cookbooks2-msg

cookbooks2-msg - 12/25/01

Reviews of cookbooks with medieval recipes. Messages posted after September 1995 but before December 1997.

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Stefan at florilegium.org

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[See cookbooks-msg for cookbook review messages posted prior to September

1995 and cookbooks3-msg for cookbook reviews posted after November 1997.]

From: RCMANN at delphi.com

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Food sources needed...Please help

Date: 17 Sep 1995 09:23:33 GMT

Quoting jtn from a message in rec.org.sca

>Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn.

>Brighid ni Chiarain writes:

>: There is a potato recipe in "The Good Huswifes Jewell" (1596). It

>: is also my favorite period recipe *title* -- 'To make a tarte that

>: is a courage to a man or woman'. ISTR that Karen Hess, in a note

>: in "Martha Washington's Cookbook" said that this recipe is

>: supposed to be an aphrodisiac, as potatoes had that reputation

>: then.

>Ah, so that's where it's from.

>One meaning of "courage" is "sexual vigor". (If you don't believe me,

>look it up. ;^) The title directly _says_ this is an aphrodisiac.

I believe you. :)

Come to think of it, I have heard an English folksong (probably

post-period) on a Maddy Prior album. The refrain was a woman

lamenting, "Me husband's got no courage in him".

>I have only the second part of the Good Hus-wiues Iewell (1606), which,

>on the pages of the text, bears the running head "A Booke of Cookerie".

>I have not seen the first part, but my impression was that it was

>largely a non-culinary miscellany, implying that the recipe in question

>would be viewed as medicinal, not as culinary (a treatment, not a food).

>Can you confirm or contradict?

The book contains both kinds of material, although it is primarily

a cookbook. There are about 30 medicinal recipes, mostly

clustered at the end -- and 3 times as many culinary recipes.

There are also a few remarks on animal husbandry. A few of the

remedies are scattered, apparently randomly, in the middle of the

cooking section. The "courage" tart appears between a culinary

recipe for filet of beef and a medicinal recipe for stewed cock

(which does not specify what it is supposed to cure!) that

includes pieces of gold in its list of ingredients.

(It would be interesting to research the belief in the curative

power of gold. In "Libro de Guisados" by Ruperto de Nola, there

is a recipe for a medicinal broth that is essentially chicken soup

that has been cooked with gold coins. The author asserts that it

will revive even those who are almost dead.)

The tart recipe also calls for the brains of cock sparrows

(another aphrodisiac ingredient, according to Karen Hess). Oh,

what the heck, why don't I just post the whole thing here?

"TO MAKE A TARTE THAT IS A COURAGE TO A MAN OR WOMAN

Take twoo Quinces and twoo or three Burre rootes, and a potaton,

and pare your Potaton, and scrape your rootes and put them into a

quart of wine, and let them boyle till they bee tender, & put in

an ounce of Dates, and when they be boyled tender, Drawe them

through a strainer, wine and all, and then put in the yolkes of

eight Egges, and the braynes of three or foure cocke Sparrowes,

and straine them into the other, and a little Rose water, and

seeth them all with suger, Cinamon and Gynger, and Cloves and

mace, and put in a little sweet butter, and set it upon a

chafingdish of coles between two platters, and so let it boyle

until it be something bigge."

>Cheers,

>-- Angharad/Terry

Robin Carroll-Mann ** rcmann at delphi.com

SCA: Brighid ni Chiarain, Settmour Swamp, East

p.s. It was a BAD idea to run this particular post through my

spellchecker. <g>

From: Gretchen Miller <grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Good Huswifes Jewell, for Angharad

Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:13:32 -0400

Organization: Computer Operations, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.rec.org.sca: 19-Sep-95 Re: Food sources

needed...P.. by Terry Nutter at newsserver.

> Well, shoot. I've got to find a copy of the first part.

Falconwood Press carries both parts--here's ordering info from the back

of my copy:

Falconwood press

193 Colonie Street

Albany, NY 12210-2501

If you would like to order any of the above books (the back includes

lists of "Our current catalogue includes"), please make your check

payable to "Susan J. Evans". Add $1. for the first book and $.50 for

each additional book to help cover the costs of shipping.

More embroidery and cookery books are being added. All of the counter

tread embroidery patterns have been carefully and accurately re-graphed

for clarity. Please send a SASE for the current list. Are there any

historical books you would like to see published? Drop us a line and

we'll consider adding to our catalogue.

toodles, margaret

From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Asking Recipes (fwd)

Date: 8 Nov 1995 03:12:29 GMT

Organization: University of California, Berkeley

: From: Bernard Thiry <bnt at CIGER.BE>

: To: Multiple recipients of list MEDIEV-L <MEDIEV-L at UKANVM.BITNET>

: Subject: Asking Recipes

: We are a group of friends who create a benevolent belgian society to promote

: Medieval by spectacle and animation. For our activities (especially

: banquet), we are searching more (easy to make) medieval recipes.

: If you know some very tasteful recipes (you test it, and you like it !),

: could you please it send me directly to my mail adress (bnt at ciger.be).

: Sorry for my poor English but My Mother Tongue is French.

I will apologize for not even attempting to respond in French, but here

are some French-language books on medieval cooking (or editions of French

medieval cooking texts) taken from the bibliography of "The Viandier of

Taillevent" (ed. Terence Scully).

"Viaunde e claree" (13th c.) in Constance B. Hieatt and Robin F. JOnes

"Two Anglo-Norman Culinary Collections Edited from British Library Mss

..." Speculum, 61 (1986), 859-882

"Le Viandier de Guillaume Tirel dit Taillevent" Ed. Jerome Pichon &

Georges Vicaire. Paris (1892)

"Le Menagier de Paris" ed. Georgine Brereton & Janet Ferrier. Oxford (1981).

Chiquart Amiczo, Maistre. "Du fait de cuisine". (15th c.) Vallesia, 40

(1985) 101-231.

"Recueil de Riom" ed. Carole Lambert. Montreal (1988)

I hope this is useful.

Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn

From: alkudsi at aol.com (AlKudsi)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Period Candy!

Date: 15 Nov 1995 01:22:42 -0500

There are quite a number of Middle Eastern confections and pastries within

period. Try the al-Baghdadi cookbook, translated by Charles Perry. There

is one called Halwa Yabisa which is very similar to divinity or taffy.

Another called Sabuniya is more like fudge without the chocolate. The

dates for the cookbook are 1226 AD (Christian era)/623 AH (Islamic date).

If you want actual recipes, I believe you can find them in the cooking

thread. If not, just e-mail me back, and I'll be happy to online them.

Honorable El-Sayyidda Saqra al-Kudsi

Barony of the Steppes, Kingdom of Ansteorra

From: ddfr at best.com (David Friedman)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Period Candy!

Date: 16 Nov 1995 06:19:03 GMT

alkudsi at aol.com (AlKudsi) wrote:

> There are quite a number of Middle Eastern confections and pastries within

> period. Try the al-Baghdadi cookbook, translated by Charles Perry. ... The

> dates for the cookbook are 1226 AD (Christian era)/623 AH (Islamic date).

You are confusing two, or possibly three, different cookbooks.

al-Baghdadi, which was written in 1226/623, was translated by Arberry

about sixty years ago. Charles Perry translated Ibn al-Mubarrad, which is

fifteenth century Middle Eastern, some years back and published it in PPC.

He later translated _Manuscrito Anonimo_, which is 13th century

Andalusian, and it is included in volume II of the collection of source

materials I sell.

All three cookbooks have Hulwa (sweets) recipes of one sort or another,

however, so it doesn't much matter. My standard Hulwa is from Ibn al

Mubarrad (I think).

David/Cariadoc

ddfr at best.com

From: cclark at vicon.net (C. Clark)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Period Cooking

Date: 8 Mar 1996 20:45:40 GMT

Organization: EMI Communications

memorman at oldcolo.com says...

>if you feel up to trying to redact (make a modern translation and

>cooking instructions) some period recipes yourself, the overall

>best source is probably Duke Cariadoc's 'Miscellany'. it includes

>photocopies of numerous out-of-print period cookbooks, from some

>middle eastern ones to goodman of paris to 'the two fifteenth century

>cookbooks'. (now note, i'm doing this from memory and do not have

>the book in front of me.) his grace is a frequent visitor to this

Just in case His Grace isn't around at the moment, let me offer a little

correction. These are two different books.

_A_Miscelleny_, by Cariadoc and Elizabeth. This has lots of

reconstructions of period recipes from a wide variety of sources. They

tend to be more accurate than most of what I have seen in the SCA.

_A_Collection_of_Medieval_and_Renaissance_Cookbooks_, compiled by Cariadoc

and Diana, et al. This contains transcriptions (vol. 1) and translations

(vol. 2) of a large number of period cookbooks.

I recommend both very highly. Contact Cariadoc (David Friedman) for

further information.

If you can read at least a little Middle English, then another excellent

book is _Curye_on_Inglysch_ by Constance B. Hieatt and Sharon Butler

(Oxford University Press, New York, 1985). This contains (probably) the

best available transcriptions of several English cookbooks from the 14th

century, including the famous _Forme_of_Cury_. Don't leave the twentieth

century without it. :)

Henry of Maldon

From: memorman at oldcolo.com (Mary Morman)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Period Cooking

Date: 12 Mar 1996 17:48:06 GMT

Organization: Old Colorado City Communications

David Friedman (ddfr at best.com) wrote:

: Thanks for the plug, but you are confusing two different things available

: from me. The Miscellany includes a lot of period recipes in both the

: original and worked out version, as well as articles on cooking and other

: subjects, poetry, etc. What you are describing is not the Miscellany but

: the two volumes of source material on cooking which I also sell. They are

: period (or 17th century) cookbooks, in some cases originally in English,

: in others translated. For more information, EMail me.

: David/Cariadoc

: ddfr at best.com

bad elaina! bad!

i knew the difference, your grace. really honestly. it was my fingers,

that's it! my fingers typed in the words without consulting my brain.

well, maybe my brain was off on vacation somewhere....

i apologize for the incorrect information, and still think the "collection

of medieval and renaissance cookbooks" is the single most valuable source

available to sca cook's. ( to save all the trouble of remembering names,

we usually just call it 'cariadoc's cookbook'...)

elaina

From: memorman at oldcolo.com (Mary Morman)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Period Cooking

Date: 14 Mar 1996 23:18:01 GMT

Organization: Old Colorado City Communications

Fraser Heather G (3hgf at qlink.queensu.ca) wrote:

: _Pleyn Delit_ isn't a perfect book -- Hieatt and Butler themselves later

: admitted to some mistakes of interpretation -- but it's a good one to get an

: SCA cook started on where they might take a period recipe and turn it into

: a dish. I highly recommend it for any SCA cook, and I think it's still

: in print even.

There is a new edition of "Pleyn Delit" out. I have not seen it yet,

but Mistress Jaelle has, and says that it is very worthwhile (but more

expensive than the original).

This is an excellent source for people new to SCA cooking. My son's

boarding school in Iowa even used it to re-create a big Renaissance

feast and faire for the school.

In Service,

ELAINA

Elaina de Sinistre, OP

Barony of Dragonsspine

Kingdom of the Outlands

memorman at oldcolo.com

From: alysk at ix.netcom.com(Elise Fleming )

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: "Thousand Eggs" Cookbook Available

Date: 19 Mar 1996 00:47:20 GMT

Greetings! In a recent post about cookbooks someone noted that Cindy

Renfrow's _Take A Thousand Eggs Or More_ was going out of print. Yes

and no. She will not re-publish it but the SCA Stock Clerk will.

Unfortunately, it seems they haven't made much note of that fact. So,

if you still want copies, they are available for $20 US for the set,

which includes shipping. Contact the Member Services Office, P.O. Box

360743, Milpitas, CA 95036-0743. (The first book has recipes and

redactions. The second has the original text with a modern-spelling

version, but no redactions.) If you are interested in seeing samples,

look at her web site: http://www.alcasoft.com/renfrow/ Hope this

helps those who were looking for the book!

Alys Katharine

From: pat at lalaw.lib.CA.US (Pat Lammerts)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: medieval cookbook

Date: 18 Mar 1996 23:45:00 -0500

Dorothea wrote:

>David Friedman <ddfr at best.com> wrote:

>>> >Maggie Black, _The Medieval Cookbook_....

>>> >pages. ISBN 0-7141-0583X. Price: 8.99 pounds

>>>

>>Is it any good as a medieval cookbook? Does it include the originals and

>>give their sources, and are its worked out recipes faithful to the

>>original?

>In fact, it does. Each recipe begins with the original Middle

>English text (with reference to the MS. in which it appears)

>followed by a redaction. When Black changes a recipe, as she

>occasionally does, she tells how and _why_ she is changing it (e.g.

>to reduce the fat content).

>As to whether it is up to your standards, why, you would have to

>read it and see.

>Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin Dorothy J. Heydt

>Mists/Mists/West UC Berkeley

>Argent, a cross forme'e sable djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu

>PRO DEO ET REGE

I have to beg to differ about this book. I have submitted a fuller

book review on this book to SERVE IT UP. If you subscribe to this

journal, you can read it in full.

However, after having read the book from cover to cover, I have

to say that, while in the beginning Ms Black does explain her

recipe changes, after chapter 3 she stops doing so. And there

are many later changes that she should have justified.

She also is very inconsistent with explaining some of the more

unusual ingredients, especially verjuice, powder fort and

powder douce. Her substitutions vary from recipe to recipe and

are not always correct, in my opinion. She also throws in thickeners

that are not called for in the original, and does not explain why.

Her usual thickener is rice flour/cornflour. While rice flour has

been used in period recipes, cornflour is OOP.

Her "Piment" recipe is badly done. She also includes two bread

recipes that she admits are modern.

I found her text light and breezy in style and not particularly

scholarly.

I would not recommend this book for a novice cook.

Huette

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

+ Mistress Huette Aliza von und zu Ahrens und Mechthildberg +

+ Ars non gratia artis, sed gratia pecuniae +

+ Kingdom of Caid +

+ Barony of the Angels, Canton of the Canyons +

+ (pat at lalaw.lib.ca.us) +

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: memorman at oldcolo.com (Mary Morman)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: medieval cookbook

Date: 21 Mar 1996 22:56:54 GMT

Organization: Old Colorado City Communications

Pat Lammerts (pat at lalaw.lib.CA.US) wrote:

: I have to beg to differ about this book. I have submitted a fuller

: book review on this book to SERVE IT UP. If you subscribe to this

: journal, you can read it in full.

Minor correction: Serve It Forth!

The issue of the journal with Mistress Huette's fine review (among others)

is the April 1996 issue, due out, believe it or not..... in April.

memorman at oldcolo.com

From: Deloris Booker <dbooker at freenet.calgary.ab.ca>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Period Cooking

Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 15:26:32 -0700

Organization: Calgary Free-Net

> Pleyn Delit is a good one. A new edition is out (so I hear). The authors are

> Sharon Butler and Constance Hiatt.

> I highly recommend it.

> meadhbh

Re: Pleyn Delit : yes, it is available in an expanded second edition.

The bibliographic bumph is as follows :

"Pleyn Delit: medieval cookery for modern cooks" by Constance B. Hieatt,

Brenda Hosington and Sharon Butler, University of Toronto Pr., Toronto,

ON, Canada. 1996. 0-8020-0678-7 (cloth); 0-8020-7632-7(Paper). The pb.

ed. is $Can. 16.95. The only complaint I have with the new ed. is that

the pb. binding is still very tight and the book does not lie open and

flat. However, eventually this binding will break as did the first and

the problem will solve itself. There are a numbeer of new recipies in

the second ed. and some of them look very good.

Aldreada of the Lakes

From: alysk at ix.netcom.com(Elise Fleming )

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Cooking Sources: Byzantine/Spanish

Date: 7 Jun 1996 20:12:38 GMT

Greetings! For Spanish/Catalan sources one can try Ruperto de Nola's

_Libro de Guisados_. Dionisio Perez edited an edition in "MCMXXIX"

which was printed in Madrid and is around in some university libraries.

One of Nola's editions was done in 1529. There is also the _Libro del

arte de cozina_, one edition of which was done in 1607. The _Libre de

Sent Sovi_ had a recent reprint done in Barcelona, 1979. This one is

in Catalan rather than Spanish. Duke Sir Cariadoc's _Collection of

Medieval and Renaissance Cookbooks, Volume II (6th edition, 1993),

contains an English translation of _An Anonymous Andalusian Cookbook of

the 13th Century_. This originated in Arabic. A Spanish translation

of a late 1500s Arabic copy was done for a doctoral thesis but contains

a number of translation errors which are corrected in the English

version.

Several of us have been working to translate the first two books

mentioned but procrastination has set in (on my part, at least). How

bilingual are you???

Alys Katharine