newcomers-msg - 10/13/11
How to make newcomers to your group confortable. Integrating newcomers.
NOTE: See also the files: 4-newcomers-msg, Getting-an-AoA-art, SCA-intro-art,
SCA-trans-msg, intro-books-msg, names-FAQ, courtesy-msg, SCA-courtesy-art.
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Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: DICKSNR at qucdn.queensu.ca ("Ross M. Dickson")
Date: 4 Jul 91 14:53:00 GMT
Organization: The Internet
Greetings to the Rialto from Sarra Graeham, courtesy of Lord Angus:
Yaakov HaMizrachi comments upon his first event, the courtesy and welcome
he found there, and that he thinks it unfair to dump the responsibility
for training newcomers on existing group members who might be shy and find
it beyond their abilities, so long as there are other courteous people to
take up the slack.
He is right, in the ideal case. But I think this, the most common view
on the best way to train newcomers, is damaging in any group where the
longtime members are "cliqueish". This includes the case where they are
too shy to make new friends easily, as the two cases can't be told apart
by the newcomer, and cliqueish behavior is often impossible to see from
the inside. (Everybody who's never run into an SCA group that behaves
like this, raise your hand! :-)
Ideally, training newcomers is best taken up by everyone in a group, where
everyone who runs into them is helpful, answers their questions, lends
them what they didn't know to bring, rescues them from social gaffs ("Ah,
dear, that's the King you're about to present that cloved lemon to, and
the Queen is right beside him. ..."), etc. But in the real world, groups
get too big and people get too busy to be able to notice newcomers among
the other noise and bustle. Usually in any one group there are a few
people who take up the slack, official Chatelains/Gold Key or not, but
they can get tired or tell the newcomers all the wrong things ("Yeah, the
SCA's really great, everybody wears bunnyfur bikinis, drinks their guts
out, and you wouldn't believe the willing babes! ..."). I'm sure most
groups do a very good job, or the SCA wouldn't still be a courteous place
with steadily increasing membership, but judging by the social dynamic of
a few places I've visited, there's still much to be done.
This is why I feel it's important for longtime members to take an active
role in the training of newcomers; hospitality is in fact one of the Peer-
like qualities. I made a long, impassioned posting on this topic earlier
this spring, but the Reader's Digest version is that if we want to shape
the Society into a courteous and authentic place, the longtime members who
know what's what have to make sure newcomers know what the Society's aims
and goals are, and that we are *not* a fantasy society, that we are *not*
a slavishly authentic society with a focus on one time and place, that we
*don't* want to recreate the evil politics of the period, and so on.
So the clever reader might be asking, "How do we do this?" I got asked
the same thing at a herald's meeting the other week, when I suggested that
the heralds had a lousy reputation because we were the only group in the
SCA who regularly told people they couldn't do what they wanted to do.
My answer to, "How do we fix it?" was to say that the heralds should get
in on the training of newcomers, and make sure that every newcomer who
joins the SCA knows that they must choose a name and device that could
have, but didn't, belong to a human being before 1600. If the newcomer
knows this at the beginning, they probably won't become attached to some-
thing inappropriate, and they will have no real quarrel with the heralds.
(We *should* be training our pursuivants to do this, but that's another
posting.)
This is what I think should happen in every major field of Society endea-
vour, from behavior at an event, to making garb, to cooking feasts, to
the honour system in fighting, and beyond. We should help our newcomers
discover the information they need to function as contributing members of
the SCA *before* they make their mistakes. In Greyfells, we started off
our last batch of newcomers with two special meetings for them, the first
where we discussed courtesy, social conduct, and what they needed to bring
to their first event. At the second meeting, we told them to bring fa-
bric, we supplied the sewing machines, and a dozen newcomers made their
own first garb with experienced canton members to guide them along. So
now they had three things, appropriate garb of their own for their first
event, the knowledge of how to make more (especially relevant if they'd
never seen a sewing machine before), and most importantly, a feeling that
people in the SCA give their time and talent to help others. That last is
crucial if the volunteerism that runs the SCA is to continue in perpetua,
with or without awards to spur it on.
I understand Yaakov's concern about asking busy SCA members to do more.
But I think that's the short term view. In the long term, the only way
to get relief is for there to be somebody willing and able to take up the
reins when you falter, and that's what training newcomers is all about.
If there's nobody there, you keep working, or the group dies.
I'm afraid I've run on again, but I really feel quite passionate about
this topic. If the SCA is not to devolve into armed camps of "Us" vs.
"Them", the longtime members have to take some type of responsibility for
training the next generation of SCAdians. If we don't, *someone* will
make our newcomers feel welcome, and it just might be the beer-swigging
bunnyfur barbarians that we don't talk to either. If we *do*, there are
rewarding relationships to be formed with people who are still excited
about the things that caught our imagination when we first found this
company many years ago.
Sarra Graeham, Canton of Greyfells | Heather Fraser
Barony of the Skraeling Althing | Kingston, Ontario, CANADA
Principality of Ealdormere, Midrealm | c/o dicksnr at qucdn.queensu.ca
From: aluko at leland.Stanford.EDU (Stephen Goldschmidt)
Date: 16 Oct 91 22:28:14 GMT
Organization: Stanford, Pren Tal, Mists, West
In article justin at inmet.camb.inmet.COM (Justin du Coeur MKA Mark Waks) writes:
>We *do* usually tell them that they should go get a name posthaste, and
>recommend pretty strongly that getting a device is A Good Thing. Indeed,
>some people make it sound like the novice should get themselves a name
>before even contemplating participation in the Society.
I'm not sure who "we" are in this excerpt.
My own recommendations would be:
(1) Choose a GIVEN name before your second SCA gathering and have it
checked at your first opportunity, to see if it will be registerable;
or, even better, choose it with the help of a name-herald.
(2) Don't worry about the REST of your name (or trying to register
it) until you have been active for a year or so or you
need to register a device.
(3) Register your DEVICE before sewing a banner or painting a shield,
or when you are granted arms (or expect to be soon).
There is no reason for someone to consult on a device at their first
event; indeed, it may be a turn-off for some newcomers. However,
newcomers usually need immediate attention from the heralds to help
them choose authentic GIVEN names, unless they are going to go around
using an unofficial nickname (or their legal given name) for the rest
of their days in the SCA. A GIVEN name is virtual requirement for any
kind of social activity in the Society, and it is very hard to change
once it becomes known. Believe it or not, a given name that sounds
perfectly good to modern ears may turn out to be a problem when you go
to register your full SCA name later.
Iulstan
From: SAUNDRSG at QUCDN.QueensU.CA (Graydon)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Newcomers
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 93 13:35:57 EDT
Organization: Queens University at Kingston
tbarnes at silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes) writes:
> Do people have any ideas on how to integrate new folks into an
>established group or for how to make new people feel welcome?
Well, the short answer is to find them something to do that they think
is fun a few times, and they'll stick thereafter if they're interested.
The longer sugguestion is to run a garb making session (it helps to
have someone volunteer to go cloth shopping with them, too), and to
get one or two experienced people to do 'Event Enjoyment 101' (calling
it 'event survival' can give entirely the wrong impression!)
The topics I cover in EE101 are - this is not a clique, if you don't
talk to people, they assume you *want* to be sitting quietly in the
corner; the existence of all the sub-groups who do specific things;
the constraint of reality (if you're going to claim it, you have to
do it, too); and that participation in everything is volunatary (no
one can do everything, so look around and try stuff until you find
something that you like; people who insist that you *must* (who
aren't running the event) may well be having a politeness leak).
Graydon
From: sclark at epas.utoronto.ca (Susan Clark)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Newcomers
Date: 6 Sep 1993 14:22:36 -0400
Organization: EPAS Computing Facility, University of Toronto
Greetings.....
As a person who just finished up a spell as my group's chatelaine,
here's a few things I found work:
1. For transplants,the main problem will probably be the one of
fitting into a new group after being well-established in
another one. These folks will probably not need all the info a
rank newcomer will, but they should be made to feel welcome
and become acquainted with your group (size, barons n' stuff, who
does what, etc.) A good way to get acquainted is to ask 'em stuff
about their old group and what they did in it. As soon as you
find out their interests, let them know of practices, cool people
to talk with....and find a way to let them start using their talents.
2. New people are going to need a variety of things. Af I usually
give them the basic intro (format of meetings, basic philosophy,
etc.), let them use the Known World Handbook, and then ask them
if they have any particular interests. I then send them to folks
who can help them get involved with these interests.
For both groups, the most important thing is making them feel welcome.
This means that if you're showing them around at a meeting, you
don't abandon them and go talk to your friends, and it also means
introducing them by name to as many people as you can. Offerrs
of help in making garb or finding gear is also nice.
Of course, orienting newcomers should not be just one person's job.
You probably know who the people in your group are who are friendly,
helpful, knowledgeable, etc. are and who those are upon whom you
should never foist an unsuspecting newcomer.
Hope this helps.
regards
Nicolaa/Susan
sclark at eps.utoronto.ca
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Newcomers
From: mlitchfield at pimacc.pima.edu (R. Michael Litchfield)
Date: 7 Sep 93 22:00:35 -0700
tbarnes at silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes) writes:
> Do people have any ideas on how to integrate new folks into an
> established group or for how to make new people feel welcome?
If you are really serious about it you should take a look at why you keep
losing them. Usually it is not something you can do anything about, either they
don't know why they left or can't explain it, or what they object to is so
pandemic or entrenched in the society that you can't change it. In any event it
might be worth talking to some of the newbies that walked away and find out
why.
If you want to work on some of the symptoms because you can't do anything about
the problem there are a couple of things you can try that might help.
a) Have an established member adopt each newbie. Give the newbs someone who
will look out for them and someone they can goto for help. Someone who will
help them get to events, help them do things at the event and to get them
involved in the local groups activities. The drawbacks with this are a tendancy
to involve the newbie in the political pissing fights of thier mentors and a
serious problem if the newbie nd mentor don't click.
b) Take them shopping. Have someone take the newbie out shopping to get all the
things they will need to play in the society. Feast gear, garb or cloth for
garb (if you just get bard you have to stay with them until it gets made into
garb, and not just t-tunics and gypsy pants), camping gear, things for keeping
busy, etc. You have to be honest with them and tell them that this is an
expensive time consuming process, figure at least $100 and two weeks at a dead
minimum, and probably more of both.
c) Give them something to do. THey need to have something to do during the day
at events (Helping, music, crafts, games, fighting, drinking), something to do
during the night (dancing, music, sucking up to brasshats, drinking), and
something to do when they are home (fighter practice, Arts, Crafts, political
bullshit, drinking). Ideally they should get a chance to try as many possible
things as they can so they can see what they like.
d) Try to encourage a cameraderie amoung the newbies, so that they have a peer
network. The society can be an increadibly unfriendly place so it REALLY helps
to have someone who you know and can talk to.
e) COMMUNICATION! A monthly newletter is not enough, make a special point of
calling each newbie and tellign them about anything going on they might be
interested, offer them rides, TALK to them.
> Lothar \|/
-Michael
From: mittle at panix.com (Arval d'Espas Nord)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Newbie Meetings: any ideas?
Date: 3 Oct 1994 15:40:07 -0400
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC
Greetings from Arval! Gwenfrewi Afonlyn asked:
> I'm from the Shire of Afonlyn, Muncie, IN, and I was wondering if
> any of you kind gentles floating on the electronic sea might have
> suggestions or ideas about newbie meetings.
To start with, don't call them "newbie meetings". "Newbie" is a cacaphonic
word, and can be off-putting. And it is neither medieval nor
medieval-sounding. Try "newcomer".
The best way to get people interested in the Society is to get them doing
something interesting. At every meeting, your shire should do something
real: a workshop, a dance practice, a bardic circle. Hold a class at every
meeting, and invite in the best artisans from neighboring groups to teach.
Make something at the meeting: Get your local brewer to come lead a
workshop that actually ends up with a five-gallon batch of beer.
This approach will show newcomers what we really do, expose everyone to
more arts and activities, encourage people to meet one another and work
together, and create an incentive to finish the bloody business meeting
quickly. Start the meeting at 7:00 and schedule the class for 8:00. If
the meeting isn't done at 8:00, remind the officers that the Society is for
_doing_ stuff, not talking about it.
===========================================================================
Arval d'Espas Nord mittle at panix.com
From: sclark at epas.utoronto.ca (Susan Carroll-Clark)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Newbie Meetings: any ideas?
Date: 3 Oct 1994 23:44:19 GMT
Organization: University of Toronto -- EPAS
Greetings!
More than any other one factor, what will get newcomers to stay
is one-on-one contact. As it's commonly said, we're
all deputy chatelaines. When I first joined, many people went out
of the way to say "hello" and make me feel comfortable. They found
out what I was interested in and introduced me to contact people.
The seneschal loaned me a Known World Handbook, which I (keener that I was)
read cover to cover one evening. Another thing that
is useful this time of year is where we go around the room, introduce
ourselves, and say what we're interested in or working on--sometimes
with show and tell items. Finally, rather than a meeting, IxD suggest
getting the new folks to their first event ASAP. If it is next week,
loan them gear. If it is next month, help them sew their first gab.
If someone takes each newcomer as their charge at the
first event, being there to explain what court is and to answer other
such questions.
Cheers!
Nicolaa/Susan
Canton of Eoforwic
sclark at epas.utoronto.ca
From: corun at access1.digex.net (Corun MacAnndra)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Newbie Meetings: any ideas?
Date: 3 Oct 1994 19:43:07 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Deny thyself the spoils of personal licentiousness. <00eenepsa at bsuvc.bsu.edu> wrote:
[snip]
>tad dry and the attrition rate is getting unsightly. Does anyone
>have any suggestions? Experiences? Ideas?
In the Greater Storvik/Ponte Alto area, we hold what is known as the
Sumposion Oikomenikon. Don't ask me who thought up the name, but it's
loosely referred to as Y'all Come To The Party. I took over hosting
these in my home in Storvik after the previous host was stricken by
a serious bout of Mundanitis, and the meetings lapsed. In short, there
are two meetings held each month for newcomers, and I have been working
with the folks in Ponte Alto (we used to be one Big Barony, but the
DC, Suburban Maryland, and Norhtern Virginia area is sooooo big, that
a split was necessary), and we discuss the same topic on both sides
of the river (that's the Potomac), so that if anyone misses one meeting,
they can go to the next one.
What follows is a list of the subjects we've covered in the last year
or so:
Beginning Garb and Accessories
Camping in the SCA
Martial Arts in the SCA: Archery, Duello and Heavy
Household Structure, Awards, and What to do in Court
Choosing a Personal Device, and Other SCA Heraldry
Arts and Sciences: What are They
How to Get Involved in the Society and What to do at Events
History and Geography of the Society
Choosing a Name and Persona
We ask various of the oldtimers who are well versed in these topics
to come in and talk about them and answer questions. Our newcomers
go away with a sense of accomplishment and enthusiasm for new projects.
The pizza people make a bundle, and everyone's happy.
You might want to bandy this idea about at your next business meeting,
but be forwarned, you'll probably end up taking on the task by default.
You know how these things work ("What a great idea. Why don't you organize
it"). ;-) Just remember, have fun with it.
Corun
===============================================================================
Corun MacAnndra |
Dark Horde by birth | Marion Barry....a mayor with conviction.
Moritu by choice | seen on a bumper sticker in DC
From: folo at prairienet.org (F.L. Watkins)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Newcomer Seminars (Was: Newbie Meetings...)
Date: 3 Oct 1994 22:52:13 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
While walking that thin line between informative and just plain
boring at our newcomer meetings, we have found one thing to be
extremely effective, and that is The Free Handbout. We have,
in the course of our meetings, handed out one-page flyers about
attending an event, going to your first feast, basics of heraldry
(really basic), a map of the area and a worksheet for the
newcomer's period impression.
On the other hand, we tried something new at our first meeting
of the semester this year: a quiz about SCA history (nothing
big, just things like "Who won the last Pennsic?", questions
that would open up new areas of thought), with the idea that
newcomers would ask older members, get to know the older
members (there is always a sort of segregation of new and old
members) and find out information painlessly. We gave a copy of
Merald's SCA poster as the prize. Unfortunately, only a couple
of people tried it; one person who wanted the prize completed
the form very quickly, and everyone else just sort of forgot it.
Chalk up one bad idea.
We also have a local-oriented handbook (called _The Newbie
Handbook_, a title that I initially had troubles with but which
the newcomers did not see as any sort of a pejorative). We
started out handing free copies but found that *anyone* would
take the free copy whether se was interested or not; we have
since put a $1 fee (which does not cover costs) on it, and that
minimal charge has seen it going only to persons who are truly
interested.
Yrs, Folo
--
Damin de Folo - F.L.Watkins - folo at prairienet.org
Baron Wurm Wald (MidRealm) - Commander Baldwin's (NWTA)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 04:43:46 -0500
From: maddie teller-kook <meadhbh at io.com>
To: ansteorra at eden.com
Subject: Re: SCA's NEXT GENERATION
Wendy Erisman wrote:
> I would also be interested in hearing what other groups do to get newcomers
> involved. Do you have formal activities like classes, revels, or newcomers'
> households, or is it all done on an informal one-on-one basis?
I know I am new to Bryn Gwlad but, I can speak about what went on in
Stargate.
Every fall and winter, different members of the barony would host
newcomer households. Since Houston is so large, several would be
scheduled. The 'host' would arrange for different members of the group
to come talk about fighting, arts and sciences, the organization,
clothes, culture and history, etc. After about 1-2 months a newcomers
revel was held---this gave everyone a taste of what an event is like.
This was done if no local event was already scheduled. IF the group
already had an event on the calendar....the 'host' would take their new
comer's household as a group to the event. This way, the newcomer had a
contact person, got introduced to other members of the barony and the
transition was less stressful. It is much easier to go to an event when
you know a few people.
Now that I live here in Bryn Gwlad, I too would like to see a
'newcomer's household' or meetings set up to assist new people.
meadhbh
From: Leslie Miller <Miller at pp.okstate.edu>
Organization: Oklahoma State University Phys Plnt
To: ansteorra at eden.com
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:34:52 -0600
Subject: Next generation
HL Octavia de Verdon said:
> I wholeheartedly agree that newcomers should be greeted and made to feel
> wanted. Everyone needs to feel accepted.
> But some folks are better about speaking to strangers than others. Contray
> to popular belief, I am very shy and feel uncomfortable around people I don't
> know. While I work very hard at this "quirk", many times I just don't feel
> up to it. Now if that makes me a BAD OLDTIMER well so be it.! I'm willing
> to bet that there are many of us out there.
Thank you, Octavia, for saying what I have been thinking throughout
this discussion. I have held many offices in my shire, but
hospitaler is not one of them, and there's a reason for that. I am
*extremely* uncomfortable talking to strangers most of the time.
It's not something that comes easily to me, and frankly, it's not
something that I'm particularly good at.
I realize that this does not relieve me of my responsibility to be
open and friendly to newcomers (and yes, I do think of it as a
responsibility, particularly as an officer), and I do try.... but
people should understand that some of us oldtimers may appear a bit
distant and unfriendly not because we don't care, and not because
we're really snooty and clique-ish, but rather because we're simply
shy and uncomfortable around strangers. That's not an excuse; just
an explanation.
One thing my shire does occasionally is introduce everyone at
populace meetings. I don't know if this would be feasible for large
groups, but it seems pretty effective in a smaller setting. It gives
newcomers a chance to introduce themselves in a formalized setting
and announce that they are new, if they so desire. (Sometimes I
think newcomers are overlooked simply because people who attend
meetings off and on may not realize that they *are* newcomers,
especially if they show up in garb and look like they have a clue
about what is going on.) I don't know if I wouldn't find
this a bit intimidating, personally, but it does give everyone their
moment in the spotlight with an opportunity to learn names and faces.
HL Gunhilda
From: chuck_diters at mail.fws.gov
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 97 09:34:50 -0700
To: <ansteorra at eden.com>
Subject: Re[2]: Badges and Terms
A few days ago I mentioned our annual Eskalyan Newcomers event on this
list, and the discussion of "badges and terms" brings to mind another
little thing we do at that event. It is certainly not a _period_
activity (in fact, it steals shamelessly from party ice-breakers and
some team-building seminar behaviors), but it does tend to (a) get our
newborn cousins involved; (b) get our populace--at least the
officers--involved; and (c) provide some background and recognition of
the structure, function, and regalia of the Society.
At the beginning of the event (and whenever any newcomer enters
through Constable's Point--which is also staffed by the Chatelaine or
a deputy) a contest is announced, asking all the new to collect
"Pearls of Wisdom" {sorry ;-) } by seeking information from the
officers and populace. The officers in turn are all identified by
(rather gaudy representations of) their badges of office, and both
they and the populace are armed with a pouchful of (plastic) pearls.
There is an additional increment of pearls available to all newcomers
who complete a form (sorry again) with the names and offices of all of
the officers along with a two or three word description of their
functions. [In this latter, neatness does not count, no points are
taken off for spelling, and any reasonable approximation of the right
answer is rewarded.]
These pearls are then used as currency in an auction prior to the
prize tournament. The successful bidder (occasionally "bidders," in
the case of a couple or family who have wisely pooled their resources)
for the fighter who ultimately wins the prize tourney is invited to
join that fighter at high table for feast, along with the Baron and
Baroness.
There are other twists, but that's the general idea.
Bjarni
************************************************************************
Chuck Diters/Bjarni Edwardsson West/Oertha/Eskalya
Shadowood Manor, 9541 Victor Road, Anchorage, AK 99515-1470
ph: (907)344-5753 Email: chuck_diters at mail.fws.gov
From: njones at ix.netcom.com
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 12:16:38 -0500
To: ansteorra at eden.com
Subject: Re: SCA's NEXT GENERATION
On the topic of newcomer's revels:
> What a terrific idea. It gives someone new a chance to show their stuff.
> It also gives a new member a sense of belonging and contributing to the
> group.
When I got into the SCA not too many years ago, Bjornsborg had a very
active Hospitaler. She arranged classes on general SCA topics and had
"experts" in that area come and give talks about it (ex. Mari and
Ragnar gave the class on personna.)
After a few months, we had a Newcomer's Event as just a local weekend
thing. But, instead of her doing the organizing, we were in charge.
I was the autocrat, Matilde' Bro:tbaker was the feast person. It was
very well attended by the barony, we had cool prizes for the winner
of the light and heavy lists and went on to have a great revel at
the hospitaler's home. The party lasted until four in the morning!
I like to think that doing that event started me out on the path
I am on now in the SCA. A path of doing service, entertaining, and
having a great time socializing.
Gio
Northkeep
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 17:28:49 -0500
From: margali <margali at 99main.com>
Subject: Re: SC - paid reservations?
> Part and parcel of the reservations question is the issue of
> cancellations. Ideally they should be made in advance, as far in advance
> as possible, in fact. However, in an imperfect but all too real world,
>
> they are sometimes made on the morning of the event. Frequently someone
> will show up at the check-in and say that their friend, Lord or Lady
> Stickinthemud, will be unable to attend, and the porter, troll, etc.,
> should please feel free to sell that seat elsewhere. Sometimes event
> staff will allow reservations to be transferrable, in a case where a
> group has made a reservation for several people, have a cancellation,
> and then wish to invite someone else in place of the person who couldn't
> make it. One might argue that the people on a waiting list should have
>
> right of first refusal in such cases. Sometimes they do, sometimes
> not.
>
> Adamantius
In my household, we often have the custom of 'buying' an entire table,
on the basis of the habit we have developed of convincing people we know
mundanely into coming and trying an event at no cost to them, garb,
feast, feastgear and all. for a couple of very lean years we had to stop
the practice, but we are getting back into it. We have never really had
trouble with any autocrat-we explain at the time we make reservations
what we are doing-only once did we have to resort to making 'lord doe
and lady ewe' reservations. it is also great if we run into any new
people who wander by and like what they see...I think that over the past
15 years, we have gotten about 70-75 people to join up.
margali
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:56:29 MST
From: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" <gdc at airmail.net>
Subject: Re: ANST - old problem, new format (was: anonymous post about website)
To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
>Good advice. I think telling people to contact the Hospitaller or Seneschal
>on any website or "newbie" publication is a good idea, too. That way they
>know at least somebody who can show them the ropes.
>Einarr
A point to your advice.....keep in mind that a newcomer will not know what a
seneschal is nor that by contacting a hospitaller they will be contacting
the person in charge of newcomers. So, if you have a web page for your
Barony, Shire, or Canton you might want to add to the tittle of hospitaller
something like "newcomers contact".
Genevieve de Courtanvaux
From: "Celeste Courtenay de Montmorency" <montomorency at hotmail.com>
To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: ANST - Newcomer Maintenance Programs....
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 03:48:15 CDT
I am Lady Celeste Courtenay de Montmorency of the Barony of Eldern Hills.
Sometime in the beginning of my time as hospitaler I did a mentor program.
The barony put requirements on the mentors that I could use. They said that
mentors had to have been in the SCA for over three years. They also had to
already have their AOAs. There was another requirement but I don't remember
what it was. I perfectly understand their reasons for doing this but it
caused a lot of problems. It severely limited the number of people that I
could use. The way the program worked is that I would match a newcomer with
a mentor based on their interests. For example, I tried to match someone
interested in cooking with someone who was known for medieval cooking. This
was a good idea on the surface. It didn't work because I only had about 5
people at that time that I could use for mentors. The result was that I
would have too many people assigned to one mentor. It was just too much. We
just discussed having this program again and trying it a different way. We
are going to discuss it in more detail at our next officer's meeting. After
that, I'll let you know the details.
I used to have newcomer's meetings twice a month. I don't anymore because no
one was showing up. It's hard around here to match schedules when a decent
number of people can actually make guild meetings.
Lady Celeste
Hospitaler of the Barony of Eldern Hills
From: "Donna Wallis" <mama_mac at airmail.net>
To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: ANST - Newcomer Maintenance Programs....
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 10:18:13 -0500
From: <DonnelShaw at aol.com>
> Talk to house Mac. they had/have the best newcommers program I have seen.
Thank you, Donnel.
House Mac an Ghabhann is the welcoming committee (because a member of House
Mac "usually" holds the office of Hospitaler) from the Canton of Loch Ruadh
within the Barony of Elfsea.
We take a newcomer by the hand to meetings, workshops, fighter practices,
events and Court. Generally this person is paired up with someone who has
the same interests. This is usually figured out after a populace meeting.
We always go for coffee after our meeting and newcomer's are always issued a
"special invitation" to join us. This is important because, when I first
became interested in the SCA I felt very much like an intruder! So we that
extra effort to include newcomers and make them feel welcome. We not only
answer questions, we also ask questions. This let's a newcomer know "you"
are interested in them.
We then make sure they have a local newsletter, the calendar along with
names and phone numbers is important. We also make sure we have their
contact information. We call to remind them of upcoming meetings.
We make sure they are ready for that first event. We help them gather
and/or furnish garb, feast gear, and if camping, camping gear. Troll/gate
is a scary place for newcomers, if you haven't explained all those blanks
they are expected to fill-in!!! We try to hold their hands until they feel
comfortable going out on their own.
I could go on and on....my best advice is: remember what it was like to be
a newcomer, we were all there once.
Dana Mac Ghabhann
AKA Mama Mac
Subject: Re: ANST - Hospitler Stuff
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 13:57:37 -0600
From: "Chiara" <chiara at io.com>
To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
Web wise I would suggest that each local group create their own webpage for
the hospitaler that talks about the area. Where to buy fabric is number one,
leather, metal, wood, fighting supplies in general follow. We made one for
the steppes area that tells newcomers where all our fabric shopping can be
found. I am still waiting for other sources of shopping for the other areas
of interest based on the emails from our newcomers and what they ask for
when we are face to face. After that there is a general faq compiled from
other questions that they actually ask. This is the foothold that launches a
good number of them to show up already garbed and supplied. It is just
amazing!
On the face to face interaction I have noticed a trend in demos not being as
popular to announce and attend sca wide. I am not sure why that is. But on
that note the Texas Irish Festival is just around the corner, please come by
and help out if you can. Contact Michelle Hanson <bmhanson at airmail.net> :)
Sincerely,
Franchesca Havas
McKinney, Texas
From: "gtaylor" <gtaylor at lonestar.jpl.utsa.edu>
> I'm soliciting feedback on Hospitaler issues.
>
> Anybody have any ideas that will help us attract and retain new folks?
>
> Also...there are two hospitaler pages. The one is for the new folks
> themselves.
> http://www.ansteorra.org/regnum/hospitaler/
>
> The second is for hospitalers (it's a little out of date...but has good
> info for folks to grab for distribution). Since we all really should be
> greeting and providing info for new people, this page is for you, too.
> Of particular interest may be the one html page that can be attached as
> an html document to emails...and comes up as a very pretty "Intro to
> Ansteorra and the SCA" info page...
> http://www.ansteorra.org/regnum/hospitaler/hospitalers.html
>
> Isobel
Subject: [Ansteorra] Helping the newcomer survive.. (was Ansteorran Digest)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 23:42:40 -0600
From: <iainmacc at juno.com>
To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
On Tue, 1 Jan 2002 14:38:48 EST Gormlaith4444 at aol.com writes:
> I have a few suggestions to help the Society assimilate new members.
> One,
> all members "including nobility," might help out by volunteering to become a
> mentor. Perhaps people who have been in the Society for 3 years or more
> would be the best candidates. Mentors could be available to new folks for
> questions, helping them to understand the rules and culture of this wondrous
> game we play.
I was thinking earlier when I saw a reference to "making the
nobles more accessible" that it would probably be more accurate (and more
helpful) to say, "making the experienced members more accessible". We all
try to serve The Dream in our own way, but sometimes it's far too easy to
forget that that confused person in mundanes, watching from a distance at
fighter practice, is often the future of the Dream we serve. Further,
once we get him/her into garb and to an event, it's difficult to pick
him/her out from the old dinosaurs that have been here since dirt was
new. But just because he/she is hard to spot now doesn't make them any
less confused. They need to have someone they can go to with their
questions. They need to be able to find that person easily. If a newcomer
has met perhaps a dozen people at fighter practice, and now is at his
first event (Steppes Warlord, 800+ people on site, huge acreage of the
Canton site), he is almost certainly lost. It's one thing to CHOOSE to
run loose and learn on your own, it's another to be completely adrift and
have no refuge from the bewilderment of it all.
With all due respect to the Hospitalers, at any but the smallest
events, the job is simply too big for a single individual, no matter what
resources they may have.
> Mentors can help with damage control as well. We loose many new members due
> to the fact there are not many folks willing to run damage control. Even
> though I had a strong desire to play, I was discouraged many many times by
> thoughtless individuals, and sometimes by the nastiness of politics
I don't want to sound as if I am disagreeing, but this seems to
me an area to be very careful. When asking people to run damage control,
a poor choice can result in more damage than was done to begin with. Yes,
we need people to do this. But it's difficult to do well, and we cannot
afford to have it done poorly.
> New comer involvement is one of the strongest tools we have in helping people
> become interested in playing and sticking around to play some more. However,
> it can be very difficult for a new comer to be brave enough to stick their
> necks out and be the ones to always pursue Society involvement. I remember a
> few times being brave enough to stick my neck out and I got it cut off. It
I've seen this happen. What to me was worse was when I moved to a
new Kingdom, a new Barony, went to fighter practice.... I'll avoid naming
anyplace. They welcomed me, told me they were glad to see me, asked me
for my address, apologized for not having a local newsletter to give me
right then, swore they would get one out to me... and I never heard
another word. I went back to fighter practice 4 times over the course of
8 months and had this happen to me every single time. It resulted in a 5
year haitus from the SCA for me. I cannot express how wonderful it was to
come back to Ansteorra, where I knew there were ways I could actually
find out things. Had I been a newcomer at the time, instead of having
already had over 10 years in the SCA, that response would have driven me
away permanently.
Granted, this was before internet access was common, which helps
to alleviate the problem somewhat. I believe the fact remains, however,
that following up on newcomer contacts is something that is vital to
making those new people feel accepted and at home. It is unreasonable to
expect the Hospitaler to be at every demo and every fighter practice.
They have mundane lives, they go to events, they get sick, they have
weddings and holidays. The average guy at fighter practice needs to have
the resources to cover this. Either that, or every Hospitaler needs to
have at least 2 or 3 deputies.
> might be logical to say that new folks should come up to people and say "hi
> my name is...." It is not reality. Many new comers hang back
I agree. "Peer fear" is something experienced by people who have
been in the SCA for years, we certainly can't expect newcomers to be
immune to it.
> This does not mean new comers should be overwhelmed with work and
> responsibility, more than anything that can burn folks out and run them off.
> Mentors can help new folks keep from biting off more than they can chew.
> Mentors can help new players become involved in an interest rather it be
> fighting, dancing, A&S, etc. Guild involvement could be a great tool in
> helping new people become involved in a fun way, and most important, have a
> reason to stay involved. Guilds might be a great source to look for possible
> mentors. Cooperation use mentors to acclimate new employees, why not use the
> same strategy to increase our own Society's membership and active
> involvement.
Good points. Chief among them, I think, is this: The new guy sees
everyone he knows running themselves ragged at events (most people's
first event is a "home" event I think, so all his new friends are at
least the hosting branch, if not actually event staff) and having the
time of their lives. He doesn't want to be a distraction to these people
who are working, yet he doesn't know how to help without taking someone
away from what they are doing, so they can tell him what he can do. If he
has the spirit that makes him want to be in there helping in the first
place, then "Don't worry about it, just sit back and play this time
around, we've got it covered" is not a satisfactory answer for him. While
I hate to suggest yet another position for event staff (since there
doesn't seem to be a group anywhere without manpower problems at events)
perhaps if there was one person whose job was to tell interested new
people what they could do to be helpful, to feel like "part of the team",
it might help keep them interested AND help with the manpower crush into
the bargain.
> What about a quick questionnaire or interview of new people who have been
> around for a year or so? Wouldn't it be nice to hear from new members what
> we did right to help keep them around? What valuable information
> that would be!
I think it would be priceless, myself.
> have been
> here, in my new home, there has been only 2 people who have actually shown
> any interest in my participation. It would be nice to have a mentor
> available here to help become established and involved in a new group and I
> am a long standing paid member. What I am trying to say is, sometimes, it
> takes a little more than just "hi, welcome, heres some information for you to
> read," to get people involved and stay involved.
Another good point, and another reason why I think that this
really can't be the Nobles'/Peerage's job. Much of the Nobility and the
Peerage has other demands on their time. When you subtract those who are
holding lands, teaching students, holding offices, mentoring people for
larger jobs like event steward, etc. etc. (usually 2 or more of the
above), you probably don't have all that many left. And while being
called into Court can be fun, it cannot give you the feeling of, "yeah,
I've met him, he's a good guy" that sitting around a fire gabbing for an
hour or two can give you. If a newcomer is feeling lost at an event, I'd
bet he'll be much more likely to go to the guy he talked to for an hour
at fighter practice, rather than to the Baroness he talked to for 30 or
40 seconds at populace meeting. Even if "Peer fear" were not a factor,
the Nobles' previous commitment of their time and attention, combined
with human nature drawing people toward those they already know a little
better, would make it more difficult and less effective for much of the
Nobility.
The bottom line is that I may respect the officer, and I may lay
down my life for him, but there are just some jobs that are really better
done by a sergeant.
Iain MacCrimmon
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Newcomer help
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 14:27:36 -0700 (MST)
From: Audette des Grenouilles<audette at sapheron.org>
To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
One of the things that I have heard newcomers lament about is that they do
not _know_ they can just start asking questions. They worry about asking
the wrong thing, or bothering the wrong person.
It can be very intimidating at your first encounter, because everyone
seems to know each other, and they all appear to be a cohesive group, with
you on the outside.
It can be very helpful to have people at practices and demos who will walk
up to newcomers and ask if there is anything they'd like to learn about.
By doing this it allows them to understand that they can just start asking
about anything they see.
Before moving to Ansteorra, the barony I resided in had a _very_
enthusiastic voluteer to do this, and she did an amazing job of helping
newcomers feel much more comfortable and welcomed. She attended all the
practices, events, and demos she could. She had prepared information
sheets, and there were at least several people in each area she could call
over to help explain the particulars of a style of fighting or a type of
handicraft. She had lists of contact information for people willing to
assist newcomers.
Mostly, though, she was there to talk to people who saw what we were doing
and were curious. She helped them find the answers to questions they
didn't know how to ask.
Timid or quiet newcomers could be greatly assisted by sca members
approaching them, rather than assuming they will speak up when they are
curious enough.
Audette des Grenouilles
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Newcomer help
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 13:49:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Mahee<mahee_of_acre at yahoo.com>
To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
> One of the things that I have heard newcomers lament about is that
> they do not _know_ they can just start asking questions. They worry
> about asking the wrong thing, or bothering the wrong person.
>
> It can be very intimidating at your first encounter, because everyone
> seems to know each other, and they all appear to be a cohesive group,
> with you on the outside.
The easiest way I have found to make people feel at home is have them
join me for feast. I do not know how many feast I have shared my table
with a newcomer, but it has always been rewarding and I think all of
them are still active players instead of just onetimers.
It is what you would do to bring somebody into your family at home, so
do it at events as well...it works.
mahee
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Newcomer help
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 16:03:27 -0600
From: LEE A LEMONS<lalemons at flash.net>
To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
> The easiest way I have found to make people feel at home is have them
> join me for feast. I do not know how many feast I have shared my table
> with a newcomer, but it has always been rewarding and I think all of
> them are still active player instead of just onetimers.
>
> It is what you would do to bring somebody into your family at home, so
> do it at events as well...it works.
>
> mahee
I agree, Mahee! Ask a newcomer to sit with you at feast! If it is during
the day, ask them to join you in whatever activity you're doing (shameless
plug for charter painting), and so on. I never really felt a part of a
group or an event until I was actually involved in an activity, whether
working in the kitchen cutting up vegetables, someone showing me how to
throw an ax, or if the person just took the time to find out what I was
interested in and managed to direct me to someone who could help me out.
The loneliest time at an event, for me, was at feast. No one to sit with,
everyone seemed to be in some household or group, and all the table spaces
were reserved for someone else. For the truly shy people in our Society,
feast is just a horrible time and usually the time to go home. Please
don't assume someone has a place to sit or someone to be with, even if they
look like they have been playing forever. Ask, ask, ask! : )
Curstaidh
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: SCA Online Demo
From: Robert Uhl <eadmund42 at NOSPAMgmail.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 19:13:20 -0600
I saw <http://www.scademo.com/>; recommended on the tribe.net SCA group
<http://sca.tribe.net/>;; it's a pretty decent little introduction to the
SCA, or at least the bits of it which I've read are.
--
Guthlac of Caerthe
From: Sandy Straubhaar <orchzis at hotmail.com>
Date: July 5, 2006 11:15:36 AM CDT
To: bryn-gwlad at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Bryn-gwlad] Newcomers & Guilds
Anna wrote:
> Guilds can play a large role in helping newcomers. They can be a much
> less intimidating experience than talking to Mistress Sir Spiffy at
> PiP about 16th century embroidery, as you have folks at all skill
> levels doing all kinds of things, and if something someone is doing
> is particularly interesting, you can get a lot more individualized
> attention. Newbies should be referred to guilds early and often.
What she said. If there hadn't been small gatherings in people's houses way
back in the day when I first started playing (before dirt was invented, when
Heck was a pup, insert random old-fogey phrase here) -- embroidery circles,
book discussions, sing-madrigals sessions, watch-a-movie-and-pick-it-apart
sessions, whatever (we didn't call 'em "guilds" yet), I wouldn't've stuck
around. I was never one for the big business meeting or big group meeting
outside of an event itself. Yay guilds, for enthusiasm and camaderie!
brynhildr
From: tmcd at panix.com
Date: July 6, 2006 11:21:20 AM CDT
To: Barony of Bryn Gwlad <bryn-gwlad at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Bryn-gwlad] Banner to welcome newcomers
I posted a question to the SCA Heralds list and got what I think is a
most sensible answer.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 00:54:48 -0700
From: heather jones <heather.jones at EARTHLINK.NET>
To: SCAHRLDS at LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Banner to welcome newcomers
On Jul 5, 2006, at 11:37 PM, Tim McDaniel wrote:
> Barony in Ansteorra. People want a banner to welcome newcomers to
> populace. I don't see an SCA-wide or Ansteorran design. Am I
> missing something? Any suggestions?
I don't know if the intended purpose is similar, but after much
pointless designing of cutesy "newcomer logos", a number of Western
encampments have settled for a simple banner with the words "Visitors
welcome" to express an active invitation to new people to enter and
hang out in sunshades, pavilions, etc. (It had to be pointed out with
some emphasis that it didn't do any good to designate a heraldic design
that symbolized newcomers since, by definition, they wouldn't have any
reason to know what it symbolized -- all the heraldry would be equally
opaque.)
Tangwystyl
From: Dragonetti <dragonetti at generich.com>
Date: August 26, 2006 5:01:33 PM CDT
To: "Ansteorra List (ansteorra at ansteorra.org)"
<ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Cc: Barony of Elfsea <elfsea at lists.ansteorra.org>, DFT List
<dragonsfire-tor at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Ansteorra] Helpful suggestion to engage newcomers
Greetings Dear Friends,
I am forwarding a message that appeared recently on the Grand Council list
where we are discussing ways the Board of Directors might encourage
membership. I think many groups, hospitalers, autocrats, etc, might
benefit from this simple idea.
In the service of kingdom and crown, I remain,
Baron Armand Dragonetti
Grand Councellor
Appointed from Ansteorra
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fiskr
> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 4:34 PM
> To: Grand Council Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [scagc-l] Membership discussion
>
> I found a great looking old box at Hobby Lobby. It was about 15" X 15"
> by 8" deep, and it had ten drawers. When I first got to an
> event I'd hunt down "hats" and Peers and get them to cough
> up, er, donate a token or favor or bauble or something, and I
> put one item in each drawer. Then I went on a newcomer hunt,
> asking EVERYBODY if they'd seen any first timers. Upon
> finding my quarry, I'd ask them to pick a drawer, any drawer
> (always making sure that each drawer was stocked with a
> favor). I told the new person that what they had was a gift
> freely given to them from someone at this event. Since we are
> a society of honor, the only proper thing to do was to thank
> the donor. Sadly, I'm an old man and don't recall just which
> person gave that gift, so you must approach everyone you
> meet, introduce yourself, and ask if they are the original
> owner of the favor. Heh.
>
> It was the most amazing ice breaker, and gave each new person
> a hand held reason to talk to anyone they fancied. I haven't
> done this in years, and suddenly wonder why.
>
> Fiskr, going off to search the garage for the old box...
To: Gleann Abhann (mail list) <gleannabhann at yahoogroups.com>
Subject: w: SCA Newcomers Kits challenge
Posted by: "David Backlin" edrei at smythkepe.org quiet2284
Date: Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:06 am ((PDT))
----- Original Message -----
SCA Newcomers Kits challenge
https://sites.google.com/site/projectscanewcomerskit/home
Read the simple rules, and see if you can improve on the sheer cheapness and
awesomeness of the Feast kit or Heavy kit. Or, feel free to invent your own
Rapier Kit
Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 07:43:18 +1000
From: Zebee Johnstone <zebeej at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] Lochac Digest, Vol 30, Issue 1
To: "The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list"
<lochac at lochac.sca.org>
On Sun, May 1, 2011 at 1:34 AM, Vilma Thompson <vlt at westnet.com.au> wrote:
<<< This was my first Rowany Festival, and although the "quad-bikes" were a bit
of a bother, we refer them as "the roaring of the dragon", and gave them no
more though. The team organizing the event was very good and there were only
minor incidents (that I was aware of). I did see quite a few people who were
"un-garbed" but as I was not one of the constables it was not my place to
challenge them. >>>
Perhaps not to challenge them but we should all be saying to such
people "Hello, can I help you? Are you looking for someone?"
If they say they are "just looking" explain "This is a private party,
but we do welcome people who are willing to make a bit of effort to
fit in. If you want to look around that's fine, but we ask you wear
some medieval clothes. Shall I find someone who can lend you some?"
If they say yes, then take them to the troll tent.
If you see people wandering about in mundane gear it isn't someone
else's job to talk to them, it's yours.
And we aren't about challenging them, we are about luring them to
their doom :) So be alluring! Invite them to play, tell them of the
very very small effort they will need to make, and if they aren't
willing to make it that's when you say "well it is a private party so
please leave now." Most people will leave at that point, if they
don't that's when others have to get involved.
It isn't the constable's job to talk to people who have wandered in,
it is everyone's job. Because you wouldn't be here if you weren't
enthusiastic about the SCA, and it's enthusiasts saying "Isn't it
great! Please, come and have fun with us!" that get new people in.
Silfren
To: scanewcomers at yahoogroups.com
From: marlztone at yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 23:49:03 +0000
Subject: [SCA Newcomers] Challenge Issued (West Kingdom)!!
At the Westermark Shipwrecked Madness event, I issued a challenge before those in attendance at Court. It is critically important to our Kingdom, Principalities and local Branches to continually bring in new people. As the years pass by, those of us with energy and innovative ideas need to learn and gain wisdom from those who have the cherished obligation to pass along their wisdom. We have a great deal of wisdom in our corner of the Known World. Although we have some newness, innovation and energetic dreamers, we can always use more and more.
I Challenge ALL Baronies, Provinces, Shires, Cantons, Ridings, Colleges, Strongholds, and Ports in the West Kingdom to bring in our future generations. Bring in the elderly, bring in the youths, bring in everyone who has the potential to make our Kingdom and Society great!!
Every (local) group in the Kingdom of the West is encouraged to participate!! I will be presenting a prize to the Group that brings in the most (see below) to be presented to the Baron and Baroness or Seneschal and Chatelain (if not a Barony). There will also be a trophy of sorts to display the great work your group contributed to the Kingdom during the year. The "trophy" will be passed along to the winner of the next year's competition).
Here are the details:
This Competition begins and ends at Purgatorio Coronation. This year's competition begins at the previous Purg (2011) and ends at the next Purg (2012).
Bring in people and when they attend their 5th SCA event, send us their information (and your Branch Info) to be counted (see below).
Once we tally the numbers, we will announce and present the prize and trophy to the winning Branch. I encourage Royalty at all levels to add incentives to the deal, if they so wish.
Each person will count as 1 point. Paid Members of the SCA will count as an additional point. Those who, through their amazing acts of service and worth, are awarded an Award of Arms (or an award that conveys an Award of Arms) will count for an additional point. Any one person may count for a possibility of 3 Points total (one for attending their 5th event, another for also becoming a member of the SCA and another for becoming Armigerous.
To count at all, the new person must have attended their 5th event (even if they are already paid members and/or Armigerous).
If your Branch is sending us information for the first time, please include:
Branch Name:
Branch Level (Barony, Province, Shire, College, etc):
Branch Location (Cynagua, Mists, Oertha, Marches):
Baron and Baroness (Mundane and SCA if Barony):
Baron and Baroness's Contract (Email and Phone if Barony):
Seneschal Name (Mundane and SCA):
Seneschal Contact: (Email and Phone)
Chatelain Name (Mundane and SCA):
Chatelain Contact: (Email and Phone)
Please include the following information for those who you are submitting. Remember that they must have attended 5 or more SCA events since Purg 2011 and before Purg 2012 to be counted this year.
SCA Name (if they have one):
Mundane Name:
Branch Name:
Paid SCA Member (Yes / No):
Armiger (AOA)(Yes / No):
Please send this info to: rivenoakbaron at yahoo . com / rivenoakbaron at gmail . com (please send to both)(the Baron, me) AND elevendytwo at gmail . com (Our Chatelain Muirgen)
If you have any questions, please let me know,
Seamus, Baron of Rivenoak
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