maize-msg – 8/25/10
The discovery of maize (Indian corn) in the Americas and its introduction
to Europe.
NOTE: See also the files: polenta-msg, flour-msg, grains-msg, rice-msg, bread-msg, p-agriculture-msg, puddings-msg, frumenty-msg.
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Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mfy at sli.com (Mike Yoder)
Subject: Re: New World foods in period (Was: Feast Formats)
Organization: Software Leverage, Inc. Arlington, Ma
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1993 23:15:10 GMT
A portrait which food aficionados would find interesting is Arcimboldo's
"Rudolf II as Vertumnus," which is reproduced in _Arcimboldo the Magnificent_.
I do not recall when the painting was done, but Arcimboldo's lifetime fell
entirely within period.
This picture depicts Rudolf as an assembly of vegetables, fruits, etc.; his ear
is unmistakably an ear of maize, which is a striking coincidence. I would like
to know whether 16th C. Italian contained the equivalent of our expression "an
ear of corn."
I am certain this is considerably earlier than the 1597 reference to maize
which David/Cariadoc cited, but it does not indicate more than the bare fact
that maize was considered edible. It might be, for example, that it was used
to make bread rather than being eaten boiled or whatever.
It might be useful to examine the picture closely and enumerate the items found
therein. But I leave this to the cooks among us to decide.
Franz Joder von Joderhuebel (Michael F. Yoder) [mfy at sli.com]
"It looks like gray goop."
"Ah, but it's period gray goop!"
-- ritual exchange over oatmeal between Franz Joder and Thome de Laurent
From: DDF2 at cornell.edu (David Friedman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: New World foods in period (Was: Feast Formats)
Date: 11 Nov 1993 05:30:04 GMT
Organization: Cornell Law School
mfy at sli.com (Mike Yoder) wrote:
> A portrait which food aficionados would find interesting is Arcimboldo's
> "Rudolf II as Vertumnus," ...his ear
> is unmistakably an ear of maize, which is a striking coincidence.
...
> I am certain this is considerably earlier than the 1597 reference to maize
> which David/Cariadoc cited,
> Franz Joder von Joderhuebel (Michael F. Yoder) [mfy at sli.com]
I am sorry if I was unclear. My quote was not intended as evidence on when
Europeans became aware of maize but as evidence of what Europeans, or at
least one prominent writer, thought of the idea of eating it as of the end
of the sixteenth century. There is a reference to growing Maize locally by
a German writer in 1542.
David/Cariadoc
DDF2 at Cornell.Edu
From: FSRAD1%ALASKA.BITNET at MITVMA.MIT.EDU (The Barbarian Wench)
Date: 1 Sep 94 05:19:49 GMT
Organization: Society for Creative Anachronism
Greetings unto the Rialto,
I find it interesting that with all the mention of corn and potatoes,
no-one has explained the mention of corn during medeival times. There was
indeed "corn" in Europe and the British Isles, but not the corn we think
of today. Corn was the term used for whatever grain was the primary crop
in a given place. Threfore, corn in one area, might be barley, while in
another area it might be wheat. When white settlers came to the Americas,
the primary grain was maize, which they, of course, called corn. Maize
and it's descendant, sweet corn are most certainly not period, unless
someone wants to stretch the point and say that the Norsemen who landed
on North America were aquainted with it and therefore it might have been
brought back to the old world. To the best of my knowledge, this never
happened.
I remain your humble servant,
Amber the Restless
From: jtn at cse.uconn.EDU (J. Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Cooking for 50 at Pennsic (was YKYITSCAW)
Date: 26 Apr 1995 23:47:17 -0400
Organization: The Internet
Ive Annor writes:
> Regarding Maize, it's been said that it is eaten by humans in Europe,
> notably England. I'm not sure this was true before 1600, and I'm
> reasonably sure that it is not true outside of England. The maize grown
> in France, for instance, is excellent fodder, but not palatable for
> humans. And I have yet to see a European recipe of any kind, ancient or
> modern, that utilizes it. This is a pity, as it is one of my favorite
> foods.
That was me, sort of. What I actually said, is that maize was eaten in
Europe in period, and in England in 1960. (BTW, my husband, who has spent
an aggregate, spread out, of about two years in England, some as a teenager,
some as an adult, also ate maize in restaurants there.)
Concerning Europe in period: There is a book by Colette Abegg-Mengold
titled _Die Bezeichnungsgeschichte von Mais, Kartoffel und Ananas im
Italienischen: Probleme der Wortadoption und -adaption_. It's a
philological study of the word "mais"/"maiz"/other spellings in Italian,
and it is a gold mine of early references to the stuff. There are
literally twelve pages of quotes from various Italian sources discussing
maize in period (and of course lots and lots and lots more later).
The following is one of the quotations, taken from _Di Gonzalo Fernando
de Oviedo, la historia generale et naturale delle Indie occidentale..._
(1556) ["`" following a letter indicates an accent over it; "'" is
an apostrophe, not an accent]:
E` il vero, che io ho veduto nel mio paese in Madrid
il _Mahiz_, che e` il pane di questi luoghi, assai
buono: et si pose, et nacque in un podere del Commendatore
Hernando Ramires Galindo, presso a` quel devoto Heremo
di nostro signor di Atoccia. Ma in Andalusia in molte
parti s'e` fatto ancho il _Mahiz_.
My Italian is -- well, I have some Latin, a lot of French, I know how
languages change, and I've got a Latin dictionary and grammar. I daresay
someone else can do a better job of translation than I can, but here's
my best:
It is true that I have seen Maize there in my district in
Madrid, and that the bread of these places is quite good:
and it is found and originates in [i.e. it is grown at] a
farm belonging to Commendatore Hernando Ramires Galindo,
near to that devotee of our lord of Attocia, Heremo. But
in Andalusia in many places Maize is also made [i.e. grown].
So there it is. Bread made from maize (the primary form in which the
letters talking about Indians describe eating it, BTW) was made and
eaten in Madrid and Andalusia by 1556, and at least one author thought
it was great.
Which isn't to say that it was universally admired. Here's another
rather delightful quote, from 1591, _Relatione del reame di Congo
et delle circonvicine contrade. Tratta dalli scritti et rationamenti
di Odoardo Lopez Portoghese per Filippo Pigafetta_.
Vi e` miglio bianco nominato Mazza di Congo, cioe` grano
di Congo, et il _Maiz_, che e` il piu` vile de tutti, che
dessi a` porci, et cosi anco il riso e` in poco prezzo,
et al _Maiz_ dicono _Mazza Manuputo_, cioe` grano di
Portogallo.
In my best English rendition:
There is the white millet called Mazza of Congo, namely
grain of the Congo, and maize, which is the most vile
of all, which is eaten by pigs, and thus is even less
costly than rice, and maize is called Mazza Manputo,
namely grain of Portugal.
(Notice, BTW, the implication that rice is dirt cheap.)
The bottom line is that some people ate corn in Europe in period, and
some do today. Others thought it was only fit to be fed to pigs, and
others today agree.
Beware absolutes.
Concerning modern Europe, let me show you a few recipes. I only own one
European cookbook (a Larousse), and sadly, it is in Blacksburg, and I am
not. But the library at school had two, one French, and one Italian.
Here's what I found in the _The Art of French Cooking. Sumptuous recipes
and menus from the heart of the incomparable French cuisine_, translated
by Joseph Faulkner, p. 497 [":" in the middle of a word represents an
umlaut over the preceding vowel; "'" likewise represents an acute accent]:
Mai:s en E'pis
Corn on the cob is an american import now highly esteemed
in France. Cook some milky ears of corn 20 min. in salted
boiling water. Shuck the leaves from the ears and serve
on a napkin with melted butter. Corn on the cob may also
be grilled.
(They're boiling it before they shuck it! Well, to each his own....)
From _Luigi Carnacina's Great Italian Cooking: La Grande Cucina
Internazionale_, p. 219:
Polenta
Polenta is best cooked in a copper pan. Italian cooks
use a "paiolo," which is a kind of cauldron with a rounded
bottom and, unlike most copper pots, it is not lined with
tin. Polenta meal is usually maize flour (comparable to
the American cornmeal) but it may also be made of chest-
nuts. The following is the traditional Italian method of
preparing polenta:
4 cups polenta
2 1/2 teasponns salt
3 quarts boiling water (or more, as needed)
Bring 2 quarts of water to a boil with the salt in a large
copper pot. Bring another quart of water to a boil in a
saucepan; this will be needed as the cooking proceeds. As
soon as the water boils, add 2 1/2 cups of polenta, stir-
ring constantly with a wooden spoon. Traditionally, the
stirring is clockwise only. Reduce the heat. As the
polenta thickens, add a little more boiling water. After
15 minutes, add the remaining polenta and continue
stirring and cooking, adding boiling water when it becomes
too thick. The polenta should cook for about 1 hour; it
will be more digestible and lose any underlying bitterish
taste if the cooking can be extended that long. However,
it is cooked when it comes easily away from the sides of
the pan. The polenta may then be enjoyed soft and very
hot, accompanied by any one of a number of sauces and
garnishes; or it may be allowed to cool and harden, cut
into various shapes, sprinkled with fresh butter and
grated Parmesan cheese, arranged in layers with various
fillings between, and baked, etc. The sliced, hardened
polenta may be substituted for bread, especially when it
is accompanied by a good graby or a dish of braised meat.
The next two pages give a variety of polentas, all based on corn
meal. There is also a recipe for chicken sauted with corn fritters.
As a matter of fact, maize is very widely eaten in northern Italy (mostly
in the form of polenta), Romania, and throughout Eastern Europe. It is,
in general, far less popular in Western Europe, but it is not unheard of.
My primary point, in the posting to which Ive Annor refers, is that one
should beware of absolutes. I repeat it now. Maize is, generally, unpopular
in much of Europe today; but it is _not_ exclusively used for fodder, in
France or anywhere else, and there are places where it is very popular.
(Indeed, according to Stanley Brandes's article on maize in _Ethnology_,
as of 1992, canned corn kernels sprinled on top of lettuce was all the
rage in restaurants in France, under the name "salade exotique".)
A final note. I wasn't born knowing this stuff. I didn't even know
most of it this morning, although I was familiar with the general outline.
I spent two hours at the library this afternoon, and this is the outcome.
My point, is that we have a choice. We can insist on our opinions, or
we can research them. The advantage of the latter procedure is that even
if your opinion was right to begin with, you will probably enrich your
understanding; and if you are wrong, you will find out, and you will not
insist on promulgating error.
One should be as skeptical, in the end, of one's opinions, as of absolutes.
-- Angharad/Terry
From: rlovisol at candelo.dpie.gov.au (Ruth)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Cooking for 50 at Pennsic (was YKYITSCAW)
Date: 4 May 1995 12:23:04 +1000
Organization: Department of Primary Industry and Energy
derek.broughton at onlinesys.com (DEREK BROUGHTON) writes:
> IVANOR at delphi.com wrote:
>IR>By human beings? It's fodder in Europe to this day. And I believe the
>IR>rules pretty specifically state that we cannot consider New World foods in
>IR>preparing period menus.
>1) Yes, Corn is _mostly_ fodder in Europe today. But if you look at the
>fields around here, that's what it's mostly for too. It is eaten
>occasionally in Europe now, I don't know about in period.
>But what on Earth is this about "the rules". What rules? I certainly have
>never encountered an SCA rule that says we can't use new world foods. And
>if we're talking A&S, the rules are simply that you have to document the use
>in period.
>Too many people creating too many "rules"...
I will agree with that one, too many people. If you are interested, I have a period herbal which describes corn, and has pictures of corn, and lists all the uses of corn as an "herbal" cure. It was obviously used for more than just fodder, and although this reference does say that there were not really many
uses for it, it definitely quashes any ideas that they were not used at all!
Kiriel du Papillon
>Coryn llith Rheged | Canton of Wessex Mere
>mka Derek Broughton | Barony of Ramshaven
>derek.broughton at onlinesys.com | Principality of Ealdormere
> | Middle Kingdom
From: djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Corn (was: SCA and Renn. Faires)
Date: 26 Feb 1996 16:30:21 GMT
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
Tom Gibson <masters at nwlink.com> writes:
>The bible story of Joe & his two brothers who sold him for 30 pieces of
>silver uses the term "corn" for grain, and in egypt that mean wheat.....
OK, some basic historical linguistics here.
The English word "corn" is cognate with Latin "granum" (from
which we get "grain") and with lots of other words in other
Indo-European languages. Maybe I better define a term. "Cognate"
means that corresponding words in different languages can be
shown to be related via a regular system of sound-changes, so
that you can reconstruct a hypothetical earlier form, in a
language that no longer exists, from which they all descended.
Now the kicker about corn/granum/etc. is that it doesn't mean any
particular species of grain. It means whatever grain is most
commonly grown in your area. In England, it means wheat. In
parts of Europe, it means spelt (a grain related to wheat but
noticeably different).
Now, wheat is a fussy grain--it won't grow just anywhere, it
likes certain conditions. When the first English settlers came
to the New World, they discovered that the strains of wheat they
had wouldn't grow, or grew badly, in New England. Rye would
still grow--it's a lot more tolerant of bad conditions--and the
local people provided maize, which had been growing in the
neighborhood for millenia.
The English settlers called the maize "Indian corn," on an old
English-language principle of using "{name of other ethnicity} {noun}"
to mean "not a real {noun}," as "Indian summer," "Indian giver,"
"Dutch courage," "French leave." "Welsh rabbit."
But over a few generations, during which maize was their primary
crop, they followed the old Indo-European pattern and started
calling their primary crop just "corn."
Your Bible translation, probably the King James, was done in England
and used "corn" to mean wheat. They didn't *know* that the
primary grain crop in the Middle East was also wheat--in the
fashion of people everywhere and in every time, they assumed that
things elsewhere were just like what they had at home.
Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin Dorothy J. Heydt
(I was a linguistics major, once upon a time)
Mists/Mists/West UC Berkeley
Argent, a cross forme'e sable djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu
PRO DEO ET REGE
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 00:13:48 -0000
From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nanna_R=F6gnvaldard=F3ttir?=" <nannar at isholf.is>
Subject: Re: SC - Indian Grain-found in the Medici Archives
Ras wrote:
>IMO, yes. Many new world foods were introduced to the rest of Europe through
>Italy including tomatoes, possibly capsicums, and a myriad of 'squash' types.
I was just reading this rather interesting passage in The Oxford Companion
to Food:
"The generally accepted view has been that Columbus discovered maize in the
New World in 1492 and brought it back to Spain, whence it was taken with
great rapidity to other parts of Europe, to Africa, and through the Middle
East and India to China. Proponents of this view acknowledge as a difficulty
that the earliest recorded references to maize in Europe give it names such
as "gran turco", but suggest that this was mere confusion, of the same sort
which resulted in an American bird receiving the name "turkey"."
"An alternative school of thought holds that maize must have arrived in Asia,
Africa and Europe before 1492. The early names which it had in these three
continents are cited as evidence that the plant had a Middle Eastern
(Balkan, Turkish, Arabic) centre of distribution in the Old World, and the
already strong argument from nomenclature is fortified by accounts of early
travellers in Africa and elsewhere (all this being set out, with a multitude
of references, by Jeffreys, 1975) and by pointing to the inherent
improbability that a plant which first reached Spain in 1492 could have been
undir cultivation in the E. Indies in 1496 and in China by 1516. (Also,
there seems to be archaeological evidence of its having reached Papua New
Guinea (via Polynesia) 1,000 years ago. Once there, it could have travelled
westwards through SE Asia and S. Asia, and then have been carried by Arabs
to Africa.)"
"The controversy, for those who admit there is one, is alluring, not least
because acceptance of the second hypothesis would imply that other New World
plants could have reached the Old World in pre-Columbian times."
Jeffreys refers to M. D. W. Jeffreys: "Pre-Columbian Maize in the Old
World", in Margaret L. Arnott (ed.): Gastronomy.
Nanna
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 22:42:08 -0600
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Indian Grain-found in the Medici Archives
1. I find the pre-columbian stories on the introduction of New World
foods implausible, because we know that post-columbus they spread
very fast. Maize and potatoes and capsicum peppers were all useful
crops for particular purposes. So you have to explain how they could
sit in Asia or wherever for hundreds of years without spreading to
Europe, and then suddenly spread all over Europe after Columbus.
2. I have seen a different explanation for Indian corn, I think in
Finan, John J., _Maize in the Great Herbals_. Apparently Pliny
describes something he calls Indian corn, presumably because it came
from India. When maize was introduced to Europe, some herbalists,
engaged in the project of matching the plants they new with the
classical descriptions, misidentified it with Indian corn, hence the
name.
David/Cariadoc
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 07:50:48 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Indian Grain-found in the Medici Archives
Nanna Rognvaldardottir wrote:
> I know I was reading a discussion on Pliny´s Indian corn fairly recently, I
> just can´t remember now where it was, or what it was thought to be. Not
> maize, certainly.
Sounds like sorghum to me...
Adamantius
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 15:02:15 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Indian Grain-found in the Medici Archives
<snip of Guinea Fowl info>
> "An alternative schol of thought holds that maize must have arrived in Asia,
> Africa and Europe before 1492. The early names which it had in these three
> continents are cited as evidence that the plant had a Middle Eastern
> (Balkan, Turkish, Arabic) centre of distribution in the Old World, and the
> already strong argument from nomenclature is fortified by accounts of early
> travellers in Africa and elsewhere (all this being set out, with a multitude
> of references, by Jeffreys, 1975) and by pointing to the inherent
> improbability that a plant which first reached Spain in 1492 could have been
> undir cultivation in the E. Indies in 1496 and in China by 1516. (Also,
> there seems to be archaeological evidence of its having reached Papua New
> Guinea (via Polynesia) 1,000 years ago. Once there, it could have travelled
> westwards through SE Asia and S. Asia, and then have been carried by Arabs
> to Africa.)"
>
> "The controversy, for those who admit there is one, is alluring, not least
> because acceptance of the second hypothesis would imply that other New
> World plants could have reached the Old World in pre-Columbian times."
>
> Jeffreys refers to M. D. W. Jeffreys: "Pre-Columbian Maize in the Old
> World", in Margaret L. Arnott (ed.): Gastronomy.
>
> Nanna
There is a type of maize indigenious to China and probably used as food at
one time. It is distantly related to New World maize. IIRC, the botanist
who described the plant was trying to determine the botanical history of
maize in China and came to the conclusion that there is no botanical
evidence for Pre-Columbian New World maize in China.
While corn could have travelled westward and been brought to Africa by the
Arabs, I have yet to see any documentation similar to that for sugar cane or
bananas.
Bear
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 14:58:07 -0000
From: "Nanna Rognvaldardottir" <nanna at idunn.is>
Subject: Re: SC - Corn-Early Modern
Jadwiga wrote:
>Ras-- are you sure about this? _6000 years of bread_ makes the opposite
>claim, at least for southern Europe: that corn (not green corn, but dried
>field corn) got integrated into southern European diet fairly quickly, but
>then dietary problems started to crop up, and it was mostly abandoned
>except for certain applications... I believe maybe polenta was one of
>them.
This is quite true for some parts of Europe, although Ras' statement would
be correct for Northern and Western Europe. Maize was very popular in many
regions of the Balkans, for instance, and in Northern Italy (polenta). I've
seen it called "the bedrock of the Romanian diet" and most Romanian
cookbooks I've seen place great emphasis on mamalinga and other types of
maize porridge/polenta type dishes. The same goes for Northern Bulgaria, for
instance. Maize was also much used in parts of Spain and Portugal. (In
Iceland, however, maize was strictly for the cows and our beloved
sheep.)
Nanna
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 03:52:56 -0000
From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nanna_R=F6gnvaldard=F3ttir?=" <nannar at isholf.is>
Subject: Re: SC - Corn-Early Modern
Huette wrote:
>Okay, Nanna, but _when_ did these countries start
>eating corn, that is the real question. Most, if not
>all, of these countries didn't start eating corn until
>after 1600, true? Not true?
Well, the actual question here was if maize was eaten in Europe before WW II
... However, maize was, for instance, grown and eaten both in Sicily and in
northern Italy in the 16th century. To quote Clifford A. Wright's A
Mediterranean Feast:
"Once maize was introduced from the New World to northern Italy, shortly
after 1500, it replaced panic (foxtail millet), millet, and sorghum in the
Veneto and polenta evolved into what we know it as today. ... Whatever the
story, we do know that maize, popularly called corn, was first known as
maizium (from the Arawak-Carib word mahiz) and sorgo-turco (Turkish sorghum)
or grano-turco (Turkish grain) and that it was being cultivated in Polesina
di Rovigo and Basso Veronese in 1554."
I believe maize cultivation didn't begin in Romania or Hungary until the
17th century (it was introduced by the Turks) but there are accounts of
maize being grown in Crete in 1523, and in France by the mid-16th century. In
Portugal and Spain (especially Andalusia), maize was grown from the early
16th century onwards. The Portuguese were introducing maize to China, the
Philippines, western Africa and lots of other places in the first half of
the 16th century.
The question, of course is did people eat it themselves, or was maize just
used as cattlefeed? In some of these countries, at least, maize was indeed
eaten, probably mostly by poor people
Nanna
Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 02:09:24 +0100
From: TG <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
Subject: Re: SC - Corn-Early Modern
There is a chapter on corn/maize in the herbal of Hieronymus Bock 1539,
later ed. 1570. He says that it is used to make bread ("gibt guot schˆn
wei? m‰l/ vnd s¸? Brot") and mush ("Etlich machen au? dem reinen Weyssen
m‰l Brei/ wie mit andern fr¸chten/ mit Milch abbereit").
The passage is on fol. 223 of the 1570 edition.
Thomas
Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 02:47:24 +0100
From: TG <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
Subject: Re: SC - Corn-Early Modern
There is also a chapter on corn/maize in the herbal of Leonhard Fuchs
1543. He says that it is used to make bread, that it was quite common in
his time and that it was grown in many gardens ("Dise korn seind
erstlich ... au? der Turckey in vnnser land bracht worden. Bekommen
gern/ darumb sie nun fast gemein seind/ vnd in vilen g‰rten gezilt
werden. (...) Man macht aber au? disem korn ¸ber die massen schˆn wei?
meel/ vnd becht darnach brodt darau?/ das macht leichtlich
verstopffung"; Fuchs 1543, chap. CCCXX).
Both Bock and Fuchs have pictures.
Th.
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 10:28:18 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Corn-Early Modern
The 1539 date for Bock (although the quote is from the 1570 edition) and
1543 for Fuchs are very interesting. They both describe the use of maize in
bread, which suggests early adoption of the grain (no more than 46 years if
we accept Fuchs as the base) after being brought to Spain by Columbus in 1493.
Fuch's statement ties maize to Turkey. If that statement is correct and if
maize was introduced to Turkey via the Venetian trade, as has been
suggested, then you are looking at approximately a nine year window for the
grain to arrive in Turkey and become an export to central Europe. The
logical pattern for this trade would be corn from the Genoese colonies in
Spain to Genoa into the trade with Venice and from Venice to Turkey before
the hostilities of 1537 (Corfu) and the formal declaration of war in 1538.
Given the connections between the Augsburg bankers, Spain, Portugal and
Genoa, I think maize may have been brought into the German States via the
spice trade between Augsburg and Portugal. As to why it was thought to be
from Turkey, a visit to a Diffusionist web site turned up the following
(I've edited it slightly).
QUOTE
Newsgroups:
soc.history.medieval,sci.archaeology,alt.archaeology,sci.bio.misc
,sci.anthropology,soc.culture.indian
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal ([22]mcv at pi.net) wrote:
: Grano turco for "maize" fits in with the Catalan names for the cereal,
: "blat de moro" (Moorish wheat), the usual term in Barcelona, Girona
: and Lleida, "moresc" (Moorish [wheat]) in Tarragona,
: "blat de les
: Indies" (wheat from the Indies) in Valencia and the Balears, "blat
: d'India, blat-indi" (wheat from India) in Rossello. Compare "gall
: d'India, gall dindi" for "turkey". And English "turkey" itself.
:
: Before 1492, the term "(blat) moresc" seems to have been used to
: denote a very different kind of cereal, probably buckwheat ("trigo
: morisco" or "trigo sarraceno" in Castillian).
ENDQUOTE
If there was this much linguistic confusion in Spain about the origin of the
grain, then it very likely was transferred to other countries as the grain
spread.
Should you want to take a look at Yuri's Diffusionist arguments about
Pre-Columbian Asiatic maize, try:
http://www.trends.ca/~yuku/tran/tmz.htm
For some connections to the history of maize in Mexico and general
information about the cereal, try the Iowa State Maize Page:
http://www.ag.iastate.edu/departments/agronomy/general.html
Bear
From: "David Mann" <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>
To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 23:57:38 +0800
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] hot sauce
From: Jane Sitton <jane.sitton at radioshack.com>
> How can we get corn tortilla chips into this? I'm sure there were some sort
> of corn (maize) based tortilla type bread, but I've never seen anything to
> indicate it being fried in oil.
>
> Madelina
-------------------
I don't think tortilla *chips* are period. Corn tortillas, yes. Here's the pertinent passage from
"Cronica de la Nueva Espana" (Chronicle of New Spain, 1554) by Francisco Cervantes de Salazar. The full text, in Spanish, is online at:
http://www.cervantesvirtual.com/
Salazar has been discussing the importance of maize in the Indian diet.
Para hacer el pan, que es en tortillas, se cuece con cal y, molido y hecho masa, se pone a cocer en unos comales de barro, como se tuestan las casta nas en Castilla, y de su harina se hacen muchas cosas, como atole, que es como poleadas de Castilla, y en lugar de arroz se hace del manjar blanco, buouelos y otras cosas muchas, no menos que de trigo.
My translation:
"To make bread, which is in flat cakes, they cook it with lime, and being ground up and made into dough, they set it to cook on some earthenware dishes, just as they toast chestnuts in Castile, and from its flour they make many things, such as atole, which is like the poleadas [gruel/porridge] of Castile, and instead of rice, they make from it blancmange, fritters, and many other things, no less [than is made from] wheat."
Note: in European Spanish, "tortilla" is the diminutive of "torta" (cake). The Spanish term for omelette is "tortilla de huevos" (literally little cake of eggs), but even in the 16th century, they were already shortening it to "tortilla". In Latin American Spanish, "tortilla" became synonymous with a flat cake of cornmeal.
In "Historia natural y moral de las Indias" [Natural and Moral History of the Indies, 1590], Jos=E9 de Acosta also mentions the Indians making tortillas from maize, which they cook on the fire and eat while still hot.
Brighid
rcmann4 at earthlink.net
Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 20:48:03 +0200
From: Volker Bach <bachv at paganet.de>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Corn Bread
lilinah at earthlink.net writes:
> Someone on our Kingdom list is arguing that old line: if they had
> ingredient X in period, they must have had cooked dish Y. In this
> case, the discussion is centering around...
>
> Cornbread
Again, the redoubtable Montanari traces the spread
of maize through Europe. Apparently it started out
as a novelty, eaten as a cooked vegetable and used
as a basis for various cooked and baked dishes (he
doesn't mention bread) in the 16th. It became a
staple crop through large parts of the
Mediterranean in the course of the 17th century.
Traditional Mediterranean cuisine from the period
onwards makes free use of maize gruel in various
forms (polenta comes to mind), but not, to my
knowledge, of maize bread. The general period
assumption was that bread equalled wheat, and
should properly be made of nothing else. Mixed
breads were lower-class stuff (even in Germany,
famous today for its rye breads). Of course,
breads in lean times would incliude just about
anything, so corn bread may well have happened,
but I know of no recipe, period source or study
that lists it as a regular dish.
AFAIK corn bread started its life as an American
'second best', something to be made if you
couldn't get wheat. That's not backed up by
anything more scholarly than the Saturday Evening
Post All-American Bicentenary Cookbook, though :-)
Giano
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 12:48:09 -0400
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Corn Bread
From: Elizabeth A Heckert <spynnere at juno.com>
On Thu, 5 Jul 2001 11:07:20 -0700 lilinah at earthlink.net writes:
>Someone on our Kingdom list is arguing that old line: if they had
>ingredient X in period, they must have had cooked dish Y. In this
>case, the discussion is centering around...
>
>Cornbread
I can still remember Terry Nutter, Lady Angharad, arguing this point
back in Black Diamond: her arguement was: you find a turkey, bring it
back to the cook & cook says: "it's a bird! It's a BIG bird! Let's
treat it like a (swan, peacock, other large fowl). You hand the same
cook a potatoe--or more convincingly, an ear of corn, and poor cook says
"Prithee, thou cross-gartered Varlet, what manner of object is this?"
(Add appropriate nose wrinkle as necessary) Maize looks nothing like any
old world vegetable, and without the Native Americans about to show you
how to use it, it's useless. Now my understanding is that Squanto did
not make it to Europe until post 1600.
If the Spaniards brought back South American recipes, where are they?
I think you have to be in contact with a group of people on their turf,
as it were, before you incorporate their food into your life.
Elizabeth
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 21:27:15 +0200
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
From: "Cindy M. Renfrow" <cindy at thousandeggs.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Corn Bread
From Gerard's Herball (1633 edition)
Maize - pages 81-83.
"Frumentum Indicum. Turky Wheat.
...Turky wheat doth nourish far lesse than either wheat, rie, barley, or
otes. The bread which is made thereof is meanly white,
without bran: it is hard and dry as Bisket is, and hath in it no
clamminesse at all; for which cause it is of hard digestion, and
yeeldeth to the body little or no nourishment... a more conuenient food for swine than for men."
Cindy
Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 04:12:56 +0200
From: tgl at mailer.uni-marburg.de
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Corn Bread
> ... her arguement was: you find a turkey, bring it
> back to the cook & cook says: "it's a bird! It's a BIG bird! Let's
> treat it like a (swan, peacock, other large fowl). You hand the same
> cook a potatoe--or more convincingly, an ear of corn, and poor cook says
> "Prithee, thou cross-gartered Varlet, what manner of object is this?"
> (Add appropriate nose wrinkle as necessary) Maize looks nothing like any
> old world vegetable, and without the Native Americans about to show you
> how to use it, it's useless. ...
> If the Spaniards brought back South American recipes, where are they?
This line of argument presupposes that the Spaniards stumbled through
South America and Middle America with their eyes closed and that the
cooks at home were idiots too stupid to ask ...
While there may be no recipes extant for the preparation of cornbread in
Arawak (I don't know), and therefore there may be no recipes translated
from Arawak into Spanish, clearly there ARE early descriptions and
reports extant mentioning maize and its use. Take "De orbe nouo Petri
Martyris ab Angleria Mediolanensis ... 1530" ('About the new world by
Pietro Martire of Anghiera', 1530). There is an index of foreign words
(vocabula barbara), which includes:
"Maizium granum ex quo conficitur panis"
which translates to something like:
'Corn/maize grains from which bread is made'
Now, if I were a Castilian cook and if I were given some corn/maize in
1532 I knew what to try next.
Th.
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:55:14 -0700
From: "Wanda Pease" <wandap at hevanet.com>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] New World Foods in the Old World
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
I came across the mention of "indian grain" in the Medici Archives Food
and Wine section at:
http://www.medici.org/hum/topics/topicreports/FoodandWine_1Page40.html
Is "indian grain" possibly maize? The letter is dated April 30, 1548.
Regina
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:39:40 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Maize
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
From: "Radei Drchevich" <radei at hotmail.com>
> My Hortis Guide "Botanical Distionary of all species cultivated in North
> America" states that "Maize" is of New World Origin, probably peru.
>
> At what time where the Ottoman Turks planting Maize?
Maize was in cultivation in the Ottoman Empire in the 16th Century. There
is a late 16th Century reference (not yet verified by me) where a traveller
describes maize growing in Turkey.
It was encountered during the first voyage of Columbus (the diary of
Columbus's first voyage) and was probably brought back to Spain at that time
(Peter Martyr may provide corroboration). The speculation is that during
the first quarter of the 16th Century it passed through Genoa or Venice to
the Ottomans and into cultivation.
Maize was possibly introduced into Central Europe during the Turkish
incursion into Hungary and the first siege of Vienna.
The reference to Turkisch Korn occurs in Leonard Fuchs's herbal of 1543 (or
1545 or 1546, depending on which citation you use). This suggests that it
was probably in cultivation in Turkey at that time. There is a webbed
version of the illustrations at Yale Medical and the text (facsimile and
difficult to read) is available through a French website (IIRC). Maize was
being cultivated in gardens in some parts of German by the time Fuchs wrote
about it.
Bear
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:32:06 -0400
From: Barbara Benson <voxeight at gmail.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Natural Magick as a Culinary source?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
I have been doing research on the Camera Obscura which led me to
peruse the text "Natural Magick" by Giambattista della Porta. Some
good person is fascinated enough with the text that he has webbed not
only the entirety of the original Latin, but also the entirety of an
English translation from 1658. His website is:
http://homepages.tscnet.com/omard1/jportat5.html
There are many fascinating items in this text, including sections on
household items and cookery. Just for fun I looked through the
sections and did not find anything that resembled actual recipes - but
it was interesting none the less. Now the question is, how on if we
should consider this source. If anyone else would like to take a look
and venture an opinion that would be great.
One of the most significant culinary things that I noticed was on the
following page:
http://homepages.tscnet.com/omard1/jportac4.html#bk4XVIII
In the ancient days they made Bread of diverse kinds of Corn and
Pulse, it would be needless to repeat them, for you may find them in
the books of the Ancients, and there can be no error in making them.
In Campania, very sweet Bread is made of Millet. Also the people of
Sarmatia are chiefly fed with this Bread, and with the raw Meal
tempered with Mares Milk, or Blood drawn out of the veins of their
legs. The Ethiopians know no other Corn then Millet and Barley. Some
parts of France use Panick, but chiefly Aquitane. But Italy about Po,
add Beans to it, without which they make nothing. The people of
Pontus prefer no meat before Panick. Panick Meal now adays is
neglected by us and out of use, for it is dry and of small
nourishment. Of Millet Bread and cakes are made, but they are heavy
and hard of digestion and clammy to eat. Unless they be eaten
presently when they are newly baked, or hot, else they become heavy
and compact together.
****[emphasis by me]
Of the Indian Mais, heavy Bread is made and not pleasant at all, very
dry and earthy next to Millet.
****
Like to this is Bread called Exsergo, that is also void of nutrimental
juice. There was also of old Bread called Ornidos, made of a certain
seed of Ethiopia, so like Sesamum that it is hard to know them
asunder. Also...
Is this a reference to Europeans making a sort of bread out of Maize
in period? Has anyone seen anything like this?
I just thought I would bring it up here - possibly this road has been
traveled before and I missed it. Or it could be complete bunk. I
figured the people here would be the best equipped to figure this out.
Glad Tidings,
Serena da Riva
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:41:54 -0400
From: Barbara Benson <voxeight at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Natural Magick as a Culinary source?
To: gedney1 at iconn.net, Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
On 10/19/05, Jeff Gedney <gedney1 at iconn.net> wrote:
>> Is this a reference to Europeans making a sort of bread out of Maize
>> in period? Has anyone seen anything like this?
>
> In Europe, "Corn" is a "generic" term for Grain.
> (Just as "Pulse" is a "generic" term for peas and beans)
>
> So read this as
> "In the ancient days they made Bread of diverse kinds of grain and
> beans."
Of that I was already aware, but in fact a very good point to make.
But that is not the portion of the quote that I found intriguing,
further down the comment:
"Of the Indian Mais, heavy Bread is made and not pleasant at all, very
dry and earthy next to Millet."
and it struck me that the term Mais was awefully close to the term
Maize, which I believe is the term Europeans use to this day for what
we call Corn.
Glad Tidings,
Serena da Riva
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:28:50 -0400
From: "Jeff Gedney" <gedney1 at iconn.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Natural Magick as a Culinary source?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
The Spanish brought Indian corn to Europe quite early in the
conquest, but it remained rather a curiosity, as I understand it.
Natural Magic was first published in 1550-1560 or so, which is
late enough that he could have had soem experience with maize.
Certainly the Spanish and the Italians of Naples were in great
communication at the time, as Naples was under spanish rule at
that time for close to 100 years.
So it is possible that he got a chance to see some maize.
Capt Elias
Dragonship Haven, East
(Stratford, CT, USA)
Apprentice in the House of Silverwing
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:31:26 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Natural Magick as a Culinary source?
To: <gedney1 at iconn.net>, "Cooks within the SCA"
<sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
As the good Cap'n points out, "corn" is a generic word for grain, but if you
are looking for period European references to using maize, try the herbal of
Hieronymus Bock (1539) where he describes it as being used to make good
bread and mush, Leonard Fuchs Herbal (1543) where he comments that the make
fine white meal to bake bread, and Gonzalo Fernando de Oviedo's General and
natural histoy of the West Indies (1556) commenting on bread being made from
maize in Madrid.
Bear
>> Is this a reference to Europeans making a sort of bread out of Maize
>> in period? Has anyone seen anything like this?
>
> In Europe, "Corn" is a "generic" term for Grain.
> (Just as "Pulse" is a "generic" term for peas and beans)
>
> So read this as
> "In the ancient days they made Bread of diverse kinds of grain and
> beans."
>
> Capt Elias
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 12:45:53 -0500
From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1 at comcast.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Indian Maize in Italy in period??????
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
>>>
This just showed up on the Atlantian e-list, the Merry Rose:
If you've been looking for documentation for the use of American Indian corn
in Europe during the SCA time period, here is a nice little gem.
Nancy / Ingvild
Nancy,
Not "soon after 1500" but Cosimo de Medici, husband of Eleonora of
Toledo mentions his "Indian Maize" crop in an Italian field. Checked out the
Medici Archives Project where I found this:
1548 April 30
Date Uncertain Doc undated
. From: Not Relevant in this Entry
Location: Not Relevant in this Entry .
To: Not Relevant in this Entry
Location: Not Relevant in this Entry
Synopsis: Unsigned and undated note, probably in the hand of
Lorenzo Pagni, between two dated drafts of letters from
Duke Cosimo, ordering Pierfrancesco Riccio to have
"Indian" grain planted in the field below the Vivaio in the
garden at the Villa at Castello.
Extract: [...] Scrivere al Maiordomo [Pierfrancesco Riccio] che
faccia sementare il campo ch'? sotto il vivaio a Castello
de' grani d'India
Wanda
<<<
Comments??? Could they be using the term "maize" or "Indian Maize" the
same way other writers used the term, "corn"...i.e., just another
reference to a kind of flour, but not to what we know as corn?
Kiri
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 10:30:30 -0800
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Indian Maize in Italy in period??????
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Kiri wrote:
> Comments??? Could they be using the term "maize" or "Indian Maize"
> the same way other writers used the term, "corn"...i.e., just another
> reference to a kind of flour, but not to what we know as corn?
It's quite likely this is Indian corn/maize. But it just indicates
that he ordered the planting of an exotic and foreign plant in *the
garden*. It doesn't in anyway show that he actually *ate* it.
--
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 18:17:40 -0800
From: "Wanda Pease" <wandap at hevanet.com>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Indian Maize in Italy in period??????
To: <grizly at mindspring.com>, "Cooks within the SCA"
<sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
I took this excerpt from the Medici Archives Project at:
http://www.medici.org/ Go through the food and wine segment. The original
Italian is on the same page I think. Please note that I don't make any
suggestions for this piece. The people who are doing the translations are
professionals, not second year high school students.
I suspect that if Cosimo de Medici told someone to plant a "field" with
something he expected results better than simply poking a seed in the
ground. No reason I know for Corn/maize not to grow in Italy in the
16th Century. No terrible climate reasons at any rate.
No claims that people ate the stuff. However, don't we know that it was
around by about 1620 due to the Arcimbolo picture?
Regina
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 09:45:55 -0800
From: Ruth Frey <ruthf at uidaho.edu>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Indian Maize in Italy in period??????
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
> Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 02:47:24 +0100
> From: TG <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
> Subject: Re: SC - Corn-Early Modern
>
> There is also a chapter on corn/maize in the herbal of Leonhard Fuchs
> 1543. He says that it is used to make bread, that it was quite
> common in
> his time and that it was grown in many gardens ("Dise korn seind
> erstlich ... au? der Turckey in vnnser land bracht worden. Bekommen
> gern/ darumb sie nun fast gemein seind/ vnd in vilen g?rten gezilt
> werden. (...) Man macht aber au? disem korn ¸ber die massen sch?n
wei?
> meel/ vnd becht darnach brodt darau?/ das macht leichtlich
> verstopffung"; Fuchs 1543, chap. CCCXX).
>
> Both Bock and Fuchs have pictures.
>
> Th.
That's interesting -- I have a copy of Fuchs but have never got
round to looking up his entry on maize. I see he says maize is from
Turkey ("This grain was first brought to our land from Turkey," loose
translation of an above sentence). Gerard's English _Herbal_ mentions
maize, too, along with a harangue about how the stuff *isn't* from
Turkey, it's from the New World ("Virginia" is the place name used, I
think), and that the popular idea of a Turkish origin is wrong, wrong,
wrong. The same entry also says maize *is* edible, but with the
caveat that it's not very nutritous and is only fit for animals, and
unfortunate Native Americans who can't get anything better. I have
the Johnson edition of the _Herbal_ (Johnson re-edited the whole thing
in 1633 or thereabouts, adding to and commenting on Gerard's original
version), but I believe all the above info came from Gerard, which
would put it in 1597.
-- Ruth
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 10:54:18 -0800
From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Indian Maize in Italy in period??????
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
I'm not sure if the question has come up yet in
the discussion, but there's an interesting
account of why maize was called "Indian Corn," I
think in Finan, John J., Maize in the Great
Herbals.
Apparently a classical source, I believe Pliny,
mentions a grain he calls "Indian corn"--from
India. Some sources misidentified maize with it
when it first became available in Europe. If
that's right, the name has nothing to do with
"American Indians."
Here's the discussion of maize from the Miscellany, some of which is
relevant:
---
"Corn," in British usage, refers to grains in
general--most commonly wheat. The earliest
reference in the OED to maize, the British name
for the grain that Americans call corn, is from
1555. All of the pre-1600 references are to maize
as a plant grown in the New World. Knowledge of
maize seems to have spread rapidly; a picture of
the plant appears in a Chinese book on botany
from 1562. Pictures appear in European herbals
from 1539 on. Finan concludes that they represent
at least two distinct types of maize, one similar
to Northern Flints, the other similar to some
modern Caribbean varieties. Grains are variously
described as red, black, brown, blue, white,
yellow and purple.
How soon did maize become something more than a
curiosity? Leonhard Fuchs, writing in Germany in
1542, described it as "now growing in all
gardens" [De historia stirpium-cited in Finan].
That suggests that in at least one European
country it was common enough before 1600 so that
it could have been served at a feast-although I
know of no evidence that it in fact was, and no
period recipes for it. On the other hand, John
Gerard wrote, in 1597: "We have as yet no
certaine proofe or experience concerning the
vertues of this kinde of Corne, although the
barbarous Indians which know no better are
constrained to make a vertue of necessitie, and
think it a good food: whereas we may easily judge
that it nourisheth but little, and is of a hard
and euill digestion, a more convenient food for
swine than for man" (Crosby). Gerard's conclusion
is still widely accepted in Europe. In West
Africa, however, maize was under cultivation "at
least as early as the second half of the
sixteenth century..." and in China in the
sixteenth century (Crosby). There is also a
reference to its being grown in the Middle East
in the 1570's (Crosby).
Before leaving the subject of maize, I should
mention that there have been occasional attempts
to argue that it either had an Old World origin
or spread to the Old World prior to Columbus.
Mangelsdorf discusses the arguments at some
length and concludes that they are mistaken.
--
David Friedman
www.daviddfriedman.com
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 17:51:21 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Indian Maize in Italy in period??????
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Gerard is late to the party. Maize is first mentioned in Columbus's journal
of rhe first voyage as a type of millet and the grain was in use in Europe
50 years before he wrote his herbal.
The tie to Turkey is probably because the Turks were early adopters of New
World foodstuffs, receiving them through the trade with Genoa and Venice.
The Turks then brought such foods into Central Europe beginning with the
incursion of 1529. Interestingly, the term Indian causes geographical
problems. Columbus uses the word in relation to the West Indies, but the
term was more generally understood to be India. Fuchs erroneously
identifies some capsicum peppers from the New World as being Indische
Pfeffer and Calcuttische Pfeffer (IIRC).
Bear
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 10:32:15 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Indian Maize in Italy in period??????
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Grise may not have a period recipe for Maize but there's one
in Scappi. See Chap. 70v 359 of the Forni facsimile.
That would date it in print to 1570.
The early adoption of maize and its use in polenta in the 16th century
is ably discussed
in Capatti and Montanari's volume Italian Cuisine A Cultural History.
It's published by Columbia University Press.
Johnnae llyn Lewis
David Friedman wrote:
>>>
> Do you have any period recipes for it? David/Cariadoc
Thank you, all.... As far as I'm concerned, I can have 'indian maize' AKA
'corn' in present day american parlance as a part of my feast for
Academy of Defence, and defend it. Yes! The menu just got a bit
easier... not to mention more colorful.
in service (and giggling)
Grise
<<<
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 14:44:34 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Indian Maise in Italy in period?????
To: alysk at ix.netcom.com, Cooks within the SCA
<sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Elise Fleming wrote:
> Johnna wrote:
>> Grise may not have a period recipe for Maize but there's one
>> in Scappi. See Chap. 70v 359 of the Forni facsimile.
>> That would date it in print to 1570.
>
> Awww! Resource tease!! Some folk don't have that. Is it online
> or short enough to excerpt?
>
> Alys Katharine
I was hoping Helewyse/Louise would respond and I wouldn't have
to number one: dig the copy of Scappi out from where it is lurking
in the Italian pile of Forni stuff and two: type it out. I am about
typed out.
Of course if one searches online one finds:
XXIV Maize dish (Frumenty) good and very useful.
If you want to make frumenty, take the wheat berries, and grind/beat it
well until the husk lifts, then wash it well. Put it to boil in water,
but don’t boil it too much, then pour away the water. Then add inside
the fat of whichever animal you wish, and you want to make sure that you
don’t add too much. Add sweet and strong spices, and saffron, and if you
don’t have wheat then you can take rice, and it will be good.
This is from Helewyse's Translation of Libro di cucina/ Libro per cuoco
(14th/15th c.) (Anonimo Veneziano).
The use of "maize" here must be generic, rather like corn being used
for wheat in British texts. The date means that it's can't be New World
corn or maize yet.
http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/libro.html#XXIV
Johnnae
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 10:34:46 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Indian Maise in Italy in period?????
To: Louise Smithson <smithson at meduohio.edu>, "sca >> Cooks within the
SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
In Capatti and Montanari's volume Italian Cuisine A Cultural History,
they write on page 50:
"A soup of "coarse wheat," meaning maize, appears in Scappi's Opera.
footnote 76 which reads Scappi Opera ,chaps. 70v 359
So they at least believe that this coarse wheat is maize. They also say
that Stefani and Latini
mention it as suitable for animal fodder. This is the sort of thing the
English cooks write about when they discuss oats.
Johnnae
Louise Smithson wrote:
> OK to confound the issue further. When you look at Florio you get a
> totally different interpretation of the word Formentone:
> Forment*ro – a meale or wheate man
> Forment*to – a frumentie pottage or tarte, also household, wheaten
> or cheat bread
> Form*nto – any kind of corne but properly wheate. Used also for leaven
> Forment*ne – the biggest kind of wheate. Also Formentie
>
> So are we talking here about true maize/corn or are we talking
> about a very regional form of wheat which has a larger grain than
> standard?
>
> I'll transcribe and translate the formentone recipes tonight when I
> get back from work. But there is in my mind some question about
> whether these are truly maize recipes or not.
>
> Helewyse
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 19:17:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Louise Smithson <helewyse at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Indian maize recipes from scappi (long)
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
OK in Scappi there are three recipes which utilize Formentone as a
grain. This is the coarse wheat which was identified as maize in
Capatti and Montanari's volume Italian Cuisine A Cultural History.
As I indicated earlier the modern translation of formentone is maize,
however the 1611 version of Florio's Italian English dictionary calls
it merely the biggest form of wheat, while formento is the generic
Italian for grain. It appears from these recipes that what is being
used is a dry whole grain, not flour (this is based on usage
instructions i.e. soak then cook a long time). I will try and hunt
through some of the agricultural texts and see if a more precise
description of formentone can be found which should allow a
definitive definition of formentone as either maize or not maize.
Helewyse
Formentone - is translated throughout the recipes as coarse wheat.
Anything in parenthesis is an alternate translation or a
suggestion as to the implied meaning of a word
To make a thick soup of coarse wheat and peeled (scotch) barley.
Cap 185, 2nd book, folio 70 Scappi.
The coarse wheat is a grain much larger than that which is used to
make bread, and in Lombardy one finds it in quantity. The which is
used for tarts and Fiadone (flat cakes) as is described in the book
on pastries in their respective chapters. Select it therefore and
wash the dust of it, and put it to soak in tepid water for ten hours,
changing the water several times. Put it to cook with cold fat meat
broth in a tin lined copper or ceramic vessel. Add yellow Milanese
sausage, or sausage (salami) or a piece of salted pork mendrolla (?
belly? hock?) to give it taste. Afterward add cinnamon and saffron
and put it to cook on the pot stand a distance from the flame and
cover (seal) the vessel. Don't let it cook for less than two and a
half hours. Serve with cheese and cinnamon on top. This soup should
be very thick. In the same way one can cook peeled (scotch) barley,
the which should boil more than the coarse wheat because the one and
the other need large (long) cookin!
g, and
one can enrich both with cheese, eggs, pepper, cinnamon and saffron.
To make a pastry of various grains with four corners, the which is
commonly called Fiadoni (flat cake). Chap 47, folio 349, fifth book
Scappi.
Put to cook the coarse wheat with fat meat broth, and when it is
cooked take Parmigiana cheese and fresh (soft) cheese, enough
saffron, four ounces of raisins, an ounce of cinnamon, half an ounce
of pepper, three ounces of soaked pine nuts. When the grains are
cooled one mixes everything together. Then take a sheet of pasta.
Made of fine flour, egg yolks, rosewater, salt and tepid water mixed
together so that it is firm like coarse pastry. for each pound of
pastry take eight ounces of butter and little by little put it into
the pastry, mixing continuously, until one has used all the butter.
And once this pastry has become soft and smooth one makes of it a
round sheet of the thickness of a knife blade. This sheet one can
make large or small however one wants. Put in the middle of this
sheet the stuffing and close it up and make four corners in the
fashion of an oil lamp. Give it color all around and on top with
beaten eggs and saffron. Put it into an oven with some heat above,
because the pastry will become firm sooner. And put it to cook, and
one doesn't want it to take too much color, one puts on top a sheet
of cartridge paper. When it is cooked serve hot. One can also serve
it cold and reheat it in the oven or on the grill. If you want to
make Fiadone (flat cakes) in a day when one cannot eat meat, cook the
coarse wheat in cows milk or goats milk with butter. In the same way
one can make Fiadone (flat cakes) with peeled (scotch) barley, rice,
spelt and also millet and fox-tail millet. One can make it with only
Parmigiana, delicate fat cheese, sugar, spices and dried raisins.
To make a tart of coarse wheat Chap 88, folio 359, fifth book,
Scappi.
The coarse wheat is a rather large grain, larger than wheat. In
Lombardy they use it enough in dishes. Take it, clean it and put it
to soak in tepid water for four hours and wash it in more tepid
water. Put it to cook in good meat broth as one cooks both rice and
spelt. And make the tart with the same ingredients and method as the
chapter above.
To make a tart of rice cooked in meat broth Chap 87, folio 359,
5th book Scappi.
Cook a pound of well peeled rice in fat meat broth, and when it is
cooked in the way that it is still firm empty it and let it drain.
Grind it in the mortar with a pound and a half of fresh provatura
(mozzarella) and a pound and a half of good Parmigiana cheese, and
half a pound of fat cheese, three quarters of an ounce of pepper, an
ounce of cinnamon, a pound and a half of sugar, four ounces of butter
to keep it moist and six fresh eggs. With this stuffing make a tart
with a sheet of pastry both underneath and on top with decorations
all around. In this way one can make it with spelt. If you want it
to stay white cook the rice in goats milk and pass it through a fine
strainer if you want. In place of provatura (mozzarella) add ricotta,
in place of spices add ground ginger, egg whites without the yolk and
more sugar and a little grated Parmigiana cheese.
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 09:35:31 -0800
From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Turkeys ARE Period!
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> There was quite a bit of confusion as to where things came from. Fuchs
> (1541) refers to chili peppers as Indische and Calcuttisha Pfeffer and maize
> as Turkishe Korn (if I got the spellings correct). That beats out
> Gerard by half a century.
If I remember correctly, Finan, John J., Maize in the Great Herbals,
suggests that maize was referred to as "Indian corn" not out of a
confusion between the New World and Asia but because Pliny described
something that sounded similar called "Indian corn" and maize was by
some misidentified with that.
--
David/Cariadoc
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 18:32:12 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Ottoman Foodstuffs was Plantains: Period for
Old World?
<<< My comments are based on what i've read in books and essays by modern
Turkish and European scholars and writers on food, cuisine, and dining
culture (including an essay on McDonald's vs. traditional "fast" food).
I guess it depended on when the plant arrived. I know chilis and squashes
entered pretty early. When was maize adopted? Since what i've read tends
to focus on courtly and on urban food, there's little mention of maize It
doesn't feature much in urban food of the "better" classes.
<clipped>> --
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM) >>>
Leonard Fuchs refers to maize as Turkische Ko:rn in his herbal around 1543,
but the best evidence is from Leonard Rauwolf who traveled between Tripoli
and Baghdad in 1573-75. Along the Euphrates, Rauwolf observed, "Indian
millet (maize) six, seven or eight cubits high."
Bear
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 11:32:19 +0100
From: Daniel Schneider <macbrighid at campus.ie>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Maize and Cubits
<<< Something doesn't seem right here. Looking up the length of a "cubit" on the web I get varying measurements, but they range from "about 17
to 22 inches (43 to 56 centimeters)". Even assuming a conservative
number of 17 inches that makes the shortest "Indian millet (maize) 102
inches or 8.5 feet tall and the taller up to 136 inches or 11.3 feet
tall.
I know we've been breeding maize to be shorter and thus easier to
harvest, but these numbers seem awfully tall.
Stefan >>>
That doesn't seem too unlikely to me- I know that the 19th c field corn we
grew at Sturbridge Village reached 10+ feet fairly commonly- I realize
that's 400 years later, but considering the usefulness of the stalks as
animal fodder and bedding, I would suspect that big was seen as good back in
period as well...
Dan
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 14:00:42 +0000
From: t.d.decker at att.net
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] maize and cubits
<<< Something doesn't seem right here. Looking up the length of a "cubit"
on the web I get varying measurements, but they range from "about 17
to 22 inches (43 to 56 centimeters)". Even assuming a conservative
number of 17 inches that makes the shortest "Indian millet (maize) 102
inches or 8.5 feet tall and the taller up to 136 inches or 11.3 feet
tall.
I know we've been breeding maize to be shorter and thus easier to
harvest, but these numbers seem awfully tall.
Stefan >>>
The cubit is the distance from the elbow to the tip of the middle finger. Maybe Rauwulf had short forearms.
What I suspect is that Rauwulf estimated the height rather than actually measured. Most people tend to overestimate lengths, heights, etc.
Bear
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 14:26:04 +0000
From: t.d.decker at att.net
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] maize and cubits
<< Back on September 1, Bear said:
<<< Leonard Fuchs refers to maize as Turkische Ko:rn in his herbal
around 1543,
but the best evidence is from Leonard Rauwolf who traveled between Tripoli
and Baghdad in 1573-75. Along the Euphrates, Rauwolf observed, "Indian
millet (maize) six, seven or eight cubits high."
Bear >>>
Something doesn't seem right here. Looking up the length of a
"cubit" on the web I get varying measurements, but they range from
"about 17 to 22 inches (43 to 56 centimeters)". Even assuming a
conservative number of 17 inches that makes the shortest "Indian
millet (maize) 102 inches or 8.5 feet tall and the taller up to 136
inches or 11.3 feet tall.
I know we've been breeding maize to be shorter and thus easier to
harvest, but these numbers seem awfully tall.
Stefan >>
<< Why assume they were looking at maize and not millet? A number of
varieties of millet were used in India since ancient times. I'm not
familiar with growing millet, but I found a reference that says it
can be up to 4 meters tall. On the other hand, someone seeing maize
for the first time might easily think it looked like millet.
Ranvaig >>
Columbus first records maize as a type of millet, but he was apparently also aware of the differences. Europeans were quite aware of millet having grown panic, foxtail, pearl and probably other varieties for food.
Rauwulf was a trained physician and botantis from Augsburg and would have been able to differentiate the various types of millet and other grains including Indian corn. While the above quote comes from Rauwolf's travel book, his Vieretes Kreutterbuech might prove more enlightening about the actual plant. (I haven't chased down the text yet.)
As to the height differences, there are varieties of maize that grow to 7 meters, while our modern commercial varieties average about 2.5 meters. Height may also be determined by other variables, including soil, water, and planting density (closely planted maize grows taller).
Bear
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 13:48:31 -0800 (PST)
From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Leonhart Rauwolf 1582
The travelogue of Leonhart Rauwolf, published first in 1582, is online here:
http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0002/bsb00026040/images/
Some notes on plants and food on page 71 ss. I didn't find maize there however. It may be mentioned in other places I did not read so far.
In 1583, there was a second edition, which, as far as I can see at the BSB website, will be be available there soon:
http://www.mdz-nbn-resolving.de/urn/resolver.pl?urn=urn:nbn:de:bvb:12-bsb10180665-9
This edition includes a fourth chapter ("Der Vierte Thail") with the depictions of plants, no maize however.
I guess the passage on maize quoted by Bear and on the internet
http://www.nal.usda.gov/research/maize/chapter4.shtml
is to be found somewhere within the travelogue. The website I just mentioned refers to these books:
Karl H. Dannenfeldt (1968) Leonhard Rauwolf, Sixteenth Century
Physician, Botanist, and Traveler. Harvard University Press, Cambridge,
Massachusetts, USA, pg 230
Alfred Crosby (1972) The Columbian Exchange, Biological Consequences of 1492. Greenwood, Westport, Connecticut, USA
Emilio
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 14:20:08 -0800 (PST)
From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Maize 1565 and food of 16th century sailors
"Near about this place inhabited certain Indians, who the next day after
we came thither came down to us, presenting mill and cakes of bread,
which they had made of a kind of corn called maize, in bigness of a pease,
the ear whereof is much like to a teasel, but a span in lenght, having thereon
a number of grains". (1565; The Voyage made by Master John Hawkins ... begun in .. 1564)
(Voyages of the Elizabethan Seamen. Select Narratives from the 'Principal Navigations' of Hakluyt. Edited by Edward John Payne ... Oxford 1907, p. 29)
There are several passages on the food and the "provision" of the sailors.
What do we know about: "The food of 16th century sailors"?
Any suggestions?
E.
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 20:18:24 -0800
From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] maize and cubits
<<< Columbus first records maize as a type of millet, but he was
apparently also aware of the differences. Europeans were quite
aware of millet having grown panic, foxtail, pearl and probably
other varieties for food.
Rauwulf was a trained physician and botantis from Augsburg and would
have been able to differentiate the various types of millet and
other grains including Indian corn. While the above quote comes
from Rauwolf's travel book, his Vieretes Kreutterbuech might prove
more enlightening about the actual plant. (I haven't chased down
the text yet.) >>>
My memory is that _Maize in the Great Herbals_, by Finan, says that
Maize was called Indian corn not because of the Amerind connection
but because it was misidentified with an Indian corn described by
Pliny. I have no idea if that was a variety of millet or not.
--
David/Cariadoc
www.daviddfriedman.com
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 15:17:52 +0000
From: t.d.decker at att.net
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] maize and cubits
<<< My memory is that _Maize in the Great Herbals_, by Finan, says that
Maize was called Indian corn not because of the Amerind connection
but because it was misidentified with an Indian corn described by
Pliny. I have no idea if that was a variety of millet or not.
--
David/Cariadoc >>>
A lot of the problem is Columbus identifying the Caribbean islands with the islands off Asia and the question of how soon people were differentiating between the New and Old Worlds.
I have encountered Pliny's quote and that his Indian Corn is usually identified as a type of millet, but it and some Indian (sub-continent) carvings and paintings are used by Diffusionists to "prove" that maize arrived in the Old World before Columbus. I think it was probably a type of millet. While I haven't found any contemporary linkage between Pliny and New World corn, I'm quite willing to take Finan's comment at face value until disproven.
Just to add to the fun, there was apparently a botanical report that a plant native to China was a form of maize. Outside of hearing about this report, I haven't located much on the subject.
Bear
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 10:41:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] maize and cubits
<<< Just to add to the fun, there was apparently a botanical
report that a plant native to China was a form of
maize.? Outside of hearing about this report, I haven't
located much on the subject.
Bear >>>
In the bibliography section of the Oxford Companion to Food, there is this listing, which I think needs to be found and read:
Jeffreys, M.D.W. (1975) 'Pre-Columbian Maize in the Old World', in Margaret L. Arnott (ed.) "Gastronomy", The Hague: Mouton.
In the article on maize in the Oxford Companion to Food, it specifically cites this article but also calls it controversial.
Huette
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 20:41:06 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] maize and cubits
Jefferys is one of the prime movers in the Diffusionist camp. I've gone
over his evidence for Pre-Columbian maize in the Old World and while he
makes an interesting case, the evidence is primarily derived from his
interpretation of Indian art. He ducks questions of alternative
interpretation and artistic style. It is an argument worth considering, but
noit very convincing. The paper is meant to support Diffusionist theory and
is a little iffy, so it is controversial academically.
Bear
----- Original Message -----
In the bibliography section of the Oxford Companion to Food, there is this
listing, which I think needs to be found and read:
Jeffreys, M.D.W. (1975) 'Pre-Columbian Maize in the Old World', in Margaret
L. Arnott (ed.) "Gastronomy", The Hague: Mouton.
In the article on maize in the Oxford Companion to Food, it specifically
cites this article but also calls it controversial.
Huette
<the end>