hemp-msg - 1/20/08
Use of hemp in period. In ropes, as an intoxicant, clothing. Hemp seeds in food. Recipes. Sources for hemp seed.
NOTE: See also the files: hemp-cloth-msg, rope-msg, silk-msg, cotton-msg, linen-msg, herbs-msg, seeds-msg, smoking-msg.
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From: haslock at fiacha.zso.dec.com (Nigel Haslock)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Smoking at events
Date: 15 Nov 1994 21:01:51 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Greetings from Fiacha,
eadengle at watcgl.uwaterloo.ca (Ed "Cynwrig" Dengler) writes:
|> The question I would like answered is: did ships/boats in period use
|> hemp for anything?
|> Cynwrig
Lets think. Ropes, sails, caulking, clothing (probably bedding too).
Think of hemp as the period wonder fiber, cheap, durable and capable of being
worked to any degree of fineness.
Fiacha
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Smoking at events
From: david.razler at compudata.com (David Razler)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 00:17:00 -0500
Organization: Compu-Data BBS -=- Turnersville, NJ -=- 609-232-1245
GR>Hi, Angharad ver' Rhuawn here, feeling silly.
GR>Aleksandr the Traveller says,
> Actually, those of us from early period who come from points east or
>travelled as I have should be smoking substances other than tobacco - I
>wonder if an educational organization can get the same kind of exemption
>from certain dracconian laws granted religious organizations like the N
>American Church?
>
> "But officer, I was just giving a class on the historic growing of
>and the use of its various components during the Middle Ages. How can you
>truely teach such a subject without, uh, inhaling ...."
GR>Actually, in the Middle East, virtually every medical text from period
GR>describes treatments that involve smoking herbs wrapped in silk or paper
GR>(the pictures look remarkably like cigarettes). The most common substan
GR>in them, I believe, will get you in rather more trouble than hemp.
GR>Comes from poppies.
GR>Now, if you want a well documented use for hemp in period, try Plotina's
GR>recipe for hemp soup.
GR>-- Angharad/Terry
Have to {ahem, unofficially, I didn't do it, never ever would break the
law, etc.> give it a try, though the thought of the TASTE of hemp soup is
more than offputting. I have noticed ONE bad habit of some of my Arabic and
Indian friends at Pennsic, to offer me delightful drinks and candies, that,
according to my old recepie books, call for many spices, including copius
quantities of the aromatic dried resin of hemp.
Bhang: Bring 10 oz. water to a rolling boil, remove from heat and add 1/2
oz. ganja and let soak for 5 minutes, kneed vigorously then remove the
ganja, set aside water, dispose of stems and seeds.place ganja in mortar and
reduce to a pulp, adding milk gradually, along with 1/4 oz. pepper, 1/8 oz.
dry ginger, pinch each of caraway seeds, cloves, cinnamon, nutmeg, cardamom,
1/4 oz cucumber seeds, 6 almonds, one fully-developed rose including hip,
add 1/4 oz poppy seeds. Add paste ball to 20 oz. milk - what you used in
making paste, strain through muslin, throw away everything but milk, add
original water and sugar to taste ( at 8 oz.) Chill and serve.
Manjun: blend 2 oz. ganja and 1 oz. butter, let stand several hours. Place 1
lb. crude sugar and water until it is dissolved and thick, cook to thread
stage, add 2 pinches clove, 3/4 oz caraway seeds, 1 1/4 oz. poppy seeds, 1/2
oz. cinnamon and cook to 300 degrees, remove and blend in butter mixture,
optionally nuts. stretch on a marble surface like peanut brittle.
That and several other recepies can be lifted from The Connoisseur's
Handbook of Marijuana, a grab bag present (really, mom!) I won many years
ago in college.
Aleksandr, uh the, uh , what were we talking about?
[david.razler at compudata.com]
From: IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu (I. Marc Carlson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Hemp and Pot
Date: 19 Nov 1994 12:54:06 -0600
After a long discussion with some people on this topic, since they were
convinced that there is actually a significant difference between plant known
as Marijuana, and the Hemp that has been traditionally used for rope, cloth,
and other goodies through out the history of Western Europe (and is, I believe,
still used today), I went and visited my handy OED and looked up the
definitions (any odd letters are the result of special characters in the
OED database)
cannabis.
1. Common hemp, Cannabis sativa, a tall erect herb of the family
Morace having long dentate leaves on long petioles and common
in central Asia and other warm regions; different regional
varieties, occas. distinguished as Cannabis americana,
Cannabis indica (Indian hemp), etc., are cultivated for their
fibre, their intoxicating properties, or the oil obtained from
their seeds.
2. (Orig. ellipt. for Cannabis sativa or (especially) Cannabis indica.)
Any of various preparations of different parts of the hemp-plant
which are smoked, chewed, or drunk for their intoxicating or
hallucinogenic properties and were formerly used medicinally;
bhang (marijuana), ganja, and charas (hashish) are different
forms of these preparations and there are many other names.
3. attrib. and Comb., as cannabis plant, -smoker; cannabis resin,
the sticky resin produced by the hemp-plant, esp. the
flowering tops of the female, and containing the active
principles.
hemp (henep, hempe, hemppe).
[OE. henep, hnep = OLG. *hanap, *hanip, MDu. and Du. hennep,
LG. hemp, OHG. hanaf, -if, -uf (MHG. hanef, Ger. hanf), ON.
hampr (Sw. hampa, Da. hamp):---OTeut. *hanpi-z, *hanapi-z...
1. An annual herbaceous plant, Cannabis sativa, N.O. Urticace,
a native of Western and Central Asia, cultivated for its
valuable fibre. It is a di?cious plant, of which the female
is more vigorous and long-lived than the male, whence the
sexes were popularly mistaken, and the female called carl or
winter h., the male fimble (i.e. female), barren, or summer
h.: see carl hemp and fimble. (The quotations from the Saxon
Leechdoms appear to refer to some wild British plant, perh.
the wild hemp of 5.)
2. The cortical fibre of this plant, used for making cordage, and
woven into stout fabrics.
3. In allusion to a rope for hanging.
4. A narcotic drug obtained from the resinous exudation of the
Indian hemp; bhang; hashish.
5. With qualifying words, applied to numerous other plants
yielding a useful fibre, or otherwise resembling hemp: as
African hemp, (a) bowstring hemp (a); (b) Sparmannia africana
(Miller Plant-names). American false hemp, Datisca hirta
(Miller Ibid.). bastard h., name given to the British plants
Hemp-nettle and Hemp Agrimony (Britten & Holland). Bengal h.,
Bombay h., Madras h., Crotalaria juncea (Miller).
bowstring hemp; (a) a plant of the genus Sanseviera, esp.
S. guineensis, a liliaceous plant of tropical Africa, the
leaf-fibres of which are used by the natives for
bowstrings and for making ropes; (b) in India, S.
Roxburghiana; also Calatropis gigantea (N.O.
Asclepiadace). brown Indian h., Hibiscus cannabinus
(Miller). Canada or Indian h., Apocynum cannabinum, a N.
American perennial (J. Smith Dict. Econ. Pl.). Cretan h.,
Datisca cannabina (Miller). holy h., an old name for
Galeopsis Ladanum (Miller). Indian h., a tropical variety
of Common Hemp, Cannabis Indica. jute or plant h.,
Corchoris capsularis (Encycl. Brit.). Kentucky h., Urtica
(Laportea) Canadensis and U. cannabina (Miller). Manilla
h., the fibre of Musa textilis, of the Banana family.
mountain h., Hyoscyamus insanus (Syd. Soc. Lex.). nettle
h. = hemp-nettle. Peruvian h., Bonapartea juncea.
Queensland h., the tropical weed Sida rhombifolia (N.O.
Malvace), called also Paddy or Native Lucerne, and Jelly
Leaf. ramie h., B_hmeria nivea. sisal h., the fibre of
species of Agave, esp. A. Sisalana. Virginian h., willow
h., Acnida cannabina, an amarantaceous marsh plant,
native of eastern U.S. water h., a name given to
Eupatorium cannabinum and Bidens tripartita, in U.S. to
Acnida cannabina. wild h., Eupatorium cannabinum
(Gerarde), and Galeopsis Tetrahit (Britten & Holland).
marijuana, marihuana [American Spanish]
1. A preparation of the hemp plant, Cannabis sativa (see
cannabis), for use as an intoxicating and hallucinogenic drug;
usu. applied to a crude preparation of the dried leaves,
flowering tops, and stem of the plant that is generally
smoked.
2. The hemp plant; = cannabis 1.
So it seems that it is possible that there is a relationship here. However,
hemp, it seems refers to the material taken from the stems (which I'm told by,
er, friends don't make as good a smoking material as the leaves do), while
one smokes the leaves (or just uses them for herbal concoctions :) ).
I still suspect that while it's possible that Hemp leaves were used for
herbal remedies in history, the refinement of smoking them remained unknown
in western Europe until late in the 16th C (at the earliest), when they *might*
have been used to "sauce" up a pipe of mundane tobacco.
A simple scholar,
Diarmuit Ui Dhuinn
University of Northkeep
Northkeepshire, Ansteorra
(I. Marc Carlson/IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu)
From: Neil Maclay <nmaclay at mitre.org>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Hemp and Pot
Date: 20 Nov 1994 03:37:39 GMT
Organization: Planning Systems, Inc. (PSI)
I. Marc Carlson, IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu writes:
> I still suspect that while it's possible that Hemp leaves were used for
> herbal remedies in history, the refinement of smoking them remained unknown
> in western Europe until late in the 16th C (at the earliest), when they
> *might* have been used to "sauce" up a pipe of mundane tobacco.
Herodotus, in his "History of the Persian Wars", describes how the
Scythians got high by inhaling the smoke of cannabis. They did not use
pipes, instead they would gather in a closed tent and throw leave,
flowers, and seeds onto burning coals.
A side thought, I don't believe Herodotus mentions what they used as fuel
for their fire when they did this. I do know that horse nomads such as
the Scythians often used dried animal dung as fuel.
Master Malcolm MacMalcolm, Marshal
( just say 'MMMMM...' )
mka Neil Maclay
Barony of Storvic - Atlantia
mka Wash. D.C. area
From: djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: hemp leaves /was serf's clothing
Date: 24 Nov 1996 22:25:17 GMT
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
David M. Razler <david.razler at worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>| (Which you got, by the way, by plucking up all the female
>| plants before they flowered, when you could only tell
>| male from female by the color of the leaves....
>You can't, or at least none of the hemp growers I've known could tell by leaf
>color. They tried every possible method to tell early on and failed.
Hmmmm. I've never attempted growing hemp myself--there are
interesting legal problems--and all I know is from what Thomas
Tusser said in his _500 Points of Good Husbandry._ I haven't a
copy on hand at the moment, but this is what he said:
Go pluck fro the karl hemp the fimble hemp clean:
That looketh more yellow, the t'other more green.
>Beyond that, aside from 1) drug potency and 2) production of seeds for next
>year's crop, I have never seen anything stating a difference between male and
>female plants in terms of fiber production. ....
Hmmm. Maybe the variety of hemp grown in Europe in period to
produce fibers is different from the variety of hemp grown in the
US in the present day to produce THC?
Just as a cow kept for milk is a different strain from one kept
for meat--they will both produce both, but some are more
productive in one field than another.
>The only difference I can see is that younger stalks may produce fibers which
>are thinner and capable of producing a smoother fabric without treartment to
>soften or split them.
And presumably the female fibers, having been harvested earlier,
would show that characteristic. But if that were the only
difference, Tusser would simply have said (in the appropriate
doggerel) "Go pull up all your hemp plants except the ones you're
saving for seed."
I'm *not* going to go and experiment....
Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin
From: Brett and Karen Williams <brettwi at ix.netcom.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: hemp leaves /was serf's clothing
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 23:27:02 -0800
There is an interesting discussion of the properties of hemp (as a bast
fiber and otherwise) in Professor Barber's "Prehistoric Textiles", ISBN
0-691-00224-X, in which she makes the assertion, via inference, that the
knowledge of the intoxicating qualities of the hemp plant gradually
spread west from southeast Asia. The appendix of Chapter 1,
incidentally, discusses the change of the word used for 'hemp'-- the
original word was gradually displaced as the new variety of hemp moved
its way westwards.
A picture on page 16 displays hemp being grown for rope fiber in
Romania, late 1970's. Large, *large* stacks, tied in shocks. Mine eyes
are red just wondering if it's the older variety without THC or the
newfangled Asian stuff!
ciorstan
From: gray at ibis.cs.umass.edu (Lyle Gray)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: hemp leaves /was serf's clothing
Date: 27 Nov 1996 23:50:59 GMT
Organization: CMPSCI Department, UMass Amherst
dietmarrvs at aol.com wrote:
: I don't believe that hemp fiber is illegal in this country, because you
: can buy it in many hardware stores as sisal rope or twine.
Thank you for inspiring me to look this up. ;-)
Sisal, also called "sisal hemp" because of its similarity to "Indian hemp"
(_cannabis sativa_), is from the West Indian Agave (_Agave sisalana_). It is
not related to Indian hemp, in the same way that "Manila hemp" (abaca, from
the _Musa textilis_ banana native to the Phillipines) is not related to Indian
hemp. The term "hemp" is used to describe a number of plant fibers that have
[supposedly] similar characteristics.
------------------------------------------------------ NON ANIMAM CONTINE
Lyle H. Gray gray at cs.umass.edu (text only)
From: gray at ibis.cs.umass.edu (Lyle Gray)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: hemp leaves /was serf's clothing
Date: 28 Nov 1996 00:00:33 GMT
Organization: CMPSCI Department, UMass Amherst
I wrote:
: Sisal, also called "sisal hemp" because of its similarity to "Indian hemp"
: (_cannabis sativa_), is from the West Indian Agave (_Agave sisalana_). It is
: not related to Indian hemp, in the same way that "Manila hemp" (abaca, from
: the _Musa textilis_ banana native to the Phillipines) is not related to
: Indian hemp. The term "hemp" is used to describe a number of plant fibers
: that have [supposedly] similar characteristics.
BTW, Indian hemp belongs to the mulberry family, and sisal belongs to the
amaryllis family...
------------------------------------------------------ NON ANIMAM CONTINE
Lyle H. Gray gray at cs.umass.edu (text only)
From: David Corliss <corlisd at aa.wl.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: hemp leaves /was serf's clothing
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 10:20:14 -0400
Organization: Retro Team, Parke-Davis Ann Arbor
Dick Eney wrote:
> In article <32994A46.721B at ix.netcom.com>,
> Brett and Karen Williams <brettwi at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >Medwyn wrote:
> >> djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
> >> <...>
> >> >Hmmm. Maybe the variety of hemp grown in Europe in period to
> >> >produce fibers is different from the variety of hemp grown in the
> >> >US in the present day to produce THC?
> >> <...>
Hemp fiber is taken from the stem of the plant (bast fibers). Drugs are taken,
chiefly, from the leaves. As a results, hemp grow for the two distinct purposes is hardly recognizable as the same species.
Hemp grown for drug production emphasizes the leaves. The plant are bushy and planted very far apart. Hemp grown for fiber emphasizes the stems. The plants are as close together as possible: crowding is deliberate. As a result, light is unavailable at the sides of the plant. The only leaves are at the top. The plant grows very tall and straight, ever reaching towards the sparse sunlight. This gives the maximum amount of bast fiber.
Obviously, specific varieties have been developed to stress particular qualities. The drug varieties might be expected to have even less in common with the fiber varieties as a climbing rose has in common with a miniature shrub rose.
David/Beorthwine
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: What hemp is and isn't- and is and isn't good for.
From: una at bregeuf.stonemarche.org (Honour Horne-Jaruk)
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 96 06:14:15 EST
Respected friends:
dietmarrvs at aol.com writes:
> I don't believe that hemp fiber is illegal in this country, because you
> can buy it in many hardware stores as sisal rope or twine. The hemp fiber
> is very similar to linen, flax, and ramie. If it would make such
> outstanding cloth, than that same need would be filled by those fibers.
> The average person is not clamoring to wear linen clothing. People want
> the comfort and convenience of cotton.
>
> As for paper, the same argument holds. People like nice white wood pulp
> paper. If there were an overwhelming demand for other fibers to be used
> in paper production than there are plenty of legal fibers (papyrus,
> cotton, and linen) that could be used in place of hemp.
>
> Let's not kid ourselves. There is no good reason that hemp should be
> grown in the U.S. If you want to grow hemp, just be honest and admit that
> you want to smoke it.
> Just my 2 cents,
> Flame away,
>
> Dietmar