Home Page

Stefan's Florilegium

wood-msg



This document is also available in: text or RTF formats.

wood-msg - 2/8/08

 

Different types of wood, period terms.

 

NOTE: See also the files: woodworking-msg, wood-bending-msg, wood-finishes-msg, tools-msg, tools-bib, polishing-msg, plane-art, pigments-msg.

 

************************************************************************

NOTICE -

 

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I  have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

 

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

 

I  have done  a limited amount  of  editing. Messages having to do  with separate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs  were removed to save space and remove clutter.

 

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make  no claims  as  to the accuracy  of  the information  given by the individual authors.

 

Please  respect the time  and  efforts of  those who have written  these messages. The  copyright status  of these messages  is  unclear at this time. If  information  is  published  from  these  messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

 

Thank you,

    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                          Stefan at florilegium.org

************************************************************************

 

From: corliss at hal.PHysics.wayne.EDU (David J. Corliss)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Oak and ash: a thorny question

Date: 2 Mar 1994 11:39:55 -0500

 

As an answer to the question: "What wood is used for spear shafts and axe

hafts" in the Viking Age quiz, it was written:

 

> Ash or Oak

 

Allow me to be more specific. We must recall that there are many differents

kinds of ashes and oaks, including cork (oak). The answer should be (my opinion

only): _Black_ Ash (now used for poles for pole vaulting, baseball bats, etc)

and _White_ Oak. All oaks have natural open spaces in the wood. Some are so

extensive that they leave no strength (see cork, above). In white oak, these

voids are filled with the glue that holds the wood fibers together to form the

tree. Thus, it is exceptionally strong.

 

While on the subject, white oak is a pain in the neck to work (by hand) and so

is not used except when neccessary.  Red oak is the variety most commonly found

in this country. In the middle ages, black oak was generally used. However,

the differences between black oak and red oak are so slight that lumber yards

make no distinction. (Red is New World; black was brought over by early

colonists.) I am informed that about 10% of all wood sold as "red oak" in the

U.S. is, in fact, black oak. Thus, red oak should be the oak of choice in our

recreations, except when another is specifically required in a particular

project.

 

                                                               Beorthwine

 

 

From: ayotte at milo.NOdak.EDU (Robert Arthur Ayotte)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Oak and ash: a thorny question

Date: 3 Mar 1994 13:54:46 -0500

Organization: North Dakota State University ACM, Fargo ND

 

In article <9403021634.AA10282 at hal.physics.wayne.edu> you wrote:

: As an answer to the question: "What wood is used for spear shafts and axe

: hafts" in the Viking Age quiz, it was written:

 

:  > Ash or Oak

 

: While on the subject, white oak is a pain in the neck to work (by hand) andso

: is not used except when neccessary.  

 

:             .......... This has been a public service message from the Middle

:  Kingdom College of Sciences...........

 

:                                                               Beorthwine

 

Howdy from Horace one time MoS/A for a smallish group in the Middle,

 

      First, white oak when worked green is fairly easy to work and

very flexable.  The nature of the wood tends to prevent it from

spliting or worping when it dries.  Examples are the white oak baskets

that are hand stripped from logs, and other tools.  It makes great handles

but when cured/dry it is a pain to work.

      A note on oak species. (Sorry the botanist creeping out) Many oaks

freely hybridize in the wild, so if you select your own woods in the forest

keep in mind leaf ID is not always valid without secondary confirmation, and

the wood may not be similar to others that appear to be from the same species.

Second, there are many oaks as Beorthwine pointed out, common names can often

be confusing ESP in different parts of the country or world.  In the south

I have often heard Blackjack oak refered to as black oak (shor scrubby trees)

that I doubt any would wish to make things from (as the wood I have seen tends

to misshape when drying.)

      Another thing, one can often buy handle blanks and save a lot of work.

White oak does resit breakage for throwing axes (but nothing lasts forever).

 

      Hope this bit of trivia is interesting.

 

Horace

 

 

From: corliss at hal.PHysics.wayne.EDU (David J. Corliss)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Oak and Ash

Date: 4 Mar 1994 13:42:47 -0500

Organization: The Internet

 

Hrolf has sent unto me this question. I felt many would like to hear the answer

and several could better it. He writes:

 

> Please, If I may ask,

 

> What wood types are common to the North of the Deciduos

> Tree Line (Norway, my home town.)

 

> Purpose: Shields

      Spear shafts

      hull & keel timbers

      Crossbows (not that I know of the Norse using them)

 

In general, the question you ask is: what wood has the highest

strength-to-weight ratio that I can get, so long as it has enough strength

to do the job?

 

Spruce has a very high strength-to-weight ratio: it is even higher than

oak and ash. This wood would have been used for both shields and ships.

For shields, the grain must be _vertical_ (that way, a downstroke caught by

the shield has a good chance of getting the weapon wedged into the wood). For

ships, the hull must be _clinker-built_ (boards overlapping at the edges,

as oppssed to carvel-built: edges of the board butted together) for added

strength.

 

Alas, spruce simply is not strong enough for spear shafts. Therefore, it must

be imported to areas that do not support deciduous trees.

 

Beorthwine

 

 

From: jjordan at yorick.umd.edu (James L. Jordan)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Thakka Feyrir, Vanaheim Vikings

Date: 13 Apr 1994 12:36:43 -0400

Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

 

Hvordan har du det?

 

As to period viking woods, Oak was a biggy for furniture and yew was used

mostly for bows and small things.  Oak was also used in building their ships,

if your planning that sort of project (maybe not).  In looking through my

'Vikings to Crusader' (very good stuff)  I found maple and beach were used

a lot for some furniture (chairs).  As to how closely related white oak is

to the european strain, I can't really say.  The maple is pretty close in

grain, color, etc.  

 

P.S. every chest I have read that bothered to give the wood type was oak.

Understandable if you're trying to build strong.

 

Ha det Bra!   Thorvald Hrafnsson, Atlantia

 

 

From: haslock at oleum.zso.dec.com (Nigel Haslock)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Thakka Feyrir, Vanaheim Vikings

Date: 14 Apr 1994 00:51:01 GMT

Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

 

Greetings from Fiacha,

 

According to reports, the Irish used lots of Yew for utensils. I recall

one reference to bog fig, fir trees that had been absorbed into the peat

bogs. I don't know of references to oak being used in a similar fashion.

 

Also, maple is unknown in England but Sycamore is similar and currently common.

I don't known long this has been so. Fruit woods, apple, pear, cherry were

available but I do not know of any references to their use. Kipling referred

to Elm as coffin wood but I don't know why.

 

Woods that bear investigation are birch, beech and box. I was told that box was

so named because it was considered ideal for making boxes out of. Beech is

still considered to be one of the best woods for household artefacts.

 

The best answer is still to study atefacts but I hope this helps a little.

 

      Fiacha

 

 

From: jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Thakka Feyrir, Vanaheim Vikings

Date: 18 Apr 94 11:03:06

Organization: STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, UK.

 

>Also, maple is unknown in England but Sycamore is similar and

>currently common.

 

I thought maple wasn't a European wood, but in "The Vikings in

England, and in their Danish Homeland" (which is the catalogue of an

exhibition that toured Denmark and England in 1981/82) there is an

entry on page 34 as follws:

 

" B42 The Ringerike style: the ornament on a maple wood walking stick

Lund, Sweden: from the settlement. KM

[59] 26:795]

The upper part is shaped like an animal head with a mane of curved

tendrils. the name 'Ulvkil' is inscribed in runes 29cm below the

ornament L. 98.5cm

Ringerike style animals are well built and thie anatomy is instantly

recognisable. they are however characterised, and almost dominated, by

attenuated curving tendrils, a feature which was the result of

influences from abroad - from the contemporary Winchester style in

England, for example (see K16) The style takes its name from

Ringerike, a region in Norway where it is strongly represented. Date

c975-1050."

 

Either someone mis-identified the wood, or they mistranslated another

tree name to maple, or there were maples around in Northern europe at

the time. maybe I'd better go hunt out my tree identifiers and see

what they say about maples.

 

The danish book with illustrations giving constructional details on

Viking age woodwork is:

Series title: Danmarkshistorien

Volume title: Vikingetiden

Author: Frank Birkebaek

ISBN 87-7324-485-6 (for one volume)

ISBN 87-7324-638.7 (for the whole series)

publishers: Forlagt Sesam a/s, Kobenhavn 1982

 

This is part of a series on Denmark's history, there are two volumes

on the viking age. teh one above is the one with cooking items such as

kneading troughs, buckets, bowls etc. and textile implements such as

looms, skein winders etc.

The other one of the pair is the one with furniture, and boxes, but i

left that at home, so I can't give you the details right now, but if

you can get at an inter-library loan database, you should be able to

find them both with that amount of information. don't be put off by

the fact that the books are in Danish, the line drawings are very

clear without the text.

 

The book on the finds from Dublin is

Title: Viking-Age Decorated Wood, a study of it's ornament and style

Author: James T. Lang

Publishers: Royal Irish Academy 1988

ISBN: 0 901714 68 2 hardback

      0 901714 69 0 paperback

 

As the title suggests this book is more concerned with decoration than

function, many items are fragmentary, but the sorts of things

represented are:

a small carved box & lid, a stopper, stylus, weavers swords, toggles,

an awl, knife handles, bowls, spoons, winders, a harness bow, a plane,

a writing tablet, a shuttle(?), a carding comb, toys, and fragments of

larger things like benches and chairs.

 

Well worth a look if you want to whittle designs onto your woodwork,

the carving is mostly quite simple but very effective. Once you've

copied a few pieces with the book in front of you it becomes quite

easy. Many everyday items were decorated with some sort of incised

ornament, so a bit of whittling does not necessarily mean that the

item belonged to a noble.

 

I have sat around camp fires whittling designs onto plain wooden

items, people never fail to be impressed by the results, though it is

really very simple to do if you have a good sharp knife. I would

imagine that many of the carved items in the book were produced in a

similar fashion: by someone whiling away a long evening. After a

while you start to find that all your wooden kit is covered in

doodles, to the extent that I now have carving even on my wooden tent

pegs and mallet, I'm running out of things to carve, and have taken to

sawing up planks to make candle holders to decorate. Be warned this

whittling can be addictive!

 

The book on the Gokstad ship is worth a look if you can track it down,

but it's over a hundred years old now so it can be hard to find. It

has detailed line drawings of the woodwork from the ship which

includes: candleholders, beds, a carved tent frame, bowls, shields, a

game board, a wooden needle, a cup, bowls and trenchers, and of course

the ship itself complete with oars and sail.

Title: The Viking-ship Discovered at Gokstad in Norway

Author: N. Nicolaysen

Publishers: Alb. Cammermeyer 1882

 

There are plenty of other books with woodwork in them, but these are

the ones that firts sprung to mind, let me know if you want any more

info.

 

Jennifer/Rannveik

 

Vanaheim Vikings.

 

 

From: jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Thakka Feyrir, Vanaheim Vikings

Date: 15 Apr 94 19:48:39

Organization: STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, UK.

 

> Kipling referred to Elm as coffin wood but I don't know why.

 

Elm is amazingly resistant to rotting, for this reason it is the

trasitional material used for wooden wheelbarrows which were often

left standing with wet loads, and were regularly left out in the rain.

Similarly hollow elm pipes were used for sewers in medieval london.

Some of the sewers were still in use within living memory and hadn't

rotted despite centuries under their odious load. I would imagine that

if elm were used in a coffin it would be for it's proof against

rotting.

 

I believe Elm was used in the timbers of the tent buried with the

Oseberg ship (8th century). The ships tents could be pitched on the

ship or on land, so they probably got wet a lot, and I daresay that

was the reason for choosing elm.

 

Fruitwood is very hard even when green, so I don't think it was much

used in everyday woodwork, though I'm ready to be corrected if anyone

knows better. Early medieval woodworking was mostly done with green

wood, that's why English Tudor buildings are all so crooked: as the

wood dried it tended to move a bit. In Germant they used pre-seasoned

pine for their buildings, and they came out much straighter, they also

got more decorated buildings because the pine was so much easier to

work than even green oak.

 

I agree that oak was the prefered wood for most tasks, England used to

be covered in Oak woodland, there's not a lot left now. But other

woods had particular uses. e.g. In the traditional windsor chairs

different woods were employed for each part of the chair, I can't

recall which were used where right now, but I can go check it out.

 

Jennifer/Rannveik

 

Vanaheim vikings

--

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: keegan at netcom.com (Tim Bray/C. Keegan)

Subject: Re: Thakka Feyrir, Vanaheim Vikings

Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

Date: Wed, 20 Apr 1994 15:37:51 GMT

 

Nigel Haslock (haslock at oleum.zso.dec.com) wrote:

 

<stuff deleted>

 

: Also, maple is unknown in England but Sycamore is similar and currently common.

: I don't known long this has been so. Fruit woods, apple, pear, cherry were

: available but I do not know of any references to their use. Kipling referred

: to Elm as coffin wood but I don't know why.

 

What is called sycamore in America is a different tree in Europe.  

European sycamore is called Plane tree.

 

Limewood was frequently used for applications that required strength and

toughness, especially in thin pieces - like small boxes, coffers,

carvings (especially religious), etc.  Numerous examples exist in museums.

 

Elm is extremely tough and, as Rannveigr points out, water-resistnt.  It

was used for a variety of applications, including furniture.

 

: Woods that bear investigation are birch, beech and box. I was told that box was

: so named because it was considered ideal for making boxes out of. Beech is

: still considered to be one of the best woods for household artefacts.

 

Boxwood was used a lot for miniature carvings with lots of detail - it is

very fine-grained.  The Metropolitan Museum of Art in NYC has a couple of

incredible examples.  It was also used for musical instruments (along

with lime, I believe).  Also basswood (linden), pear, etc.

 

: The best answer is still to study atefacts but I hope this helps a little.

 

A couple of references I have that discuss period woods:

 

Know Your Woods: A Complete Guide to Trees, Woods, and Veneers.  Albert

Constantine, Jr.  ISBN 0-684-18778-7  (Macmillan Publishing, NY)

 

Oak Funriture, The British Tradition.  Victor Chinnery. ISBN 1 85149 013

2  (Antique Collector's Club, Woodbridge, Suffolk UK)

 

Have fun,

Colin

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: keegan at netcom.com (Tim Bray/C. Keegan)

Subject: Re: Thakka Feyrir, Vanaheim Vikings

Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

Date: Wed, 20 Apr 1994 16:13:15 GMT

 

I missed the origin of this thread, so apologies if this is redundant or

out of place.

 

Doug Brunner (techws at hp-pcd.hp.cv.com) wrote:

: There are many types of wood available, here. I know that the Middle Age

: Western Europe had Oak and Walnut. I'm not sure about other types of wood.

: As an example, Yew wood. I don't believe that the Pacific Yew is that similar.

: The Yew, here, is red. I believe that the UK has Alder, but I'm not sure. What

: are/were the common woods? The Oak and Walnut are a different Genus,

: but they seem to be similar in appearance. Also, what about different types

: of Maple, Acer Genus?

 

A book called - Oak Funiture: The British Tradition (Victor Chinnery, 1979,

reprinted 1993, ISBN 1 85149 013 2  published by Antique Collector's Club

Ltd, Woodbridge, Suffolk, IP12 1DS UK -  contains a wealth of info about

woods and their uses in Britain prior to 1750, including much on the

Middle Ages.

 

 

European Oak is Quercus robur (also "sessile oak," Q. petraea).  

Basically, nothing available today is comparable to Medieval oak, because

the habit of growth is different now (as a result of the complete loss of

the old-growth forest cover).  American White Oak (Q. alba) "is very

similar to the European Q. robur, with a finely pronounced figure, and

similar working properties...  It is virtually indistinguishable in use

from robur, even by microanalysis..."  If you are going to do medieval

furniture, try to get quartersawn white oak; it comes closest to the

appearance and properties of "period" oak.

 

 

Other woods used for medieval furniture include:  

 

Ash (Fraxinus excelsior) - easily riven into thin boards; widely used by

turners for chairmaking

 

Elm (Ulmus procera - English; U. x hollandica - Dutch) Very tough and

difficult to cleave; used for table-tops & chair seats

 

Beech (Fagus sylvatica) - inferior to ash, and not much to look at, so

usually covered with fabric, paint, etc.

 

Walnut (Juglans regia) - supposedly introduced to Britain by the Romans;

most period walnut thought to have been imported from France, Italy,

Spain... widely used fro furniture of all types.

 

Chestnut (Castanea sativa)  lloks a lot like oak without the ray

structure.  Used for many of the same purposes - timber framing and

furniture.  

 

Pear, Apple, etc. - hard, used fro turnings

 

Sycamore (Acer pseudo platanus)  also good for turning and used for

eating utensils, since it doesn't lend a taste to food.  I have seen

possets and trenchers from sycamore.

 

Maple (Acer campastris, European field maple)  apparently used only

occasionally for furniture.

 

Poplar (Populus nigra, P. alba) -  Medieval chests, used for the lids!  

Later used for chair-seats, etc.

 

Deals (Pine, larch, spruce)  Highly valued in England in the XVIc for

wall-panelling and also for furniture.  In 1252, Henry III specified

Norwegian pine boards for wall-panelling at Winchester Castle.  In the

Alpine countries, lots of pine was used fro architectural woodwork and

furniture.

 

Hope this is of interest to you.  What sorts of items do you contemplate

making?

 

Sharp CHisels,

Sir Colin dearg, West

 

 

From: sclark at epas.utoronto.ca (Susan Clark)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: HISTORIC ASSIST????

Date: 14 Apr 1994 00:40:12 GMT

Organization: EPAS Computing Facility, University of Toronto

 

Greetings...

      There is a good number of wooden items illustrated in _The

Archaeology of Novgorod, Russia_, M. Brisbane, ed. (lincoln:

The Society for Medieval Archaeology, monography 13, 1992).  Good

stuff like combs and spoons, many of them nicely carved.

 

Cheers!

Nicolaa/Susan

Canton of Eoforwic

sclark at epas.utoronto.ca

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: mittle at watson.ibm.com (Arval d'Espas Nord)

Subject:  Thakka Feyrir, Vanaheim Vikings

Date: Fri, 22 Apr 1994 17:24:11 GMT

Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research

 

[Posted for Mistress Thora Sharptooth]

 

Greetings from Thora Sharptooth!

 

I hope it's not too late to get in on this thread.

 

Bruno from Coeur du Val (techws at hp-pcd.hp.cv.com) wrote:

 

>I'm looking mostly for the Day to Day things,

>such as tool chests, scribe equipment, etc. [....]

>I'm looking mostly for things that may be interesting, but very

>portable. I have to carry it from show to show.

 

There's a gorgeous carved box (I forget if it's the "pen box" or the "document

box") illustrated in FROM VIKING TO CRUSADER.  It's formed of one piece of wood

with a (pivoting?) top, deeply carved with entwined ribbon beasties.

 

>There are many types of wood available, here. I know that the Middle Age

>Western Europe had Oak and Walnut. I'm not sure about other types of wood.

>As an example, Yew wood. I don't believe that the Pacific Yew is that similar.

>The Yew, here, is red. I believe that the UK has Alder, but I'm not sure. What

>are/were the common woods? The Oak and Walnut are a different Genus,

>but they seem to be similar in appearance. Also, what about different types

>of Maple, Acer Genus?

 

For types of wood, I first looked at the few notes I was able to make in my

encounter with the OSEBERGFUNDET books and found mention of the following

woods.

 

ash (construction framing, barrel hoops)

beech (troughs, plate, strainer frame, bucket hoops, parts of at least 5

  different loom-like structures, iron-tipped implement [possibly stylus?])

fir (trough, bucket staves, weaving tablets)

fir/pine (construction framing)

oak (bucket lid, barrel staves, bench seat)

yew (bucket staves)

 

In addition, on going through FROM VIKING TO CRUSADER I found artifacts listed

that were made of the following kinds of wood.

 

alder (bowls)

ash (bucket staves, trough, turned vessels, cradle planks)

aspen (part of a Madonna)

beech (key, bucket hoops, bedframe, chairs, part of a Madonna, underwater

  naval blockade construction)

birch (ladle, stool, arrow shaft, lathe-turned bucket, chair, saint's head,

  document box)

boxwood (panpipes)

elm (bowl)

fir (toy horse)

ivy or holly (amulet)

juniper (head carved on a peg)

larch (spoon)

lime (Oseberg animal head posts [?], a Madonna)

maple (walking stick, turned vessels, spinning top, box lid, parts of a chair)

oak (ships, construction timbers of various types, oven rakes, ladder, spade,

  pitchfork, chests, bed planks, Kunigunde's jewel box, crucifix, cradle

  runners)

osier (bucket hoops)

pine (oars, deck planking, skis, door mouldings, furniture planks, bucket

  staves, runestick, column capital, baptismal font, wall panels, chest)

spruce (rune stick, tally stick [Norway spruce])

willow (Slavic treenails, catches for bucket hoops, toy boat, crucifix, carved

  Virgin)

yew (walking stick, Ranvaik's shrine [a box], bucket, rune stick, box mount,

  cup)

 

Tilia platyphylla [bigleaf linden] (crucifix)

Populus tremulus (a "sewn boat")

Cornus sanguinea [bloodtwig dogwood] (crucifix shaft)

Pinus sylvestris [Scotch pine] (carved furniture plank)

 

Also pursuing the question of wood nomenclature, Michael Fenwick

(UDSD007 at DSIBM.OKLADOT.STATE.OK.US) wrote:

 

>In article <2oi41l$qfm at usenet.pa.dec.com>,

>haslock at oleum.zso.dec.com (Nigel Haslock) writes:

>

>>Also, maple is unknown in England but Sycamore is similar and currently

>common.

>

>>        Fiacha

>

>I think that our North American "sycamore" (a.k.a. sweet

>gum?) is not the same as the European "sycamore", based on

>discussions with various woodwind makers here and there.

>Not, mind you, that I know what European "sycamore" really

>is. Sorry.

 

I raided my husband's woodworking bookshelf because I remembered seeing

something about English maple.  Here's what I found.

 

According to Mike Abbott's GREEN WOODWORK:  WORKING WITH WOOD THE NATURAL WAY

(Melksham, Wiltshire:  Redwood Press Ltd., 1991 [ISBN #0-946819-18-1]), the

wood referred to in England as "sycamore" is in fact a species of maple, Acer

pseudoplatanus.  It has a five-lobed semi-connected maple-style leaf and paired

helicopter seeds.  He says "the wood is pale cream, similar to that of the ash,

but in many other respects it resembles beech.... It is easy to work with hand

tools as well as on the lathe, and if worked while still wet tends not to crack

when it dries.  Having no taste, it is therefore ideal for all kitchenware such

as spoons, bowls and rolling-pins.... Sycamore grows in most parts of

Britain...."  (p. 27)

 

Abbott also lists a "field maple," which he says is a smaller tree than the

Acer pseudoplatanus with more dense wood "ideal for spoons or bowls."  He

doesn't give the Latin name for this tree.  He lists the English oak species as

Quercus robur; beech as Fagus sylvatica; ash as Fraxinus excelsior; English elm

as Ulmus procera; and he uses "birch" to mean silver birch, Betula pendula.

 

A look through WYMAN'S GARDENING ENCYCLOPEDIA reveals a listing for Acer

psuedoplatanus, the "sycamore maple."  It is naturalized in the US.  Another

maple native to Europe but now naturalized here is the Norway maple, Acer

Platanoides.

 

Other woods mentioned by Abbott are also mentioned in Wyman.  Quercus robur

("English Oak") is also naturalized in the US. It is a white oak whose climate

zone (5) is narrow but cuts through a wide number of SCA kingdoms including

large parts of western East (AEthelmearc, including Cooper's Lake), Midrealm,

and Calontir.  Fraxinus excelsior is "European ash," found in the Northern

Region of the East, Northshield, and (alas, my SCA geography fades in this

region) Wyoming.  Ulmus procera, "English elm" (is this getting predictable

yet?), is also found in Zone 5.  Betula pendula (aka Betula alba) is a

white-barked birch limited to the far northern reaches of the East, the Middle,

An Tir, and parts of the West and Caid.

 

Hope this is helpful.

 

****************************************************************************

Carolyn Priest-Dorman                   Thora Sharptooth

Poughkeepsie, NY                        Frosted Hills (ci-devant Val Coeur!)

priest at vassar.edu                       East Kingdom (for now....)

            Gules, three square weaver's tablets in bend Or

****************************************************************************

 

 

From: tip at lead.aichem.arizona.edu (Tom Perigrin)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Wood and tree names in 16th cent. England

Date: 27 Apr 1994 20:37:59 GMT

Organization: Department of Chemistry

 

In article <2pjq9s$n5 at zip.eecs.umich.edu>, Daniel K. Jarrell

<jarrell at engin.umich.edu> wrote:

 

> Brazil (Brasell), Turkey (Turkie) wood, Fusticke, Sugarcheste, Hardbeame,

> Birch (Byrche), Ash (Asshe), Oak (Ooke), Seruis tree, Hulder,

> Blackthorne, Beech (Beche), Elder, Aspen (Aspe), and Salow.

> Does anyone out there know what

> Turkey wood, Fusticke, Sugarcheste, Hardbeam, Serius tree, Hulder, and

> salow are known by today.

>

 

Is there any context which might help?

 

You should be careful in assigning modern names to the translation of older

names for exotics.  Many exotics have changed their names over 400 years.

For example, the "deal" of today is not the same as "deal" 400 years ago...

  Deal used to be a specific type of spruce from Scandanavia...   however,

as that spruce was logged out, deal came to mean any one of the type of

trees typically imported from Scandanavia, to wit, "fir or pine".

 

Having said that, let me try to ascribe some guesses.

 

Turkeywood. I couldn't find anything. I might suspect this is a place name.

 

Fusticke - Chlorophora sp...   any of a number of tropical trees related to

the mulberry that yeild a yellow dye stuff.

 

Sugarcheste - chestnuts come in at least two varieties,  horse chestnut

(Aesculus sp.)  and the true chestnut (Castanea sp.) which is edible

(sweet).   The wood of the horse chestnut is coarse grained.

 

Hardbeam - I would guess hornbeam (Carpinus sp.), a member of the birch

family.

A very good wood for many uses.  Strong, dense, good fracture resistance.

 

Serius tree - a tree without a sense of humour.

 

Hulder - I would guess Alder (Alnus sp.), members of the birch family.

Good turning woood, and the bark is used in dying.

 

Salow - I would guess sallow (Salix sp), a member of the willow family.

 

Thomas Ignatius Perigrinus

 

 

From: J.N.DEakin at sheffield-hallam.ac.UK (Jim N. Deakin)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Wood and tree names in 16th cent. England

Date: 13 May 1994 08:18:59 -0400

Organization: Sheffield Hallam University

 

Greetings, from Niall of Stone Ford,

   I didn't reply earlier to this, since I read only the Digest form of the

Rialto, and almost invariably all queries have been answered before I get

chance. But this time I get to help!

From Mistress Gwennis' note:

>  Daniel K. Jarrell(jarrell at engin.umich.edu) wrote:

> : Does anyone out there know what

> : Turkey wood, Fusticke, Sugarcheste, Hardbeam, Serius tree, Hulder, and

> : salow are known by today.

>

I may be misremembering, but I thought the 'Serius tree' was 'seruis tree'

in the original note, and there is a hedgerow tree called 'Service', which is

now regarded as very rare. However in a fairly recent book called

'Woodturning Wizardry' it is described as reasonably common, but rarely

recognised. I've never noticed it anyway.

 

Master Thomas Peregrinus' note about Sugarcheste is almost certainly

correct, I would add that the 'edible chestnut' tree is still called the Sweet

Chestnut over here.

 

Yours in serius

   Niall

.........................................................................

From:    Jim Deakin,        |

Sheffield Hallam University |

Computer Services,         |   Humouroids are caused by hardening of the

   Pond Hill,               |   attitudes

    Sheffield  S1 1WB       |

      England.              |

.........................................................................

Email on:

  JANET            :   J.N.DEAKIN at uk.ac.shu

  INTERNET or UUCP :   J.N.DEAKIN%shu.ac.uk at nsfnet-relay.ac.uk

.........................................................................

 

 

From: corliss at hal.PHysics.wayne.EDU (David J. Corliss)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Wood for Scabbards

Date: 22 Jun 1994 11:55:18 -0400

Organization: the internet

 

Number one choice: (Hard/Rock/Sugar) Maple (They're all the same thing).

 

(Yes, really. I have some I bought for making  harps and psalteries that still

has a few tap holes near the edge.)

 

Maple is beautiful: very hard and durable, fairly easy to work (so long as you

keep your tools sharp), and has an smooth, fine, even grain. It is not full of

acid like oak and polishes beautifully. I think it is fine with just varnish.

Put polyurathane on a scabbard and it will last a very long time without being

conspicuously modern. The wood is very pale: it is often described as "blond".

For a katana,of course, you will need a black enamel. This will not be a

problem.

 

If weight is a concern, try to get your hands on some willow. This very strong

wood is relatively light, making it one of the favorite woods of the ancient

Irish harp makers.

 

            .....this has been a public service message from the Middle Kingdom

College of Sciences.........

 

 

From: corliss at hal.PHysics.wayne.EDU (David J. Corliss)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Maple: Hard vs. soft

Date: 27 Jun 1994 14:10:59 -0400

Organization: the internet

 

Eyrny of Eadormere writes:

 

> I don't know what maple you get but the maple I'm used to is classified

> as soft....

 

Hard maple (also called rock maple) is wood from Acer Saccarum, the same tree

from which maple syrup is derived. _Any_ other maple (Acer) species is known in

the lumber trade as soft maple.

 

This is not to say that soft maple is soft compared with almost any wood: it is

very hard and durable, only somewhat less so than hard maple. It is certainly

hard, strong, and servicable for most purposes for which one uses hardwoods.

 

For soft maple (indeed, _any_ maple) is a hardwood (deciduous), not a softwood

(coniferous). It's just not as quite hard as hard maple, hence the name.

 

              ......this has been a public service announcement from the Middle

Kingdom College of Sciences........

 

 

From: kkeeler at unlinfo.unl.edu (kathleen keeler)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Linden

Date: 16 May 1995 18:34:40 GMT

Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln    

 

Hal Ravn asked "What are the species of linden on both sides of the

Atlantic? (i.e. are the European and American linden trees the same

species?)

 

No. (Although such species exist, its rare for a species to have a

a range that includes both continents.)

 

The Illustrated Flora of Britain and Northern Europe M. Blamey & C.

Grey-Wilson, Hodder and Stoughton, London 1989  (ISBN 0 340 40170 2

a very nice book) lists 3 species (for its area of interest)

_Tilia platyphyllos_ large-leaved lime

_T. cordata_ small-leaved lime

_T. x vulgaris_ common lime.  They list _T.x europaea_ as a synonym

    for T. vulgaris, and the x implies a hybrid, apparently of the

    other two lime trees.  A named hybrid is usually a common easily

    found combination:  I don't know Tilia well myself.

 

Gray's Manual (east coast US flora) lists 4 species of Tilia

   native to its region: _T. americana_ basswood or whitewood

   _T. floridana_  no common name given  

   _T. neglecta_ no common name given

   _T. heterophylla_  white basswood

as well as _T. europaea_ and _T. platyphyllos_ introduced from Europe,

spread to rubbish and roadsides

and _T. petiolaris_ pendent silver linden, introduced from Eurasia

sometimes spreading from cultivation to waste places

 

(Gray's Manual is 1950, corrected 1970, there could be more introduced

species, or they could have spread more or ceased to spread in all that

time.)

[_Tilia_ is my attempt to underline, which tells the printer to put it

in italics, which is the proper way to handle foreign words within an

English text, which is what the scientific names are since they are in

Latin!]      

 

The California flora (Munz) lists no _Tilia_ species and the Flora of

the Great Plains only _T. americana_.  I don't have references for

Southern or Eastern Europe, but I don't think the pattern likely to

change: two distinct groups of species but classified in the same

genus.  (I think the biogeography would be that lindens diversified

when there was one connected northern continent, Laurasia, and have

evolved in isolation since the North Atlantic formed.)

    

Hope that helps.  Thanks, I learned a bunch.  And I'm very

happy for any EFR! (EFR = excuse for research)

 

Agnes deLanvallei, Mag Mor, Calontir

kkeeler at unlinfo.unl.edu

 

 

From: derek.broughton at onlinesys.com (DEREK BROUGHTON)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Linden

Date: Sun, 21 May 95 18:49:00 -300

Organization: Online Systems Of Canada

 

ÿ#TO     :djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu                                 N

djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (dorothy j heydt) wrote:

DJ>In article <3par80$7e2 at crcnis3.unl.edu>,

DJ>kathleen keeler <kkeeler at unlinfo.unl.edu> wrote:

DJ>>Hal Ravn asked "What are the species of linden on both sides of the

DJ>>Atlantic? (i.e. are the European and American linden trees the same

DJ>>species?)

DJ>>

DJ>>No. (Although such species exist, its rare for a species to have a

DJ>>a range that includes both continents.)

 

DJ>That's what I expected.

 

DJ>>The Illustrated Flora of Britain and Northern Europe M. Blamey & C.

DJ>>Grey-Wilson, Hodder and Stoughton, London 1989 (ISBN 0 340 40170 2

DJ>>a very nice book) lists 3 species (for its area of interest)

DJ>>_Tilia platyphyllos_ large-leaved lime

DJ>>_T. cordata_ small-leaved lime

DJ>>_T. x vulgaris_ common lime.

 

DJ>So the rumor I'd come across that 'limewood' is linden may likely

DJ>be true.  I'll have to check when I get a chance at my local

DJ>specialty lumber yard.

 

Absolutely.  Linden and Lime are completely synonymous, and Basswood is one

or more species of Linden. My reference is "Trees of North America and

Europe", R. Phillips, Random House, NY, 1978. (Interestingly, the Random

House version is Trees of North America, then 'and europe' in small print.

The original english edition is Trees of Europe, then 'and North america' in

small print!).

 

As Katherine said T.x Vulgaris (also known as T. x Europa) is a hybrid of T

cordata and T platyphyllos.  Also available in N.A. is T.Oliveri, T.x

Euchlora (Crimean Lime), T Petiolaris (Weeping Silver Lime, or Weeping White

Linden), T. Tomentosa (Silver Lime).  These are all Eurasian in origin and

grown in parks & large gardens.

 

DJ>>Gray's Manual (east coast US flora) lists 4 species of Tilia

DJ>>   native to its region: _T. americana_ basswood or whitewood

 

Coryn llith Rheged                 |  Canton of Wessex Mere

mka Derek Broughton                |  Barony of Ramshaven

derek.broughton at onlinesys.com      |  Principality of Ealdormere

                                   |  Middle Kingdom

 

 

From: IMC at vax2.utulsa.EDU (I. Marc Carlson)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Woods (was Leather Armor ...)

Date: 25 Oct 1995 14:41:33 -0400

Organization: The Internet

 

<Kel Rekuta <krekuta at tor.hookup.net>>

>Actually Diarmuit,

 

Piffle.

 

Ok.  First Balderik, now you.  I must be wrong, then, so let's see what

the right answer is :)    Going over to

the Complete Dictionary of Wood by Thomas Corkhill, 1980.

 

"Linden, see Lime."

 

"Lime.  Tilia vulgaris, T. cordata, T. parvifolia, T. platyphylla.  

Also called tiinden.  Yellowish white with reddish lnge [sic.].  Soft,

light, stable, not durable.  Fine close grain with faint rays and ripples.

Easily wrought.  Used for carving, musical instruments, artificial limbs,

etc. Specific Gravity .52  Comparative workability 1.75"

 

"Boxwood  Buxus sempervirens (H.)  Common box.  Also called Abassian,

European, Turkey and Persian Box.  S. Europe and Asia Minor.  Very Hard

with close even grain and lustrous.  Small sizes/  Used for turnery,

tools, instruments, engraver's blocks, carving, etc. Specific gravity

1.0  Comparative workability 4.  The name Boxwood or Box is applied to

many other woods having similar characteristics: Amarillo, Blue gum,

Dogwood, Erin, Gardenia, Ibira-nira, Jacaranda, etc.  See also Casewood."

 

"Bass  1. the inner bark, especially of the Lime, or Linden, Tree.  It

is tough and fibrous bast, and is used for weaving into mats.  2. See

Basswood."

 

"Basswood  Tilia glabra, or T. americana, T. nigra, T. latifolia, T.

canadensis, T. heterophylla. USA and Canada.  The Lime or Linden tree.

Also called American Whitewood.  Large sizes.  Yellowish or greyish white

to pale brown. Light, soft, not strong or durable.  Even grain, fine

texture, soft, easy to work, shrinks and warps freely. Stains and

polishes well, and uses as a substitute for superior hardwoods.  Used

for panels, plywood, cheap cabinet work, carving, interor joinery, piano

keys, containers, excelsior, etc. Inner bark is very fibrous and used

for rope making and matting.  Specific gravity .45 Comparative

workability 2"

 

Well, it seems that Balderik was right and I *did* mean basswood, which

means I need to check with the guy who sells me wood and see if I

misunderstood him, or if he's confused.

 

"Rowan Tree  Pyrus aucuparia.  Europe.  Also called Mountain Ash, but no

relation to Ash.  Reddish brown, darker summer wood. Moderately hard

heavy, tough and elastic/  Close grain, some beautifully figured, with pith

flecks.  Discolours easily with glue, and of little commercial value.

Small sizes.  Used for furniture, tools etc.  See Mountain Ash."

 

"Mountain Ash  Eucalyptus regnans, E. delgatensis..."

 

"Dogwood  1. Ichthyomethia piscipula or Piscadia picapula.  Central America.

Yellowish brown, Lustrous.  Hard, heavy, very strong. and durable.  Roey

medium texture. Polishes well.  Used for pilings, vehicles, ship-building,

etc  Specific Gravity .87 Comparative workability 4.

          2. Cormus florida.  Also called American Boxwood. Pinkish, hard,

heavy, very fine grain.  Used for turnery, shuttles, inlay, etc.

             C. Sanguinea.  Also called Cornel  Very hard and tough, small

sizes.  Cultivated chiefly for charcoal and explosives.

             C. Nuttallii.  Pacific Dogwood.  Similar to above species of

Cormus.  Specific Gravity .7."

 

"Cornel  See also Dogwood, Cornus and Stonewood"

 

"Poplar  Populus soo.  Willow family, widespread. White to greyish brown,

darker streaks, often lustrous.  Fairly light and soft. Good abrasive

resistance, does not splinter...  Specific Gravity .5 Comparative

workability 1  Used for turnery, toys, sabots, matches, cooperage...

American Poplar, see Aspen, Balsam, and Cottonwood. (Other varieties

have a Populus name.  Note that Cottonwood is sometimes referred to

as American Whitewood."

 

So, let's see if I have this right.  Boxwood and Dogwood are very durable

*hard*woods, while Basswood is a kind of Lime (or Linden) tree, but is

easily confused for at least one form of Poplar.

 

Pfeh.

 

Leather, at least, makes sense.

 

"Mihi Satis Apparet Propter     Diarmuit Ui Dhuinn

  Se Ipsum Appetenda Sapientia" University of Northkeep/Company of St. Jude

-- St. Dunstan                 Northkeepshire, Ansteorra

                                (I. Marc Carlson/IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu)

 

 

From: rhayes at powerup.com.au (Robin Hayes)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Anvils and smiths

Date: 25 Dec 1996 04:58:58 GMT

Organization: Power Up

 

In article <19961220164600.LAA08124 at ladder01.news.aol.com>, of 20 Dec 1996

16:47:38 GMT, jhrisoulas at aol.com of jhrisoulas at aol.com says...

>

>Please let me interject a few words gleaned from a couple of years

>experience in this sort of thing:

>

>In article <59d3t7$280$1 at grissom.powerup.com.au>, rhayes at powerup.com.au

>(Robin Hayes) writes:

 

<Large SNIP of stuff concerning size of anvil and mentioning Iron bark

stumps to mount the anvil on to increase the mass.>

 

>(on a personal note: where can I obtain a sample of this  Ironback

>wood????)

 

A brief note on Ironbark...

 

I spoke about size of anvils, and that it was possible to use a smallish

anvil.

 

I said Quote

 

There are tricks to using a smaller anvil (i.e.) the lump of iron. The mass

is important in order to provide a resistance to allow the under surface to

be struck back and work that surface. More mass, or allowing the mass of

iron to be mounted on an Ironback stump (a native Australian wood, bloody

solid stuff very hard and rigid) to effectively beef up the mass of the

anvil can give satisfactory results for smallish objects.

 

Unquote

 

The other day, at a contry markets display place, I was looking at working

blacksmith shop with a forge where a 50 lb anvil was set on a large piece

of iron bark sunk many feet in the ground. It works as well as the 100 lb

anvil at the forge on the other side of the shop. The stump was between 2-3

ft in diameter. The anvil is securely pinned to the stump.

 

You want a timber that will NOT bounce when struck....

 

The 2-3 ft diameter block is set some feet 3/4/5, how deep a hole do you

want, and how big is your stump... in the ground, and the hole compacted.

The anvil is pinned to the top, bringing it to working height. If you can

get a lump 3 or 4 feet in diameter, and high enough to mount your anvil on

while the block rests on a concrete floor, you can almost get the same

results, because a block this size is so heavy I cannnot lift it,

definitely heavier than a 100 lb anvil on its own...

 

The Good Doctor asked what is this ironbark wood, and where would he get

it...

 

Well...

 

Australians have a tradition of wood so hard that it shatters axes, heavy,

almost imperviouis to weathering, etc. Thus "Ironbark" is more of a common

name, which may apply to several different types of native Australian

Woods.

 

Now for some hard facts...

 

I picked up Johnson on Wood [2] (a superb 275 page book with many period

references with pictures  including pictures of a first century wooden doll

and an Egyptian ride on horse AD200 - P212), and of course, it does not

recognise the slang Australian term.

 

Encl Brit [1] has a sizeable relevant entry on Ironwood. Briefly, there are

many types of this sort of timber, in the US it mentions the most widely

distributed as being hop hornbeam, and blue birch. ther are many others. Of

course, no refernce to Australian timbers...

 

Back to Johnson [2]... it mentions Ironwood, and gives examples. I am not

an expert, but from vague memories, and some searching I believe Australian

"Ironwood" is in the Eucalyptus family, some of them being Blackbutt (so

hard it cannot be nailed, but must be drilled first), Jarrah, and Karri,

quantities of logs of which were exported internationally for bridges,

piers and wharves.

 

The classic definition of Iron wood is that it sinks in water, it is so

heavy. Consequently, is is so dense, that it will absorb the shock of the

hammer blow and not "kick back", adding to the inertial mass of the anvil.

 

You may be lucky... or you may find a suitable timber locally. Little

scraps are useless, you want MASS in that block of wood... :-)

~~~~~

Ref:

(1) Encl Brit 1961 (my copy) Vol 12 Pg 675  entry on Ironwood.

 

(2) The International Book of Wood - Hugh Johnson 1976/79/80

Mitchell Beazley Publishers Ltd

87-89 Shaftesbury Avenue London

ISBN 085533 081 3 Hardbound

ISBN 085533 182 8 Paperback

 

Robin

--

rhayes at powerup.com.au http://www.powerup.com.au/~rhayes/

The Virtual Fooles Troupe: http://www.powerup.com.au/~rhayes/vfoolshm.htm

 

 

Subject: Ironbark

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 98 05:02:53 MST

From: Lawrence James McLean <mcleanl at ozemail.net.au>

To: markh at risc

 

Hi Mark,

 

I was searching the net trying to find some info about a tree that I

choose to grow in my front yard, a Grey Ironbark (Eucalyptus Paniculata)

and I came across your page on timber, and I thought that you may be

interested in some information regarding the Ironbarks you mentioned.

 

The Ironbarks are a group of Australian Eucalypts that are all

characterised by their deeply forrowed and very hard bark.

 

There are many varieties of Eucalypts and the properties of the timbers

varies widely between the various types. The Blackbutts, Karri and

Jarrah that you also mentioned are not part of the Ironbark family.

 

All of the Eucalypt timbers tend to be heavy and strong, however the

Ironbarks are the heaviest and strongest.

 

One of the varieties of the Ironbarks is particularly impressive. The

timber of most Ironbarks is heavy and strong but brittle. However one

variety; Grey Ironbark, is not brittle.

 

The following table lists the properties of a few timbers including Grey

Ironbark:

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

| Timber        |  Density     | Modulus of rupture|Modulus of

Elasticity| max crushing strength| Impact value | Hardness    |

| (Origin)      |   (Kg/m^3)   |       (MPa)       |        (GPa)

|          (MPa)       |Izod value (J)| Janka (kN)  |

|               |Green | Dry   |  Green   | Dry    |  Green   | Dry

|  Green    |  Dry     |Green  | Dry  |Green | Dry  |

|----------------|------|-------|----------|--------|----------|----------|-----------|--------|-------|------|------|------|

| Hickory (USA) |      |       |  76     | 139    |  11      |  15     |  32       |  64      |       |      |  6.0 |  9.5 |

| Douglas Fir   |  730 |  510  |  50      |  86    |   9      |  12

|  24       |  47      |       |      |  1.9 |  2.6 |

| Oak (Europe)  |      |  690  |  59      |  97    |   8      |  10

|  28       |  52      |       |      |  4.7 |  5.5 |

| Teak (Burma)  |      |  640  |  84      | 106    |   9      |  10

|  43       |  60      |       |      |  4.1 |  4.5 |

| Ebony (Africa)|      | 1010  |          | 180    |          |  18

|           |  92      |       |      |      | 14.0 |

| Grey Ironbark | 1210 | 1120  | 120      | 181    |  20      |  24

|  60       |  95      | 24    | 27   | 11.0 | 14.0 |

| (Australia)   |      |       |          |        |          |

|           |          |       |      |      |      |

| Jarrah (Aust.)| 1170 |  820  |  68      | 112    |  10      |  13

|  36       |  61      | 13    | 10   |  5.7 |  8.5 |

| Karri (Aust.) | 1200 |  900  |  73      | 132    |  14      |  19

|  36       |  72      | 21    | 24   |  6.0 |  9.0 |

| Blackbutt (Aus| 1100 |  900  | 100      | 144    |  17      |  19

|  48       |  77      | 21    | 22   |  7.3 |  9.1 |

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

There are other Ironbarks, although slightly heavier than Grey Ironbark,

their mechanical properties are significantly inferior.

--

Lawrence J. McLean                      Phone   61 2 9896 3324  (home)

9 Cosimo Place                                  61 2 9807 0528  (work)

Toongabbie   NSW  2146

Australia

 

 

From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.nopsam.com>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Woods used in Weaponcrafting

Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 23:33:25 -0700

 

djheydt at kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:

 

> Can anyone tell me offhand, or provide a link to a suitable site,

> what kinds of woods were used in weaponcrafting in period --

> specifically, Early to High Middle Ages?  I know about yew for

> bowstaves and linden for shields.  Arrowshafts are made of cedar

> nowadays; what about in period?  I have this vague recollection

> about hazel, but perhaps I'm just confabulating.

>

> What about axe-handles (ash?), sword-grips, and so forth?

>

> I'm trying to put together a collection of short Exeter-Book-like

> riddles whose answers are various weapon- and armor-making

> materials.  It will be easier to formulate the questions if I

> start with the right answers.

 

I'm pretty sure ash is the traditional wood for spears.

 

If you want to go beyond weapons, the one surviving Germanic lyre is

made of maple, and its tuning pegs are elm and hazel.

--

http://www.daviddfriedman.com/ http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/

Author of _Harald_, a fantasy without magic.

Published by Baen, in bookstores now

 

 

From: Andy Dingley <dingbat at codesmiths.com>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Woods used in Weaponcrafting

Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 18:52:14 +0100

Organization: Codesmiths, UK

 

On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 23:33:25 -0700, David Friedman

<ddfr at daviddfriedman.nopsam.com> wrote:

 

>If you want to go beyond weapons, the one surviving Germanic lyre is

>made of maple, and its tuning pegs are elm and hazel.

 

Have you got any detailed references for that?   "Maple" (as we

generally know it today, from common US practice) isn't commonly found

in Europe and it would be quite surprising for it to be the same timber

at the species level.  Chances are it's still an Acer, but not the same

species (or close-up appearance) at all as what you'd get if you went

into a timberyard and asked for "maple".   The names for the maple /

sycamore / plane species get very intertwined if you compare them across

the Atlantic.

 

Pretty much every timber was used for weaponmaking, and they had their

very specific uses, right down to tiny hawthorns. A good historical

guide to what was available would be to find a text on small woodland

forestry and look at the locations and the introduction dates for the

various hardwood species. I know that local to me (SW England) I can

still find species like lime (linden /basswood) that just wouldn't have

been available to Norsemen settling the NE coast.

 

 

From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.nopsam.com>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Woods used in Weaponcrafting

Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 19:46:42 -0700

 

Andy Dingley <dingbat at codesmiths.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 23:33:25 -0700, David Friedman

> <ddfr at daviddfriedman.nopsam.com> wrote:

>

> >If you want to go beyond weapons, the one surviving Germanic lyre is

> >made of maple, and its tuning pegs are elm and hazel.

>

> Have you got any detailed references for that?  

 

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&;sl=de&u=http://www.bodensee-a

bc.com/Bodensee/abc/museen/konstanz/archaeolog/leier.htm

 

At home I have the German archaeological magazine that has the

preliminary report on the Trossingen Lyre. A more detailed report is

supposed to be coming out, but I don't know if it is out yet.

 

> "Maple" (as we

> generally know it today, from common US practice) isn't commonly found

> in Europe and it would be quite surprising for it to be the same timber

> at the species level.  Chances are it's still an Acer, but not the same

> species (or close-up appearance) at all as what you'd get if you went

> into a timberyard and asked for "maple".   The names for the maple /

> sycamore / plane species get very intertwined if you compare them across

> the Atlantic.

 

I'm going by the archaological report, which used a word that my

dictionary translates as maple. Whether the translation is correct I

don't know.

--

http://www.daviddfriedman.com/ http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/

Author of _Harald_, a fantasy without magic.

Published by Baen, in bookstores now

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Woods used in Weaponcrafting

From: uwe at ohse.de (Uwe Ohse)

Organization: private site, duisburg

Date: 04 Jul 2006 07:55:55 GMT

 

<ddfr at daviddfriedman.nopsam.com> wrote:

>http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&;sl=de&u=http://www.bodensee-a

>bc.com/Bodensee/abc/museen/konstanz/archaeolog/leier.htm

>

>At home I have the German archaeological magazine that has the

>preliminary report on the Trossingen Lyre. A more detailed report is

>supposed to be coming out, but I don't know if it is out yet.

 

to the best of my knowledge the newest report is in

ArchŠology in Deutschland 3/2004, written by Barbara Theune-Gro§kopf.

 

>I'm going by the archaological report, which used a word that my

>dictionary translates as maple. Whether the translation is correct I

>don't know.

 

it is correct. And indeed there have been maples in the german area

since ancient times.

 

Regards, Uwe (native german speaker)

 

 

Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 22:53:39 +0200

From: Christophe Bachmann <Chris_CII at Compuserve.com>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Woods used in Weaponcrafting

 

Uwe Ohse a Žcrit :

> <ddfr at daviddfriedman.nopsam.com> wrote:

>> http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&;sl=de&u=http://www.bodensee-a

>> bc.com/Bodensee/abc/museen/konstanz/archaeolog/leier.htm

>>

>> At home I have the German archaeological magazine that has the

>> preliminary report on the Trossingen Lyre. A more detailed report is

>> supposed to be coming out, but I don't know if it is out yet.

>

> to the best of my knowledge the newest report is in

> ArchŠology in Deutschland 3/2004, written by Barbara Theune-Gro§kopf.

>

>

>> I'm going by the archaological report, which used a word that my

>> dictionary translates as maple. Whether the translation is correct I

>> don't know.

>

> it is correct. And indeed there have been maples in the german area

> since ancient times.

>

> Regards, Uwe (native german speaker)

 

However this is so-called Norwegian Maple (Acer Platanoides) and not

Rack or Sugar Maple (Acer saccharum) which are new world.

--

Greetings, Salutations,

Guiraud Belissen, Ch‰teau du Ciel, Drachenwald,

Chris CII, Rennes, France

 

 

From: dicconf at radix.net (Richard Eney)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Woods used in Weaponcrafting

Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 06:25:45 -0000

 

Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt at kithrup.com> wrote:

<snip>

>I was just reading yesterday -- in an article on organic

>small-scale maple-syrup production in the northeastern US -- that

>there really are maples in Europe, but they don't produce a

>fraction as much sugar as the North American ones do. Which is

>all the article was interested in.  Not a word on what kind of

>musical instrument the sugar maple would make.

 

It makes nice furniture.  Acer saccharum and Acer saccharinum

are not that different in wood quality.

 

=Tamar Lindsay

 

 

From: Charly the Bastard <nitecrawler7 at worldnet.att.net>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Woods used in Weaponcrafting

Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 13:05:48 GMT

 

David Friedman wrote:

>  djheydt at kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:

> > Can anyone tell me offhand, or provide a link to a suitable site,

> > what kinds of woods were used in weaponcrafting in period --

> > specifically, Early to High Middle Ages?  I know about yew for

> > bowstaves and linden for shields.  Arrowshafts are made of cedar

> > nowadays; what about in period?  I have this vague recollection

> > about hazel, but perhaps I'm just confabulating.

> >

> > What about axe-handles (ash?), sword-grips, and so forth?

> >

> > I'm trying to put together a collection of short Exeter-Book-like

> > riddles whose answers are various weapon- and armor-making

> > materials.  It will be easier to formulate the questions if I

> > start with the right answers.

>

> I'm pretty sure ash is the traditional wood for spears.

>

> If you want to go beyond weapons, the one surviving Germanic lyre is

> made of maple, and its tuning pegs are elm and hazel.

> --

> http://www.daviddfriedman.com/ http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/

 

Not just yew, but the boundary area between the heart and sap wood. The

heart was strong in compression and the sap was good in tension. So, the

bow was carved with the heart facing the archer and the sap facing the

target.  It's a matter of engineering.  Ash was the traditional wood for

spearshafts, being light and very springy, so as to absorb the bending

force applied when the spear point engaged the target armor without

failing. Hickory was for axe handles, a very tough wood that absorbed

the shock impact forces generated in use.   Hope this helps...

 

Charly

 

 

From: "celia" <c_a_blay at hotmail.com>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Woods used in Weaponcrafting

Date: 30 Jun 2006 06:03:33 -0700

 

David Friedman wrote:

> In article <J1nrvp.81J at kithrup.com>,

>  djheydt at kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:

>

> > Can anyone tell me offhand, or provide a link to a suitable site,

> > what kinds of woods were used in weaponcrafting in period --

> > specifically, Early to High Middle Ages?  I know about yew for

> > bowstaves and linden for shields.  Arrowshafts are made of cedar

> > nowadays; what about in period?  I have this vague recollection

> > about hazel, but perhaps I'm just confabulating.

 

The favoured Early Medieval wood for shafts was in

Old English called 'corntreow' or 'gatetreow', this translates

as cornel cherry. As this is from an english text and the

cornel cherry is thought to have been a 16th c. introduction

the dogwood seems more likely.

Cwicbeam,(cwictreow, cwicen) was used as a substitute

for yew in the making of longbows. this is known to us as

the Rowan or mountain ash. it was also good for tool

handles as is ash.

Hazel doesn't last well and so isn't much use but it

makes good gypsy clothes pegs and all you need is an old

tin can, a knife, some nails and a pair of tin snips.

 

Celia

 

 

From: "Alter S. Reiss" <asreiss at gmail.com>

Subject: Re: Woods used in Weaponcrafting

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 18:15:41 +0200

 

On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 05:43:01 GMT, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

> Can anyone tell me offhand, or provide a link to a suitable site,

> what kinds of woods were used in weaponcrafting in period --

> specifically, Early to High Middle Ages? (. . .)

> Arrowshafts are made of cedar

> nowadays; what about in period? (. . .)

 

I'm about 80% certain that the majority of arrowshafts excavated from the

_Mary Rose_ were poplar, and that there were also a few of beech, hazel,

and ash.

 

 

From: Ralph E Lindberg <n7bsn at callsign.net>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Woods used in Weaponcrafting

Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 08:04:41 -0700

 

David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.nopsam.com> wrote:

>  Christophe Bachmann <Chris_CII at Compuserve.com> wrote:

> > However this is so-called Norwegian Maple (Acer Platanoides) and not

> > Rack or Sugar Maple (Acer saccharum) which are new world.

>

> How different is the wood?

 

My recall is that Norway works more like Big Leaf then Rock/Sugar maple

 

 

From: "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott at csuohio.edu>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Woods used in Weaponcrafting

Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 02:09:55 -0400

 

On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 01:52:42 GMT, "Mark S. Harris"

<stefanlirous at austin.rr.com> wrote:

 

[...]

 

> I believe lime wood was a common material for shields,

> although I can't remember the time period.

 

At least pre-Christian through the Všlkerwanderung period,

and probably later.

<http://home6.inet.tele.dk/hjortspr/history.htm>; places a

considerable find of lime-wood shields ca. 350 BCE, and it's

not likely to be a coincidence that Old Norse <lind> 'lime

tree' is a poetic term for a shield.

 

Talan

 

<the end>



Formatting copyright © Mark S. Harris (THLord Stefan li Rous).
All other copyrights are property of the original article and message authors.

Comments to the Editor: stefan at florilegium.org