coronets-msg - 1/17/08
Medieval coronets and crowns. SCA coronets and crowns.
NOTE: See also the files: jewelry-msg, beads-msg, gem-sources-msg, gloves-msg, headgear-msg, metals-msg, metalworking-msg.
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Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: zkessin at world.std.com (Zach)
Subject: Re: Crowns, Coronets, & Law
Organization: As little as posible
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 1994 22:29:30 GMT
blackhmr at alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Robert M Van Rens) writes:
>>Most of the SCA standards for coronets date to 1660.
>>
>>Guiliam
>Where would one look for such information? I certainly don't know where to
>begin...any suggestions anyone?
I got it from "A Complete Guide to Heraldry" by Arther Charles
Fox-Davies. Which is a good book to have and not to expensive.
(There is a chapter on coronets)
Guiliam
>Eadric Blackhammer
From: rorice at nickel.ucs.indiana.edu (rosalyn rice)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period Coronets! Help!
Date: 24 Oct 1995 02:26:06 GMT
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington
Check out Ottfried Neubecker's "Heraldry: Sources, Symbols, and
Meanings". It's got a lot of good color pictures of medieval and
renaissance crowns and coronets. For Byzantine, the definitive source
would be the frescoes from the Haigia Sophia that show Justinian and
Theodora. As I remember, the Byzantine crown was more of a bejewelled cap
with "earrings" hanging off of each side.
Lothar
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 18:03:59 -0500
From: theodelinda at webtv.net (linda webb)
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Stumpwork
The Victoria and Albert Museum has examples of Elizabethan guildmasters
crowns done in raised embroidery, which is the step before full-blown
stumpwork--These are velvet circlets with embroidery on them. The one I
recall best has a pattern of leaves and flowers, with a crest in the
center. I believe most, if not all, of the embroidery, including the
raised work, is in metal threads.--Theo
Subject: BG - Bryn Gwlad Coronets
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 98 23:22:25 MST
From: Dennis and/or Dory Grace <amazing at mail.utexas.edu>
To: bryn-gwlad at Ansteorra.ORG
Alina wrote:
>About Bryn Gwlad Baronial Coronets. Why not incorporate some, if not all
>insignias or devices that are the barony's and use them on and around the
>baronial coronets. It would definitely help identify and let everyone know
>what barony our baron and baroness are from. Suggestion: Look at all baronial
>devices.Figure out which and what looks the best and with what. End result is
>the design for the baronial coronets.
I rather like this idea. I wonder how well the badge/device elements would
go together in such a way; I bet it would make for a very impressive set of
coronets.
BTW, if anyone is interested, you're welcome to take a close look at our
coronets. I really like the way the pearls were designed and
applied--they're all easily replacable. Small brass tubes were soldered
behind each point, a slightly smaller brass tube slips into the soldered
tube (fitting quite tightly) which accomodates a brass hat pin. Slip a
pearl onto the hat pin, insert a small bit of sticky wax into the brass
tubes, and insert the pearl-on-a-pin into the brass tube. Voila'. Very
nice. (Especially for someone like me who tends to be just a weeeeeeeee bit
prone to crack or knock the pearls off on occassion (gotta stop that
head-butting in the circles ;->).
Aquilanne
Subject: BG - new coronets
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 98 11:20:10 MST
From: Chris Yone <cyone at sprd1.mdacc.tmc.edu>
To: Bryn-Gwlad list <bryn-gwlad at Ansteorra.ORG>
here are some sources for crown examples (though mostly royal) that are
online.
http://www.royal.gov.uk/history/anglos.htm
(this site may take some time to load -I thought it was slow on a T1, may
have been a bad connection) Picturse and a little about English rulers
through the centuries.
Medieval England 3
they are selling these plates, but the online versions are worth looking at.
they do give some mention of sources-though very broad.
Another thing to consiter that I think adds grace and sophistication to
crowns and coronets is a velvet cap underneath. It was done in England by
the 15th c. and was used by royalty and nobles. The main distinction
between the royal circlets and others was that royalty had more (and bigger)
gemstones and semi precious stones and detail. Royalty also had the crossing
hoops topped with an orb by the 15th c.
Kirsten MacDonald
From: geard at clear.net.nz (J Geard)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Masters' Crowns
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 09:33:10 GMT
Greetings all, from Alys;
I quote from "Elizabethan Embroidery" (London: Faber, 1963) by George
Wingfield Digby, who was Keeper of Textiles at the Victoria & Albert
Museum:
"CROWNS (City Livery Companies)
"Crowns, usually of embroidered velvet, were used for crowning the
masters at ceremonies of the Courts of the Livery Companies of London.
The following crowns are still in the possession of the Companies: the
Carpenters, dated 1561; the Girdlers, from the second half of the 16th
century; the Broderers, second half of the 16th century; and the
Parish Clerks, a pair, dated 1601. The last are on permanent loan to
the Victoria and Albert Museum, but are withdrawn twice a year for the
Company's dinners.
"These crowns are of particular interest because they are typical
examples of professional embroidery of the period; unquestionably this
must be so in the case of the Broderers' own Company, and one of their
two crowns is here illustrated, Pl. 11 (the other is in slightly less
good condition). It is a crown of tawny-orange velvet and is
embroidered with a rich floral pattern in which silver and gold in a
great variety of threads and strips have been used, together with
coloured silks, also with seed pearls, though these have now almost
entirely disappeared; the use of silver strips in place of sequins is
noteworthy. The method of embroidery is prinicipally couched work,
with a certain amount of raised work. The centre of the crown has the
Company's badge of the dove in a shaped cartouche. Inside the crown
embroidered in large letters on the same velvet is the motto 'Omnia de
Super'."
The crown shown is made from a band of stiffened and lined velvet
about 2 inches high. It's heavily encrusted with naturalistic
fruit-flowers-and-foliage raised embroideries, and in the centre-front
the embroidered Broderers' badge looks very stylish (although it also
looks like a bird pinned out on a sun-patterned dissection plate).
From what I can see of the motto inside the crown it's in large
upper-case letters in a Roman serifed font.
My first though when I found references to the embroidered crowns of
masters and aldermen was "Way cool: how are they made?" My second
thought was "Was it just the Broderers Company which used an
embroidered crown?", to which the answer appears to be "No". My third
was "Here's something that could be used in peerage ceremonies for
Laurels and Pelicans (who don't seem to get nearly as much regalia as
Knights)."
Of course it's more complicated than that. It may be that a Company
only ever had one or two crowns which were used by the Company's
ranking master(s) at special events. It may have been a
late-period-only practice. And it's another thing that would tie the
arts and service peerages to the model of the medieval craft guild or
livery company: essentially a middle- and artisan-class model with
quite different connotations to the aristocratic model of knighthood.
But I still think it's neat, and I still think the Pelicans and
Laurels get shortchanged on symbolism and regalia, so...
Does anyone out there know anything more about masters' crowns, and
has anyone used them or known of their use in the SCA?
Alys le Chaunster
From: The Jones' <lochmor at ix.netcom.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Looking for merchant
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 13:17:23 -0400
I'm hoping someone can help me. I am looking for a merchant that I have
seen at past Pennsic Wars. This lady made the most wonderful coronets.
They were very delicate looking some with floral patterns and some just
silver. I'm looking to purchase a coronet and always thought that if I
ever had occasion to purchase one, I would like one of hers.
Unfortunatly, I did not see her booth at this past Pennsic. She made
other jewelry too. If you can help me, either reply to the newsgroup or
directly to me.
Baroness Genevieve Macpherson
mka Diane Jones
lochmor at ix.netcom.com
From: satyrsong at aol.com (SATYRSONG)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Looking for merchant
Date: 17 Apr 1998 23:26:12 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
I believe the person you are looking for is Jan Wyman of Crafty Fox.
Her wares were there last year, in Ashton's Dragon Heart tent. Some times she
goes to the war as a solo merchant, some times not.
The last address I have for her is:
P O Box 471
E. Hamstead, N.H. 03826
SS
Subject: RE: ANST - Vague Laws
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 98 07:03:22 MST
From: John Ruble <ulf at urocor.com>
To: "'ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG'" <ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG>
Sir Alrek said:
> 2.Engrailed coronets. They may have no more than six "points" or
> projections, which may be surmounted by spherical projections of no
> more than 1/2 inch diameter, and must have a smoothly concave outline
> between each "point", so as to clearly distinguish them from County
> coronets.
>
> In part 2. what does surmounted mean?
In this case, I believe it means "topped". Early period coronets show
"pearls on a stick" for some coronets. The pearls are stuck on the
points. The kingdom sumptuary laws are more concerned with the
silhouette than anything else, so this makes sense. Of course, you could
always decorate it with pearls.
The problem is their were no sumptuary laws recorded until late in
period. The rule of thumb was to not make a coronet that was more
impressive than those worn by higher ranking nobles. Check out
Fox-Davies for a good discussion.
Ulf
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:55:01 -0600
From: <marsha.greene at mpan.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: circlets
>Hi all! Last week I started a silversmithing course. Since we basicely get
>to do what we want and the silver is fairly inexpensive I was planning on
>making myself a circlet. Do any of you knowledgable folks know where I can
>find some pictures of authentic 13-15 century circlets. Since I'm in
>Drachenwald I don't need to think about sumptuary laws that much (I'm a
>Lady).
>Anna de Byxe
I have not found a book dedicated primarily to circlets and crowns as yet
(if there is one let me know). Most of the historical inspiration I have
received have been from illuminations, paintings, sculptures/funeral
statuaries and jewelry/enameling books. But, I would imagine that being in
Drachenwald, you would have many primary sources of museum items to
consider and possibly from historical crown jewel displays.
If you choose to create a closed circlet, you may want to place your
closure seam at the side of the circlet, over one ear, instead of at the
back of the circlet. This will create less stress on the joint, and may be
more comfortable. You can cover the seam up with a bezel-set stone or
applique metal. Consider 20g metal or less, else you may be wearing a
'headache'. But, not so lightweight that you compromise structural
integrity.
I strongly suggest you check with your heralds regarding any sumptuary
laws. While they may not be written down, there may be strongly held
traditions that the Kingdom follows. And if you are currently in
Drachenwald, is it possible that you will not be in the future? Not all
Kingdoms will allow you to 'Grandfather' your coronet in your new Kingdom,
should you move; even if it was perfectly acceptable where you made it.
Save yourself some grief, check ahead.
Without wanting to get into a discussion of Sumptuary Laws, my Kingdom,
Ansteorra, does not recognize the law of metal circlets for AOA's
(Lord/Lady), Anyone can wear one up to 1/2 in. width (though personally, I
like the idea of AOA's getting a silver circlet allowed... helps one know
how to address the person). Baronies are flat top or 6 pearl point
coronets. Counts (1Crown) are Dovetailed or Embattled points and Dukes (2+
Crowns) are Strawberry Leaf Points. Good luck,
Bn. Hillary Greenslade Canton of Westgate/Barony of Stargate/Kingdom of
Ansteorra
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 01:09:39 EST
From: <Aralyn67 at aol.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: circlets
marsha.greene at mpan.com writes:
> I have not found a book dedicated primarily to circlets and crowns as yet
> (if there is one let me know). Most of the historical inspiration I have
> received have been from illuminations, paintings, sculptures/funeral
> statuaries and jewelry/enameling books. But, I would imagine that being
> in Drachenwald, you would have many primary sources of museum items to
> consider and possibly from historical crown jewel displays.
I've seen a nice coffee table book by a Northern European Prince (real
one not Scadian, but I can't remember of where) detailing the Crown Jewels of
Europe. Not everything was period but it had lots of Crowns and Coronets from
well within the allowable time table. Not much suited to non Royal peers
though. It's a very pretty book, lots of great photos.
Aralyn Thorgrimsdottir
AEthelmearc
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 16:41:58 -0500
From: Carol Thomas <scbooks at neca.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: circlets
> I've seen a nice coffee table book by a Northern European Prince (real
>one not Scadian, but I can't remember of where) detailing the Crown Jewels of
>Europe.
>Aralyn Thorgrimsdottir
Prince Michael of Greece?
The title was, of course, Crown Jewels of Europe, from Harper & Rowe.
Lady Carllein
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:21:09 +1200
From: Peter Grooby <Peter.Grooby at trimble.co.nz>
To: "'sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu'" <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: RE: fastening pearls?
Anna Troy [SMTP:Anna.Troy at bibks.uu.se] wrote:
> I just have the rugh polishing of my circlet to do before adding the stones
> (it'll be four small garnets) I also have some baroque pearls. Now I know
> you fasten them with wire that has a small head but that's only on the
> front. How do I fasten the wire on the back after I've treaded it through
> the hole in the circlet. I can't solder it'cause that would damage the
> pearl and I would like to avoid glueing. I have some good pictures of
> medieval jewellery but none where I can see the back. Help!
I did this recently. They were small pearls, and the holes were very small.
I used brass pins (for lace making) for the pearls.
I had holes drilled in the circlet. I just bent over half an inch of pin on
the back of the circlet and glued in place. There was a lining added to the
back of the circlet, so the pins were covered.
No documentation for this, I just made it up.
Vitale
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Grooby pgrooby at trimble.co.nz -=0 0=-/
Trimble Navigation http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3069 |_{|}/ /
Christchurch, NZ. _| \
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 09:57:05 -0800 (PST)
From: H B <nn3_shay at yahoo.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: fastening pearls?
---Anna Troy <Anna.Troy at bibks.uu.se> wrote:
>I also have some baroque pearls. Now I know
> you fasten them with wire that has a small head but that's only on the
> front. How do I fasten the wire on the back after I've treaded it through
> the hole in the circlet. I can't solder it'cause that would damage the
> pearl and I would like to avoid glueing. I have some good pictures of
> medieval jewellery but none where I can see the back. Help!
>
> Anna de Byxe
Anna -- Yes, soldering the pins on with the pearls in place will
damage the pearls; the trick is, you solder on a pin (length of wire)
WITHOUT a head, long enough to pass completely through the pearl with
1/4 to 1/2 inch extra, and then slide the pearl on and trim the wire
to more like 1/8 inch (2-3mm) beyond the end. Peen a head on the pin
that will hold the pearl there -- like a rivet. Use wire as big as
will fit through your drill hole.
I don't know if glue was used in period or not, but I wouldn't be at
all surprised; it's used currently when fixing half-drilled pearls and
other gemstone beads to earring posts and such. Good luck!
Harriet
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 17:34:14 -0400
From: Irene leNoir <irene at ici.net>
To: <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Re: bead work
Thora wrote:
>Would you please elaborate on the documentation? I am familiar with the
>circlet in the painting that was featured in the 1995 Medieval Women
>calendar. Irene put it on-line at:
>
>http://home.ici.net/~beowulf/jessica/beadwork/images/beauty.jpg
>
>But it's not clear to me whether this detail represents an idealized,
>allegorized, or realistic depiction.
and Daniella replied:
>I'm sorry to say you would have to ask Irene that information. For I am
>basing my studies on the actual portraits. It looks to me to be as close to
>exact as possible from what all I have studied. Close attention was paid to
>detail and jewelry.
To fess up... I don't know whether the coronet depicted in the painting
in question is allegorical or not.
Admittedly, the woman wearing the coronet is a Saint, and I have not yet
found a full view of the painting in order to compare the entirety of her
outfit to reality.
On the other hand, I find myself suspecting that if the coronet were
completely made up and not based on some existing example, the artist
wouldn't have gone to the trouble to so accurately depict the separate
beads and the different methods of construction that they are put
together with.
My opinion only... add salt to taste.
Jessica Clark
SCA: Irene leNoir
From: rlobinske at aol.com (Richard Lobinske)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Date: 19 Dec 2000 18:41:50 GMT
Subject: Re: Circlets
>Does anyone have a source for metal circlets. I used to deal with Ingasbo
>but all I get now is an 404 error.
You can make simple circlets out of strip stirling silver (I use 1/4 or 1/2
inch). I order from Rio Grande, but any other source will do. After
determining desired size, you can hand form around an anvil horn or a lenght of
pipe. The ends can be soldered together for a fixed size, or you can use
round-nose pliers to turn the ends in a small loop, then thread some cloth or
leather through to tie off.
Victor Hildebrand vonn Koln
mka Richard Lobinske
Trimaris
From: Tanya Guptill <tguptill at teleport.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Making a Coronet--new web page
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 13:37:53 -0700
Noble friends,
HL Conor O'droi has webbed the process he used for making a coronet for
me. It can be found at http://www.teleport.com/~sca/conor/coronet.html
, if you are interested.
Warmly,
Mira Silverlock
From: Bert Garwood <garwoodbert at qwest.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: baronial coronet needed-
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 19:50:40 -0500
For really pretty stuff, see:
http://www.ne.infi.net/~fcderosa/
Of course, it is priced accordingly.
Berwyn
From: Tanya Guptill <tguptill at teleport.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: baronial coronet needed-
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:28:50 -0700
You may want to check out:
http://www.dragonsjewels.com/crown1.htm
http://www.signetring.com/Coronet/Coronet_how_to_make/coronet_how_to_make.htm
http://www.teleport.com/~sca/conor/coronet.html
Mira Silverlock
From: "Elaine Koogler" <ekoogler011 at home.com>
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] OT....Search for a Coronet
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 09:26:00 -0500
>I am seeking a source or crafter for Coronets. Any and all
> sugestons welcome !!!
> Aethelwulf
If you are looking for early period designs, go to The Crafty Celts. Master
Vortigern does wonderful early period work...fairly expensive, but
exquisitely done. Another really good source is Drachenstein Treasures.
Master Lothar does wonderful stuff as well, though later in period.
Drachenstein can be reached at www.dragonsjewels.com, and the Crafty Celt at
www.craftycelts.com. Under no circumstances should you have anything to do
with Jan Wyman at Crafty Fox. I have found her to be a dishonest merchant
who doesn't live up to her contracts. I have yet to receive a ring that I
ordered 4 years ago...stupidly paid in full in advance...despite numerous
requests, one in person, for either the ring or my money returned.
Kiri
From: Billfog1 at aol.com
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 09:44:57 EST
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Coronets...
I got my coronet from Master Lothar at Drachenstein Treasures and it is
absolutely beautiful! It was done on time and the price was fair. I
definitely recommend him!
Suzanne
From: Burke McCrory <burkemc at cox.net>
Date: May 30, 2006 10:22:10 PM CDT
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Warlord news
I though I would post this site again as these people make some very
nice simple "light weight" coronets.
Burke
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 14:45:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Katheline van Weye <kat_weye at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] OT: Coronet Merchant Recommendation
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
It's time for me to begin the search for a coronet merchant as my husband and I
are halfway through our landed baroness/baron term and will need personal
coronets when we step down (should Their Majesties deem us worthy of the
Bannthegn/Thegn positions at that time). I haven't really seen the style of
coronet I like from any of the artisans in Atenveldt so I thought I would
search further out. My preference is for either a pierced metal or etched
"lacy" design as my ultimate goal is to have a coronet with a traditional
Elizabethan blackwork design on it. I find the various "vine" coronets out
there to be quite lovely but with all of the soldering on them I am very
worried about breakage so I do not think those styles will do for me. I do not
care for the hinged coronets as our Barony has one set of those and all they do
is rip out my hair.
The Apples and Flowers Coronet on Craft Fox at
http://www.craftyfox.com/coronets/sterling-silver.html is a good example of the
pierced design that I like. Drachenstein Treasures also shows a pierced
coronet at http://www.dragonsjewels.com/bar31.jpg. A simple etched coronet on
Drachenstein Treasures is at http://www.dragonsjewels.com/bar45.jpg.
Any suggestions or recommendations for merchants? I turn to you all because
though I see a lovely coronet on a website, it doesn't guarantee that the
merchant is able to produce such a coronet again in the time frame we need or
with the same quality. But you all know which merchants have done well by you
and which haven't so I hope you can help me with this quest.
Katheline van Weye
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 20:15:40 -0400
From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1 at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT: Coronet Merchant Recommendation
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
I have one of Drachenstein's coronets...not one of the ones you showed,
but one that is a Pelican/Laurel combination. I really enjoy working
with them...Master Lothar is a consummate craftsman and takes a great
deal of pride in his work. I can't be sure, but I believe that Crafty
Fox is the company I had a great deal of trouble with some years back.
I ordered a ring from them...stupidly prepaid for the whole thing, and
never got my ring or my money. This transaction happened at Pennsic.
Their work is exquisite, which is why this bothered me so much. I have
purchased several Pelican medallions and a coronet from them...so was
really stunned when they treated me in such a cavalier fashion. I know
that other folks from Atlantia had problems with them as well. If it
were I, I would go with Drachenstein...great work, reliable and honest.
Kiri
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 08:23:01 -0400
From: wildecelery at aol.com
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Coronet
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Try Willofyre Studios as well. Mistress Safia does stunning work.
www.willofyre.com
-Ardenia
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 22:01:06 -0400
From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1 at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT: Coronet Merchant Recommendation
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Michael Gunter wrote:
> You might like the work of my squire's lady. She is getting to be pretty well
> known for her coronets. She made both the coronets you usually saw me wear
> and knows how to do hinged right. You know my hair and it has never gotten
> caught in mine.
>
> http://home.texoma.net/~bperkins/gallery.html
>
> The coronets are posted in the jewelry section and you can see she can
> fit a variety of styles.
>
> Gunthar
Gunthar,
Her work is wonderful! I'll keep her pages bookmarked in case I run
across anyone else who needs a pointy hat!
Kiri
From: Chris Zakes <dontivar at gmail.com>
Date: November 10, 2007 10:22:43 PM CST
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Ducal Perogative
At 11:15 AM 11/10/2007, Robin wrote:
> "robert segrest" wrote:
>> At any rate, I am continually amazed that a system of governance that
>> theoretically should be one of the worst possible methods for choosing
>> leaders seems to usually produce high quality administration, not
>> only from our monarchs, but also from the officers they appoint.
>
> The SCA is a volunteer organization, and the principles of government are
> different. The essential control over the government is not the
> vote, but the fact that we can always walk away.
Precisely. Engraved on the inside of the Crowns of Caid are the
words: "You rule because they believe." That's a good thing for *any*
Crown to keep in mind.
-Tivar Moondragon
<the end>
