n-Lat-mottoes-msg - 3/25/11
non-Latin mottoes.
NOTE: See also the files: mottoes1-msg, mottoes2-msg, banners-msg, Ital-Phrases-art, Latin-msg, languages-msg, literacy-msg.
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Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: James Pratt <cathal at mindspring.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Mottos: Must they be latin?
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 12:27:56 GMT
On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 06:45:08 -0500, Cynthia Virtue
<cvirtue at thibault.org> wrote:
>I see so many requests for latin translations -- surely mottos don't
>have to be in latin to be historically valid?
>
>cv
If such is the case, then King John of Bohemia, Edward the
Black Prince and all of the subsequent Princes of Wales who used the
motto: "Ich Dien" obviously missed the memo. Likewise the holders of
the Order of the Garter with their: "Honi soit qui mal y pense" must
really feel aggrieved for their social lapse.
Latin was the more commonly understood language across
national boundaries; hence its common use for a motto is reasonable in
that utility. It was also a language in which, if one sought the use
of cant or a memorial, the meaning would be readily discernable to the
generally educated or the member of a social caste equal or one
aspiring to that of the bearer. The modern jingo-isms of trademarks
and their quest for easy recognition follow essentially the same path.
Cathal
(whose motto is: Na sir 's na seachain an cath.)
From: "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott at csuohio.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Mottos: Must they be latin?
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 10:29:29 -0500
On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 12:27:56 GMT James Pratt
<cathal at mindspring.com> wrote in rec.org.sca:
> On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 06:45:08 -0500, Cynthia Virtue
> <cvirtue at thibault.org> wrote:
>>I see so many requests for latin translations -- surely mottos don't
>>have to be in latin to be historically valid?
> If such is the case, then King John of Bohemia, Edward the
> Black Prince and all of the subsequent Princes of Wales who used the
> motto: "Ich Dien" obviously missed the memo. Likewise the holders of
> the Order of the Garter with their: "Honi soit qui mal y pense" must
> really feel aggrieved for their social lapse.
To which I will add: 'Fais ce que dois advienne que
pourra!', used by a score or so of European families; 'A
tout venant, beau jeu', used by the house of Beaujeu; 'Bois
ton sang, Beaumanoir, ta soif passera', used by the
Beaumanoirs; 'Moult me tarde', used by Philippe le Hardi;
'Je le tiens', used by Jean sans Peur; 'Aultre n'auray',
used by Philippe le Bon; 'Je l'ay emprins', used by Charles
le Téméraire; and 'Dieu aide au premier baron chrétien!',
used by Anne de Montmorency, all given by Michel Pastoureau
in his Traité d'Héraldique.
In England Woodcock & Robinson, The Oxford Guide to
Heraldry, mention the motto 'Dieu Veulant Je Feray' in a
1552/3 grant to William Bromefeyld.
And that's not even mentioning war-cries.
[...]
Brian
From: "Christophe Bachmann" <Chris_CII at compuserve.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Mottos: Must they be latin?
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 20:18:46 +0100
Organization: Wanadoo, l'internet avec France Telecom
"Brian M. Scott" <b.scott at csuohio.edu> said:
I thought the translations would interest some people :
Ich Dien : I serve
Honi soit qui mal y pense : evil be to him who evil thinks
Fais ce que dois advienne que pourra! : Do what you must, whatever happens
!
A tout venant, beau jeu : For all comers, fair play (Translated litteraly,
I don't figure the meaning)
Bois ton sang, Beaumanoir, ta soif passera : Drink your blood, Beaumanoir,
your thirst will abate
Moult me tarde : I am most anxious
Je le tiens : I hold it
Aultre n'auray : I will have no other
Je l'ay emprins : (don't know sorry)
Dieu aide au premier baron chrétien! : God help the first christian baron !
Dieu Veulant Je Feray : God willing, I'll do
--
Guiraud Belissen, Château du Ciel, Drachenwald
Chris CII, Rennes, France
From: Steve Mesnick <steffan at pobox.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Mottos: Must they be latin?
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 00:53:43 -0500
Cynthia Virtue wrote:
> I see so many requests for latin translations -- surely mottos don't
> have to be in latin to be historically valid?
Of course not. Fairbarn's Crests lists scads of mottoes, a large
number in Latin, but many also in English, French, German, Greek,
Italian, Gaelic, and a number of other languages. My own warcry is
Gwrandewch a' Rheswm, Welsh for "Listen to Reason".
I think those looking for languages other than Latin just look
elsewhere for a translation; it's easier to find a native speaker
of French than of Latin in one's neighborhood %^).
Steffan ap Kennydd
From: Sandy Straubhaar <orchzis at hotmail.com>
Date: February 27, 2006 8:59:23 PM CST
To: bryn-gwlad at ansteorra.org
Subject: [Bryn-gwlad] RE: Mottos
Hmmm -- I've never had a motto. Doesn't seem really Nordic, the motto on a little floating scroll and all. But then, neither do Coats of Arms. Anachronisms R Us. So I started thinking about possibilities.
The following are all cool for different reasons; they have lots of different tones (pessimistic and less pessimistic, maybe; that seems Nordic enough to me). Anybody out there have a favorite that I maybe should oughta settle on?
Medhalsnotr skyli manna hverr. (Hçvamçl 54 & 55)
(Each person should be middle-wise [i.e., not too wise nor too stupid])
Fimbulfambi heitir sç er fçtt kann segja. (Hçvamçl 103)
(They call him a fool who can't say much)
Ek drykk of gat ins d1⁄2yra mjadhar. (Hçvamçl 140)
(I got me a drink of the costly mead [=the mead of poetic inspiration])
Illr er dùmr norna. (HlÜdhskvidha, last line)
(Ill is the Doom of the Norns) (=Life's a b***ch)
Sigr£nar skaltu kunna. (SigrdrÆfumçl 6)
(Victory-runes shalt thou know)
Mçlr£nar skaltu kunna. (SigrdrÆfumçl 12)
(Runes of language shalt thou know)
Fun thinking about anyway.
brynhildr
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