mushrooms-msg - 9/22/11
Period mushrooms. Recipes. Growing and collecting mushrooms in period and today.
NOTE: See also the files: 23-Ger-Mushrm-art, capers-msg, herbs-cooking-msg, marrow-msg, nuts-msg, spices-msg.
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From: "Philip W. Troy" <troy at asan.com>
Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 13:00:18 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - Mushrooms!
Jeanne Stapleton wrote:
> Okay: I got a five-lb flat of fresh mushrooms in lovely shape as
> part of a bonus for working with the SCA group at the public TV
> station this week. Since I'm not going to eat that much stroganoff
> in the next week or so, I'd like some suggestions/recipes/sources on:
> - interesting ways to pickle
> - interesting snack/appetizer things for a Pelican vigil next Friday
> - things other than stroganoffing or sauteeing
For what it's worth, I served this at an EK 12th Night a couple of years
ago:
_Funges in Pasty_
"Mushrooms of one night be the best and they be little and red within
and closed at the top; and they must be peeled and then washed in hot water and parboiled and if you wish to put them in a pasty add oil, cheese, and spice
powder."
Le Menagier de Paris, translated by Eileen Powers, pub. Harcourt, Brace,
New York, 1928
A pasty is a great way to cook almost anything moist, as the pastry case seals in any juices which would otherwise escape during cooking. The exact nature of the dough is fairly unimportant; most likely it would have been a hot water/shortening dough such as are used in modern English raised pork pies.
Pasties are always free-standing; without a pan to shape them. Classic
shapes are turnovers and double-crust rounds, like large round ravioli.
They can be, and were, either baked or deep-fried.
I suspect le Menagier is talking about some other mushroom than our
standard champignon; the need for peeling and parboiling suggests some
level of toxicity. We don't usually have to worry about that unless we
hunt up our own mushrooms.
For eight servings:
Eight frozen empanada wrappers (Goya makes cool yellow ones, 10 per pack!) or one recipe standard short piecrust, divided into eight and
rolled out into thin circles, or one frozen 9-inch pie-shell,
partially prebaked.
12 ounces, drained weight, canned sliced mushrooms plus one ounce soaked
dried wild mushrooms, chopped and sauteed (we used porcinis)
OR
1 1/4 pounds fresh mushrooms, sliced and sauteed
2-3 Tbs extra virgin olive oil
1/2 cup ricotta cheese or equivalent in cheese of your choice
2 Tbs grated parmesan cheese
2 tsp quatre ep=EDce or mixed pepper, ginger, nutmeg, and cloves
salt and pepper
3-4 cups vegetable oil for deep-frying, if you're going that way
Make the filling. Mix your mushrooms with the cheese, the olive oil,
and the spice powder. If you use premixed spice powder, remember it
probably already has some pepper. Season with salt and, if necessary,
pepper. If you're using a commercial baked pie shell, add one or two
beaten eggs to hold the filling together.
If using frozen wrappers, follow package directions for thawing and
keep covered with a slightly damp towel. If you're using homemade wrappers do the same.
Fill two or three wrappers at a time, keeping the rest covered. If
necessary, brush inside edges with water or beaten egg to seal. Pinch
shut any cracks the same way; a rub with a wet fingertip erases them.
Crimp the edges with fingers or a fork (optional). Fried pasties need to
be well sealed or they'll explode and fill your oil with brown curds.
Baked ones are easier, but not as good. Any leftover beaten eggs can be
used to glaze the baked version.
Deep-fry at 350 degrees F, til golden, or bake at 375 degrees F for 25 minutes or until a knife point comes out clean.
G. Tacitus Adamantius
From: Uduido at aol.com
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 21:35:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Mushrooms!
<< For what it's worth, I served this at an EK 12th Night a couple of years ago:
_Funges in Pasty_ >>
I can vouch for this recipe. I redacted it several years ago and the Shire
now sells them from our period food booth when we set up at mundane
(translate: public) events. They always sell out! Well worth the effort.
P.S. Thanks for fine tuning this recipe for me! :-)
Lord Ras
From: "Sue Wensel" <swensel at brandegee.lm.com>
Date: 2 May 1997 13:09:28 -0500
Subject: Re: SC - Mushrooms!
> Okay: I got a five-lb flat of fresh mushrooms in lovely shape as
> part of a bonus for working with the SCA group at the public TV
> station this week. Since I'm not going to eat that much stroganoff
> in the next week or so, I'd like some suggestions/recipes/sources on:
>
> -interesting ways to pickle
> - interesting snack/appetizer things for a Pelican vigil next Friday
> - things other than stroganoffing or sauteeing
>
> Countess Berengaria de Montfort de Carcassonne, OP
> Barony of Caerthe
> Kingdom of the Outlands
Dining with William Shakespear has a wonderful mushroom dish, not good as a
finger food, but delicious. I've modified the redaction a little, to suit my
own tastes (while not an Italian persona, I believe that one can never have
too much garlic or too many onions in a dish). I use about equal amounts of
onion and mushrooms.
Saute the onions and garlic in about two sticks of butter (more for more
onions -- this is based on a 12 oz. pkg of mushrooms).
When the onions are clear, not brown, add the mushrooms.
When the mushrooms are totally wet and just beginning to soften, add enough
breadcrumbs (very fine) to absorb the butter. I usually remember to add any
spices right about now. I like to use mace, salt, nutmeg, pepper, ginger, and
cinnamon; basil, oregano, salt, and pepper; etc. If you are very experienced
in cooking, you can develop spice combinations you like.
When the butter is absorbed by the breadcrumbs, then add enough white wine to
make a slightly thinner than necessary sauce. Cook for about 10 minutes to
cook off the alcohol.
This is sufficiently yummy that my mom, who is hopelessly mundane, wanted the
recipe.
Derdriu
From: Emily Epstein <epsteine at spot.Colorado.EDU>
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 14:34:17 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Mushrooms!
Greetings from Alix Mont de fer.
On Fri, 2 May 1997, Countess Berengaria wrote:
> Okay: I got a five-lb flat of fresh mushrooms in lovely shape as
> part of a bonus for working with the SCA group at the public TV
> station this week. Since I'm not going to eat that much stroganoff
> in the next week or so, I'd like some suggestions/recipes/sources on:
> -interesting ways to pickle
> - interesting snack/appetizer things for a Pelican vigil next Friday
> - things other than stroganoffing or sauteeing
Here are a couple of recipes that I've served at events in the Shire of
Spinning Winds some years ago. The pickled mushrooms became sort of a
signature dish of mine-- they always seemed to go over well. These are
taken from my files with very little alteration- they were tinkered with
at Shire Cooks' Guild meetings over the course of several months before
the feast. Most of the work on the Funges was done by Lady Lisbet, who
probably has a surname by now, but I don't know what it is. For powder
fort we just used my usual formula (I keep it on hand, ready to use.)
Hurts and Promises, Feb. 17, 1990, Shire of Spinning Winds.
PICKLED MUSHROOMS (Elinor Fettiplace's Receipt Book p. 173)
Take your buttons, clean ym with a spunge & put ym in cold water as you
clean ym, then put ym dry in a stewpan & shake a handfull of salt over ym,
yn stew ym in their own liquor till they are a little tender; then strain
ym from ye liquor & put ym upon a cloath to dry till they are quite cold.
Make your pickle before you do your mushrooms, yt it may be quite cold
before you put ym in. The Pickle must be made with white-wine,
white-pepper, quarter'd nutmeg, a blade of mace, & a race of ginger.
Brine:
1 c. Rhine wine (or other white wine)
12 white peppercorns
1/8 t. grated ginger
1 nutmeg, broken
approx. 1/8 t. mace
Combine wine and spices in a saucepan and bring to a boil. Simmer ca.10
minutes. Cool.
8 oz. mushrooms
1/2 t. salt (In period, they probably used more salt)
Put mushrooms in a heavy saucepan (Visions works well). Sprinkle with
salt. Cook over high heat, stirring frequently and stew them in their own
juices. until they're tender and there's almost no juice left (about 10
min.) Drain off excess mushroom juice. Cool. Pack into jars, cover with
brine, and cover tightly.
Served at Morgana's Althing 1993, Shire of Spinning Winds
FUNGES
Take funges and pare hem clene, and dyce hem; take leke and shrede hym
small, and do hym to seeth in gode broth. Colour it with safroun, and do
therinne powdour fort.
1 lb mushrooms
1 cup beef or pork broth
1/2 teaspoon powder forte
2 oz. leeks
Clean mushrooms and leek. Cut mushrooms in a rough dice, chop leek finely.
Add spices and broth. Bring to a boil and simmer 5 min.
Hieatt, Constance B. & Butler, Sharon, eds. Curye on Inglysch. London:
Oxford University Press for the Early English Text Society, 1985. iv 12 p.100
Do not freeze- texture gets nasty
Course 1 - 1 recipe/4 tables (32 people)
I hope you find these useful.
Ly. Alix Mont de Fer (m.k.a. Emily Epstein)
Shire of Caer Galen, Outlands
epsteine at spot.colorado.edu
From: Marvette Gleason <mgleason at corp.ultratech.com>
Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 10:22:00 -0700
Subject: SC - Mushrooms! -Reply
One thing I really love and freezes well: (while not necessarily period it
is a wonderful recipe)
3 lbs Sliced Mushrooms
1 bag of Colombo Stuffing Bread Crumbs (in the bread section or make your own)
4-10 cloves of fresh garlic finely chopped
1 lb butter
1 cup red wine
1 cup Shredded Parmesan Cheese (more or less if desired)
1/2 cup Finely Chopped Parsley
salt & pepper
2 packages of puff pastry sheets
1 beaten egg
Preheat oven to 400 degrees.
Remove puff pastry from packages and let thaw.
Melt butter in very large skillet. Add Garlic and saute until lightly
browned. Add mushrooms, wine and salt & pepper, saute until mushrooms
are cooked. Add parsley and stir, then add bread crumbs and parmesan, mix
thoroughly. Check seasoning - add more if necessary.
Cut puff pastry sheets into three even strips (along the fold lines).
Roll each piece out width-wise until almost double in width. Put mushroom
mixture lengthwise onto the puff pastry and roll like a burrito. Seal the
edge with a little of the beaten egg. Cut each roll into about 8 pieces.
Bake at 400 degrees until pastry is golden brown (approx. 10 - 15 minutes)
(for tips look at the sausage roll recipe on the puff pastry box.)
From: LadyBetta at aol.com
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 22:22:01 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Mushrooms! and a recipe (no documentation)
This is a recipe given to me by Genrose of the Incipient shire of Eir Tun
Mushrooms
Butter
Parmesan cheese grated (Krafts works well)
Preheat oven to 350 degrees
clean the mushrooms
carefully remove the stems, save these for other uses.
cut flutes in the mushroom caps, being careful not to cut thru the bottom
generously cover in butter
generously sprinkle with Parmesan cheese
Bake at 350 degrees for 15 to 20 minutes
Hope you like it:)
From: Lasairina at aol.com
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 23:53:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Mushrooms!
Countess Berengaria de Montfort de Carcassonne, OP writes:
> Okay: I got a five-lb flat of fresh mushrooms in lovely shape
*snip* I'd like some suggestions/recipes/sources on:
>
> -interesting ways to pickle
> - interesting snack/appetizer things for a Pelican vigil next Friday
> - things other than stroganoffing or sauteeing
You might try stuffed mushroom caps - chop the stems very finely, mix with
grated cheese (Parm, Romano, and/or Sharp Cheddar) minced garlic, S & P, then
stuff the caps and broil until browned. There is also a wonderful mushroom
cheese tart recipe in Pleyn Delit that can either be individual tarts or a
pie...you might also try drying them for future use.
Lassar Fhina
From: Lasairina at aol.com
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 00:02:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Mushrooms!
Philip Troy writes:
> I suspect le Menagier is talking about some other mushroom than our
> standard champignon; the need for peeling and parboiling suggests some
> level of toxicity. We don’t usually have to worry about that unless we
> hunt up our own mushrooms.
Damn! Sorry about the first posting mess-up....I meant to say....
Actually, the parboiling is necessary for even the common mushroom we use
today. If this step is left out, the mushroom juice will cause your dough to
be extremely soggy. But parboiling them for a few minutes will take most of
the extra juice out.
Lassar Fhina
From: Deloris Booker <dbooker at freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 22:09:10 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: SC - Re: elinor fettiplace's receipt book
"Elinor Fettiplace's Receipt Book" - edited by Hilary Spurling. Penguin
Books, 1986, 0-14-046956-7. $Can18.99, I have no idea of the US$ price.
YIS
Aldreada of the Lakes (D. Booker, Blue Castle Books, Calgary Alberta
Canada)
On Fri, 2 May 1997, Dottie Elliott wrote:
>
> Emily Epstein 5/2/97 3:34 PM
>
> >Elinor Fettiplace's Receipt Book
>
> What is this source? Any suggestions on where I could obtain a copy?
>
> Clarissa
From: dragon7777 at juno.com (Susan A Allen)
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 21:37:30 -0700
Subject: SC - Re: Mushrooms & Herbal Oils
Mushrooms can be frozen, if they are sauted first.
I usually slice them and then saute in a good olive oil
until the water is cooked out. This will keep in the
refrigerator for a couple of weeks or frozen.
A friend of mine cooks them this way with garlic, but
I am allergic to the stinking rose.
Herbal Oils, you must have totaly DRY herbs for
getting the flavor into the oil, I don't mean dried herbs, I
mean no surface moisture at all, a hair dryer works, a
warm oven (150 - 200 ) or a drying rack (very period dried stuff)
work well to get that moisture off
Susan
dragon7777 at juno.com
From: "Philip W. Troy" <troy at asan.com>
Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 01:17:04 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - Mushrooms!
Lasairina at aol.com wrote:
> Philip Troy writes:
> > I suspect le Menagier is talking about some other mushroom than our
> > standard champignon; the need for peeling and parboiling suggests some
> > level of toxicity. We don=92t usually have to worry about that unless we
> > hunt up our own mushrooms.
> Damn! Sorry about the first posting mess-up....I meant to say....
> Actually, the parboiling is necessary for even the common mushroom we use
> today. If this step is left out, the mushroom juice will cause your dough to
> be extremely soggy. But parboiling them for a few minutes will take most of
> the extra juice out.
> Lassar Fhina
Yes, and much of the flavor too. I agree that the common cultivated
mushroom is a juicy beast, but I've had a fair amount of success with
sauteeing them before using. This has the advantage of concentrating the
juice in the pan and improving the flavor of the mushrooms. Sometimes
this can take a while. One trick I sometimes use when I'm in a hurry is
to take the sliced mushrooms, bundle them up in a clean kitchen towel,
and squeeze them until most of the juice drains out. You need a bit of
hand strength for this. I do this right over the saute pan. The juice
cooks down quite quickly, almost to a glaze, and then you add the
mushrooms. They cook in about 1/4 of the time.
Adamantius
From: Uduido at aol.com
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 17:58:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SC - Mushroom Recipe
<< You might try stuffed mushroom caps - chop the stems very finely, mix with
grated cheese (Parm, Romano, and/or Sharp Cheddar) minced garlic, S & P, then
stuff the caps and broil until browned. There is also a wonderful mushroom
cheese tart recipe in Pleyn Delit that can either be individual tarts >>
I found this on a wrinkled piece of paper in my "Feast Recipes" folder. Enjoy
MUSHROOMS y-Baked
100 mushrooms, quartered
5 lbs. cheddar cheese, grated
Ground Black Pepper
Ground Grains of Paradise
Ground Ginger
Olive Oil
Make 50 pastry shells by rolling the dough and cutting out fifty 4 inch
circles. Flute the edges of the dough circles. Place 8 mushroom quarters in a
circular pattern in each pastry shell. Sprinkle with olive oil. Divide cheese
evenly between pastries. Sprinkle a pinch of each spice on each pastry. Bake
in a 350 degree F. oven until pastry is golden brown and cheese is melted and
bubbly.
Redaction by Lord Ras
Lord Ras
From: Uduido at aol.com
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 18:04:29 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Mushrooms!
<< I suspect le Menagier is talking about some other mushroom than our
> standard champignon;>>
Why? The Champignon has been under cultivation for centuries.
<<the need for peeling and parboiling suggests some
> level of toxicity. >>
Actually, until very recently it was standard practice to "peel" mushrooms.
Rather than suggesting toxicity, it rather suggests that the standard
pre-modern era practice of growing mushrooms in horse manure and straw would
dictate removal of the "skin". Also the boiling of mushrooms ironically would
remove lots of moisture from them.
Lord Ras
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 23:39:57 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - Mushrooms!
Uduido at aol.com wrote:
> << I suspect le Menagier is talking about some other mushroom than our
> > standard champignon;>>
>
> Why? The Champignon has been under cultivation for centuries.
True. Cultivation began in the Middle Ages, but only reached
"industrial" proportions in the eighteenth century. My reason for
suggesting Le Menagier wasn't talking about cultivated agaricus
mushrooms was the fact that he refers to the best ones as being red.
> <<the need for peeling and parboiling suggests some level of toxicity.>>
>
> Actually, until very recently it was standard practice to "peel" mushrooms.
Until about the 1950's, in fact.
> Rather than suggesting toxicity, it rather suggests that the standard
> pre-modern era practice of growing mushrooms in horsemanure and straw would
> dictate removal of the "skin". Also the boiling of mushrooms ironically would
> remove lots of moisture from them.
You may be right. However, some mushrooms are still grown in horse
manure, and many of the same "authorities" that once recommended peeling
them now recommend wiping them with a cloth, rather than washing them.
And yes, the boiling of mushrooms would certainly cause them to lose
moisture, assuming they were drained, but this also causes them to lose
much of their flavor. And if it is a coincidence that the recommendation
to peel and parboil the mushrooms in the recipe is the same as that made
for many wild mushrooms with a low (but not deadly) level of toxicity,
I don't think it is a big one. I still believe that champignons are not
necessarily what are being talked about in this case.
Adamantius
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 00:23:31 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - Mushrooms!
Uduido at aol.com wrote:
> Are there any references that you know of that might
> mention Portabella mushrooms (My favorite) as being used in period?
>
> Lord Ras
Answer up front: I don't know. But let's reason a little bit here and
see what we can deduce. Stop me if I get stupid here; it's late.
I read in the Larousse Gastronomique (for what that's worth) that
champignons are a cultivated variety of the agaricus field mushroom. The
very fact that they have been cultivated over several centuries implies
that they may now be genetically a bit different from the wild agaricus
mushroom, although a bit similar, as well. Wild agaricus mushrooms
include the horse mushrooms mentioned in Apicius, and the flat field
mushroom that is today an almost essential part of the classic Irish
"fry" or mixed grill. These two mushrooms may in fact be the same thing.
I'm probably setting myself up for trouble here, but generally
vegetables that are referred to as "horse" are wild, larger, and
harvested older than their non-horsey counterparts: horse mushrooms,
horse beans, horse chestnuts, etc.
Now. Larousse goes on to say that champignons come in two types: blanc
and blonde. Champignons blanc are what we generally see in the
supermarket in plastic tubs. Champignons blonde are, depending on their
size, known as Crimini mushrooms when small, and Portobellos when large.
(For those unfamiliar with these mushrooms, Criminis and Portobellos are
shaped roughly like the standard champignon, the main difference being
the color, which is a bit darker, ranging from golden to brown, and a
sort of scaly or feathery-looking upper surface.)
My feeling is that Portobellos probably occur late in period if at all,
and the fact that they and Criminis are commonly known in the U.S.A. by
Italian names is just a quirk of marketing, since they were probably
developed in France originally. (If anyone doubts the power of marketing
to cloud an issue, I offer a bounty for any fisherman/woman who can
catch a scrod for me. Who wants to eat a hake?)
I doubt you will find a period reference to Portobellos, at least under
that name. But, you can probably have a good time trying some of the
Roman recipes for horse mushrooms using Portobellos as a substitute.
Personally, at the risk of being off-topic, I feel that just about the
ultimate hedonistic experience is a broiled portobello filled with
perfectly scrambled eggs and topped with a hit of madeira demiglaze
sauce. Not period by a long shot, but at that point, who cares...?
Adamantius
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 00:12:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Mushrooms!
This is Elizabeth posting on Cariadoc's account.
Adamantius gives one version of the Menagier de Paris mushrooms in pastry;
our version, based on Janet Hinson's translation, is:
Mushroom Pastries (Menagier p. M-25): Mushrooms of one night are the best,
and are small and red inside, closed above; and they should be peeled, then
wash in hot water and parboil; if you wish to put them in pastry add oil,
cheese, and powdered spices.
ine Powder of Spices (Menagier p. M-40): Take an ounce and a drachm of
white ginger, a quarter-ounce of hand-picked cinnamon, half a quarter-ounce
each of grains and cloves, and a quarter-ounce of rock sugar, and grind to
powder.
1 lb mushrooms
9 oz cheese (parmesan)
1 T olive oil
spice powder: 1/4 t cinnamon, 1/8 t cloves, 1 t ginger, 1/8 t grains of
paradise, 1/4 t sugar
9" pie crust
Slice mushrooms and parboil (put into boiling water and cook two minutes);
drain. Grate or chop cheese. Grind grains of paradise and mix up spices.
Mix mushrooms, 2/3 of cheese, spices and oil. Put mixture into crust, put
remaining cheese over. Makes scant 9" pie. Bake about 20-25 minutes at 350
degrees.
Note that the word Eileen Powers translates "pasty" Janet Hinson gives as
pastry; I gather the French is ambiguous. "Powdered spices" is pretty
vague, but since the Menagier gives his own spice powder mix later on in
the book, we used that. I agree with Adamantius that the mushrooms are not
ours (red inside, closed above?) but find it hard to believe that the
problem is toxicity: maybe the skins just weren't good.
Elizabeth of Dendermonde/Betty Cook
From: arianwen at juno.com (Valerie A Carson)
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 03:34:51 EST
Subject: Re: SC - Mushrooms!
On Sun, 04 May 1997 00:15:04 EDT allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON)
writes:
>On Fri, 2 May 1997 23:53:47 -0400 (EDT) Lasairina at aol.com writes:
>>...you might also try drying them for future use.
>>
>>Lassar Fhina
>
>Have you tried this sucessfully? I can make fine beef jerky in my
>convection oven, and would be happy to know that the same procedure
>would work for mushrooms. Do you do anything other than slice them?
>
>Allison
The info I have on dehydrating mushrooms says to clean mushrooms and
slice, chop or dry whole. Also, to be sure to rinse, but do not soak
because the mushrooms will absorb water (quite contrary to your goal),
and that they should be soaked in cold water for 30 minutes to rehydrate.
I am fairly new to this whole dehydrating thing and haven't tried
mushrooms yet myself, let me know how it turns out if you do it.
Arianwen
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 08:35:40 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - Mushrooms!
david friedman wrote:
> This is Elizabeth posting on Cariadoc's account.
> I agree with Adamantius that the mushrooms are not
> ours (red inside, closed above?) but find it hard to believe that the
> problem is toxicity: maybe the skins just weren't good.
>
> Elizabeth of Dendermonde/Betty Cook
As I said, my only evidence that toxicity might have been an issue is
the fact that the instructions to peel and/or parboil are present in
modern recipes for wild mushrooms in which some level of toxicity
exists. Obviously if the mushrooms are deadly, the recipe specifics
don't matter much unless you are attempting suicide.
Dickenson and Lucas' "Colour Dictionary of Mushrooms" lists several
hundred species of wild mushroom. Of the varieties that are considered
edible, peeling, removal of the base, and/or parboiling is recommended
for perhaps 30 - 40% of them, to limit possible toxic reactions.
Avoiding overindulgence in some of them is also recommended for the same
reason.
Also, as previously said, this may be a coincidence. On the other hand,
it may not. I don't see how we could possibly know for sure.
With regard to your use of Le Menagier's fine spice powder, I confess
that this is what I get for failing to take the entire work as a unit.
When I did my redaction, I simply forgot that a recipe for fine spice
powder is present in Le Menagier. I must try your version of the spice
powder in future.
Toodle-Pip!
G. Tacitus
Adamantius
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 08:49:03 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - Mushrooms!
Valerie A Carson wrote:
> The info I have on dehydrating mushrooms says to clean mushrooms and
> slice, chop or dry whole. Also, to be sure to rinse, but do not soak
> because the mushrooms will absorb water (quite contrary to your goal),
> and that they should be soaked in cold water for 30 minutes to rehydrate.
> I am fairly new to this whole dehydrating thing and haven't tried
> mushrooms yet myself, let me know how it turns out if you do it.
>
> Arianwen
Sometimes even rinsing mushrooms will cause them to absorb a significant
amount of moisture. Some people recommend wiping them with a slightly
damp cloth. This is obviously more labor-intensive than some people are
prepared to get, and it is up to you how retentive you allow yourself to
become. For what it is worth, the amount of outside moisture introduced
onto the mushrooms seems to be in inverse proportion the the good
appearance of the final product: they oxidize very quickly when wet.
I once worked with a chef who would not allow wild mushrooms to be
washed in any way. He used to say, "People eat these things because
they taste like the forest. If you wash the forest off them, then what's
the point?" He may have something there. Or, alternately, he may be a
dangerous lunatic. I worked with the man, so I'm biased...
Anyway, I sometimes rinse mushrooms one at a time, holding them in such
a way that the gills or tubes (depending on species) don't get wet.
Adamantius
From: mfgunter at tddeng00.fnts.com (Michael F. Gunter)
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 09:11:06 -0500
Subject: Re: SC - Mushrooms!
Also, pan frying them in a heavy skillet with no oil and very high heat will
cook/dry them very well and give a very earthy browning to the mushroom.
Gunthar
From: Lasairina at aol.com
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 16:57:46 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Mushrooms!
> Have you tried this sucessfully? I can make fine beef jerky in my
> convection oven, and would be happy to know that the same procedure would
> work for mushrooms. Do you do anything other than slice them?
>
> Allison
Yes, several times. We hiked a lot when I was a kid, and my mother
dehydrated everything she could - much lighter to carry! She'd wipe them
clean then dry them in a dehydrator (big box full of trays with a fan on the
the back) in less than a day. They store forever if you keep them out of the
air (we used mason jars at home, baggies on the trail...)
One of my fellow Guild Mistress' swears by drying mushrooms of all kinds.
She buys them on sales and dries them on big flat baskets on her porch.
Haven't tried it that way yet myself, but I don't see why it shouldn't work
as well.
Then just reconstitute in water or broth and use as normal...
Good luck!
Lassar Fhina
From: Emily Epstein <epsteine at spot.Colorado.EDU>
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 08:56:38 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Mushrooms!
On Tue, 6 May 1997, LYN M PARKINSON wrote:
>>One of my fellow Guild Mistress' swears by drying mushrooms of all kinds.
>>She buys them on sales and dries them on big flat baskets on her porch.
> ... I throw out more mushrooms, because they go bad before I can
> finish them. Eventually, you run out of freezer space, and I'm not
> thrilled with the texture of thawed sauteed mushrooms.
Actually, if you transfer the mushrooms to a paper bag in your fridge when
you first get them, any that you don't use in time will dry instead of
liquify. Of course, you do have to remember to empty out all those bags of
dried mushrooms from time to time, but it doesn't any extra time or space,
and you don't have to make industial-sized purchases (unless you want to,
of course)
Alix Mont de fer (m.k.a. Emily Epstein)
Shire of Caer Galen, Outlands
From: Deloris Booker <dbooker at freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 14:44:59 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Mushrooms! -Reply
Yes the mushrooms that have petrified in the frig are perfectly useable in
soups, stews, chili, etc. - anything with a sufficient amount of liquid to
rehydrate them. In fact they even work well in my favourite one dish
no brain dinner - meat (chicken pieces, eye of round, whatever) plus
potatoes plus at least 2 vegetables that can be roasted plus a quartered
onion - put in covered roasing pan with about .5 inch water at 350 degrees
F. until cooked - go off and do mail, start laundry, read email, play with
kids or whatever while dinner is cooking. Delicious, never fails, uses
up all sorts of tag ends from the frig.
Aldreada
From: Tom Brady <tabrady at mindspring.com>
Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 07:50:13 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - Mushrooms!
At 08:00 PM 5/6/97 EDT, Allison wrote:
>I suppose that dried mushrooms,
>reconstituted, would saute well enough? I love the fresh ones raw in
>salad or in dip, but they get yucky fast. No more plastic in the
>humidifier bin for my mushrooms! That'll make room for the potatoes....
Not only will reconstituted dried mushrooms saute well, you should save the
water used to reconstitute them (as is commonly done for porcini or
shitake), filter it to remove any debris (I pour it though a paper towel)
and add it to sauces - there's great mushroom flavor to be had in the water.
It was mentioned earlier, but I second the motion on dry-sauteeing
mushrooms. I first read about it in the lovely (thoroughly modern) cookbook
"From a Breton Garden." I typically use just standard white mushrooms, but
have tried Crimini mushrooms as well (not that I noticed much difference,
besides the price). For best results, I suggest mincing the mushrooms
finely before sauteeing, then adding to a dry saute pan. The water in the
mushrooms will be drawn out, then they will saute in their own water. When
the lot is dry again, you're done - it takes about 4-5 minutes, all told. I
have used this technique to "beef up" vegetarian dishes (so to speak) where
I replace meat with mushrooms. This method also helps make an incredible
cheese and mushroom souffle.
- -Duncan, who notes the woeful lack of diacriticals in standard ASCII
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Brady tabrady at mindspring.com SCA: Duncan MacKinnon of Tobermory
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 00:50:58 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - Mosserouns yflorys?
Alys of Foxdale wrote:
> > Now if only we could thresh out the whole mosserouns yflorys issue, I
> > could die a happy man ; ).
> Well, now that we're clued in on cuskynoles, what the heck is the
> mosserouns yflorys issue, and why does it need to be threshed out?
The suspense was killing you, eh ; ) ? I hadn't really expected an
answer on that one; it is arguably the most confusing and ambiguous
recipe in the Anglo-Norman 14th-century repertoire, I certainly can't
think of one offhand with more potential unanswered questions to be
attached to it (except, maybe, cuskynoles). The recipe is from MS. He.,
referred to in _Curye on Inglysche_ as "Diversa Cibaria":
"55. Mosserouns florys: ...in rost ysih hou gentiliche & sone. Veorst
*ou schalt maken riht wel passen, & so**en in water cold cast larde
cold; make bringen & onelich hewen; *enne nym sone *e musseruns, lardes
coynteliche wi* larduns. Make as were vor to swerden & so**en aske a god
roste. Nou inoh is the mes in rost, of ayren do awet *e qwyt. Some on *e
gredil riht veyre floris speces. Nym & caste gilofre & kanel; wi*innen
meddlen."
["*" is used in place of the Anglo-Saxon letter whose name is
pronounced "eth", roughly equivalent to the diphthong "th". I figured
most folks wouldn't be able to pick up non-standard ASCII letters.]
So, as best as I can decipher, what we have is a dish whose method I
believe consists of washing/trimming the mushrooms, chilling some pork
fat for easier cutting, cutting the fat into small pieces, and carefully
larding the mushrooms. They are roasted until done, at which point some
eggs are separated, the whites being discarded, and the yolks presumably
reserved for use.While still on the gridiron, the mushrooms are
sprinkled with finely powdered spices, the dish is mixed together, and,
I assume, served.
The main problem is the mention of eggs. The recipe doesn't say what to
do with them. If I had to guess, I'd say that the roasted mushrooms are
to be coated with the raw egg yolks, and, before the yolks are allowed
to set in the heat of the fire, the spices are sprinkled on, and they
stick to the outside of the coated mushrooms. Just how the egg yolks are
applied (if at all) is anybody's guess. One possibility that comes to
mind is that the griddle mentioned is more like a modern pancake griddle
or bakestone, rather than an open
grill of metal bars. This would allow the egg yolks to be poured over
the mushrooms, the spices sprinkled on, and the whole thing stirred to
coat the mushrooms in spiced egg yolk glaze.
However, I'm pretty much clutching at straws here. If you've ever larded
foods, you'll have a fair idea of how difficult larding mushrooms might
be. Add to that the ambiguity regarding the eggs, and you see what I
mean about the recipe being confusing. And what's worse, this one hasn't
got a diagram : )! One possible solution would be to think of this
dish in terms of stuffed mushrooms, laying a small slice of fat inside
the upturned mushroom cap, roasting it, topping off the hollow cap with
egg yolk and spices, and finishing the cooking. This would probably give
you a fairly good approximation of how the dish is supposed to taste,
without necessarily addressing the question of how it is intended to be
structured, cooked, or served.
I tried this dish at a local event a few months ago, rather on the spur
of the moment (I'd gotten an excellent deal on Portabellos the night
before and showed up in the morning with two cases in hand). What with
one thing and another, I decided to do the dish with butter instead of
pork fat, which I still feel was an acceptable idea. The other, less
defensible change I made was to use beaten whole eggs, since I didn't
want to just throw away the whites, and had an exceedingly full menu
without having to come up with a use for them. It turned out all right,
but I've subsequently tried it with the pork fat and egg yolks, and the
dish was much better.
So, I suppose what I was hoping was that someone would look at this
recipe and notice whatever it was that I missed, and would point it out
to me.
G. Tacitus Adamantius
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 00:19:21 -0800
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Mushroom Pasties
At 6:00 PM -0600 1/19/98, Michael F. Gunter wrote:
>Mushroom Pasties
>"The Goodman of Paris" adapted in "The Medieval Cookbook" by Maggie Black.
>
>1 lb mushrooms 1/2 tsp salt
>2 T. olive oil 1/8 tsp ground black pepper
>2 oz grated cheese (cheddar) 1/4 tsp dry mustard powder
>1 egg, beaten salt
>
>tart shells & pastry to top
>
>Preheat oven to 400 degrees
>
>Finely chop mushrooms. Put in a bowl and mix in oil, cheese, and seasonings.
>Place in the tart shells and cover with the top crust. Seal with beaten egg.
>Make a small cross cut in the center of the lid to let steam escape.
>
>Bake for 15-18 minutes. Serve warm.
We do a redaction of the same original, but it is somewhat different. The
original is:
- --
Mushroom Pastries
Menagier p. M-25
Mushrooms of one night are the best, and are small and red inside, closed
above; and they should be peeled, then wash in hot water and parboil; if
you wish to put them in pastry add oil, cheese, and powdered spices.
- --
Also, Menagier gives elsewhere:
- --
Fine Powder of Spices
Menagier p. M-40
Take an ounce and a drachm of white ginger, a quarter-ounce of hand-picked
cinnamon, half a quarter-ounce each of grains and cloves, and a
quarter-ounce of rock sugar, and grind to powder.
- --
Note that the original includes no egg. Note also that the original tells
you to parboil the mushrooms, a step omitted in the Maggie Black version.
I'm also skeptical of black pepper alone, or black pepper and mustard, as
an interpretation of "powdered spices." Le Menagier uses mustard for
mustard sauce; if you look at spices that are specified, in _Le Menagier_
and similar sources, I don't think you will find mustard treated as a spice.
Here is our version:
1 lb mushrooms spice powder: 1/8 t cloves
9 oz cheese (parmesan) 1 t ginger 1/8 t grains of paradise
1 T olive oil 1/4 t cinnamon 1/4 t sugar
Slice mushrooms and parboil (put into boiling water and cook two minutes);
drain. Grate or chop cheese. Grind grains of paradise and mix up spices.
Mix mushrooms, 2/3 of cheese, spices and oil. Put mixture into crust, put
remaining cheese over. Makes scant 9" pie. Bake about 20-25 minutes at 350°.
Incidentally, we don't know whether what he means by "pastry" is a
flour/water/shortening dough, like a modern pie crust, or a flour/water
dough. We use the former, but might well be wrong.
David/Cariadoc
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:00:57 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: SC - Le Menagier's Mushrooms?
> Does anybody know what type of mushrooms would have been used in period that
> they would have needed to be parboiled and peeled? The wild mushrooms I have
> experience with (chantarelles, oyster, portabello...) all work fine without
> needing any extra boiling or peeling, if anything they are more delicate than
> store-bought button mushrooms... even if they are dried they just need to be
> re-hydrated a bit, not peeled.
> - -brid
I have a book on wild mushrooms (unfortunately now inaccessible for the
moment) which includes several hundred varieties, both edible, inedible,
and some on the borderline between the two.
Many are regarded as more or less edible in a qualified sense: they
contain some toxins, so uncontrolled ingestion could cause harm. Two
ways in which many such varieties can be eaten with decreased chances of
problems with toxicity are peeling and parboiling. Apparently either
some mushrooms contain higher levels of toxin in the outer skin, or
perhaps peeling exposes a more porous surface so that toxins can escape
from the mushroom proper. Parboiling would tend to break down some
toxins (depending on what they are and how they behave), and also, and
perhaps more importantly, cause the toxins to diffuse out into the
cooking liquid, which you then discard.
Not knowing what variety Le Menagier is referring to, we can't be sure
one way or the other why he advises his bride to peel and parboil. What
is almost certain is that he's not talking about cultivated champignons.
While agaricus field mushrooms did exist in the wild (flat field caps
and "horse mushrooms" are a bit like portobellos), I don't think they
were especially prized over some other varieties.
Adamantius
troy at asan.com
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:21:53 EST
From: LrdRas <LrdRas at aol.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Le Menagier's Mushr
marisa_herzog at macmail.ucsc.edu writes:
<< but I hadn't seen peeling recommended before... >>
I do not think that the modern corpus recommends peeling mushrooms, however,
my mother and grandmother always peeled theirs. I would venture to guess that
due to modern methods of commercial mushrooms growing there is little or no
need to do so nowadays. When gathered from a wild setting mushrooms can
contain many nasties including maggots and beetles. It would seem prudent to
both wash and peel them. Alternatively, cultured mushrooms were grown in
horsemanure previously necessitating some cleaning also. Add all this to the
fact that an occasional toxic 'shroom may have been mistakenly added to the
collection, IMHO, it makes perfect sense to parboil and peel them from a
medieval perspective.
Be that as it may, the modern cultivated mushrooms grow wild even today and
were not unavailable in the MA. In regards to the red in mushrooms, I must
disagree with the poster who said modern mushrooms are not red when the
buttons are cut in cross section. The gills certainly are not fire-engine red
but the color of the gills , at least on the one laying beside me at this
moment are a nice reddish brown. I would go so far as to say that it could be
described as red by a less color oriented person.
Ras
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 20:15:15 -0800
From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <acrouss at gte.net>
Subject: Re: SC - recipes (vegetarian)
Hi all from Anne-Marie
My favorite (so far! :)) vegetarian documented period recipe is frumenty
(barley), espeicially when served with a big scoop of funges on top.
If you have specific questions on my reconstrucions, feel free to ask away.
Oh, and if you do use these, all I ask is that you let me know (I get a
buzz off knowing people are eating my food all over the place! :))
enjoy!
FUNGES (Forme of Curye #12, c. 1399)
Take Funges and pare hem clene, and dyce hem; take leke and shred hym small
and do hym to seeth in gode broth. Colour it with safroun and do therinne
powdour fort.
1 lb mushrooms
2 leek, white and tender green bits only
2 cups Swansons brand vegetable broth
1 pinch saffron
3/4 tsp powder forte*
Wash the veggies, slice the leek finely and cut the mushrooms into chunks.
Add saffron to the broth and bring it to a boil. Add the leek, mushrooms
and spices to the broth. Simmer 20 minutres or until liquid is mostly gone.
Remove from the heat and serve with frumenty.
Serves 6.
*Powder forte:
1/2 tsp freshly ground black pepper
1 1/2 Tbsp ginger
1 Tbsp cinnamon
1/2 tsp clove
1/2 tsp grains of paradise, ground in a mortar and pestle (if you can't
find grains, add a 50/50 mix of ginger and black pepper)
Mix and store in an airtight container away from light and heat.
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 19:13:54 +1000
From: Robyn Probert <robyn.probert at lawpoint.com.au>
Subject: Re: SC - mushrooms
The mushroom Ketchup recipie...
This recipie is from "The Barricaded Larder" by Elizabeth Luard (1988). This
is another one of those very useful cross refernce books and can be a great
help in starting a redaction on an unfamiliar dish.
As Cariadoc rightly pointed out, this is not a period ingredient or recipie.
I have never seen it referred to in any of my period sources, and have
obviously never used it in SCA cooking. It is useful mundanely to add depth
and complexity to stews (especially beef ones) and to add extra strenth to
the flavour of inferior/very young mushrooms if they need help.
Mushroom Ketchup
To make 2 pints/1.2 litres
4 lb/2kg black mushrooms [use the big open ones for more flavour]
4oz/100g salt
1 tsp peppercorns
1 small piece mace
1 tsp nutmeg
1 pint/600 ml vinegar [I use a white wine vinegar]
1 small glass brandy [200 mls]
Wipe the mushrooms and leyer them in a bowl, scattering salt between each
layer. Weight with a clean plate and leave overnight to maker juice.
The next day, crush the spices and bring them to the boil with the vinegar.
Pour over the mushrooms. Tranmsfer the mixture to a large saucepan. Bring to
the boil and cook for 15 minutes.
Stir in the brandy. Either strain off the liquid and pour it, still hot,
into the sterilised bottles, and seal tightly. Or tip the whole mixture into
the food processor and liquidise it into a thick dark sauce. Bring back to
the boil and bottle it.
Store the ketchip in a cool dark place, and transfer it to the fridge once
opened.
You can also buy it ready made here, which is more expensive but less trouble...
Rowan
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 08:56:38 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Re: seeking recipes (Outdoor Feast)
Here are couple of Tuscan recipes that caught my eye in The Medieval Kitchen
(early birthday present from my darling wife). They should transport well
without refrigeration, cook up easily on an open fire and be scalable. BTW,
I didn't see anything about the size of this feast. How many people are you
serving?
Bear
<snip of onion salad recipe>
Mountain mushrooms. Take mountain mushrooms and boil them; and discard the
water; then fry them with finely sliced onion, or with white of leek,
spices, and salt, and serve
1 pound mushrooms
1 small onion
olive oil
1 pinch ground pepper
1 pinch ground ginger
1 pinch freshly grated nutmeg
2 pinches ground coriander seed
salt
Boil about 10 minutes, drain thoroughly. Sweat the onion in the olive oil
until very soft. Add the mushrooms, saute on high heat for about a minute.
Season with salt and spices. Reduce heat, cover and simmer for about 15
minutes, checking and stirring occasionally.
Hmmm. I've got a half dozen small portobellos and a bunch of leeks in the
fridge. Wonder if this would go well with leftover roast?
In case you haven't done this before, you change pan temperatures by
increasing the distance between the pan and the coals. I've found that most
cooking works best with a bed of coals rather than flames. The heat from
the coals is more even.
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 20:47:49 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: SC - mountain mushrooms
After tossing in the two Tuscan recipes earlier, my wife "suggested" that
they would go fine with leftover roast and I should prepare them for her
pleasure.
I have tried the mountain mushrooms (the onions are going to be done
tomorrow for a potluck birthday dinner). It is a nice way to saute
mushrooms. The flavor of the spices was more subtle than I had expected, a
mild bite considering the freshness of the coriander.
The portobellos added a distinct flavor of their own. The spicing might
stand out more if I used less flavorful bulk mushrooms. I erred by grabbing
an onion rather than a leek. I think the dish would be improved by the
lighter flavor of leeks.
If I can get mushrooms at a good price, I will probably prepare this recipe
for a feast some time.
Bear
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:04:52 -0500
From: "meadhbh at io.com" <meadhbh at io.com>
Subject: SC - Marinated Mushrooms
Here is the recipe for the mushrooms. I was given this recipe from my friend Master Basilicus in the Midrealm. It is wonderful.Let me know how you like it!
Meadhbh
Marinated Mushrooms
Recipe By : Master Basilicus
Serving Size : 10 Preparation Time :0:02
Categories : Appetizer Vegetables
Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
- -------- ------------ --------------------------------
1 pound mushrooms
water
white vinegar
1/4 cup olive oil
2 teaspoons salt
2 cloves garlic -- quartered
1 teaspoon ground mace
white vinegar
Clean 1 pound of mushrooms (with 1/2 inch caps). Place mushrooms in a sauce pan and cover with equal amounts of water and white vinegar. Bring mixture to a boil and cook for 5 minutes.
Drain and cool mushrooms. When cool, pack in a jar or plastic pail (large batch) with spice mixture. Cover mushrooms with white vinegar. Store in refrigerator for 2 days.
Serve cold.
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:20:15 -0700
From: kat <kat at kagan.com>
Subject: SC - Oooohhh, mushrooms!
Oh, I do love marinated mushrooms! Here's my favorite recipe:
For each 1 lb. mushrooms, cleaned and trimmed:
1/2 c. white wine vinegar*
1/4 c. water*
2 bay leaves
5 cloves, whole
5 peppercorns, whole
2-4 cloves garlic, sliced or chopped
1/4 c. olive oil
Bring spices, water, vinegar to boil; add shrooms. Boil 10 minutes. Remove from boil; let cool; pour into storage jar. Top with olive oil. Keep in fridge.
I sometimes pickle garlic in this marinade too. Yum!
*Proportions on these 2 ingredients are a little sketchy; this is from memory. It could be more vinegar and less water. Experiment.
- ---kat griffith, editor---
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 13:06:58 EDT
From: THLRenata at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Food Preservation
Morgan asks:
>>Third, I really wanted to pickle some mushrooms just because they are my
favorite :) I can't find a late period English source for it, however.
Does anyone out there have a period source for pickled 'shrooms?
I would be eternally grateful :)<<
Here's one from Lady Elinor Fettiplace's Receipt book. I've made this as
marinaded mushrooms, but the recipe works for pickled as well. Watch the
amount of ginger! The first time I made this I did not know how thick a 1 inch
piece of ginger root should be (come to think of it, I still don't) and the
recipe came out VERY gingery. I took it to a tourney where it was sampled by
everyone who came into our pavilion. The comment was unanimous "Hmmm,
interesting."
Have fun with it!
Renata (who no longer allows her culinary creations to be called
"interesting"!)
To Pickle Mushrooms
Take your Buttons, clean ym with a sponge & put ym in cold water as you clean
ym, then put ym dry in a stewpan & shake a handful of salt over ym, yn stew ym
in their own liquor till they are a little tender; then strain ym from ye
liquor & put ym upon a cloath to dry till they are quite cold. Make your
Pickle before you do your mushrooms, yt may be quite cold before you put ym
in. The Pickle must be made with White-Wine, White-Pepper, quarter's Nutmeg, a
Blade of Mace & a Race of ginger.
Hilary Spurling redacts this recipe as follows:
Make the pickling liquor first. For every 1 lb. mushrooms you will need about
1/3 pint of white wine, 6 white peppercorns, half a nutmeg, a blade of mace
and a 1 inch piece of fresh ginger root, peeled and sliced. Put all
ingredients into a small saucepan and simmer, covered, for 10 minutes. Add a
few spoonfuls of water if the liquid shows signs of evaporating. leave to
cool.
Wipe the mushrooms clean. Put them, whole, into a thick-bottomed saucepan with
a heaping teaspoon of slat, and heat them gently, shaking and stirring with a
wooden spoon from time to time, especially in the begining before the juices
begin to flow. Keep the lid on between stirs. The mushrooms will plump up,
squeaking, then sweat lightly and finally stew in their own juice. Cook until
tender, about 10 minutes. The mushrooms will start to reabsorb their juices.
Let them cool completely if pickling -- if marinading them for immediate
comsumption, pour the pickling liquid on them while they are hot. Let cool
before eating.
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 08:57:28 -0500 (CDT)
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming)
Subject: SC - Pickled Mushrooms - Long
Greetings! THL Morgan MacBride requested a recipe for pickled
mushrooms. Here's one I found and followed since it is quite clear. I
"cheated" and used button mushrooms so I didn't peel them.
Pickled mushrooms, from Sir Kenelme Digbie’s _The Closet
Opened_, as found in Cariadoc’s _Collection of Medieval and
Renaissance Cookbooks_. I have edited out some of his instructions
that have no bearing on the preparation...It was a lot for my wrist to
type.
“Pickled Champignons”
“...Cut the great ones into halves or quarters,, seeing carefully there
be no worms in them; and peel off their upper skin on the tips: the
little ones, peel whole. As you peel them, throw them into a
bason of fair-water, which preserves them white. Then put them
into a pipkin or possnet of Copper (no Iron) and put a very little
water to them, and a large proportion of Salt. If you have a pottle
of Mushrooms, you may put to them ten or twelve spoonfuls of
water, and two or three of Salt. Boil them with a pretty quick-fire,
and scum them well all the while, taking away a great deal of
foulness, that will rise. They will shrink into a very little room.
When they are sufficiently parboiled to be tender, and well
cleansed of their scum, (which will be in about a quarter of an
hour,) take them out, and put them into a Colander, that all the
moisture may drain from them. In the mean time make your
pickle thus: Take a quart of pure sharp white Wine Vinegar
(elder-Vinegar is best) put two or threee spoonfuls of whole
Pepper to it, twenty or thirty Cloves, one Nutmeg quartered,
two or three flakes of Mace, three Bay-leaves; (some like
Limon-Thyme and Rose-mary; but then it must be a very little
of each) boil all these together, till the Vinegar be well impraegnated
with the Ingredients, whch will be in about half an hour. Then take
it from the fire, and let it cool. When the pickl is quite cold, and
the Mushrooms also quite cold, and drained from all moisture: put
them into the Liquor (with all the Ingredients in it) which you must
be sure, be enough to cover them. In twn or twelve days, they
will have taken into them the full taste of the pickle, and will keep
very good half a year. If you have much supernatant Liquor, you
may parboil more Mushrooms the next day, and put them to the
first. If you have not gathered at once enough for a dressing, you
may keep them all night in water to preserve them white, and gather
more the next day, to joyn to them.”
Alys Katharine
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 22:53:25 EST
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Period Use of Mushrooms
THLRenata at aol.com writes:
<< what varieties of mushroom would have ben used for the
original recipe back in Richard II's day? >>
Many of the mushrooms we grow today were used in the middle ages. The common
white ones (Agaricus campestris), portebella, crimini (sp.), morels which were
a favorite of Louis XIII, and truffles (rooted out by trained pigs) come
immediately to mind.
Other species known to be used were boletas, royal agaric, Jew's Ears
(Auricularia auricula)
According to Toussssaint-Samat in 'History of Food' mushrooms have been
cultivated since Classical times in beds of horsemanure. In the Middle Ages
one of the preoccupations of alchemists was the study of mushrooms. They hoped
'to discover the secret of creation from them'. 'Nicandes of Cleo in the
second century B.C.E. wrote in 'Theriaca suggests manure between the roots
of fig trees for cultivation and Dioscorides in 'Materia medica' suggets
sprinkling shredded poplar bark over compost.
Other sources of information on cultivation can be found in Corpus 0f
Mushrooms (Pietrandrea Mallioli-1500-77 C.E.) and Theatre d'agriculture et
mesnage de champs (Olivier de Serres, pub. 1600 C.E.). They are also noted
by Avecenna (930-1036 C.E.) and St. Augustine.
Ras
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 14:08:42 +0000
From: Robyn Probert <robyn.probert at lawpoint.com.au>
Subject: Re: SC - Period Use of Mushrooms
At 16:14 10/12/1998 -0800, Elizabeth/Betty Cook wrote:
>"MUSHROOMS of one night are the best, and are small and red inside, closed
>above: and they should be peeled, then wash in hot water and parboil; if
>you wish to put them in pastry, add oil, cheese and powdered spices.
>I don't know what kind he is describing, but it doesn't sound like what I
>buy at the grocery.
Sounds like baby buttom mushrooms to me - the one time I grew my own
mushrooms, mushrooms 'of one night' were about 1.5 - 2cm across (say 3/4 ").
If you cut them open, the gills were still pink. I'd be buying the smallest
button mushrooms available in the market.
Rowan
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 01:56:16 -0500
From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com>
To: LIST SCA arts <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Mushroom Soup
Found this recipe from The Forme of Cury c1390:-
This is simple enough. Take as many mushrooms as required, clean, pare and
cut into small pieces. Put into a pan with shredded leek and plenty of good
broth. Colour and flavour with saffron and add spices to taste.
1 lbs, mushrooms to 1 leek, to 2 pts broth, saffron 1 pinch, spices nutmeg,
mace, cinnamon, a touch of sugar ? this would be my interpretation of it.
I tend to use field or horse mushrooms for my soups, but as this mentiones
saffron for colour, they must of been using them early or another type, as
my mushroom soup tends to be almost black (I love it very tasty) but no
amount of saffron would colour it :)
Mel
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:21:03 -0800
From: Anne-Marie Rousseau <acrouss at gte.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Radio spot request
here you go! all rights reserved, no reprinting without permission, etc.
enjoy!
- --Anne-Marie
Mushroom Pasties:
[Le Menagier a Paris, c. 1395]
Mushrooms of one night are the best, and are small and red inside, closed
above; and they should be peeled, then wash in hot water and parboil; if you
wish to put them in pastry add oil, cheese and powdered spices.
Our Version:
1 lb small mushrooms, cleaned and chunked up if neccessary
2 T olive oil
1 t ginger
1/2 tsp black pepper
1/4 t. cinnamon
6 T grated cheddar
4 T grated parmasean
8" Pie shell w/top
1 egg, beaten
Parboil mushrooms (dunk into boiling water for a minute and drain). Mix
together mushrooms, 2/3 of the cheese, oil and spices. Arrange on the bottom
pastry. Sprinkle with the remaining cheese. Put the lid on, brush with the
beaten egg. Bake 400o for 15-20 min.
Serves 8-10
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:21:03 -0800
From: Anne-Marie Rousseau <acrouss at gte.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Radio spot request
here you go! all rights reserved, no reprinting without permission, etc.
enjoy!
- --Anne-Marie
Mushroom Pasties:
[Le Menagier a Paris, c. 1395]
Mushrooms of one night are the best, and are small and red inside, closed
above; and they should be peeled, then wash in hot water and parboil; if you
wish to put them in pastry add oil, cheese and powdered spices.
Our Version:
1 lb small mushrooms, cleaned and chunked up if neccessary
2 T olive oil
1 t ginger
1/2 tsp black pepper
1/4 t. cinnamon
6 T grated cheddar
4 T grated parmasean
8" Pie shell w/top
1 egg, beaten
Parboil mushrooms (dunk into boiling water for a minute and drain). Mix
together mushrooms, 2/3 of the cheese, oil and spices. Arrange on the bottom
pastry. Sprinkle with the remaining cheese. Put the lid on, brush with the
beaten egg. Bake 400o for 15-20 min.
Serves 8-10
<snip of Eggs farced [la Varenne #1 p294]- see eggs-msg file>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 00:06:12 +0100
From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de>
Subject: SC - marzipan mold material -- pfifferling
> The word in Sabina Welserin is Pfifferling. I assumed that it was the same
as the modern usage, but there is always the chance that the terminology has
drifted. Anyone know if the Early Modern High German use of that particular
noun was different than today? <
The article in the "Deutsches Woerterbuch" by Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm
and the passages in Moriz Heyne's book (p. 332) suggest that the
prototypical use of "pfifferling" is the one to denote the mushroom
called "chanterelle" in French and English. On the other hand some
glossaries of the 15th century put together the word "pfifferling" with
more general terms in latin like "boletus", which meant (I assume, don't
quote me) something like 'edible mushroom'. There are even entries like
"tuberes pfyfferling" (lat. _tuber_, 'truffle').
As far as I can see, the descriptions in the herbals of the time of
Sabina Welser suggest that the word "pfifferling" meant the chanterelle.
The herbal of Lonicer (1616) says:
"Die dritten sind Pfifferling oder Pfefferling/ welche man also nennet
vmb deß hitzigen Geschmacks willen/ der sich dem Pfeffer gleichet. Diese
werden bey den Lateinischen Boleti orbiculati genannt" (fol. 86a; 'The
third kind of mushrooms are the pfifferlinge or pfefferlinge. They are
called this way because their taste is hot, comparable to the taste of
pepper. These mushrooms are called boleti orbiculati [round mushrooms]
in Latin').
In the herbal of Hiermonymus Bock (1577) we find: "Die dritten Schwemme
droben gesetzt/ nennet man bey vns Pfifferling/ heissen wol Pfifferling/
vmb des heissen geschmacks willen/ vnnd Orbiculati der groesse halben.
Jm Rhase Cautar oder Alcorsoph. cap xviij." (fol. 332a; 'The third kind
of mushrooms above mentioned is called in German pfifferling/ probably
they are called pfifferling because of their hot taste, and they are
called orbiculati [round and formed like a disk] because of their size.
In the book of Rhazes they are called Cautar or Alcorsoph, chapter
18.').
The passage referred to by "droben gesetzt" (above mentioned) is: "Die
dritten so auch inn der speise genuetzt weren/ wachsenn inn hohen
finstern Waelden/ von farben gantz weisz/ rund/ etliche breytter dann
ein Deller/ die geben/ wann sie zerbrochen seind/ weisse scharpffe
hitzige Milch/ heisser auff der zungen dann Pfefferwurtz. Dise braten
die arme leut im Odenwald mit saltz/ auff glueenden kolen jhn zuor
speise" (331a; 'The third kind of mushrooms, which are used for cooking,
grow in high and dark woods, they are all white, round, some of them
broader than a plate. If they are broken there is a white sharp and hot
"milk", hotter on the tongue than pepper. These mushrooms are roasted
with salt on a coal as a dish by the poor people in the Odenwald [a
rural landscape northwest of Heidelberg]').
Konrad von Megenberg in his "Book of nature" (about 1350) tells the
following story: "ez ist auch ainer ander lai swannen, die haizent
etleich ze latein boletos und haizent ze da"utsch pfifferling da schol
man sich vor hu"eten, wan si sint dick gar vergiftig und toetleich. daz
waiz ich wol, wan ez geschach ze Wienn in Oesterreich da ainer
pfifferling az und trank met dar auf und starb zehant vor dem vaz" (ed.
Pfeiffer 1861, p. 402).
'There is a different kind of mushroom, which some people call in Latin
boletos and they are called pfifferlinge in German; be careful not to
eat these mushrooms because they are often [_dick_ = 'often'] very
poisonous and deathly. This is something I know very well: it happened
in Vienna in Austria that someone ate pfifferlinge and then drank "Met"
and he died instantly before the barrel with the Met'.
Well: either "pfifferling" is here used for some poisonous mushroom or
the guy did not eat "pfifferlinge" at all or he died from something else
(e.g. poison_ed_ mushrooms).
Thomas
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:51:56 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - marzipan mold material -- pfifferling
Thomas Gloning wrote:
> > The word in Sabina Welserin is Pfifferling. I assumed that it was the
same as the modern usage, but there is always the chance that the
terminology has drifted. Anyone know if the Early Modern High German use of
that particular noun was different than today? <
> On the other hand some
> glossaries of the 15th century put together the word "pfifferling" with
> more general terms in latin like "boletus", which meant (I assume, don't
> quote me) something like 'edible mushroom'. There are even entries like
> "tuberes pfyfferling" (lat. _tuber_, 'truffle').
Hmmm. Boletus is a genus commonly represented among edible mushrooms by
boletus edulis, characterized by tube-shaped spore structures, instead
of gills under the cap. Commonly called Cepes in French, Porcini in
Italian, and Steinpilze in German, all modern versions of the respective
languages. I can't say if this holds true in archaic versions of the
languages in question.
Adamantius
Østgardr, East
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 21:31:18 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - marzipan mold material -- pfifferling
Thomas Gloning wrote:
> As far as I can see, the descriptions in the herbals of the time of
> Sabina Welser suggest that the word "pfifferling" meant the chanterelle.
> The herbal of Lonicer (1616) says:
> "Die dritten sind Pfifferling oder Pfefferling/ welche man also nennet
> vmb deß hitzigen Geschmacks willen/ der sich dem Pfeffer gleichet. Diese
> werden bey den Lateinischen Boleti orbiculati genannt" (fol. 86a; 'The
> third kind of mushrooms are the pfifferlinge or pfefferlinge. They are
> called this way because their taste is hot, comparable to the taste of
> pepper. These mushrooms are called boleti orbiculati [round mushrooms]
> in Latin').
More on the boletus mushroom: they're round (i.e. they have a round
cap). They taste slightly of pepper when raw (as do agarics like your
basic champignon from the supermarket). Chanterelles possess neither
characteristic, within my experience with them. Boletus edulis, a.k.a.
steinpilze, have tubular spore openings instead of gills on the
underside of their caps. I wonder if the word "pfifferling" might be a
diminutive of some term meaning "piper" (something like pfeifferling)
rather than "pepper", which is how Lonicer seems to translate pfifferling.
Of course the science of taxonomy was young and incomplete in the 17th
century, and the fact that someone is writing about Latin terms for
mushrooms doesn't necessarily mean these mushrooms are of the genus
boletus. I think it's an interesting theory, though, since chanterelles
have no distinct cap, let alone a round one, and don't really taste like
pepper.
I think we may have gotten off the topic of the mold used, though, eh?
BTW, the suggestion was raised that perhaps a somewhat two-dimensional
rendition of the mushroom may have been what was intended. If what
Sabina Welserin et al intended was really chanterelles, that might be an
excellent explanation.
Adamantius
Østgardr, East
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 06:01:33 +0100
From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de>
Subject: SC - pfifferling
I looked up another historical dictionary: Truebners Deutsches
Woerterbuch. Fuenfter Band, Berlin 1954, p. 94 (a very good source if
they have an article):
"Pfifferling (...) Urspruenglich bezeichnet es den heute
Pfeffermischling, -pilz oder -schwamm genannten Pilz _Lactaria piperata_
(Agaricus piperatus), einen grossen, weissgrauen Blaetterpilz, der wegen
seines scharfen Milchsafts bei uns fuer ungeniessbar gilt, in
Siebenbuergen jedoch gegessen wird. Heute nennen wir so den kleinen
gelben Cantharicus cibarius, der einer der beliebtesten Speisepilze ist
und in den einzelnen Gegenden ganz verschiedene Namen fuehrt (...). Zwei
alte Zeugnisse meinen schon diesen Pilz [one source from the 16th
century]"; (roughly: the older meaning of _pfifferling_ is the use to
denote Lactaria piperata, the newer one is the use to denote the
chanterelle; there are some old quotations for the sense 'chanterelle').
It seems to me now, that the description in the herbal from Hieronymus
Bock fits better to the older meaning of "pfifferling". However, that
does not say much about the question of the material and the form of the
mold for the marzipan. (I missed the beginning of the thread; what is
the recipe in which the mold is mentioned?)
On the older meaning of lat. "boletus" more later.
Th.
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 11:48:35 -0000
From: "Oughton, Karin (GEIS, Tirlan)" <Karin.Oughton at geis.ge.com>
Subject: RE: SC - marzipan mold material -- pfifferling
Why do you assume that all these descriptions apply to the chanterelle?
I'm remembering this from the top of my head - and I usually double check
this all with reference texts before actually eating anything but:
There is a European family of mushrooms with the latin genus "boletus" - the
most commonly known one is the cep, but there are a whole range of
different varieties within that family group - including poisonous ones. The
boletus mushroom tends to be quite stocky with a broad round flat cap- the
archetypal mushroom drawing of childrens books - and certain varieties are
quite peppery in flavour. They also grow quite large in size. I think that
the red( devils? I can't remember the exact name) boletus is quite peppery..
The chanterelle on the other hand has a thin wavy flat top, is pale orange
in color, and it's signate descriptive is the delicate apricot perfume it
has, not so much pepperness. The false chanterelle on the other hand... does
have pepperyness and a white milk..and I think is poisonous if not cooked
correctly but this is all a little fuzzy. ... to date the chanterelles that
I have found have all been quite small & delicate, but this could be the
regional differences - they may very well be larger in mainland Europe.
I'll try and look some of this up tonight : ) to give you accurate
descriptives.
You would have no problems moulding your average boletus, but the devil's
own time moulding a wavy chanterelle
karin
(who hasn't been poisoned yet by hunted wild mushrooms........... : )
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:37:02 -0500
From: "Gaylin Walli" <gwalli at infoengine.com>
Subject: SC - Menagier's Champignons
I'm trying to figure out something about the mushroom recipe
that Menagier has in the pastry section. The Pichon translation
says
CHAMPIGNONS d'une nuit sont les meilleurs, et sont
petits et vermeils dedans, clos dessus...
Which, I believe, translates roughly to the English
MUSHROOMS of one night are the best, and are small
and red inside, closed above...
When it says "of one night" what does that mean?
jasmine, jasmine at infoengine.com
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:22:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Laura C Minnick <lainie at gladstone.uoregon.edu>
Subject: Re: SC - Menagier's Champignons
On Tue, 16 Mar 1999, Gaylin Walli wrote:
> MUSHROOMS of one night are the best, and are small
> and red inside, closed above...
>
> When it says "of one night" what does that mean?
I seem to remember that 'mushrooms of one night' was basically those that
are one night old, on the tree. Mushrooms spring up quite fast, and one
night of growth (depending on the variety) would produce a somewhat small
but succulent mushroom. Think sprouts or baby vegetables and I think that
is the concept.
'Lainie
- -
Laura C. Minnick
University of Oregon
Department of English
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 09:31:25 +1100
From: The Cheshire Cat <cheshire at southcom.com.au>
Subject: Re: SC - Suggestions for a mushroom dish?
And it came to pass that Lorix wrote:
>I am compiling my recipes for a feast & have come
>across a slight problem. Attending the feast will
>be a couple of people with a variety of food
>preferences and/or allergies. Now I am fine with
>most things but I am looking for a protein dish
>for a lactose intolerant vegetarian (in this case
>meaning no fish or chicken, butter, cheese or
>other dairy products). Now, this basically
>precludes pastry dishes too ;-( In this
>particular case, eggs are somewhat of a problem
>because it is an animal product . . .
>
>I've got it covered for the rest of the meal, but
>would like to serve a period 'protein' dish for
>this 'category'. I have been thinking about
>something containing a mix of nuts & mushrooms,
>but would welcome any suggestions and especially
>any recipes.
>
>Lorix
I have a recipe for sauteed mushrooms with spices that meets all the
requirements stipulated above. I hope it helps.
- -Katerine of the Twisted Woods
SAUTEED MUSHROOMS WITH SPICES
Libro della cucina del secolo XIV
Toglie fungi di monte, e lessali: e gittatene via l'acqua, mettili poi a
friggere con cipolla tritata minuto, o con bianco di porro, spezie trite, o
senza.
English Translation:
Take mountain mushrooms and boil them; and discard the water; then fry them
with finely sliced onion, or with white of leek, spices and salt, and serve
500g mushrooms. Brown ones from purity work pretty well here for some reason.
1 small leek
olive oil
1 pinch ground black pepper
1 pinch ground ginger
1 pinch grated nutmeg
2 pinches ground coriander seed
salt
Trim and clean the mushrooms and cut them in half if they are partcularly
large. Cook in boiling water for about 10 minutes and drain well.
Meanwhile finely chop the white part of the leek and sweat it in a little
olive oil until very soft. Add the mushrooms and raise the heat to high.
Saute for a minute. Season with the spices, lower the heat, cover the pan
and simmer for about 15 minutes. Remember to check on the mushrooms from
time to time and give them a stir. Serve when they are golden brown.
Scale up and down the recipe as you see fit.
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 18:15:32 -0500
From: Jo Marie Friedel <jazzi at alltel.net>
Subject: [Fwd: SC - Suggestions for a mushroom dish?]
> I have a recipe for sauteed mushrooms with spices that meets all the
> requirements stipulated above. I hope it helps.
> -Katerine of the Twisted Woods
>
> SAUTEED MUSHROOMS WITH SPICES
> Libro della cucina del secolo XIV
>
> Toglie fungi di monte, e lessali: e gittatene via l'acqua, mettili poi a
> friggere con cipolla tritata minuto, o con bianco di porro, spezie trite, o
> senza.
I just used this same recipe for the Feast of St. Valentine and it was well
recieved. I started with 15 lbs of small to med sized white mushrooms, fed 85
gentles or so and had maybe 2 lbs come back to the kitchen, which were then frozen and used last weekend in a soup for a fighter practice.
Tygre Marie
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 17:05:30 EST
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - mushrooms
cjvt at hotmail.com writes:
<< s there any good culinary reason why some recipes in the mediaeval corpus
say to peel mushrooms? Or is it merely to give you time and opportunity to
spot which ones go yellow (which we don't need if we buy cultivated ones
these days)? >>
There are a few reasons that I can think of. First, there are many edible
mushrooms. The white kind most commonly available in the USA is one type.
Some wild edible fungus have thick rubbery skins which are best removed
because the texture is objectionable to some people.
Second, if a poisonous mushroom is accidentally included in the batch,
removing the poison laden peel results in less poison to be ingested.
Third, wild mushrooms are notorious for housing all manner of creepy crawlys.
For instance maggots, beetles, slugs and many other house guests. Peeling the
mushroom would offer a better chance to notice these creatures and remove
them.
Fourth, The peel is often a different color than the flesh. If presentation
depends on sight then removing the peel would result in a far different
appearance of the dish.
I see no reason to peel the most commonly available commercial mushrooms.
Just my guess.
Ras
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 17:37:11 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - mushrooms
LrdRas at aol.com wrote:
> Some wild edible fungus have thick rubbery skins which are best removed
> because the texture is objectionable to some people.
>
> Second, if a poisonous mushroom is accidentally included in the batch,
> removing the poison laden peel results in less poison to be ingested.
Also, some wild mushrooms are mildly-to-seriously toxic, but, with
proper processing, are still edible. Peeling before parboiling them
allows more of the toxins to leech out into the parboiling water,
leaving toxin levels in the part of the mushroom that you eat, safe.
I suppose this sounds like an endorsement of poisonous foods, in
response to which I can only say that both salt and water are poisonous
in the right amounts, and that there's a lot of good info on processing
and detoxifying mushrooms in "The Coulour Dictionary of Mushrooms" by
Colin Dickenson and John Lucas, ©1979, 1982 Orbis Publishing, London
ISBN 0-85613-415-5. Not much in the way of recipes, except for things
like, "good sauteed".
Adamantius
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 22:02:11 EST
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - mushrooms
Seton1355 at aol.com writes:
<< I peel my mushrooms because the dirt comes off with the peel and "washing"
/ rubbing them is a pain.
Phillipa Seton >>
Commercially purchased mushrooms should never be washed. The are grown in
STERILE medium and they should only be wiped with a cloth to remove any bits
clinging to them. Washing them causes them to soak up large amounts of liquid
which is not a good thing.
Ras
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:35:18 -0500
From: Jehanne Argentee <jehanne at netzero.net>
Subject: Re: SC - mushrooms
>Seton1355 at aol.com writes:
><< I peel my mushrooms because the dirt comes off with the peel and "washing"
>/ rubbing them is a pain.
> Phillipa Seton >>
>
>Commercially purchased mushrooms should never be washed. The are grown in
>STERILE medium and they should only be wiped with a cloth to remove any bits
>clinging to them. Washing them causes them to soak up large amounts of liquid
>which is not a good thing.
I have to disagree with this. I cook mushrooms on a weekly basis, and have
never had any problems with button mushrooms soaking up liquid when they
were washed. Call me lazy, but if I'm cleaning several pounds of mushrooms,
I'm not going to wipe them one by one with a cloth.
IIRC, Gourmet magazine also did a study on this by weighing out a pound of
mushrooms and a pound of broccoli. They then washed them both, and
reweighed them. The mushrooms had gained the same amount of weight as the
broccoli, a ounce or two, most likely due to not being dried off. No one
accuses broccoli of soaking up water when washed!
On the other hand, I've never had to wash my shitake mushrooms as I grow
them myself and they are spotless when they come off the log, so I have no
idea how mushrooms other than buttons take to being washed.
Jehanne
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:18:40 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - mushrooms
Jehanne Argentee wrote:
> I have to disagree with this. I cook mushrooms on a weekly basis, and have
> never had any problems with button mushrooms soaking up liquid when they
> were washed. Call me lazy, but if I'm cleaning several pounds of mushrooms,
> I'm not going to wipe them one by one with a cloth.
>
> IIRC, Gourmet magazine also did a study on this by weighing out a pound of
> mushrooms and a pound of broccoli. They then washed them both, and
> reweighed them. The mushrooms had gained the same amount of weight as the
> broccoli, a ounce or two, most likely due to not being dried off. No one
> accuses broccoli of soaking up water when washed!
Except that the water that adheres to the little floret buds of broccoli
by capillary action is relatively easy to remove, and doesn't cause the
broccoli to become dark brown and soggy, and to release that much more
liquid in the cooking process.
> On the other hand, I've never had to wash my shitake mushrooms as I grow
> them myself and they are spotless when they come off the log, so I have no
> idea how mushrooms other than buttons take to being washed.
They oxidize very quickly, becoming dark brown and soggy. At least white
champignons, a.k.a. "button mushrooms", do. I will occasionally cut
them, or sometimes leave them whole, rinse them in a colander, and
immediately blanch them or add them to the pan or pot. That works pretty
well. I assume different mushrooms have different enzymes and such, not
to mention a different gill structure and water absorbtion rate. I
haven't dealt with non-gilled mushrooms, such as tubed boletus or
porcinis, in fresh form in sufficient quantity to require washing.
I remember being told by the chef I interned with that people eat ocean
fish for the flavor of the sea, and mushrooms for the flavor of the
forest, and that only a fool would wash the flavor off the mushrooms.
Hey, that's what he said, and it probably makes about as much sense in
the long run as any more scientific explanation, but I used to have to
prep maybe 20 pounds of wild mushrooms in a day, and had to wipe them.
But some were better than others, and you develop a very quick and
discerning eye as to which mushrooms actually need wiping, and which are
all right as is. (Somebody in an event kitchen a while back was very
surprised when I spotted a tiny fish bone in a bowl about twenty feet
away, walked over and removed it, and walked away without saying
anything. I overheard something muttered about Cooks'-Ray Vision.)
Adamantius
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:45:53 -0500
From: "Siegfried Heydrich" <baronsig at peganet.com>
Subject: Re: SC - mushrooms
I cook professionally, and as far as white button mushrooms go, I
usually just rinse them where necessary under running water, caps up.
Sometimes they come in pretty filthy, poorly trained harvesters, I suspect.
Never had a problem with excessive water absorption, but then, I never soak
them, either. If they get wet, you want to use them as soon as possible, or
cover them with a moist towel.
Don't wash Portobellos or any of the spongiform fungi, as they will suck
liquids up like mad and you'll have a fungoo (no fun a-tall!) instead. You
can marinade them, though, (I do a balsamic marinade for Portobellos that'll
blow your toenails off) for an interesting treatment, especially if you
grill them.
Sieggy
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 15:53:04 -0000
From: nanna at idunn.is (Nanna Rognvaldardottir)
Subject: Re: SC - mushrooms
Jehanne said:
>I have to disagree with this. I cook mushrooms on a weekly basis, and have
>never had any problems with button mushrooms soaking up liquid when they
>were washed. Call me lazy, but if I'm cleaning several pounds of mushrooms,
>I'm not going to wipe them one by one with a cloth.
I agree with you. Harold McGee also did a study on this and he says (in The
Curious Cook):
"To test the lore, I weighed out 252 grams of fresh mushrooms on a postal
scale, submerged them in tap water for 5 minutes, blotted the surface
moisture, and reweighed them. The mushrooms now weighed 258 grams, which
meant that 23 mushrooms had absorbed less than half a tablespoon among them,
or a sixteenth of a teaspoon each. That’s after 5 minutes of soaking. It
takes me 5 or 10 seconds to rinse a mushroom, which I now do without the
hint of a second thought."
I always wash mushrooms (they are around 90% water anyway, so what harm
could 1/16 of a teaspoon do?) and I’ve never noted any loss of flavor. I
think this wiping-not-washing is mostly an American thing (although I may be
wrong there); I’ve asked dozens of European chefs and none of them
recommended wiping the mushrooms.
Nanna
Date: 24 Mar 2000 10:30:16 +1100
From: Gwynydd of Culloden <Gwynydd_of_Culloden at freemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: SC - Mushrooms
"Bethany Public Library" (betpulib at ptdprolog.net) wrote:
> I'd like to try this. Can one get sufficient spores from store-bought
> 'shrooms to start one' sown mushroom factory, or do we have to go
> to the expense of getting one of those kits?
>
> Enquiring minds with dark basements need to know!
>
> Aoife
I have a feeling that once the mushroom has opened the spoors are released and thus the answer to your question is no - you can't grow mushrooms from store bought ones (I am perfectly willing to stand corrected on this one).
In terms of the mushroom growing kits, they are not neccessary. For years my mother would buy mushroom compost from a local nursery, put it into garbage (I think) bags on the breakfast deck (well, that is what she called it and she built the house so she should know!) under black polythene sheets. We had mushrooms all year around - but the wooden deck did become stained.
Mushroom compost, she explained to me, is the growing medium used by commercial mushroom growers and they only take the first harvest because it has the most mushrooms. They then sell the compost to nurseries. If anyone is interested in this further, I would be happy to ask her if there were any tricks to growing mushrooms this way. (if we didn't have cats and ducks I would be tempted to have a go at it myself!)
Gwynydd of Culloden (West Kingdom)
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 23:51:46 -0600
From: "RANDALL DIAMOND" <ringofkings at mindspring.com>
Subject: SC - Re: SC Mushrooms
Jehanne asks:
> p.s. Anyone in florida know if we can grow morels down here? I'm
> tempted to start a patch...
Nope, you can't. Morels grow in temperate hardwood forests
which are predominately oak. They require a very rich humus
of rotting leaves and sprout up in the middle spring. I doubt that
anywhere in Florida has anything close to proper growing
environments. The humus rich soil might be right in some
of the St. John's river swamps, but be too wet. These shrooms
grow out of matted layers of rotting oak leaves and wood.
To my knowledge, no one has been able to grow morels
successfully on any kind of commercial venture, so "starting
a patch" is not a possible option. You can't even grow them
if you have ideal woods and perfect conditions. They just
pop up whereever they want to. You have to search diligently
in the proper woodland environs and when you find some, tell
no one as they are not common. Some treasures you just
don't share.
Akim Yaroslavich (Who has been accused of having no morels.)
I'll never tell.
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 07:23:43 -0500
From: Jehanne Argentee <jehanne at netzero.net>
Subject: Growing Shitake Mushrooms OT OOP (was Re: SC - Mushrooms)
>I'd like to try this. Can one get sufficient spores from store-bought
>'shrooms to start one' sown mushroom factory, or do we have to go to the
>expense of getting one of those kits?
>
>Enquiring minds with dark basements need to know!
>
>Aoife
Shitake mushrooms grow on logs or in sawdust, and from what I was told,
need at least indirect sunlight. Forget most of the kits you see, they give
you 1 or 2 harvests... what you want is a Shitake log (6 harvests/year for
2-3 years). This is usually an oak log that has had holes drilled in it,
the spores injected into the holes, then the holes sealed with paraffin.
You then age the log, giving the chance to let all those spores spread
throughout the log. I've got a source in Northern Florida for innoculated,
aged logs in the $14-$20 range.
Once you have your prepped log, stick it somewhere where it will get
watered twice a week (I keep mine in the garden so the irrigation
sprinklers get it).
When you are ready for a harvest, you don't water it for a week. Then soak
it underwater for 24 hours (I submerge mine in an old fishtank, weighed
down with a bag of gravel). After this you want to keep the log damp as
much as possible... mist it as often as you can, and if you can keep it in
a clear plastic bag without boiling it, so much the better. In 3 or so days
you'll see little nubs popping out... almost there. In a few more days
these nubs will be mushrooms. Stop watering, and harvest them. Waiting
won't make them get bigger once they're open, and they are best before the
gills turn black. Once you've harvested, let it rest a month or two, then
harvest again... I try for a harvest every-other month with a log.
Some tricks I've found:
Sink a big eye hook into one end of the log, and you can hang it from a tree.
If you don't get a mushroom harvest, rest the log for 30 days. Then pound
it hard and repeatedly against the concrete. Then soak 24 hours, etc...
don't know why, but it works for me.
Shitake logs give a bigger harvest if you stand it up on an end or hang it
in a tree than if you lay it on its side on the ground.
Some squirrels like shitake mushrooms. If yours develop a taste for
shitakes either make a chickenwire cage and stake it down... or ripen the
log in a greenhouse or sunny enclosed porch. I've had no luck with netting
or plastic bags even slowing squirrels down.
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 07:50:06 -0500
From: Jehanne Argentee <jehanne at netzero.net>
Subject: Re: Growing Shitake Mushrooms OT OOP (was Re: SC - Mushrooms)
>Jehanne Argentee wrote:
>> Sink a big eye hook into one end of the log, and you can hang it from a tree.
>>
>> If you don't get a mushroom harvest, rest the log for 30 days. Then pound
>> it hard and repeatedly against the concrete. Then soak 24 hours, etc...
>> don't know why, but it works for me.
>>
>> Shitake logs give a bigger harvest if you stand it up on an end or hang it
>> in a tree than if you lay it on its side on the ground.
>
>Presumably because mushrooms don't grow between the log and the ground?
>
>Adamantius
Yes, that and the fact that my logs show a strong bias, growing more
mushrooms on one side than another (I think its the side that gets more
sun, but haven't done any real tests). Lay it on its side, and about 1/4 of
the log is productive area. Stand it on its end, and half the log is
heavily productive, with a scattered few on the backside.
Just my experience, folks.
Jehanne
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 13:52:32 -0500
From: Jehanne Argentee <jehanne at netzero.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Growing Shitake Mushrooms OOP
My usual source for Shitake logs is Jody Venn (JVenn48970 at aol.com). They
do ship logs, however there are two problems. First, shipping doubles the
price. Second, Jody hurt her back last year, and wasn't able to innocolate
any logs. So if you want to buy pre-innoculated logs, there probably won't
be anymore for a year. :( For those who live in Florida they usually
teach a workshop in November or December on how to innoculate logs.
However, if you are willing to learn to innoculate logs yourself, there's
another source. The book that is usually recommended is Growing Shiitake in
a Continental Climate by Kozak and Krawczyk. It was written by the people
at Field and Forest Products who also sell top quality spawn. The strain
"west wind" is the one that Jody recommends. If you want to get in contact
with Field and Forest products, their number is 1-800-792-6220. Joe is the
guy to talk to, and feel free to tell Jody referred you.
Jehanne
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 08:10:02 -0500
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Garlic methods - OOP(?)
And it came to pass on 30 Mar 00,, that Philip & Susan Troy wrote:
> This may be a translator's issue, but I'm not aware of a single usage of
> garlic in Apicius De Re Coquinaria. At least not that I can think of
> offhand before my tea is ready...
>
> Adamantius
Flower and Rosenbaum list two recipes with garlic in the index of their
translation, which I believe is a well-accepted one.
Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 12:00:07 -0700
From: "Laura C. Minnick" <lcm at efn.org>
Subject: Re: SC - mushrooms?
Susan Fox-Davis wrote:
> Actually, you don't really see all that many mushroom recipes in the fancy
> folks' cookbooks, do you? I tend to consider mushrooms as peasants' food, mind
> you a lot of peasants' food is tasty and filling and all that, but not as
> well-documented for SCA contest/research purposes.
'Cept of course the lovely 'Funges' recipe- a leek and mushroom soup
(from 14th c._Cury on Inglysche_, I think). Seumas once made it up as a
thick-sauced vegetable dish, as there was a shortage of bowls, and
simply cutting down on the amount of liquid worked wonderfully. I
suspect there may be more but I don't have citations right on top of my
head (nope- just a new crop of white hair...).
'Lainie
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 12:37:21 -0700
From: "E. Rain" <raghead at liripipe.com>
Subject: SC - RE:mushrooms
Par asked:
> Anyone who have seen anything on what kinds of mushrooms was used in
> period?
According to the oxford companion to food, "in classical times both Greeks
and Romans grew the small Agrocybe aegerita (Pholiota)"
Eden Rain
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 20:05:22 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - mushrooms?
selene at earthlink.net writes:
<< I tend to consider mushrooms as peasants' food, >>
In ancient Rome non-citizens were forbidden to eat mushrooms and only
patricians could prepare, cook and serve then. Slaves and freemen were
forbidden to use them or cook them.
Mushrooms were far from 'peasant' food. /A Forme of Curye/ contains a recipe
for 'Funges'.
Ras
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 21:13:09 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - mushrooms?
"Laura C. Minnick" wrote:
> Susan Fox-Davis wrote:
> > Actually, you don't really see all that many mushroom recipes in the fancy
> > folks' cookbooks, do you? I tend to consider mushrooms as peasants' food, mind
> > you a lot of peasants' food is tasty and filling and all that, but not as
> > well-documented for SCA contest/research purposes.
>
> 'Cept of course the lovely 'Funges' recipe- a leek and mushroom soup
> (from 14th c._Cury on Inglysche_, I think). Seumas once made it up as a
> thick-sauced vegetable dish, as there was a shortage of bowls, and
> simply cutting down on the amount of liquid worked wonderfully. I
> suspect there may be more but I don't have citations right on top of my
> head (nope- just a new crop of white hair...).
Also mosserouns yflorys, from one of the early 14th-century
proto-Formes-Of-Cury. (Funges is from FoC, late 14th century.) The
mosserouns dish appears to be of mushroom caps somehow larded, either
with a needle or perhaps by putting a slice of bacon inside the cap;
it's kind of unclear; then it all gets glazed with egg and roasted, then
sprinkled with spice powder, IIRC, although I'm not certain the larded
mushrooms aren't simply scrambled with egg yolks. That, by the way, is,
to me, the recipe in the Anglo-Norman corpus with the second-highest
number of unanswered questions. Old-timers on this list know what comes
first, but let's not go there right now.
Adamantius (remembering a mushroom recipe _and_ a truffle recipe in Apicius?_)
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 21:25:20 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - mushrooms?
Par Leijonhufvud wrote:
> Anyone who have seen anything on what kinds of mushrooms was used in
> period?
>
> /UlfR
There is a description of the mushrooms Le Menagier feels are best for a
pasty; he says the small red ones, still closed at the top, are best.
What variety that translates to is unknown. I think most of the
varieties known and eaten in Europe today were eaten in period (although
truffles seem to have been terrible abused by the Romans).
Whether we can rely on what amounts to historical hearsay in sources
ranging from Pliny to Root on, for example, the kind of mushrooms that
comprised Claudius' last meal, and whether they were a poisonous, or
merely a poisoned, variety, is unknown.
I seem to recall reading that the cultivated champignon (another agarica
mushroom similar to criminis and portobellos, not to mention Apicius's
Horse Mushrooms, still treasured today in Ireland) has been grown
outside Paris and elsewhere since the 12th or 13th century.
A range of suspected period mushrooms for general Ye Olde Medieval
European use would include ceps or boletus edulis, your basic white
gilled agarica champignon (known in the USA as a "mushroom"), morels (I
believe Ein Buoch Von Guter Spise and Welserin mention those), ditto
chanterelles (ditto).
Adamantius
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 23:17:33 -0500
From: "Aeddan ap Trahaearn" <aeddan at the-shores.com>
Subject: Re: SC - mushrooms?
> Anyone who have seen anything on what kinds of mushrooms was used in
> period?
Mary Ella Milham's translation of Platina says:
...The red ones are safest. Next, the white ones are not
disapproved, along with their stalks. A third kind, which they call
sow fungus, is very convenient for poison. It is agreed that Anneus
Serenus, a prefect of Nero, and certain soldiers died from this.
It is allowed in cooking, when it pleases the gluttonous, to use
certain recipes. They have to be cooked with the juicy part of the
stalk by which they cling to earth, first in water with bread crumbs
and then with pears and the shoots and stems of pears. Some put
in garlic, which is thought to counteract poisons. Boiled and
salted, they are fried in oil or fat. When fried they are covered with
a green sauce which is called sauce or with garlic sauce. Some
even cook them with the skin removed or with the upper cap filled
with salt and oil, upside down on the coals, and eat them sprinkled
with pepper or cinnamon. ...
Aeddan ap Trahaearn
Shire of Mooneschadowe
Kingdom of Ansteorra
From: Texqueen2 at aol.com
Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 19:05:47 EDT
Subject: pfifferling mushrooms
To: stefan at florilegium.org
Thank you for posting information about mushrooms on your website! I have
some information which may clear up some confusion amongst the folks writing
to you about mushrooms.
I recently returned from Germany where I ate "pfefferling" mushrooms. The
modern word for "pepper" in German is "pfeffer". These mushrooms, which
appear to be what the French would call "chanterelles", are small, light
orange in color, and have a peppery taste. They are not toxic and are in
season in June, if not before and after. They are used in Italian cooking,
though I do not know the Italian word for them. They are great with pasta
because of their spiciness.
Jeanette B.
ate: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 13:01:33 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - mushroom fibers for clothing???
Fomes fomentarius is a hard, dense basidocarp (a term describing the
sporation structures, which I do not fully understand). It is found in the
Northern Hemisphere. Northern European variants tend to be shaped like a
hoof while Central European variants appear to be more globular.
The interior consists of fine brown fibers, which when broken apart produces
a brown fluff that can be used to pack wounds to staunch blood flow (the
fibers are essentially sterile having been grown inside the shell of the
fungus.
The fibers can be treated (I've never found the specific method) and
hammered to to produce what appears to be a thin flexible leather or cloth
which can be sewn together to produce garments. The hammered fibers also
can serve to keep a coal smoldering without causing a fire.
The fungus has been found inside some 12,000 year old German dwellings and
is believed to have been used on wounds. There are supposed to be some
preserved garments in the Czech Republic. It was known to have been
imported from Norway to England to use as tinder between 1600 and 1750. The
market collapsed when matches (probably the fiber slow match) came into
common use.
See L. Ryvarden and R. L. Gilbertson 1993. European Polypores - part 1, pp.
253-255. Fungiflora, Oslo, Norway.
Bear
> > Subject: Tinder, Zundel
> > Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:02:49 +0100
> > From: Bosse Bengtsson <smapal at algonet.se>
> > To: <stefan at florilegium.org>
> >
> > Stefan,
> >
> > My name is Bo Bengtsson and I’m living in Sweden.
> >
> > At the moment I¥m doing some homework at my school about a mushroom
> > (polyporus) groing on treetrunks named Fomes fomentarius. I know that
> > substance (tinder, Zunder) in this mushroom can be used for making fabrics
> > and clothes, such as caps, shoes and coats. Maybe You can give me some
> > information about the production and use of tinder in fabrics in the
> > Hungaria and Romania? Or do you got any other perons I can contact in this
> > matter?
> > Bo Bengtsson
> > FÂngstv‰gen 22
> > 262 71 Jonstorp
> > Schweden
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 11:00:58 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: transportable nibbles
Olwen the Odd wrote:
> I used tiny portabella mushrooms
"FYI, smaller versions of portobellos are known as crimini mushrooms.
Once they pass a certain size, they are portobellos. They are
botanically and taxonomically similar, but nomenclature depends on size."
Adamantius
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:23:37 -0700
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] How Much Is A Pottle?
Here is the list of ingredients called for in a recipe for Pickled
Champignons from Sir Kenelme Digbie's The Closet Opened
A Pottle of Button Mushrooms, halved or quartered
10 or 12 spoonfuls water
2 or 3 spoonfuls Salt
1 quart white Wine Vinegar
2 or 3 spoonfuls whole peppercorns
20 or 30 Cloves
1 Nutmeg, quartered
2 or 3 flakes of Mace
3 Bay-leaves
How much is a pottle? Some other Elizabethan and Jacobean recipes
call some sort of pot or pan a pottle...
This recipe was sent to this list on Sat, 19 Sep 1998, by
alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming). I found the message in Stefan's
Florilegium. I'm planning to make it for the Boar Hunt in December.
Thanks for any enlightenment
Anahita
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 13:28:38 -0400
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
From: Phil & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] How Much Is A Pottle?
>How much is a pottle? Some other Elizabethan and Jacobean recipes
>call some sort of pot or pan a pottle...
A pottle is about 1/2 gallon.
Adamantius
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 14:00:08 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jeff Heilveil <heilveil at uiuc.edu>
To: Bucatar-sef <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pottle
I just looked this up a little while ago to deal with Digby's Pickled
cucumber recipe.
It's 2 quarts (4 pints).
bogdan
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 11:21:35 -0700
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Help with German Mushroom Recipes
I asked Thomas Gloning off-list if he could send my some "period"
German mushroom recipes. He sent me fifteen in their original
language from Marx Rumpolt. He also mentioned some other books that
had mushroom recipes. He is too busy to translate any or find more. I
really appreciate that he took the time to respond. It's fun having
the challenge of translation from an unfamiliar language.
Last night i partially translated them, in fact i actually only have
a few words left untranslated. Since i don't really speak or read
German, would some folks on the list who do know German be willing to
help me get the last words? I have left them more-or-less literally
translated, although i can "neaten" them up to make them more English.
And if someone can find them, i'd be interested in some of the other
recipes in the other books. Here's what Thomas listed:
>-- In the Buch von guter Speise (garlic sauce for mushrooms)
>-- in the cookbook of the Dorotheenkloster
>-- in the Rheinfr=E4nkisches Kochbuch
>-- in the Mondseer Kochbuch
>-- in the manuscript Basel D II 30
>-- in the K=FCchenmeisterei
>-- in the 1569 Staindl cookbook
>-- in the 1579 Mayr cookbook
>-- in Maister Hanns
>-- in the 1581 Stockalper cookbook
Anahita
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 11:29:02 -0700
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Help with German Mushroom Recipes
There are several different types of mushrooms specified in the
German recipes that Thomas Gloning sent me from Marx Rumpolt.
Keiserling mushrooms
fresh Maurachen mushrooms
dried Maurachen mushrooms
dried Peltz mushrooms (i think i've heard of these)
Redling mushrooms
White mushrooms (i assume champignons, i.e. standard button mushrooms)
Stock mushrooms
Anyone know which ones they mean, in English terms?
Anahita
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 13:02:42 -0700
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] German Mushroom Recipes - Part One
Below are about half the recipes that Thomas Gloning sent me from
Marx Rumpolt. I have only a slight acquaintance with German. First i
translated as much as i could, then i filled in some parts with the
help of a modern German dictionary. I couldn't find some words, so i
left those within the English. And i know i didn't translate
everything right. So i'm sending this here in hopes that some folk on
the list can assist me.
Based on some recipes which i will send in Part Three, i believe that
Maurachen may be Morchen, i.e., morels.
Anahita
----- Part One -----
<<R149b>
119. Nim{b} Keiserling/ welche Schwa:em{m} man gemeiniglich fu:er die
aller besten helt/
wasch sie auss/ pfeffers vnd saltzs/ leg sie auff ein Rosst/ brat vnd
begeuss sie mit Butter/
vnd gib es warm auff ein Tisch/ bestra:ew es mit Pfeffer vnd mit
Saltz/ so seind sie gut vnd wolgeschmack.
119. Take Keiserling/ (or) whichever Mushrooms one generally fu:er
holds these best of all/
wash them off/ pepper and salt (them)/ lay them on a Grill/ roast
(fry) and "gush" them with Butter/
and give them warm on a Plate/ bestrew them with Pepper and with
Salt/ thus are they good and well tasting.
<<R150b>>
135. Nim{b} frische Maurachen/ wasch sie auss zehen Wassern/ steck sie
an ein ho:eltzern Spiess/ vnd bestra:ew sie mit Pfeffer vnd Saltz/ leg
sie auff ein
Rosst/ brat vnd begeuss sie mit Meybutter/ die vngeschma:eltzt ist/ bestra:ew es
mit Saltz vnd Pfeffer/ so werden sie gut vnd wolgeschmack.
135. Take fresh Morels/ wash them in ?ten? Waters/ stick them
on a wooden skewer/ and bestrew them with Pepper and Salt/ lay them on a
Grill/ roast and "gush" them with May butter/ that is unmelted/
bestrew it with Salt and Pepper/ thus are they good and well tasting.
136. Du kanst auch Maurachen auff ein ander manier machen. Wen{n}
sie sauber gewaschen/ so thut man sie in eine Pfannen/ oder in ein Kessel/ thu
Butter/ Pfeffer vnd Saltz/ darein/ lass damit auffsieden/ so geben sie gnu=
gsam
feuchtigkeit von jnen/ lass sie kurtz eynsieden. Vnnd wenn du schier wilt
anrichten/ so thu darein gru:ene wolschmeckende Kra:euter/ die klein
gehackt seyn/
so werden sie gut vnd wolgeschmack.
136. You can also make Morels in an other manner. When
they are washed clean/ then one does them in a Pan/ or in a Kettle/ do
Butter/ Pepper and Salt/ therein/ let seethe therewith/ then give them enough
Moisture (of/from) jnen/ let them seethe a short (time). And when you will
cause schier/ so do therein green well-tasting Herbs/ that are chopped small/
Thus are they good and well tasting.
137. Klaub die gro:essten Maurachen/ die fein gantz seyn/ auss/ die kleine
aber druck wol auss/ dass kein Wasser darinnen ist/ hack sie klein. Nim{b} Eyer/
schlag sie wol durcheinander/ vn{d} lass durch ein Ha:erin Tuch
lauffen/ thu gru:ene
wolschmeckende Kra:euter/ die klein gehackt seyn/ darvnter/ thu auch die
klein gehackte Maurachen darvnter. Nim{b} Butter in ein Pfann/ mach sie
heiss/ vnd thu die Maurachen vnd Eyer darein/ mach ein eyngeru:ertes/ vnd
thu es widerumb auff ein Sack/ vnnd hacks klein/ dass wol durcheinander
kompt/ pfeffers vnd gelbs/ saltzs/ vnd fu:ell die Maurachen darmit/ thu sie in
ein vberzindten Fischkessel/ mit frischer vnzerlassener Butter/ auch ein wenig
Pfeffer/ geuss ein wenig Erbessbru:eh daru:eber/ Saltz/ vnnd gru:ene Kra:euter/
die klein gehackt seyn/ setz auffs Feuwer/ vnd lass sieden/ dass ein kurtze Bru:eh
<<R151a>>
gewinnet/ so wirt es gut vnd wolgeschmack. Vnd solche Maurachen/ die
zugericht seyn/ kan man auch wol braten/ oder in Pasteten eynmachen. Du
kanst sie auch mit Rindtfleischbru:eh kochen an einem Fleischtage/ so werden
sie auch gut vnd wolgeschmack.
137. Select the biggest Morels/ that are entirely fine/ off (in)-out
of-away from/ these small
aber squeeze well off/ that no Water thereon is/ hack them small. Take Eggs/
beat them well "thorough one another"/ and leave (let) to drain
through a Hair Cloth/
do green well tasting Herbs/ that are chopped small/ there-over/
do also these finely chopped Morels there-over. Take Butter in a Pan/
make them hot/ and do these Morels and Eggs therein/ make an eyngeru:ertes/ and
do it widerumb on-in a Sack/ and hack small/ that well through one
another (thoroughly)
come/ pepper and yellow (them)/ salt (them)/ and fill these Morels
therewith/ do them in
an vberzindten Fish kettle/ with fresh vnzerlassener Butter/ also a little
Pepper/ pour a little Pea broth there over/ Salt/ and green Herbs/
that are chopped small/ set on the Fire/ and let seethe/ that a short Broth
<<R151a>>
is obtained/ so it is good and well tasting. And such Morels/ that
are prepared/ one can also well roast (fry)/ or make in Pastry. You
can also cook them with Beef flesh broth on a Flesh day/ Thus are
they also good and well tasting.
[In recipe 137, i get the impression that one keeps the biggest
Morels, but chops up the small ones. Then one beats eggs, adds
chopped herbs and the small mushrooms finely chopped. Then one cooks
this egg-mushroom mix in butter in a pan. To this is added salt and
pepper and it is "yellowed" - i'm not sure if the "yellow" is to cook
until golden brown, or if saffron is added to impart a yellow color.
Either way, then this egg- mushroom mixture is stuffed into the big
mushroom caps. The stuffed caps are put in a deep pot with butter and
pepper. Then some pea broth is poured over. They are seasoned with
salt and more finely chopped herbs. And this is simmered over a fire
until the moisture comes out of the mushroom caps - i.e., it is done.]
138. Nim{b} Maurachen/ quell sie in einem Wasser/ druck das Wasser
widerumb davon/ hack sie klein mit gru:enen wolschmeckenden Kra:eutern/ thu
sie in heisse Butter/ vnd ro:esst sie/ nim{b} alsdenn Eyer/ die
auffgeschlagen seyn/
saltzs/ pfeffers/ machs gelb/ vnd ru:ers vnter die Maurachen/ so wirdt es gut
vnd wolgeschmack. Also kocht man Lungenmuss von Maurachen.
138. Take Morels/ soak them in one Water/ squeeze that Water
widerumb from (off) them/ hack them small with green well-tasting Herbs/ do
them in hot Butter/ and grill (cook/fry) them/ then also take Eggs/
that are beaten/
salt (them)/ pepper (them)/ make gold/ and ru:ers under these Morels/
thus are they good
and well tasting. Also one cooks Lung mousse of Maurachen.
139. Nim{b} du:erre Maurachen/ weich sie in Wein/ vnd lass ein stundt darinnen
ligen/ so lauffen sie fein auff/ steck sie an ein Spiess/ bestra:ew sie mit
Pfeffer vnd Saltz/ leg sie auff ein Rosst/ vnd brat sie geschwindt hinweg/
begeuss mit frischer Butter/ vn{d} gibs warm auff ein Tisch/ bestra:ew es mit
Pfeffer vnd saltz/ so ist es gut vnd wolgeschmack.
139. Take dried Morels/ soak them in Wine/ and leave an hour therein
lie/ so drain them fine off/ stick them on a skewer/ bestrew them with
Pepper and Salt/ lay them on a Grill/ and roast (fry) them quickly hinweg/
"gush" with fresh Butter/ and give warm on a Plate/ bestrew it with
Pepper and salt/ so is it good and well tasting.
140. Du magst auch solche Maurachen zum eynmachen nemmen mit
ein wenig Erbessbru:eh/ Butter/ vnd ges[t]ossenen Pfeffer/ vnd mit gru:e=
nen
wolschmeckenden Kra:eutern/ die klein gehackt seyn/ lass darmit resch eyn=
sieden/
dass ein kurtze Bru:eh gewinnt/ so wirt es gut vnd wolgeschmack.
140. You make also such Morels zum eynmachen nemmen with
a little pea broth / Butter/ and brayed Pepper/ and with green
well-tasting Herbs/ that are chopped small/ leave therewith briefly
[resch==lit. crisp, sharp] to seethe in/
that a short (a little) Broth is obtained/ so is it good and well tasting.
(to be continued)
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 13:46:41 -0700
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] German Mushroom Recipes - Part Two
Below are the other half the recipes that Thomas Gloning sent me from
Marx Rumpolt. Again, i've mostly translated them, but still don't
know some words and have probably incorrectly interpreted others.
Thanks for any help
Anahita
----- Part Two -----
<<R153a>>
164. Nim{b} du:erre Peltzschwammen/ lass sie vber Nacht in Wasser weichen/
vnnd wenn du es wilt zusetzen/ so thu geschweisste Zwibeln darein/ mit
eyngebrenntem Mehl/ geuss Erbessbru:eh oder Wasser daru:eber/ vnd lass ein
stundt oder zwo fein gemach damit sieden/ wu:ertz es ab mit Pfeffer/ Saffran
vnd Jngwer/ machs saur/ dass mans kan essen/ vnd schaw versaltz es nicht/ so
ist es gut vnnd wolgeschmack. Denn in Bo:ehmen ist es ein gemein essen von
diesen Schwam{m}en. Vnd man kan sie auch wol hacken wie ein Lungenmuss/
vnd man kans auch zurichten mit Eyern vnnd Essig/ ist es gut vnnd
wolgeschmack.
164. Take dried Peltz mushrooms/ leave them over Night in Water to soak/
and when You will press them/ then do drained Zwibeln therein/ with
burnt (toasted) meal (flour)/ pour Pea broth or Water there over/ and let one
hour or two fine to make it seethe therewith/ spice it up with Pepper/
Saffron and Ginger/ make sour/ that one can eat/ and see it is not over-salted/
thus it is good and well tasting. Then in Bo:ehmen is it a common to eat of
these Mushrooms. And one can also well chop them such as for a Lung pudding/
and one can also prepare with Eggs and Vinegar/ it is good and
well tasting.
<<R154b>>
188. Nim{b} Redling Schwammen/ schel vnnd wasch sie auss/ saltz vnnd
pfeffer sie/ leg sie auff ein Rosst/ vnnd brats/ begeuss mit Butter/ vnnd gibs
warm auff ein Tisch/ bestra:ew es mit Pfeffer vnd Saltz/ so ist es auch gut vnd
wolgeschmack. Du magsts auch wol fricusiern in Butter/ mit gru:ene{n}
Kra:eutern/ Pfeffer vnd Saltz/ so ist es auch gut.
188. Take Redling Mushrooms/ peel and wash them off/ salt and pepper them/
lay them on a Grill/ and roast (fry)/ "gush" with Butter/ and give
warm on a Plate/
bestrew them with Pepper and Salt/ thus it is also good and well tasting.
You make also well fricassee in Butter/ with green Herbs/ Pepper and
Salt/ thus is it also good.
189. Du kanst auch die Redling fein klein hacken/ vnd auss Butter ro:ssten/
geuss su:esse Milch darvnter/ pfeffers vnd gelbs/ vnnd versaltz sie nicht/
so werden sie gut vnd wolgeschmack.
189. You can also chop these fine [?little] Redling small/ and grill
(cook/fry?) in Butter/
pour sweet Milk there-over/ pepper and yellow (them)/ and over-salt them not/
thus they are good and well tasting.
190. Nim{b} Redling Schwammen/ saltz sie eyn mit Wacholderbeern/
vnnd mit Ku:emel/ beschwer sie wol mit Steinen/ so werden sie viel Bru:eh
geben/ geuss ein theil Bru:eh weg/ vnd lass also bleiben/ so halten sie
sich Jar vnd
Tag. Vnd wenn du sie wilt zurichten/ es sey zum kochen oder zum Braten/
so legs herauss/ vnnd wasch auss/ lass ein stundt oder zwo im Wasser ligen/
so zeucht es das Saltz herauss/ werden fein frisch/ als wenn man sie
erst abgebrochen
hett/ so magstu sie zum Backen oder eynmachen nemmen/ oder
magst sie fricusiern in Butter/ vnnd wol pfeffern/ mit gru:enen Kra:eutern/
so werden sie auch nicht bo:ess.
190. Take Redling Mushrooms/ salt (i.e., season) them eyn with juniper berries/
and with Caraway/ weight them well with Stones/ then weden them much Broth
give/ pour a theil Broth away/ and let then stay/ then keep them (by
themselves) a Year and
Day. And when you would prepare them/ it is to cook or to roast (fry)/
then lay hereon/ and wash off/ let (them) lie in Water an hour or two/
then draw it that Salt herein/ become fine fresh-new [as if fresh?]/
then when one them first abgebrochen
hett/ then you make them to Bake or eynmachen nemmen/ or
make them fricassee in Butter/ and well pepper/ with green Herbs/
thus are they also not bad.
<<R155a>>
196. Schwammen. Weiss bitter Schwam{m}en wasch auss/ pfeffers vnd
saltzs/ so legt man es auff ein Rosst/ bra:ets vnd begeusst es mit Butter.
Vnd wenn sie gebraten seyn/ so gib es warm auff ein Tisch/ bestra:ew es mit
Pfeffer vnd Saltz/ so werden sie desto besser.
196. Mushrooms. White bitter Mushrooms wash off/ pepper and
salt (them)/ then one lays them on a Grill/ roast (fry) and "gush"
them with Butter.
And when they are roasted (fried)/ then give them warm on a Plate/
bestrew them with
Pepper and Salt/ thus are they all the more better.
197. Weiss Schwammen/ die auff der Heiden wachsen/ nimpt man/
schelt sie/ wa:escht sie auss/ vnd thut sie in zwo Schu:essel/ setzt es
auff Kolen/
so wirdt ein schwartz Wasser herauss rinnen/ geuss dasselbige hinweg/ nim{b} die
Schwammen/ pfeffers vnd saltzs/ legs auff den Rosst/ vnnd brats/ begeuss
mit heisser Butter/ gibs warm auff ein Tisch/ bestra:ew es mit Pfeffer vn{d} mit
Saltz/ so werden sie gut vnd wolgeschmack.
197. White Mushrooms/ that grow in the Heath/ one takes/
peels them/ washes them off/ and does them in two Tureens/ set it on Coals/
thus will a black Water herein run/ pour dasselbige hinweg [pour this
off?]/ take these
Mushrooms/ pepper and salt (them)/ lay on the Grill/ and roast (fry)/
"gush" with hot Butter/ give warm on a Plate/ bestrew it with Pepper and with
Salt/ thus are they good and well tasting.
198. Nim{b} Stockschwammen/ zerschneidt/ vnd wasch sie auss/ quell sie
im Wasser/ ku:el sie auss/ vnd druck das Wasser wol davon/ hack sie klein/ vnd
ro:esst sie auss heisser Butter/ geuss su:esse Milch daru:eber/ lass auch
damit sieden/
pfeffers/ saltzs/ vn{d} thu gru:ene wolschmeckende Kra:euter/ die klein gehackt
seyn/ darein/ so seind sie gut vnd wolgeschmack.
198. Take Stock mushrooms/ cut/ and wash them off/ soak them
in Water/ ku:el them off/ and squeeze that Water off well/ chop them small/ and
grill them in hot Butter/ pour sweet Milk there over/ let also
therewith seethe/
pepper (them)/ salt (them)/ and do green well-tasting Herbs/ that are
chopped small/
therein/ thus are they good and well tasting.
199. Stockschwammen mit Eyern gekocht/ seind auch nicht bo:ess.
199. Stock mushrooms cooked with Eggs / are also not bad.
----- to be continued -----
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 16:35:21 -0700
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Cc: grasse at mscd.edu
Subject: [Sca-cooks] German Mushroom Recipes - Part Three
After the first batch, and knowing that Thomas is very busy, i was
astonished to receive another message from him with the recipes below.
Thomas is incredibly generous with his time and knowledge - as are so
many folks on this list.
The dialect is very different - or at least how it is written - in
these recipes from Rumpolt - there's almost 150 years between Rumpolt
and some of these - and was much more difficult for me to figure out.
It looks to me like the "sz" == "ss" and the "cz" == "tz" in the
Rheinfra:nkisches Kochbuch and Kochbuch der Handschrift, and like
they sometimes use "p" where later there is "b".
Anahita
----- Part Three -----
Here are some more German mushroom recipes.
Best, Th.
Ein Buch von guter Speise (c. 1350)
A garlic sauce for mushrooms
32. Ein geriht.
Rib knobelauch mit saltze - die haubt schele schone - vnd menge
sehs eyer dar zv:o on daz wisse vnd nim ezzig vnd ein wenic
wazzers dar zv:o, niht zv:o sur, vnd la daz erwallen, daz ez dicke
blibe. damit mac man machen gebratene hu:enner, morchen oder
swemme oder waz du wilt. (ed. Hajek, #32)
English translation:
"32. A dish.
Crush garlic with salt, peel the bulbs well and mix with
six eggs without the egg whites and add vinegar and a small amount of
water, not too sour, and bring it to a boil so that it remains thick.
You can use that for grilled chicken, morels, or
mushrooms, or anything you want."
(tr. Melitta Weiss Adamson, Das buoch von guoter spise, Krems 2000, p. 99).
Parallelrezept im Mondseer Kochbuch (Cod. vind. 4995; 15. Jh.)
[30] Wie man sallsen macht u:ber h:nner mauroch vnd Swamen
Reib knobloch mit saltz vnd meng aier dar zu:o tu:o das
weis ab von den aieren nim essig vnd ain wenig
wassers das es nicht zu:o saur werde vnd la das
erwallen das es dik pleib da mit mag man machen
praten hu:ner morchen oder swammen
(fol. 199a; cf. Nauwerck, p. 17 & 47).
[30] How one makes sauce over hens, morels and Mushrooms
Crush garlic with salt and mix eggs thereto that have had the
whites removed from the eggs. Take vinegar and a little
water so that it is not too sour and let that
boil that it stays thick. There with may one make
roasted hens, morels, or mushrooms. [my rough translation]
Morel-pudding
79. Ein mu:os.
Der wo:elle machen ein morchen mu:os, der nem morchen vnd erwelle
daz vz einem brunnen. vnd geballen vz eime kalden wazzer. vnd
gehacket cleine vnd tu:o ez denne in ein dicke mandel milich. vnd
mit wine wol gemacht die mandel milich vnd die morche dor
inne erwellet. vnd tu:o dorzv:o wu:ertze genu:oc. vnd ferve ez mit
fial blu:omen vnd gibz hin. (ed. Hajek, #79)
English translation:
"79. A pudding.
Whoever wants to make a morel-pudding, take morels, and bring to a boil
in springwater. Rinsed in cold water,
chopped up small, and then put it in thick almond milk.
The almond milk prepared well in wine, and the morels
brought to a boil in it. Add enough seasoning, color it with
violets, and serve"
(tr. Melitta Weiss Adamson, Das buoch von guoter spise, Krems 2000, p. 108).
Kochbuch aus dem Wiener Dorotheenkloster, Cod. vind. 2897 (15. Jh.)
Ein gmu:es von swamen
(W)Jldu gmu:s machen von swam so nym sie in dem mayn
ab raysling vnd ro:tling dy hakch klain vnd loss
trukchen so machtu sy lang halten in der vasten sie sein
als ich das sagen mues sy weren vor vasnacht auch guet
du macht sy haben wi lang du wild (fol. 14b; cf. Aichholtzer, p. 310)
A pudding of mushrooms
If you want pudding made from mushrooms then take them in dem mayn
of raysling and ro:tling them chop small and let
trukchen so make you them long hold in the vasten them their
als ich das sagen pudding sy weren vor vasnacht auch guet
you make them haben however long you will (fol. 14b; cf. Aichholtzer, p. 310)
aber ain veyal mu:s
(N)Jm morchen erwelle die in pru:n wasser vnd pall
sy aus in ain kalcz wasser vnd tue sy dann in ein
dikche mandl milch vnd mit //mit\\ wein wol
gemacht vnd erwell das vnd tu: gwu:rtz genu:g
dartzue. verb es mit veial pluemen gib ez hin versalcz
nicht. (fol. 16b; cf. Aichholzer, p. 318)
Another veyal pudding
Take morels soak them in pru:n water and pull
them out in a cold water and do them then in a
thick almond milk and well made with wine
and boil that and do spices enough
thereto. verb it with much pluemen give it in over-salt
not.
Rheinfra:nkisches Kochbuch, c. 1445
||44|| Wiltu gebacken morach machen so nym clein morech vnd wesche sie
schon vnde snyde die bu:czelin dauon vnd mach einen dunnen deig von
wyszem mele vnde gusz enwenig wins dar ane vnd ferbe isz vnd czu:ch die
morach da durch vnd backe sij
||44|| If you would make baked morels so take small morels and wash them
clean and cut the bu:czelin [stems?] from/off them and make a thin dough of
white meal-flour and pour a little wins there on and color it and close the
morels there in and bake them
Kochbuch der Handschrift, UB Basel D II 30
31. Ein essen von morchen vmb weinnachten
Wiltu machen vmb weinachten morchen essen so mach einen taig ausz
weissen melb prott vnd sla ayer dor an vnd mach zwen knobel vnd wirffs
in den taig vnd zeuch sie dor vmb vnd legs in ein smalcz daz nicht zu
heisz ist vnd wen es ein wenig gepach so nym es her wider ausz vnd sne=FFd
es do mitten auf dem knobel von ein ander vnd full es domit einem
gerurten a=FFeren taig weisz oder gru:n oder mit gepranten opffell in honig
vnd nym denn einen linden strauben taig vnd zeuch es dor durch vnd leg
ez in ein smalcz wil aber er es aber keren so mach ein gelbes platt vnd
secz dy morchen dor ein vnd la sie pachen vnd richt es an vnd versalcz
es nit
31. A food of morels of weinnachten
If you wish to make a weinachten morel dish so make a dough of
white bread flour and beat eggs there in and make ten garlic cloves and toss
in the dough and close them there in and lay in fat that is not too
hot and when it is a little baked so take it her wider out and cut
it do with auf the garlic from an other and fill it therewith a
gerurten eggs dough white or green or with roasted apples in honey
and take then a linden strauben dough and close it there in and lay
it in fat wil aber er es aber keren so make a yellow/golden leaf (crust) and
set the morels there on and let them bake and richt it in/on and over-salt
it not
46. Ein essen von gesulczten morchen
So full dy morchen mit einer guten full von e=FFren an spissel vnd prott
sie schon vnd geusz dor ein ein gute prw:- dy gemacht se=FF vonn
gesultzten vischen oder sust ein gut prw d=FF gemacht sey von guten dingen
46. A dish of gesulczten morels
So fill the morels with a good fill of eggs and spissel and roast
them nicely and pour there on a good broth made of
salt fish or sust a good broth made of good things
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 11:30:51 -0600
From: Mem Morman <mem.morman at oracle.com>
Organization: Oracle Corporation
Subject: [Sca-cooks] cheese and mushroom tarts - reprise
Cordelia's Cheese and Mushroom Tarts
"MUSHROOMS of one night are the best and they are little and red
within and closed at the top; and they must be peeled and then washed in
hot water and parboiled and if you wish to put them in a pasty add oil,
cheese and spice powder. Item, put them between two dishes on the coals
and then add a little salt, cheese and spice powder." Le Menagier de
Paris, 1395
I know lots of people in the SCA who make these tarts in various ways,
but since eating Cordelia=E2=80=99s tarts in about 1993 I've never bothered
to try anything else. These are wonderful. They are fantastic. They
might be better than sex. No matter how many you make, there will
never, ever be any left and people will still be asking for more.
INGREDIENTS:
1/2 lb mushrooms
1/2 lb grated cheddar cheese
1/2 teaspoon salt
2 tablespoons olive oil
4 grinds fresh black pepper
1/4 teaspoon dry mustard powder
1/4 teaspoon garlic
Prepared pie crust
PROCEDURE:
=C2=B7 Preheat oven to 400o (F).
=C2=B7 Cut out 48 2" rounds from the pie crusts.
=C2=B7 Line cup cake tins with half of the pie crusts, pierce with fork.
=C2=B7 Meanwhile, bring pot of lightly salted water to boil. Clean and trim
mushrooms. Lightly parboil them in boiling water (30 seconds)
=C2=B7 Drain mushrooms, pat dry, and chop or slice them thinly.
=C2=B7 Add oil, cheese, and seasonings. Mix to blend.
=C2=B7 Fill prepared pie crusts almost full.
=C2=B7 Top with reserved pie crust rounds. Seal with a beaten egg brushed
around the edges. Pierce top once to vent.
=C2=B7 Bake 15-18 minutes or until golden brown.
From: "Jeff Gedney" <Gedney1 at iconn.net>
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: RE: mushrooms (was Re: [Sca-cooks] Playing around in the kitchen.)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 10:58:23 -0400
> I always understood that you don't wash mushrooms because they absorb
> water, unless you're going to be cooking them in something liquid like
> soup or stew. Then there's my mother, who always insisted that you must
> wash the mushrooms.
I saw Alton Brown put the kabosh on the "Washing adds water" hoakum.
He took on pound of mushrooms washed them in a colander and dried them with
a towel. The amount of weight (and therefore water) they gained was insignificant. The equivalent of less than a third of a teaspoon of water in a pound of mushrooms.
I wash my mushrooms these days and have noticed no change in the overall
quality of my product.
Just dry the mushrooms with a quick wipe of a paper towel.
(most commercial mushrooms are grown in a sterile medium, and the black
stuff wont kill you, anyway)
Brandu
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 10:06:16 -0400
From: Daniel Myers <doc at medievalcookery.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Funges as a soup?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
On Friday, August 1, 2003, at 09:37 AM, <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net> wrote:
> One of the first hot dayboards I did, I included a mushroom soup
> (recommended by others) which, on later examination, turned out to be
> Funges with a lot of broth. I am wondering if there are any text clues in
> the original that I'm not seeing that preclude it being made as a soup:
> "12. Funges. Take funges and pare hem clene, and dyce hem; take leke
> and shrede hym small, and do hym to seeþ in gode broth. Colour it with
> safroun, and do þerinne powdour fort. "
Ok, this one's from Forme of Cury.
Of the recipes immediately preceeding it in the source text, about 50%
are labeled "potage". Not much of a clue, but at least the book does
include some soup-like recipes.
Now as for the recipe itself; note that it says "pare hem clene, and
dyce hem", using the word "them" to refer to the mushrooms, but later
says "Colour it with safroun". This suggests to me that the "it"
refers to the entire dish - the mushrooms and leeks in the broth.
All in all, I don't feel that it's a stretch to interpret this dish as
a soup or stew. In fact, thanks for bringing it up - I'm adding it to
my list of recipes to try.
- Doc
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Edouard Halidai (Daniel Myers)
http://www.medievalcookery.com/
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 07:28:09 -0700
From: Sue Clemenger <mooncat at in-tch.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Yummy website
To: "SCA Cooks' List" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Hey, everybody. I ran across this website a bit ago, when I was
googling for "herbes de provence."
They have some amazing dried mushrooms and truffle products and other
nummy stuff, so of course, I thought of this list.
They have juniper berries, too! ;o)
http://www.jrmushroomsandspecialties.com/index.html">http://www.jrmushroomsandspecialties.com/index.html
--maire, who is now craving a mushroom omelet for breakfast....sigh....
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 18:59:46 -0500
From: "a5foil" <a5foil at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] recipe using portabela mushrooms?
To: <jah at twcny.rr.com>, "Cooks within the SCA"
<sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
I asked Tom about portabellas, and am forwarding his reply.
(From me:)
Got a question on the Cook's List about portabellas. I seem to remember you telling me they are a modern creation? If so, where did you get the info?
(From Thomas:)
I don't remember my source for that. A cursory search on the Internet reveals some interesting information, though, from the Mushroom Council, and many other sources like mushroomexpert.com. Google "portabella mushroom history", "crimini mushroom history", "agricus bisporus".
Tricky question, actually. Kind of like broccoli.
The common white button mushroom is the agaricus bisporus.
The crimini mushroom is a recently developed brown strain of agaricus
bisporus.
The "portabella" is a crimini mushroom allowed to grow an additional 6-7 days. The name is a product of American marketing, developed to sell crimini mushrooms that had grown past their perceived prime. So called Baby Portabellas, are crimini mushrooms that were allowed to open, but not mature.
Depending on the grower they are called Portabella, Portabello, Portobella or Portobello.
Mushroomexpert.com says the American commercial mushroom industry recently developed the brown strain, calling the button form "Crimini", and those allowed to mature "Portabellas" or "Portobellos". No references.
Agaricus bisporus is the cultivated relative of the wild agaricus campestris mushroom. There are, however, some native populations of agaricus bisporus in California, but almost all other a. bisporus wild and cultivated have European genetic roots. Aside from the native populations, almost all occurring a. bisporus in North America can be traced back to escapees from commercial mushroom farms in Pennsylvania (and from spores scattered to the winds from trucks carrying them to market).
Many sites say that button mushrooms were first cultivated in the mid 17th century in Paris, by melon farmers who discovered that they could grow mushrooms in quantity in their melon fields.
So. Did medieval Europeans eat button mushrooms? Some did. Common thinking in England though, right up to the 17th century, was that most mushrooms were vile. Cf. Gerard's Herbal and other writings. The French, Spanish and Italians, however, loved mushrooms. Boletus (bolets) and agaricus (agaric) mushrooms appear in the Catalan mss from 1324.
Did medieval Europeans cultivate them? Maybe, but the earliest people seem to know of is mid-17th century Paris, right at the end of period. Could medieval Europeans have eaten what we know as Portabellas? Not if the strain wasn't created until recently in America.
Could medieval Europeans have eaten mature agaricus bisporus? Sure.
So, while the specific strain marketed as Portabella likely isn't period, the agaricus bisporus species of which it is a variety is certainly old enough to have been eaten in period, even though it wasn't grown commercially until the end of period. The French, Italians and Spanish may have been eating something very similar to the Portabella. We can't really say with certainty.
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:08:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Louise Smithson <helewyse at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: recipe using portabela mushrooms?
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
The Italians certainly loved mushrooms, their cookbooks are replete
with recipes, the trick is trying to match the common name used in the
Italian manuscripts with the Latin or common english name (I generally
use the latin, less room for confusion).
Anyway I am cooking mushrooms this weekend as part of my feast and the
recipe is specifically for agaricus sp. or the field mushroom
(technically the field mushroom in England is the Agaricus campestris
closely related but not identical to the Agaricus bisporus).
Taken from: 2. astelvetro, G., Brieve racconto di tutte le radici, di
tutte l'erbe e di tutti i frutti che crudi o cotti in Italia si
mangiano. 1614, In Londra, M.DC.XIV.
De’ fonghi prataioli [2]
Io mi son riserbato a ragionar qui de’ fonghi, nonostante che nella
primavera e nell’estate in Italia ne nascano (come ancora in questa
fertilissima isola, dove ancora sono da pochi conosciuti), e a studio
ho ciò fatto per trovarsene maggior diversità in questa stagione che
nelle altre si facci. Per la qual cosa iodico che quelli che nella
primavera si trovano son piccioli, bianchi di fuori via e di dentro
incarnatini, e sono assai duri, e per nascere ne’ prati prataiuoli
s’appellano, e son molto buoni senza esser mai nocivi; né per mangiarli
si fa loro alto che mondarli dalla tenera pellicina che gli cuopre;
poi, posti in un pentolino con un poco d’acqua, ma olio assai overo
butiro, con sale, aglio, pepe e una onesta quantità di buone erbette,
si fanno a lento fuoco cuocere. E così chi ne mangia e no se ne lecca
le dita non istimo che quel tale s’intenda bene della vera boccolica.
Of the meadow mushroom [2]
I reserve my reasoning about these mushrooms, not withstanding that in
the spring and in the summer in Italy they are born (like also in this
fertile island, where there are still little known). In the studies I
have made to find the major differences in the seasons and in the other
way they grow. For this I will say that those that one finds in the
spring are small, white outside and on the inside rose colored and they
are firm enough and they are born in the meadows after which they are
named. And they are very good without much of evil. For eating, first
peel them of the tender skin which covers them, then place them in a
an with a little bit of water, and enough oil or butter, with salt,
garlic, pepper and an honest quantity of good herbs. One makes them by
cooking over a slow fire. And thus one eats them and one can not help
but lick ones fingers because of the wonderful taste.
* The meadow mushroom is a species of Agaricus, as is the standard
white mushroom found in every grocery store.
Braised mushrooms
Ingredients
1 lb mushrooms, washed and sliced
1 clove garlic crushed
1 tablespoon olive oil
1 tablespoon frsh chopped parsley
1/2 teaspoon dried herbs, marjoram, oregano, thyme
salt to taste
Method
Heat the oil over medium heat, add the garlic, mushrooms and dried
herbs. Sauté gently in their own juice until the mushrooms are tender.
Sprinkle with chopped parsley just before service.
Note: the garlic was omitted from this dish for feast because of a
desire not to serve two dishes with garlic in one course.
Helewyse
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 22:38:05 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] recipe using portabela mushrooms
To: <jah at twcny.rr.com>, "Cooks within the SCA"
<sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
>>>>>
I was wondering if anyone would have any period recipes or references
that would us Portabella mushrooms?
Jules/Mistress Catalina
<<<<<
From Libro della cucina del secolo XIV:
fungi di monte
Togli fungi di monte,e lessali: e gittatene via l'acqua, mettili poi a
friggere con cipolla tritata minuto, o con bianco di porro, spezie e
sale e da a mangiare.
Mountain Mushrooms
Take mountain mushrooms and boil them: and discard the water, then fry
them with finely sliced onion, or with white of leek, spices and salt, and
serve.
I first encountered this in The Medieval Kitchen which uses 1 pinch each of
finely ground pepper, ground ginger and freshly grated nutmeg and two pinches of ground coriander seed for the spicing.
The actual type of mushrooms being called for is unknown, but it is very
tasty with whole criminis and should work with diced portabellos.
Bear
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:46:56 -0500
From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] recipe using portabela mushrooms?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
> Mountain Mushrooms
>
> Take mountain mushrooms and boil them: and discard the water, then fry them
> with finely sliced onion, or with white of leek, spices and salt, and
> serve.
It's even quite nice with plain commercial mushrooms, we made it last
night (spices were ginger, mace and pepper).
--
-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 17:49:26 -0400
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd at gate.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Need a stuffed mushroom recipe
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Was written:
> I'm doing my first feast (EEK!) in December, and due
> to the theme (inspired by Platina's Laurel Fritters) I
> find myself in need of a stuffed mushroom recipe.
>
> (It's a long story, and I'll explain it all in due
> time.)
>
> The feast is primarly Late-ish French, so something
> along those lines would be cool. If not, I'll work
> with it. Anyone have any ideas?
How about an adapation of "Mushroom Tarts" from page 97 of "Early French
Cookery" out of "Menagier de Paris".
It has a blind baked pastry shell, mushrooms, and a cheese and spice topping
on the mushrooms. You could use Portobellas and do without the the pastry
or go with one of the two varients listed. The first varient does without
the pastry and I would guess is something of a casserole the second creates
a mushroom spice and cheese Rissole stuffing.
Daniel
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 23:51:26 -0400
From: Barbara Benson <voxeight at gmail.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Rumpoldt Mushroom Recipe - Redaction
T: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Tonight I began the process of picking dishes for my next feast. For
my first redaction I chose one of the 23 Mushroom recipes that Anahita
was so kind to translate for us and post.
[See this file: 23-Ger-Mushrm-art - Stefan]
I am at a loss as to what a Peltz mushroom is. And I have been able to
find very little information on the origins of mushrooms as far as
what was common in which country - I am guessing I just do not know
where to look. I decided that the deciding factors on what mushroom I
would use (since this is for a feast) will be availability and cost. I
went to several local farmers markets and decided on dried Porcinis
and dried Black Trumpets (which I have determined are black versions
of the chantarelle I think) for an initial try. I made two batches
tonight and they are cooling on the stove right now. I am going to put
some in the 'fridge and some into the freezer and see what happens.
Rumpoldt
<<R15a>>
164. Nim{b} düerre Peltzschwammen/ lass sie vber Nacht in Wasser
weichen/ vnnd wenn du es wilt zusetzen/so thu geschweisste Zwibeln
darein/ mit eyngebrenntem Mehl/ geuss Erbessbrüeh oder Wasser
darüeber/ vnd lass ein stundt oder zwo fein gemach damt sieden/
wüertz es ab mit Pfeffer/ Saffran vnd Jngwer/ machs saur/ dass mans
kan essen/ vnd schaw versaltz es nicht/ so ist es gut vnnd
wolgeschmack.
Denn in Böehmen ist es ein gemein essen von diesen Schwam{m}en. Vnd
man kan sie auch wol hacken wie ei Lungenmuss/ vnd man kans auch
zurichten mit Eyern vnnd Essig/ ist es gut vnnd wolgeschmack.
164. Take dried Peltz mushrooms/ leave them over Night in Water to
soak/and when You wish, set them on (the fire to cook them) then put
briefly fried (chopped) onions therein/ with toasted meal (i.e.,
flour)/
[Giano commented: "flour and butter, browned, for thickening the soup.
Rumpoldt is one of the first writers in German to list this
technique."] pour Pea broth or Water there over/and leave one hour or
two to sethe nicely and gently (i.e, simmer) therewith/ spice it up
with Pepper/ Saffron and Ginger/make sour (i.e., add vinegar)/ that
one can eat/ and see it is not over-salted/thus it is good and
well-tasting.
Then in Bohemia it is common to eat these Mushrooms. And one can also
chop them well such as for a Lung pudding/ and one can also prepare
with Eggs and Vinegar/ it is good and well-tasting.
[Giano commented that "this seems to be a soup recipe, but the thick
kind of soup we are used to today."]
Serena's Interpretation
2 oz re-hydrated mushrooms Dried Mushrooms
4 oz Chopped White Onion
Olive Oil
2 oz AP Flour
2 oz Butter
4 C Vegetable Stock
1/2 t Fresh Ground Black Pepper
15 threads Saffron
1 oz fresh Ginger (weighed whole and grated into pot)
1/2 C Mushroom Soaking liquid
1 1 /2 T Apple Cider Vinegar
First, the dried mushrooms; I did this with both Porcini and Black
Trumpet Mushrooms. I started out with 1 oz of each, chopped them
coarsely and placed them into separate reseal able container and
poured 2 C hot water on them and left them out overnight. They started
at 11:00 pm and I removed them from the water about 8:00 pm the next
day. I strained them out, reserving the water and measured them. 1 oz
dried Black Trumpet yielded 3 5/8 oz re-hydrated; 1 oz dried Porcini
yielded 4 1/2 oz re-hydrated.
Put 4 cups of hot water on to heat and make vegetable bullion, let it
come to a bare boil and then turn off and allow to cool on stove.
While stock is heating saute onions with olive oil over medium high
heat until they soften and brown a bit. Set onions aside.
In a heavy bottomed saucepan melt 2 oz of butter until it bubbles
slightly. Sprinkle in flour a bit at a time whisking madly.
Incorporate all flour into butter over medium heat and whisk like mad.
Bring you roux to a nice golden/caramel brown color. Remove from heat
and allow to cool a bit. When both broth and roux are about the same
temp return roux to a low heat and add the stock slowly â“ whisking
well to incorporate.
Add mushrooms, onions and reserved mushroom soaking liquid to the base
and continue to whisk. Bring soup to boil and whisk occasionally,
making sure to scrape the bottom. Allow to boil briskly for a couple
of minutes then reduce to a simmer and cover. Simmer for 1 hour
stirring occasionally.
After about 20 minutes add pepper, saffron and ginger. When you have
about 15 minutes left, add the vinegar.
They tasted differently, I think that the vinegar is a bit much for
the Porcini's and if I go with them I will back off a bit. The pepper
was ore prominent in the Black Trumpet for some reason. The Porcini
is a bit mellower in flavor and both I and my husband prefer the Black
Trumpet.
Any comments or suggestions that anyone has would be most welcome.
Questions I will answer to the best of my ability.
Glad Tidings,
--Serena da Riva
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 00:25:51 -0400
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"
<adamantis.magister at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Rumpoldt Mushroom Recipe - Redaction
To: Barbara Benson <voxeight at gmail.com>, Cooks within the SCA
<sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
As for vinegar, I wonder if perhaps people are sort of shaped in
their expectations by vinaigrette proortions of three-to-one,
pickles, that sort of thing. You might tone it down somewhat, but
also consider either a white wine vinegar or malt
vinegar/alegar/essig, which are a little neutral in flavor compared
to cider vinegar.
Adamantius
Date: Tue, Oct 2004 14:10:57 +0200 (MEST)
From: "Kai D. Kalix" <kdkalix at gmx.de>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Sca-cooks Digest, Vol 17, Issue 14
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
It may be that Peltz here means just Pilz, which is another german word for
mushroom. There is a difference - I just don't remember right now - between
what german mushroomers call Schwa:emme and Pilze. I would suggest
Steinpilze (don't know the eglish word for them, but I'll look it up as I
go for the other info) because they are often sold dried - and soaked overnight.
And Steinpilze are - or were - common in Bohemia.
But again, they're not known now for availability or cheapness.
kai
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 10:28:42 -0700
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Rumpoldt Mushroom Recipe - Redaction
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Thanks for the elucidation on Pelz. When i translated the recipes i
ran them by three other SCAdians who know German better than i do.
One was actually a German :-) That's Giano, who has translated
several cookbooks from Medieval German into English, and he's the
only one who looked over all twenty three. He used to be on this
list, but i think perhaps he isn't at this time.
None of the three had suggestions for the specific mushrooms
mentioned in any of the recipes beyond the very frequently mentioned
morels, so for the most part i left the German names in the recipes,
although in a few cases i made a literal translation of the name.
I'd love to be able to suggest appropriate mushrooms in the recipes,
rather than just leaving the German.
Given the modern popularity of the Chanterelle in Germany - the
pfifferling - i wonder if any of the mystery names is an old word for
chanterelles?
----- Medieval-Renaissance German Mushroom names ----
-- Marx Rumpolt, Ein Neu Kochbuch, 1581
Keiserling - Gwen Cat suggested translating this as Emperor
mushrooms. Giano said "I've found no references in my modern German
cookbooks to 'Kaiserling'. "
OK, i feel silly - i just googled "Kaiserling" and found it on some
German sites. It's Amanita caesarea. Here are some photographs:
http://www.wien.gv.at/ma59/pilze/kaiser.htm
http://www.pilzepilze.de/piga/zeige.htm?name=amanita_caesarea
http://www.micologia.net/todofotos/ampliacion/Amanita%20caesarea.htm
Apparently it can be confused with the highly poisonous Amanita
muscaria (fly agaric)
One web dictionary says: ...widely distributed edible mushroom
resembling the fly agaric. Synonyms: Caesar's agaric, royal agaric. I
also found it called "Caesar's mushroom". I also found some
traditional Mexican and Italian recipes. It also has a multitude of
common names in Spanish - i didn't save the link, since there were no
photos, but if someone wants it, search for "amanita caesarea"
Maurachen - Morels (this is pretty certain)
Peltzschwammen - I translated as Peltz mushrooms. Now i guess i
should change to cepes or porcinis
Redling Schwammen - I translated as Redling mushrooms. What are they?
Weiss bitter Schwam{m}en - I translated as white bitter mushrooms,
but i'm not sure which they are.
Weiss Schwammen - I translated as white mushrooms - are these the
same as "white bitter mushrooms", are they our standard little white
buttons, or are they some other kind of white mushroom?
Stockschwammen - I translated as stock mushrooms. These appear to be
dried mushrooms. I'm imagining something big, flat, and dark like a
type of Chinese mushrooms. Giano said, "I'm wondering whether
'Stockschwamm' refers to a kind of mushroom that grows on trees?" Any
other suggestions?
--- Rheinfra:nkisches Kochbuch, c. 1445
morach - Morel, again
--- Kochbuch aus dem Wiener Dorotheenkloster, Cod. vind. 2897 (15. Jh.)
--- Cookbook from the Viennese DorothyCloister (15th c.)
raysling - I left this as raysling
ro:tling - I translated as Redling. All i can find Googling "rotling"
is a type of Rose' wine.
--- Ein Buch von guter Speise (c. 1350)
morchen - Morels (this is pretty certain). Giano pointed out a recipe
in the 15th century Mondseer Kochbuch (Cod. vind. 4995) where the
German is written "mauroch" which was virtually identical to a recipe
in "guter speise"
--- Kochbuch der Handschrift, UB Basel (looks like i don't have the
date for this one)
morchen - Morels, again
Note: Cod. vind. means "Codex Vindobensis". A codex is a book made of
a series of pages bound in a cover, much like modern books (yes, this
is an over-simplification). Vindobonensis means it is in the Austrian
National Library in Vienna (Osterreichische Nationalbibliothek,
Vienna).
------------------
I posted my translations to this list, they're in the Florilegium,
and on my website (i think my site's version is an update on the
Florilegium version, but i'm not sure), but no one ever responded
before about mushroom types. So if anyone has any more ideas i'd sure
appreciate them...
Anahita
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:34:47 -0400
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"
<adamantius.magister at verizon.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Rumpoldt Mushroom Recipe - Redaction
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Also sprach lilinah at earthlink.net:
> Weiss bitter Schwam{m}en - I translated as white bitter mushrooms,
> but i'm not sure which they are.
I wonder if these might be puffballs, or one of the other white,
mildly toxic mushrooms which get peeled and boiled (the water being
thrown away) before adding them to recipes...
> Weiss Schwammen - I translated as white mushrooms - are these the
> same as "white bitter mushrooms", are they our standard little white
> buttons, or are they some other kind of white mushroom?
I'd suspect they're different. They might be white agarica, your
basic champignon.
Adamantius
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:54:31 -0400
From: "marilyn traber 011221" <phlip at 99main.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Puffballs- was Re: Rumpoldt Mushroom Recipe -
Redaction
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
> Also sprach lilinah at earthlink.net:
>> Weiss bitter Schwam{m}en - I translated as white bitter mushrooms,
>> but i'm not sure which they are.
>
> I wonder if these might be puffballs, or one of the other white,
> mildly toxic mushrooms which get peeled and boiled (the water being
> thrown away) before adding them to recipes...
Unless you're describing a specificly European puffball, since when are they
even mildly toxic? And, when do you peel them? The ones I harvest here in the
US, all you do to them is slice them and use them. Either they're usable
(solid white flesh) or they're not (varying amounts of the interior has
turned to spores- usually the entire inside, but occasionally you catch one
in transition).
Saint Phlip
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 23:55:23 +0200 (MEST)
From: "Kai D. Kalix" <kdkalix at gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Mushrooms-Rumpolt
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
it was written:
> Maurachen - Morels (this is pretty certain)
I concur with that.
> Peltzschwammen - I translated as Peltz mushrooms. Now i guess i
> should change to cepes or porcinis
I - and my lexicon - are at a loss. You're probably right. (if boletus
->
cepes/porcinis)
> Redling Schwammen - I translated as Redling mushrooms. What are they?
hm, there is a kind of champignon here in Bavaria called Egerling, which is
a kind if champignon with a red-brown head (and, to all of my knowledge,
grow only around here). But again, I'll have to refer to my mushroom book,
which hasn't turned up since...
> Weiss bitter Schwam{m}en - I translated as white bitter mushrooms,
> but i'm not sure which they are.
no idea.
> Weiss Schwammen - I translated as white mushrooms - are these the
> same as "white bitter mushrooms", are they our standard little white
> buttons, or are they some other kind of white mushroom?
I think they're what you call 'buttons', although I'm not sure WHAT you call
buttons, since it seems to include some totally different mushrooms...
> Stockschwammen - I translated as stock mushrooms. These appear to be
> dried mushrooms. I'm imagining something big, flat, and dark like a
> type of Chinese mushrooms. Giano said, "I'm wondering whether
> 'Stockschwamm' refers to a kind of mushroom that grows on trees?" Any
> other suggestions?
well, at least there I can be of help: Stockschwammen are 'mushrooms' that
grow on trees. You know, that big, flat thingies ;-)
And there are some edible.
kai
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 11:10:43 -0400
From: "Saint Phlip" <phlip at 99main.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] question about mushrooms
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
They don't really freeze very well, in my experience- the freezing
tends to burst the cells, and you wind up with mushroom slop ;-P They
seem to do better if lightly blanched and frozen. They do OK canned,
but the best method of preserving them that I've seen is dried. That
way, they seem to retain the most texture and flavor, IMO.
On 9/1/06, Alexa <mysticgypsy1008 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Are mushrooms able to be frozen? Can you freeze them raw or must
> they be cooked? If they must be cooked, best way to cook them to
> retain most of the flavor? Best way to freeze them?
> The reason I ask. I have a friend of mine that her neighbor
> brings a lot of the produce home from various places ( I think she
> works for a local grocery chain or something) many, many times
> there are varieties of mushrooms. I was thinking if there is a way
> to freeze these, they would be great to do as like a stuffed
> mushroom cap kind of dish.
>
> Alexa
> Barony of Marinus
--
Saint Phlip
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 17:31:09 -0400
From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] question about mushrooms
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Are mushrooms able to be frozen? Can you freeze them raw or must
> they be cooked? If they must be cooked, best way to cook them to
> retain most of the flavor? Best way to freeze them?
I've had good luck freezing them IF they are cooked in butter or sauce
first.
Also, if you wash them and spread them in a single layer in your
refrigerator they will generally dry out beautifully.
--
-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 17:22:28 -0800
From: Lilinah <lilinah at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Period German menus
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Gwen Cat wrote:
> There are a number of period mushroom recipes in
> Rumpolt - I think Urtatim has some webbed someplace,
> and I have been meaning to go back to my translation
> of the veggies and put them in (I have waited cause he
> specifies mushrooms by name and there are a couple I
> could not find botanical or English names for when
> last I looked several years ago)
Well, i have about 23 German mushroom recipes translated from several
different sources.
http://home.earthlink.net/~lilinah/Food/Misc_Hist_Food/
23GermanMushroomRecipes.html
While English cookbooks just say "mushrooms", the German cookbooks
are very specific about each kind, which is why, when skimming
through them, i didn't spot them.
At that time (early in 2001) Thomas Gloning was still on this list.
He sent me a batch of 15 recipes from Rumpolt, then unsubbed from
this list, then sent me another batch of recipes from several
sources. And he apologized for not having time to translate them for
me! I was just thrilled to get some recipes.
The German is quite different in each batch and i don't really know
German - i audited one semester of German for grad students (so we
could get a general grasp on research). However, i managed to bungle
through. Gwen Cat looked over my first batch of translations for
egregious errors. Then in 2004 i had a fatal hard drive crash and had
to do them all over again. Giano was most gracious in looking over
and commenting on the whole batch.
Gwen and Giano helped figure out what some kinds of mushrooms were.
Then later i did a web search of German sites for mushrooms and
figured out two more kinds. We never did quite figure out, however,
what some of the specific kinds would be called in English. They are
Redling, Rotling (which may be the same mushroom in 2 different
dialects), Raysling, and and Stockschwammen. If anyone can tell from
the recipes, please let me know, so i can update them.
--
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 12:06:06 -0400
From: Gretchen Beck <grm at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Mushrooms in green vine salsa
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
--On Tuesday, May 13, 2008 10:58 AM -0500 jenne at fiedlerfamily.net wrote:
<<<
> 2. Mushrooms in green vine salsa
Ooh. that sounds fascinating. Do you have a recipe handy, or a pointer to
the source?
>>>
Two recipes from Platina:
On Mushrooms and Fungi
...It may be cooked as pleases the greedy to say in some ways, with the
third part which clings to the earth, in its juice, first in water with
white bread, and then with pears or sprouts and twigs. Some put in garlic,
which is thought to counteract the poison. They are fried, after being
boiled and salted, in oil or liquamen, when they are fried, they are
suffused with green sauce which they call salsa, or in garlic sauce.
2 lbs whole mushrooms (white or crimini or combination)
3 cloves garlic, whole, peeled.
salt
olive oil
Bring salted water and garlic to a boil. Boil until mushrooms change color.
Drain. Fry in olive oil. Salt. Add salsa. Serve
A sauce made from vine tendrils, called salsa Take delicate vine tendrils
and grind them up well, add, if you wish, the stalk of tender garlic and a
small amount of bread crumbs. I say nothing of salt, for almost no dish is
made without salt, then moisten all this in vinegar or verjuice and, when
it is moistened, pass it through a strainer into a dish. (I interpreted
vine tendrils as grape leaves, although you probably should use the
tendrils right off the vine)
20 vine leaves (I'm using bottled vine leaves because I don't have a source
for fresh or tendrils. Because the bottled leaves are in brine, I'm leaving
out the salt.).
2-3 clove garlic
2 -3 tbsp red wine vinegar
3/4 slice of bread worth of bread crumbs
Rinse vine leaves in water. Grind in mortar (or food processor). Add
cloves garlic, well mashed, and bread crumbs and grind some more. Add
vinegar until the consistency is as desired, Strain through a sieve or food
mill (I usually foodmill it).
(I refer to this as godawful sauce, because until you strain it, it looks
and smells godawful -- once you strain it, it's marvelous!)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 09:19:11 -0700
From: Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Mushrooms in green vine salsa
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Gretchen Beck wrote:
<<< A sauce made from vine tendrils, called salsa Take delicate vine
tendrils and grind them up well, add, if you wish, the stalk of tender
garlic and a small amount of bread crumbs. I say nothing of salt, for
almost no dish is made without salt, then moisten all this in vinegar
or verjuice and, when it is moistened, pass it through a strainer into
a dish. (I interpreted vine tendrils as grape leaves, although you
probably should use the tendrils right off the vine) >>>
Tendrils are tendrils, not leaves. Tendrils are little branchlets that
grow from the main vine that hold the vine onto the wall or trellis or
tree. Picked young, they are tender and mild and probably make a good
neutral vegetable base for other flavors.
Grape leaves would probably work, but it will be much greener and
fibrous. I do have access to grape vines, my parents' neighbor planted
some 30-plus years ago and they are still running wild in the back
corner of the yard. I'll try this tomorrow or the next day and report back.
Selene
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:17:02 -0400
From: euriol <euriol at ptd.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] recipes w/spice
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
I found this recipe in The Medieval Kitchen, Recipes from France and Italy,
which pulls a lot of recipes from a variety of Medieval sources. This is
recipe is Italian recipe found in Libro della cucina del secolo XIV, which
is a 19th century publication of medieval recipes. The Original and
Translated versions of this recipe are provided below with my
interpretation.
Original Recipe:
Fungi di Monte. Toglie fungi di monte, e lessali: e gittatene via
l?acquaa, mettili poi a friggere con cipolla tritata minuto, o con bianco
di porro, spezie e sale e d? a mangiare.
English Translation:
Mountain Mushrooms. Take mountain mushroom and boil them; and discard the
water; then fry them with finely sliced onion, or with white of leek,
spices, and salt, and serve.
Mustard Sauce
Source: Le M?nagier de Paris
Original Recipe:
?Item, et se vous la voulez faire bonne et ? loisir, mectez le senev?
tremper par une nuyt en bon vinaigre, puis la faictes bien broyer au
moulin, et bien petit ? petit destremper de vinaigre. Et se vous aves des
espices qui soient de remenant de gel?e, de clar?, d?ypocras ou de
saulces, si soient broy?es avec et apr?s la laissier parer.
English Translation:
Item, if you would make good mustard and at leisure, set the mustard seed
to soak for a night in good vinegar, then grind it in a mill and then
moisten it little by little with vinegar; and if you have any spices left
over from jelly, clarry, hippocras or sauces, let them be ground with it
and afterwards prepare it.
Euriol
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 09:06:55 -0800 (PST)
From: wheezul at canby.com
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Mattioli's Mushrooms
In a totally unrelated search, I unearthed a copy of Mattioli's 1611
edition of his work translated from Italian [Kr?uterbuch Von Pietro Andrea
Mattioli, Joachim Camerarius (1534-1598)]. I know there are earlier
German editions, but I haven't been able to find them on-line yet - any
help would be appreciated. I don't know what it is about herbals, but
every time I open one up, I am filled with excitement. Maybe it is
because they have illustrations :)
The link:
http://books.google.de/books?id=zMxDAAAAcAAJ&;dq=inauthor%3A%22Pietro%20Andrea%20Mattioli%22&pg=RA7-PA151-IA2#v=onepage&q&f=false
Now, the question. Mattioli says there are 10 kinds of mushrooms suitable
for the kitchen. I've been trying to identify them, and I thought that
there may have been a similar entry in the earlier Italian edition that
might help with identification. I've also used as a resource this
Germanic mycology document to try to identify the mushrooms, but there
seems to be some overlap in the names.
(http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/fedr.200510078/pdf ) I can
only think that it means that perhaps the words signify specific variants
in the same family, loss in translation to German from Italian, or maybe
the meanings changed throughout time. Can anyone hook me up with an
on-line Italian version, or better yet, tell me about any mushroom
information? And further, any enlightenment on the German mushroom names
is also most welcome. And, of course, it may be that it's something that
can't quite be determined from this resource alone.
Here's what I have so far:
1.Morchen Morels - Morchella
2.Erdmorchen -Truffles (black, white and reddish) - Tuber sp.
3.Herrenpilz Porcini Tuber sp.(also Steinpilz)
4.Reisken Saffron Milk Cap ? Lactarius Deliciosus
5.Pfifferlinge/Pfefferlinge Chanterelle Cantharellus cibarius or Peppery
Milk Cap Lactarius piperatus
6.Heyderling, Treuschling Field Mushroom - Agaricus campestris
7.Rehling or Hendelschwamm - Chanterelle Cantharellus cibarius
8.Br?tlinge Apricot Milk Cap Lactarius volemus
9.Eichswamme and Hasenorlinge- Hen of the woods/Maitake - Grifola frondosa
- and perhaps Pig's Ear/Violet Chanterelle Gyroporus castaneus
10. Rotling or Rothschwamme Saffron Milk Cap Lactarius deliciosus -
Augstschwamm Field Mushroom Agaricus campestris
Katherine
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 14:38:07 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Mattioli's Mushrooms
Try
http://imgbase-scd-ulp.u-strasbg.fr/displayimage.php?album=28&;pos=0&lang=german
I think this is the 1590.
Mattioli, Pietro Andrea: Kreutterbuch. Ausgabe von 1590 in deutscher
Sprache, bearbeitet durch Joachim Camerarius dem J?ngeren
Johnnae
On Feb 8, 2011, at 12:06 PM, wheezul at canby.com wrote:
<<< In a totally unrelated search, I unearthed a copy of Mattioli's 1611 edition of his work translated from Italian [Kr?uterbuch Von Pietro Andrea Mattioli, Joachim Camerarius (1534-1598)]. I know there are earlier German editions, but I haven't been able to find them on-line yet - any help would be appreciated. >>>
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 19:12:54 -0800 (PST)
From: wheezul at canby.com
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Mattioli's Mushrooms
But wait, I found more info!
Johnnae posted those additional herbal links in response to the Gerard Herbal today. Lo and behold there were more German herbals. (insert squee here) Eucharius Roeslin's 1550 Kreuterbuch has a section on mushrooms. He quotes Bock's book (next place I'm looking) and tells me the following about edible mushrooms:
1. Tubera - Morcheln (Truffles) - grow by old fruit trees and in sandy
soils in the woods. They are gray, round and full of holes like a
honeycomb. They should be allowed to swell with water, and then cooked
with herbs/spices and butter. They are only found from April to May.
2. Heyderling "Aminatae vel Boleti" grow in grassy acreage and dried
wheat and start to appear in July through August. They are brown on the
bottom and faded on the top. They need to be peeled and prepared as the
truffles above or roasted over the coals.
3. "Boleti Orbiculati" (no common name given) grow in high open woods.
They are completely white, round, and sometimes grow larger than a plate.
When they are broken they give a hot-flavored milk, hotter to the tongue
that 'pfefferwurz' (which I assume to be a peppery herb).
4. Reheling, grows in the woods and are gold in color. They are soaked,
chopped and cooked with butter, ginger and vinegar. There is another type
that grows in swampy woods by rotted wood and are called in Latin
Digirelli (or Digitelli - the print is smeared). Sometimes they are
yellow, sometimes faded, and sometimes gray. They have a lot of sap and
are unhealthy and indigestible.
5. Br?tlinge- grow in the high woods, and are completely brown. They are
not bigger than the Heyderling and give a sweet whte milk. Sometimes they
are eaten raw.
6. Hasenohrlen or "Lepusculi" grow on the grounds in the woodlands and
appear in August by the plants by oak trees. They are very large
mushrooms, all gray and faded in color, that look like cooked calf's caul.
Their shape helps to identify them. They are cooked like the other
mushrooms.
7. Rodtling/Augstschwemm - grow in Beech woods, and they look like a
Heyderling or Durschling but somewhat more faded.
I feel the itch for a spreadsheet coming on. Tomorrow I will check Bock's
book for any additional information.
Katherine
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 10:47:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Donna Green <donnaegreen at yahoo.com>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Mattioli's Mushrooms
<<< 2 hens mushrooms (not sure which these are);
Urtatim >>>
Might those be "Hen of the Woods" mushrooms?
http://www.celtnet.org.uk/images/hen-of-the-woods.gif
If so, I can get those too :-) I do love Far West Fungi at the Ferry Building http://www.farwestfungi.com/
Juana Isabella
West
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 11:11:46 -0800
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Mattioli's Mushrooms
I found the messages sent me by a German cook
(slightly edited to take messages from HTML to
text and display links). He addresses
redlings
white mushrooms
and
stockschwammen
=====
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 11:26:56 +0200 (CEST)
From: webmaster at kochbuchsammler.de
Subject: The Redling Mushroom on your 23 recipes
Dear Anahita,
It was really fun for me to read that recipes,
being able to read the old german and your modern
english. I maybe have a solution for the
redling-problem: There is a German mushroom
called redhead or redcap (Rotkappe, which is the
not-minimization-word of our german word for
little red riding hood, Rotk?ppchen). It looks
like this
<http://www.google.de/images?q=rotkappe+pilz&;oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:de:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=6x_MS8zrN5iJOInIiKoG&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CDYQsAQwAw>
and wiki says:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leccinum_aurantiacum>;
Hope I could help you.
The cookbook collector
=====
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 11:43:09 +0200 (CEST)
From: webmaster at kochbuchsammler.de
Subject: sorry for bothering, further hints to the mushrooms
The referred white mushrooms (I'm not a city kid
;)) are the so called champignons that look like this
<http://images.google.de/images?q=champignon&;oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:de:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=de&tab=wi>
and wiki describes as such
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agaricus>;
The "Stockschwammen" are called Stockschw?mmchen today and here is the pic
<http://images.google.de/images?um=1&;hl=de&client=firefox-a&tbo=1&rls=org.mozilla%3Ade%3Aofficial&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=stockschw%C3%A4mmchen&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=>
and the information.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuehneromyces_mutabilis>;
I really like your page!
The cookbook collector
=====
End messages
--
Urtatim [that's err-tah-TEEM]
the persona formerly known as Anahita
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 14:04:29 -0800 (PST)
From: wheezul at canby.com
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] herbals
<<< the Titus projekt site of the Konrad of Megenberg book:
http://titus.fkidg1.uni-frankfurt.de/texte/etcs/germ/mhd/konrmeg/konrmt.htm
Regards Katharina >>>
Thanks Katharina,
Squee! Konrad's book has a bit on mushrooms in chapter 38. (Morels,
pfifferlinge and the standard warning against the red mushrooms with white
flecks).
Katherine
<the end>
