camp-ovens-msg – 1/15/08
Period and SCA camp ovens. Small ovens that can be used to bake food at
SCA and other re-enactment events.
NOTE: See also the files: ovens-msg, bread-msg, breadmaking-msg, flour-msg,
brd-mk-flat-msg, charcoal-msg, pizza-msg, trenchers-msg, pies-msg.
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NOTICE -
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.
Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).
Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: randalo at iia.org (Otelio Randall)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Aisha's Oven
Date: 2 Sep 1994 16:54:24 GMT
Unto my noble cousins, Greetings!
While at Pensic, many people asked Aisha (Aisha, Mom, or Donna, depending
on when one spoke to her) about the oven she used for our meals. If
Timothy of Arendale (sp) or one who can reach him can see this, please
relay this to him and tell him his friends from Caid requested this
information from me as well.
The oven used at Pensic was generation 2 of attempts to create a portable
version of one of Aisha's 2 permanent ovens in her back yard.
The following items are needed:
14 Cinder blocks (We are planning on replacing these with fireplace
bricks in generation 3)
3 sheets of grille 2'x4'
1 sheet of airconditioning/heating duct steel 3'x5 1/2'
slate roofing tiles (optional...we had stacks of them burried in Aisha's
back yard from when the house was originally built.)
Dig a rectangular pit 1 1/2' deep, the sides 1'1/2 and 3' wide
Place one grille over the pit and place 7 cinder blocks around it on top
of the grille, framing the pit. Dig an inclined trench about 1' long
between the two side cinderblocks (this is for rolling fresh logs into
the fire and for shovelling coals into the oven) If you have the slate
shingles, line the bottom and 3 sides of the pit with them (number of
shingles needed varies. Generation 1 took 8, Generation 2 took 12)
Place second grille on top of cinderblocks, then repeat framing with
remaining 7 cinderblocks and place third grille on top of this
the pit should look like this when viewed from above
___________________________________
| | | | | |
| |________|________|______| |
| | | |
|____| |____|
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
|____| |____|
Trench
Bend the sheet of steel to form an "L" and lay it on top of the oven, the
short end has to touch the middle grille. Pack sides and back of oven
with earth to help keep the sheet of steel from flapping off of the back
of the oven. Weigh the sheet down with something heavy (rocks, bricks,
younger siblings, your next-door neighbor's smalls) WARNING: Generation
2 does not have a chimney (I'm a musician and graphic artist, NOT an
engineer) thus, smoke tends to blow out into your face. A chimney may be
cut and placed in the top sheet of steel, or dug through the ground to
the back of the fire pit. (At Pensic, we left a gap in the top level ov
cinderblocks and in the earth holding the sheet metal down to let the
smoke out the back)
Aisha prepared two roasts, a leg of lamb, and had a pork shoulder in the
Generation 2 oven for our feast night. In the slightly smaller
Generation 1 oven, she prepared a 7 course dinner large enough to feed
herself, My Father, 3 sisters, my Grandmother, Great-Aunt, myself, my
wife and four friends of the family.
The sheet metal on top of the oven serves for toasting bread, heating
coffee pots (and burning the rear ends of unsuspecting men-at-arms).
I hope someone else has as much fun as Aisha and I had with it.
Grey.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period Bread Ovens When Camping
Date: Tue, 07 May 1996 09:04:31 -0700
Organization: Intel IT Technical Publications
Greetings from siobhan!
Master Edward le Carver (I know I didn't spell that right) has recently
made quite a craft of portable bread ovens in camp. Contact him at
edwoodguy at aol.com, or his best customer, Wulfric the mad Baker,
at madbaker at ix.netcom.com
We not only cooked all the bread for 20 people's dinner in this little
charmer recently, but also cooked cinnamon rolls on a pie-pan ;-) and
lozenges for an evening meal.
siobhan
From: Pat McGregor <patriciaX_O_McGregor at ccm.fm.intel.com>
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic,rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Brick bread oven?
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 08:49:28 -0700
Organization: Intel IT Technical Publications
Kris Dow wrote:
> I hope this is the right place to post this. I figured that the
> mostly likely people to know about this would be either you folks, or the
> people over on rec.org.sca, and you won the coin-toss. :) So, my
> question is: Does anyone have any information/know of good sources for
> information on building a small (hopefully not overly permanent :) bread
> oven outdoors? I've just recently discovered the fun of bread-baking,
> and was wondering about the possibility of building one in our backyard.
> I doubt, however, my parents would appreciate me putting up something
> meant to last a lifetime. :) Thanks. :)
Master Edward of the West has over the past year developed a portable
(if you can carry about 50 firebricks) bread oven which we have used
at several SCA events to cook bread and other things
in. You can contact him at "edwoodguy at aol.com", and perhaps
Richard Smiley (cc'd on this message) will pass this along to
Edward's accomplice Sean, who has more time to answer email. ;-)
The oven works quite well when laid properly in relation to the
prevailing breezes. I don't know any details of the construction
except that it involves the bricks and a big bucket of mud. ;-)
I have, however, both had bread baked in it and used it to reheat
dishes made in ceramic baking dishes.
pat
============================================================
PatriciaX_O_McGregor at ccm.fm.intel.com
Pat McGregor
IT Tech Pubs:Internet writer
From: "Susan J. Evans" <woofie at gte.net>
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 18:46:16 -0400
Subject: SC - SC-Camp ovens
You can go to a building supply store where they sell bricks and get an
almost ready-made oven. Buy a chimney liner. It's masonry - rectangular
and open only at the ends. Comes in various sizes. Get enough bricks or
whatever to close the ends up. Works great - gives you a flat botton for
your pans, plenty of space and solid construction so that the ashes don't
fly about very much and you don't have to worry about the top or sides
caving in on your dinner. And if you rake up the coals around it, you can
use the flat top as a warming shelf while you bake stuff in it.
Shoshonnah
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 10:57:15 +1100 (EST)
From: Charles McCathieNevile <charlesn at sunrise.srl.rmit.edu.au>
Subject: Re: SC - My Profile
On Sat, 27 Dec 1997, Mordonnade wrote:
> I would appreciate it gratefully if any of you have some good receipts for
> good hearty fare. I have not yet tried baking in camp, haven't figured out
> how to do it over an open fire.
>
> Mordonna
What you really need t do is find a mason who can build a small brick
dome with a floor. A good compromise is a miniature Nissen hut (those
semi-circle things like Gomer Pyle lived in) covered in dirt. Light a
fire in it, let it burn for a while, then sweep out the coals and put
your food in to bake. (This is moderately tricky. Sometimes it worked and
sometimes it didn't quite, and then we lost the oven (and the land it was
on). But this is how many medieval ovens worked)
Or take an oil drum (best one of the 4-gallon olive oil drums in the
supermarket), clean out the oil, and put a rack in it. Heap upthe coals
around it. To do a really good job, cut a strip out of the bottom, and
put in a steel plate about two inches into the thing (to stop the direct
heat). The heavier your container the better, as you can pre-heat it
properly.
Charles Ragnar
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 18:15:48 -0500
From: dangilsp at intrepid.net (Dan Gillespie)
Subject: SC - dutch oven baking
Howdy from West Virginia:
One trick that was used a lot in my Peace Corps days was to take the
largest covered pot that you could come by. Fairly similar in design to
dutch ovens, but they were made locally of cast aluminum. Anyway, you would
put either a layer of clean gravel or clean sand in the bottom to provide a
sort of a heat reservoir/ buffer against sudden increases in baking
temperature. The items to be baked were placed in tins on top of the sand.
Many batches of banana & pumpkin bread were made this way by me to help
soothe home sickness & take the edge off my sweet tooth. Most folks
probably don't realize just how much refined sugar that we consume in the
First world in our daily diets til you go where processed sugar is not a
part of the daily diet.
With fond thoughts of spicy frogs legs soup & sesame seed candy,
Antoine
Dan Gillespie
dangilsp at intrepid.net
Dan_Gillespie at usgs.gov
Martinsburg, West Virginia, USA
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 22:26:10 -0500
From: Virginia Legowik <keaeris at fred.net>
Subject: Re: SC - camp ovens
The ovens that I have built at Pennsic have been simple brick beehive
models covered with a heavy coating of clay/mud/straw about 4 inches thick
and basic fire brick floors. It takes 100 regular red bricks for the body
and enough fire brick to cover the floor itself. I suspect that good red
brick can be used for the floor, but I have never tried it, myself.
You build the fire inside, heat it up and get the right number of rhinoceri
inside and bake. Getting a rhinoceros in the oven is tricky work, but we
had Vissevald help when they got petulant.
The most diffuclt part of construction is getting a piece of level ground
to put the thing on at Pennsic. I generally make my own. Rain will wash
your oven daubing away, so covering the oven, or putting it under some kind
of fly is a good thing, provided you don't burn the thing down in the
process. You *really* need to lay everything out so that the coals are not
in the way as you load and unload, as well as keep a bucket of water around
to soak the ground and the unused coals at the end of the cooking.
I suppose I should find my pictures and scan them to put that up in my
firestuff directory, huh?
Fursa the firebug.
Questions and Comments should be
Directed to: keaeris at fred.net
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 13:08:14 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: [Fwd: SC - Re: pasties]
> >A Reply from Lady Lyddy about the pasties.
>
<deleted>
> > Of the receipes that I have, they can be fried, baked or boiled. But
> >they are all shaped the same as the pasty we know in Cornwall. The
> >Cornish cooked on the same iron plate with the domed lid that the Irish
> >used as late as the 17th century so we know they baked them.
>
> Interesting. How early do we know the Cornish, or other people for that
> matter, cooked on an iron plate with a domed lid and how do we know it?
The oven in question appears to be a derivative of the cloche oven. The
cloche oven consists of a clay bake stone covered with a clay bowl, usually
with a handle on the base of the bowl. An Athenian example can be seen in
the illustrations of Elizabeth David's English Bread and Yeast Cookery.
It may be that the oven design was introduced to the British Isles through
the ancient tin trade and was later reproduced in more durable iron, but
that is purely speculation.
Bear
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 19:14:00 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: [Fwd: SC - Re: pasties]
> At 1:08 PM -0600 3/6/98, Decker, Terry D. wrote:
> >The oven in question appears to be a derivative of the cloche oven. The
> >cloche oven consists of a clay bake stone covered with a clay bowl, usually
> >with a handle on the base of the bowl. An Athenian example can be seen in
> >the illustrations of Elizabeth David's English Bread and Yeast Cookery.
>
> If I understand you correctly, the oven tells us nothing about the shape of
> what was baked in it, other than giving a maximum size. I had thought from
> Lady Lyddy's post that it might be something the pasty was somehow formed
> around or shaped in, so that its shape would support her assertion (if I
> understand it) that period pasties looked like modern Cornish pasties.
>
> David/Cariadoc
You are correct. The shape of the oven has nothing to do with the shape of
the contents other than it must fit within the bell. The illustrations I've
seen of the cloche ovens suggest that the diameter covered would be about
two feet at maximum and the bells were generally oval rather than circular.
Bear
Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 13:35:06 -0700
From: Librarian <betpulib at ptd.net>
Subject: SC - Re: Bee Hive Oven
Bob & Bobbe Crain wrote:
>> I have been interested in building a bee hive oven. Can any one help
>> me find a reference to the proper design and construction of a bee hive
>> oven? Thank you.
>> bob
> Try Regia Anglorum's web-page far an excellent article and
>illustrations/photos of a bee-hive oven, plus a step-by step account of
>how one was constructed from historic finds, and used at re-enactments
>to bake bread.
I am currently working on a simpler version, which, though not
historically correct, may well be easier to construct and/or transport
and re-use. It involves a large clay flower pot ($10.00-$20.00 in my neck
of the woods) with a 6-8 inch hole knocked in the top rim and a smaller
one with the entire bottom knocked off (about $1.50). Place the large
one upside down in the fire-pit and the smaller one in the side hole,
with this 'mouth' facing the interior of the fire-pit. Cover with damp
earth and top with sod taken from the fire-pit, leaving the hole in the
top uncovered ('Bread and Salt' refers to the hole in the top being used
as a "burner" in Eastern Europe. In non-slavic areas I gather this was
not necessarily the case. For a cooking burner for pots, tho, the hole
would need to be larger, and you would need an alternate 'vent'. Don't be
alarmed if fire shoots out the hole. I surmise this is normal). Build a
fire inside. Let it get hot enough to mostly dry the mud. When ready to
bake, rake out the coals and put your bread dough or other item inside
(on a flat rock, bakestone, or pan unless you like to eat cinders. I
can't see why you couldn't rest the oven on one a paving flint). Allow to
bake as needed.
I havn't tested this, mind you, but have read reports that the flower-pot
works well on it's own, and it was a small leap for my mind to make it
into a bee-hive oven. If it ever stops raining I am going to test this
thoery, to see if it works. It's worth a shot, and I havn't much to loose
except time and 2 clay flower pots! I have shamelessly stolen the
flower-pot idea from an article in Stefan's Florilegium, a gathering of
history-related re-enactment articles, mostly from the SCA newsgroups,
containing useful information. One file is on construction bake ovens,
and there are some excellent ideas. Your search engine should be able to
find the Florilegium for you, if you are not already familliar with it.
L. Herr-Gelatt/Aoife
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 17:13:30 EDT
From: LrdRas <LrdRas at aol.com>
Subject: SC - Portable Ovens
msca at c2i2.com writes:
<< I am trying to come up with a reasonable portable version of oven to bake
and cook at Estrella next year. >>
In Elizabeth Davies bread and yeast book there are several illustrations of
"portable " ovens. She also describes them. Surprisingly they are not as large
as you might think. :-)
Ras
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 20:41:42 -0500
From: "popdan" <popdan at airnet.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Portable Ovens
A simple portable oven is a cardboard box the size you need to bake in
covered with aluminum foil inside and out. You will also need to cover the
lid with foil. Place food inside box and cover with lid. make a bed of hot
coals and place box on it and then arange a few on top. Experiment with the
type food you will be cooking to get it down right. It really works.
Catrin Skynith
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 23:15:10 -0400
From: mermayde at juno.com (Christine A Seelye-King)
Subject: Re: SC - Portable Ovens
On Thu, 14 May 1998 20:41:42 -0500 "popdan" <popdan at airnet.net> writes:
>A simple portable oven is a cardboard box the size you need to bake in
>covered with aluminum foil inside and out. <snip>
>Catrin Skynith
A few years ago at Pennsic, we used these portable cardboard box ovens,
and they were great! They were made of standard filing boxes, lined with
foil, and had wires poked through the sides to create a rack. The lid
had a hole cut in the top with heavy celophane across it, for a window,
and we used an aluminum disposable square pan (like a brownie pan)for the
coals underneath. I baked peach cobbler in them for our Known world
party, and they came out just great. I was very impressed. We even used
a couple of changes of coals, and used them for several hours for
subsequent pans. No charring or even browning of the box.
Mistress Christianna MacGrain, OP, Meridies
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 01:00:40 -0500
From: allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON)
Subject: Re: SC - Bread
Re the bee hive ovens: Mistress Catarina von Schilling had one we used
in her camp at Pennsic for her German cooking class. There are articles
is several magazines within the last year on Egyption bread and oven
experiments. Large ceramic or pottery flowerpots are available and much
cheaper than they used to be. If you don't want it to look like a
flowerpot, use some clay on the outside to get a beehive look to it.
Hope this is food or thought.
Lady Allison
allilyn at juno.com