me he got the (already
dead, frozen ) mouse from a pet store where they were sold as snake? food.
To remove the mice from around the skulls, he soaked them in bleach until
the mouse bits went away and only the bones remained. I don't know if he
had to do any kind of scraping--I wasn't involved in it until the skulls
were already clean and dry. I do remember him telling me that he had to
try several times before getting it right because if you soak it too long,
the bones go away too. I imagine he also needed to rinse hem thoroughly
and let them dry. You might have better luck with some of the reaaly
excellent plastic repros that are on the market now.good luck
From: {Rmv-to-reply!}anaximander at geocities.com (Mike Huber)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Bones
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 16:22:55 GMT
Friznitx rec.org.sca ak 9 Mar 1997 13:42:16 GMT farblik
covert at Capital.Net (covert)}
> Seeking information on the drying, and preperation of small bones for
> thaetrical costume bits.
I've read that placing them on an ant hill is a good way to get them
clean.
---
Anaximander of Xidon
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/2111
mail: anaximander at geocities.com
From: neuro at nmia.com (Karen L Schumacher)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Bones
Date: 18 Mar 1997 17:22:55 GMT
Organization: New Mexico Internet Access
In my bio class in high school, we took the remains of the dearly departed
and placed them on anthills. Within a couple of weeks, we had full
skeletons, devoid of material. Then, to disinfect, we placed them in
bleach, which also changed the bone color from that weird yellow to white.
neuro at nmia.com
From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Bones
Date: 19 Mar 1997 00:31:57 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Karen L Schumacher (neuro at nmia.com) wrote:
: In my bio class in high school, we took the remains of the dearly departed
: and placed them on anthills. Within a couple of weeks, we had full
: skeletons, devoid of material. Then, to disinfect, we placed them in
: bleach, which also changed the bone color from that weird yellow to white.
I haven't seen the original message yet, so I don't know if there is more
to the question than the above. The technique will vary to some extent
depending on the nature of the bones (e.g. limb bones versus skulls) and
your available facilities. Professional skeletal-preparation facilities
generally use flesh-eating insects (there's a particular type of beetle
that works well) for the most efficient method. This is particularly
useful is the creature is fairly small and delicate, or for bones with
awkward crevices and cavities (e.g. skulls). However, few amateurs have
the continuous need sufficient to support a beetle colony. The anthill
method is likely to work nicely for a start, although I'd advise a slight
modification. If the flesh dries out too badly, the ants won't be able to
finish the work. I've had good luck with delicate pieces by putting them
in damp potting soil in a flower pot and _then_ placing them near the
ant-hill. Leave it undisturbed for 2-4 weeks before checking on the
progress. (Toss some garden soil into the mix and you'll get some good
bacterial action helping with the process, too.)
This sort of method works well when the animal is fairly small (e.g.
mouse, robin, etc.) or when you are able to partially de-flesh larger
items. If you are working with something significantly larger (e.g.,
squirrel, rabbit, etc.) -- especially if you simply want the larger bones
for decoration, rather than a full skeleton for a mount -- the method that
has worked best for me is to bury the animal in a fairly shallow pit lined
with aluminum foil (makes it easier to keep things in one place when
retrieving it) somewhere it won't get walked on (and _mark_ the spot
clearly) using good, biologically-active soil. Dig it up one to two months
later (depending on the size) and it should be reasonably well cleaned up,
although you'll still have some washing to do. Anything larger should be
de-fleshed as much as possible first.
Bleaching (in a weak bleach solution) is a good way to whiten and
de-grease the bones and eliminate any remaining odor -- but be very
careful not to over-bleach or the bones will crumble into a chalky powder.
(Guess how I found this out.) 24 hours in perhaps a 10% solution might be
a starting place for experimentation.
Did I mention that I had some peculiar hobbies _before_ I joined the SCA?
Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn
(no skeletons in _my_ closet -- they're all out on display)
From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Bones
Date: 31 Mar 1997 18:21:07 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Wilson Heydt (whheydt at slip.net) wrote:
: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones) wrote:
: >Bleaching (in a weak bleach solution) is a good way to whiten and
: >de-grease the bones and eliminate any remaining odor -- but be very
: >careful not to over-bleach or the bones will crumble into a chalky powder.
: >(Guess how I found this out.) 24 hours in perhaps a 10% solution might be
: >a starting place for experimentation.
: Since standard household bleach is a 5.25% solution of sodium hypochlorite,
: should I presume that, by "10% solution", you mean cutting the bleach 10:1,
: making it an 0.525% solution?
Since I was talking to a non-technical audience, I assumed that "10%
solution of bleach" would be interpreted as "buy commercial bleach; cut it
1:10". If I had _meant_ "10% solution of sodium hypochlorite" I would have
used the chemical name.
Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn
From: Charles L Knutson <knutsonc at freenet.msp.mn.us>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Bones
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 13:30:49 -0600
The quickest is just to boil 'em. But it's also not a recommended
indoor activity, I obtained some knucklebones from sheep and deer that
way for gaming purposes. I borrowed an old Coleman camp stove and did it
out in the garage. Then I bleached them lightly as the others have
suggested. Depending on how much disecting you do first, it can take
several hours to loosen all the tendons and ligments, but it can be
quicker than waiting for the bugs and other wee beasties to do their work,
and also insures none of the local dogs get to them first.
From: BlackCat <blackcat at blueneptune.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: More on bones!!
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 21:58:50 -0800
Yes, the methods perscribed by Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvyrn were
good ans sound, yet I have a couple of tidbits to add: hydrogen peroxide
works to whiten bone nicely without breaking it down like bleach
(although I admit bleach is quicker and easier). It always seems that
bleached bones eventually fall apart (at least in my experience). Also,
a set of dental tools is handy for cleaning out cavities in the scull.
Happy Hunting!
Lady Kelly Wynne Morrison of Dun Eistein
From: mjbr at tdk.dk (Michael Bradford)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Bones
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 11:24:33 GMT
Organization: Tele Denmark
hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones) wrote:
>snip
>Bleaching (in a weak bleach solution) is a good way to whiten and
>de-grease the bones and eliminate any remaining odor -- but be very
>careful not to over-bleach or the bones will crumble into a chalky powder.
>(Guess how I found this out.) 24 hours in perhaps a 10% solution might be
>a starting place for experimentation.
>snip
A good way of whitening/degreasing bone is boiling in soap solution.
Use a normal clothes washing powder.
Michael Bradford
Viking Group Wunjo
Denmark
mjbr at tdk.dk
From: jhrisoulas at aol.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Bones
Date: 21 Mar 1997 03:12:48 GMT
In article <5gr6ik$2s6 at gatekeeeper.teledanmark.dk>, mjbr at tdk.dk (Michael Bradford) writes:
>A good way of whitening/degreasing bone is boiling in soap solution.
>Use a normal clothes washing powder.
As someone who has processed over half a ton of "bovine ivory" (aka beef bones) for use as sword/knife grips...I suggest that you start out by placing the pieces on an ant hill....You will be amazed at how clean these little guys get a piece of bone..
Next boil the pieces in either chlorine bleach (the easiest of the two) solution of 5% by volume for 1/2 hour followed by a fresh water rinse..OR you can use sodium hydroxide (lye) solution of 2.5% by volume...I use the lye as it does a better job of getting that nice "bone" colour... rionse in fresh water and let dry..
What you end up with is a nice bone coloured bone..
Usually I place the resulting bone under a vacuum either plain or in an annaline dye solution for various colours.. The black/blues are very attractive and this worked very well when stabilized under vacuum with a cyanoacrylate....(this is sorta like industrial "super glue"..but far more nastier.....)... This results in a sealed surface that is more or less impervious to heat, sun, water...whatever and will take a polish like glass... I would go into further detail but I hold a patent on this process.
Actually the cleaning process is described in detail in my second book...The stabilization/colouration processes aren't..sorry.... I am not one to keep things secret, but in this case I am.......
Atar, Baron Bakhtar, OL
aka
JP Hrisoulas,
Las Vegas, NV
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 1997 12:28:02 -0500
From: Gunnora Hallakarva <gunnora at bga.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Antler Availability
The best way to get palmate antlers such as moose, red deer, fallow deek,
elk, etc. is to contact your local exotic game ranches. There are three
types: one is a zoo-like deal where tourists are allowed to drive through
and view the wildlife; the next is an animal sanctuary or preserve which
does not allow tourists, and the third is a commercial ranching venture.
We're fortunate in Texas to have a number of the commercial exotic game
ranches available. Some of them offer hunters an opportunity to hunt game
animals, others ranch them just like cattle for meat and hides. Both
varieties will usually sell you naturally shed antlers.
Also, don't neglect the taxidermy shops and game meat lockers in your
vicinity and in surrounding small towns. It is quite common for folks to
drop off their kill and then later realize they don't have the money to
reclaim their trophy. Often you can get quite a bargain on horn and
antler. Also, if the antlers are damaged, a hunter may choose not to keep
them, but if you are making stuff from them, broken antlers are great, and
these sometimes can be obtained for free.
The same principle, by the way, applies to sewing machines: never buy a
new sewing machine. Call around yoru local sewing machine repair shops and
ask if they have any repaired machines to sell... again, many people will
drop their machines off for repairs, then find they can't afford to get
them back and so abandon them.
Gunnora Hallakarva
From: powers at woodstock.cis.ohio-state.edu (william thomas powers)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Bone sewing kit, who can help?
Date: 22 Aug 1997 10:54:11 -0400
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science
>I recently decided I wanted my whole take-to-events-sewing-kit as period
>as I can get it. I decided I needed a box made out of bone to keep my
>needles in. I'm still looking for information on boneworking, both
>mundane and period, and I was wondering if anyone has come across what
>an actual period sewing kit consisted of? I'm thinking 12th century, but
>information about any time period is welcome.
>Gerbrich de Fries
Gracious Gerbrich; I would suggest reading through "Divers Arts" by
Theophilus for some suggestions on 12th century bone working. Remembering
that, like period cookbooks, some things get left out. (an example:
the polishing with sifted wood ashes and a woolen cloth. You get
a nasty mess if the bone is oily and the ashes dry; but if you add
water--not mentioned by Theophilus-- and use the cloth to "shoe-shine"
the bone you can get a polish that will have people accusing you of having
buffed it with modern equipment.)
Working bone is quite easy it can be carved, sanded, buffed, filed, sawn
drilled, turned on a lathe.
Many wood and metalworking tools can be used. (sawing: coping saw
or hacksaw; drilling: regular twist drillbits; filing: regular files--not
in the finest cuts as they tend to clog; sanding: regular sand paper)
Many small carving tools can be easily and cheaply made from masonary
nails. Bones can be obtained at a butcher, slaughterhouse, roadside cheaply.
Cleaning them is easy too.
Some people use a dremel with various burrs to carve. (I don't like it).
If you are grinding, sanding or turning: DANGER do *NOT* breath bone dust.
Use a dust mask and a dust collection system---vacuume cleaner/outside
with a breeze.
If you get any good documentation; please post it--I'm always ready
to add another project to the massive backlog!
wilelm the smith
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 23:44:32 -0500
From: "J. Drew Ragsdale" <jragsdal at sprynet.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Need source(s) for Antler
>I'm looking for sources of Red Deer, Elk or other large antlers. I
>desire such for making reproductions of Viking implements, in
>particular, combs. Any supplier information will be greatly
>appreciated.