cook-ovr-fire-msg – 6/1/08
Cooking over open fires. Cooking feasts outdoors.
NOTE: See also these files: utensils-msg, iron-pot-care-msg, Kentwell-Hall-art, firepits-msg, camp-ovens-msg, ovens-msg, firestarting-msg.
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From: mfgunter at tddeng00.fnts.com (Michael F. Gunter)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 16:51:49 -0500
Subject: Re: SC - Feast planning
> What sorts of dishes have folks had good luck with cooking on a grill?
> We've done pork roast before, but other than that have had problems with
> meat getting dry and overdone. I'd be interested in other ideas.
>
> Caitlin
One thing that we do before feasts, and especially before grilling, is to boil
chickens first. Boil them until they are partially cooked but not falling off the bone. Then cool and place in whatever marinade you desire. Then grill them until they are brown and done. You shouldn't have the problems with drying when done this way. Also, this way they cook up fairly quickly and you can serve the
chicken hot.
Gunthar
From: "Nick Sasso (fra niccolo)" <grizly at mindspring.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 19:38:42 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - Feast planning
> One thing that we do before feasts, and especially before grilling, is
> to boil chickens first.
Another concept is to smoke the meat ahead of time. You'll have moist
meat that you can char on the barby or warm in an oven. Lots of
creative optins with smokers.
In Humble Service to God and Crown;
niccolo
From: nweders at mail.utexas.edu (ND Wederstrandt)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:37:08 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: SC - cooking frumenty for the masses
I have cooked outdoors with grains quite a bit since we wind up with lots
of outdoor events. I made a mushroom barley stew with leeks out doors. I
like barley which has a nutty taste that works well with stews. The best
thing I found is to cook smaller batches and mix them together. The
biggest problem with grains being cooked on Colemans, over fires and such
is too often the pot is too big and isn't stirred well so the bottom burns.
I use 3 gal pots and mix them when they are hot.. Our events usually have
a minimum of 150 hungry people with a maximum of 350 or 400 and the smaller
pots work better even though the dish takes longer to cook.
Another idea is to precook your grains a bring them out to reheat
and mix with any other ingredients. Again I think smaller pots work better
than large.
One of the best outdoor heating facilities I ever used was a water
heater bottom hooked up to a butane tank. It could boil a 25 gal pot of
hot water in less than two minutes. Really good......
Clare St. John
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 19:00:00 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - Cooking in a Period Environment
L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt wrote:
> How many of you have attempted to make your "camp cooking" period---not just
> the recipes and ingredients, but the fire irons, the pots and pans, the
> beehive ovens and the open spits. etc?
Up to a point. I've used a cast-iron bean pot (buried in a firepit) for
a pottage of canebyns with ham, and have baked in a Dutch oven up on
legs, and used both stone and cast iron bakestones. Can't seem to find a
smith who'll make me a rachingcroke I can afford, though...someday...<sigh>
.
> It's extra work, I grant you, but I also have had it shown to me that many
> of our recipes are altered by the situations in which we cook them and the
> modern tools we use. A pie baked in a kettle with coals heaped on the lid,
> and a pie baked in a gas oven, and a pie baked in a brick bakery oven will
> vary considerably as to taste, texture, and appearance. I really want to
> try a small event (perhaps our household of 40-odd) with no (or few) modern
> conveniences. Can anyone offer me some advice?
One of my dream EKU (insert name of your kingdom university here)
scenarios is a day in a tavern kitchen. This would be a class taking
pretty much the entire day, with a brewing, a baking, and meal
consisting of a pie, a pottage, a roast with sauces and a sallet or two.
Possibly a late period sweet. Since this would be a teaching kitchen,
I'd figured on doing about 3/4 of the food in advance, to be reheated in
pots near the fire or in the warm bread oven. (This would go a ways
toward preventing some disasters.) Most of the day would be spent doing
the remaining 25%, slowly and carefully, for both the students (and in
my case, the teacher) to learn some of the techniques.
You might consider something like that...
Adamantius
From: Par Leijonhufvud <parlei at ki.se>
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 08:18:11 +0200 (METDST)
Subject: Re: SC - Cooking in a Period Environment
On Mon, 30 Jun 1997, L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt wrote:
> How many of you have attempted to make your "camp cooking" period---not just
> the recipes and ingredients, but the fire irons, the pots and pans, the
> beehive ovens and the open spits. etc?
I've cooked for small groups of people (10-15) over campfire with only the
tools available: pots (one iron replica, one aluminium "billy can" type
pots), wooden spoons and ladles, knives, cutting boards. With the
limitations that this implies it works fine, but you should expect that it
takes some skill to work with the fire, and keep a constant temperature on
pots. I've also used what comes fairly close to the viking age skillets,
with good results when making bread.
Make sure you have plenty of firewood, and if you go for much larger
groups you probably should have someone detailed keeping the fire going at
a constant level. This person should have some knowledge of what it takes
to keep a fire going at a constant level (small sticks and constant
replenishment), but this should be ok for a teenager.
Have a convienient method of regulating your pots position relative to the
fire. My prefered setup is a trench type fireplace (say 1 1/2x4'), with a
bar at about 4-5' above. I then hang my pots from it using wooden "double
hooks"[1], but a viking style chain with hooks would work at least as
well. Remember that you can regulate by having the fire on one end, and
moving the pot sideways. For a larger setup this is another person;
stirring the pots and keeping them positioned.
Other useful things: nick a pair of welders gloves from one of your
neighbourhood stickjocks. Useful for handling hot and sooty pots.
If you are going to do anything largish at all, I strongly recommend
getting a table. It makes lots of things much easier.
/UlfR
[1] Join to wooden hooks until you have a "Z" shape (say 5-6" long). Your
pot hangs on one, and a sturdy string from the other. it is then easy to
roll up a turn of string on the upper hood when needed. The upper end of
the string is tied with a loop (large enough to slide easilly) to the bar.
- --
Par Leijonhufvud par.leijonhufvud at labtek.ki.se
From: KandL Johnston <woodrose at malvern.starway.net.au>
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 11:44:12 +1000
Subject: Re: SC - Cooking in a Period Environment
L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt wrote:
> I also (with much anxiety, as it was my
> first totally period camp meal) made our dinner with an open spit, and a
> nifty cast iron trivet thingy attached to the spit's upright that held my
> pots over the flame. I am a new woman with a new goal! I want to do some
> historical cooking with the appropriate environment and tools. So here's my
> question:
>
> How many of you have attempted to make your "camp cooking" period---not just
> the recipes and ingredients, but the fire irons, the pots and pans, the
> beehive ovens and the open . spits. etc?
Yes, Yes, Every year at Easter we hold a comping event, and many of us
experiment with this, and it is really a treat. Fire port of Iron and
clay, open spits have cooked everything from roast and vegies, to baked
cheese cakes and fritters/torts.
This year we hope to get some kind of oven, but type is undecided.
> It's extra work,
Not a lot if your camping anyway
> I really want to
> try a small event (perhaps our household of 40-odd) with no (or few) modern
> conveniences. Can anyone offer me some advice?
And we have held feast for 50 people with 6 cooks, a fire minder (very
important person, knows where hot, cool and medium heats are) and one
camp cook fire.
I'm the cook, Rudolf is the mean fire minder.
- ---------------------------------------
Rudolf von der Drau and Nicolette Dufay
Baron and Baroness, Stormhold
From: Bronwynmgn at aol.com
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 10:46:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Cooking in a Period Environment
At one of my first SCA events, the entire feast was cooked over a wood fire
set in a long, narrow trench to allow enough area for everything we needed.
I'm afraid I can't remember much of the menu except the gingered carrots and
poached pears. I do remember that it rained lightly most of the day, but not
enough to put the fire out. The downpour came, literally, as we took the
last pot off the fire and got it under the covered pavilion. We didn't have
to worry about keeping an eye on the fire after that. The nearby stream, on
the other hand...
We did not use period utensils - in fact, one of the biggest problems was the
fact that someone decided that refrigerator shelves would make good fire
grates. (Do NOT try this. They bend under the combination of weight and
heat and try to dump your food in the fire.) Also, things tend to heat
unevenly, so in rescuing the food that was about to fall into the fire,
somebody grabbed one side of the pot and said "Oh, it's cool, you won't need
a potholder" - which resulted in the guy on the other side getting a nasty
burn. So it is important to turn and stir pots frequently, and to make sure
there are plenty of potholders available and use them, even if you think it
might not be hot.
Also, on another list (I think) the point was brought up that wind will rob
the heat form your fire and increase cooking times. Wind breaks are a good
thing.
Bronwyn
From: Robin Hackett <robin.hackett at wadsworth.org>
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 12:44:43 -0500
Subject: Re: SC - Cooking in a Period Environment
Bronwyn wrote,
>We did not use period utensils - in fact, one of the biggest problems was the
>fact that someone decided that refrigerator shelves would make good fire
>grates. (Do NOT try this. They bend under the combination of weight and
>heat and try to dump your food in the fire.)
Oven shelves, on the other hand, worked for me for years. However, I don't
dig anymore. A combination of sand and ceramic tiles work well as a base to
build a fire on, without ruining the ground underneath. Our 15th century
set up (three spits and a pole to hang pots from) can still be driven into
the ground around the tiles and its much easier to control the fire when
you can reach it. :)
>Also, on another list (I think) the point was brought up that wind will rob
>the heat form your fire and increase cooking times. Wind breaks are a good
>thing.
Yes, they keep you from feeding charred yet uncooked chicken to the King!
Amazing I still cook after that debacle. :)
Leri
From: Debra Hense <debh at microware.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 17:15:32 -0500
Subject: SC - RE: sca-cooks V1 #182
There is a lady living in the DC area (originally from Calontir), who can
teach outdoor cookery. I know we flew her to Calontir to teach an all day
outdoor cookery class several years ago. Unfortunately, I cannot now
remember her name. Her husband was Sir Kintegern(sp?).
[Matilda of Tay - that's the cook's name. She teaches a wonderful all day outdoor cookery class.]
One of the things I most remember about her teaching is the phrase "let the
fire be small, clear and bright." And she showed us in the fire pit what
she thought the term meant. We cooked several things that day. A roast,
stew, pie, and bread over that fire pit that we dug. It was extremely
excellent.
Kateryn de Develyn
Who's only moved three times since then. I know the handout is in one of
these file boxes...
From: Mary Morman <memorman at oldcolo.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 13:39:59 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re: SC - outdoor cookery
On Tue, 1 Jul 1997, Debra Hense wrote:
> Matilda of Tay - that's the cook's name. She teaches a wonderful all day outdoor cookery class.
Mistress Mathilda Tay Gilchrest. Wonderful, talented lady. Only person i
have met with a laurel in Housewifery. But I guess I never thought of her
as being from Calontir...
Elaina
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:31:42 -0700 (PDT)From: rousseau at scn.org (Anne-Marie Rousseau)Subject: SC - Frumenty successes!Hi all from Anne-Marie.Just wanted to let you all know that the frumenty for 120 went over great! It was not gloppy and was not burned and bunches of people came up and said "THAT was frument? But it wasn't nasty!!" Hooray!What we did:Make the frumenty in decent sized batches (about 4 cups at a time) in my really good big Revereware pot with a great lid. Let it cool to room temp and stir in the egg as dictated in the original source. Seal the stuff in boil-in-the-bag seal-a-meal bags, about 2-3 cups per bag.On site, we used the big huge propane burners like they have for crab boils. HEated up water in our biggest pots and when it was at a boil, put two or three bags in the water. Boiled them for about...5 min? Until the bags were soft (ie the frumenty was not all clumpy any more). Dumped the scalding hot and totally cooked grain in big steamer inserts which we kept in the oven until all the grain was done, and we served.For the record, we served the frumenty with stewed mushrooms, also from Curye on Englishe, I believe.Every diner got a little pamphlet with the recipes, including the original sources.Thanks for all the great ideas! For us, at this particular event, the boily bags were a great idea.- --Anne-Marie.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Anne-Marie Rousseaurousseau at scn.orgSeattle, Washington
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 11:23:16 -0500 (CDT)
From: cole joan <jscole at ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Subject: SC - Re: seeking recipes (Outdoor Feast)
Brenna of Lyonsbane requested a couple of recipes that I don't have and
ideas for an outdoor feast in primitive circumstances. That I have done,
and I have recipes available at
http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~jscole/gosfeast.htm
Some dishes are period, some are not. Perhaps it will spark some ideas.
Hildegarde Stickerin
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 21:14:41 -0700
From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <acrouss at gte.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: seeking recipes (Outdoor Feast)
Hi all from Anne-Marie
this summer we started cooking exclusively on the fire. what a hoot! An
outdoor feast in "primitive" condiitons is a fun challenge!
we have found that we can do just about anything we would want to do in a
regular kitchen, with the possible exception of baking pies and breads (and
this only becuase we haven't perfected the techniques yet). Stuff that is
very well suited to the open fire concept include:
- --potages and stews...ie anything that you chop up and let boil or simmer
for long periods of time
- --anything yfryd...ie stuff you cook briefly in hot oil (spinach and fava
or garbanzo beans are two options)
- --herbolades...those eggy things with greens
- --rissoles and frytours. You're outside, so for the first time, deep frying
isnt a terrible ordeal!
- --ravioles are perfect! you can even make them ahad of time and freeze
them. Put them in the boiling broth on site, and voila!
Check out Pleyn Delit, that new Medieval Kitchen book, anything by Scully,
Maggie Black, etc. These are fairly good already-reconstructed recipes that
can get you started. Test them out at home first to be sure you like them
well enough to serve to paying customers :), and select recipes that dont
seem to be too fussy about heat (ie sauces that might curdle probably are
not suitable for fire, especially, if you're like me and havent figured out
the fine points yet)
have fun! cooking over a fire is a blast, especially when you've started it
yourself with flint and steel!
- --AM
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 07:30:41 EDT
From: WOLFMOMSCA at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Re: seeking recipes (Outdoor Feast)
Primitive Feasts are the best way to actually recreate period foods. They
didn't have gas ranges or food processors. They had fire. I've fed 450 off
one six-foot trench fire, using a piece of bent steel as an oven. Gives you a
real appreciation for what life was like for a real medieval cook.
Wolfmother
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 12:19:46 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Re: seeking recipes (Outdoor Feast)
For grins and in response to the message about baking bread on a griddle, I
tried baking a small cottage loaf this past weekend on a griddle covered by
a metal bowl, a high tech version of the cloche oven. I managed to charcoal
the bottom, perfectly brown the top and undercook the middle. The problem
was not having a feel for the heat source.
You can bake bread using anything from a flat rock to the covered cauldron,
but you need to experiment to find out what the heat source will do with the
particular oven. I'm expecting to lose about a dozen loafs before I get the
makeshift cloche to work. I certainly need to raise the griddle and I may
need to spread some cracked millet on the griddle to help insulate the
dough.
The recipe I'm using is:
Dissolve 1 teaspoon dry active yeast in 1 cup warm water. Let the yeast
start to froth (about 10 min.)
Sift 1 teaspoon salt with 2 cups of flour.
Stir the flour into yeast mixture 1/2 cup at a time.
Knead on a floured surface until the dough is smooth and elastic.
Form the dough into a ball.
Let rise about 30 minutes in a covered, greased bowl.
Shape your loaf.
Bake until the crust is brown and the loaf sounds hollow when you tap it on
the bottom (30 min to 1 hr).
As a word of advice, when making dough outdoors, keep some muslin squares
large enough to cover your bowls handy. Weighted corners are also a nice
idea. Bugs love fermentation.
Next, why not bake the bread in the cauldron? Bread keeps well for several
days. You do not have to bake daily. And you certainly do not need to bake
at the same time you are cooking your meal. It has been a very common
practice both by professional bakers and householders to bake bread twice a
week.
Now if you want fresh bread with the meal and a dying fire is a problem, try
a keyhole fire pit. Dig a circular pit about 18 inches in depth. Extend a
trench out from the pit (usually in