Period food of Eastern Europe. Recipe sources. References.
NOTE: See also the files: East-Eur-msg, fd-Hungary-msg, fd-Poland-msg, fd-Russia-msg, fd-Greece-msg, Hungary-msg, Poland-msg, Gypsies-msg.
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NOTICE -
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.
Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).
Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
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Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 14:11:31 EST
From: Varju at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Re: eastern European fare
LrdRas at aol.com writes:
<< Actually it's not at all clear whether there is documentation or not.
Historically these countries were heavily influenced by al-Islam which is a
continuing influence behind the problems in this region in the Current
Middle Ages. I would be hesitant to say rhat their is no documentation.>>
I first want to start by saying to Ras that I am not disputing this very true
statement, I am only trying to narrow it down to avoid any confusion.
Heaven knows the history of the region is complicated enough without any help.
:->
The influence of the middle and near east, in the form of the Ottoman Turks,
was the strongest in the Balkans (Albania, Macedonia, Serbia, Bosnia, and
Croatia) as well as Romania because they came under Turkish rule relatively
early. In contrast Hungary did not come under Turkish rule until relatively
late (after the battle of Mohacs in 1527) so the influence on cuisine, as was
pointed out to me here probably did not occur until outside our period. The
modern Czech Republic (Bohemia and Moravia) and Poland were never invaded by
the Ottoman Turks so they never had that type of influence. Slovakia, while
it was a part of the medieval kingdom of Hungary was not a part that was
conquered by the Turks so that influence would be lacking there also.
As I mentioned before, I know for sure that there are collections of period
recipes that are in Hungary. The question is not of access but of language,
because anyone can go to the Szechenyi library and request them, they just are
not in English and have never been fully translated. (George Lang includes
several translated recipes from two manuscripts in _Cuisine of Hungary_) I
believe that will hold true of most of the states of Eastern Europe, that the
documents are there and not been translated, not through any political reason,
just that it has not been done. (The states that came out of the former
Yugoslavia may be an exception, there the documents may have been destroyed
during the continued conflict.) I think it is one area where national
sentiment may have been useful, in that these documents would have been
saved because they represented a piece of the national identity.
Noemi
Windkeep,
Outlands
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 14:11:25 EST
From: Varju at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Re: eastern European fare
chickengoddess at mindspring.com writes:
<< Stew cultures are those whose primary method of
preparing food was as a stew, and whose primary method of service of these
stews was that the family or other grouping ate from a communal pot. >>
At least for Hungary this is a bit of a stretch. There are some period
descriptions of what the Magyars ate while they were raiding, which was
usually a stew of some sort eaten out of a communal pot, but that was
traveling food, not what you would eat every day. I'm also not sure how
going from anthropological slant would help much, I would personally find an
archeological slant more helpful since it would look at the actual cooking
utensils and related items.
And there are some documentably period recipes for Hungary, they just aren't
in English, which I think is probably true of all parts of Eastern Europe.
Noemi
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 02:46:18 EST
From: Varju at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Re: eastern European fare
ddfr at best.com writes:
<< Actually, I believe a few, late period Hungarian recipes were published,
in English, in a book on Hungarian cooking. >>
Yep. . .silly me. . .there are a few in _Cuisine of Hungary _ by George
Lang.
Noemi
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 13:08:19 EST
From: Varju at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Re: eastern European fare
ddfr at best.com writes:
<< Also, there is supposed to be a Hungarian manuscript c. 1400, although I
have no idea if it has ever been published, and am pretty sure it has not
been translated. >>
Again it gets mention in _Cuisine of Hungary_ and George Lang provides a
translation of the Savanyu Vetrece (Sour Vetrece), which I'm still working
on the redaction for.
Noemi
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 22:38:09 -0800
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
From: david friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] An Early Romanian Cookbook
An eastern European acquaintance recently sent me a copy of an early
Romanian cookbook. As best I can figure out, with the help of a
friend who knows some Romanian, it probably dates from the end of the
17th century. That's pretty late but, given how little we have from
eastern Europe, still interesting.
I have webbed a few pages of it as part of my project to find
translators for previously untranslated cookbooks. They are at:
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Medieval/For_Translation/O_Lume/O_Lume_Intr_O_Carte_de_Bucate
--
David Friedman
Professor of Law
Santa Clara University
ddfr at best.com
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 14:07:04 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Pixel, Goddess and Queen" <pixel at hundred-acre-wood.com>
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Romanian period recipes
This collection, which I found last night while researching 12th Night,
has some articles that might be useful. I didn't pay a huge whole lot of
attention, but there was a lot of stuff on Eastern Europe (which is why I
didn't pay a whole lot of attention to it) and I distinctly remember
Moldavia showing up in a title. So it may or may not be helpful.
Food in change : eating habits from the Middle Ages to the present
day / edited by Alexander Fenton and Eszter Kisb=E1n.
Published: Edinburgh : John Donald Publishers in association with the
National Museums of Scotland ; Atlantic Highlands, N.J. : Distribution by
Humanities Press, c1986.
Description: viii, 166 p. : ill. ; 24 cm.
Contributors: Fenton, Alexander. Kisb=E1n, Eszter.
International Conference on Ethnological Food Research 5th (1983 :
M=E1traf=FCred, Hungary)
Notes: "Essays based on contribution to the Fifth International Conference
on Ethnological Food Research, organised by the Institute of Ethnology of
the Hungarian Academy of Sciences, at M=E1traf=FCred ... Hungary, in October
1983"--Introd.
Includes bibliographies.
ISBN 0859761452
Margaret
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 16:39:00 -0400
From: johnna holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Romanian period recipes
I own this and I can find it!!!
And no it's not going to solve your problems.
The Romanian article is 18th and early 19th centuries.
Johnna Holloway Johnnae
"Pixel, Goddess and Queen" wrote:> snipped
> This collection, which I found last night while researching 12th Night,
> has some articles that might be useful. ... I distinctly remember
> Moldavia showing up in a title. So it may or may not be helpful.>
> Food in change : eating habits from the Middle Ages to the present
> day / edited by Alexander Fenton and Eszter Kisb=E1n.
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:36:02 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] FW: paprika and spikenard
To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Cc: "'Charles.Perry at latimes.com'" <Charles.Perry at latimes.com>
While most secondary sources credit the Turks with bringing paprika peppers
to Hungary, the possibility that they came through the Croatian spice
traders can't be ruled out. The Turkish claim is based mostly on the timing
of the incursions of the 1520's and the presumption that peppers came to the
Ottomans from Spain via the Venetians then were brought into Central Europe
by Ottoman troops.
The Ragusans were active competitors with the Venetians during the 15th and
16th Centuries. Historically, the area was ruled by Hungary from the 12th
to the 16th Century when it came under Ottoman control. Dubrovnik proper
was controlled by the Venetians from 1205 to 1358, when it was ceded to
Hungary. There is a connection to Spain in that some of the spice merchants
were Jewish and took in refugees from the Marrano persecutions in Spain.
There is a new book, that I am looking forward to reading, from the Central
European University Press, The Long Journey of Gracia Mendes, which ties to
all of these subjects during 1510 to 1569. The author is Marianna D.
Birnbaum, Professor Emeritus from, wonder of wonders, UCLA.
I am interested in reading the thesis and I hope Mr. Perry would be so kind
as to provide a bibliographic citation that can be used to find copies.
As a small point for anyone chasing references to Ragusa, there are two
Ragusas. One is Dubrovnik, the other is a town in Sicily.
Bear
>>>>>
I just received this by email and thought some of you might
be interested as we have discussed both of these items here before.
I am in fact honored to have gotten this email, for if my
guess is correct, this is the same Charles Perry and his book
which have been previously mentioned on this list.
Perhaps some of you studying eastern Europe or the Balkans
might want to check out this thesis. Bear?
Stefan
-----Original Message-----
From: Perry, Charles [mailto:Charles.Perry at latimes.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 5:54 PM
To: Mark.S Harris
Subject: paprika and spikenard
I just came across a collection of historical spice
threads collected by you. I had two observations to
contribute, didn't know where else to send them.
Paprika: -ika is a Slavic suffix used on plant names;
paprika means "pepper plant." It was not introduced to
Hungary by the Turks but by Croatian merchants from Ragusa
(now Dubrovnik). There is a thesis on file at UCLA on this
subject, complete with maps of the spice routes through the Balkans.
Spikenard: It has a musky, resinous scent, and its
commonest use throughout history has been as a hair tonic or
perfume (it is still probably used for that purpose -- I
suspect its presence in Vitalis), but occasionally it has
flavored foods and beverages. My translation of the
14th-century Arabic cookbook "Kitab Wasf al-At'ima
al-Mu'tada" (in "Medieval Arab Cookery," Prospect Books,
2001) gives some recipes that call for it. At present,
spikenard is available at markets that sell Iranian food
products. It comes in little cellophane packages -- looking
like a tangle of brown wires -- under the name "valerian." In
Perso-Arab script, however, the packages call it by its
Arabic name, "sunbul al-tib," "fragrant spikenard."
<<<<
<the end>