chairs-msg - 10/18/13
Medieval and SCA chairs.
NOTE: See also these files: furniture-msg, beds-msg, brooms-msg, wood-msg, woodworking-msg, tools-msg, tools-bib, candles-msg, candlesticks-msg.
************************************************************************
NOTICE -
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.
Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).
Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mjc+ at cs.cmu.edu (Monica Cellio)
Subject: Re: "Viking" chairs
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1993 14:56:28 GMT
odlin at reed.edu (Iain Odlin) writes:
> Could someone be so kind as to post instructions? I'd just go ahead and use
> "By-guess-and-by-God," but I don't know what these chairs look like... ;)
The chair consists of two pieces. One is a board with a rectangular hole
about a foot from one end; the other is a board that's full width at one end
and after about a foot or so narrows to a paddle that fits through the hole.
You put the paddle in the hole and stand the chair on the paddle end and the
bottom edge of the other board. From sideways-on it looks sort of like an
"X", but with the cross below center.
The exact measurements will depend on what's comfortable for your body. I
started with an 8' 2x10 and cut it into pieces roughly 4.5' and 3'5'. The
longer became the back (and was planned so that I could lean my head back on
it; I'm short). The hole is about a foot from the bottom and is about
1.75 (thickness of the other board plus a bit) x 4", as I recall. (The
chairs are put away at the moment.) You want the hole to be wide enough
to make the paddle stable but narrow enough to not weaken the wood to either
side in the back piece. The other piece has something like a 12" or 13"
long seat, and the rest is the paddle, cut just slightly smaller than the
hole.
Hints: The easiest way to cut the hole is to draw the rectangle on the
board, apply a drill to the corners, and then use the saw with the skinny
little blade (jig saw?) to cut the sides of the rectangle. I had the owner
of ths tools cut the paddle with a circular saw while I stood a good distance
away. :-) I cut across the diagonals on the front of the seat and the top
of the back, about an inch or two in, to avoid sharp corners. I then sanded
all the edges by hand and worked the aforementioned corners until they were
almost smooth curves using a hand-held tool that's something of a cross
between a plane and a cheese grater. (I can't remember what it's called.)
Note that you don't want to do more than minimal sanding on the hole; if you
remove too much wood from the hole and the paddle, the chair will be wobbly.
You want a tight fit.
I then stained the chair and applied a coat of non-glossy finish. This is
probably not strictly necessary (they don't do it on picnic tables, for
instance), but it made the thing look nicer.
Safety hint: if you work with green wood (the chemical-laden stuff, which
is what's commonly available), be sure to work outdoors and wear a mask to
prevent all the sawdust from getting into your lungs. And of course, you
should always wear safety goggles when doing the cutting.
By the way, this "pattern" is fairly easy to tinker with. I made two
chairs; the first was the pattern. To make the first one, I cut the hole
a little higher than I thought I'd need and the seat a little longer than
I thought I'd need, and then I put it together and adjusted by cutting from
the bottom of the back and the front of the seat until I was happy. Then
I made the second one to those specs. And the first one is perfectly usable;
it's just a little shorter.
Ellisif
mjc at cs.cmu.edu
To: Mark Harris
From: Monica Cellio
Date: 6/8/93
RE>"Viking" chairs
Greetings! I'm glad my second post helped you. Just want to clarify one
thing: I have seen no evidence that these chairs are earlier than the 1980s.
They could be SCA inventions for all I know. I have seen *no* documentation
for them. But random wooden furniture beats director's chairs any day, in
my opinion. :-)
Good luck!
Ellisif
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt at pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: "Viking" chairs
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1993 19:47:40 GMT
In article <mjc.739464988 at NL.CS.CMU.EDU> mjc+ at cs.cmu.edu (Monica Cellio) writes:
>of the back, about an inch or two in, to avoid sharp corners. I then sanded
>all the edges by hand and worked the aforementioned corners until they were
>almost smooth curves using a hand-held tool that's something of a cross
>between a plane and a cheese grater. (I can't remember what it's called.)
Sounds like a Stanely Surform tool. You could also use a plane, a
spokeshave or (for the brave) a drawknife.
>Note that you don't want to do more than minimal sanding on the hole; if you
>remove too much wood from the hole and the paddle, the chair will be wobbly.
>You want a tight fit.
Try using a chisel with the flat side to the wood.
In general, do not take a cutting tool ( plane, surform, spokeshave,
chisel.....) to a piece that has been sanded. Do all cutting *first*.
Sanding leaves bits of abrasive grit imbedded in the wood that are
very destructive to cutting edges.
--Hal
Hal Ravn, West Kingdom
Wilson H. Heydt, Jr., Albany, CA 94706, 510/524-8321 (home)
--
Hal Heydt |
Analyst, Pacific*Bell | If you think the system is working,
510-823-5447 | Ask someone who's waiting for a prompt.
whheydt at pbhya.PacBell.COM |
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: goobers at iastate.edu (Tom R Dennis)
Subject: Viking chairs ala Sot
Summary: basic construction
Keywords: pillage
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1993 00:37:56 GMT
I have been hearing a people describing a 'viking' chair and it's
construction. I don't know if this is viking or not, but I first saw it at a
Buckskinner encampment and being any good Viking I borrowed the idea and made
one nice to sit in and easy to takedown and transport.
Some basic tools needed are a drill, saber saw (jig saw), sander (nice
but not absolutely necessary), and hand saw.
Materials needed are 1" x 12" x ... and 1" x 4" x ... oak or other
hardwood. Note: don't use pine unless it's at least 2" thick as narrower
widths bust like twigs.
Layout:
| 43" |
----------------------------------- --
| _ |
| Back |_| | 12"
| |
----------------------------------- --
| 10" |
This is the back piece of the chair. A slot is cutout 10" from the
bottom of the back to allow for the cross piece to go through Thus a 1"x 3
1/2" slot is cut (a 4" piece of wood is not really 4" but 3 1/2" and a 12"
piece is really 11 1/2"). Additonally, a 1" x 12" piece should be added
around the slot area to give the slot extra strength as this is a very high
stress area especially if you are large like me (run the grain 90 degrees to
the back so as to give maximum strength).
| 32" |
--------- --
| |
- -------------------------------------- |
4" | | | 16"
- -------------------------------------- |
| |
--------- --
For the cross piece, cut a 1" x 12" 16" long and a 1" x 4" 32" long.
Fasten the 1" x 12" x 16" piece to the 1" x 4" with glue and steel wood
screws.
Once the beast has been cut out, sand it and put what ever kind of
wood sealant that you like one the wood.
Assembly:
Insert the cross piece through the slot in the back piece. Also, some
minor adjustments might be necessary to make sure that the cross piece fits
into the slot of the back piece. Don't make the fit tight as it will be a
royal bitch to take appart after the wood expands a bit from being out in the
great out doors. Conversly, the slot should not be to loose, but a little
wobble doesn't hurt it any, especially after adding the reinforcement piece on
the back piece.
\ The assembly looks a bit like this exept that
\ the cross piece and the back piece form more of
\ a 90 degree angle than is shown (what do you
\ expect from crappy editors any way)
\
\
\ / The chair is real comfortable, i've passed er
\/ I mean fell asleep many a time in it at revels.
/\
/ \
Also, if your unsure of the design, make one using 2" x 12" and 2" x
4" pine and try it out. Changes can be made in the seat height and sitting
angle by changing the location of the slot in the back piece and the length of
the cross piece.
Hope that this is of some help and if anyone has any questions please
don't hesitate to ask via email.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
{ Tom R. Dennis (515) 292 - 0747 / Money, it's a gas. Grab that cash }
{ aka Alric the Sot / with both hands and make a dash. }
{ goobers at iastate.edu / P. Floyd }
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: rsmiley at netcom.com (Richard Smiley)
Subject: Re: Tournaments Illuminated #113 -- review and commentary
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 1995 15:31:08 GMT
In article <3m3jr4$bi3 at newsbf02.news.aol.com>, CONNECT <connect at aol.com> wrote:
>Dani of the Seven Wells (dani at telerama.lm.com) says:
>
>>>>The (newly arrived) Winter, 1995 issue of TI was of mediocre quality --
>uninspiring, but not actively bad. It gave the impression of having
>been put together in a hurry.<<<
>
>>>>"Constructing a 15th Century Monastery Chair" is another how-to
>article.
>It's written for readers with above-average access to tools. I was not
>able to personally judge the quality of the instructions.<<<
>
>What would have been very helpful was a picture of the completed project.
>As it is, the impression I had was of a beach/lounge chair, and that's
>certaintly not hoopskirt-proof. :( There must be something flat across to
>sit on, but there is no picture describing it so. So, I don't know if I
>should have my father-in-law construct one or not.
>
The construction of this chair is very poor. The way that the author
describes it, the back will shear because of the angle crossing the
grain. If the chair were constructed using period methods this would not
be as big a problem and it would be much easier to put together. You
might look up a copy of "The Woodwrights Eclectic Workshop" by Roy
Underhill. He discusses a similar chair that give some insight into how
this chair could be made better.
Malcom MacPherson, OL
West Kingdom
From: uccxdem at okway.okstate.edu (David Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Tournaments Illuminated #113 -- review and commentary
Date: 12 Apr 1995 19:50:21 GMT
Organization: OSU CIS
In article <rsmileyD6rxrw.649 at netcom.com>, rsmiley at netcom.com (Richard Smiley) says:
Greetings to all from Marke
>>Stuff from Dani deleted
>The construction of this chair is very poor. The way that the author
>describes it, the back will shear because of the angle crossing the
>grain. If the chair were constructed using period methods this would not
>be as big a problem and it would be much easier to put together. You
>might look up a copy of "The Woodwrights Eclectic Workshop" by Roy
>Underhill. He discusses a similar chair that give some insight into how
>this chair could be made better.
>
>Malcom MacPherson, OL
>West Kingdom
Master Malcom,
I beg to differ on this chair on several points. The shear tendency for
the woods recommended for the chair are fairly high. The oldest chair, ~2
years old, shows no signs of cracking, even after having almost 300 lbs
of knight and armor plopping into it multiple times. I don't understand
your reference to 'constructed using period methods'. The first chair was
built with hand saws, chisels, hand planes. A drill was used to make the
steel rod holes instead of a hot iron. If you are refering to bent wood
angle, the reference books gave no indication of the wood being bent, and
the pictures of the chairs were not fine enough to distinguish a grain
pattern or to be able to tell steel rods or wood dowels were used. The
article in the TI was to be looked at by someone with woodworking knowledge
before publication. Next time I'll just have my Laurel look over my
writings before sending them off. The particular reason I used steel rod
was: 1) my chairs are often barrowed by others to use. 2) if stood upon
I didn't the chair to fail and myself ending up with a broken neck. 3) A
directors chair hasn't been able to take the abuse. Bill McNutt has been
kind enough to offer to put the finished chair pictures on a web server.
I'll be emailing him the pictures tomorrow.
Marke
From: ansteorra at eden.com (7/13/95)
To: ansteorra at eden.com
Subj: chairs
>Btw, me and my Lady are already talking about how to improve our
>enjoyment of the SCA and what to get next to help this out. Looks like
>period chairs/table (any hints?) and feast gear.
I have always wondered why more people didn;t keep 3-legged stools around
their camp, they are period and raily easy to make/cheap to buy. No back
support and too easy to fall off of when your drunk but everything has a
drawback.
>Phelim Uhtred Gervas
-michael
From: ansteorra at eden.com (7/13/95)
To: ansteorra at eden.com
RE>Furniture
edited...
>Btw, me and my Lady are already talking about how to improve our
>enjoyment of the SCA and what to get next to help this out. Looks like
>period chairs/table (any hints?) and feast gear.
>
We found very nice folding chairs (wooden & stained) at Hobby Lobby for
around $25.00 They are actually quite comfortable and portable. They
have also added to the atmosphere of our encampments.
Gala Cunningham (a.k.a. lurker extraodinaire)
___
Donna Cunningham
University Duplicating Service
University of Texas at Austin
512/475-6731
From: ansteorra at eden.com (7/13/95)
To: ansteorra at eden.com
RE>Event Ideals (fighting)
Pug mentioned that the next thing they will aquire to help them play more authenticlly will be chairs and a table. If you are looking for late period, a folding director's chair with out the arms is fairly period looking. I suggest that you put a seat on it out of a tapestry
reinforced with canvas (so that it won't stretch out) If you keep the
arms and hence, the back, do the same, it is more comfortable that way
but not period looking. Throwing a cover over a chair does nothing to
make it look more period, unless perhaps it is a large, fur cloak. Then
it just looks like a cloak thrown into a chair. Just my two cents.
Clare
From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Not X Chairs
Date: 14 Jul 1996 03:45:16 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Bryan J. Maloney (bjm10 at cornell.edu) wrote:
: Anybody know how far back folding cloth and wood "director"-style chairs
: go? I think they go at least as far back as the 18th century, but any
: further?
I once had my hands on a (fairly thick) book detail the history of chairs
that showed a photograph of a "director's chair" that had belonged to
Napoleon. I'm not talking about a vague, stylistic resemblence, the
construction was identical to modern director's chairs. (Fancier
materials, though.) For anything further back, you'd have to define what
you mean by "director" _style_ chair. Similar enough that if you saw a
real one you'd say, "Hey, but that's a modern diretor's chair!"? In that
case, the Napoleonic one is the earliest I've seen. However the basic
X-folding shape is a slow but steady development from at least Classical
Rome. There are some very early medieval chairs that take the basic
X-stool shape and extend the back legs upward to form a back (i.e., the
seat cross-bars anchoring the fabric go across under your knees and behind
your seat, rather than parallel to your legs) which is very similar in
_concept_ to some beach-chair designs (except the beach chairs are always
made of aluminum and nylon webbing). It's a wonderful book -- one I'd buy
if I ever ran into in a store.
Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn
From: Heather Rose Jones <hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu>
To: Mark S. Harris
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 20:32:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Not X Chairs
> I've been looking for any books that show chairs back in the medieval
> times. Does this one cover medieval chairs? Do you remember the name of
> this book?
My recollection was slightly off -- the book wasn't about chairs in
general, but rather was specifically about the history of folding chairs.
The info is:
Wanscher, Ole. "Sella Curulis - The Folding Stool, an Ancient Symbol of
Dignity." Copenhagen: Rosenkilde and Bagger, 1980. ISBN 87-423-0337-0
Despite the Danish publisher, the book is entirely in English. It includes
lots of plates, both of depictions of chairs and of actual surviving
chairs themselves. If you have trouble finding it, try interlibrary loan
from the UC Berkeley library. The call number there is GT 450 W36 -- which
may or may not be helpful in the process.
Tangwystl
From: bjm10 at cornell.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Not X Chairs
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 11:41:38 -0400
Organization: Cornell University
In article <4s90r8$mit at thrush.sover.net>, celtic at sover.net (Stuart Joseph)
wrote:
> (Bryan J.
> >Maloney) writes:
> >>PS: Those two-piecer low "camp chairs" that a lot of folks sell date
> >back
> >>to a 1930s Boy Scout Jamboree...
> They may date back to the 30's but they have been accepted by a lot of
> re-enactor groups with very high authenticity standards, so I would
They are being phased out of these groups even as we speak...
From: dickeney at access1.digex.net (Dick Eney)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Not X Chairs
Date: 15 Jul 1996 12:46:35 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
In article <bjm10-1507961140330001 at potato.cit.cornell.edu>,
Bryan J. Maloney <bjm10 at cornell.edu> wrote:
>In article <4s6m2o$14o4 at uni.library.ucla.edu>,
>liversen at physiology.medsch.ucla.edu (Lori Iversen) wrote:
>
>> I can buy a folding canvas-seated director's chair on sale at Target for
>> less than $20. Can you do me better?
>
>Right! Now, how far do they go back? I was stating that they went AT
>LEAST as far back as the 18th century, as far as I knew. I was ASKING if
>anybody could document them FARTHER back, which I would consider to be a
>Really Neat Thing (TM).
Folding X chairs go back to Renaissance Italy, and 12th Century Germany
IIRC. However, they are not canvas seated and they do not have backs.
Technically they are stools, by modern standards. The seats are wooden
slats that pivot on metal rods. Similar-looking stools have been found as
far back as ancient Egypt, but they apparently do not fold, even though
they are made with all the bumps where they would be if they did fold.
Some of the Egyptian ones apparently do have leather or cloth seats.
(maybe an ancient folding original copied by a culture that didn't want to
fold them?) (BTW I am _not_ speaking of those three-legged stools!)
-- Tamar the Gypsy (sharing account dickeney at access.digex.net)
From: rlindber at kendaco.telebyte.com (R Lindberg / E Winnie)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Not X Chairs
Date: 15 Jul 1996 21:47:59 GMT
Organization: Telebyte NW
In article <bjm10-1507961140330001 at potato.cit.cornell.edu>, bjm10 at cornell.edu (Bryan J. Maloney) says:
>
>In article <4s6m2o$14o4 at uni.library.ucla.edu>,
>liversen at physiology.medsch.ucla.edu (Lori Iversen) wrote:
>
>> I can buy a folding canvas-seated director's chair on sale at Target for
>> less than $20. Can you do me better?
>
>Right! Now, how far do they go back? I was stating that they went AT
>LEAST as far back as the 18th century, as far as I knew. I was ASKING if
>anybody could document them FARTHER back, which I would consider to be a
>Really Neat Thing (TM).
I have documented cloth seat to the 1500's and wood seat to 2000 to
3000 BC. I'm certain cloth goes back further, but haven't seen any.
There is an X chair, with a back and arms, that the book (English oak
Furnichure (sp???)) states as being a folding/break down chair. I have
yet to figure our -how- it works. I will get intouch with the An Tir A7S
Champion, who owns this book, and see if I can get recalled, the correct
book title, chair name, and history.
Sargent Hroulag Nilsen
--
Ralph Lindberg N7BSN Ellen Winnie N7PYK e-mail <dragonsl at scn.org>
From: dpeters at panix.com (D. Peters)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Not X Chairs
Date: 15 Jul 1996 18:50:30 -0400
Organization: Panix
In article <4s6m2o$14o4 at uni.library.ucla.edu>,
Lori Iversen <liversen at physiology.medsch.ucla.edu> wrote:
>bjm10 at cornell.edu (Bryan J. Maloney) says:
>>
>>Anybody know how far back folding cloth and wood "director"-style chairs
>>go? I think they go at least as far back as the 18th century, but any
>>further?
>>
>>PS: Those two-piecer low "camp chairs" that a lot of folks sell date back
>>to a 1930s Boy Scout Jamboree...
>
>My dear Mr. Maloney,
>
>If you could supply us all with the name and address of someone
>-- anyone -- who could supply us all....
[snip!]
Since you asked....
The company that manufactured the "Italian Folding Chairs" with the
lions' heads at the ends of the arms (also known as "Savonarola Chairs")
has just ceased producing them. Similar versions of the
fifteenth-century folding (or non-) chair are available through the
Design Toscano catalogue, but are hand-carved and cost a kilobuck :-(
I *can*, however, cite some print sources with plans and directions for
building period seating:
"Italian Savonarola Occasional Chair Copied from 15th Century Museum Piece."
_Workbench_ magazine, September-October 1985. p. 118-119. The 12-curved
legged chair that older Scadians got at Pier I twelve or so years ago....
"A Period Chair", by William of the Shire (sic). Originally in TI #40,
Fall A.S. X, reprinted in TI #78, Spring 1986. p. 21. Less complicated than
the
above, but appears to produce a chair more closely resembling earlier
medieval chairs.
"A Simple Gothic Bench," by Master Dafydd ap Gwystyl (sic), in _The Oak_
(the annual A & S newsletter of the Kingdom of Atlantia), #6 (1993) p. 3-9
(with errata in #7, p. 28)
I haven't tried any of these yet, because I lack woodworking skill, but
woodworkers who have looked at them say that they look do-able.
>I can buy a folding canvas-seated director's chair on sale at Target for
>less than $20. Can you do me better?
Alas, I can't, but I can't help but wonder: the Rev. War and Civ War
groups buy their tents, etc. rather than make them because there are
suppliers that mass-produce the items at a reasonable price. What if
someone approached a cabinetmaker and said, "If you can find a way to
produce this medieval chair for under <grabbing a figure out of thin air>
$100.00, I know a couple hundred people who would buy one (or two).
Whaddaya say?"
Might be worth trying....
Cheers,
D.Peters
From: gray at ibis.cs.umass.edu (Lyle Gray)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Not X Chairs
Date: 16 Jul 1996 00:28:11 GMT
Organization: CMPSCI Department, UMass Amherst
Dick Eney (dickeney at access1.digex.net) wrote:
: Folding X chairs go back to Renaissance Italy, and 12th Century Germany
: IIRC. However, they are not canvas seated and they do not have backs.
There's one at the Metropolitan Museum of Art with a back...
------------------------------------------------------ NON ANIMAM CONTINE
Lyle H. Gray Internet (personal): gray at cs.umass.edu
Phone: (860) 728-6777, FAX: (860) 247-0249
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Kel Rekuta <krekuta at tor.hookup.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Not X Chairs
Date: 16 Jul 1996 01:34:14 GMT
Organization: HookUp Communication Corporation, Oakville, Ontario, CANADA
> Anybody know how far back folding cloth and wood "director"-style chairs
> go? I think they go at least as far back as the 18th century, but any
> further?
>
> PS: Those two-piecer low "camp chairs" that a lot of folks sell date back
> to a 1930s Boy Scout Jamboree...
There seems to be documentation for Napoleonic camp chairs very like our
"directors" chairs: see Ole Wanscher, Sela Curulis: The Folding Stool.
If you email, I'll dig out my photocopies for reference #'s.
The "x" chair really was the thing for a *loonng* time. There were all
kinds of variants to them. The folding stool was good enough for kings
and princes of the church. I believe your problem with them is one of two
things. Most of them don't have a back rest substantial enough to
recline against like we are accustomed to in modern chairs.
The other thing that may be the problem is you have made one *opulent*
enough! Velvet stuffed with down, fine soft leather on the arms,
gilt and carving on the legs and feet.... oooh!
You will be the envy of the gang if you laze about at events on such
movables!
Ceallach
From: pat at lalaw.lib.CA.US (Pat Lammerts)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: x-chairs
Date: 15 Jul 1996 23:49:57 -0400
Organization: The Internet
Many years ago, at one of the Estrella Wars, I purchased
a rather period-looking x chair from a merchant from
Tennessee. He said that he was using a design from
a local Laurel master. It really is a wonderful design.
It is all wood, with wooden slats for the seat that pivot
on metal rods, as was mentioned in an earlier post by
Tamar the Gypsy. It is very comfortable and it folds
relatively flat. Unfortunately, I don't remember the
merchant or the Laurel who designed the chair. The
business card disappeared during the drive back from
Estrella. I have been trying for years to find out
the name of the merchant and/or the Laurel, because I
have wanted to purchase more of these wonderful chairs.
The one that I bought cost about $50.00. Not cheap,
but worth the price.
The chair looks something likes this:
_____
O____/ \____O
\_____________/ <- chair back that is removable
\ /
\ /
\=======/<- seat, slats on pivoting metal rods
\ /
\ /
\ /
O
/ \
/ \
/ \
/ \
/ \
O O <- octagonal dowels
If anyone knows the merchant or the Laurel who designed the
chair and where I can contact either, I will be eternally
grateful for the information.
Yours,
Huette
P.s. Yaakov, this chair has back support and can easily fit into
your Saturn.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Mistress Huette Aliza von und zu Ahrens und Mechthildberg +
+ Ars non gratia artis, sed gratia pecuniae +
+ Kingdom of Caid +
+ Barony of the Angels, Canton of the Canyons +
+ (pat at lalaw.lib.ca.us) +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: x-chairs
Date: 17 Jul 1996 18:51:02 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Pat Lammerts (pat at lalaw.lib.CA.US) wrote:
: Many years ago, at one of the Estrella Wars, I purchased
: a rather period-looking x chair from a merchant from
...
: The chair looks something likes this:
: _____
: O____/ \____O
: \_____________/ <- chair back that is removable
: \ /
: \ /
: \=======/<- seat, slats on pivoting metal rods
: \ /
: \ /
: \ /
: O
: / \
: / \
: / \
: / \
: / \
: O O <- octagonal dowels
Except for the back, the design looks to be taken from a 16th century
Swiss chair (currently in the Zurich Landesmuseum). It would be quite a
simple design to make, and more sparing of wood (and labor) than those
with curved legs. (Backs of this general appearance can be found on other
extant folding chairs of this period.)
Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn
From: powers at skink.cis.ohio-state.edu (william thomas powers)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: x-chairs
Date: 17 Jul 1996 17:46:06 -0400
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science
there is another catagory of possible "lawn" chairs (would not a good hempen
canvas support much more weight than "lawn"?) I would like to call this
not an X chair but a "double U" chair. The examples I have are made from
wrought iron and are basically shapped like
O O
| |
| |
| |
|=====================| <= seat
| |
\ /
\________X________/
________X________
/ \
/ \
| |
| |
| |
| |
__| |__
The seat is a piece of canvas or leather and is slung from two rods that
go from front to back partially up the top section.
each top vertical piece makes a sharp curve and then runs parallel with the
other one crossing over at the __X__ to form the opposite lower piece.
There is a good example in one of Oppi Untrachts books "Metalworking
techniques for Craftsmen" (?) and another in the Sotheby's Catalogue
"European Works of Art, Arms and Armour, Furniture and Tapestries",
New York, Jan 13 & 15 1992.
This would not fold up quite as flat as an X chair; but it would be a simple
task to put a back on it like a director's chair.
I started to forge one once but used too thin a stock. I think I may
dig out the full scale drawing I did and go buy some iron......and try
it again.
wilelm the smith
From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Not X Chairs
Date: 16 Jul 1996 05:39:17 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
In the course of this thread, I made reference to a book I had once seen
on the history of chairs (my source for the Napoleonic camp chair
reference). I was in error -- it is not a general history of chairs but
specifically a history of folding chairs. Given the high volume on this
thread, the details would probably be in interest here.
Wanscher, Ole. "Sella Curulis: the Folding Stool, an Ancient Symbol of
Dignity." Copenhagen: Rosenkilde and Bagger, 1980. ISBN 87-423-0337-0
The book is in English, runs 350 pages, and contains probably close to 200
plates both of artistic depictions of folding chairs and of actual
surviving chairs -- many of them pre-1600. There are also extensive scale
drawings and schematics, by which many of the artifacts could be
reconstructed by those with intermediate-level skills. There is material
here for a lot of fun projects!
I don't know how generally available the book is in libraries, but the UC
Berkeley library definitely has a copy.
Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn
From: powers at skink.cis.ohio-state.edu (william thomas powers)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Not X Chairs
Date: 18 Jul 1996 15:05:06 -0400
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science
wilelm here: having been asked about the sorces I was using for my post
on chairs---always a compliment!!!-- I was unfortunate in that my
message in return seemed to be mis-laid. Being that this is germane
I have taken the liberty of posting the contents here:
Re: my sources for the metal double U chairs
> Is this medieval? It is not clear from your sources if they deal
> only with medieval items.
Milord; I am in haste but wanted to provide more information to you:
_Metal Techniques for Craftsmen_, Oppi Untracht, isbn 0-385-03027-4
page 274: "X-Chair, wrought iron with leather seat sling and crystal
hand grips, French, c. 1400, Philadelphia Museum of Art"
Auction Catalogue, Sotheby's, "European Works of Art, Arms and Armour,
Tapestries and Furniture", New York January 13 & 15 1992
Lot 455: "A Pair of Italian Brass and Wrought-Iron Curule Form Stools,
17th Century, with twisted wrought iron frames, partly chased with scale
patterns the four corners set with turned brass finials, with later
leather seats, $2000 - 3000."
Note the 17th century examples are *much* plainer than the 1400 one,
which is of such well developed design as to indicate that it is
not the first one ever made; but exists somewhere along a design
timeline.
So I would loosely allocate this form as Pre 1400 through at least the
16th century.
In Addition: _Encyclopedia of Spanish Period Furniture Designs_, Jose'
Claret Rubira, isbn 0-8069-7902-X , has 14 designs for chairs from the
14th to the end of the 16th centuries and two designs for benches with
backs!, as well. These are all in wood. (fairly good line drawings
with "close ups" of some of the more ornate pieces. It also has
chests, tables, etc and covers the 14th through the 19th centuries.)
wilelm the smith "Better living through Medievalism" TM
From: Michael McKay <mckay_michael at tandem.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Not X Chairs
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 14:15:22 +0000
Organization: Atalla, A Tandem Company
Took a class at 3YC on chairs (but I forget the instructor's
name). He had numerous examples of X chairs throughout SCA
period. X chairs were used by Roman Officers, and had become
something of a symbol of authority long after Rome lost it's
glory. Although the Roman models did fold, many of the period
versions do not fold. The Roman connection helps explain why X
chairs are so extensivly seen throughout period.
Seaan McAy Caer Darth; Darkwood; Mists; West (Santa Cruz, CA)
From: bwc at proaxis.com (Doug Brunner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Medieval Chairs and other problems
Date: 17 Jul 1996 04:03:42 GMT
Organization: Your Organization
I saw this and had to step in, sorry. I'm a woodworker, in An Tir. I
make a heavy duty chair that will fit into most trunks. I originally built
them for the heavies, out here. Some of them are pretty heavy. :) Anyway, the
chairs I make will easily support 350 lbs, with excellent back support.
They're quite easy to make, if you have the tools. As far as the authenticity
part, this design has been around for about 2700 years. The style has been
seen on ancient urns, from the meditteranian(sp??!! sorry). Basic design is
two boards. Both are 4ft long 2X12's. One is flat, with a slot. The other is
cut down to something that looks like an oar. The second one fits through the
first. The "Blade" of the oar, is the actual seat. The plank is the back. I
reinforce the boards with 1/4X1 oak strips, inlaid into the boards. This
retards splitting and checking by the boards. PLEASE!!!, if you make these,
use Kiln Dried Fir, or something better. Industrial 2X12 boards are often
Hemlock. They split very easily and are normally sold green. As they dry, they
love to split. If you want the chair to last, and not end up on your butt, be
a bit careful.
If anyone wants more information, for either buying or building your
own, contact me at: bwc at proaxis.com We're out of Lebanon, Or.
From: Doug Brunner <bwc at proaxis.com>
To: Mark S. Harris
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 19:15:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Medieval Chairs and other problems
First of all, my deepest apologies for not getting back to you, sooner.
We've been doing back-to-back-to-back shows and time is a very precious
commodity. And, Shrewsbury Ren Faire is coming up. I'm not only a Merchant,
I'm the Site Construction Manager. So, again, time is very limitted.
However, the references I saw were in the "ARTS/Furniture/History" section
of the Oregon State Library. It's in Corvallis, Oregon. It's about a 35
minute drive, from here. I also ran across the chairs on a pre-christian
Greek Urn. I don't remember the date of the piece, or the title. It depicted
some great battle and one of the heroes was sitting on a chair like I make.
As I get time, (HaHa*sigh) I will look it up. I'll keep your E-Mail address
in my files. If you don't hear from me by the first of October, I'm either
dead from exhaustion, or I've completely forgotten about it. Either way,
ring my bells out here and remind me.
Doug(Bruno)Brunner
The Termite of Shrewsbury
From: pat at lalaw.lib.CA.US (Pat Lammerts)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: X Chairs, 4 books on the subject
Date: 18 Jul 1996 22:17:42 -0400
Organization: The Internet
Here are the particulars of the book that Tangwystyl has mentioned:
Wanscher, Ole.
Sella curulis : the folding stool : an ancient symbol of dignity
/ by Ole Wanscher. -- Copenhagen : Rosenkilde and Bagger, c1980.
350 p. : ill. ; 24 cm.
ISBN 8742303370
It is available at these libraries:
Univ. of California, Santa Barbara
Yale Univ.
National Gallery of Art, Washington, DC
Winterthur Museum, Delaware
Univ. of Florida
Emory Univ., Georgia
Univ. of Iowa
Art Museum of Chicago
Harvard Univ.
Univ. of Michigan
Univ. of Minnesota
Institute for Advanced Study/Historical Studies, New Jersey
Princeton Univ.
State Univ. of New York, Binghamton
Columbia Univ.
Cornell Univ.
Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York
New York Public Library
Pierpont Morgan Library, New York
New York Univ.
Cleveland Museum of Art
Brown Univ., Rhode Island
This same author also wrote this book:
Wanscher, Ole.
The art of furniture; 5000 years of furniture and interiors.
Translated from the Danish by David Hohnen. New York, Reinhold
Pub. Corp. [1967, c1966]
419 p. illus. (part col.) 27 cm.
Also published in England by Allen and Unwin.
This is available in these libraries:
Univ. of Iowa
Univ. of California, Santa Barbara
Univ. of California, Berkeley
Univ. of California, Davis
Contra Costa Community College, California
California State Library
Getty Center, Los Angeles, California
Santa Clara Public Library, California
Stanford Univ. California
National Gallery of Art, Washington, DC
Florida State Univ.
Univ. of Florida
Art Inst. of Chicago
Evanston Public Library, Illinois
Boston Museum of Fine Arts
Univ. of Michigan
Univ. of Minnesota
St. Louis Art Museum
Brooklyn Museum, NY
State Univ. of NY, Buffalo
SUNY, Stony Brook
Columbia Univ.
Cornell Univ.
Fashion Inst. of Technology, NY
Metropolitan Museum of Art, NY
New York Public Library
Syracuse Univ., NY
National Library of Canada
Pennsylvania State Univ.
Temple Univ. Pennsylvania
Univ. of Pennsylvania
Univ. of Tennessee
Brigham Young Univ., Utah
Here is another book of interest:
Schwartz, Marvin D.
Please be seated; the evolution of the chair, 2000 BC-2000AD
[by] Marvin D. Schwartz. [New York] American Federation of Arts
[1968]
61 p. illus. 26 cm.
This is available at these libraries:
Univ. of Minnesota
Getty Center, Los Angeles, CA
National Gallery of Art, Washington, DC
Univ. of Florida
Univ. of Iowa
Art Institute of Chicago
SUNY,Buffalo
SUNY, Stony Brook
Columbia Univ.
Cornell Univ.
Brooklyn Museum
Fashion Inst. of Technology, NY
Metropolitan Museum of Art, NY
Univ. of Rochester, NY
Syracuse Univ. NY
New York Univ.
Pennsylvania State Univ.
Brigham Young Univ. Utah
And this thesis:
McCarthy, Jane A., 1922-
A history of the folding chair (2600 B.C. - 1900 A.D.) related
to user lifestyles and needs / by Jane A. McCarthy. -- [Ithaca, N. Y.]
: McCarthy, 1975.
x, 128 leaves : ill. ; 28 cm.
Available only at:
Cornell Univ.
Huette
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Mistress Huette Aliza von und zu Ahrens und Mechthildberg +
+ Ars non gratia artis, sed gratia pecuniae +
+ Kingdom of Caid +
+ Barony of the Angels, Canton of the Canyons +
+ (pat at lalaw.lib.ca.us) +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: Diana Dills <ddills at u.washington.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: X Chairs ARE Period
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 21:41:10 -0700
Organization: University of Washington
I have seen a woodcut, or etching...not sure of the period technique,
maybe it was a line drawing--dating from the 13th c of a night putting on
his armor, seated on an X campstool. It is for all intents and purposes
identical to the 1930's vintage Boy Scout camp stool. I was able to find
4 of them at Wal Mart for $5.99 each. Of course, I still have my tourney
chests for seating, too...
DIANA DILLS
*UWPD*
ddills at u.washington.edu
From: habura at matisse.its.rpi.edu (Andrea Marie Habura)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Not X Chairs
Date: 17 Jul 1996 00:57:12 GMT
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
On dealing with benches: The Merode Altarpiece (c. 1425) shows a
woman seated on the floor beside a bench, using it as a support
while she reads. (It's the Virgin Mary, and it's supposed to
represent the Annunciation; you can tell by the vase of lilies on
the table beside her. But the bench is _way_ Gothic.)
The bench looks much like a straight-backed church pew. Judging from
the scale of the woman leaning against it, and accounding for the
less-than-perfect perspective drawing, it's about 5' long, has a
low latticework back about 1' high, side armrests the same height,
a seat about 18" deep, and a footrest about 18" from the edge of
the seat. Here's an ASCII sketch, side view:
============
| |
| |
| |
++++++++++++ <--seat level
| |
| |
| |
| |
===| |
As I mentioned, the woman is not seated on the bench per se. She seems
to be seated on the footrest, based on the location and angle of her
left knee, and she's leaning against the seat, with her left forearm
resting on the seat at a right angle to the back. Her left elbow
rests against a large (approx 2' on a side) square pillow that's propped
against the back of the bench.
Now, me, I have scoliosis. If I tried to sit this way for more
than twenty minutes, it would be Tylenol Time. However, if I
were to settle that nice big pillow into the small of my back and actually
sit on that bench rather than try to look picturesque, I could probably
hold out for a while; footrests are a Good Thing, and sadly underprovided
in modern seating.
The bench is pegged together, and looks to be made out of what could
be broken down into five flat pieces (two armrests/legs, seat, back,
and footrest). A shorter bench--four feet? should be fittable into
any car you could camp from.
An aside, I believe to Allesaundre: I don't think it's "cruel"
to suggest one way of using a bench as a backrest, and I'm one of
the people you were defending. As I've mentioned, my back problem
would keep me from using a simple bench, even as a backrest, but
that just means that I'd have to scout out another Period solution,
if possible. And I think I may have done just that.
I guess I perceive this as being no more "cruel" than suggesting
sekanjabin syrup as a summer drink to an audience that may include
diabetics. The appropriate answer is "I'm sorry, I can't use that solution
because of health reasons. Do you have any other suggestions?"
Alison MacDermot
*Ex Ungue Leonem*
From: powers at skink.cis.ohio-state.edu (william thomas powers)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Not X Chairs
Date: 21 Jul 1996 17:20:50 -0400
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science
This looks like a good thread to mention another "style" of bench, those with
backs that can be flipped to change the "front" of the bench to be the "back"
and vice versa.
These are often shown near a fireplace so that when you have toasted one side
of yourself you can flip the back around and do the other!
A simple example, (the back is just an octagonal bar mounted on short iron
straps that pivot around a peg(?)) is shown in "St. Barbara Reading", by the
Master of Fle'malle, dated 1438 and currently in the Prado This painting
also shows a small multiple X stool being used as an end table.
wilelm the smith
From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Portable period chair
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:58:54 GMT
I've just webbed an article written for the next edition of the
Miscellany; it's at:
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Medieval/Articles/chair_article/A%20Period%
20Chair.htm
It describes a design for a chair that is (late) period, not too hard to
make, and can be very portable. It is essentially a three legged stool
with the back leg extended up to provide a back support.
Comments welcome.
--
David/Cariadoc
www.daviddfriedman.com
From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Portable period chair
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 06:32:35 GMT
Ted Eisenstein <alban at socket.net> wrote:
> > It describes a design for a chair that is (late) period, not too hard to
> > make, and can be very portable. It is essentially a three legged stool
> > with the back leg extended up to provide a back support.
> . . . speaking of chairs with back support. . . are there any that are
> a) collapsible and otherwise suitable for schlepping around in a truck,
> and b) suitable for Pennsic (i.e., reasonably period-looking), and,
> most importantly c) suitable for someone with a really bad back because
> of arthritis? (support would be nice. comfort would be nice.)
>
> Alban
The one I describe comes apart into small pieces, so is very
transportable. It's period looking--indeed period, although I don't
guarantee all the details.
As for the third requirement, I haven't used it enough to judge. The
back support is a curved piece of wood attached to the extension of the
third leg.
For other alternatives, I have a "conjecturally authentic" design for a
much more substantial chair--i.e. one that uses period technology and
materials but isn't based on any period original. It also takes apart,
but weighs several times as much. If built to your dimensions it should
be pretty comfortable. It will be in the next Miscellany, as an addition
to the article on conjecturally authentic furniture.
What I have used at Pennsic in recent years is a chair made by a
woodworker named Hal, whose location is near the food court. I believe
the firm name is "Jactance." It's comfortable and period, but only
semi-portable--it folds, but not flat.
--
David/Cariadoc
www.daviddfriedman.com
From: tom at his.com (Tom Rettie)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Portable period chair
Date: 18 Jul 2003 13:27:19 -0700
David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com> wrote
> The one I describe comes apart into small pieces, so is very
> transportable. It's period looking--indeed period, although I don't
> guarantee all the details.
>
> As for the third requirement, I haven't used it enough to judge. The
> back support is a curved piece of wood attached to the extension of the
> third leg.
Your Grace,
I've made three of these backstools now, and I'm very happy with them
in terms of back support. The important part is to fit them to your
particular needs. I've found three variations in period: the most
common has a bowed backrest supported by two stuts, less commonly the
backrest is turned, and in one example the backpost ends in a ball
fineal with no crosspiece at all. I've found examples as early as the
15th century, well into the 17th, predominantly Dutch/Flemish.
Some background, notes, and examples:
http://www.his.com/~tom/sca/turnedstools.html
http://www.his.com/~tom/sca/projects/current.html
(this last one needs to be updated; there is a picture of the
completed project here: http://www.his.com/~tom/Images/strip1.jpg
http://www.his.com/~tom/sca/projects/backstool1.html
http://www.his.com/~tom/sca/projects/backstool2.html
Your servant,
Findlaech mac Alasdair, OL
Atlantia
From: tom at his.com (Tom Rettie)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Portable period chair
Date: 19 Jul 2003 16:01:32 -0700
David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com> wrote
> Many thanks for the information.
>
> The picture I was working from had the two struts, although I didn't put
> them in mine, since it seemed solid enough without them.
>
> How wide is the variation in how high the backrest is? I made mine
> pretty low to allow me to lean back more.
Most commonly they are illustrated with the backrest about the height
of the shoulder blades. However, there is at least one 17th century
illustration that shows a backrest much shorter, around the small of
the back.
My first effort had a backrest with no struts, and it was glued in
place. What I found with later efforts was that with the struts
close-fitting, everything stayed firmly in place without glue. That's
one of the great things about tripod furniture: being a little off in
the angles creates enough internal tension that glue isn't really
necessary.
Fin
www.his.com/~tom/index.html
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 19:24:01 -0500
From: rmhowe <mmagnusm at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: [SCA-AS] talking about Laurels
To: Arts and Sciences in the SCA <artssciences at lists.gallowglass.org>
Haraldr Bassi (arts) wrote:
> On Mon, January 10, 2005 16:30, Corwyn Ravenwing & Carowyn Silveroak
> said:
>> So my answer will be that it's te details that are most important. The
>> hat, the pitcher, the table, the chair - the little bits. I may not like
>> the Viking slab chairs, but they're better than the modern nylon folding
>> chairs, even though those things are just so darned convenient...it's
>> hard!!!
> I agree that wood is always preferred over nylon (or other glaring plastic
> alternatives) but if by 'viking slab chairs' you are referring to the seat
> made from two 3-4' long pieces of 2x10, can we excise the term 'viking
> slab chairs' and instead refer to it as a boyscout jamboree chair or some
> other name as there is no viking relationship that we have ever been able
> to find. The earliest we have found so far is circa 1970s at Boy Scout
> camps.
The primary advantages to these things is they are great for the
skill impaired novice woodworkers and if you tear one up sitting upon
it in armor - well so what? :) Fighers seem to like resting in them.
If you are drunk and fall over sideways in one you will end up
in a convenient fetal position most likely and be unharmed.
Pennsic nights are right cold however. They would make great
emergency firewood. :)
It would be hilarious to watch someone try to sit them at
High Table and eat. One certainly wouldn't want them anywhere
else in a crowded feast hall.
But you are very correct in your statement about them.
There is no documentation for anything like this I have ever
seen and I have a tremendous amount of furniture history books
and magazines devoted to such. I've done carpentry and woodwork
for pay since the mid 1960s and did build over a thousand
pieces of much more complex furniture. Easily over 10,000
mortises cut. These things can be made with the simplest of
tools. Ordinary handsaws, a hammer and a chisel.
Now the kubbesthuls that are known from Scandinavian countries
which are made by inverting and hollowing out the base of a
large tree trunk actually were made in ancient Italy and the
remains of a highly inlaid one were reconstructed from about
20,000 pieces found in an Etruscan tomb. In other words very
much pre-Roman.
The Romans left many furniture illustrations in carvings
including wicker work chairs. I could be wrong but I think
perhaps this may have died out in the medieval era, or they
were of such low esteem that they were never preserved or
recorded. The things I don't care for about them is
the creaking and smell of the wicker - which I suppose is
the scent of the reeding deteriorating. My mother had a
bunch of these things early on.
Magnus
> The vikings had lots of benches, boxes that also served as seating,
> stools and chairs. Yeah, real chairs and seating... go figure.
> Haraldr
From: Coblaith Mhuimhneach <Coblaith at sbcglobal.net>
Date: September 3, 2006 3:02:05 PM CDT
To: Barony of Bryn Gwlad <bryn-gwlad at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Bryn-gwlad] Camp Gear
Barnet wrote:
> . . .I am not a huge fan of director chairs (well nylon chairs in
> general) covered or uncovered and was wondering about alterantives.
> Some that is not too exspensive, looks well not like a nylon chair,
> but is also fairly portable as I only have so much room in the car.
Stephen Francis Wiley has webbed directions for the replication of "The
Lund Viking Stool"
<http://www.angelfire.com/wy/svenskildbiter/Viking/vikstool.html>;.
One of Dragonwing's monthly columns is about a 16th-century break-down
stool <http://midtown.net/dragonwing/col0003.htm>;.
Master Charles Oakley's site <http://www.medievalwood.org/charles/>;
includes instructions for a coffer chair (e.g., "a period director's
chair"), a 16th-century German fauldstool, a 16th-century folding
chair, and "the Peacock chair".
Cariadoc offers instructions for "A Period Folding Chair"
<http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Medieval/Articles/folding_chair.html>;
from the 15th century, similar to the 16th-century folding chair above.
Thirteenthcentury.com has photos of and a text description of the
building of a fauldstool
<http://www.thirteenthcentury.com/pages/fauldstool01.html>; based on
13th-century illustrations and similar to the German fauldstool above.
"A 15th Century Chair You Can Build"
<http://www.currentmiddleages.org/tents/chair115ct.pdf>; gives
instructions based on a Savonarola chair, similar in profile to the
"peacock chair" above.
"A Viking Box Chair"
<http://www.currentmiddleages.org/tents/chair3vkbox.pdf>; describes a
chair from the Oseberg ship burial and gives instructions for a
reconstruction, with some ideas on how it might be adapted to fold up.
House Greydragon's library includes "A Gothic Break-Down Chair"
<http://www.greydragon.org/furniture/chairs/index.html>;, made to
resemble a medieval box chair when assembled.
House Barra offers a simpler break-down chair with a similar profile
<http://housebarra.com/projects/talschair/>;.
Uilliam mac Ailéne mhic Seamuis has instructions for a folding version
of the box chair <http://members.shaw.ca/uilliam/chair.htm>;.
The Blood and Sawdust Homepage includes instructions for a knock-down
panel chest <http://www.his.com/~tom/sca/projects/hutch.html>; that
could easily be adapted to make a period-looking box chair without
wedges, "tabs", or hinges showing on the outside.
FYI, in case you just want something you can buy off the rack: You can
sometimes find wooden folding chairs similar to those mentioned on the
first two sites for sale at Target, Bed Bath and Beyond, or other
places that carry patio furniture or "party" furniture.
Coblaith Mhuimhneach
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:27:52 -0400
From: Saint Phlip <phlip at 99main.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pensic Mobility Options
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
We just have the ones we built from the original, but there are
several designs floating around. Here's one:
http://www.housebarra.com/projects/talschair/
On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 8:10 AM, Judith Epstein<judith at ipstenu.org> wrote:
On Aug 13, 2009, at 7:07 AM, Saint Phlip wrote:
<<< and one of what we call "Tzukka chairs" after the guy who gave usthe
original to make copies of. They're a plywood, tabbed construction that tear
down flat for storage. We're going to build some more, I think, with the
details a bit more accurate and stable. >>>
Are there written plans? I can't be the only one who would love to see
these, and/or buy one eventually.
Judith / no SCA name yet
--
Saint Phlip
Date: November 10, 2009 6:33:32 AM CST
To: gleannabhann at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Collapsible wooden chairs
Posted by: "Judith Epstein" judith at ipstenu.org ipstenit
Date: Mon Nov 9, 2009 12:00 pm ((PST))
On 9 Nov 2009, at 1:53 PM, Lisa Myers wrote:
<<< Kory and I are wanting to make some of the nice collapsible wooden
chairs before Christmas Revel or at least Winter Wonders. Does
anyone know where I can find a pattern to these online?
Thanks!
Juliana >>>
Scroll down to Chairs. The Stargazer chairs aren't period in the
least, but they're collapsible, and easy to make (or so I hear) if you
have a bare minimum of tools and space.
http://www.currentmiddleages.org/tents/furniture.htm
There are also a good many other plans here which I am assured are
easy, though I have neither space nor tools to find out for myself
just how accurate the word "easy" is.
Judith / no SCA name yet
Master Albrecht Waldfurster's Egg
Middle Kingdom, Midlands, Ayreton, Tree-Girt-Sea (Chicago, IL)
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2011 14:35:44 -0400
From: Garth Groff <ggg9y at virginia.edu>
To: isenfir at virginia.edu, atlantia at atlantia.sca.org, Stefan li Rous
<StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>
Subject: [MR] New Book on Period Chairs
Just received at the UVA Fine Arts Library: EARLY BRITISH CHAIRS AND
SEATS, 1500 TO 1600 by Tobias Jellinek (ISBN 9781851495818, our call #
NK2715 .J38 2009).
You furniture fiends are going to love this book. It
is a lavishly illustrated collection of period furniture, nearly all in
color, and nearly all properly dated, in 327 pages. There are chairs of
every sort, enclosed armchairs, folding Glastonbury chairs, upholstered
armchairs, Irish chairs, stools, benches, chairs with built-in boxes,
chairs that fold into tables, and the list goes on an on. Most of the
chairs are photographed in very good detail against a white background,
though others are tastefully arranged in replica period rooms with all
the panels and accessories. Sorry, no plans. I was particularly drawn to the Glastonbury chairs, since they are very much like modern folding
chairs, though certainly more ornate. As you might imagine, the actual
dated pieces from the 16th century represent only a small part of the
book, but many from later periods are little different. Of course the
book has the usual scholarly references and index. If you make
furniture, love furniture, or just love old domestic stuff, you will
love this book.
Lord Mungo Napier, Shire of Isenfir's Unofficial Librarian
(aka Garth Groff, Cataloger, UVA Library System)
To: SCA Newcomers list <scanewcomers at yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: chairs
Posted by: "D'vorah bint Da'ud" dvorah at consensualreality.net
Date: Wed May 29, 2013 8:22 pm ((PDT))
On 29 May 2013, at 8:10 PM, Stefan li Rous <stefanlirous at austin.rr.com> wrote:
<<< The so-called "Viking Chair", made out of two wide two inch planks, appears to be only as old as the '60s. the 1960s. >>>
Ahem. Not exactly. Its design is at least a millennium old, in Africa. Somewhere, I had the documentation -- a photograph from an extant chair QUITE old and well within period, if not before, from some museum somewhere -- but the link doesn't work anymore.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
D'vorah bint Da'ud
Protégé to Meister Albrecht Waldfurster, OP
Gyldenholt, Caid (Orange, CA)
dvorah at consensualreality.net
http://www.consensualreality.net/sca
To: SCA Newcomers list <scanewcomers at yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Viking/bog/"stargazer" chair
Posted by: "Honour Horne-Jaruk" jarukcomp at yahoo.com jarukcomp
Date: Wed Jun 5, 2013 3:51 pm ((PDT))
"D'vorah bint Da'ud" dvorah at consensualreality.net dvorah.batadar
asked:
2. Other than being made of thinner and stronger wood, do you know the differences in basic design? I'd be interested to learn more, because the one picture I did see was very similar to the bog chairs that are so common at SCA events, barring the styles of carving/decoration.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The fastest answer is to copy my side of a debate on the subject...
(From the SCAcommunity website "furniture" forum)
There are two really important arguments against the "stargazer" chair existing in our area and era: it doesn't do what they wanted a chair to do, and it is very hard to do with their equipment and resources. (Make that three: it's extremely wasteful of resources.)
First, they didn't mind sitting on things we won't sit on, starting with the ground. Children sit on the ground readily, because they're flexible. We sit on chairs because we aren't. _But relatively few of them were as stiff, or as heavy, or as well-dressed, as the vast majority of us are._ If you look at pictures from their time, one thing that shows up fast is how many people are standing in any scene compared to the number of people sitting. Chairs were rank-dependent, and very few were high enough in rank to have one. (benches were very common, however.) Because of the way a Stargazer chair works, it is useless for showing off rank and power- unless you count the rank and power of the dentist it makes you look like you're waiting for...
Second, it relies on the existence of standardized milled kiln-dried lumber- a four-way inaccuracy. To make a plank the size and shape of the parts of a Stargazer took the heartwood of a tree, expert woodmen, sawyers, adzemen, planers, carpenters and carvers, and a year. A simple folding stool or chair, of which they had at least twelve designs that I know of- including the easily and cheaply available director's chair- uses a fraction of those resources.
Anyone dextrous enough to make a stargazer could make a brocade or leather seat and back for a director's chair, or make a simple "viking" chest-stool. And they're more comfortable and weigh less!
(comment deleted)
(my reply)
Respected friend:
I should probably start by telling you that I have been, among other things, both a professional researcher and writer in the field of domestic material culture of our eras, and both a professional woodworker and a trained blacksmith. I've made this stuff, not as SCA approximations, but as duplicates of extant pieces and replicas of archaeological remains.
The Norse cultures didn't kiln-dry wood. First, it wouldn't have made any sense- the scouring winds of a Norse winter will dry _anything_. Second, they couldn't spare the fuel.
Present research indicates their boats were made with riven planks, not sawn wood. The keels, strakes, mast-feet, thwarts and other shaped parts, including both masts and spars, were made from wood pre-grown to the correct shape; again, not sawn into planks or anything very plank-like. Even the flat boards the chests were made out of were often froe-riven, then adzed and drawshaved, rather than sawn. The saw-blade must be a far, far higher quality of metal than any froe, adze, or drawshave in order to function, because even the froe is thick enough to resist the torque which warps and breaks saw-blades so easily. It made no sense to risk a saw on work that didn't require it.
Usually, A-frame "Viking" tents weren't actually tents in our sense of the word at all. They were sails, taken straight off the spars, and it was the spars- which were not sawn, not kiln dried, and not standardized- which held them up.
Another factor is that the Norselands had a dangerously small supply of strong, tough wood. Fir and pine splinter, birch breaks and rots, and most other trees grew stunted and twisted where they survived at all. During the Little Climactic Optimum that forged the Viking culture they had oaks, but never many- never enough that they could afford to waste the wood. A three-legged stool can be made from 1/7 the wood of a stargazer chair, and is far more comfortable for people who are working as they sit, which means everyone except perhaps the Jarl himself.
The other factors are less physical and more cultural. We hate benches. We hate sharing a seat with others. Non-Americans can peg families and lovers instantly in our gatherings by the sheer fact that they voluntarily sit close enough to touch each other, and are often amazed (or revolted) when they realize that _only_ families and lovers voluntarily do so. The people of Scandinavia don't have that phobia to any comparable extent. You can go into a Swedish tavern and see total strangers elbow-to-elbow any day of the year. That makes benches far more wood-efficient than any chair. It's probable that most Norsefolk never sat in a chair in their lives.
Also. almost no American would ever put up with the degree of crowding that was considered normal and reasonable in Viking-era Scandinavia. Every inch of house space had to be heated, with that same low-quality wood, hand-felled, hand-hewn, and hand-split with tools nowhere near as good as the precious precision implements of the shipbuilders. There was no space for the enormous footprint of a stargazer chair, which when in use takes up two to three times the space of an upright chair.
If a Norseman in Byzantium saw in a market a chair imported from Mali- the nearest spot, if I'm remembering correctly, where we have any evidence for the Stargazer design in period- he'd probably be amazed, but he probably would never even consider buying it. And if he did buy it, and then transported it more than a thousand miles to his homeland, he wouldn't copy it. The originals were tropical hardwoods so dense a 2cm. thick plank could support a muscular man. To copy that with his native softwoods (he'd never be dumb enough to use birch) he'd have to make the copy out of wood two to three times as thick- and he wouldn't. he'd make a stool, a bench, or a sitting-chest.
However, if he had somehow gotten and kept a chair from Mali, I would be very surprised if it _didn't_ end up as a decorative inset in something very, very valuable; it would, for example, look spectacular in the back of his Jarl's High Seat.
Well, that was long-winded... but I didn't want you to think I was just spouting off without having any evidence to back my claim. I'm not saying anyone, anywhere, should be dumping on people who have and use stargazers. I just would like us to stop telling people they're historically accurate for Vikings.
Yours in service to both the Societies of which I am a member-
(Friend) Honour Horne-Jaruk, R.S.F.
Alizaundre de Brebeuf, C.O.L. S.C.A.- AKA Una the wisewoman, or That Pict
<the end>
