sports-msg - 3/14/14
Medieval sports. Hurley, shinty, battledore. Book reviews.
NOTE: See also the files: games-msg, Helga-Ball-msg, darts-msg, games-SCA-msg, Brf-Lok-Tennis-art, golf-msg, wintr-sports-lnks, Golf-Med-Era-art, Stool-ball-art, Curling-art.
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From: ak508 at cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Raymond Benne)
Date: 15 Nov 91 00:06:28 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
In a previous article, grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu (Gretchen Miller) says:
>I've recently started looking into period games, both atheletic and
>otherwise. Unfortunately, aside from "The Compleat Gamester", which is
>about 20 years out of period, and a few mentions of football, bowling,
>tennis, and various card and dice games, I have been able to find very
>little.
>
>Besides Master Samalluh's (please pardon the mangled spelling) book,
>does anyone know of any good secondary or primary sources for games
>descriptions? Is anyone else researching card, dice and athletic games
>(outside of tourney/fencing/martial arts)? Want to share
>research/ideas/sources?
>
>toodles, margaret macdubhsidhe
Good Mi Lady; If I may reccomend.
The English at Play in the Middle Ages
Teresa McLean - Kensal Press
(Kensal Press, Shooter Lodge, Windsor Forest, Berks)
Contents follow
1) Out of Doors
2) Animal Sports
3) Hunting, Hawking and Fishing
4) Tournaments, Jousts and Tilts
5) Outdoor and House and Garden Games
6) Board, Table
7) Glee, Medieval Music, Singing and Dancing
8) Medieval Drama
9) Folk Games
While I can not speak for its authenticity the author does hold a PHD in
in Medieval Monsatic Economics from Trinity College, Cambridge
She is also the author of Medieval English Gardens
Miles Ravenslock d'Arcy
Subject of the Dragon throne
From: greg at bronze.lcs.mit.edu (Greg Rose)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Chinese - yes or no ??
Date: 29 Jun 1993 16:08:13 -0400
Organization: MIT LCS guest machine
Fiacha writes:
>I do not know of any Mongol games so I make no judgement in that area.
The two principal Mongol games of which I am aware are Nishapur and
Rug-by (but you need an Abbasid and a cavalry turma to play the latter).
Hossein/Greg
From: corun at access.digex.net (Corun MacAnndra)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Chinese - yes or no ??
Date: 29 Jun 1993 19:08:28 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
In article <20q7fd$2o0 at bronze.lcs.mit.edu> greg at bronze.lcs.mit.edu (Greg Rose) writes:
>Fiacha writes:
>>I do not know of any Mongol games so I make no judgement in that area.
>
>The two principal Mongol games of which I am aware are Nishapur and
>Rug-by (but you need an Abbasid and a cavalry turma to play the latter).
There is another called Aklagh Tarteesh, which translates loosely as "picking
up sheep at a gallop." No, really.
In service,
Corun
==============================================================================
Corun MacAnndra | God runs electromagnetics on Mon., Wed. and Fri. by
Dark Horde by birth | the wave theory and the Devil runs it by quantum
Moritu by choice | theory Tue., Thur. and Sat. -- Sir Wm. Bragg
From: adelekta at kentvm.kent.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Chinese - yes or no ??
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 93 13:07:03 EST
Organization: Kent State Univ.
corun at access.digex.net (Corun MacAnndra) writes:
>There is another called Aklagh Tarteesh, which translates loosely as "picking
>up sheep at a gallop." No, really.
This sounds remarkably similar to bozkashi, a central asian game whose name
translates as "goat catch." These livestock games sound like a pretty common
nomadic pastime... :)
-Zimra al-Ghaziyah
From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Gaelic Sport
Date: 18 Jun 1996 04:07:39 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
CB36478 (cb36478 at aol.com) wrote:
: Anyone know the orgins of modern gaelic sport. Hurling, gaelic football,
: handball? Bibliographical source?
I know there are references to a sport translated as "hurley" in the
medieval tale of Cuchulain -- I'm not familiar enough with the modern
sport to know how close the two seem. The chances are that somewhere in
some Irish journal there will be at least one in-depth article on the
subject, but I can't give you any more specific pointers than that.
Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: viking games and competitions?
From: priestdo at cs.vassar.edu (Greg Priest-Dorman)
Date: 22 Dec 1993 12:25:18 GMT
In article <1993Dec20.152318.25809 at bsu-ucs> 00mjstum at leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (Matthew J. Stum) writes:
Other types of sports probably not suitable to the SCA are
... stone lifting/tossing.
I have some very nice memories, and no scars or bruses, from a rock
throwing competition at an event a few years back - come to think of
it, I believe it was an MSR event, not SCA but either way, if you
have enough room for archery, you have enough room for rock throwing
(less room? - use a bigger rock) It was interesting watching "styles"
evolve. If I recall the winner tossed starting from a crouched
position with his back to the line, throwing over his head, keeping
his back to the line! Anyway, it was alot of fun to do and watch.
Is there refrence to rock throwing in the north (I know that giant
chucked a rock at Thor once but that's about it)?
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: nostrand at bayes.math.yorku.ca (Barbara Nostrand)
Subject: Re: tennis, anyone...?
Organization: York University
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 1994 00:07:11 GMT
Noble Cousins!
Arbeau in Orcheosgraphy (sp) also specifically mentions tennis as a pastime
played by young men. He says that there are 3 pastimes for young men:
Tennis, Fencing and Dancing and only Dancing is appropriate to do around
and with young ladies.
Your Humble Servant
Solveig Throndardottir
From: Russ Gilman-Hunt <Russ_Gilman-Hunt at continue.uoregon.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Gaelic Sport
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 07:00:01 -0700
Organization: University of Oregon Portland Center
Heather Rose Jones wrote:
> I know there are references to a sport translated as "hurley" in the
> medieval tale of Cuchulain --
(snip)
>
> Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn
And if I remember correctly, they played it with a ball and a stick.
Although according to Charles Squire's _Celtic_Myths_And_Legends_, the
ball was about the size of a human brain and fairly hard. I can't find
the exact page right now, but it was a pretty gruesome detail that
happened to stick in my, uh, never mind. ;)
Lord Conchobhar of Kamrun (Clan MacGuinness) W.O.A.W.!
Russ_Gilman-Hunt at continue.uoregon.edu
From: The Shrew <shrew at pioneer.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Gaelic Sport
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 17:27:12 -0700
Organization: Shrewsbury Renaissance Faire
There is a game that the Celts play at most of the Ren Faires I have
done, with a ball and a stick...but they call it something like "shinty".
I can truthfully say, after watching the survivors crawl off the field,
that there are no brains involved....either with the equipment or the
players.....tee hee. sorry. Do you know anything about this one? Or is
it the same game with a different name? Just curious.
Play Faire!
the Shrew ~~~~( 8:>
Shrewsbury Renaissance Faire
From: s.krossa at aberdeen.ac.uk (Sharon Krossa)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Gaelic Sport
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 21:43:46 +0000
Organization: Phuture PhuDs
The Shrew <shrew at pioneer.net> wrote:
>There is a game that the Celts play at most of the Ren Faires I have
>done, with a ball and a stick...but they call it something like "shinty".
> I can truthfully say, after watching the survivors crawl off the field,
>that there are no brains involved....either with the equipment or the
>players.....tee hee. sorry. Do you know anything about this one? Or is
>it the same game with a different name? Just curious.
>
>the Shrew ~~~~( 8:>
>Shrewsbury Renaissance Faire
The modern Irish play a game with ball & sticks called hurling, while the
modern Scottish Gaels play a game with ball & sticks called, in English or
Scots, shinty, and in Gaelic either camanachd (according to the TV sports
report) or iomain (according to my modern Scottish Gaelic dictionaries,
where, at least to the Scots, hurling/hurley is called iomain Eireannach).
The stick/club used for shinty, hurley, or golf, is called (in modern
Scottish Gaelic) a 'caman'. I have no idea what the game was called in
period though the term shinty only shows up in the 18th century in Scots,
and there isn't a historical dictionary of Scottish Gaelic available just
yet.
Shinty is vaguely like field hockey in nature, although the danger to life
and limb is apparently higher in shinty ;-)
Effric neyn Cannich vic Herrald
mka Sharon Krossa, who has played the odd friendly at US Ren. Faires, but
wouldn't dare even suggest the idea of her playing the game in Scotland...
Sharon Krossa: skrossa at svpal.org (permanent)
-or- s.krossa at aberdeen.ac.uk (until November 1996)
From: Ian Gourdon mka Dan Stratton <agincort at imperium.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period games and sports - children and adult
Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 18:28:37 -0500
Organization: Glen Awe Enterprises, a Division of Yoyodine
Mark Waks wrote:
> >Tennis and croquet are both period, don't know if today's tennis racket
> >can pass for period though.
>
> Tennis *is* period, although it's changed a bit. Where do you find
> croquet, though? Games sorta vaguely like croquet existed in period
> (indeed, billiards began as a tabletop variant of them), but croquet
> as we know it was, I believe, invented around 1820ish...
>
> (I actually came across a book recently that gave the name of the
> fellow who invented the game, but I don't remember off the top of
> my head which book it was in...)
>
> -- Justin
G'day Justin,
I've played tennis with the Jamestown Fort reinactors, which is barely
post period, but their research should be good. They likely could
comment on technical details. The main differences are; the feather
stuffed home-made tennis balls, and the raquets aren't tensioned nearly
as highly as modern ones...
Ian Gourdon
From: damouth at euclid.eecs.umich.edu (Daniel Damouth)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Anyone have sources for battledore?
Date: 4 Mar 1997 05:47:40 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
One of the most fun activities I saw at an event was medieval badminton,
called battledore I believe. It's playing with wooden paddle-like things
and a small dead ball of some sort. I remember the rules that were
taught at that event, I think, but it would be better if someone more
expert would come forth and describe the activity.
In fact, if someone could document the rules to me I would very much
appreciate it and might even act as facilitator for battledore in my
region of the Middle Kingdom. I love it so much. I have never
lost a match :)
I hereby issue challenge to all battledore champions. Let me know
where there is a battledore tourney and I shall make efforts to
attend and face you.
-Daniel of Cynnabar, who is competing in a badminton tournament
this weekend :-)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: hlf at holmes.acc.Virginia.EDU (H L. Falls)
Subject: Re: Anyone have sources for battledore?
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 19:52:04 GMT
Daniel Damouth <damouth at euclid.eecs.umich.edu> wrote:
>One of the most fun activities I saw at an event was medieval badminton,
>called battledore I believe. It's playing with wooden paddle-like things
>and a small dead ball of some sort. I remember the rules that were
>taught at that event, I think, but it would be better if someone more
>expert would come forth and describe the activity.
>
>In fact, if someone could document the rules to me I would very much
>appreciate it and might even act as facilitator for battledore in my
>region of the Middle Kingdom. I love it so much. I have never
>lost a match :)
Someone around here introduced a similar-sounding game which he
calls "kingly bats", which (from what he said, I don't have the
documentation to hand -- sorry) he adapted from a Norse game/shield
practice. It's played with buckler/small shield bats (round, center
(strap) grip, about a foot in diameter) and a hollow-plastic toy
baseball. (Supposedly the Norse used small rocks, but we do plenty
of damage to ourselves with the baseball!)
I don't know if this is anything like the game you have in mind,
but maybe it'll give you a starting point. I can try to get in
touch with him for more information, if you like.
>-Daniel of Cynnabar
--Landi Haraldsson
From: Andrew Tye <atye at efn.org>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Viking Longball
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 21:44:13 -0800
Organization: Oregon Public Networking
On 5 Mar 1997, Michael Newton wrote:
> I read once in a history of baseball of a game known as viking Longball,
> the object of the game was to hit a ball over a line. Can anyone direct
> me to some more detailed rules?
>
> Thorbjorn Bjornson
We used to play a game called Norse Stickball here in An Tir. The rules
had been reconstructed by some gentle back in the earlies and were
published in one the back issues of the Elf Hill Times. Unfortunately, I
do not know which one. The game was until a couple of years ago one the
main events at the Egil Skallagrimsonar Memorial Tourney that our barony
has been hosting for about 22 years now. It has been cancelled/banned, I
believe, because of liability concerns at the Kingdom level. (A couple of
the rules that I remember were: Karate blows were discouraged. All body
parts removed must be returned to their owners at the end of the game.)
The two teams (shirts/skins) got to divide a large kettle of Atholbrose at
the end of the game. If I look/ask around I can probably find the
citation and rules.
Ivar Hakonarson
Adiantum, An Tir.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mondsee at idirect.com (Dana Cushing)
Subject: BOUZKHASHI = Sheep Rugby
Date: 13 Mar 97 01:51:09 UTC
Steve Smith wrote:
> Once Upon A Time, I heard a description of a sport called "sheep rugby".
> I would appreciate it very much if someone could provide me with a
> description and/or set of rules for this noble sport.
>
> -- Etienne
Here in the good city of Eoforwick we have played this wonderful game
for two generations... the original sheep "Murphy" and his offspring
"Also Murphy". ;)
The rules for playing on foot as we see it:
Establish two poles a goodly jog apart - each team claims one (colored
flags help)
Place sheep in middle in circle
Scrum for sheep
Run toward oponent's pole
Oponent try to grab sheep and run it round the other way
(Please note that the above is completely optional, because...)
Once the sheep has done a figure-8 the idea is to place it back in the centre
(to make the game shorter one can simply play the
head-for-the-oponent's-pole-and-loop-around-to-ours version)
The reason this is so much fun is that it's completely unpredictable
until the sheep hits the goal. The fact that several people are hit,
ganged up on, etc. just adds to the excitement.
The game was apparently afghani sheep polo originally.
Ludende bene!
Austrechild
(PS... There was an article written by a local (?) in TI some time ago -
I highly recommend it for a more detailed version.)
From: david.razler at worldnet.att.net (David M. Razler)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: BOUZKHASHI = Sheep Rugby
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 06:56:38 GMT
The sport, as played in Afghanistan, is more like polo with a vengeance (in
fact, spectators are frequently killed at matches)
The object of the game involves your team of horsemen maintaining possession
of a sand-filled goat skin and getting it over a course, while preventing the
other team from doing same, by roughly any means possible to someone armed
only with a horse.
As I recall, size of the teams is rather large and not fixed, nor is the size
of the field, one of the reason spectators get run down.
One of the funniest speeches I ever heard came at the start of the Soviet
occupation of Afghanistan, given by former columnist Jack Anderson, who asked
how the Soviets "ever hoped to control a people whose national sport is goat
dragging?" and proceeded to describe the National Passtime.
dmr/Aleksandr
David M. Razler
From: Brian Dorion <brian.dorion1 at sympatico.ca>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: BOUZKHASHI = Sheep Rugby
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 21:43:52 -0500
Bouzkhashi has a long tradition up here in Ealdormere. It is usually
played with a stuffed sheep (there is a long lineage of great sheep that
have given their all for this game!).
Bouzkhashi is played on a field with three marks. In the center is the
home plate and close to either end of the playing area is a team marker.
There are two teams who are both armed for armoured combat. Each team
starts on their marker. The sheep starts on the home plate.
The sheep must be carried around both team markers and be returned to
home plate. The winning team is the team that places the sheep upon the
home plate. It doesn't matter who carries the sheep around the team
markers, only who puts the sheep back onto the home plate.
A warning: Do not get carried away with fighting. Too often team A
will notice that while they have been happily murdering team B, a member
of tean B will have casually picked Murphy up, carried him around the
team markers and won the game. Stay focused on the victory conditions,
or fight whatever makes you happy.
A version is to play resurrection Bouzkhashi. That's a real endurance
test.
Konrad
From: fridrikr at news.vivanet.com (Thomas W. Ireland)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: BOUZKHASHI = Sheep Rugby
Date: 14 Mar 1997 13:44:47 GMT
Michael Newton (MELCNEWTON at postoffice.worldnet.att.net) wrote:
: ateno at panix.com (Eric A. Rhude) wrote:
: >We in Ostgardr play a version of this modified for heavy weapons
: >fighting.
: >We take the head of a Roman Legionaire (usually 10-15 lbs of sand
: >in a bag and duct taped) and sew it in fabric and choose three even
: >sides.
: >Then three goals are chosen from the local landmarks and the head is
: >placed in the middle of the three.
: >Each participant can only carry 1 - one handed weapon sword, mace, dagger,
: >axe, excetera.
: >
: >Now the idea is to get the head and bring it back to your goal.
: >played to what ever we want, or how rainy it is.
: >For a change make the rules to bring the goal to the goal on your right/left.
:
: This is starting to sound more and more like the Shire March of the
: Grimfells' annual event/game of Blood of Heroes, in which two teams, with
: _no_ bounderies! try to get a dog's head {last time I went it was out
: syrofoam. I think} into one or another plastic bucket somewhere on the
: field. A very loose, and wild, game!
: Lady Beatrix of Thanet
Which brings to mind Baby Harp Seal game in Coppertree. Three teams, a
baby harp seal (stuffed, of course), very few rules. Very strange and
weird.
FRIDRIKR
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: Paul Kay <paul.kay at lincroftnj.ncr.com>
Subject: Re: BOUZKHASHI = Sheep Rugby
Organization: N&SM
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 17:58:45 GMT
To the original poster - The form played in Yorvick area (and Northwoods
and other places) is probably the original. It is based on an idea and
TI article by some Toronto local there named Finvarr de Tah (sorry for
the spelling errors). You may have head of him? :*):*) I understand
he was king of the East once, too. :*):*):*)
For those who saw Rambo 3, that game he played in Afganistan on
horse-back is what this bouzkhashi was based on, but we use the
pre-1930's rules. (Guns and swords were finally banned from the games
when repeating guns became easier to get in Afganistan, I have heard.
They are still using whips, on each other as well as the horses. It is
a serious game there!)
I brought the game east and we have been playing by nearly the same
rules as Finvarr wrote - all melee rules apply (including engagement
rules), around both posts and back to the goal, doesn't matter who is
carrying the sheep around the posts, The winning team is the one who's
member puts the sheep back on the starting point/goal and makes it
stick.
It is amusing when someone misses the point and the sheep makes 3
circuits. :*) Most entertaining is when folks start fighting each
other, forget victory conditions, and one person casually walks the
sheep to the goal. :*):*)
The sheep we use out here, Edgar the Dead Sheep, is about 7 month old
lamb size and about half that weight (overall 2.5 X 1 X .5 feet,excluding
legs and about 20+ pounds). He is fleecy fabric, except or face, filled
with rags, with empty black cloth as legs, and is grabable, just a bit
heavy. The construction is such that you can safely parry with Edgar,
although he is a bit light to strike with. :*) We do insist on
gauntlets to hand carry, although tucking under a sword arm or behind a
shield is do-able.
Not only is bouzkhashi fun to play, it is fun to watch. It is very
popular at the annual charity Ren Fair we help at. The guests love it.
I have heard Moonwolf has a version more closely resembling US Football,
but I have never gotten to see or play it (darn it!).
As to the article thread I am quoting, Michael Newton wrote:
> ateno at panix.com (Eric A. Rhude) wrote:
> >We in Ostgardr play a version of this modified for heavy weapons
> >fighting.
No Eric, you play a version modified by Ian to be more silly. :-O:*)
It is a hoot to do, but this was more like the Moonwolf modification.
I think Ian got some of the ideas from Sir Emric who used to hang with
Moonwolf. It sounds like the version Emric described made odder.
> This is starting to sound more and more like the Shire March of the
> Grimfells' annual event/game of Blood of Heroes, in which two teams, with
> _no_ bounderies! try to get a dog's head {last time I went it was out
> syrofoam. I think} into one or another plastic bucket somewhere on the
> field. A very loose, and wild, game!
> Lady Beatrix of Thanet
No that came from a really fun grade Z movie of the same name that
starred Rutger Hauer. I always thought it would be a hoot.
So, anyone from Indiana want to give the rules Moonwolf uses?
Bart the Bewildered
Carillion, East
--
Paul Kay
NCR
Lincroft, NJ paul.kay at lincroftnj.ncr.com
From: user at srmdel.demon.co.uk (Michael Lacy)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Medieval Sports
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 20:40:48 +0100
tdevon at mindspring.com (T. Devon Sharkey) wrote:
>I'm a bit of a sports buff, and beyond tourney fighting, I'd like to
>see what interest there is any good research on the games and sports
>played during europe during the late middle ages and Rennaisance.
snip
>Does anyone have good, detailed sources on the equipment, rules, and
>play of these games in their ancient form? Would anyone be interested
>in playing these games at Pensic or some other large scale event?
In the early nineteenth century (1801), Joseph Strutt published a classic
study in this field called 'Sports and Pastimes of the People of England'
which has been reprinted several times. That might be a good place to
start looking for ideas.
Earl Michael DeLacy
From: Ray at amygdala.demon.co.uk (Ray Almond)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Medieval Sports
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 97 20:48:57 GMT
tdevon at mindspring.com "T. Devon Sharkey" writes:
> I'm a bit of a sports buff, and beyond tourney fighting, I'd like to
> see what interest there is any good research on the games and sports
> played during europe during the late middle ages and Rennaisance.
> Three sports which still enjoy remarkable popularity come to mind:
> football (or soccer if you prefer), golf and tennis.
>
> Does anyone have good, detailed sources on the equipment, rules, and
> play of these games in their ancient form? Would anyone be interested
> in playing these games at Pensic or some other large scale event?
With regard to tennis the game that is period is what would now be called
Real (or Royal) Tennis in England and, I think, Court Tennis in America.
It's played in a walled court with a gallery around two sides of it.
There is a fairly recent book called "The Royal Game", Editors L.St.J. Butler
and P.J. Wordie. I don't know if it is still in print but the details are as
follows: ISBN 0 9514622 0 2 (cloth) 0 9514622 1 0 (paper). Published
in 1989 by the Falkland Palace Real Tennis Club, Fordhead, Kippen,
Stirling FK8 3JQ, UK.
This is a series of essays about the history/development of tennis. Although
it doesn't have a formal bibliography it does quote various primary sources
in the text and is a very readable history. I think the earliest source
quoted is about 1330. Originally it would have been played with the bare
hand but rackets came in somewhere in the late 1400s. Modern Lawn Tennis
dates to the 1870s and was largely codified in 1877 in time for the first
Wimbledon Championships.
If you can't get hold of it let me know and I'll try to extract some of the
primary sources and post the references here.
HTH
--
Ray Almond
(btw Ray = Female)
From: bronwynmgn at aol.com (Bronwynmgn)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Medieval Sports
Date: 24 Jun 1997 20:40:18 GMT
HPGV80D at prodigy.com (Patricia Hefner) writes:
>I am also interested in sources for medieval sports. Does anybody know if
>the northern Europeans played games on ice? The first mention of the
>word "skate" was in 1573 (in Dutch). But skates as we know them didn't
>come into existence until the nineteenth century. I don't know how good
>this particular source is, but I read where people would get sharp pieces
>of bone and tie them to their feet. Then they'd get two large sticks to
>use as poles, and they'd navigate on the ice. Can anybody substantiate
>this?
The book _Pleasures and Pastimes in Medieval England_, by Compton Reeves,
ISBN 0-7509-0089-X, mentions all aspects of medieval leisure activities
from literature and the arts to sports, gardening, going to taverns, and
prostitution. It has this to say about ice skating and sports on the ice
(Page 93-94):
"When cold weather produced ice, ball games were moved onto the ice. Ice
camping, and ice bandy-ball are mentioned, and curling, which probably
resembled quoits in its earliest form, could be played. Skating on ice
was not unusual, and skates made from the bones of cattle and horses have
been recovered from archaeological sites, many from London and York. The
bone skates were sometimes strapped onto the feet, but not always, because
the skating technique used was to keep the skates flat on the ice and move
y pushing against the ice with a stick or pole. William fitz Stephen, in
his 'Life of Thomas Becket' (written between 1170 and 1183) described
skating on the Moorfields outside London, indicating that the skaters used
poles to propel themselves along, had their skates made of animal
shin-bones bound to their feet, and that sometimes reckless youths
deliberately raced at each other from a distance and crashed together
using their poles as if tilting. Bodily injury was not at all unknown.
All ages engaged in skating, and a poignant archaeological find of 1899
was at College Street, Ipswich, where a female skeleton was found with
bone skates, embedded in the mud of what had been the bed of a river."
Although it does not have any pictures of skating, there are reproductions
of many period representations of the leisure activities discussed in
other parts of the book.
Bronwyn
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 13:49:45 -0500 (CDT)
From: "J. Michael Shew" <jshewkc at pei.edu>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: toys, esp. childrens
I have had a devil of a time documenting this, but I found mention
of a game played in period, having three sticks set up at one end of a
field, and tossing a third to knock them down.
I built a "Kid friendly" set of golf tubes mounted with plastic
funnels on the end for the Ansteorran kids in the camp at lilies this
year. Got to be so much fun that the adults played quite often.
Mikal
____________________________________________________________________________
Mikal the Ram; an annoying Bard of no redeeming qualities
From: kellogg at rohan.sdsu.edu (C. Kevin Kellogg)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Shuttle-cock (was: This ain't volleyball, girls)
Date: 27 Jun 1997 18:11:31 GMT
Organization: San Diego State University
C. Scipio Cinncinatvs (scipio at why.net) wrote:
: I once saw a picture of a Roman mosaic where men were engaged in a game
: that looked remarkably like hackey-sack. I would think that volleyball
: might not be too far a reach, if we can find some documentation. And isn't
: badminton (you know the shuttle-cock game!) period?
A game called "shuttle-cock" using wooden paddles and a cork ball
with feathers stuck in it, but without a net, is period. Made myself a
set. Hard part was finding cork balls. Finally found a plumbing company
with some outdated cork toilet floats gathering dust.
Avenel Kellough
From: Dave Earl <daveearl at altus.speednet.com.au>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Medieval Sports
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 05:33:44 +1000
> I'm a bit of a sports buff, and beyond tourney fighting, I'd like to
> see what interest there is any good research on the games and sports
> played during europe during the late middle ages and Rennaisance.
> Three sports which still enjoy remarkable popularity come to mind:
> football (or soccer if you prefer), golf and tennis.
>
> Does anyone have good, detailed sources on the equipment, rules, and
> play of these games in their ancient form? Would anyone be interested
> in playing these games at Pensic or some other large scale event?
I've just been writing an article on sports and games in the Sixteenth
and Seventeenth Centuries. The most thorough and comprehensive book on
games and sports in the middle ages is:
*Fun and Games in Old Europe* by W.Endrei and L.Zolnay, Corvina Kiado,
Budapest, 1986.
It shouldn't be too hard to get a hold hold of.
Don't fall into the trap of thinking that because a book is older it is
more accurate. Strutt's work is largely inaccurate, and as far as i can
see a work of fantasy.
If you are interested in golf, then:
The earliest game of golf I've heard of was in 1297, commemorating the
death of Florence V, Count of Holland and Zeeland. Since then there is a
continuous record of references until the present. Most sources are in
the form of various laws enacted against golf, which was for the most
part an urban occupation.
The first illustration of golf is from an illumated book of hours dated
to about 1500AD, and kept in the British Museum. it is known,
unsurprisingly, as the 'Golf Book'.
It appears various forms of golf were popular until the seventeenth
century, where, except for in Scotland and Holland, the game was adopted
by children. Towards the end of trhe seventeenth century the game, in
it's Scottish variant, enjoyed a renaissance, and has developed into
it's modern form.
The best available books on the history of golf are:
Ian Henderson and David Stirk, "Golf in the Making", Crawley, 1979.
J. H. van Hengel, "Early Golf", Drukkerij Tensinkl, 1982
Patricia wrote:
> I am also interested in sources for medieval sports. Does anybody know if
> the northern Europeans played games on ice? The first mention of the
> word "skate" was in 1573 (in Dutch). But skates as we know them didn't
> come into existence until the nineteenth century. I don't know how good
> this particular source is, but I read where people would get sharp pieces
> of bone and tie them to their feet. Then they'd get two large sticks to
> use as poles, and they'd navigate on the ice. Can anybody substantiate
> this?
I think I may be able to help you. Firstly, the old Norse word
'isleggr' (literally 'ice leg-bone') neatly corresponds with the
practice of attching a metapodial bone from a horse, cow or deer to the
bottom of the shoe with a peice of leather thong. Many examples of these
bone 'skates' have been found at Birka and York.
They are recognisable because of their polised undersides, with uppers
that have often been deliberately roughened by a seruies of lines scored
across the bone. Holes have been drilled though the back of the bone,
and sometimes the front to enable the attachment of a thong.
Skating was apparently practiced right up until the the modern period; a
woodbock by Olaus Magnus, dated at 1555, shows ice skaters, and there
are numerous references from the sixteenth century onwards.
Magnus' illustration shows the skaters using two sticks, in the manner
of skiing.
If you want an illustration, then perhaps try:
Magnus Magnusson (with a name so absurd he could almost be in the SCA),
'Vikings!', Bodley Head press, London, 1980
This should be easily attainable.
Also look at a book called 'The Viking Dig'- I don't have
bibliographical details nearby, and another handy (though hard to find)
book is:
Helen Clarke and Bjorn Ambrosiani, 'Towns in the Viking Age', Leicester
Uni Press, London, 1995
I hope I've been able to help you all, and good luck in trying to rope
some people into playing with you.
Dave Earl
From: justin at inmet.COM (Mark Waks)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Medieval Sports
Date: 27 Jun 1997 10:59:51 -0400
Dave Earl recommends:
>The most thorough and comprehensive book on
>games and sports in the middle ages is:
>
>*Fun and Games in Old Europe* by W.Endrei and L.Zolnay, Corvina Kiado,
>Budapest, 1986.
>
>It shouldn't be too hard to get a hold hold of.
I didn't find it especially easy to obtain, but Amazon Books was able
to procure it for me (http://www.amazon.com). Probably anyone who
deals with out-of-country special orders can do so as well, but Amazon
is pretty convenient.
While I haven't used the book extensively, I would concur that
it's generally pretty good on sports; offhand, I can't think of
anything better. On more sedate games, there are certainly
better books (Murray's History of Board Games Other Than Chess,
for example), but this one serves as a pretty good survey, and
the illustrations can't be beat. (Although I sometimes found
the translation a little lacking; I think they got confused about
English terminology in a couple of spots...)
For a few random bibliographies on period games, check out the
Period Games Homepage:
http://www.inmet.com/~justin/game-hist.html
-- Justin
Who desperately needs to update his own
bibliography there...
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: Mark Waks <justin at intermetrics.com>
Subject: Re: Activity games
Organization: Intermetrics, Inc
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:03:40 GMT
Karl A Haefner wrote:
> Prithee, good gentles. I am in search of sources of activity-style games,
> such as Barleye Breake; games that can be very "showy" so as to attract an
> audience. Nine Mans Morris and Notty just don't do it.
A couple of other games are listed under the Rules page of the Period
Games Homepage:
http://www.inmet.com/~justin/game-hist.html
I am particularly fond of bowls/bocce, and horseshoes, both of which are
quite period, take up some space, and look neat; I've had good luck with
both. (Especially horseshoes, which makes loud clanging noises, good for
getting attention.)
For more group involvement, Blind Man's Bluff is hard to beat, and
requires little explanation...
If you have a little time, there is an excellent discussion of Active
Games in Baron Sallamallah's book, "Medieval Games"; ordering
information can be found at:
http://www.inmet.com/~justin/justin_bib.html#salaamallah
This covers a wide variety of period active games...
-- Justin
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 22:27:47 -0400
From: Bonne <oftraquair at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Pancake Races
Anne-Marie Rousseau wrote:
> Other games include wet rag on a stick, gurning, melon eating, turnip
> carving, Izzy Dizzy, Spin in the Bucket, and other assorted goofiness.
What about Hunkerhausen? (bad attempt at spelling German word mine)
split a 8-10 diameter fireplace log, balance each piece on the round side,
about 8 ft apart. a player stands on each log, each holding the end of a rope
about 16 ft long. At the signal, they each haul in as much rope as they can,
until it is taught. Then, they each try to NOT be the one to fall off while
attempting to get their enemies portion of the rope into their own hands.
Its's addictive, with losers begging for best 2 outta 3, ok best 3 outta 5
etc.
(mundane warning: players should weare shoes please so as to avoid big
gigantic splinters. Or, the hausen maker should smoothe the split side)
If you need it, I will ask our game guy about documentation.
bonne
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 09:27:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [Sca-cooks] hurley
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
--- pandoraf at verizon.net wrote:
> same thing goes for the related sport of shinty
> (camanachd or iomain in Scottish Gaelic) --
> but, oh boy, is it loads of fun!
>
as an offshoot of Seattle's Scottish Gaelic
> community, there was a small group playing
> shinty last summer - maybe I'll try to get it
> going again with some SCA participation too...
In the OED, the earlist reference to Shinty is
1771.
Huette
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 10:03:58 -0700
From: <pandoraf at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Re: [Sca-cooks] hurley
To: Cook within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
> In the OED, the earlist reference to Shinty is
> 1771.
>
> Huette
ah, yes -- shinty being the English name for the Gaelic sport of
camanachd, also calle iomain, which is ancient (I don't have notes in
front of me on specifics, but there are effigies and other medieval art
showing shinty sticks).
OFC -- I'm envisioning shinty sticks made out of bread, and shinty
balls of ... cheese, maybe. would make for an interesting variation on
food fight -- table shinty!
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 10:11:22 -0700
From: Susan Fox-Davis <selene at earhlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] hurley
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Aeduin and Mobi watched the Western hurlers with much interst, and
might try to instigate a game down south. I'm researching it now.
The differences seem to be:
Hurley is Irish, Shinty is Scots
Hurley is played on the ground, in the air, anywhere; Shinty is mainly
on the ground [and the stick is longer - Scot brag!]
Irish and Scots duke it out
http://sport.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=410&;id=1155452003
Hurley reference in the Tain Bo Cualgne
http://www.ucc.ie/celt/published/T301035/text004.html
Old Hurley sticks and balls
http://www.birthplaceofhockey.com/volution/ev-equip-pics/pic-hurley-
stk-old.html
Hurley equipment, include foam children's set
http://www.nurisport.fsnet.co.uk/Hurleys.htm
encyclopedia article on Hurley
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Hurley
National shinty org in Scotland http://shinty.com/
Selene C.
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 11:42:34 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Hurling OT was Onagers
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
While the game is sometimes referred to as hurley, the correct term is
hurling. The hurley (caman) is the stick used in the game.
The game is fairly rough and tumble but there were and are rules, often
honored in the breach as in hockey and lacrosse. The modern rules (without
getting into the specifics of positional play) are:
1.. A player can run a maximum of four steps with the sliotar (ball) in
his/her hand.
2.. A player may take as many steps as he/she wishes while carrying the
sliotar on the boss of the hurley.
3.. A player may take the sliotar into his/her hand up to two times while
travelling in possesion.
4.. The sliotar may not be thrown; the correct hand-pass technique must be
used.
5.. The sliotar may not be picked directly from the ground; the roll-lift
or the jab-lift must be used.
6.. A player who is in possesion may not score with his/her hand.
7.. If the sliotar is in flight, a player may score by striking the ball
with his/her hand.
8.. Three defenders may stand on the goal-line when a penalty is being taken.
9.. A free-puc is awarded when a defender strikes the ball over his/her
own endline.
10.. Three points are equal to one goal.
Bear
From: "sclark55 at rogers.com" <sclark55 at rogers.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Activities for a small shire
Date: 3 Apr 2005 14:56:26 -0700
> > Maybe someone here can pipe up with an authoritative history and how
> > the SCA picked it up. (I've played a non-armored touch version.)
http://www.bootsnall.com/cgi-bin/gt/travelstories/me/aug01buzkashi.shtml
> Here's a basic explanation on how the original game works, and it's name,
> buzkashi or bozkashi. How SCA took it up and modified it, I don't know.
As far as I know, SCA Bouzhkashi was devised by Duke Finvarr de Taahe
and Baron Torbin of Amberhall sometime in the late 70s-early 80s. You
can read an article about it written by Finvarr in TI #102, from 1992.
Incidentally, if you read the article, you'll find out about Murphy,
the original bouzhkashi sheep. Murphy is now retired, but is the
official Canton of Eoforwic mascot. He currently resides in my
basement.
Nicolaa
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 10:29:08 +1000
From: Braddon Giles <braddongiles at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] Totally frivolous discussion topic
To: "The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list"
<lochac at lochac.sca.org>
2009/11/23 Lenehan <lenehan at our.net.au>:
<<< ... we used to play bocce...
I must re-introduce the game! I'm sure we can find the cannon balls. I
wonder what was really used in period? You can buy aluminium bocce sets that
are light enough for indoor games, from ordinary sports supply stores here
in Tasmania.
Maddie >>>
We play bocce on a semi regular basis in the North. It is a lovely
park game, and the more stupid the surface is the more fun the game
gets. We use the modern aluminium balls, and wink.
If you find the bright aluminium grates on your period sensibilities
then you can turn wood into balls. Use a dense hardwood, and then soak
the suckers in a vegetable oil, like linseed oil. That makes them
heavier and tougher. Don't use a light wood like pine unless you want
the balls smashed and chipped. It is going to happen anyway, but you
don't want it to happen first time out.
If I had my choice I would make the balls from box root, which was the
wood of choice for golf balls in period, but there isn't much of that
around at a low price.
Good gaming!
Giles.
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 10:41:37 +1000
From: Braddon Giles <braddongiles at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] Bocce and bowling
To: "The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list"
<lochac at lochac.sca.org>
Sadly cricket isn't period. Croquet is nearly period. Shinty (which is
field hockey with attitude) is as period as dirt. Golf is right in -
Stefan, do you have any articles on golf? I have one ready to go.
Polo has an ancient heritage, and many of the equestrian cultures play
similar games. The mongols have a mounted game where the objective is
a sheep, and the side that has *most* of the sheep at the end is the
winner, now that is a game!
Giles.
2009/11/24 Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>:
<<< Is cricket period? I'd love to have an article on this if someone would be
interested in writing one. Of course, it might help to explain the games and
the rules to those such as most Americans who have never seen the game.
What about polo?
Thanks,
Stefan >>>
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:44:28 +1100
From: "Cian Gillebhrath" <mniemann at labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] Bocce and bowling
To: "The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list"
<lochac at lochac.sca.org>
<<< Is cricket period? I'd love to have an article on this if someone
would be interested in writing one. Of course, it might help to
explain the game and the rules to those such as most Americans who
have never seen the game. >>>
Technically yes, but not with a well developed set of rules
The earliest direct reference to it in text is (to quote the Oxford
Dictionary):
1598 Guild Merchant Bk. (MS. in Guildford Borough Records), John Denwick
of Guldeford..one of the Queenes Majesties Coroners of the County of
Surrey being of the age of fyfty and nyne yeares or there aboute..saith
upon his oath that hee hath known the parcell of land..for the space of
Fyfty years and more, and..saith that hee being a schollar in the Free
schoole of Guldeford, hee and several of his fellowes did runne and play
there at Creckett and other plaies. [Cf. History of Guildford (1801) 203.]
See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_cricket_to_1725, if you
can trust Wikipedia.
So it is within the SCA period but little is known of rules within the
period. More specific details are out of period.
And as for beach cricket, it is an Aussie past-time like backyard cricket.
It is not a serious variation. There was a TV series of matches recently
starring retired cricketers, but even that was just a lark.
Cian
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 18:44:59 -0800
From: Ian Whitchurch <ian.whitchurch at gmail.com>
Subject: [Lochac] Cricket is period
To: "The Shambles, the SCA Lochac mailing list" <lochac at sca.org.au>
To quote John Skelton, Henry VIII of England's Poet Laureate, when he
was having a bit of a whinge about Flemish weavers in his The Image of
Ipocrisie
"O lorde of Ipocrites
Nowe shut vpp your wickettes
And clape to your clickettes!
A! Farewell, kings of crekettes!,"
Also, see this picture, dated at 1344. It's a bat, and a ball, and
some clerical types doing things that I'm sure Church reformers. would
disapprove of
http://slumberland.org/sca/articles/stoolball.html
This article is now a little dated ...
http://www.sca.org.au/laurels/cricket.htm ... but it's by two old
Lochacers, so you should read it.
So, basically, get yourself some sort of bat, and a ball, and use the
bat to stop the ball going through the gate :)
Anton de Stoc
At Rowany
XXIIII Novembre g+s
ate: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 23:14:15 +1100
From: Steve Roylance <roylance at corplink.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] Bocce and bowling
To: The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list <lochac at lochac.sca.org>
Cricket is a period game, however, what is played today looks as much
like a game period cricket as the FA Cup final does to a game of period
football. There is a continuous history of the game with tweaks to the
rules and equipment from C13c to the present.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_cricket refers to clear
descriptions of games in C16.
Thorfinn
Braddon Giles wrote:
<<< Sadly cricket isn't period. Croquet is nearly period. Shinty (which is
field hockey with attitude) is as period as dirt. Golf is right in -
Giles. >>>
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 12:02:38 +1200
From: Bob Bain <bob.bain at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] foteball (in other words total digression)
To: <lochac at lochac.sca.org>
<<< A number of years ago, for a couple of months, hurley became a fad in
my barony. The individual pushing it moved away, but I wonder if the
baron would have tried to prohibit it from being played. Not to get
people to practice archery instead, but because in those few months we
lost more armored combatants to injuries than we had lost in years of
armored combat! The homemade sticks didn't last very long at all. The
imported sticks lasted a little bit longer but still got broken quickly.
Stefan >>>
Oiling your hurley with a good quality boiled linseed oil will do wonders to help prolong their lives. I had one very light irish ash stick that lasted five years or so but found on average I'd get through them at about the same rate as I would rattan swords for my SCA combat.
Callum
From: Anne <kosmikbubbles at gmail.com>
Subject: [tri-temp] interesting sport.
Date: September 17, 2010 7:32:22 PM CDT
To: trimaris-temp at yahoogroups.com, brighthills at yahoogroups.com
ah, ...this sport traces it's roots back to the 1100's... first video is
the best.
http://www.wired.com/playbook/2010/08/mallakhamb-extreme-gymnastics/
"Enter mallakhamb, which has been called “the mother sport of ancient India.” In fixed mallakhamb, guys dressed only in an orange, Speedo-type covering will rub their hands with rosin and jump from a mat onto a roughly 9-foot-high pole, usually made out of teak which they pray is planted firmly into the ground. From there, the gymnast performs some 90 seconds of the most athletic – and cringe-worthy – maneuvers ever captured on video."
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2014 06:47:05 +1100
From: Zebee Johnstone <zebeej at gmail.com>
To: "The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list"
<lochac at lochac.sca.org>
Subject: [Lochac] balls
Old balls even.
http://erikkwakkel.tumblr.com/post/75394761708/500-year-old-game-balls-very-few-people-will-read
A 1540s football and a 1520s tennis ball.
Probably just about time to make them before Festival!
Might be a problem to find enough shedding dogs to get dog hair to
stuff the tennis ball with though...
Silfren
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2014 16:09:53 +1300
From: "katherine kerr" <vicki at webcentre.co.nz>
To: lochac at lochac.sca.org
Subject: [Lochac] dog hair balls
<< http://erikkwakkel.tumblr.com/post/75394761708/500-year-old-game-balls-very-few-people-will-read
A 1540s football and a 1520s tennis ball. >>
I've seen other examples of footballs very similar -- so hard these days to get English heads for the truly traditional Jeddart foo'ball...
<<< Might be a problem to find enough shedding dogs to get dog hair to
stuff the tennis ball with though? >>>
Darn, just took the dog to the groomer and didn't think to ask for the hair back....(she's a non-smelling wet dog too!).
I know the American football ball is supposed to be, or was, made
out of pigskin, but that doesn't necessarily say that period balls
were.
The Museum of London caption says:
A ball for 'real' or 'royal' tennis, fashioned from leather with a stuffing of compacted dog's hair. The leather has been cut into quarters and the segments are stitched together along the seams. Most of the stitching has come apart and there a several holes in the leather.
Katherine
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2014 14:19:29 +1100
From: Zebee Johnstone <zebeej at gmail.com>
To: "The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list"
<lochac at lochac.sca.org>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] balls
On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Stefan li Rous
<StefanliRous at austin.rr.com> wrote:
<<< Neither of the sites given by this article detail what the outside of these balls was made of. :-( >>>
There's a caption for the football which might not have come up on your screen:
"Made from Cow hide with a Pigs bladder used to inflate the ball. Half
the size of a modern football."
Silfren
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2014 14:41:03 +1100
From: Rebecca Lucas <rebe.lucas at gmail.com>
To: lochac at lochac.sca.org
Subject: Re: [Lochac] Balls
Huh, in:
Colin Richmond. 2009. "1509" _Common Knowledge_ Volume 15, Number 3: 336-339
doi: 10.1215/0961754X-2009-015
The answer is "Dog leather with a core of packed hair: Museum of London A23502"
This PDF gives the source for it as "Starkey" which would be
Starkey, D. (Ed), Henry VIII - A European Court in England, Toucan, London 1991
http://leatherworkingreverend.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/10-chapter-6-travel-goods-and-campware.pdf
Which, given modern sensibilities, may explain why the MoL doesn't
mention that on their website.
~ffride
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2014 14:59:47 +1100
From: Zebee Johnstone <zebeej at gmail.com>
To: "The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list"
<lochac at lochac.sca.org>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] Balls
On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 2:41 PM, Rebecca Lucas <rebe.lucas at gmail.com> wrote:
<<< Huh, in:
Colin Richmond. 2009. "1509" _Common Knowledge_ Volume 15, Number 3: 336-339
doi: 10.1215/0961754X-2009-015
The answer is "Dog leather with a core of packed hair: Museum of London A23502" >>>
So.. I wonder what the closest to dogskin is?
I seem to recall mention in older books of 'dogskin gloves' but I
can't remember if they were supposed to be very supple or very tough.
Given it's being banged about I would suspect "tough for its weight"
would be the key in which case I suggest kangaroo might be worth
trying as a substitute. Or maybe deer?
Silfren
<the end>