scabbards-msg - 2/7/08
Making sword scabbards. Different types. References.
NOTE: See also the files: swordcare-msg, swordsmiths-msg, knife-sheaths-msg,
bladesmithing-msg, armor-msg, swords-msg, leather-msg, lea-tanning-msg.
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From: sirb at hevanet.com (Phred Meyer)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Making a Scabbard
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 21:23:34 -0800
Organization: Sir Blackhand
mikes at nickel.ucs.indiana.edu (michael squires) wrote:
(To make a scabbard)
> As it was explained to me:
>
> 1. Get two pieces of wood, about 1/4" thick, about 1/4" larger than the sword
> in all dimensions (length vs width). Carve out a hole for the sword; today
> one would use a router.
>
> 2. Using cloth tape soaked in glue with the sword inserted wrap the two pieces
> of wood just like an SCA rattan sword.
>
> 3. Let dry, then cover with leather and add fittings. A chape can be made
> from hobby store sheet brass.
>
> 4. I've heard that adding an oiled leather lining (so that the sword is in
> contact with oil all the time) is a Good Thing, but that one has to avoid
> leather tanned using acids for obvious reasons.
Greetings from Y Blackhand,
I have been making swords and scabbards for several years. Here is my
(condensed version) method of scabbard making.
1. Rout out the two pieces of wood for a loose fit of the sword to
within one and one half inch of the throat. Carve the throat to fit the
sword closley so it dosen't rattle in the finished scabbard.
2. Finish the inside of the scabbard with varnish to stop moisture from
reaching the blade. Glue the two pieces together with woodworking glue.
3. Shape the outside as desired. Varnish or cover with thin leather. As
an alternative to metal fittings use heavy leather bands at the throat,
middle and drag.
Do not use leather, sheepskin, cloath or anything else that will wipe
the blade. Any thing used will collect dirt and grit that will scratch the
blade.
For the game we play,
Y Blackhand KSCA OL OP
Omnia Pecuniae
--
Y Blackhand KSCA,OL,OP
Omnia Pecuniae
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: gl8f at fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Greg Lindahl)
Subject: Re: Making a Scabbard
Organization: Department of Astronomy, University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 23:29:22 GMT
Michael Greenstein <zarquon at platinum.nb.net> wrote:
>I love the SCA!). One trick I was told, and used to good advantage,
>is that a basic sheath has three layers of leather: front and back
>panels, and a middle piece that is U-shaped, where the inside of the "U"
>is the shape of the blade. This way, when you sheath your blade, you
>are cutting into leather rather than cutting into stitches.
Baron Silver, an Atlantian who does a lot of leather, makes sheaths
out of a single piece of leather, stitched down the back. Thus, it's 1
piece, uses half the sinew for stitching it up, and also has this
property that the stitches can't get cut. I don't know what his
documentation is, but he claims it's historical.
So how do you make it? Well, you make it with the stitches down one
side, and then you get it wet and re-bend it such that the stitches
are in the center of the back... the bottom needs a tiny bit of
reinforcement.
Gregory Blount
From: david.razler at compudata.com (DAVID RAZLER)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Making a Scabbard
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 95 20:55:00 -0400
Organization: Compu-Data BBS -=- Turnersville, NJ -=- 609-232-1245
GL>Michael Greenstein <zarquon at platinum.nb.net> wrote:
GL>>I love the SCA!). One trick I was told, and used to good advantage,
GL>>is that a basic sheath has three layers of leather: front and back
GL>>panels, and a middle piece that is U-shaped, where the inside of the
GL>"U" >is the shape of the blade. This way, when you sheath your
GL>blade, you >are cutting into leather rather than cutting into
GL>stitches.
The major problem is not cutting the leather but damaging the knife.
Leather is generally acid-tanned (oak galls and bark the original
source)
And acid is not good at all for steel.
So you have two choices: make an all-leather scabbard and keep the knife
out of it when you're not carrying, or making a scabbard that looks like
it is all leather but has a hidden plastic or wooden interior. I have
had good luck with basswood, sealed over the entire inner surface with
"crazy glue" then covering it with leather of one's choice.
I still do not keep anything in scabbards any longer than necessary
except my "hanger" cheap shortsword and a neat little souvenier my dad
picked up in Japan (metal lined with wood)
I seal the wood now because of an unfortunate experience at Pennsic when
a cloth-covered wooden scabbard got a little damp, and pitted the 440
steel inside. Lots of Neverdull cleaned it up pretty well, but I do NOT
ever again want to see a hand-forged blade a victim of acid or water.
In Service to Sharp Objects,
Aleksandr the Traveller
[david.razler at compudata.com]
From: doug_brunner at hp-corvallis.om.hp.com (Doug Brunner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Scabard? how to?
Date: 27 Mar 1996 00:55:58 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard Inkjet Comp. Div.
I guess it depends on what you're looking for. I've made pieces similar to
what most people look for. But, I've made them completely from wood. I use
something like a maple burl. These are pretty much show pieces. I can do
some pretty fancy inlay work on these. They're made to be hung over the mantle,
with the sword, on a display case.
One way I've heard of is pretty straiaght forward, but a bit awkward. Make the
actual sheath from a light, hard wood. Birch wouldn't be bad, or maybe ash. This
is so you don't tear up the interior of the sheathe. Take two pieces, about
2" longer and 3/4" wider than your blade, and about 1/2' thick. Make sure the
surfaces of these boards are planed and clean!! You'll have to glue them together, later. This is how I make mine.
Now, for this to work MEASURE CAREFULLY!!! Lay the sword on one piece. Center it, with the hilt sitting flush on the edge. Trace the blade, giving it a little bit around the outside edge. Maybe about 1/8". Now, duplicate the same drawing on the other piece.
If you're not sure about being accurate, make a pattern from a piece of panelling, and use that. Then, use a chisel (I use a router), and clear out the wood to make a pocket for the blade. Each piece has to be cut out to just a hair over one half the thickness of the blade. Sand these smooth. Then tape the pieces together and check for fit. You may have to do this often, to ensure a good fit. Once you have a good fit, meaning no rattle and no drag, coat the area of the blade with something like a very thin epoxy or superglue. This prevents the interior from getting cut up, easily. I've also heard of using rawhide, but it's thicker and needs more clearance. So, the scabbard must be thicker.
Align the pieces, glue them together and clamp them. A decent wood glue like TiteBond II is quite sufficient. As far as clamping, it just means equal pressure. Some masking tape and some heavy wights will work. You just want ALL of the surfaces to match. WARNING: If you use a lot of glue, it'll leak into the interior and screw up your sword area. Apply a THIN, even coat. This leakage
is called "Glue Squeeze Out".
Once it's dried, round over the end. This is what the extra 2" was for. If you followed the exact shape of the blade, you'd still be OK. But, that end gets banged a bit. I like to have a little more material, just in case. And, if you decide to add a brass or steel tip, there's something for the brad, besides the end of your blade. Then, round over the edges.
Next, locate some leather of your choice. Make sure it's a little thin, but strong. Sew a "SNAKE". This is a long sleeve. It just happens to be the same circumference and length as that piece of wood you've been working on. It should also round over on the end, just like the wood. Make sure the wood is sanded smooth, and that the "SNAKE" is a tight fit. Soak the leather until it's pliable. (Obviously, this is not a good procedure for suede. ) Coat the wood with a THIN coat of glue. Slide the wood into the leather sleeve. If you're good, it'll be a snug fit. The glue will also act like a lubricant, with the wet leather. Pull it up tight and let it dry. I would suggest using really small
tacks and secure the leather to the top. Then, you can get a brass or steel plate for the top. This keeps the blade from wearing the leather, and hides your tacks. Brass or steel loops can be added for straps and belts. Someplace like TANDY LEATHER carries a lot of this.
I know this is a bit long winded, but you wanted details. I hope I haven't frightened you off of this project. Just remember to be careful, take your time and do your best to be accurate. Some things like sanding can be boring as Hell. I keep a picture in my head of what this hunk of tree will look like when I'm done. It can be inspirational. I find the personal saisfaction of
completing a well done piece to be quite addictive.
Bruno vonBrunner
Woods Crafter/Merchant
An Tir
mka:
Doug Brunner, owner
Brunner's Woods and Crafts
lebanon, Or.
bwc at proaxis.com
From: Kim Pollard <kim at inna.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Scabard? how to?
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 20:07:52 -0500
On 26 Mar 1996, Terry Aucoin wrote:
> Well I have just been given a very nice Sword by a good friend of mine. but
> dont have a Scabard to put it in! What is the best method to build to
> build one ?
> -
> TERRY AUCOIN HDXQ27A at prodigy.com
There are two ways you could go about creating a scabbard for
your sword. Both are equally challenging, but one is slightly less work
than the other (as long as you have the proper tools).
The first, easiest method is to use wood wrapped in leather.
A) Make a pattern of your sword by laying it upon a large piece of paper
(cheap newsprint is good - graph paper taped together is better to keep
those lines straight). Be sure to allow at least a quarter inch or more
(3/8" is better!) around the edges. This space will be used for the
spacer pieces (I know there are technical terms for all these piece, but
I only know how to make one, not label one! (:>
B) Choose your wood... if you are going to wrap this in leather, do not
use wood any thicker than a quarter inch (don't forget, you are adding
two pieces at 1/4" each, plus at least 3/16" for blade width, then on top
of that, another 1/8" to 1/4" of leather - depending on if you will want
to tool it or not) - and you already have almost an inch thick sheath!
On the other hand... don't get anything thiner than 1/8" <-- and that
should be GOOD HARDWOOD. You want something that will protect you from
that blade if (for some STRANGE reason) you or someone else falls on it!
C) Cut the wood from your pattern. If you think the pattern is a little
irregular, reverse the second piece so it mirrors the first. Next, cut a
thin strip to go down the edge of each piece (the "seperators"). This
can be tricky, because you must match the curve at the bottom of the
sheath if you've followed the blade's point, as well as allow for a snug
fit to keep your blade from sliding out of the sheath on it's own. (If
this is too confusing... give me an address and I'll mail you diagrams!)
D) BEFORE YOU GLUE ANYTHING... Clamp the pieces together and sheath your
sword. If it seems too loose, either 1> recut the seperators and try
again, or 2> think about lining the interior with something like sheepskin
(trimmed to 1/4" works great). Lining the interior works well and is
period - it kept the blade dry and, because sheeps wool contains a
natural source of lanolin, helped prevent rust.
E) Once you are satisfied with the fit of the blade, you may glue all the
pieces together. I recommend standard wood glue and upholstery tacks for
the wood & some type of Contact Cement for the sheepskin lining (Barge's
works wonders and is now available in tube form in many shoe shops and
leather stores!).
F) YOU MAY NOW STAIN YOUR SHEATH, or glue another layer of leather to
the outside. If you only want something pretty, try a chrome tanned
leather. Chrome tanning will not allow the leather to be carved or
stretched, but it is durable. If you wish to carve the leather with a
device or design of some sort, you will need a vegetable tanned leather
at least 4 oz. I have worked with thinner carving leather and was not
impressed with the end result - it is simply too thin to hold a good
imprint. Also, if you carve a design, make sure you 'finish' the leather
with a good water repellant! Otherwise you will pick up ever ding,
scratch and dent you can imagine, ruining several hours of work!
CREATING A LEATHER SCABBARD is basically the same, except you would have
to sew it, rather than glue it together. If you have ever sewn several
layers of leather together before, you will realize how much of a pain it
is to go through 3/4" to an inch! It can be done... but it's not fun! >;Q
Hope this was insightful! (or at least somewhat useful) :)
Yours In Service
Kimberly
From: moondrgn at bga.com (Chris and Elisabeth Zakes)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Scabard? how to?
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 07:37:51 GMT
HDXQ27A at prodigy.com (Terry Aucoin) wrote:
> Well I have just been given a very nice Sword by a good friend of mine. but
>dont have a Scabard to put it in! What is the best method to build to
>build one ?
>-
> TERRY AUCOIN HDXQ27A at prodigy.com
I use the "leather sandwich" method.
Start with a piece of heavy leather (12-oz or so), trace your sword
blade on it, adding about 1/4 inch. Make two pieces like that, and a
third that is like a very long "V" about 1/4 inch wide. Use a rotary
leather punch (the pliers-type) set to its smallest size to make a
series of holes about 1/4" apart around the edges of all 3 pieces. Sew
the V between the two outer pieces. I use 18 gauge wire (which is a
bit of overkill, but the blade will *never* cut through) or you can
use waxed leather-sewing thread, which is much quicker, but not as
strong.
It's time-consuming, but relatively easy to do, and doesn't require a
lot of specialized tools.
-Tivar Moondragon
C and E Zakes
Tivar Moondragon (Patience and Persistence)
and Aethelyan of Moondragon (Decadence is its own reward)
moondrgn at bga.com
From: IMC at vax2.utulsa.EDU (Marc Carlson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: re: Scabard? How To?
Date: 26 Mar 1996 17:08:55 -0500
<HDXQ27A at prodigy.com (Terry Aucoin)>
>Well I have just been given a very nice Sword by a good friend of mine.
>but don't have a Scabard to put it in! What is the best method to build to
>build one ?
Although it risks making me look like some kind of "know-it-all" , might I
suggest something fairly simple. Measure the length and max width and
depth of the blade, add about an eighth to a quarter of an inch to that.
Divide the modified depth measurement in half. Go to the local hardware/
home remodeling store and find a strip of wood at least twice as long
as the blade, and as close to the modified width and even more modified
depth. If in doubt, get bigger (a 2x4 can be whittled down, but a
1/8x4 can't be built up very easily. I do not advise oak, as it is somewhat
acidic and can chew up your blade over a few years.
Take the wood, cut it in half and trace out the blade on both halves.
Using whatever tools you have available remove the wood that is filling
the part where the sword will go, leaving at least 1/8th" of wood on
three of the sides (no, I don't think you're stupid, but I have seen people
just go ahead and clear out all that wood to make a very big, useless fork)
Some people use a table saw to do this, I use a wood carver's scoop. It's
a matter of personal preference (although the table saw IS a bit more
efficient).
When you are done, fit the two pieces together, rubberband them tightly
and then slid the sword in. If it binds or stops, you have still got
wood to remove someplace (you might try looking for slick spots in the
wood where the sword rubbed against it. if you don't see anything, dirty
up the blade with anything (vaseline, chalk dust, charcoal, whatever)
that will leave a mark where the blade is touching the wood).
(BTW, if you want to line it, take some more wood out. If you live in
an area where you are going to have changes in humidity, take even more
out.)
When you have the two sides completely fitted internally, separate them,
and trim down and taper ONE side only to whatever "scabbard shape" you
want.
If you want it lined with parchment, cloth, fleece, whateever, do that now
(I suggest using glue, and no tacks, unless you want to risk scratching
up the blade. I do *not* know what was done in period for this. Do NOT
use a water soluable glue) and let it sit for as long as is suggested
on the container of glue.
Then glue the thing together, clamp it tightly and let it sit
for whatever duration is suggested on the glue container. If you are
using yellow carpenter's glue, let it sit for at least *3 days* before
you work on it again (you can unclamp it before that, but the glue will
soften with the heat of working on it if you mess with it before it
fully cures).
Make sure the sword still fits at this point. If it doesn't fit, figure out
why and fix it. If it means taking the thing apart and redoing part of
it so be it.
Finally, using the side you've already done as a guide, trim down the other
side to match. Taking the tool of your choice (power sander and carpenter's
rasp are both popular choices) shape the rest of the exterior.
At this point, you can decorate it, tightly sew a leather covering over it,
stain it, oil it, carve on it, set little silver bands on it, whatever.
I have no clue how to set a chape, though I wish I did.
Mounting it for wearing will depend on how you "finish" it, and how interested
you are in authenticity.
"Authenticity is not a matter Diarmuit Ui Dhuinn
of money, but of time" University of Northkeep/Company of St. Jude
-- Unknown Recreator Northkeepshire, Ansteorra
(I. Marc Carlson/IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu)
From: masters at nwlink.com (Tom Gibson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Scabard? How To?
Date: 30 Mar 1996 03:28:18 GMT
Organization: Northwest Link
Marc Carlson (IMC at vax2.utulsa.EDU) wrote:
: When you are done, fit the two pieces together, rubberband them tightly
Ah HA! NON-PERIOD MATERIALS! (the band, not the rubber)
Instead of gouging out a hole for the sword try building the scabard up.
The front and back boards should simply be separated by hardwood spacers
just a bit thicker than the blade (probly 3/16"). Glueing this together
should work without the trial and regouge mentioned. Oh, and don't
forget to leave a hole at the bottom for water and evil spirits to get out.
- Warren of the Just Plain
Rubber bands are for powering longships, not making scabards.
From: bwc at proaxis.com (Doug Brunner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Scabard? How To?
Date: 1 Apr 1996 16:53:23 GMT
masters at nwlink.com says...
>Marc Carlson (IMC at vax2.utulsa.EDU) wrote:
>: When you are done, fit the two pieces together, rubberband them tightly
>
>Ah HA! NON-PERIOD MATERIALS! (the band, not the rubber)
>
>Instead of gouging out a hole for the sword try building the scabard up.
>The front and back boards should simply be separated by hardwood spacers
>just a bit thicker than the blade (probly 3/16"). Glueing this together
>should work without the trial and regouge mentioned. Oh, and don't
>forget to leave a hole at the bottom for water and evil spirits to get out.
>
> - Warren of the Just Plain
> Rubber bands are for powering longships, not making scabards.
That's really not a bad idea, if you're going to wrap it in leather. I don't
know how I feel about making it solid, though. For the best fit, IMHO, you'd
have to set them as spacers, leaving a bit in between the blocks so you could
adjust for the blade. But, again, if you're going ot wrap it, it may actually
work fairly well.
Thanks for the thought, I'll keep it handy.
Bruno
Subject: Re: [authenticity] Re: scabbard question
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 23:26:03 -0400
From: leigh tartaglio <leigh at dandy.net>
To: authenticity at egroups.com
Hi, All. Here is a quote from Dave Edge's book "Arms and Armor of the
Medieval Knight" "Throughout the entire period the sword was usually
carried in, and used from a scabbard hung on the left hip from a waist
belt secured by means of straps, thongs or buckles, as shown in the
Bayeux Tapestry. The scabbard consisted of two thin laths of wood
alongside either side of the blade, moulded to it's shape and probably
glued together along the edges with animal glue, then covered with
leather which could be elaborately tooled or embossed" He mentions
fleece lining on earlier swords, the lanolin in the wool guarding
against rust, then says "In later centuries the Knight's sword was
carried in a tighter fitting wooden scabbard made without this fleece
lining" He shows two examples on pg 63, one from ca. 1270 and the other
ca. 1200-1250 (the first Spanish and the second French or Flemish?).
Most swords of this period, and before and after, also have a form of
protection at the base of the scabbard called a chape. It can be cast or
hammered from sheet, and made of everything from iron to gold, and had a
variety of styles. It prevented the end of the sword scabbard from being
damaged, and the sword tip being exposed. I own a few original ones, one
with a bit of wood still in it.
Check with Sir Talbot or Gawkler to see
if they have any for sale, or pick their brains, as they have probably
handled quite a few originals. Some sword scabbards also had throats of
metal, but the two above mentioned sword scabbards do not appear to have
them. Earlier cultures used them, and they were in use later, so a chain
of use could be postulated, keeping in mind cultural variations, styles,
etc. It seems that, mostly, some sort of cord was placed under the
leather covering to form a ridge to enable the thongs that made up the
belt to not slip off the end. Different variants of this can be seen
from many cultures and many periods. This appears to be the commonest
method.
Oakeshott shows two swords with metal throats, also sometimes
called lockets or latchets, on plate 17 and 18 of "The Archaeology of
Weapons", one from ca 1319, and the other from 1329, the first Spanish
and the other Italian, but an illo of a brass from England ca 1302 (the
brass of Robert deBures) shows none. Almost always is a chape shown,
though, be it ever so simple in design. Hope this helps, if you need
help in details, e-mail me separately, I can give detailed stuff. You
might also want to contact the Royal Armouries, Leeds. I think they have
some existing ones, or Dave Edge at the Wallace in London. Try to avoid
mentioning the SCA, try the reenactment tack, there is a greater respect
in that arena. I think that a few too many special cases have spoiled it
for the more seriously minded.
Good Luck, Mike T.
Subject: [medieval-leather] Cameron's sheaths and scabbards
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 16:06:07 -0500
From: Marc Carlson <marc-carlson at utulsa.edu>
To: medieval-leather at egroups.com
In the advertisement supplement in the latest Antiquity, Archaeopress,
publishers of BAR (http:www.archaeopress.com) have announced the release of Esther Cameron's
_Sheaths and Scabbards in England AD400-1000_ (ISBN 1841710652) for £35.
POB 920 Oxford OX2 7YH +44 1865 311914
or Hadrians Books, 122 Banbury Rd Oxford OX2 7BP +44 1865 316916
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 22:05:46 -0500
From: rmhowe <MMagnusM at bellsouth.net>
To: "- Stephan's Florilegium" <stefan at texas.net>
Subject: [Fwd: Something of Interest - Sheaths and Scabbards]
Something of Interest - Sheaths and Scabbards
Cameron, Esther A.: BAR 301, 2000 Sheaths and Scabbards in England AD
400-1000; ISBN 1841710652. £35.00 Archaeopress.com / Oxbow /
David Brown Bk. Co. . "This is not exactly coffee-table stuff,
but contains an interesting chapter on cuir bouilli, and
another on the development of vegetable-tanning in Europe
(not as straight forward as one might think), apart from an
exhaustive list of known evidence of sheaths/scabbards and
discussions of same. It is essentially my PhD thesis (or DPhil
as they like to call it in Oxford) and is to be published by
Archaeopress, Oxford, as a BAR report (British
Archaeological Report) and will be marketed by Oxbow Books
which has outlets in the US."
Archaeopress, POB 920 Oxford OX2 7YH +44 1865 311914 or
Hadrians Books, 122 Banbury Rd Oxford OX2 7BP +44 1865 316916
Oxbowbooks.com/
FYI, I already have mine. About 5/8" thick full sized.
Has lots of archaeological style drawings of remnants and
fittings, discussion of leathers, liners, wood, etc.
David Brown Book Co.
P.O. Box 511, Oakville, CT 06779
1-800-791-9354, 860-945-9329 or
Fax at 860-945-9468 -
M. Magnus Malleus, Atlantia, GDH - just a customer
Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 21:32:20 -0500
From: rmhowe <MMagnusM at bellsouth.net>
To: medieval-leather at egroups.com
Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] In regards to Esther Cameron's Leather Scabbard
Thesis
jamesahowell at juno.com wrote:
> I have been going through my archives, and this reminded me-has Esther
> Cameron's Thesis ever come out? Anyone seen it if it has? Just curious!
> Regards, Finnr
Yes, I've had my copy for at least a month now.
Cameron, Esther A.: BAR 301, 2000 Sheaths and Scabbards in England AD
400-1100; ISBN 1841710652. £35.00 Archaeopress.com / Oxbow /
David Brown Bk. Co., 237pp., 80 illustrations and pictures,
extensive bibliography.
Archaeopress, POB 920 Oxford OX2 7YH +44 1865 311914 or
Hadrians Books, 122 Banbury Rd Oxford OX2 7BP +44 1865 316916
Remind me and I'll bring it to Twelfth Nite in Attilium along with
Cutlery for the Table by Moore which includes some hanging and folding
knives from Celtic times on to 18th C. or so. I saw a copy of this
in Master James's hands and ordered it since last University here.
Moore, Simon: Cutlery for the Table / A History of British Table and
Pocket Cutlery 1999 The Hallamshire Press, Broom Hall,
Sheffield S10 DR England Amazon.UK ISBN 1874718563
320 pp. 35.00 GBP, Shipping 4.95 GBP Total: 39.95 GBP total.
Magnus, who does full citations so people can find the damn things.
Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 08:38:25 -0400
From: rmhowe <MMagnusM at bellsouth.net>
CC: - Medieval Leather List <medieval-leather at yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: Best stitch for sword scabbard?
Sean wrote:
> I'd try going through the grain and sides, but my scabbard
> leather (for wooden cores) is typically too thin for that.
> I'd be afraid it would tear through. The baseball stitch
> is a great idea, though, and probably perfect for the
> task. Any more suggestions?
According to Esther Cameron's Sheaths and Scabbards in England
600-1100 AD (Archaeopress.com) my exact method would not be
pre-1100. How period it might be else I don't know for sure
quite honestly. But I've used the baseball stitch over a wood
core. I like to imagine that the wood scabbard might be
temporarily useful as a defense for that side if needed as
well. It looks good and works very well. I did it this way
for a Catalonian sword circa 1350 or so from Del Tin Armi
Antique. At the time I had the same limited information as
most folks, excepting the more modern leather-only scabbard
construction after John Wilkinson Latham I posted about to
the Leather list long ago, and the Archaeology of Weapons
by Oakeshott. Maybe a -few- other books, but long before
the Museum of London's Knives and Scabbards or Cameron's 2000
doctoral thesis/book. So I was going pretty much on the guess
work many of you may be going on now. Back before I also
bought most of the seminal leatherwork books I have now.
I might note though that I have never seen a sword scabbard
made in period as most are sold with these days. Two layers
of leather on either side of a strip the thickness of the
blade, run through a shoe sole stitching machine and very
obvious from the front and sides. My method looks nothing
like that.
When I did my second scabbard for a sword years ago I started
by picking basswood which is a fairly soft hardwood that is
relatively non acidic unlike the tannin producing woods -
oak, walnut, ash etc. An English equivalent would be limewood.
Easily carved and worked. Latham mentioned high quality
coniferous softwood I believe. For the non woodworking
among you, deciduous or leaf bearing woods are referred
to as hardwoods - regardless of relative actual hardness.
Coniferous, or cone bearing, trees are referred to as
softwoods - even though a few of them such as yellow pine
may be harder than many hardwoods. Softwoods are often
referred to as SPF or Spruce/Pine/Fir.
I began by taking a one inch thick piece half an inch longer
than the blade and half an inch wider and slicing about 5/16"
off of one side. Discounting the 1/8" sawblade kerf this
left 9/16" for the other side and the thickness of the blade
to be taken out of one face of it.
Note that I planed it down to suit the handle and quillon later.
In period it might have been done in two equal halves,
clamshell-wise to the blade shape much as the Japanese do
theirs. In this case the material is chiseled out from each
side in pairs of bevels to fit the blade shape. Very little
is left to glue together. Experimenting a bit with Iado drawing
techniques you can actually have the blade come through the
scabbard glue seams. Trust me on this, I decided I would prefer
just a bit more. I expect that later in period when the long
pointed thrusting swords developed to pierce the plate armor
it may well have been so. Those scabbards look diamond shaped
in cross section. Perhaps Bob Charette knows.
I've never had my hands on a real scabbard of the medieval
period. I've seen lots of previous contents however in museums.
I could be wrong but I believe they had wood scabbards wrapped
in leather. The surviving Spanish swords from the royal tombs
appear to be. So do some others I have pictures of.
I first drew the outline of the sword blade on the wood, then I
proceeded to rout and chisel out the profile. Having done a lot
of precision work in my life (within thousandths of an inch, or
less) I left about 1/32" room at the mouth of the scabbard for
play in either dimension. There is a short rectangular shape
at this point. The scabbard has never warped and it remains
easily drawn.
I then glued the two sides back together and planed a taper to
them both ways all four sides. In the end I had a scabbard just
wider than the quillon and smaller at the chape end. As I
wanted a raised leather mouth on either side of the quillon
this worked out just right. For those of you with proper
schooling this would resemble a bell curve or a sine wave.
I then rounded the corners of the scabbard with a round-over
router bit, all the way down both sides and the tip. The
mouth end I left with a square surface to be covered later
with a leather oval piece later. This has conformed to the
shape of the steel quillon and seals the opening tightly.
I chose some 2-3 ounce vegetable tanned leather. I marked the
center line on both my scabbard front and back at the ends
- mouth and chape end - AND on the leather I intended to glue
to it. Using ordinary Barge cement, I then coated ONE side of
the scabbard and aligned the marks on the scabbard to the
leather. The leather was wider and longer than I needed at
this point.
Barge cement looks and smells just like contact cement to me.
I was a cabinetmaker/furniture shop foreman for a number of
years. But I still used Barge. Contact cement you usually
stick together when it dries just tacky to the touch. Barge
you just rough up the surfaces and glue away in my experience.
If you were to use real contact cement put sticks, waxed paper
or kraft paper between the pieces until you align the marks
then slide it out carefully and press together. This is how
laminate is applied in cabinet work. Start from the center
and press towards the ends and sides. Takes out the wrinkles.
In period the glue might be hide and hoof glue, or fish glue,
unless perhaps you were in Japan where it might be rice paste
glue, quite literally mashed from freshly prepared cooked rice
and used immediately.
Once the initial glue had set up I proceeded to apply glue to
the curves of the scabbard sides and pull the leather around
it. At this point I seem to remember coating both surfaces
and joining them when nearly dry.
I did not glue the back side yet. I wanted my leather to meet
in the center of it. I had yet to trim it.
Once the leather had stuck to the rounded sides I folded over
one side and laid a metal straight edge over it at the
centerlines I could still see on my wood scabbard ends. I cut
the leather with a knife along the straight edge and let it
go loose. I then folded the other side over and cut it just
a bit short of center to allow for the stitching. The leather
still sticks over both scabbard ends at this point.
I cut it slightly short on the back seam because I wanted to
make sure I had room to pull the leather together when I
stitched it with a baseball stitch. In practice the stitch
resembles a figure eight - weaving up through and over one
side and under and up through the next side only to return
under the first side. You will find you have to leave some
slack in the stitches to pull as you sew futher on later.
I have never like the through stitch which causes a ridge
of leather to stand up against the side of your hip when
you sew through both leathers at once bent at a right angle
to the scabbard back. I have it on some post period scabbards
and I knew it was not what I wanted.
I applied glue to both sides of the scabbard back, but not the
roughly 3/4" in the center, and folded the two leather sides
over and weighted them until the glue dried.
I then proceeded to stitch from the dampened middle towards
both ends using the baseball stitch. In the light leather I
had two stitches pull through with me, but it's not terribly
noticable. Spacing was about 6-8 to the inch. The seam closed
up very well. I seem to remember someone suggested wetting
the leather with a solvent like lacquer thinner to soften it
and form it. I can't recall if I did this. If I did it would
have dried very rapidly.
When I got to the chape end I trimmed the leather to conform
to the double curve and stitched the end seam towards both
sides as well. This was later covered by a metal chape I
hammered to shape and glued on. I suggest starting with a
paper template. Before attaching the chape was when I dyed
the leather. I had been careful not to get glue on the outer
surface and it dyed just fine.
The other end was where I wanted the mouth to rise around the
quillon sides. Initially I cut and started to stitch the rim
to shape. Then I realized that with the thin leather it
didn't need it. Wetting it and folding it over it simply
stayed in shape. I had left a bit of the very top of the
scabbard unglued so I could fold it down at the sides while
it rose front and back in the bell curve shape. Before
bending the mouth leather I had cut a mouthpiece of leather
for the quillon to seat to and glued it in. Cutting the hole
for the blade was relatively simple later. I inserted a craft
knife blade in the center and trimmed the leather carefully
to the sides of the opening.
Since I had a good gradual taper to both sides I told myself
I'd make a temporary frog to hold it until I made the rest of
the metal fittings. I cut a piece of thicker leather to reach
around the front to the middle, but not quite join, to a shape
I liked and riveted a strap at an angle to the back of it to
fit my belt at a slight incline. I then, unperiodically I think,
punched a bunch of holes on either edge of the front of the
frog where the sides met and laced it up with a leather thong.
I keep telling myself I'll replace it with a metal fitting one
day. I did put a pierced silver engraved decoration on the
scabbard front. Right about where I'd attach the lower strap
side of the right belt end now as luck would have it.
Looking back at it many years hence it has proved to be a very
functional scabbard. I seldom wear it because I don't need it
in the way, or to worry about it walking if I put it down,
and the macho of wearing a large sword doesn't really matter
to me. A side knife is enough. It's held up extremely well,
and the blade neither rattles in it, nor has it ever rusted.
Since I don't believe in dull weapons that have decent alloys
in them I had sharpened it on a waterstone soon after I'd bought
it. The quarter inch of surrounding wood has protected me
quite nicely and the scabbard itself is light and strong.
Maybe lighter than some utilitarian scabbards sewn through
the front.
If I were to do it again I would still do a lot of it the same
way, with an exception. I would make the top of the scabbard
unglued in places and pierced to receive the three thongs of the
left side of the belt after Oakeshott, and then I would attach
the right side of the belt a bit lower around the scabbard and
adjust it for hang.
There are much clearer depictions of how this is done, but it's
in a German costume book, not Oakeshott. This depicts two methods
and one thing not so clear in Oakeshott is that the width changes
down the length of the upper belt straps. One is thicker in the
middle of it's length. These would also be the belts worn without
buckles. The belt has two slits on the left half with two tapering
ends of the right half tied through them. Of course if you should
decide to go with this method I don't recommend any sudden body
weight changes. ;) Some of my aging friends have put on enough
weight to have to hang their work that once fit nicely around
their middles around their necks. ;) Either that or cut and piece.
Ditmar-Traut / Rustung Gewandung Sachkultur des Deutches
Hochmittelalderen ISBN 1851771936 About thirty dollars from
David Brown Book Co. / American source for Oxbowbooks.com
P.O. Box 511, Oakville, CT 06779
1-800-791-9354, 860-945-9329 or Fax at 860-945-9468
The title means roughly Armor, Costume and Material Culture
(meaning everything else - jewellery, furniture, lighting,
cooking and eating utensils, etc.) of the German High Middle
Ages. The book is reflective of the times of the troubadours
and a large part of it is concerned with the Manesse Codex
(also known as the Heidelberg Songbook). It also has
illustrations from about 800 to about 1400 AD from numerous
other manuscripts, sculpture and paintings, sometimes leaving
out the faces. Saint Maurice, who was black, is left faceless
in a depiction of the sculpture of him in his armor.
Is it a good book? Well, I have three more ordered for friends
who saw it at one event. It's also one of the few books on
German costume, but is by no means the paragon of depiction.
It's a good place to start. German history seems mostly to have
started with Bismark and of course largely concerns German
Militarism since in the bookstores in English works. Anything
illustrated remotely medieval is infrequently found. Prior
to Bismark's consolidation Germany emerged from the middle
ages in a great many small political entities much like
Italy.
Those of us who have the books in color depicting the
Manesse Codex pictures (all 137 of them) can add the color.
Most of you who have looked at books on the Middle Ages
would recognize the pictures immediately. Several are
frequently printed, and currently Chivalry Sports is doing
a series of them in tapestry throws. I missed the first and
almost bought the second until I realized that their logo
and name were woven into the tapestry scene, which I think
is extremely tacky. http://www.renstore.com/ Search Manesse.
The best Manesse Codex book I have is:
Walther, Ingo F. u. Gisela Siebert (Hrsg.). : Codex Manesse. ;
Die Miniaturen der Großen Heidelberger Liederhandschrift
herausgegeben und erläutert. (Ffm.), Insel (1988).
4°. XXXVII, (1), 281 S. mit 137 Farbtafeln. Farbig illustr.
Means roughly the Codex Manesse, the Miniatures of the Great
Heidelberg Manuscript. Quarto. 37 pages introduction, with
281 pages and 137 illustrations of the almost all color pictures.
A couple were never finished or colored. Descriptions of what
is thought to be happening in the pictures accompany each in German.
Used, my copy cost me about $20 from Germany and had all the
pictures, as opposed to the forty or so I had assembled from
photographing illustrations in other books. The Manesse Codex
depicts a number of these sword/belt combinations including
a knighting with one being tied on by attendants.
Since bibliofind.com has now sadly gone to Amazon, may I
recommend either http://www.Amazon.de/ or better yet
Master Magnus Malleus, OL, GDH, Atlantia / © R. Howe
** I do NOT want my postings forwarded to open newsgroups, in
particular the Rialto, or to the SCA-Univesitas list. Closed
subscriber-based email lists within the SCA or re-enactor
community are fine. Inclusion in http://www.Florilegium.org/
is also permitted. Email me about newsletter use.**
From: David Chessler <chessler at usa.net>
Date: January 14, 2008 2:39:15 AM CST
To: Stefan at florilegium.org, ana_deissler <anahay at btinternet.com>
Subject: Your article [medieval-leather] DIY instructions for Seax Scabbards with Metal Edge Binding
I read your article as posted for the SCA in Stefan's Florilegium. http://www.florilegium.org
I have a few alternatives based on my own experience. I can't say they're better, but they are different.
I have some experience making leather scabbards for large knives, up to the size of machetes. One technique that was commonly used as recently as the 19th century was to cut a strip of leather about a half-inch wide (12 mm), and rivet it between the front and back, so the edge of the blade rested against it. This prevented the blade's cutting the leather scabbard from the inside, and also protected the blade's edge from damage on the rivets. This MIGHT explain why no metal edging has ever been found.
You can sew the seam by punching holes with an awl and stitching with sinew, or waxed thread (probably linen), or, when not trying to make a reproduction, with metal wire (copper will be easier than steel). Do this before the rivets are put in: it's easier.
Strips of copper or brass are commonly available in the US in crafts stores, hobby shops, and hardware stores (ironmongers).
Knife sheaths, as recently as the 19th C, were made by bringing the leather up the handle about half way. When the leather was molded to the handle, the knife would be held very securely, yet would be easy to remove with the thumb and one or two fingers. Again, I have done this many times, but never with a knife that would be worn horizontally, or even with the handle below the horizontal. My machete sheath has no special provision to hold the machete, but, with a 22 inch (55.8 CM) blade, about 3 inches (7.5 cm) wide, there is ample friction to hold the blade.
--
Davitt il Bigollo da Pisa
Procurator parumper aurifex in Portus Liburni
Officina pro Moghul terra
Curalium quod Smaragdi ex Indicum quod Serenus
<the end>