cookbooks-msg - 12/21/01
Reviews of cookbooks with medieval recipes. Messages posted before
September 1995.
NOTE: See also the files: cookbooks2-msg, cooking-bib, cookbooks-bib,
cookbooks2-bib, cookbooks-SCA-msg, cb-rv-Apicius-msg, cb-novices-msg.
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This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
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Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: perkins at msupa.pa.msu.EDU ("corpusculorum velocium perexiguorum
Date: 12 Jun 91 16:05:15 GMT
> My copy of "The Medieval Machine" by Gimpel also mentions butter as being only
> fit for the lower classes. It was, according to him, a substitute for refined
> lard...the difference being that to get lard to refine, you *killed* the beast
> whereas the poor, who couldn't afford to slaughter so much, used butter (a
> "renewable resource") more often. [...]
>
> (I appologize for not giving an exact quotation from "Machine". I seem to have
> lent it out again...)
Since, from her post, NicMaoilan doesn't have her copy nearby (and I do),
here is the information:
Jean Gimpel, _The_Medieval_Machine:_The_Industrial_Revolution_of_the_
Middle_Ages_, 1976. First published in French under the title _La_Revo-
lution_Industrielle_du_Moyen_Age_. USA Publication: Holt, Rinehart and
Winston, New York 1976 and (the paperback copy I have) Penguin Books 1977,
which has ISBN 0 14 00.4514 7 ; Lib of Cong Card Cat Num HC41.G5 1977 ; and
is categorized under the Dewey Decimal System as 330.902.
I have been looking through it and find no mention of butter vs refined
lard in the manner of NicMaoilan's comment above; I've read through the
sections on agriculture, food & diet and skimmed the rest of the book,
to no avail... Perhaps she is remembering a quotation from another book;
or perhaps (though I doubt it) Gimpel makes this particular point in some
other section of the book (Mining, Engineering, Environment & Pollution,
Labor Conditions, Clocks, Experimental Science, etc.).
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeremy de Merstone George J Perkins perkins at msupa.pa.msu.edu
North Woods, MidRealm East Lansing, MI perkins at msupa (Bitnet)
-------------------------------------------------------------
From: greg at silver.lcs.mit.edu (Hossein Ali Qomi (mka Gregory F. Rose))
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: cut off date
Date: 20 Mar 93 22:29:35 GMT
Greetings to all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn, posting on her husband's
account since her feed has been down the last couple of weeks, and
he's out of town for the weekend, so she can read up and then mark
everything unread to give him a chance. <Sigh>
On the topic of cutoff dates, Gwenllian Cwmystwyth makes the admirable
point that such dates vary depending on topic. I agree with almost
everything she said, but have one small nit to pick. She writes,
> Cooking - 1625. (date is fuzzy in the ol'
> brain) Somewhere around here is the first "I'm a chef, so
> I'll muck with cooking how-to's" book.
Ummm, well, no. The first commonly-available-in-English, published,
post-classical cookbooks date from the 14th Century. The cookbooks
of known authorship by cooks of important households (Taillevent,
Chiquart, Martino) tend to date from the 14th and 15th Centuries.
(_Forme of Curye_, late 14th C, pretty much belongs in this class,
save that we don't know the author's name, only that he was Richard
II's head cook.) The frequently-used-in-the-SCA collections from
the early to mid 17th C (Hugh Platt; Kenelm Digby; etc.) by and large
are gentlemen's collections, _not_ written by major chefs. The
primary reasons for using them, to the best of my knowledge (I don't
do much work this late), are, in the case of Platt, that it gives
information about explicitly Elizabethan foods that is hard to find
elsewhere, and, in the case of Digby, that it is by far the richest
source of information on brewing (though there is a recipe for mead,
under the name "bouchet", in the Menagier, so there is at least one
earlier source, but only with one recipe, and nowhere near as clear
as Digby's).
Not a bad cutoff, in other words, but not quite for that reason.
-- Angharad/Terry
From: branwen at cerebus.ccc.amdahl.com (Karen Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Welsh recipes
Date: 2 Apr 93 21:35:17 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA
greg at silver.lcs.mit.edu (Hossein Ali Qomi (mka Gregory F. Rose)) writes:
>>his home. One time he held a Welsh bardic feast, where all the food was
>>made using Welsh recipes, and each guest was asked to bring a poem, song,
>>or story to share.
>Where, oh where did he get the Welsh recipes? Please?????
You'd have to ask him (John? oh, John?), but what I do when I want
Welsh recipes is use the Welsh mini-cookbook he brought me from Wales
(it's called something like "Recipes from the Bards," and is made up
of recipes of foods mentioned by Medieval Welsh bards), or, if none
of those are feasible for the moment, I use "The Little Book of Welsh
Recipes" (or whatever it's called; there's a whole series of "The Little
Book of ____ Recipes" out now) which has "traditional" Welsh recipes in
it.
Branwen ferch Emrys
The Mists, the West
Karen Williams
branwen at cerebus.ras.amdahl.com
From: ferzocog at ere.umontreal.CA (Ferzoco George)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: A must-read on medieval cuisine
Date: 9 Apr 1993 20:02:04 -0400
Hi guys and gals,
Just to say "no hard feelings", I'd like to point out a book I haven't
seen mentioned in sca; forgive me if I'm repeating this info.
For all of you interested in the state of the art of research on medieval
cookery, get the book
Carole Lambert, ed., "Du manuscrit a la table. Essais sur la
cuisine au moyen age et repertoire des manuscrits medievaux
contenant des recettes culinaires." Montreal and Paris: Presses
de l'Universite de Montreal and Champion-Slatkine, 1992.
It contains 25 articles in English and French (with abstracts for each in
English and French), an incredibly useful (to scholars) list of manuscripts
containing culinary recipes, a complete bibliography, and indices of:
titles and authors of cookery books
Incipits of culinary texts
titles of isolated recipes
language of the texts
place of production of the manuscripts
Hope this is useful. If you want more info, please don't post to sca,
but write to me directly.
Ciao, George Ferzoco ferzocog at ere.umontreal.ca
From: TALLAN at flis.utoronto.CA (David Tallan)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: New Book on Medieval Cookery (was, I believe, Scully etc. *LONG*
Date: 25 Jun 1993 01:44:00 -0400
Organization: The Internet
Angharad/Terry asks for enough info about that book out of Montreal
that I mentioned to order it. The Following might be helpful.
Title: _Du Manuscrit a` la Table_
Editor: Carole Lambert
Publisher: Les Presses de l'Universite' de Montre'al
2910, boul. E'douard-Montpetit, Montre'al (Qc), Canada
H3T 1J7
tel. (514) 343-6929, facs. (514) 343-2232
Distributer (?): gae[umlaut]tan morin e'diteur
diffuseur exclusif des Presses de l'Universite' de
Montre'al
C.P. 180, Boucherville (QC), Canada, J4B 5E6
tel. (514) 449-7886, facs. (514) 343-2232
ISBN: 2-7606-1564-2
and to whet your appetite:
TABLE DES MATIE`RES
(extraits)
Forward (or preface) by Carole LAMBERT
_I - ESSAIS SUR LA CUISINE AU MOYEN A^GE_
1. SOURCES
Constance B. HIEATT "Listing and Analyzing the Medieval English
Culinary Recipe Collections: a Project and its Problems"
Johanna Maria van WINTER "Une livre de cuisine ne'erlandais du XVIe
sie`cle"
Allen J. GRIECO "From the Cookbook to the Table: a Florentine Table
and Italian Recipes of the Fourteenth and Fifteenth Centuries"
Bi SKAARUP "Sources of Medieval Cuisine in Denmark"
Danie`le ALEXANDRE-BIDON "A` la table des miniaturistes: arche'o-
iconographie des gestes et des mets"
2. DIFFUSION DES LIVRES ET DES RECETTES
Philip et Mary HYMAN "Les livres de cuisine et le commerce des
recettes en France au XVe et XVIe sie`cles"
Melitta WEISS-AMER "The Role of Medieval Physicians in the Spread of
Culinary Recipes and Cooking Practices"
Mary Ella MILHAM "Platina and Papal Politics"
3. CUISINE ET DISTINCTIONS SOCIALES
Bruno Laurioux, "Table et hie'rarchie sociale a` la fin du Moyen A^ge"
Odile REDON "La re'glementation des banquets par les lois somptuaires
dans les villes d'Italie (XIVe - XVe sie`cles)
Agathe LAFORTUNE-MARTEL "De l'entremets culinaire aux pie`ces
monte'es d'un menu de propogande"
4. PARTICULARITE'S RE'GIONALES
Barbara SANTICH "les e'le'ments distinctifs de la cuisine me'die'vale
me'diterrane'enne
Rudolf GREWE "Hispano-Arabic Cuisine in the Twelfth Century
Jeanne ALLARD "Nola: rupture ou continuite'?"
Noe[umlaut]l COULET "La cuisine dans la maison aixoise du XVe sie`cle
(1400-1450)
Jean-Louis FLANDRIN "Structure des menus francais et anglais aux XIVe
et XVe sie`cles
Michel BALARD "E'pices et condiments dans quelques livres de cuisine
allemands (XVe-XVIe sie`cles)
5. CUISINE ET CONTRAINTES
Terence SCULLY "Les saisons alimentaires du _Me'nagier de Paris_"
Carole LAMBERT "Astuces et flexibilite' des recettes culinaires
me'die'vales francaises"
Laurier TURGEON et Denis DICKNER "Contraintes et choix alimentaires
d'un groupe d'appartenance: les marins-pe^cheurs francais a' Terre-
Neuve au XVIe sie`cle"
6. LES DOUCEURS ET LE PLAISIR
Liliane PLOUVIER "Le <<letuaire>>, un confiture du bas Moyen A^ge"
Lucie BOLENS "Les sorbets andalous (XIe-XIIIe sie`cles) ou conjurer
la nostalgie par la douceur"
Mary HYMAN "<<Les menues choses qui ne sont pas de ne'cessite'>>: les
confitures et la table"
Bruno ROY "Trois reagards sur les aphrodisiaques"
_II - RE'PERTOIRE DES MANUSCRITS ME'DIE'VAUX CONTENANT DES RECETTES
CULINAIRES_
Pre'sentation
Re'pertoire
Bibliographie
Index
Now doesn't that make your mouth water! If no enterprising Pennsic
merchant offers one for sale, my parents have offered (without too
much arm twisting) to get me it for my birthday. Grad student budget
or not, I cant miss this one. I've just got to start those French
lessons now...
Thomas/David
David Tallan (tallan at flis.utoronto.ca)
or David_Tallan at magic-bbs.corp.apple.com
snail: 42 Camberwell Rd. Toronto ON M6C 3E8
From: aj406 at yfn.ysu.edu (David L. Tallan)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: appetizers recipe
Date: 30 Apr 1993 04:17:18 GMT
Organization: Youngstown State/Youngstown Free-Net
I wish I had a copy of _Early English Meals and Manners_
a.k.a. _The Babee's Book_ but I must admit (with an
abiding sense of shame) that I do not own a copy of this
fine work and must rely on the library. For those in a
similar unfortunate situation I should perhaps point out
that it was edited by Furnivall and is part of the
Early English Text Society Original Series. It was
mentioned in a TI research column not too long ago so
you can get the full citation there).
This book is a "must read" for all of those interested
in the broader topic of the medieval meal (broader than
the individual recipes, that is). It contains a number
of fifteenth and sixteenth century "books of courtesy"
that give instruction in how a meal was to be served
and describes the table manners of the time.
What does all of this have to do with appetizers, you
ask. Well, one of the works contained therein, "John
Russell's Boke of Nurture" (15th C) in the instructions
on how a meal is to be served, tells of the food to be
fetched from the pantry and placed on the table both before
and after the meal. This does not appear in the menus and,
as it was not cooked or prepared, does not appear in the
recipe collections. The items after the meal were supposed
to aid the digestion and the items before the meal were,
if I remember correctly, supposed to prepare the stomach
for what was to come. They would thus seem to qualify as
appetizers.
So what were these items? Here's where I really wish I had
the book in front of me. My fallible memory tells me that
grapes, cherries and soft cheese were eaten before the
meal and apples, pears and hard cheese were eaten after
the meal but I welcome correction from someone who has
possession of the book.
Yours in research of the medieval meal,
David Tallan (who, as Thomas Grozier, has a fine cook
and loves to eat)
--
David Tallan
aj 406 OR
tallan at flis.utoronto.ca
From: jtn at nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Cooking refs
Date: 1 Jul 93 02:38:52 GMT
Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn. It has been
suggested in email that I might publish a list of sources
for people who'd like to start work in cookery. A complete
list of good stuff I know is available in English is
already long enough to be intimidating, and anyhow, it
suggests a kind of completeness that I can't claim. The
following is rather more specialized, in that it centers
on 14th and 15th C English and French cuisine (about which
I know rather more than I do about other places and times).
The following are books currently in print that contain
14th and 15th C recipes either in Middle English or in
English translation of French recipes. (Some also contain
the Middle French originals.)
Hieatt, Constance B., ed., _An Ordinance of Pottage_, Prospect
Books (London) 1988, ISBN 0-907325-38-6. Fifteenth C
English material. Middle English; includes an extensive
glossary.
Hieatt, Constance B. and Sharon Butler, eds., _Curye on Inglysch_,
Oxford University Press (London, New York, Toronto) 1985,
ISBN 0-19-722409-1 (Early English Text Society SS8). Fourteenth
C English material. Middle English; includes an extensive glossary.
Scully, Terence, _Chicart's On Cookery: A fifteenth-century
Savoyard culinary treatise_. Peter Lang (New York and Bern)
1986. Translation of Chiqart's _Du Fait de Cuisine_, dated
1420; the original French, edited by Scully, is available in
_Vallesia_ v. 40 (1985) 101-231.
Scully, Terence, _The Viandier of Taillevent: An Edition of all
Extant Manuscripts_, University of Ottawa Press (Ottawa), 1988,
ISBN 0-7766-0174-1. Manuscript dates vary; most of the material
probably originates from the mid to late 14th C, but at least
one of the manuscripts dates from the second half of the 13th C.
The books below are also English and French 14th and 15th Century
material, but are less readily available. They are, however, reproduced
in Cariadoc's collection of Medieval and Renaissance cookbooks (the
Hinson translation of the Menagier is in volume 2; the rest are in
volume 1). You may also be able to find some of them in libraries.
If you plan to go to Pennsic, you can buy Cariadoc's collections
there. If not, if you email him, he will let you know how to get
them by mail.
Austin, Thomas, ed., _Two Fifteenth-Century Cookery Books_, Early
English Text Society OS 91 (London) 1888; reprinted for the
EETS by Oxford University Press (London, New York, Toronto),
1964. Middle English; includes glossary.
Hinson, Janet, trans., Le Menagier de Paris (unpublished).
Napier, Robina, _Noble Boke of Cookry ffor a Prynce Houssolde or
eny other Estately Houssolde_. Elliott Stock (London) 1882.
English, about 1470. Middle English; includes glossary.
Nichols, John, ed., _Ancient Cookery_, London, 1790. Contains
recipes from Arundel MS 344; English material, early 15th C.
No glossary. (This MS is included in the Hieatt and Butler
volume above, so if you have that, this is redundant.)
Pegge, S., _The Forme of Cury. A Roll of Ancient English Cookery_,
London, 1780. This is the earliest extant edition of the
largest collections in Hieatt and Butler's _Curye on Inglysch_,
referenced above. The Hieatt and Butler edition is far better;
they had access to more manuscripts to compare, and their
scholarship is better.
Power, Eileen, trans., _The Goodman of Paris (Le Menagier de Paris,
abridged), London, 1928. French material, c. 1395.
There is another, newer edition of the Goodman out, for which I do
not have the information offhand.
Cariadoc's collection also includes both Kenelm Digby and Hugh Platt,
the two volumes I've been quoting from repeatedly in recent days.
Hawkwood Press has published a number of cooking related books,
including the Malinkrodt translation of Platina (but not the Latin),
as well as Epularius, both Italian, as well as several late English
works. Unfortunately, the usefulness of their editions is limited,
because they have an annoying tendency to eliminate the information
you need to do any scholarly work. For instance, in their reprint of
the _Babee's Boke_, they retitle it (so if you don't know what you've
got, you can't look it up), _and_ omit all the front material on the
dating of the MSs. Hence you wind up with a copy of John Russell's
Boke of Nurture, but no indication of its date. And likewise for
the other MSs it includes. Their version of Platina does not give
the name of the translator or the copyright information (the translation
is still under copyright); from what you get, if common sense didn't
tell you otherwise, you might think that Platina titled his work in
Latin, published it in Italy, and wrote it in -- modern -- English.
<Sigh>
But at least they have the texts.
-- Angharad/Terry
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: BDP at HOLONET.NET
Subject: Cooking refs
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1993 19:38:12 GMT
One other work which is now quite easy to find, and so I'm surprised
I haven't seen it mentioned, is Maxime de la Falaise's _Seven Centuries
of English Cooking_. (Barnes and Noble Press, 1992, ISBN 1-56619-112-2)
de la Falaise's book covers from the 14th - 20th centuries. The first
100 or so pages of the book (which is sitting not six inches from my
keyboard as I type this) are devoted to the 14th, 15th, 16th, and early
17th centuries. The author includes both the references and original
form of each recipe, as well as her modern English translation and an
explanation of the social and/or cultural relevance of each.
I *have* used this to make dinner for friends and family, actually.
The onion-almond soup got my roommate and I through the worst of the
rainy season, the tri-color potato soup is simmering right now for my
luncheon date in an hour, and the Roast Chicken with cold spiced
chicken re