spoons-msg - 12/17/01
Period spoons. References.
NOTE: See also the files: utensils-msg, mazers-msg, p-bottles-msg, feastgear-msg, aquamaniles-msg, pottery-msg, p-tableware-msg, Horn-Spoons-art, forks-msg.
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Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: jklessig at slip.net.remove.me (jk)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Spoon making
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 06:54:11 GMT
Caleb <spaceheater at geocities.com> wrote:
>> What sort of spoons are you interested in? Wood, Bone, Horn, metal?
>
>Basicly any type of spoon, but specifily those of a wooden varitey; it does
>not matter the time period, any where from 600-1600 is good. Also I am not
>really looking for methods of spoonal (?) creation, but rather the activity
>as a craft and also styles.
Most of the spoon evidence I have seen, and/or have relates to metal
spoons, with very few horn, bone wood or ivory ones. Large numbers of
them exist in museums, stretching form the roman period up to the late
SCA period and beyond. Despite the long stretch of time covered,
there is a remarkably small variety of style.
Chandra
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 8:42:42 -0500
From: "I. Marc Carlson" <LIB_IMC at centum.utulsa.edu>
Subject: re: Spoon making
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
I foolishly answered this by private mail last night, but in the
interest of boring everyone, and further drawing attention to myself ( :) )
I thought I'd hit the lightlights here, and toss in some other stuff as
well.
<Caleb <spaceheater at geocities.com>>
>Basicly any type of spoon, but specifily those of a wooden varitey; it does
>not matter the time period, any where from 600-1600 is good. Also I am not
>really looking for methods of spoonal (?) creation, but rather the activity
>as a craft and also styles.
Basic styles may be found in: London Museum. "Medieval Catalog" (HMSO, 1967).
It includes bone spoons from (I believe) the 11th -12th Centuries, and
discusses general styles for spoons, showing several metal examples,
from later than that. These styles are similar enough to spoons (wood and
horn) found in Greenland's Western Settlement (with a solid ending date of
about 1350) to offer some food for thought. These can be found in
Aage Rousell. "Sandnes and the neighboring farms" _Medelelser om Gronland_
(88:2) 1936, and other horn one is show in ... Oh crap, my brain just
locked up -- it's in one of Rousell's other Western Settlement issues of
MoG. It also has two examples of a wooden mold for spoons (rather two
separate halves (both bottoms) of wooden molds) that are similar to the
mold shown in P. Hardwick's_Discovering Horn_, suggesting that this
technology for molding horn spoons may have been in use from before 1350
(Hardwick's example, which is more complete, I recall seems to be dated
to the 17-18th centuries).
Marc/Diarmaid O'Duinn
lib_imc at centum.utulsa.edu
From: "Morgan E. Smith" <mesmith at calcna.ab.ca>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Spoon making
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 07:42:28 -0600
Organization: Calgary Community Network Assoc.
When in art school my spouse (now a mundane goldsmith) was taught to make
spoons in metal. WARNING! It is not easy. Spoons in metal are
traditionally made by first creating a hollow metal tube, and then
pounding the tube into a spoon shape. Don't ask me why. But based on the
type of spoons that he and his fellow students made, and the pictures of
period metal spoons I've seen, I think that the method is accurate.
Hollow-tube spoons tend to have lo-o-ong handles and shallow bowls. The
trick, apparently, is to pound out the shape without actually letting the
tubing touch itself interiorally (I know that's not a word, but it gets
the point across) - the class had to make a number of sample spoons in
copper, which were then cutapart at intervals to see if any bits had come
into contact with any other bits.
Later on, they made hollow spoon bowls, and affixed them to cast handles
- these were done in silver and were very handsome. Somewhere in the
clutter that defines our lives, I have a collection of copper spoons that
apparently didn't make the grade enough even to be cut apart, but his mom
got the spiffy silver ones...
Morgan the Unknown
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 8:59:10 -0500
From: "I. Marc Carlson" <LIB_IMC at centum.utulsa.edu>
Subject: re: Spoon making
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
<jklessig at slip.net.remove.me (jk)>
>Most of the spoon evidence I have seen, and/ or have relates to metal
>spoons, with very few horn, bone wood or ivory ones. Large numbers of
>them exist in museums, stretching form the roman period up to the late
>SCA period and beyond. Despite the long stretch of time covered,
>there is a remarkably small variety of style.
The problem is that with both wood and horn, they decompose fairly
readily, and so the few examples I know of in which authentic Medieval
examples have survived are from Western Greenland, where they happened
to survive, when most of the material around them did not.
We should not make the mistake of thinking that simply because something
survived that it is an example of the most common of its type, or even
because many of them survived that they are such examples. Many things
survive because they are either rare, valuable, among the least used of
their kind, or the most durable examples. In the case of archaeology,
the Gods of Luck and Decomposition really make the determination of what
survives.
You are right, though, there does seem to be a fairly limited range of
styles, most centering on a Big round or fig shaped bowl, thin shank,
and a carved ferrule of some kind on the end. The means of attaching the
shank to the bowl change a lot, and seem to become more sturdy as the
spoons become THE principle eating utensil. The fancy Roman/Byzantine
"split-level" sort of attachment (if you've seen one, you may take my
meaning) really doesn't seem to be used much anywhere else during the
"Middle Ages" other than as a luxury item -- n.b. this is my perception
of that, and may be disproven by the simple addition of more evidence :)
Marc/Diarmaid O'Duinn
lib_imc at centum.utulsa.edu
From: powers at woodstock.cis.ohio-state.edu (william thomas powers)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Spoon making
Date: 23 Apr 1998 10:04:18 -0400
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science
>Spoons in metal are
>traditionally made by first creating a hollow metal tube, and then
>pounding the tube into a spoon shape.
Warning, Warning, Danger, Danger, Dr Smith, Dr Smith!
"tradition" is a very slippery concept and very often only goes back
several hundred years. I have *NEVER* seen a medieval example of
a spoon made in the above method. I have seen *many* cast spoons
and fabricated ones in a variety of metals, (pewter, brass, bronze,
silver....) examples of spoon molds are still extant in a variety
of materials. In this case I would be wary of ascribing this tradition
to anything previous to the Renaissance, and perhaps quite a bit later.
>Don't ask me why. But based on the
>type of spoons that he and his fellow students made, and the pictures of
>period metal spoons I've seen, I think that the method is accurate.
>Hollow-tube spoons tend to have lo-o-ong handles and shallow bowls.
Perhaps you are thinking of the "apostle" spoons? The ones I have
seen match your description but have solid handles and there is a mold
for casting them in existance, some metals like brass would not
work well for the method you describe.
Could you share with us the examples you are thinking of?
> The
>trick, apparently, is to pound out the shape without actually letting the
>tubing touch itself interiorally (I know that's not a word, but it gets
>the point across) - the class had to make a number of sample spoons in
>copper, which were then cutapart at intervals to see if any bits had come
>into contact with any other bits.
> Later on, they made hollow spoon bowls, and affixed them to cast handles
>- these were done in silver and were very handsome. Somewhere in the
>clutter that defines our lives, I have a collection of copper spoons that
>apparently didn't make the grade enough even to be cut apart, but his mom
>got the spiffy silver ones...
>Morgan the Unknown
This sounds like a lovely learning exercise on how to work hollow
metal, in blacksmithing we have similiar work done on iron pipe to
draw it down smoothly or to expand it.
I'll ask my friend who spent quite some time in London and now
has hallmarking privilages at the Guild, (WCGSS), if this was
a technique they studied and if so what was the deriviation for it.
wilelm who once had a squarish spoon since the only dishing
shape to hand was the hardy hole.
Subject: Spoon Book from Coventry
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 99 17:45:41 MST
From: rmhowe <magnusm at ncsu.edu>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Well, here goes another citation from Magnus -
(If we all do enough of them maybe we can all get authentic.
I remember when you couldn't find a decent sword.)
I got a book today from a used bookstore in Scotland:
Pewter Spoons and Other Related Material of the 14th - 17th Centuries.
By Sara Muldoon and Roger Brownsword
In the collection of the Herbert Art Gallery and Museum Coventry.
Published Apparently by the City of Coventy Leisure Services
ISBN 0901606286 Paper, no date. Looks very recent though.
Large Format, a bit over 30 pages with good illustrations and
schematics of spoon handle shapes. Shows the major bottom part of
one mold quite clearly. 31 large clear illustrations.
Has a detailed analysis of alloys including latten, and
a short discussion of molding and casting techniques and materials.
Page and a third biblography.
If anyone learns of any other books from this series I'd like
to have them cite them.
Magnus
From: gunnora at my-deja.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Antlers, horns etc...
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 22:55:48 GMT
tigranes at epix.net wrote:
> Judging from the types of animals originally mentioned, I'd guess you
> probably have all antlers. Antler is great for knife handles,
> buttons and such, but I don't think it would be suitable for spoons.
Depends on the antler, and on the spoon. I've found scholarly articles
on both Anglo-Saxon and Viking antler spoons, specifically red deer.
Two articles that I happen to have the citations for handy include:
Bertelson, Reidar. "Decorated spoons of reindeer antler in Norwegian
urban and rural context." Archaeology and the Urban Economy:
Festschrift toAsbjorn E. Herteig. Arkeologiske Skrifter 5. eds. Siri
Myrvold et al. Bergen: Historisk Museum Universitet i Bergen. 1989. pp.
245-254.
Hiruluoto, Anna-Liisa. "A bone spoon from Pirkkala." Iskos 9 (1990)
pp.87-91.
Gunnora Hallakarva, OL
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 13:26:14 EST
From: RuddR at aol.com
Subject: SC - Source for Period Spoons
I found this very nice site:
http://www.pewterreplicas.co.uk/
Steve Millingham Pewter Replicas, which has a splendid line of period spoons,
tableware, and other historic items. Mr. Millingham was friendly, the
service was prompt, and the set of spoons I ordered are beautiful. I
recommend it highly.
Rudd Rayfield
From: Tim McCready <tim_mccready at csnw.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Spoons
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 09:55:32 -0800
Organization: The Computer Store
mariannep wrote:
> Thanks to all that have answered! I am still in the process of checking
> out and contacting people (one of them just says they have cutlery
> sets with spoons but does not describe them).
> If I find a convincing place(s), I will surely post the details here.
>
> >Don't Bill and Charlie make some pewter spoons? The merchants who make all
> >the nifty pigrim badges at Pennsic.
>
> Do you have anyother details on these gentles? I have never been to
> Pennsic and I won't be able to in the foreseeable future.
> Pewter, late period design spoons would be just the thing!
>
> Marianne
There are some period spoons at Museum Replicas Limited
(www.museumreplicas.com)
Look good too.
Tim
Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 10:58:42 MST
From: Charlene Charette <charlene at flash.net>
Subject: ANST - book on spoons (and forks)
To: Ansteorran List <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
Emery, John; European Spoons before 1700; Edinburgh, John Donald
Publishers Ltd, 1976; ISBN 0 85976 012 X
This book also contains references to early forks. LOTS of pictures.
At the time of writing the book, the author had been collecting,
studying, and making spoons for 30 years. He gives many comments from a
maker's perspective (ie, a spoon is claimed to not be serviceable for
eating but the author has been using a replica for quite some time with
no problems).
--Perronnelle
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 14:24:16 -0800
From: Elizabeth Young <lizyoung at fenris.net>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: spoons
These folks have some on their page.
Warning. This page is financially dangerous page to the weak-willed.
http://www.pewterreplicas.co.uk/home.html
'A'isha
SNSpies at aol.com wrote:
> I am looking for early-period spoons, probably in pewter. They need to be
> smallish, have round bowls, and long shafts. Does anyone have a suggestion
> about where I might find such a utensil? Thank you.
>
> Mistress Ingvild
--
'A'isha bint Khalil al-Herati
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 21:17:41 EST
From: <HRAFNASDOT at aol.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: spoons
Iron and pewter spoons can be found in Dixie Gun Works and James Townsend
catalogs.
Asa Hrafnasdottir
Loch Ruadh
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 08:45:54 -0500
From: rmhowe <MMagnusM at bellsouth.net>
To: medieval-leather at egroups.com
Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] Cleaning bones?
Most of the Eastern Deer are too small to do much with their
antlers here. As to bones I've discovered fine, huge, cleaned or
flavored beef bones at the local PetSmart. They even drill a
3/8" hole in one end and must insert a powerwasher cause they're
clean inside as well. About $6 for a huge bone. I've got four
fine ones set back for some winchester spoon / viking spoon
duplicates.
Antler I've cut and carved by hand pretty much as it was.
Have a bit of moose antler I'm gonna try to make a tape loom out of
and maybe a comb or two. Got some buffalo shoulder blades for the
tape loom originally. All it takes is slots with hole between them
in the remaining bone to make a tape loom, then just up and down
backstrap style. Holes are in center of piece. Slots extend nearly
full height. Have to sand the edges carefully because of the
calcareous tissue.
Collis, John: Early Medieval Bone Spoons from Winchester;
Antiq. Journal 59, 1979, pp.375-91.
Someone cited some New Zealand books last year I bought on bone
carving and polishing - Very good techniques but very modern.
Myhre,S.: Bone Carving, A Skillbase of Techniques and Concepts;
1987, Auckland, NZ, 116pp, 8vo, pb, illusts.
new zealand bone carving
Timings,J.: Bone Carving, a New Zealand Guide to Tools,
Techniques and Marketing; 1995, Christchurch, NZ, 64pp.,
Card covers, illus., maori style.
Magnus Malleus, OL, Atlantia, Great Dark Horde.
<the end>