corsets-msg - 5/6/07
Tudor and Elizabethian corsets. making them.
NOTE: See also these files: hoops-msg, underwear-msg, headgear-msg, linen-msg,
hose-msg, hose-manu-MA-art, ruffs-msg, clothing-L-msg.
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NOTICE -
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
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Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: Lisa.MacDougall at library.ubc.CA
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: corset advice
Date: 19 Oct 1993 14:39:03 -0400
Just a note:
Remember to remove your underwire bra before trying on your Tudor corset!
I now have one very flat bra :)
Bronwyn ferch Elys ap Llewellyn
Lionsgate (or is that Eisenmarch?), An Tir
From: corliss at hal.PHysics.wayne.EDU (David J. Corliss)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Undergarments
Date: 15 Sep 1994 10:12:05 -0400
Rosalyn Rice writes that "they didn't seem to wears bras", holding this garment
to be Victorian. Cat Okita replied that foundations were worn in late period
just the same.
A bra is a short form of a corset, supporting the bust but not confining the
waist. As an indication of this, in late period, many corsets were laced up the
front, so there wearer needed no assistance in getting them on. The laces would
be tied in a bow between in the center of the bust and the ends tucked into the
corset. Often times, the ends of these laces would be decorated, just as laces
for any other purpose. Thus, this pretty little bow became a standard part of
the fashion of the corset. It may still be found on many bras today, long after
the original purpose has been forgotten, and still displays the ancestry of the
bra from a garment of stays and laces.
.......this has been a public service message from the Middle Kingdom
College of Sciences........
.......which is looking for some well qualified
person or persons to write A&S crtiteria for the engineering aspects of
costuming: hopefully, this will help to bring work on foundations and other
undergarments out of the closet and into a format where all who desire can
easily see the _structural_ aspects of costuming.
From: liversen at physiology.medsch.ucla.edu (Lori Iversen)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Corset question
Date: 24 Aug 1995 20:11:09 GMT
Organization: UCLA
In article <41gpt0$ioi at nnrp.ucs.ubc.ca>, johnna at unixg.ubc.ca (Johnna E Fisher) says:
>
>I was wondering if it is possible to adequately tighten one's own corset
>without any help. Could anyone offer suggestions? There have been many
>times when I needed to put on my corset in order to check proper fit of
>my sewing projects and there was no one about to help. I find it almost
>impossible to tighten the silly thing as much as I need by myself. There
>must be a trick to this, right...?
>
>Morgaine
Weeellll...it's not really our period, although it is *a* period:
install a fastening busk in the front of your corset, a la mid-to-
late Victorians. They should be available through the same people
who sell you your corset stays. That way, you only need assistance
once; thereafter you can leave the back laces tied and simply hook
yourself up (and then, at the end of the day, you get to literally
blow the bolts -- almost better than sex!). If your body size
changes a bit, get help to realign your laces.
Cheers,
Alexis
% Lori Iversen %
% The Valley, CA %
From: bjm10 at cornell.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Corset question
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 11:43:23
Organization: Cornell University
>In article <41gpt0$ioi at nnrp.ucs.ubc.ca>, johnna at unixg.ubc.ca (Johnna E Fisher)
>says:
>>
>>I was wondering if it is possible to adequately tighten one's own corset
>>without any help. Could anyone offer suggestions? There have been many
My wife did the following: Use VERY extra-long string on the corset. Put
it on backwards and semi-tighten it. Slide it around, grab the strings, and
make sure they cross each other after coming out the bottom. Pull forward
and tie in front. Tuck the string in under the corset.
This works for the fairly merciful corsets of the 18th, 17th, and 16th
centuries. It can't be done for Victorian corsets.
That's another thing: Do NOT use the standards of the Victorian hourglass
figure for an Elizabethan corset. Also, portraits of Elizabeth are hardly a
good thing to go by. The lines of her form were probably "enhanced" by the
artist, not to mention her sharp facial features lead me to believe that she
had an unusually slender form to begin with.
A great deal of the effect of tiny-waistedness is derived from the extension
of the bottom of the corset into the "skirt" area in the front, coupled with
the hoops bringing the hips out real wide-like. The eye is drawn along the
inverted triangle and an optical illusion of greater slenderness is produced
if done properly (don't ask me how to make it--I just watch women get into
and out of the dresses).
From: Barb at DISTANT-CARAVANS.reno.nv.us (Barbara Morgan)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Corset question
Date: 26 Aug 1995 06:32:08 GMT
Organization: Great Basin Internet Services, Reno, NV
>>In article <41gpt0$ioi at nnrp.ucs.ubc.ca>, johnna at unixg.ubc.ca (Johnna E Fisher)
>>says:
>>>
>>>I was wondering if it is possible to adequately tighten one's own corset
>>>without any help. Could anyone offer suggestions? There have been many
>
>In article <bjm10.72.000BB973 at cornell.edu>, bjm10 at cornell.edu
(Bryan J. Maloney) says
>My wife did the following: Use VERY extra-long string on the corset.
>Put it on backwards and semi-tighten it. Slide it around, grab the strings,
>and make sure they cross each other after coming out the bottom. Pull
>forward and tie in front. Tuck the string in under the corset.
My Lady,
One of thing you might consider in the future is building the corset into
the bodic so you can get into it by yourself.
It kind of depends on how your figure shapes up. I am not blessed with an
over abundance bust.
On my most sucessful Elizabethian gown I built the corset into the bodic
by adding several layers of stiff interfacing.
Then I added a stomacher that attached in a V in the front. On each side
of the V there are large pant hooks and eyes. Hooks on the bodic, eyes
on the stomacher. Inside of the stomacher there are two layers of plastic
needle point canvas. The gown also has 5 of the same large pant hooks on the
bodice and corrasponding eyes on the waist band on the skirt, to fight
gabitis. All of the applique and beading where done before the bodice was
assembled.
"If you want to take a look at it and have access to a web viewer see:"
http://www.greatbasin.com/~caravan/burglg.gif
I am not the Lady in the photo. Alas I have yet to figure out how to take
good pictures of myself from across the room.
The hat was constructed with plastic needle point canvas, duck tape and
wire. "Let's hear it for duck tape."
I know this is not the most athentic way of constructing a bodic but I seem
to have misplaced my maid and my Lord Husband is not always around when I
want to change my dress.
Amaryllis
aka: Barb Morgan
Barb at DISTANT-CARAVANS.reno.nv.us
http://www.greatbasin.com/~caravan/
From: tigger at fastlane.net (Kim Ann Innes)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Corset question
Date: 24 Aug 1995 23:33:12 GMT
Organization: National Knowledge Network
> johnna at unixg.ubc.ca (Johnna E Fisher) writes:
> I was wondering if it is possible to adequately tighten one's own corset
> without any help. Could anyone offer suggestions? There have been many
> times when I needed to put on my corset in order to check proper fit of
> my sewing projects and there was no one about to help. I find it almost
> impossible to tighten the silly thing as much as I need by myself. There
> must be a trick to this, right...?
>
> Morgaine
Morgaine:
It's not really period, but I made my newest corset with the lacing on the left
front instead of the back. That way I can get myself in & out alone. I didn't
want the lacing in the center front because I wanted it as smooth as possible.
This means that I can actually dress myself completely in garb that has
front-opening bodices.
I also sew lacing (shoelaces) to the corset around the waistband so that
I can tie the underskirt to the corset; it prevents the underskirt from drooping
below the hemline of the overskirt (and I always tie the overskirt to the inside
of the bodice for the same reason).
Kim (tigger at fastlane.net)
For needlework, costuming, & heraldry books
and trim for costumes/sewing, visit my homepages:
http://www.fastlane.net/homepages/tigger/
From: brettwi at ix.netcom.com(Brett Williams )
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Women's Costuming
Date: 2 Jan 1996 19:22:05 GMT
Organization: Netcom
In <4ca95f$qfq at news1.netzone.com> quilter at netzone.com (Sharon Bolton)
writes:
>Are stays worn under the bodice?
They're worn by anyone with pretensions to class and fashion-- meaning
that any woman with aspirations of being termed a 'goodwife', as
opposed to one only a step away from parish charity, would have some
kind of stiffening in their bodice/undergarments.
The popular notion that a corset is a Garment From Hell, designed by
Torquemada and his minions, is Victorian. It is not possible to
tightlace in a Tudor corset.
Some years ago I wrote a Tournaments Illuminated article on drafting a
Tudor/Elizabethan/Cavalier corset from one's own measurements. I
personally don't believe in squishing oneself into a corset 'sized' for
a differently-shaped body than that of mine own. I've worn my corset
for 14 to 18 hour days and have been comfortable. I laughingly
described a Tudor corset to a friend of mine last Saturday as the
period equivalent of a Wonderbra-- it's designed to compress and
uplift, but not to torture. I actually find my corset more comfortable
than an underwire bra.
ciorstan
From: jpathomas at aol.com (JPAThomas)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: re: garb: tudor corsets???
Date: 22 Mar 1996 03:17:32 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
There's not much information for as early as you want, (check Nora Waugh,
_Corsets and Crinolines_) but the shape is the same as the later Tudor
corset. Our current concept of cutting edge technology is Jean Hunnisett,
_Period Costume for Stage and Screen, 1600-1800_ (the green one); I made
one from her instructions last fall and I'm very happy with it.
Best of luck,
Mistress Angelina Nicollette de Beaumont
Lyondemere, Caid
From: parkerd at mcmail.cis.McMaster.CA (Diana Parker)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: garb: tudor corsets???
Date: 26 Mar 1996 23:56:43 -0500
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada.
JPAThomas <jpathomas at aol.com> wrote:
>There's not much information for as early as you want, (check Nora Waugh,
>_Corsets and Crinolines_) but the shape is the same as the later Tudor
>corset. Our current concept of cutting edge technology is Jean Hunnisett,
> _Period Costume for Stage and Screen, 1600-1800_ (the green one); I made
>one from her instructions last fall and I'm very happy with it.
Hmmmm, the original request has faded off my system, so I may be
right off track... but for mid to late underpinnings, I like
"Underneath It All" & "European Costuming."
Neither one provides actual patterns, but each provides
construction details & drawings. UIA shows photographs of some surviving
examples.
cheers
Tabitha (sorry, can't find either one right now on the bookshelves, so I
can't give author or publisher information in this post. If you
can't locate it, email will likely spur me to look harder.)
----------------------------------------------
Diana Parker parkerd at mcmaster.ca
Security Services CUC - 201
McMaster University (905) 525-9140 (x24282)
From: Drea Leed <aleed at dnaco.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Corsetry Web Page
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 22:52:43 +0000
Organization: EriNet Online 513 436-1700 (Voice)
Just thought I'd drop a note to all the good gentles on the Rialto: I
have a web page up and running which exhaustively covers the subject of
the Elizabethan corset: period materials and modern substitutes, sources
for boning, how to make a pattern that fits, and all sorts of other odds
and ends. It also has some rudimentary (and ever-expanding) information
on basic Elizabethan costume. If you're interested, check it out and
tell me what you think!
It's at:
http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/
Drea Leed (Drea di' Pellegrini)
From: tdewinter at aol.com (TDEWINTER)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: corsetry question
Date: 24 Jun 1996 09:27:11 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
In article <4out3m$43h at nw101.infi.net>, lyon at infi.net at infi.net (Lyon)
writes:
>Can anyone tell me when the corsetcame into to use in France?
>Earlier or later than England?
>Giovanna Mancuso
>andreah at cpsnet.com
According to Mistress Louise of Woodsholme, the earliest existing *corset*
is from England, from the Elizabethan period, and is the only one from
this period.
Apparently, it is unknown when corsets became boned (not just heavy
fabric), and when they started being worn. If you look at old manuscripts
you can see that many of the women's breasts are up in a place that
breasts don't normal go. This would tend to suggest that they were
wearing some sort of corset-like garment from, at least, the 13th century
onward (in France and England). Unfortunately there is no documentation
to prove it.
Hope this helps, and if anyone has documentation to the contrary, please,
please, please let us know.
Countess Tristana de Winter (c.k.a. Trista)
Barony of Gyldenholt
Caid
From: gfrose at cotton (Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: corsetry question
Date: 24 Jun 1996 23:39:50 GMT
Organization: Not Much
Greetings, all, from Katerine Rountre.
Countess Tristana de Winter writes:
: Apparently, it is unknown when corsets became boned (not just heavy
: fabric), and when they started being worn. If you look at old manuscripts
: you can see that many of the women's breasts are up in a place that
: breasts don't normal go. This would tend to suggest that they were
: wearing some sort of corset-like garment from, at least, the 13th century
: onward (in France and England). Unfortunately there is no documentation
: to prove it.
Actually, what it suggests to me, is that they were wearing kirtles.
Kirtles are described in surviving literature. The term referes to
different things at different times, but at least part of the time,
it refers to an undergarment worn between a loose bottom layer and
the "official" underdress, that is closely fitted in the bodice.
I have made such layers, and routinely wear them, sometimes _as_ the
underdress, since I'm not quite up to making four layers for normal
wear, and sometimes as just a bodice with three layers.
In my experiece, careful fitting together with multiple layers is
quite sufficient to, er, maintain even the, er, amplest upper
storey.
I see no reason to suppose boning, or anything we normally would call
corsetry.
Cheers,
-- Katerine/Terry
From: foxd at silver.ucs.indiana.edu (daniel fox)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: corsetry question
Date: 5 Jul 1996 05:00:27 GMT
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington
In article <4rhdk2$avk at newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
TDEWINTER <tdewinter at aol.com> wrote:
>In article <4r6rds$snm at everest.iserv.net>, route66 at iserv.net (Gary J.
>Wolverton) writes:
>
>> Gentle Lady,
>>
>> Recalling my somewhat limited (if not non-existent) knowledge of
>>feminine undergarments, speaking of the bosom being located in an
>>unnatural location, I believe you may be referring to a *butsier* (sp)
>>instead of a corset. I was always under the impression that the corset
>>was simply and specifically for slimming the waist-line whereas the
>>bustier came later in the time-line and was a combination of a corset
>>and a braziere. Of course, these are only my humble nonsensical
>>ramblings and could very well be in error. But it is food for thought.
>>
>>G. Wolverton
>>from the heart of the swamp within the silver swords region of the
>>Middle Realm.
>>G. Wolverton
>>Silver Swords | Middle Kingdom
>>
>My Good Lord,
>(this is a form of address, not an exclamation)
>
>"Corset" is usually thought of as a heavily boned piece of heavy material
>(usually worn in the 15th and 16th century) that flattened the breasts and
>shaped the torso,usually into a cylinder shape. As I used it in my first
>post, it referred to the above, as well as referring to the unknown
>garments worn in earlier centuries.
>
>The bustier is, I believe, a relatively modern term for a demi-corset
>attached to a bra.
>
>Again, I believe the unnatural placement of breasts in the paintings is
>due to some sort of corset, but not a bustier, since that came much later.
>
>Hope this helps your knowledge of women's undergarments :-)
>
>In service,
>C. Tristana de Winter
>Caid
Want to confuse matters a little further.
Corset or Corsetus is referred to in 13th and 14th century English and French
Royal Accounts. This lead early costume researchers to assume that they
were the same garment used from the 1500s. (BTW, the 16th century term for
what we call a corset was "a pair of bodies").
However, Newton in _Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince_ and Kay
Staninland in "The Medieval Corset" in _Costume_ #3, 1969, have pointed out
that the fabrics ordered for the garment include velvet, fur for lining and
ve often embroidery. (One is described as having ladies in boats fishing
for hearts stitched on it.)
Current theory, last I heard, is that the 'Corsettus' was actually an over
gown or an oval cloak.
Go figure.
Audelindis de RHeims, OL
From: cyberspace at midlink.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: corsetry question
Date: 7 Jul 1996 00:54:10 GMT
Organization: Pennsylvania Online [Usenet News Server for Hire]
<heavy-duty snip>
>You got "bustier" right -- but the term "corset" was not I believe
>used in our period. Arnold refers to the dissected corset-like object
>in "Patterns of Fashion" as a "pair of bodies" (i.e., a bodice?), and
>subsequent to that the boned-to-death support garment worn over the
>chestal area became known as "stays" at least through the early
>20th century, when I note you could purchase a set of "training stays"
>for your 10-year-old daughter out of the Sears, Roebuck catalog.
>All of which is not to say that the term "corset" wasn't used
>simultaneously with "stays," at least after the 18th century, but
>I've never seen a Renaissance-era breast smoosher referred to
>as a "corset" per se.
>
>-- Alexis
In my research, I have come across--and I'm sure the docs are in one of
my many boxes--a reference to a medieval undergarment that is made of a
"pair of leather bodys." It is 2 pieces of leather laced at front and
back, in much the same way as a "wench bodice," and used to shape/support
the chest. It is also mentioned that poor women would wear a chemise, an
old skirt and their bodice while working and save their good
overgowns/tunics for special occasions. I even found a 14th cent.
painting of a sheepherdess in a bodice, chemise and skirt. I forget the
name of the painting (sheepish grin), but it's out there.
In service to the Dream,
Erzsebet
From: liversen at physiology.medsch.ucla.edu (Lori Iversen)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Corsets and Clothes
Date: 9 Jul 1996 21:12:04 GMT
Organization: University of California, Los Angeles
In article <31E1F4F7.577D at airmail.net>, Amber Wilkinson <fredw at airmail.net> says:
>
>Having recently decided to save my sanity and just to to either Tudor
>or Elizabethen English persona and clothes, so as to be Ren Faire (my
>personal leaning) appropriate, I need a few pieces of information. What
>is the difference between a Tudor corset and an Elizabethan corset?
Primarily the length: if you compare Tudor portraits (Holbein, etc.)
with late Elizabethan works, you'll note that the Tudor ladies' bodices
stop at the natural waist with little if any downward-dipping point.
As Elizabeth's reign drew on, ladies' bodices assumed rather ridiculous
lengths: long-waisted at best, drawn down to a grossly exaggerated
point in the front at worst.
IMHO, the Tudor line is much more graceful (and comfortable!), while
the late Elizabethan line is flashy and very physically restrictive
(all of which is not to deny that flashy and restrictive can be
very effective!)
>Which one's gowns look better on large (180 lb, 40DD) women?
"Better" is a relative term. Both provide pretty much the same bust
lift. If you're thick-waisted and not happy about it, I would suggest
the longer line. If you've an hourglass figure, the Tudor line would
show it off very well.
-- Alexis
From: lkl <mite1 at aloha.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: corsetry question
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 19:13:19 +0000
Organization: Hawaii OnLine - Honolulu, HI
> speaking of corsetry...anyone know where i can get a pattern for one..
> I've only been able to find Victorian ones.
For an Elizabethan corset I've made a pattern using the instructions
by Drea Leed at
http://elizabethancostume.net">http://elizabethancostume.net/ [Link updated 5/6/07 - Stefan]
Instructions are quite complete and are easy to follow.
From: foxd at silver.ucs.indiana.edu (daniel fox)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Corsets and Clothes
Date: 23 Jul 1996 05:11:23 GMT
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington
Nora Waugh's Excellent book _Corset and Crinoline_ has been reissued. I
don't know the ISBN, but it has been sighted on the shelves of a Barnes
and Nobel locally.
Audelindis de Rheims
From: foxd at ezinfo.ucs.indiana.edu (Daniel Boyd Fox)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: ribs and corsets
Date: 20 Jan 1997 04:19:45 GMT
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington
<ashoni at aol.com> wrote:
>Shouldn't we first define what the term 'corset' means? Especially since
>there is a text which describes a man riding through the streets of town
>in a fur-lined corset.
In _Costume_ #3, 1969 there is an article by Kay Staniland, entitled,
"The Medieval Corset". The term is used in 13th and 14th century
accounts--most notably the English and French Royal Accounts--a number of
times. The "Corsettus" is usually made of heavy fabric, such as velvet
or wool, is often fur lined and frequently embroidered. Best guess is
that it was either an overgown of some kind, or an oval cloak.
However in the 1790's, Strutt, who wrote one of the first books on the
history of English Costume saw the reference and, using an unrelated 12th
century illumination of a demon in a tight-fitting dress with folds that
somewhat resembled 18th century corset stays, declared something to the
effect that "Medieval Women bought their beauty dear even as is done now
by tight lacing." As with a number of Strutt's errors this was picked up
as gospel by Fairholt and later costume researchers and has been repeated
ever since. In the early 1950's Evans in _Dress in Medieval France_
mentions that this was wrong, Newton in _Fashion in the Age of the Black
Prince_ questions this, and finally Staniland came out with the above item.
Which is why I distrust most costume books written prior to WWII.
Mistress Audelindis de Rheims
From: brewstir at mindspring.com (Bruce Chirrey)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Corset boning suggestions?
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 21:15:48 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises
>I'm working on a corset (AlterYears pattern w/tabs) and I'm hoping to
>find an idea for a good boning material without having to mail order
>(expensive) spring steel boning. It needs to be a metal that doesn't
>rust, since this corset is going to have to be washed sometimes. It also
>needs to be strong! (I'm 185 lbs, DD cup size.) Lightweight bones would
>just bend. I'm hoping to have the corset for a while if it turns out
>well, but since it's a first try, I don't want to spend a lot on it. :)
Greetings,
If you have hanging file folders handy, take the metal pieces out of
the top of the folder, break off the ends and file them a bit. To
prevent them from rusting, dip them in a plastic coating substance
that some people use to coat tools. You can find it at your local
hardware store under the brand name of Plasti-dip for about $10.00.
I've found the dip to work better than the spray-on.
I know this sounds like quite a process, but I've used it many times
and have been pleased with the results. The metal stays give plenty
of support especially with the added strength of the plastic.
Comtesse Isabel de Ponthieu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: piusma at umdnj.edu (Matthew Pius)
Subject: Re: Corset boning suggestions?
Organization: Univ. of Medicine and Dentistry of NJ
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 23:28:51 GMT
Amber Wilkinson <amberw at onramp.net> writes:
>I'm working on a corset (AlterYears pattern w/tabs) and I'm hoping to
>find an idea for a good boning material without having to mail order
>(expensive) spring steel boning. It needs to be a metal that doesn't
>rust, since this corset is going to have to be washed sometimes.
I'm not familiar with the pattern you're using, but you ought to
be able to construct your corset so that one end of each casing is open
when you've finished the whole thing. That way, you can put in the
boning last, hand-baste the casings closed (or hand-sew depending on how
strong you think your basting will be). This allows you to take the
boning out when you wash the corset. It really shouldn't be more than a
couple minutes' worth of work to pick the basting out and another couple
to sew it back on. Of course, the more casings you use, the more work it
becomes, but you're better off doing this if you use metal, just in case
"rust-proof" isn't.
>It also
>needs to be strong! (I'm 185 lbs, DD cup size.) Lightweight bones would
>just bend. I'm hoping to have the corset for a while if it turns out
>well, but since it's a first try, I don't want to spend a lot on it. :)
I've been told by someone (forgot who) that you can use the stuff
you would use to weave your own wicker basket. You need a small handful
of 'sticks' for each casing, but they are apparently sturdy and stand up
to water relatively well (I haven't seen the corset supposedly made this
way, so I won't vouch for its effectiveness). You ought to be able to
find this stuff at a crafts store.
Also, the woman teaching a course at the most recent East Kingdom
University suggested using the bottoms of thick plastic hangers. But
make sure you have a file or something to smooth off the cut ends, or
they'll eventually rip through the fabric.
-Ibrahim al-Rashid
(mka Matt Pius)
From: "Perkins" <lwperkins at snip.net>
Subject: Re: Corset boning suggestions?
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Date: 16 Feb 97 15:53:43 GMT
Lines: 38
Matthew Pius <piusma at umdnj.edu> wrote in article <E5M983.CtG at umdnj.edu>...
> Amber Wilkinson <amberw at onramp.net> writes:
> >I'm working on a corset (AlterYears pattern w/tabs) and I'm hoping to
> >find an idea for a good boning material without having to mail order
> >(expensive) spring steel boning. It needs to be a metal that doesn't
> >rust, since this corset is going to have to be washed sometimes.
Ibrahim al-Rashid suggested:
> Also, the woman teaching a course at the most recent East Kingdom
> University suggested using the bottoms of thick plastic hangers. But
> make sure you have a file or something to smooth off the cut ends, or
> they'll eventually rip through the fabric.
I just wanted to put in a personal plug for this method. I take the
cheapest plastic dollar-store hangars I can find, and dip the end I'm
planning to cut in very hot water to soften the plastic, then cut it with
those scissors that are advertised as being able to cut pennies (but any
sturdy pair of kitchen shears work) The plastic deforms a bit on the end
when you cut it, rounding it, so I've never had trouble with it poking out
of the top of the casing. I do use bias tape casing and double stitch
across the top like this=== to reinforce it. Because the hangars are
thick, I use a zipper foot to do the last sealing-in stitching (I hate hand
sewing) The zipper foot lets me sew very close to the thick hanger.
Zipper foots are also good if you must sew alongside of bulky trim or areas
where the fabric overlaps and is very thick.
Another period stiffening that looks interesting but I haven't tried (I
saw a picture of this in Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion 1550 to 1600--I
don't have the book in front of me but it is wonderful) is to use layers of
reeds sewn between the inner lining and the outer fabric. The reeds were
laid down in the same direction we've been doing corset boning, as a sort
of "v" pattern with the point of the v being the center front of the
corset. In theory this should be both light and stiff. The hard part is
finding the reeds....
Please post to keep us informed on what you used. I'm interested to see
how wicker or basket raffia would work.
yours, Ester
From: "Kurt Ryder" <kryder at ix.netcom.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Corset boning suggestions?
Date: 16 Feb 1997 16:27:05 GMT
Amber Wilkinson <amberw at onramp.net> wrote in article
> find an idea for a good boning material without having to mail order
> (expensive) spring steel boning. It needs to be a metal that doesn't
> rust,
I use 1/2 inch steel strapping used commercially on wooden crates. I
usually manage to get this strapping for free! (Used, no big deal to bend
a few dents out with a pair of pliers and a hammer). It's painted black,
and doesn't rust if you coat the ends with something after you cut it to
size. It's the same stuff the military uses on boxes that they ships
overseas. I used tool handle liquid grip dip to coat the ends of one set
of boning, and thought it worked fine. If you wanted to be more period, I
suppose you could use wax.
I wimped out, though, and made my corsets so that I can remove the boning
for washing. If this is your first attempt at a corset, I have a few words
of advice: Don't make the thing too tight. Snug is good, but don't try to
reduce your waistline significantly. IMHO corsets for most of SCA period
were meant to give your bodice a certain line, not majorly reduce your
overall girth (Which probably doesn't need reducing anyway! :-} ).
Lumilla, Bjornsborg, Ansteorra
From: Mara Riley <corbie at radix.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Corset boning suggestions?
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 21:32:35 +0000
When I made my corset, I used some thin plastic strips I got from MJ
Designs (a crafts chain near me), in the model-building section. This
section also has metal -- copper, alluminum, etc., as well as balsa wood
and other stuff used to make dioramas for model railroads.
The plastic strips came in various sizes and thicknesses, so I was able
to pick the most appropriate weight and thickness for what I had in
mind. I also bought a wider sheet to make the busk out of.
It's pretty cheap, too. I don't think I spent more than $20 on
materials, including the boning, cloth, grommets and binding.
So, take a look at the local hobby store before going for the hack saw
blades!
Cheers,
Corbie
From: Rebekah Sandell <sandell.rebekah at ssd.loral.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Corset Boning
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 10:42:45 -0800
Organization: Advanced Systems
Amber Wilkinson <amberw at onramp.net> writes:
>I'm working on a corset (AlterYears pattern w/tabs) and I'm hoping to
>find an idea for a good boning material without having to mail order
>(expensive) spring steel boning. It needs to be a metal that doesn't
>rust, since this corset is going to have to be washed sometimes.
It depends on how buxom you are. I'm rather and have found that hacksaw
blades double wrapped in strapping tape work quite well. I was told
about this alternative to the Plus Cher commercial boning by a couple of
other buxom types here in West. Hope this helps.
rebekah
From: "Charlotte A. Gilmour" <rgbailey at aiinc.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Corset Boning
Date: 20 Feb 1997 20:24:57 GMT
> It must really be painful if one of those hacksaw blades manages
> to wiggle it's way out of the strapping tape!!! Has anyone been
> "surgically altered" during the wearing of these corsets? :) *grin*
> Speaking as one of those buxom lasses, are there any other alternatives?
> I would rather prefer to avoid anything that can cut me back! :)
>
> Rainault
Upon reading some of the posts, there have been some pretty good
ideas/alternatives and actually using the hacksaw blade (although I have
never seen it done) sounds like it works (I have many years of sewing
experience), perhaps if one thought that the strapping tape wouldn't be
enough to cover the blades effectively, you could use the liquid dip that
hardens to a soft plastic coating (available at hardware stores to dip tool
handles in) again, I have never used this product myself (it might be to
thick in the end to coat the entire 'boning') but I have heard repeatedly
good things about this product. Maybe you would want to experiment a
little.
Most Sincerely,
Charlotte Gilmour
(Tearlag Ghille Mhuire)
From: jotl at owens.ridgecrest.ca.us (James of the Lake)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Corset Boning
Date: 25 Feb 1997 04:06:40 GMT
Organization: Barony of Naevehjem
Jas. Townsend & Sons, Inc., offers metal boning for corsets. Their
1996-Spring 1997 catalog has them for 35 cents each: 1/4" wide; white with
coated tips; available in 1/2" increments, 4" to 13-1/2" long.
1-800-338-1665. I have found the company to be very professional and
responsive to phone-in orders.
James
jotl at ridgecrest.ca.us
From: kkozmins at mtholyoke.edu (Kim C Kozminski)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Corset Boning
Date: 24 Feb 1997 22:37:21 GMT
Organization: Mount Holyoke College
I have a former apprentice who used hacksaw blades- she had a
friend grind the teeth off and round the ends. If you don't own a
grinder or know anyone who does, look in the phone-book for someone who
sharpens tools or saw-blades, they probably wouldn't charge you much to
de-tooth hack-saw blades.
If you use a commercial coating liquid make sure you use it in a
well ventalated area, preferably with a resperator. This stuff is HIGHLY
toxic, and can do serious damage if inhaled over a prolonged period of time.
You may also want to try placing your boning diagonally across
the bust instead of perpendicular. I've had good luck using a fan-shaped
boning pattern on larger busted ladies, and using rigalene (nylon boning)
and a tightly woven fabric (twill or light-wieght denim is good).
Good luck!
Mistress Roen (KC Kozminski-costumer, Mt Holyoke College)
From: katarndt at aol.com (KatArndt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Corset Boning
Date: 26 Feb 1997 02:31:22 GMT
In my Shire the word is that Industrial Zip Ties work well as inexpeensive
corset boning and are certainly not as dangerous as blades.
From: "K.C. Kozminski" <kkozmins at mtholyoke.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Corset Boning
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 11:58:05 -0500
Organization: Mount Holyoke College
> Sorry, but that sounds really silly. 1) it's too expensive 2) it's too much
> work 3) it is dangerous. If you're going to grind spring steel, just buy a
> plumbers coil of 1/4" spring steel. it's easy to cut and fast to grind the
> tips to keep them from ripping through the casing. It's also cheaper than
> most store-bought boning
Where do you buy your Hacksaw blades?!!! They are much cheaper and
lighter than spring steel, and already cut to length
> > : You may also want to try placing your boning diagonally across
> : the bust instead of perpendicular. I've had good luck using a fan-shaped
> : boning pattern on larger busted ladies, and using rigalene (nylon boning)
>
> There's a good reason why rigelene isn't used in any serious corsetry: it will
> eventually form to your shape (will take 3 weeks with light wear) and won't
> help much in actually nipping you.
Have you ever seen real whale or feather bonning? I have taken
actual pieces out of antique clothing. It is very flexible, The
rigidness of the corset is due to the engineering. In my reseach I have
found very few examples of of steel bonning in pre 1600's corsets. The
solid metal corsets most experts agree were for orthepedic purposes.
My corsets have rigaleen in casings with a wood busk in the center,
they have lasted a decade without deforming. Also, the pre-1600's corsets
were not ment to nip the waist so much as flatten and push up the bust and give an all over cylindrical
shape. Serious waist reduction only comes from wearing corsets from an
early age. Both Jean Hunnisett and Janet Arnold recomend rigaleene, they
are serious enough for me.
KC Kozminski, MFA, Costumer, Designer and lecturer>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Corset Boning
From: una at bregeuf.stonemarche.org (Honour Horne-Jaruk)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 97 09:16:02 EST
Margo Anderson <Wander at hooked.net> writes:
> K.C. Kozminski wrote:
> In my reseach I have
> > found very few examples of of steel bonning in pre 1600's corsets. The
> > solid metal corsets most experts agree were for orthepedic purposes.
>
> Most of these experts were writing at a time when it wasn't acceptable
> to mention what many people believe was the true purpose of the all
> metal corsets: fetish wear.
>
> Margo Anderson
Respected friend:
Of all the (less than a dozen?) metal corsets still around
from pre-1600 Europe, only two are attached to specific names. One
belonged to (forgotten female name) Cruikback, one to a Prince of
Hungary who was still being carried at nine. Hmmm.
(A third is attributed, in legend, to an attendant of
Queen Berengaria - Richard I's "absent Queen". The woman was a
severe hunchback. It's very unlikely that it was hers, but that
they believed it says something about who _they_ thought would
use one.)
Alizaunde, Demoiselle de Bregeuf
Una Wicca (That Pict)
(Friend) Honour Horne-Jaruk, R.S.F.
From: Cynthia Virtue <cvirtue at well.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Corset Boning
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 17:42:11 -0800
Genevieve asked about boning types, and also strategy.
Speaking in sweeping generalizations, the objective of corsetry during
the SCA's period requires *straight* corsets -- ones that do not adapt
curvaceously to the figure, but produce more of a cone-shaped
silhouette. This is where renaissance differs from the corsets we see
in Gone With The Wind and other more recent eras that used corsets.
With that in mind, a metal that bends a lot is not desirable; you want
to achive a smooth vertical or cylindrical effect, rather than an
hourglass figure.
The bundles of reeds method (these are thin reeds, the size of
broomstraws, btw) as shown in Janet Arnold's books will give a little
bend, so that you can pick things up on the floor, but won't conform to
your body shape much. Yes, you can't wash it -- but since you would be
wearing a shift underneath, and a dress over-top (at least one) you
probably won't need to wash it at all.
Metal strapping is often used by costumers instead of buying expensive
prepared "boning" and dipping it in plastic merely makes the ends less
sharp -- so that they don't tear through the fabric -- not so that they
are more stiff.
I'm sure there are folks that will be able to add to this significantly,
so sit back and watch the information roll in!
---
Lady Cynthia du Pre Argent, Minister of Silly Hats, Crosston
From: Laura McKinstry <dalm at why.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Corset boning suggestions?
Date: Sun, 02 Mar 1997 11:29:52 -0600
For those who are willing to use modern methods (after all, it doesn't
show, and we're trying to LOOK period, unless you're talking A&S
project) is standard, run of the mill, fabric stroe plastic boning. It
comes in long strips, rolled and hung from the wall in plastic bags.
Very washable. Not as stiff as plastic hangers, if extreme stiffness is
crucial, but I've found it to be just what I'm looking for, meself.
--------------------------------------------------
Laura McKinstry aka Lark of Cire Freunlaven
Dallas, TX Steppes, Ansteorra
dalm at why.net
--------------------------------------------------
From: Mara Riley <corbie at radix.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Corset boning suggestions?
Date: Sun, 02 Mar 1997 19:40:29 +0000
I found some stiff plastic strips (polystyrene, I think) at the crafts
and hobby store (MJ Designs), in the model-builder's section (you know,
for building dioramas and model railroad landscapes). It came in
varying thicknesses and is very workable; I rounded the corners with a
pair of scissors so the plastic wouldn't poke me. I think I paid about
$1.00 per package of a dozen or so strips. I think I used three
packages, and had a few leftover strips. I also bought one wider strip
for the busk.
The problem I have with fabric store boning is that it comes in large
rolls -- so it curves! Which means that your corset will either be
concave or convex; even alternating the strips so that one curves in and
the next curves out doesn't totally solve this problem. It's also
rather expensive, compared with the polystyrene.
Cheers,
Mara/Corbie
From: camino.ppp <camino at calweb.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Corset boning suggestions?
Date: 4 Mar 1997 04:40:33 GMT
sthomas728 at aol.com (SThomas728) writes:
> I have to qualms about using plastic boning, but I have heard that metal
> boning is better as it shapes more, while the plastic is straight all the
> way. Have any thoughts on this?
> --Genevieve
I've used both, and the metal definitely retains its shape better. I
used the metal strapping that hardware stores get off their pallets.
They'll usually let me root through their discards to retrieve it.
I then put "Dips-It" plastic on the ends (after rounding them), and
make the channels that they are in easy to open on one end so that I
can pull them out before washing so that they don't rust.
Hope this helps.
Rhiannan
From: ailith at cannet.com at cannet.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Corset boning suggestions?
Date: 8 Mar 1997 00:39:14 GMT
sthomas728 at aol.com (SThomas728) writes:
>I was told putting the "Dips It" on the entire piece of metal boning would
>render it washable and would not have to be removed. Have any thoughts?
>--Genevieve
I used to put it on the ends-I don't bother any more. I have had a number
of corsets over the years, made of spring steel bones and plastic bones.
I don't wash my corset every time that I wear it; being worn over a chemise,
it just doesn't need it. So far, nothing has rusted! (I may creak a bit,
but that's just approaching middle age!) :-)
Ailith
From: ferox at mi.net (ferox)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Corset boning suggestions?
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 97 10:22:50 GMT
Organization: MIS Saint John
Try willow withes if you live somewhere you can cut them. This
works and is period. The drawback is that they do break after awhile, but
since the boning is put into a little casing it is quite easy to replace.
Achsa
From: cromabu at aol.com (CromAbu)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Corset boning suggestions?
Date: 4 Apr 1997 02:31:05 GMT
Said willow can be purched at art & craft stores. It is used in repairing
caining in chairs (it's the piece that goes around the edge to keep the
caining attached to the chair).
I also use it in stiffing hats (I make it so that it is eaisly removed for
washing).
Lady Cate
P.S. it is pretty cheap stuff & can eaisly be molded after soaking in warm
water, braceing it in the shape desired & allowing it to dry, & it's
period too!
From: sweetsheep at aol.com (Sweetsheep)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Busks in Corsets, 1540-1580
Date: 24 Apr 1997 21:41:40 GMT
Greetings!!
>So, here's the thing: I am getting conflicting information about whether
>or not this corset I'm in the process of making requires a busk. I dialed
>up the Elizabethan Costuming Homepage, and got the pattern directions for
>the boned tab version of a period corset. According to the directions, it
>requires a busk. It was easy enough to make, and it's done.
Actually, the corset on that web page is not really very accurate, but it
will get the job done. If you want a more period corset with easy to
follow instructions and modern sewing techniques try the one in Jean
Hunnisett's book _Period Costumes for Stage and Screen: Patterns for
Women's Dress 1500 -1800_. That corset isn't truly accurate either, but
it's closer. A pattern based on a surving 16th century corset is in Janet
Arnold's _Patterns of Fashion_ (the 1560 - 1620 one).
Period and period-based corsets for Elizabethan _do_ require busks.
That's what gives the gowns their distinct flat fronted shape.
>Now, I call down to AlterYears in Pasadena to order spring steel bones.
>"No no no!" the gal tells me emphatically over the phone. "Those didn't
>even come into use until the Georgian era! You don't need one of those!"
Well, true but... In period corsets they used whalebone, reeds, horn, or
wooden bones. Whalebone comes from and endangered species, reeds are
available in many craft stores (chair caning, basketry, etc.) but are hard
to work with and tend to break down with wear. Horn is very expensive and
hard to find. Wood was never commonly used for boning because it isn't
very flexible and therefore isn't as comfortable. Most people use spring
steel bones (1/2" wide) because they have approximately the strength,
rigidity, and flexibility of whalebone or reeds (horn is actually not as
stiff or strong) while being inexpensive and durable, and the coated ones
are even washable - a _must_ here in Trimaris!!!!! I wear a chemise
underneath, but you frequently sweat through the chemise, and even through
the corset.
>Uh-oh. What's the deal? I thought maybe she had the busk confused with
>some other OOP design of corset, and we went around that mulberry bush a
>few times...she seemed quite sure she knew that no busk was required. Did
>she think I meant bustle?
Here's the problem, Victorian and Edwerdian corsets also have a piece in
the front called a busk. These busks are actually stiffened, reinforced
clasps that allowed the corset to be opened/closed in front. They were
laced and tightened in the back like earlier corsets, but put on by
hooking the busk in the front. These hooks took their name from the
sixteenth century busks, Alter Years sells these busks, but does not sell
16th century wooden busks - hence the confusion.
Hope this helps!!
Lady Dulcia MacPherson
Barony of Wyvernwood, Trimaris
From: "Perkins" <lwperkins at snip.net>
Subject: Re: Busks in Corsets, 1540-1580
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Date: 25 Apr 97 00:58:18 GMT
EBD23 <ebd23 at aol.com> wrote
> So, here's the thing: I am getting conflicting information about whether
> or not this corset I'm in the process of making requires a busk. I dialed
> up the Elizabethan Costuming Homepage, and got the pattern directions for
> the boned tab version of a period corset. According to the directions, it
> requires a busk. It was easy enough to make, and it's done.
> Now, I call down to AlterYears in Pasadena
...she seemed quite sure she knew that no busk was required. Did
> she think I meant bustle?
I'm not sure what she thought, but busks do occur in period--the one I'm
thinking of is late, it's a "pair of bodies" belonging to the Pfalzgrafin
Dorothea Sabina von Neuberg, and dated in Janet Arnold's book as 1598, and
it had a wooden busk down the center front, about two fingers wide (this is
a guess looking at the photo). I seem to recall references to "busk
ribbons" being given out as favors in this century, and I'm sure
Shakespeare may have had a line or two referring to them. I'll check
around a few more places. The busk is important for corsets that lace up
the back to ensure a smooth front--as I recall that Alter Years pattern is
a front-lacer, which would make installing the busk impossible; but I
haven't looked at it for a while. Re bustles, the bumroll did something of
the same thing ( puff out your rear), but the bustle/corset combo is
definitely a Victorian thing--late 1860's and then again 1880's. Let me
rummage around some more...
--Ester
From: The Shrew <shrew at peak.org>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Busks in Corsets, 1540-1580
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 08:21:39 -0700
Organization: Shrewsbury Renaissance Faire
And just as an aside, when you are using stays in a bodice or pair of
bodies, I have found using those cheap throw away wood chopsticks from
the Chinese restaurants to be perfect! They are pretty period, being
wood. They are light. They wash just fine. They don't bend or break.
This is critical for me, as I do a street theatre bit with a large goose
puppet, and so bend over a lot for the "little folke". After a weekend
at Faire, my regular metal or plastic stays just curled up and died!
Huzzah!
See you at Faiare!
SCA: Lady Leslie of Greytower
At FAIRE: the Shrew
Date: Fri, 09 May 97 07:43:59 PDT
From: "Dinah & Harold Tackett" <htackett at eagnet.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Metal Stays?
> Does anyone know of a source for metal stays?
> Inui
Greenberg & Hammer have a wide assoritment of spiral steel boning and a
free catalogue.
Greenberg & Hammer, Inc.
24 West 57th St
New York, NY 10019-3918
800-955-5135 212-246-2835
Dinah Bint Ismai'l
Date: Fri, 09 May 1997 12:21:19 EDT
From: epinegar at juno.com
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Metal Stays?
The latest Compleat Anachronist lists suppliers of such articles:
AlterYears
3749 E. Colorado Blvd.
Pasadena. CA 91107
72437.67 at compuserve.com
is said by the authors to be THE place to go for such items
Amazon Vinegar & Pickling Works
2218 E. 11th St.
Davenport, IA 52803-3760
(319) 322-6800
their catalogue can keep one occupied for hours
The Gilded Lily
1615 N. Peoria Rd.
Springfield, IL 62702
(217) 789-4661
quantity discounts and free shipping for SCA members.
Good luck!
Elina in Harraudha
Kingdom of calontir
From: Mara <corbie at go-away.radix.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Corsetry Boning
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 21:45:06 -0700
Chas Warren wrote:
> I've searched the Rialto archives (graciously maintained by Stefan li
> Rous), but I've found no word on using fiberglass for corsetry boning.
>
> Does anyone have any info on this?
>
> Chas
> chas at nidlink.com
I've used polystyrene (from a model-building shop) in a corset; it's ok,
but I'm told it will mold to the body over time. (Not necessarily a
problem, if you're not wearing the corset every day, though, and
easy/cheap enough to replace.)
James Townsend & Co. have a web site for later period reenactment, but I
believe they sell steel corset boning, with the ends painted with some
sort of material to keep them from poking through the fabric. I believe
their URL is http://www.jastown.com.
Cheers,
Mo/r nic Cholla
From: heddema logica <heddema1 at pi.net>
To: lindahl at pbm.com
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 11:54:29 -0700
Subject: steels for DIY dressmaking , corset boning
Understand that diy dressmakers are looking for steels less coarse than
hacksaw blades.
If you strip down a (worn) windshield wiper of your car you get
2 steels: size (at my example):
0.8 * 2.5* 525 mm (0.03 * 0.1* 20.5 inch);
stainless and flexible.
Suggest to look for in your car mechanics waste bin.
regards, Piet Heddema.
From: sweetsheep at aol.com (Sweetsheep)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Elisabethan corsets
Date: 15 Sep 1997 18:47:38 GMT
In my research, I have encountered very little evidence of upperclass
Elizabethan women wearing boned bodices in lieu of a corset and bodice. On
the flip side, I have also found very little evidence to support the
popular theory that only upperclass women wore corsets and those beneath
them wore boned bodices. You won't find much in actual costuming books,
but when you read broadsheets (essentially, publicly posted newspapers),
sermons, letters (especially foreign travelers visiting England and sending
descriptions home), diaries and especially the books that were available,
you find a lot more of this kind of information. The sermons are
especially helpful here, because the many (okay, most, nearly all even)
ministers were constantly delivering strongly worded lectures on the evils
of tightly laced corsets, bum rolls, farthingales, colored hose, make-up,
wigs and hairpieces, etc., etc. etc.... These sermons were not just aimed
at the upperclasses and very frequently are aimed at "those among us who
should spend their earnings more wisely than in aping their betters." As I
understand it (though I cmay be wrong and wouldn't be the first time ;-D)
only the very poorest women wore just a boned bodice for everyday wear. I
have seen boned bodices mentioned for other women, but usually in
connection with serious physical labor or very hot weather (ie: helping
with or supervising the harvest, which women of all classes were
responsible for).
I guess the question is, How lower class is your persona?
>>
Actually, the pair of bodies was also worn by the upper classes.
Separating the "corset" and "bodice" is not universal to any class. Part
of the problem is that modern Renfair-influenced ideas of 16th-century
women's clothes make for a completely incorrect assessment of what a
"bodice" was meant to do.
Let's put it this way: It not only sculpted the figure, but took the
place of the modern brassiere--you were not to have yer tits hangin' over
the top. The idea was to create a perfectly smooth, non-bulging, even at
the top, conical or cylindrical shape for the torso, which would then
suddenly flare at the hips (facilitated by the bumroll, with a farthingale
for them's who could afford it).
>>
You're absolutely right in both cases. The RenFaire "mentality" (for lack
of a better word, no insult really intended) has created a common
perception of the Elizabethans that has very little factual basis. From
fake Cockney accents to the "boob hanger" bodices, it would all shock even
the very lowest members of Elizabethan society. Not that they real
Elizabethans didn't have their faults - there was an entire outlaw
underworld, they had a _lot_ of, um... pre-marital sex and it's natural
consequences, etc... The real difference is that all of that was carefully
hidden beneath a very proper veneer. (No different from the Victorians or
even the 1950's)
No decent woman of any class (the only exception would be the very low
class whores who, as they still do today, had to "advertise") would have
worn a bodice that allowed even a portion of her breasts to hang or pop
out. If your bodice or corset causes your breasts to "pop" out of the top
(you know, the "scoop of ice cream" effect!), than it does not fit properly.
I hope this helps! Have fun with your persona!
Dulcia MacPherson
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:30:54 -0500From: Margo Lynn Hablutzel <Hablutzel at compuserve.com>To: A&S List <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>Subject: Elizabethan Undergarb Items Web Site I got this from the PLANET PATCHWORK info emailer, which is mostly forquilters but also has useful information for people who sew in general. Ichecked out the site, and in addition to these patterns, it has links toother costuming sites, sources of supplies and materials, and on andon..........--------------- Forwarded Message ---------------4. HOW TO MAKE AN ELIZABETHAN CORSEThttp://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/I had a grandmother who was manager of a corset shop in Newton, Massachusettsfor many years. And I studied Elizabethan literature in graduate school. Sothis page spoke to me. There are also instructions for making an Elizabethanbumroll. You'll have to check that one out for yourself!{I took the liberty of snipping the majority of the newsletter as it is OOPand would not be of interest to people -- email below if you want a copy.}(c) Copyright 1997 by The Virtual Quilt Company. May bereproduced and redistributed freely if kept in its originalform.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Rob Holland, Editor/Publisher"The Virtual Quilt," A Newsletter for Computing Quilters rholland at atlanta.com http://planetpatchwork.comE-mail for a free sample copy^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Subject: Re: BG - Metal Corset Stays
Date: Wed, 06 May 98 17:47:45 MST
From: PaulaDetch <PaulaDetch at aol.com>
To: bryn-gwlad at Ansteorra.ORG
Alter Years catalog has metal corset stays in different lengths.
Their # is 626-585-2994, fax 626-453-4530.
Or Amazon Dry Goods (800-798-7979) Can't put my hands on Harper House at the moment, but will look if you would like me to.
Anwynne
Subject: corset supplies
Date: Tue, 26 May 98 16:28:04 MST
From: "Susan" <suzanne at aez.net>
To: "Mark.S Harris (rsve60)" <rsve60 at email.sps.mot.com>
Paxton Manufacturing makes corset Busk in four sizes along with all other
items at wholesale
9" 12" 14.5" 17"
They can be reached at 804-352-0231
P. O. Box 2164
Appomattox, VA USA
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 21:54:25 PST
From: "T Cardy" <otterbabi at hotmail.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Fabric Opportunities
Seek out a copy of "Threads" magazine published by Taunton Press - there
is always an extensive ad section in the the back, I have had much good
luck with many of the suppliers.
Also, I would write to (well, you'll have to call - I can't find the
address) "Richard the Thread" call directory assist in 310 - they're in
West Hollywood, CA and specialize in cotile (which is a specialty fabric
for building corsets), buckram (both single and double) and any and all
corset supplies that you could think of. (even a little do-hickey that
puts metal aiglets on the ends of corset cords). They are a wonderfull
theatre and canvas house.
Timothy Van Vlear
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 13:28:26 -0800
From: Brett and Karen Williams <brettwi at earthlink.net>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: A question about buckrum
Wendy Colbert wrote:
> Where do you get the cotille?
>
> Irene von Schmetterling
AlterYears sells it by the yard, in white. Their cotille is a
herringbone twill fabric (the twill chevrons run in selvedge-parallel
stripes, like this: /\/\/\/\/\). It's made from a fine cotton thread.
Corsets made of twill will conform to the body better than a tabby
(plain) weave; the twill will tend to shift and stretch a little on the
bias.
ciorstan
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 15:26:31 -0700 (MST)
From: starsinger at webtv.net (theresa sorrell)
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: A question about buckrum
Alter years sells cotton coutille (sp?)
About $10.00 am per yard 60" wide.
Starsinger
From: "Esther Heller" <Esther at kodak.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Corset?
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:24:51 -0400
Organization: Eastman Kodak Company
MagicStlkr wrote
>I hear all the women talking of wearing corset under their garb and how it is
>more comfortable then womens everyday underclothes. So please (me being a
>women always up for comfort) tell me where one may get one?
>Thanks,
>Heather (Haven't finished my name or persona yet)
You have to build your own to your own measurements. _The_ website is:
http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/general.html
While checking the URL I notice a bunch of recent additions including
a corset pattern generator that I am going to have to try out...
Esther eoh at kodak dot com
Subject: [Bryn-gwlad] Corset pattern generator
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:35:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Celestria LeDragon <celestria_ledragon at yahoo.com>
To: Bryn-Gwlad <bryn-gwlad at ansteorra.org>
While at fighter practice last night I had made
mention of this web site that will generate a pattern
per your measurements.
http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/custompat/
In Service
Celestria
From: Lady Deirdre <ladydeirdre at sbcglobal.net>
Date: Wed Sep 10, 2003 10:04:00 AM US/Central
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Sorta Off Topic? - Corsetry
> Off-topic, since I need it for foundation for an out-of-SCA event... and
> will probably be going for one of those 're-arrange' style Victorians
> (nip/tuck/lift/etc.) which are out of period... just didn't know the
> difference (at the time) of Victorian Vs Elizabethan.
>
> But thank you for the information!
>
> -zubeydah
I don't know how much you'd be looking to spend but there are several
corsetiers online. My favorite to drool over is bruteforceleather.com
she has a section of victorian corsets, as well as a variety of
renaissance and fantasy styles.
google corsets. there are tons of sites.
Deirdre
<the end>
