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linen-msg - 1/16/08

 

Period and modern linen. Sources. Care.

 

NOTE: See also the files: hemp-cloth-msg, emb-linen-msg, textiles-msg, velvet-msg, cotton-art, silk-msg, lace-msg, cotton-msg, fabric-ident-msg, weaving-lnks, weaving-msg.

 

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NOTICE -

 

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

 

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

 

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

 

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

 

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

 

Thank you,

    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                          Stefan at florilegium.org

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Date: 15 Jun 92

From: ewright at convex.com (Edward V. Wright)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA

 

Angharad ver' Rhuawn (Terry Nutter) writes:

>(1)  But for our purposes, it is worth remembering that

>     lightweight cotton is almost always a substitute for linen anyhow.

 

I haven't denied that, and wouldn't because it's true. Linen is somewhat

stronger than cotton and has a slightly different feel, but these are

usually not significant.  Moreover, I have recently found that some

maufacturers are starting to produce "linen-look" materials made from

100% cotton rather than poly-rayon synthetics.

As far as cotton being out of period, that's true and it isn't.  Cotton

was at least known in most of the places and times we recreate, but it

was usually quite expensive.  Then again, so was silk. Linen, however,

was available and used everywhere and, as you yourself noted, cotton is

a perfectly reasonable substitute for linen.  Moreover, not everybody insists

on having exactly the right material for his country and time period.  Most

people are more than willing to make compromises, such as wearing cotton

during the summer, for the sake of health and comfort.

 

-- Nicholas van Leyden

 

 

From: Brett and Karen Williams <brettwi at ix.netcom.com>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: [Q]s about Linen

Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:48:31 -0700

 

morphis at niuhep.physics.niu.edu wrote:

>         I am looking at making a linen tunic and braes, the local

> fabric store has hanky wt, lt wt and somewhat heavier wt linen on sale

> for $4.00 to $5.50/yd, (44"-47") width.  Is this an excellent, good,

> modest horrible price?

 

If it is indeed 100% linen, that's an exceptionally good price. I, who

I'll cheerfully is a little sheepishly admit own more fabric than I can

use even if I did nothing else but sew in my waking hours for the next

year, would buy as much of that linen as I could afford. Linen usually

runs US$9.00/yd on sale in my local non-discount fabric stores and is

more usually $15/yd to $22/yd. I'm in Los Angeles, by the way. WHERE IS

THAT STORE?!! ;)

 

>         I was thinking of making an undertunic with the lt. wt.

> and an overtunic with the heavier. (I am somewhat dubious about

> the hanky wt.)

 

The hanky weight would make an excellent light weight chemise or

undertunic, or, now that I think about it, a coif for your child or

yourself. Linen is not a fragile fiber.

 

>         The linen is made in China and labeled "dry clean only".

> (also does not meet the requirements for children's pjs :)

 

If the cloth is indeed 100% linen, it's washable. However, keep in mind

that any treatment the fabric has been given, and possibly to some

extent the dye, may be fugitive upon washing, also the cut edges of the

fabric might be subject to raveling in various degrees. It's been my

practical experience that linen labelled dry clean only has been

finished with a type of chemical size or treatment to keep it relatively

crisp. Expect linen to wrinkle dreadfully just from the force of laying

on of eyes... :) If you can't tolerate wrinkles and creases in your

clothes, linen is not for you. Fabric for children's sleepwear is

required to have a chemical flame retardant; I have very rarely seen

such on the bolt in a fabric store.

 

If sewing linen (aaaah! love just touching it!), I'd keep a spray bottle

of water next to the iron and iron it ruthlessly into submission as the

seams were being done. Before cutting into the fabric, I would have

stitched the raw edges with an overcast or zig-zag from my sewing

machine, then done the process below. I would also plan a good seam

finish into the garment to make the finished garment last longer (e.g.

I'd leave no raw edges exposed to wear and tear).

 

My favorite 'finish' for a blouse-weight linen garment is to remove it

from the washing machine and iron it dry. Yeah, it's *ironing* and

requires a bit of pre-planning, however each successive washing and

ironing makes the linen silkier to the touch and has the added benefit

of keeping it from wrinkling a little less while on the body. A little

less. ;) Linen fabric in period was given a treatment called 'beetling',

which constitutes beating the crap out of the fabric with a wooden

mallet. I ran across a black-and-white photo of an old Irish beetling

machine built out of wood done on the cog and triphammer idea a couple

of weeks ago.

 

>         Any thoughts on why it would be dry clean only?  How much

> shrinkage should I expect?  The hanky and lt wt stuff is white the

> other is various colors including a nice green, which I understand

> from the archives is a period color... anybody know what other

> colors were period for linen?

 

> Robert

> Morphis at physics.niu.edu

 

No shrinkage unless the linen is blended with something else. Check that

fiber content label again! Upon washing linen the 'hand' might be a

little different than that on the bolt, since you might have washed out

a chemical size applied to keep the fabric from wrinkling too badly

while in shipping and display, or the dye might wash out to an unknown

extent. Ah, I love the smell of formaldehyde in the morning... (laugh)

If in doubt, cut a piece of the cloth about the size of your hands,

stitch the edges to keep it from raveling and toss the sample into the

washing machine and/or dryer to see how it reacts to your planned

treatment.

 

Linen is well nigh impossible to dye well with natural dyes as the

nature of the bast fiber prevents a good chemical bond between dye and

fiber. Wool has no such problem. Generally speaking, I would tend to

stay away from the colored linens-- however a pastel-ish linen that

looks like the color had faded or washed out from a natural color with

originally more intensity would be acceptable. Perhaps a light intensity

of Saxon green is the green you've described?

 

ciorstan

(the current issue of Interweave Press' magazine called SpinOff has an

article in it on dyeing Saxon green with woad, with some very good

photos of the color on wool)

 

 

From: capncarp at aol.com (CapnCarp)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: [Q]s about Linen

Date: 28 Jul 1997 17:57:22 GMT

 

>ng at making a linen tunic and braes, the local

>fabric store has hanky wt, lt wt and somewhat heavier wt linen on sale

>for $4.00 to $5.50/yd, (44"-47") width.  Is this an excellent, good,

>modest horrible price?

The price is actually quite acceptable, having been until recently

involved in purveying period fabrics, linen being one.

>       I was thinking of making an undertunic with the lt. wt.

>and an overtunic with the heavier. (I am somewhat dubious about

>the hanky wt.)>

The hanky weight would make a lovely undertunic, just remember to use 100%

cotton thread so that the seam will give before the thread cuts the

fabric; and, as with all linen, roll/flatfell/French seam it, unless you

like the ravelled look.

>The linen is made in China and labeled "dry clean only".

>(also does not meet the requirements for children's pjs :)

>Any thoughts on why it would be dry clean only?  How much

>shrinkage should I expect?

Wash it in hot water(yes, I know, sacrilege, but it's the only way to

really pre-shrink it); it will probably shrink about 1 1/2 to 2 inches

each direction at least.

>  The hanky and lt wt stuff is white the

>other is various colors including a nice green, which I understand

>from the archives is a period color... anybody know what other

>colors were period for linen?

It's labelled "dry clean only" probably because, if you wash it, you'll

find it's not colorfast.(at least the stuff I bought of same description

was, years ago.)

I'm working on about 4 linen projects for the War right now, myself.

 

Yours,

Geoffrey Soulspeeder

 

 

Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 16:12:03 -0600

From: Karen Harris <karen at georesearch.com>

Subject: Re: [Q]s about Linen

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

 

Robert wrote:

 

>       I am looking at making a linen tunic and braes, the local

> fabric store has hanky wt, lt wt and somewhat heavier wt linen on sale

> for $4.00 to $5.50/yd, (44"-47") width.  Is this an excellent, good,

> modest horrible price?

 

It's okay, I suppose; the Townsend catalog (http://www.jastown.com) also

carries linen intended for 18th and 19th century reenactment groups that

does good "stunt-double" work for SCA-period linen, and that's roughly

the price of the stuff they carry, too.

 

<SNIP!>

 

>       The linen is made in China and labeled "dry clean only".

> (also does not meet the requirements for children's pjs :)

 

Then it's probably a linen blend, and not 100% linen.  I started working

with an 18th century reenactment group when I was eleven years old (the

Colonial Company of the Claude Moore Colonial Farm at Turkey Run), and

_all_ pieces of my outfit (except for the stays I made when I was 13)

were made of real 100% made-from-flax-for-reenactors linen.  Not only was

it machine washable (but I strongly recommend line-drying; it ends up not

lasting as long if you dry it by machine), but it's very much up to the

flammability requirements for children's pyjamas -- this stuff ain't

flammable AT ALL.  I'm fairly sure this goes for all linen -- real 100%

linen does not burn.  Smoulders a bit, but that's about it.

 

If you're the type of person that does a lot of campfire cooking, goes to

a lot of outdoor events in the summer, or wants period-looking cloth, I'd

strongly suggest putting together an outfit out of this stuff -- it

breathes really well (this coming from a kid that spent lots of summers

in the middle of a field picking weeds in 2-3 layers of linen garments in

the hot July and August summers in Virginia) and looks period in addition

to being not very flammable.  (I wouldn't say that it's _completely_

inflammable, but you really have to get it into some hot fire before it

even starts smouldering.)

 

>       Any thoughts on why it would be dry clean only? How much

> shrinkage should I expect?  The hanky and lt wt stuff is white the

> other is various colors including a nice green, which I understand

> from the archives is a period color... anybody know what other

> colors were period for linen?

 

As always, pre-wash the real linen.  As to the stuff you've found in the

fabric store, my suspicion is that it's a linen blend. When I was still

doing the reenactment work, we had to stick to period dye colors (which

we generally did with Rit on the garment once it was sewn together), and

there's really quite a good range of colors out there that are quite

period.  (Fluorescents, generally speaking, are Right Out.)  You may want

to consider whether your persona would have had those dyestuffs (or the

ability to afford dyed cloth) of a certain color available -- throughout

most of the period, true black was difficult to manage, for example.

 

> Thanks for any help you can give.

 

You're welcome!  :)

 

Yours in Service to the Dream,

 

Karen Larsdatter

  Barony of Ponte Alto, Atlantia

  (Volunteer, Colonial Company, 1985-1992)

 

 

From: tjustus at sprynet.com (T Justus)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: [Q]s about Linen

Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 04:28:05 GMT

 

Sounds like you are on to a good deal, if it's labeled 100% linen on

the bolt. I bought some fine pink linen from Hancock fabrics a couple

of years ago (for a modern blouse) and discovered that printed on the

end of the cloth was "Made in China  100% ramie" although the bolt

was labeled 100% linen. (Ramie is a vegetable fiber, also known as

nettlecloth.)  The blouse has worn well, and does not wrinkle as much

as  linen would.

Linen can be sucessfully overdyed. That is, if the fabric is already

dyed you can re-dye it a darker shade. This only applied to linen

that's been dyed already and has the mordant in it. Wash the fabric

first. Rit dye works fine. When dyeing, don't pack the washer too

full, and use enough dye for your yardage. That way you can use that

deep discounted 100% linen in lime green that no one else wanted...

redye it dark green or blue. Stay in the same general color family--

don't expect to change orange to blue.

 

Tracy Justus    AKA Clare de Crecy

 

 

From: nachtanz at patriot.net (Susan and Ken Reed)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: [Q]s about Linen

Date: 29 Jul 1997 20:45:31 GMT

 

Karen Harris <karen at georesearch.com> wrote:

 

> Then it's probably a linen blend, and not 100% linen. I started working

> with an 18th century reenactment group when I was eleven years old (the

> Colonial Company of the Claude Moore Colonial Farm at Turkey Run), and

> _all_ pieces of my outfit (except for the stays I made when I was 13)

> were made of real 100% made-from-flax-for-reenactors linen.  Not only was

> it machine washable (but I strongly recommend line-drying; it ends up not

> lasting as long if you dry it by machine), but it's very much up to the

> flammability requirements for children's pyjamas -- this stuff ain't

> flammable AT ALL.  I'm fairly sure this goes for all linen -- real 100%

> linen does not burn.  Smoulders a bit, but that's about it.

>

> If you're the type of person that does a lot of campfire cooking, goes to

> a lot of outdoor events in the summer, or wants period-looking cloth, I'd

> strongly suggest putting together an outfit out of this stuff -- it

> breathes really well (this coming from a kid that spent lots of summers

> in the middle of a field picking weeds in 2-3 layers of linen garments in

> the hot July and August summers in Virginia) and looks period in addition

> to being not very flammable.  (I wouldn't say that it's _completely_

> inflammable, but you really have to get it into some hot fire before it

> even starts smouldering.)

>

> Karen Larsdatter

>   Barony of Ponte Alto, Atlantia

>   (Volunteer, Colonial Company, 1985-1992)

 

Karen, my dear,

 

You have given very dangerous advice. Linen is a cellulosic fiber and has

the same chemistry as cotton and ramie and hemp, all other natural

cellulosic fibers. This means linen has the same flammability as other

cellulosic fibers, all other factors being equal--and we all know how

flammable cotton is. I have a M.S. in Textiles and one of my classes for

my last semester of grad school was on textile flammability (I did

extensive testing). There is NO difference between cotton and linen in

terms of flammability and if you read the technical literature on textile

flammability, cellulosics are classified as having the same flammability

and have been for years. On a personal note, I have a 100% linen gown

which I caught on fire at Pennsic about 7 years ago and can show you the

burn hole. New linen MIGHT have sizings on  it that may retard

flammability, but these will wash out in a few washings.  

 

Silk and wool, on the other hand, are self-extinguishing IF you remove

them from the flame source. However, you can be greatly injured waiting

for that to happen, so we should all be cautious around flames regardless

of what fibers we are wearing.

 

Please, everyone, linen IS highly flammable!

 

Susan Reed/Teleri Talgellawg

P.S. Karen, you can e-mail me privately if you want some references and a

more detailed discussion of the factors involved in flammability.

--

Susan and Ken Reed     AFPOPA     nachtanz at patriot.net

RK Architects, 900 S. Washington St., Falls Church, VA

 

 

From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: [Q]s about Linen

Date: 29 Jul 1997 19:46:07 GMT

Organization: University of California, Berkeley

 

morphis at niuhep.physics.niu.edu wrote:

:       I am looking at making a linen tunic and braes, the local

: fabric store has hanky wt, lt wt and somewhat heavier wt linen on sale

: for $4.00 to $5.50/yd, (44"-47") width.  Is this an excellent, good,

: modest horrible price?

 

It is an excellent price. Not _quite_ a "fantabulous buy the entire bolt

and ask if they have more at the warehouse you can re-sell to your

friends" price, but definitely good.

 

:       I was thinking of making an undertunic with the lt. wt.

: and an overtunic with the heavier. (I am somewhat dubious about

: the hanky wt.)

 

The stuff labelled as "handkerchief linen" can vary significantly, in my

experience. Sometimes it's too loosely woven to stand up well once you've

washed the size out of it. But my general rule of thumb is that for actual

_underwear_ (i.e., you'll always be wearing something over it except in

the privacy of your pavillion) it is impossible to use _too_ lightweight a

linen. My favorite period underwear is made from "drafting linen" -- which

alas is no longer to be had for love or money -- which is about the same

weight as china silk. If your "handkerchief linen" is similar to what I

find by that name, it would probably be your best choice for the

underwear. (Hint: prewash it once before cutting and then a couple times

after sewing the garment, to help get rid of all the size and soften it

up. The longer you wear and wash linen, the more comfortable it gets.)

 

:       The linen is made in China and labeled "dry clean only".

: (also does not meet the requirements for children's pjs :)

 

Just about _everything_ is labelled "dry clean only" these days. My

impression from talking to fabric store employees is that it's mostly a

CYA measure to protect fabric manufacturers from stupid claims from

customers who have no idea what the natural behavior of fabric is. If you

want that nice crisp "linen look" that is generated by quantities of

sizing, then you either need to dry clean the finished garment or

re-starch it every time you wash it. Guess what most people would rather

do? My rule of thumb is that if I ever expect to wash a garment, then I

pre-wash the fabric exactly the way I expect to treat it later. There are

some garments that I don't wash (e.g., brocades, velvets, some silks,

anything with embroidery or fur on it) and if they ever got seriously

dirty I'd have them dry-cleaned. But as long as you know what changes

washing is going to make in a fabric (e.g., you may have to iron it or

line-dry it if you want it to lie flat for cutting) then ignore the

cleaning intructions. (There are times when I think that all that arcane

lore about fabric care will some day only survive among historic

costumers.)

 

: other is various colors including a nice green, which I understand

: from the archives is a period color... anybody know what other

: colors were period for linen?

 

Linen did not hold colors fast very well, so "pastel" colors will be the

most authentic approximation of what was available in period from natural

dyes. (Modern synthetic dyes get around the problem -- I've even seen

linen for sale in "international orange" <ugh>.) Part of the well-known

vestments of the Order of the Golden Fleece are lined with a salmon-pink

linen. The Museum of London "Textiles and Clothing" book mentions

inventories of linen sewing thread in a variety of colors (unspecified).

But there is a reason why "white linen" was the standard for underclothes

-- it simply wasn't worthwhile to dye something that wouldn't be seen much

and wouldn't dye well anyway.

 

I tend to be a bit forgiving in myself (don't anyone faint now!) of using

more brightly colored linens for outer garments when I'm making a

California-weather version of a garment that by rights ought to be made

out of wool.

 

Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn

 

 

Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 22:38:46 -0700

From: Brett and Karen Williams <brettwi at ix.netcom.com>

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: irons and linen use/abuse

 

<snip>

So, we're talking about a particular bast fiber here, which comes in a

number of flavors. The most popular, of course, is linen. There's also

stinging nettle (Urtica dioica), which apparently makes a silvery-white very

fine fiber, finer than linen. There's other forms of nettle, Urtica urens

and Urtica parviflora. Ramie is known as Eastern nettle, but its scientific

name is Boehmeria nivea, and it is a completely different creature compared

to the European/New World stinging nettle. Sometimes imported Chinese

'linen' that's really ramie fiber is sold in the linen section of fabric

stores (check that bolt label carefully!). Then there's the political hot

potato known as hemp.

 

I was rillyrilly tempted to buy the newish comprehensive linen book a few

visits back to my favorite bookstore, but passed it up. Silly, silly me. All

that I remember is that its paper jacket was mostly orange-- no memory of

title and author. Bad Ciorstan, no bisquit.

 

At any rate, this particular book goes into *very extensive detail* on the

processing of linen, from a description, I think, of the flax crop all the

way to handling the finished fabric. One of the more interesting processes

discussed was an Irish 'beetling' mill, built at least a century back

(didn't remember the attributed date), that used wooden water-driven

triphammers to beat the bejaysus, as the Irish say, out of a completed linen

cloth-- something similar to the triphammer mill used in comparative

miniature by the gold mines of the California Gold Rush (anyone ever been to

Calico Ghost Town?). The effect on the cloth was to bring out the luster and

soft qualities of the linen piece. The machine, for lack of a better word

since it has little to no metal,  is a bewildering array of rows upon rows

of hammer sets. My dim memory of the black-and-white photo suggests that the

machine was at least forty feet long, ten feet wide and all hammers along

the length.

 

That's a lotta hammers.

 

One of the nice and fascinating things amongst a lot of very nice and

fascinating things in E.J.W. Barber's _Prehistoric Textiles_, ISBN

0-691-00224-X (mine's a paperback) is that she describes the basic process

of fiber preparation, spinning (and ancient Egyptian linen splicing and

plying, not the same thing), and weaving in some detail. She says, in part:

 

"The fibers originate inside the stem of the plant, where their function is

to protect and support the channels that carry nutrients along the length of

the plant.  These fibers, known as bast, occur in bundles of overlapping

strands among the sieve (food-carrying) cells.  They form a ring around the

woody core, and are in turn surrounded by a sort of skin or rind.  The

'ultimate fibers' of bast, which are long, thin cells that reach a few

centimeters in length and are joined end to end in long strands, aer held

together in these bundles by a matrix of pectinous substances.  In order to

obtain the bast fibers, then, all of these other parts, with the exception

of some of the matrix found witin the bundles, must somehow be stripped or

eaten away."

 

So, you plant the seeds crammed together as close as you can to get a tall

crop (competing for sun against all the neighbors!), yank 'em up by the

roots at your chosen point (the younger the plant, the thinner and paler the

resulting tow or line; the coarse, strong stuff is an older plant), make the

choice to dew-ret (as Barber says, an old causative form of the verb _rot_),

or water ret (the first provides a greyish fiber, the latter golden), and

keep it from either under-retting (it's a pain later on in the breaking

step) or over-retting (weak tow or line). Then the retted stuff is dried,

then it undergoes breaking or braking (a specialized tool that beats and/or

crushes the unwanted bits out of the retted fiber with extreme violence),

and beaten free (scutching). Then it's combed the first time to get all the

rest of the naughty bits of unwanted flax-parts out (hackling), then given

to the spinner as either tow (the shorter, fuzzier lengths) or line (the

longer, smoother parts). A hunk of line linen ready to spin is called a

'strick' or 'hank'; a wad of tow is just a wad of tow, apparently. The most

desirable cloth is made from line. Linen twine is usually dry-spun tow.

Incidentally, linseed is linen-- and if you're wont to buy linseed oil for

painting with oil-based paint, or linseed at the health food store for

adding to food (yummy in bread!), now you know where it comes from. Useful

plant, hunh? Linen grown for cloth production is not generally allowed to go

to seed.

 

Anyhow, then, tow or line can be either dry-spun (which makes a fuzzy

thread/yarn) or wet-spun (which makes a smooth thread/yarn). It is mounted

on a distaff in one of a variety of ways, and the fibers are pulled or drawn

off a bit at a time to make thread.

 

I recall a Grimm's tale in which a young woman who hates to spin and does it

dreadfully is kindly rescued from spinning tasks and uncomfortable penalties

for failure by a trio of women with three different physical deformities.

When the girl's prince-ly suitor asks the women about their deformities,

they all give a reason related to spinning. The one that I remember clearly

is the woman with a dangling lower lip-- used for years to wet the fibers as

it passed through her hands on its way from distaff to spinning wheel. She

was wet-spinning line, which, when woven, produces the bestest, smoothest

linen cloth preferred for garments. Husband-to-be then loudly declares girl

will never spin again until her dying day. Girl rejoices. I digress.

 

Then, once the fabric's woven, the cloth's end-user can affect its finish.

There are a couple of physical characteristics of the bast fibers themselves

that suggest a particular treatment.  Since the structure of the fibers

themselves consist of a very tough, long cell stuck together from end to

end, one can easily understand why it was popular in ancient Egypt as

everyday and wear for everyman. Its very continuous cell structure means it

sheds dirt *very* easily (and incidentally, why natural dyes don't take very

well on linen cells), sheds a minimum of lint, and since most of the cells

are still pretty darn hard, further physical abuse softens them. Evidently

the beetling mill actually polished the exterior cell structure of the

individual threads of the finished cloth. Clever people, discovering this

without the use of a microscope. Throwing linen cloth into a dryer produces,

compared to press-finished linen, a mooshier, slouchier, sleazier and

wrinkled- and more prone to wrinkle-- cloth. Take your sleazy linen, wash it

and press it while still damp, even with a hot iron-- once again you get

that cool, crisp sheen. I would encourage linen 'novices' to process two

otherwise linen samples through separate finishing treatments and see which

one he/she prefers.

 

So, now that I've gotten a bunch of background and semi-related trivia out

of my stubbd-ub brain (hayfever time!), I can propose a theory for the

process of plate-and-glass-ball method of smoothing linen. Perhaps the

plate/plaque was placed under the garment (or inside) and the ball was

rubbed/pressed across the plate, sandwiching and scraping the fabric between

plate and ball for mooshing under pressure from smooth surfaces. This was

maybe the individual woman's beetling mill-- much less efficient and drastic

an effect than the mill itself, but I suppose it might have worked in that

way.

 

ciorstan

 

 

Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 18:54:43 -0700

From: Brett and Karen Williams <brettwi at ix.netcom.com>

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: irons and linen use/abuse

 

Linen : Hand Spinning and Weaving

                    by Patricia Baines

                    Hardcover

                    Published by Interweave Press

                    Publication date: April 1990

                    ISBN: 0934026521

 

ciorstan

 

 

From: lynn_carpenter at hotmail.com

Subject: Unorthodox Linen Source

Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 12:38:57 -0600

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

 

I like to use linen for my "underclothes",  long linen gowns with

tight-fitting sleeves that show beneath my 11th century overgown.  I use

white figured linen (yes, I know the woven-in designs are not period for

me)  from old tablecloths I buy at estate sales and auctions.  My last

find cost me 50 cents at a garage sale for a 70" x 72" tablecloth, but

that is the extreme low price--usually they cost around $6 each locally.

 

Please don't go raid grandmother's linen closet.  I don't want your blood

on my hands!

 

Do test the linen for strength before you spend lots of time cutting and

sewing it.  I tear-test it right near a hem *after* I've bought and paid

for it.  Once I didn't do this and my newest shift tore in multiple spots

in the washing machine.  :(  But a well-preserved cloth should handle

many washings.  They are wonderfully soft after multiple wearings, and

yes, they do wrinkle, but the many wrinkles on the sleeves match period

drawings, so I don't worry about them.

 

The linen is very slick to sew.  I use about twice as many pins to hold

the pieces together, and they often slide out.  And the hems are ravelly,

so you might want to flat-fell them or use a bias-binding tape.

 

Now don't give your great-aunts my email address!

 

Lynn in the Middle Kingdom

 

 

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 23:51:44 EST

From: Bcbru <Bcbru at aol.com>

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: SCA-ARTS digest 305

 

<< I am wondering if anyone has a good source for linen. >>

 

Maybe this will help.  M.J Cahn Co Inc.

http://wwwicesinc.com/mjcahn, If you are willing to purchase 10 yards or

more they will usually give you better prices.

 

Ginevra

 

 

Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 06:35:46 -0400

From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com>

To: "INTERNET:sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu" <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>

Subject: Fraying

 

French seam everything ie sew, cut close to the edge, turn the cut edge

into the fold, sew again outside the cut edge, there is nothing to fray

that way! or has been suggested whip stitch. Or but better linen with a

closed weave, only very open weave linen behaves this way, my better linens

don't but I still like to french seam them. One wash should shrink a

garment enough, again if it is shrinking alot consider buying better quality

 

Mel

 

 

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 07:07:31 -0500

From: Margo Lynn Hablutzel <Hablutzel at compuserve.com>

To: A&S List <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>

Subject: Flax to Linen

 

I do not know about growing flax, but I did prepare and spin the fibres

when doing 19th-Century LH.  Here is the process:

 

1)  Clean stalks of debris.

 

2)  Soak for a long time to soften the outer "skin."

 

3)  Let dry.

 

4)  Crush in a "flax break," which looks like a giant scissors-thing

        of wood, several parallel "blades" that fit together like:

 

                          |   |   |   |

                        |   |   |   |   |

 

5)  Pick bits of stem out of flax and comb through very deadly-looking

        and SHARP points of the "flax comb" fastened to the end of

        the "flax break."  DO NOT TOUCH POINTS! IT DOES DRAW BLOOD!

 

NOTE:  Tangled stuff caught in the comb is called "tow," which is

        where you get "tow-headed."  It can be picked out and combed

        also but is more work.  I don't know if you can use it for rope.

 

6)  Place combed flax on distaff for spinning.

 

7)  Repeat 4-6 as long as necessary, or until you are out of flax.

 

8)  Spin fibre, using water to dampen fingertips and fibre so it

        sticks together more easily.

 

9)  Weave into fabric.

 

                                        --- Morgan

 

 

Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 22:08:30 -0700

From: Curtis & Mary <ladymari at cybertrails.com>

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: Fibers to thread

 

> All the postings about hemp, flax, linen, and the like brought a question to

> my mind:

>

> * How are the fibers of these plants converted into thread?

> * Are they spun?

 

Yes, fairly easiely

 

> I would appreciate if someone could give a complete description of the

process.

 

All of these are bast fibers {BTW flax and linen are the same thing}: pulled from the ground { think hemp is cut since its much bigger and tougher} stacked to dry, retted, that is put into water to rot off the outer layers, there is also chemical retting where strong chemicals take those layers off in a matter of hours / days, water retting, about two weeks.  There is also dew retting in damp countries where they are spread over the ground and turned occasionally, this takes something like a month and makes a darker colored product.

 

Pulled out and dried. Then breaking or scutching, basically sort of hitting then scraping at a handful at a time with a blunt board, all up and down it's length, to get the loosened up outer layers off. Then heckling or hackling, drawing handfulls of it through what look like boards with wicked 12 inch spikes sticking up, the hackles getting smaller and finer as you work off the outer chafe and just get to the inner fine fibers, combing and smoothing them.  When finished you have a bundle of long fine fiber and a pile of short fuzzy stuff.  The long fibers are called line and the short fuzzy stuff is tow.

 

Line fibers can be spun very, very fine.  I have used a distaff and spindle

and wet spun line flax at over 300 yards to the ounce. [took 1st place at the state fair last year :-)] Tow fiber is spun as you would woolen yarn, and makes a course fuzzy yarn, not as strong as the line and not spinnable as fine. {where did we get tow sacks and tow heads from, do you think?}

 

Caveat if buying fibers.  Buy flax line in sticks and use a course comb to finish hackleing it [the commercial stuff still has a fair bit of tow in it] Flax top or sliver [hemp for that matter] is not the same thing. these have been cut to a uniform length and put up ready to spin.  There is nothing wrong with them, but the fiber is not as long or strong as the full length line fiber. For the smoothest, finest thread spin all of them wet.  That is dipping your fingers in water as you spin and smooth the thread.

 

> * Are these plants hard to grow?

 

It depends on if your climate is suitable.  {can't say for the hemp since

it's illegal in the US} Flax seems to like cool damp weather at least till it's

almost ready to harvest.  Then drier is OK. I think I have some directions

someplace, remind to find them for you.

 

Mairi, Atenveldt

 

 

Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 14:05:08 EST

From: froggestow at juno.com (Roberta R Comstock)

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: Fibers to thread

 

>All the postings about hemp, flax, linen, and the like brought a

>question to my mind:

>

>* How are the fibers of these plants converted into thread?

>* Are they spun?

>* Are these plants hard to grow?

 

Morgan has given a good description of the process so I won't repeat what

she has already said, but add a couple of things to it.

 

All of the mentioned fibers are bast fibers which grow in the stems of

the plants, and occasionally in leaves (not necessarily of the same kind

of plants).  The long soaking, usually for several days, is called

retting.  It doesn't merely soften the non-fibrous part of the stems, but

actually allows bacterial action to rot them.  If you wait until they are

entirely rotted away, the fibers will be weakened.  The way to decide

when flax is retted enough is to pick up a stem and rub it between your

fingers.  The outside of it will feel slimey and will sort of slip away

from the fibers.  the separation of the fibers from the slime would be

very messy and smelly if done while the flax is wet, so it is spread out

and allowed to dry before beginning the breaking, hacking and scutching

which break and knock the rotted non-fiber part away from the fibers.

 

The long fibers that are placed on the distaff are called line, hence the

term linen for the spun thread and woven cloth.

 

Stinging nettles yield another good bast fiber that was often used

instead of flax.   The nettle shirt of some of the old folk tales was not

the prickly uncomfortable thing we associate with nettles, but a fine

soft material almost indistinguishable from linen.  Ramie is a closely

related fiber from an oriental stingless nettle plant.

 

I recently harvested some yucca leaves for basketry.  They contain strong

coarse fibers that were used by Native American tribes for cordage and

twining.  I will probably ret some of the leaves and extract the fiber.

 

Many of these plants are easy to grow.  When they are nearly dry and most

of the green is faded out at the end of the growing season, they are

pulled from the ground (not cut or mowed) because the fibers extend into

the roots.

 

My daughter once grew some flax for me from flax seed she bought at the

health food store.  It isn't as long as it might have been because

someone who thought it was weeds mowed it down when it got knee-high.  It

did grow to above knee-high again and has been fine for demos and

practicing the processing.  I understand fiber varieties of flax would

grow considerably taller.

 

You may be able to find (and use) a local native plant that has similar

fibers in the stems.  Good luck!

 

Hertha

 

 

Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 11:12:51 -0800

From: Eleanor of Leycestershyre <hekav at gte.net>

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: Fibers to thread

 

A superb source of information on flax and linen is;

 

LINEN, HAND SPINNING AND WEAVING,

by Patricia Baines,

B.T. Batsford Ltd. London

4 Fitzhardinge Street

London W1H 0AH

First Published 1989

ISBN 0-934026-52-1

Distributed in North America by

Interweave Press, Inc.

306 North Washington Ave.

Loveland, Colorado 80537

 

This book has history, background, illustrations,

and copious information on everything from

growing, harvesting, processing, spinning, dyeing

and weaving flax into linen.  I highly recommend it,

and personally don't know of a better book on this

subject.

 

You can probably get it through Amazon.Com, or

nearly any other bookseller.  You won't be disappointed!

 

Eleanor of Leycestershyre

 

 

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 17:10:55 -0700 (MST)

From: starsinger at webtv.net (theresa sorrell)

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: Fibers to thread

 

Another excellant book on fibers is Rita Buchanan's "A Weaver's Garden"

or "A Dyer's Garden."  The first book deals with descriptions of fibers

and how to raise, prepare and use them.  The second book deals with

growing, preparation and use of dye plants.  Both are excelland and both

are also from Interweave Press.

 

www.interweave.com

 

will get you their website and access to their in print books and

magazines.

 

Starsinger

 

 

Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 22:00:00 -0700

From: Curtis & Mary <ladymari at cybertrails.com>

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: Fibers to thread

 

>  The finished yarn can be a bit stiff, but it softens up with time,

> use and washing.

 

My linen book recommends boiling skiens of flax after spinning.  I usually

use a squirt of Dawn in the first pot and sort of simmer for 30 minutes, take it

out, dump the ugly brown water out of the pot and repeat with plain water as many times as needed for the water to be clear.  This also helps soften it up.

 

Mairi, Atenveldt

 

 

Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:12:25 -0600

From: "Mike C. Baker" <kihe at ticnet.com>

To: <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>

Subject: Re: Flax to Linen

 

> NOTE:  Tangled stuff caught in the comb is called "tow," which is

>        where you get "tow-headed."  It can be picked out and combed

>        also but is more work.  I don't know if you can use it for rope.

 

I'm not certain about rope either, but memory tells me this was used

in quasi-braided form for caulking seams between planks. Either

stuff into place with a caulking knife / plastering trowel / etc.and then

work in pitch or whatever OR mix with pitch/tar and *then* stuff into

place.

 

I have not done this myself -- but Grandad always seemed to have a

short length of tow-based caulk in his toolbox, alongside the putty

knife..

 

Mike C. Baker

SCA: Amr ibn Majid al-Bakri al-Amra (Steppes, Ansteorra)

 

 

Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 08:37:13 -0800

From: Brett and Karen Williams <brettwi at earthlink.net>

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: Linen thread

 

"Jerzy A. Brzozowski" wrote:

>

> Margo Lynn Hablutzel wrote:

>

> >4)  Crush in a "flax break," which looks like a giant scissors-thing

> >        of wood, several parallel "blades" that fit together like:

> >

> >                          |   |   |   |

> >                        |   |   |   |   |

>

> I simply can't imagine this process. Are the stalks put lengthwise or

> widthwise on the thing? Does this "flax break" work by lever action, like

> a pair of scissors?

 

Yes, sort of.  Breaking flax is hard work-- what you're doing is

crushing/crunching all of the exterior and unwanted portion of the plant

off the central core, which is the desirable bast. Another way to do it

is to whack it, repeatedly, with a wooden batten/sword. Rippling or

hackling flax is the next step after breaking; you draw the broken stems

through a set of teeth to literally strip the broken bits off the bast.

 

Incidentally, do not contemplate stream-retting flax, hemp or nettle.

Highly poisonous-- the released toxins will go downstream and poison the

local wildlife. I'm told by a reputable weaver/merchant in the UK that

getting Real Stream-Retted linen thread is a rarity as the process has

been pretty much banned, for good reason. Apparently white linen thread

is now chemically bleached rather than processed that way.

 

ciorstan

 

 

Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 13:41:46 -0500

From: "Gray, Lyle" <Lyle at Quodata.Com>

To: "'sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu'" <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>

Subject: RE: Linen thread

 

>Incidentally, do not contemplate stream-retting flax, hemp or nettle.

>Highly poisonous-- the released toxins will go downstream and poison the

>local wildlife.

 

Hmm, never heard that.  Considering that stinging nettles in this area

_grow_ around streams, it seems like it wouldn't be any worse than when

the nettles die and fall over.  The way that I did retting of nettles at

one point was to stand a barrel on end, and have water flowing _very_

slowly from a garden hose.  The overflow simply wet the ground around

the barrel.  Of course, that's a comparitively small amount of nettles.

 

>Apparently white linen thread

>is now chemically bleached rather than processed that way.

 

Ah, good, someone commented on that, good.  I have a reference to linen

thread used to sew a book in the 7th-8th centuries, which commented that

the thread was very white.  I had suspected that this was because of a

natural retting process, rather than boiling (I've noticed that boiling

tends to darken the fibers, regardless of what you boil in).

 

My favorite sources for bast and bast-like fibers are stinging nettles

and common milkweed.

 

Also, if you intend to grow flax for linen, you specifically need _linum

usitatissimum_, an annual.  Retting was often done by flooding the field

where the flax grew, and turning the flax during the retting process.

 

Nettles need to harvested in late Summer/early Fall (wearing leather

gloves, of course), but flax would be more likely to be harvested in

July, after the flowers have dropped but before the seeds are mature

(unless it's the seeds you're after) (cf:  John Seymore, _The Forgotten

Arts_).

 

Lyle FitzWilliam

Bergental, East

 

 

Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 17:54:53 EST

From: froggestow at juno.com (Roberta R Comstock)

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: Linen thread

 

On Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:53:10 -0200 "Jerzy A. Brzozowski"

<jerzyb at netwest.com.br> writes:

>Margo Lynn Hablutzel wrote:

>

>>4)  Crush in a "flax break," which looks like a giant scissors-thing

>>        of wood, several parallel "blades" that fit together like:

>>

>>                          |   |   |   |

>>                        |   |   |   |   |

>

>I simply can't imagine this process. Are the stalks put lengthwise

>or widthwise on the thing? Does this "flax break" work by lever

>action, like a pair of scissors?

 

The diagram is an end view of the boards. The one I have seen and used

was about four feet long and only had three boards. The lower set is

fixed onto a stand much like a sawhorse.  The upper set is attached at

one end (hinges, actually) by a hole drilled horizontally thorough all

the board at the same place and a single rod or long bolt passing through

them.  The upper boards are attached to a handle at the unhinged end.

When not in use, they lie between the lower set, not above it.  To use

the break, the handle is lifted (yes, it is a lot like scissors action)

and the flax (or whatever) stems are placed across the break

perpendicular to the boards at some distance from the hinge.

 

We placed a handful of flax on the break, holding onto the end of the

bunch so that hand holding on was near the break and the unbroken end

stuck out on the opposide side.  Then we could work the handle with the

other hand and bounce the break up and down onto the flax. Between every

couple of strokes, the flax was pulled back so that the breaking action

worked up the entire length.  Then the ends were switched so we held onto

the broken tips and broke the former had grip end of the bunch.

 

The next step was scutching with a wooden swordlike blade, sort of a

whipping motion against the bunch (still firmly gripped in the other

hand) to knock loose pieces of stem away.  The bundle was turned several

times (rotated) and then reversed end for end and scutched some more.

 

Hackling over the hackle was done last.  The hackle is a board with many

long sharp teeth through it.  It's kind of like a giant rigid brush with

inflexible steel bristles.  A friend of mine uses a wig hackle, which is

very similar, but slightly smaller.  To get really fine combing of the

fibers, they could be hackled through a series of progressively smaller

hackles.

 

The tow fibers that are left in the hackles can be recovered and spun,

but are not as strong or durable as the line fibers.  Tow is Not at all

suitable for making rope!

 

Hertha

 

 

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 13:08:07 +1300

From: Peter Grooby <Peter.Grooby at trimble.co.nz>

To: "'sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu'" <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>

Subject: RE: Linen thread

 

> The tow fibers that are left in the hackles can be recovered and spun,

> but are not as strong or durable as the line fibers. Tow is Not at all

> suitable for making rope!

 

What I have heard it is good for, however, is gambason stuffing. Apparently

very popular in period.

 

Vitale

 

 

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 16:18:50 -0800

From: Brett and Karen Williams <brettwi at earthlink.net>

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: Linen thread

 

"Gray, Lyle" wrote:

> >Incidentally, do not contemplate stream-retting flax, hemp or nettle.

> >Highly poisonous-- the released toxins will go downstream and poison the

> >local wildlife.

>

> Hmm, never heard that.  Considering that stinging nettles in this area

> _grow_ around streams, it seems like it wouldn't be any worse than when

> the nettles die and fall over.  The way that I did retting of nettles at

> one point was to stand a barrel on end, and have water flowing _very_

> slowly from a garden hose.  The overflow simply wet the ground around

> the barrel.  Of course, that's a comparitively small amount of nettles.

 

Well, exactly! ;) Escalate the scale up to that of something capable of

producing enough processed flax strick for cloth production, and you get

fish kills down stream. I taught a weaving workshop a while ago attended

by two ladies who were avid lacemakers; they were aghast at the sheer

quantity of linen thread necessary to get the loom threaded. And aghast

at my casual attitude about cutting off thrums...

 

> >Apparently white linen thread

> >is now chemically bleached rather than processed that way.

>

> Ah, good, someone commented on that, good.  I have a reference to linen

> thread used to sew a book in the 7th-8th centuries, which commented that

> the thread was very white.  I had suspected that this was because of a

> natural retting process, rather than boiling (I've noticed that boiling

> tends to darken the fibers, regardless of what you boil in).

 

Apparently dew-retting produces a darker, greyer product as opposed to

stream retting, which produces a lighter, more silvery product. Also,

you can always spread the spun yarn out on clover/grass, which is an

effective, if slow, way to bleach linen. Clover is full of oxalic acid,

which acts as a bleach.

 

So, the old way of spreading one's linen cloth out on the grass to dry

contributed to the whitening of the cloth.

 

Also, I understand that nettle strick is more silvery, as a whole, than

flax.

 

Have you processed enough nettle to make any yardage? I'm curious...

 

ciorstan

 

 

From: Nancy Wederstrandt [nweders at mail.utexas.edu]

Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 1:52 PM

To: bryn-gwlad at ansteorra.org

Subject: RE: [Bryn-gwlad] dyeing linen

 

I found a website on Irish linen that might be of interest to linen people.

http://www.upperlands.com/body_lisburn.htm

 

 

Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 17:21:38 -0500

From: Kat Dyer <kdyer at spamnotcomcast.net>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Pennsic and staying cool

 

Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

<snip>

>

> If it isn't linen but looks nice, you can always make a

> tablecloth of it.  Tables won't sweat and polyester will come out

> of the dryer or tourney box not needing ironing.

 

A good way to keep linen from not needing ironing is to make sure to

prewash prewash prewash... I have found that a lot of the reason that

modern linen wrinkles (at least for me) is the sizing that is put in at

the factory.

 

Kat

 

 

From: James Crouchet <jtc at swordworks.org>

Date: Sat May 24, 2003  12:01:13 PM US/Central

To: bryn-gwlad at ansteorra.org

Subject: [Bryn-gwlad] Linen

 

On Friday 23 May 2003 08:20 pm, Stefan li Rous wrote:

> I'd like to find some linen that is thinner/more open weave than what I

> found at silkroad last summer. And cheaper would be nice. The prices at

> Pennsic were about the same as at Silkroad, expect for some remnants

> of 3 to 4 yards I found.

 

I will caution you that with linen thinner does not equal cooler. I have a

handkerchief weight linen shirt and it is much warmer than my medium

weight linen shirts simply because of the tightness of the weave in the

handkerchief weight linen shirt. The coolness of linen is all about air

flow.

 

Ok, so wouldn't a piece of fabric that is thinner AND more open weave be

better? Not necessarily. Besides my medium weight (or Judy's linen) shirts

I also have a heavier Irish linen shirt with about the same weave. There

is no appreciable difference in how warm they are. I also have a

lightweight, open weave linen shirt that while it is cooler than the

handkerchief weight linen shirt, it is no cooler than the Judy's linen

shirts. It IS much more fragile than any of my other linen shirts.

 

My suggestion is to go with a medium weight linen with a simple square

weave. I know from experience that twills and other fancy weaves are

warmer.

 

Before anyone gets started I tell you now that I will not debate the

physics of this with you; what I have said is not based on laboratory data

and theory, it is based on direct personal experience. I'll leave it to

someone else to explain it.

 

Dore

 

 

From: robinec <robinec at austin.rr.com>

Date: Sat May 24, 2003  7:33:35 PM US/Central

To: "bryn-gwlad at ansteorra.org" <bryn-gwlad at ansteorra.org>

Subject: [Bryn-gwlad] Linen

 

You know, if you want cheaper linen that is a touch softer you can always

get the linen/rayon or linen/cotten blends offered at local fabric stores.

They breathe pretty well (not as well as the 100% stuff, but better than

cotton broadcloth). It is not as period, but the rayon blend does not

wrinkle and both blends tend to be softer.  Sometimes I can find this stuff

for really cheap at Joannes or Hancock (like $2.00 a yard) in really ugly

colors (seafoam green or bright orange).  They do take rit dye and turn out

pretty well if you dye them to a better color (orange fabric with dark red

dye becomes rust, and the green fabric mixed with blue or dark green dye

works well too)  However, avoid any other linen blends (like a poly blend)

as it will not breathe well at all, nor will it dye well.

 

For 100% linen, it can be softened by putting hair conditioner in your rinse

wash, but wait until after your garment is made to do that as it will also

stretch and move more after it is softened.  The linen is so stiff and

scratchy because the merchants put a lot of starch in it to keep it from

stretching on the bolt and that sometimes helps in construction because your

pattern shapes stay more true than they would otherwise.

 

Old, well worn, and washed linen is some of the softest fabric I have ever

handled.

 

For some wider trim selection, check out http://www.calontirtrim.com/

He has some really nice ones.

 

-Robin

 

 

From: James Crouchet <jtc at swordworks.org>

Date: Sun May 25, 2003  4:05:44 AM US/Central

To: bryn-gwlad at ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Bryn-gwlad] Linen

 

On Saturday 24 May 2003 07:33 pm, robinec wrote:

> You know, if you want cheaper linen that is a touch softer you can

> always get the linen/rayon or linen/Cotton blends offered at local

> fabric stores. They breathe pretty well (not as well as the 100% stuff,

> but better than cotton broadcloth). It is not as period, but the rayon

> blend does not wrinkle and both blends tend to be softer.

 

My experience has been different. I have one shirt with rayon in it and I

do not wear it because it makes me itch. I have a gray linen/cotton blend

shirt and I cannot tell that it is cooler than ordinary cotton. I can;t

claim a lot of experience with these; I don't wear them because I do not

like how they feel.

 

I do recommend washing and drying linen 3 times before you cut or sew it

because it does come heavily starched.

 

Dore

 

 

From: "ad4na" <ad4na at mail.ev1.net>

Date: Tue May 27, 2003  10:40:40 AM US/Central

To: <bryn-gwlad at ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Bryn-gwlad] Linen

 

> On Saturday 24 May 2003 07:33 pm, robinec wrote:

>> You know, if you want cheaper linen that is a touch softer you can

>> always get the linen/rayon or linen/Cotton blends offered at local

>> fabric stores. They breathe pretty well (not as well as the 100% stuff,

>> but better than cotton broadcloth). It is not as period, but the rayon

>> blend does not wrinkle and both blends tend to be softer.

 

I personally avoid the linen/rayon blends, the rayon makes them hot.  

Also, rayon shrinks at a higher rate than does linen, so unless you

want to always dry clean that particular piece, make sure you wash it

several times in warm water.  This will also change the hand of the

fabric, making it a little heavier and thicker.  Wrinkling is not an

issue, as linen has always wrinkled.  Cotton/linen blends are very

soft, but do not hold up as well as the pure linen.

 

> I do recommend washing and drying linen 3 times before you cut or sew

> it because it does come heavily starched.

 

Actually, the starch comes off in the first wash, especially if you use

hot water.  Flax linen is a very tough fiber and it takes a number of

washings to break it down a little.  I wash the piece of linen four or

five times in very hot water and use Milsoft (an industrial softener

available from Dharma) or regular Downy if I don't have Milsoft on

hand; dry it on hot between each washing.  This not only softens the

fibers, but makes your garment very washable.  Linen, like a number of

other natural fibers, tightens and fluffs up at the same time, changing

the hand of the piece.  You want to do this before you cut your garment

out.  Generally speaking, most linen we buy today is flax linen, but

there are other types of linen out there.  Very often you can find a

cotton/ramie blend or straight ramie linen--usually on a bargain table.

  Ramie is a linen made from the nettle plant.  It is period--they made

linen out of a number of fibers that we no longer use/cultivate.  

Modern ramie usually comes from India.  It is very scratchy, so I

recommend that if you use it for an underdress (kyrtle) or under tunic,

that you go completely period and make a soft linen smock to wear under

it.

 

Kate

--

Nan Bradford-Reid

 

 

From: robinec <robinec at austin.rr.com>

Date: Tue May 27, 2003  6:47:12 PM US/Central

To: "bryn-gwlad at ansteorra.org" <bryn-gwlad at ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Bryn-gwlad] Linen

 

I have garments made of 100% cotton (linen look) fabric which breath well,

and garments of the linen/cotton blend which breath better, and then 100%

linen garments which breathe the best.  My rayon/linen garments have never

itched (very soft to touch), or shrunk - but then again, I always wash in

cold - perhaps an allergy to rayon could explain some itching.  I have found

that the linen/rayon blend does not breath as well as cotton.

 

The 100% linen will actually wick, which cotton does not do as well in our

humidity - ie, it will absorb moisture off your body and dry quickly - wool

will also do this which is why it can often seem very cool to wear on a hot

day. Especially if the wool is not over-processed making it scratchy.

I know, it doesnÕt seem like wool would be a cool fabric, but it can be.

 

The problem I have with washing the linen before I cut fabric, is once it is

washed, and even if I spend hours re-startching and ironing it, the pieces

once cut, do not match up together.  This was a huge problem when I did

Conner's armor last time, where I had 3 layers for each piece and the middle

layer was cut on the bias.  When I do this with the unwashed linen, it is

not nearly so much of a wrestling match on my part.  Also, since I wash in

cold, shrinking is not much of an issue.  Yes, most of the startchy feel

comes out in the first wash, but we have distinctly noticed a difference in

'hand' of a garment washed 5 times and a garment washed 10 times, so I think

that repeated washing must do something to help make the linen less stiff.

I also noticed that the darker colors do not soften as quick as the lighter

colors - which is usually true of most fabrics as the dye process for dark

colors can cause the weave of the fabric to tighten.

 

-just my personal observations.

Robin

 

 

From: robinec <robinec at cox-internet.com>

Date: January 24, 2005 8:00:43 PM CST

To: "bryn-gwlad at ansteorra.org" <bryn-gwlad at ansteorra.org>

Subject: [Bryn-gwlad] Linen care - was  Of Linen and Gulf Wars

 

I have never had a problem washing or bleaching 100% linen.  Over the years

I have washed with Tide, Purex and Arm&Hammer depending on my current taste

in laundry soap, and when my husbands shirts or armor are particularly

smelly, I have even thrown in Borax for good measure. Borax is a water

softening agent that helps the water and soap get between the fibers of the

fabric to help them do their job better.   Vinegar can also help with smelly

linen and can be mixed with the Borax safely.  Stains and smells generally

come out of linen easier than cotton.

 

If you are concerned about using bleach on it (which I have done with good

results) you can also wash it with natural bleaching agents like peroxide or

lemon juice and lay it in the sun to bleach  (like our grandmothers did with

their fine linens) - this works wonderfully.  I do this sometimes when a

wash with a weak  bleach solution does not get out a stain, I apply spots of

lemon juice to the stains and lay it in the sun for several hours and

then throw it back in the wash for a good rinsing.

 

I find bleach destroys cotton sooner than linen, however I don't recommend

bleaching any fabric every time you wash, especially if it is not stained -

adding Borax to the wash or applying extra soap to your problem spots (like

armpits) works just as well.  I use bleach as my backup plan, not my primary

attack and even then I use a weak solution like 1/2 a cup to a full load of

laundry, or by applying it directly to the stain (with a q-tip or the

bleach gel pen).

 

If you must bleach, use bleach that is non-chlorine and non-phosphorus

(phosphates makes whiter than white blotches in sunlight). Besides,

chlorine bleach is very bad to have in your home environment anyway and can

cause lots of respiratory problems.  NEVER MIX CHLORINE BLEACH AND VINEGAR -

THIS CAN CREATE TOXIC CHLORIMINE GAS

See this website on dangerous household chemicals  -

http://www.ems.org/household_cleaners/four.html

I am probably sensitive to this since my husband is allergic to some

bleaches (particularly the ones marketed as 'color safe').

Now we have all sorts of other anti-bacterial cleaners available on the

market so there are plenty of non-hazardous options.

 

As to the comfort of linen - if it is stiff when newly cleaned and dried -

throw some hair conditioner in the rinse cycle and it will come out just

fine!  Softens it up a lot!

 

The linen is both warmer and cooler than cotton to wear because it wicks

moisture so well.  My linen garments have worn as well over time and

lasted as long as my cotton garments.

 

The only downsides I have found with linen are that rust stains (from

armor)

left on the linen will eventually eat a hole in the weave, if it is dyed

linen, you may want to wash it with like colors for a while because it can

bleed (use vinegar to lessen this) and finally, I prefer not to put it in

the dryer and I always wash on cold so I don't have to worry about

shrinkage (but that is true of cotton too).

 

For a regular wear (non-armor) chemise, I would use the lighter-weight

linen so it is not so bulky and heavy as the Judy weight.

 

-Robin (who loves linen for chemises and shirts)

 

on 1/23/05 8:18 AM,     Amanda Shields at ashields at apple.com wrote:

 

> But when it comes to underpinnings, ummm, while linen is comfy and

> period, and all that, I hate washing it all the time, especially in

> laundry detergents made for cottons. Don't even think about bleaching

> it. Yes, I suppose I could hand wash it in my copious spare time, but

> then I remember I lack copious spare time. While linen is great for

> outerwear, I'll be French before I wear a chemise that is merely

> Febreezed instead of scrupulously clean. So, unless it's an A&S

> project, my smalls shall be made of nice, washable, bleachable cotton!

>

> Anna

 

 

From: robinec <robinec at cox-internet.com>

Date: January 24, 2005 10:49:35 PM CST

To: "bryn-gwlad at ansteorra.org" <bryn-gwlad at ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Bryn-gwlad] Linen care - was  Of Linen and Gulf Wars

 

As someone so kindly pointed out to me, you also do not want to mix bleach

(a basic Ph) with ammonia or any other item that has an acid Ph.  This is

very very true.

 

I wanted to specify Vinegar though because I was pointing out its odor

removing virtue and thought someone might try to mix the two in their

laundry all unknowing.

 

Please don't mis-understand my motives, I do use these products, I just

think we should be aware of how and when we use them!

 

-Robin

 

 

From: elizabeth at crouchet.com

Date: January 25, 2005 11:31:34 AM CST

To: bryn-gwlad at ansteorra.org

Subject: RE: [Bryn-gwlad] Costuming help :) Linen

 

I find that even the stiff as a board linen, (unless is has been

starched that way) will

soften up nicely and be quite comfortable after exposue to about 5 or

10 minutes of body heat. I just go ahead and put it on.

 

My shirts are so stiff they can stand on their own if I line dry them, until I separate the sides so that I can put it on and that seems to begin the softening

process.

 

Linen also takes starch nicely. I often use a cold water starch solution brushed onto a collar or cuff then ironed to give me that period starched ruffle. This

leaves the rest of the garment all comfy. I would be surprised if it was not also done this way in period.

 

I wash all of my linen and only sometimes dry my shirts for

convenience. It all lasts a

whole lot longer and holds its color better if only line dried.

 

But machine washing is always fine. I can't wring out a as much water

as the spin cycle can and the spin cycle does not put undue stress on the fibers.

 

YMMV

 

Claire

 

On 25 Jan 2005 at 0:00, Nan Bradford-Reid wrote:

> http://www.dharmatrading.com/

>

> Great source for dyes (not natural dyes).  You can top-dye that linen

> into a color that's period/desirable.  You can also remove color

> that's too dark and either leave as is or dye it another color.  Linen

> is sturdy and takes dye extremely well.  You need to wash it several

> times before you dye it, though, since it comes with a buttload of

> finishing starches on it.

>

> After it is made up into your garment, it is now completely

> washable...but only put it in the dryer for a few minutes with a dryer

> sheet and then hang while still basically wet. smooth the wrinkles

> out by hand.  This gets a period finish that's not all bouncy like it

> would be if you dried it all the way.

>

> Kate

 

 

<the end>



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