calligraphy-msg - 2/5/08
Inks, papers, calligraphic styles.
NOTE: See also the files: callig-suppl-msg, inks-msg, parchment-msg, paper-msg, quills-msg, sealing-wax-msg, alphabets-msg, early-books-msg, wax-tablets-msg.
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NOTICE -
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
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Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: DICKSNR%QUCDN.BITNET at MITVMA.MIT.EDU ("Ross M. Dickson")
Date: 17 Nov 89 05:06:00 GMT
Organization: Society for Creative Anachronism
Greetings once again from Sarra Graeham, who evidently finds posting to
the Rialto *much* more fun than working on scrolls . . . (sigh)
Most of the books recommended so far are lovely picture books that give
many good ideas about what to do, but say very little about how to do
it. If I were to get someone started on calligraphy with books, these
would be my choices:
Drogin, Marc. _Medieval Calligraphy: Its History and Technique_, Allanheld
and Schram, Montclair, 1980.
Available in most major university libraries, and still in print, this is
the *best* book for our purposes in existence. Gives step-by-step instruc-
tions for each hand so simple a rank novice can follow it, and is chock full
of pictures of actual manuscripts. Accept no substitutes.
Bain, George. _Celtic Art: The Methods of Construction_, Dover Publications
Inc., New York, 19??.
Gives wonderfully clear instructions about how knotwork and all the other
goodies in Celtic art is done. Ignore his instructions on how to do Celtic
calligraphy, though, and use Drogin instead.
Angel, Marie. _Painting for Calligraphers_, ?? (Sorry, don't own the book)
Although this is a modern book, it has some good instructions about painting
technique, tools, media, etc., all with the needs of a calligrapher in mind.
Thompson, Daniel V. _The Materials and Techniques of Medieval Painting_,
Dover Publications Inc., New York, 1956. ISBN 0-486-20327-1
Not a book for the rank beginner, but an excellent research work on how
exactly the medievals went about painting. The author has done a lot of
research on the actual chemistry of medieval art.
Hope this helps.
Sarra Graeham, Ealdormere Signet | Heather Fraser
Canton of Greyfells, Midrealm | Kingston, Ontario, CANADA
From: joshua at paul.rutgers.edu (Joshua Mittleman)
Date: 17 Nov 89 18:02:06 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
hello there! Long time no post. Some new info on scribe sources for
you:
1) George Braziller publishers has moved. I'll post the new address
on monday. They are now on Madison Ave. in NY city.
2) Marc Drogin's book _Medieval Calligraphy..._ is out of print, but
is due BACK IN PRINT as of November 17 by Dover books in paperback.
Your local bookstore should be able to order it in 1 week. I'll post
their address (they have SUPER catalogs) monday as well.
From: norteman at discvr.enet.dec.com ("My brain is hanging upside-down.")
Date: 22 Nov 89 14:45:18 GMT
Organization: Society for Creative Anachronism
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Greetings, all, from Ariel.
Thanks to Fionnghuala (and Rayah) for the excellent list of sources for
scribes.
I plan to send for everything that I don't already get!
Here's the address of another bookshop I often visit. Their main business is
in books about books and collectors' editions of certain authors, but their
interests have branched out into bookbinding, calligraphy and illumination,
and the making of books before printing.
The Colophon Bookshop
(Robert and Christine Liska, props.)
117 Water Street
Exeter, NH 03833
Write for their book lists, which come out bimonthly (or more often,
sometimes).
Most of what they sell won't be of interest to the mediaeval scribe, but I've
found some real treasures through them.
William: Thanks for the description of the half-hour scroll. My "quickies"
usually take two hours or more, but I still want to make sure that even those
will survive the ravages of time. I never use marker for anything -- I've seen
ten-year-old scrolls done with markers (or signed in marker) in which the ink
has all but disappeared.
The best SCA publication I've ever seen on scribal stuff is Crossed Quills,
More [Y,n]?
the Midrealm calligraphers' newsletter. Does anyone from the Midrealm
(Sarra?)
have Beryl de Folo's address handy and can post it to this forum? Anyway, I
recommend this newsletter VERY highly for the wealth of useful information
it contains: facsimiles of historical hands, sample layouts in different
styles, illumination techniques and samples... scribes everywhere should find
it fascinating. Best of all, you can barter photocopies or slides of your
work for issues!
Enough from this ink-stained wretch.
--Ariel of Caer Myrddin (Karen J. Norteman)
Shire of Malagentia (Portland, Maine)
East Kingdom
<norteman%discvr.dec at decwrl.dec.com>
The most recent address I have for FoLump Enterprises is: 805 East Green #1,
Urbana IL 61801. It's about six years old, so it may or may not work.
From: norteman at discvr.enet.dec.com (Casting runes on the rooftops)
Date: 16 Jan 90 20:04:31 GMT
Organization: Society for Creative Anachronism
Greetings, all, from Ariel.
Marc Drogin's book Mediaeval Calligraphy: Its History and Technique has just
hit the bookshelves again, after a long absence. This time it's been
reprinted
by Dover Books.
You can order it by mail if it's not at your friendly local bookstore. Price
is $10.95, order number 0-486-26142-5. The publisher is:
Dover Publications, Inc.
31 East 2nd Street
Mineola, NY 11501
Yo Carolingians! Barilleri Books, the new bookstore in Harvard Square, has a
whole bunch of copies. They're 10% off, too.
For those of you not familiar with Drogin's book, this is a must-have. Drogin
discusses the history of mediaeval calligraphy from AD 400 till the end of
the 15th century, "after which that instrument of the Devil, the printing
press,
was invented and changed the course of calligraphic history" (quote his).
Drogin also talks about the alphabets, the materials used, the scribes them-
selves, and even the patron demon of calligraphy, Titivullus. There are lots
of writing samples, actual bits of documents to look at, and (of course) a
heavy dose of Drogin's humour.
Go out and get this book, or get the acquisitions librarian or your local
Guild head to order it. Trust me -- this is well worth having.
--Ariel of Caer Myrddin (Karen J. Norteman)
Shire of Malagentia (Portland, Maine)
East Kingdom
<norteman%discvr.dec at decwrl.dec.com>
From: aiden at NCoast.ORG (Steven Otlowski)
Date: 9 Apr 91 23:35:14 GMT
Organization: North Coast Public Access Un*x (ncoast)
Problems with ink bleeding can also be helped by using Gum Sandarac. It
can be mail ordered from a number of calligraphy shops. It is a tree gum
resin. If finely powdered and dusted onto the paper it helps prevent
bleeding. It is also particularly usefull if you have made a correction
and injured the original "sizing" on the paper.
Aiden Elfeadur -
From: amanda at visix.com (Amanda Walker)
Date: 23 Jul 91 15:06:09 GMT
Organization: Visix Software Inc., Reston, VA
DICKSNR at qucdn.queensu.ca ("Ross M. Dickson") writes:
>I hope m'lady will find this a
>happy addition rather than an offensive contradiction,
Just so, m'lord :).
>Goose quills were used, and I don't believe any of the treatments you
>describe were performed -- in particular the heat treatment. The quill
>was carefully cut into the appropriate shape using an Exacto knife.
If the quill is fairly large (and thus has relatively thick walls), the
heat treatment is less necessary. It's mainly a way of improving the
likely results for many quills.
>Her observation was that the flexibility of the quill and the smoothness
>of the parchment made the quality of the lines obtained *immensely*
>superior to anything she could do with a steel nib on paper.
Indeed. Writing with a quill on vellum or parchment is nothing at all
like writing with a steel pen on paper. Utter bliss...
>She would be delighted to hear of other sources dealing with quill-cutting.
I believe that Johnston covered it in "Writing, Illuminating, and Lettering."
I taught myself from The Calligrapher's Handbook (put out by the the
Society of Scribes & Illuminators in England, and I believe out of print).
>Sarra, however, found no advantage whatsoever to cutting a slit in the
>goose quill pen, and indeed it was just a good way to ruin the tip.
The slit is *very* tricky to get right, but it can help a lot in evening
out the ink flow. This is where heat treating helps, as it makes the
quill less likely to splinter when a slit is cut.
>She suspects that the slit-cutting was not described simply because it
>wasn't done.
My sources are at home, but I believe that it was done, albeit not
universally.
I am, however, happy to defer to greater expertise--the first way I tried
worked fine, so I've stuck with it. I know Master Aiden has done quite
a bit with quills (and found a source for quill knives), and might be
able to contribute some experience as well.
--
Arwen <amanda at visix.com>
Scribe at Small
From: cat at fgssu1.sinet.slb.COM (Insignificant Pondscum)
Date: 24 Jul 91 17:07:23 GMT
To quote Amanda:
"I taught myself from The Calligrapher's Handbook (put out by the Society
of Scribes and Illuminators in England, and I believe out of print)."
If you were referring to the blue covered Calligrapher's Handbook which
is editted by Heather Child, then it is still in print. If you can't
find it, you can mail order it from Amsterdam Art on University in
Berkeley CA - they always have it in stock. If someone out there is
doing scribal stuff, I recommend this book highly. It's got really good
stuff in it, like recipes for gum ammoniac, gesso sotile, parchement and
vellum prep, pigments-to-paints, and other gems. In my not so humble
opinion, it's a must-have for anyone of scribal pretensions. (For people
who I have taught scribal stuff to, I usually give them a copy if they
look at all serious about doing scrolls). The mythical Mistress Aldith
Anharad St. George says: "buy this book!"
Tux
************************************************************************
* Meisterin Therasia von Tux, OP * "Imitation is the surest *
* cat at fgssu1.sinet.slb.com * indication of butt sucking" *
* * - the mythical Mistress Aldith *
* * Anharad St. George *
************************************************************************
From: bhw at aifh.ed.ac.uk (Barbara H. Webb (Phd 89))
Date: 24 Jul 91 13:38:49 GMT
Organization: Dept AI, Edinburgh University, Scotland
I'm afraid I missed the first posting (Arwen's) about quills (if someone
would mail me a copy I would be grateful). But the second post didn't
tally at all with my experience with quills so I thought I would add
some comments. I assume the basic shaping methods have been covered
already.
I have been cutting and using quills for about two years now and I find
the vast superiority of the resulting calligraphy makes them well worth
the effort. Unfortunately I still can't cut a perfect quill every time,
but the average is improving.
I use goose feathers, and I find only the larger ones are stiff enough
to be useful. I treat them by soaking in vinegar overnight and then
heating them by putting them in hot sand (heated in the oven) and this
definitely helps by making them stiffer (a quick method that gives
reasonably results is to hold them carefully over a flame for a few
moments, but this sometime results in a smell of burning feathers!).
Turkey feathers seem to be okay as well (treat same way).
I use a curved scalpel blade (easy to get at art shops) to cut the nib
shape, and the blade from a safety razor to cut the slit, then the
scalpel blade to do the essential final shaping - a diagonal shaving of
the top of the tip (gives incredibly fine lines) and a sharp very
straight cut across the top (this is one I haven't yet mastered to my
satisfaction, but it must be a perfectly straight edge for the pen to
behave well, especially using paper (I wish I could afford vellum!)).
I found the critical part in getting working pens was the slit and it
leaves me in some amazement that someone would find the slit
unnecessary. I can only assume that the pen is being used in a completely
different way, with small amounts of ink on the tip being spread across
the paper, rather than the ink being very gradually fed by the slit to
the tip of the pen. By the first method I could only get a few letters
without redipping, whereas with slitted pens you get ten to twenty or more
words from a drop of ink loaded into the pen by a paintbrush. This seems
practical evidence that they did use pens with slits (I'm certain they
didn't write a few letters at a time) but there is also instructions for
making a slit in the pen in several medieval artists handbooks (sorry,
refs not handy, but could be acquired) and illuminations of scribes that
clearly show pens with slits in them.
The problem I had with the slit was that putting pressure on the pen for
writing would make the two sections of the tip part slightly, opening
the slit and stopping the flow of ink (it works by osmosis). Using the
pen upside down over came this but wasn't a satisfactory solution - you
don't get such nice writing (although it's still better than lots of
calligraphy fountain pens). The solution of this problem was three-fold
1. The use of a stiffer quill (see above) which doesn't open under
pressure
2. The use of a very fine blade (see above) to get a very fine and even
slit
3. Cutting the slit shorter and the nib into a more square shape
than the shape of modern steel nibs, which also counteracts the tendency
of the sides to part.
As I mention above, having this sort of pen work requires a very
straight edge, because the ink is drawn onto the width of the tip of the
nib by osmosis when the tip is flat against the paper, so any
irregularites will disturb the flow of ink (yes you do need smooth sorts
of paper but I assume that's what you use). It can be a frustrating
buisness try to trim a nib into shape (and once you've used it a while
it needs retrimming) but the results are WONDERFUL as anyone who has
tried a good nib will know.
I hope these observations will be useful to other scribes: and I would
certainly be interested in hearing how others have fared in their
experiments with quill pens. And I would advise any calligraphers to try
it some time - there are calligraphic strokes in medieval scripts that
you just _can't do_ with a modern pen, but they flow beautifully from a
quill! I'm just sorry this medium doesn't permit me to demonstrate :-)
In service,
Caitlin de Courcy.
23 Jan 92
PTH 1:109/401.0 at FidoNet
From: henwe at sssab.se (Henric Weyde)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Organization: Scandinavian System Support AB
FREE THE SCRIBES
****************
Greetings unto the good people on the Rialto,
My humble suggestion:
The Gutenberg printing was introduced in the 15th century. i know for
certain that by 1470 absolution letters were preprinted forms where
only the place, date, time, name and price was left out to be filled in
by hand.
(What a pity this invention was made for every administration in this
world to follow without any restain).
So, make or find an appropriate original, get hold of an old type handmade
paper and use a modern type of photocopier.
If you want a paper to achieve the appearance of a parchement, oil it with
raw linessed oil and turpentine (50/50).
If you want to add a seal use a jute string and a porcelaineclay that will
harden in an oven.
My facsimile absolution letter, original from 1485 found in the Swedish
national archives is considered good enough to appear at a medieaval
exhibition at the local museum.
Depending on the occasion this might be something to consider?
/Your humble servant
Bartolomeo di Camerino
alias Henric Weyde
Date: 31 Jan 92
From: ddfr at quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
"Perhaps our scribes could improve their visibility in some way."
(Fiacha)
This suggests an interesting way of combining visibility with
appreciation. I believe that period scribes in at least some period
cultures had pen cases--things they wore that held pens, perhaps ink,
etc. I have not checked any details, but I am pretty sure I remember
a pen case as one of the charges described in "Mamluk Heraldry," and
I think there are similar things in Christian Europe. How about a
kingdom project (by the non-scribes) to research what pen cases
looked like, make a lot of recognizably similar ones, and, over time,
present one to every scribe who does award scrolls. That would both
be a thankyou and make it easier to recognize scribes who did award
scrolls.
Cariadoc
31 Jan 92
From: branwen at flipper.ccc.amdahl.com (Karen Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA
In article <9201301851.AA27232 at premise.prime.com.> nathan at premise.prime.COM (Nathan Kronenfeld) writes:
>Official scrolls are far from the only possible place to use one's
>calligraphic skill.
Before I assign scrolls to people, I need to see an example of their
calligraphy and illumination. For new people, this is difficult, since
they haven't done anything yet. I have been having them just do a scroll,
but in the few cases were the scroll isn't acceptable but they think it's
just lovely, I have a problem. So recently I've decided that for new
people, as a warrant piece I'll have them illuminate a period poem. That
way, they can take home their work, and if I can't use their first effort,
they still can.
Branwen ferch Emrys
The Mists, the West
--
Karen Williams
branwen at flipper.ras.amdahl.com
Re: Scribal visibility
3 Feb 92
From: habura at vccnorthb.its.rpi.edu (Andrea Marie Habura)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY
Cariadoc asks for information on European pen holders. Ther is one that I
became aware of through heraldry (what else? Boy, I'm in a rut. Someone talk
about embroidery, quick!).
The Worshipful Company of Scriveners of the City of London, a period guild,
have in their arms an eagle holding in the beak an object called a "penner
and inkhorn". It consists of a scabbard-shaped object with a cap, which seems
to be a pen holder, and a squat container (probably an ink bottle), connected
by two lengths of cord. Pathetic ASCII art follows. Bear with me.
X*****---------/ /------------------*****X
****************** *********
****************** pen holder #*********
****************** bottle #*********
****************** #*********
****************** *********
X*****--------/ /-------------------*****X
The X's are knots in the cord. The cord is run through little tubes on the
sides of the containers and knotted. The pen holder is longer than it
looks, and is pointed at the bottom.
The eagle in the Scriveners' arms holds this object by the cord, with the
two containers dangling down on either side. It appears that this object
would do nicely on a belt (with the inkhorn empty, or with a very good stopper). It has the advantage of being distinctive, easy to carry prominently, and
easy and cheap to make in its simplest form.
Sounding off as usual,
Alison MacDermot
Contacting John the Artificer (period pigments, etc.)
4 Feb 92
From: Marion.Kee at a.nl.cs.cmu.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Greeting to the Rialto from Marian Greenleaf:
[Master] John the Artificer, O.L., may be contacted as:
John Rose
250 Emerson St.
Pittsburgh, PA 15206
(412) 362-0421
You might want to put an "Attention: ordering pigments" line, or some
such, on the envelope. Or just call him and find out what to send him.
If you write for information, I recommend sending an SASE.
John also is a source for woad seeds, information on ferret breeding,
and a number of other interesting items both material and intellectual.
He speaks barter, although cash has a lot of appeal. If you're really
interested in learning something from him, let him know; he really
likes teaching interested people, although he can be abrupt at times.
--Marian
18 May 92
From: jtn at nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Unto the good gentles of the Rialto does Lord Hossein Ali Qomi send greetings
and prayers for the blessings of Allah.
Lord Jeremy de Merstone recently posted a perceptive comment on "official"
calligraphy in the SCA:
>The main problem with award scrolls is that their period counterparts
>(when anybody bothered to set them down on a special piece of parchment/
>paper/vellum/whatever in the first place, as opposed to just recording
>them on a list in a ledger someplace during a visitation) were simply
>not very decorative. They weren't meant to be. The important part was
>*what* the thing said ("So-and-so and his progeny have the right to do
>such-and-such, signed, The King"), and not how they *looked*. [As with
>anything, there were occasional exceptions to this general statement,
>but this held pretty well true until after the SCA's period.]
Lord Jeremy is by and large quite right about the general lack of decoration
in official documents -- letters patent, charters, writs, etc. -- in the
medieval period. However, his example -- "So-and-so and his progeny have
the right to do such-and-such, signed The King" -- isn't quite so correct.
The formularies in official documents varied widely by time and place and,
indeed, a substantial branch of the paleographic science, diplomatics, is
given to the analysis of such formularies.
I have found that most calligraphers in the SCA tend toward the kinds of
book hands and illumination which were not characteristic of medieval
official documents for two reasons. First, book calligraphy and illumination
is more aesthetically pleasing to many; it's very pretty and it catches the
eye right readily. The problem is that medieval official documents weren't
designed to catch the eye. Second, book calligraphy and illumination are
far more commonly available as exemplars than medieval official document
texts -- coffeetable books of illuminated manuscripts, while expensive, are
usually available in any good bookstore; facsimiles of official documents
are generally not.
I do _only_ official document recreations. The reasons are simple. I'm
the lousiest artist in the SCA and most book hands and fancy illumination
are simply beyond my capacity. I use Latin paleography and diplomatics in
my mundane research and am familiar with the abbreviation systems and
court/secretarial hands, particularly those used in English and Imperial
chanceries. Finally, I think authenticity is more important than aesthetics --
harried clerks and scribes in royal chanceries weren't that concerned with
beauty, they had mountains of parchment-work to sort through daily.
I've had the advantage of formal training in paleography and acquaintance
with a wide range of paleographic and diplomatic studies and have collected
a bibliography of useful texts and facsimiles of official documents suitable
for exemplars for analogous SCA scrolls. I have edited the bibliography
down to things which most university libraries will probably have; there are
roughly another hundred rarer facsimile collections which one is likely to
find only in major research libraries at institutions which grant Ph.D.s
in medieval history (if anyone is _truly_ interested, I'd be happy to email
that list as well, when I shan't be needing my hands for anything after
all that typing).
The following is a lengthy, but partial, bibliography of sources for texts
and/or facsimiles of period diplomata:
_Album paleographique ou Recueil de documents importants relatifs a
l'histoire et a la litterature nationales_ (Paris, 1887).
C. Bemont, _Chartes des libertes anglaises_ (Paris, 1902).
T.A.M.Bishop and P. Chaplais, _Facsimiles of English Royal Writs to A.D.
1100)_ (Oxford, 1957).
T.A.M. Bishop, _Scriptores Regis: Facsimiles to Identify and Illustrate the
Hands of Royal Scribes in Original Carters of Henry I, Stephen, and
Henry II_ (Oxford, 1955).
A. de Bouard, _Manuel de diplomatique francaise et pontificale_ (Paris,
1925).
B. de Broussillon, _Cartulaire de l'abbaye de Saint-Aubin d'Angers_
(Paris, 1903).
P. Chevreux and J. Vernier, _Les Archives de Normandie et de la Seine-
Inferieure: recueil de facsimiles_ (Rouen, 1911).
H.W.C. Davies, _Regesta Regum Anglo-Normannorum_ (Oxford, 1913).
L.Delisle and E. Berger, _Recueil des Actes de Henry II concernant les
provinces francaises et les affaires de France_ (Paris, 1909-27).
N. Denholm-Young, _Handwriting in England and Wales_ (Cardiff, 1954).
D.C. Douglas, _Feudal Documents from the Abbey of Bury St. Edmunds_
(London, 1932).
Sir G.F. Duckett, _Charters and Records Among the Archives of the
Ancient Abbey of Cluny_ (Lewes, 1888).
_Facsimiles of Ancient Charters in the British Museum_ (London, 1876-
78).
_Facsimiles of Early Charters in Northamptonshire Collections_
(Northampton, 1930).
E. Falconi, _L'edizione diplomatica del documento e del manoscritto_
(Parma, 1969).
W. Farrer, _Early Yorkshire Charters_ (Edinburgh, 1914-16).
H. Fichtenau, _Das Urkundenwesen in Oesterreich vom 8. bis zum
fruehen 13. Jahrhundert_ (Vienna, 1971).
V. Federici, _La Scrittura delle cancellerie italiane dal secolo XII al XVII_
(Rome, 1934).
F. Gasparri, _L'Ecriture des actes de Louis VI, Louis VII, et Phillippe
Auguste_ (Geneva, 1973).
B.E.C. Guerard, _Cartulaire de Saint-Pere de Chartres_ (Paris, 1840).
N.D. Harding, _Bristol Charters, 1155-1373_ (Bristol, 1930).
W.H. Hart and P.A. Lyons, _Cartularium Monasterii de Rameseia_
(London, 1884-93).
W. Hunt, _Two Chartularies of the Priory of St. Peter of Bath_ (Somerset,
1893).
C. Johnson and H. Jenkinson, _English Court Hand, A.D. 1066-1500_
(Oxford, 1915).
H. Jenkinson, _The Later Court Hands in England from the XVth to the
XVII Century_ (Cambridge, 1927).
W.T. Lancaster, _Chartulary of the Prior of Bridlington_ (Leeds, 1912).
A.C. Laurie, _Early Scottish Charters prior to 1153_ (Glasgow, 1905).
E. de Lepinois and L. Merlet, _Cartulaire de Notre-Dame de Chartres_
(Chartres, 1861-65).
L.C. Lloyd and D.M. Stenton, _Sir Christopher Hatton's Book of Seals_
(Oxford, 1950).
T. Madox, _Formulare Anglicanum, or a Collection of Ancient Charters_
(London, 1702).
J. Mallon, _L'Ecriture de la chancellerie imperiale romaine_
(Salamanca, 1948).
E. Monaci, et al. _Archivo Paleografico Italiano_ (Rome, 1882- ) [15 vols.]
_Monumenta Germaniae Historica_ [a series of dozens of volumes
providing texts for virtually all the extant Merovingian, Carolingian,
and Holy Roman Imperial manuscripts, as well as patristic and
ecclesiastical literature -- breathtakingly exhaustive German
scholarship at its best].
E. Prou, _Recueil de fac-similes d'ecritures du Ve au XVIIe siecle_ (Paris,
1904).
A.J. Robertson, _Anglo-Saxon Charters_ (Cambridge, 1939).
J.H. Round, _Ancient Charters Royal and Private Prior to A.D. 1200_
(London, 1888).
J.H. Round, _Calendar of Documents Preserved in France_ (London,
1900).
H.E. Salter, _The Boarstall Cartulary_ (Oxford, 1930).
H.E. Salter, _Facsimiles of Early Charters in Oxford Muniment Rooms_
(Oxford, 1929).
W.B. Sanders, _Facsimiles of Anglo-Saxon Manuscripts_ (Southampton,
1878-84).
F. Sauer and J. Stummvoll, _Codices Selecti Phototypice Impressi_ (Graz,
1960-1979).
G.C. Simpson, _Scottish Handwriting, 1150-1650_ (Edinburgh, 1973).
F.M. Stenton, _English Feudalism_ (Oxford, 1932).
F.M. Stenton, _Transcripts of Charters Relating to Gilbertine Houses_
(Lincoln, 1922).
R. Thommen, _Urkendenlehre_ (Leipzig/Berlin, 1913).
J.J. Vernier, _Chartes de l'abbaye de Jumieges_ (Rouen, 1916).
G.F. Warner and H.J. Ellis, _Facsimiles of Royal and Other Charters in the
British Museum_ (London, 1903).
C.E. Wright, _English Vernacular Hands from the Twelfth to the
Fifteenth Centuries_ (Oxford, 1960).
I hope that a bibliography of this sort is useful.
In Service to the Society,
Hossein Ali Qomi
Subject:Awards & scrolls
Date: 25 May 92
From: perkins at msupa.pa.msu.EDU (Jeremy de Merstone)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Organization: The Internet
Arval writes:
> Graydon, you made one side point that caught my eye:
>
> > First off, the whole SCA concept of 'scroll' is a modern construction.
> > I have only encountered such words as 'writ' and 'charter' and 'letters
> > close' and 'letters patent' and 'capitulary' in reference to medieval
> > legal documents. So the name is invented.
>
> Excellent point; let us dedicate ourselves to stamping out that word, and
> adopting the more authentic terms. Can anyone give us precise definitions
> of these terms and others related?
Wait! Before anyone goes around "stamping out" the word "scroll", let's
check the OED. Notes: "a" in front of a date means "before" (from _ante_);
I have represented the letters "edh" and "thorn" by <th>, and the letter
"yogh" by <y>; meanings without bearing on the discussion have been
ignored, as have all OOP citations, and in-period citations beyond a limit
of two per meaning.
Scroll (meaning 1) A roll of paper or parchment, usually one with
writing upon it.
14.. Nom. in Wr.-Wulcker 682/26 "Hec sidulo, a scrowle"
a1513 FABYAN Chron VII (1533) 152b "He therfore redde the scrowle
of resignacyon him selfe..."
Scrowe (meaning 1) = SCROLL, meaning 1
a1225 Ancr. R. 282 "<Y>if <th>u hauest knif o<th>er clo<th>, mete
o<th>er drunch, scrowe o<th>er quaer, holi monne uroure."
13.. Coer de L. 3395 "Looke every mannys name thou wryte, Upon a
scrowe off parchemyn."
Roll (meaning I.1) A piece of parchment, paper, or the like, which is
written upon or intended to contain writing, etc., and is rolled
up for convenience of handling or carrying; a scroll.
a1225 Ancr. R. 344 "Nis non so lutel <th>inng of <th>eos <th>et
<th>e deouel naue<th> enbreued on his rolle."
1303 R. BRUNNE Handl. Synne 9287 "Wy<th> hys te<th>e he gan to
drawe,.. <Th>at hys rolle to-braste and ro<s>e."
(meaning I.2) {spec.} Such a piece of parchment, paper, etc.
inscribed with some formal or official record; a document or
instrument in this form.
1377 LANGL. P. Pl. B, xix, 460 "With _spiritus_intellectus_ they
seke <th>e reues rolles."
1433 Rolls of Parl. IV 479/1 "That the rolles of accounte of the
Baillifs, and the rentall rolle,.. and all Court rolles been
putte and kepte in the cofre."
[In Latin documents of the time, the terms "Sedulum" (1224), "Rotulus"
(1142) and "Rollus" (1162), along with spelling variants and specifying
adjectives were used for what we would call a "scroll".]
As for Graydon's suggestions:
Writ (meaning 3) A formal writing or paper of any kind; a legal document
or instrument.
a1122 O. E. Chron. (Laud. MS) an.963 "Hu se papa Agatho hit
feostnode mid his write".
a1200 in Kemble Cod. Dipl. IV 203 "Ich mid <th>usen write <y>elde
and <y>eue...."
(the more general meaning of "that which is written" goes back at
least to the 10th century; a detour into French and back gave the
synonym "escript" found from the late 15th century till after 1700)
Charter (etymol. discussion) lit. A leaf of paper (in OE, called "boc",
BOOK); a legal document or 'deed' written (usually) upon a single
sheet of paper, parchment, or other material, by which grants,
cessions, contracts, and other transactions are confirmed and
ratified.
(meaning 1) A written document delivered by the sovereign or
legislature: [goes on to give specific reasons for such delivery
with examples going back to the 13th century, including the Magna
Carta]
(meaning 2) A written evidence, instrument, or contract executed
between man and man : [examples in three sub-categories from the
13th century on]
(meaning 4) As a rendering of L. _charta_ taken: Paper; a paper,
writing, letter, document, etc. [examples from 14th century from
the Wyclif Bible]
Letters Close ... the term doesn't seem to appear in the OED under either
"letter" or "close". There is mention of "close rolls" being
collections of "close writs" (grants under the Great Seal to
private individuals for particular purposes) and similar items,
with the earliest example from 1612.
Letters Patent (meaning I.1 under "patent") An open letter or document,
usually from a sovereign or person in authority, issued for
various purposes, e.g., to put on record some agreement or
contract, to authorize or command something to be done, to confer
some right, privilege, title, property, or office... [examples
from 1292 onwards].
Capitulary (meaning 2) A collection of ordinances (in mod. L. called
_capitula_), especially those made on their own authority by the
Frankish Kings. [examples of this and the variant form "capitular"
all date from after 1600; as a *Latin* term (thus ignored by the
OED), I have a reference from the 13th century of "capitularium",
meaning the set of regulations of a religious chapter--JdM].
While several of Graydon's examples are perfectly fine alternate terms,
there is nothing wrong with "scroll", either (and this is just English --
"escroue" plus spelling variants were the French versions).
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeremy de Merstone George J Perkins perkins at msupa.pa.msu.edu
North Woods, MidRealm East Lansing, MI perkins at msupa (Bitnet)
Subject: Scribal arts (was Concep
Date: 21 May 92
From: Stephen.Whitis at f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Stephen Whitis)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Arvcal wrote...
>The East does not have standard promissaries. We do give out
>promissaries from time to time, but they are done as needed by scribes
>in service to the Crown, and I must say that they are often pretty
>wonderful pieces of work on their own. I know that some kingdoms use
>photocopied scroll-blanks as promissaries; I'd be interested to hear how
>this varies from kingdom to kingdom. What does your kingdom give out
>with an award?
I too would be interested in how other kingdoms handle award
scrolls.
In Ansteorra, at AOA and Grant level, each award has one or more
blanks which we call charters. A charter is similar to a coloring
book page, being a B&W copy (on nice paper) which has the
calligraphy and outlines for the illumination. The spaces where
the recipients name, the date, the branch holding the event, and
the crown signs are left blank and filled in as needed. These
blank charters are distributed amoung the illuminers, who paint
them to look like "real" scrolls. (Or a faxcimile thereof! :-))
In addition, and in theory, each person can request a "real"
scroll, (Called an achievement) one at each major level. (AOA,
Grant, Peerage.) The kingdom scroll person will assign that scroll
to one of the advanced calligraphy/illumination persons, who will
work with the recipient to come up with a scroll they will like,
and this scribe will then make the scroll. The achievement will
have their arms (if registered) and some reference to all the
awards that person has received so far. (I'm not sure if they will
assign achievements for someone who does not have registered arms,
or if they do, how it is handled.)
In practice, there is no backlog on the charters. (Though they
usually are running close to empty.) But very few of the
achievements are done. In fact, most people never make a request
for an achievement. (IMO, because they don't expect to ever see
it.) The few achievements that *do* get completed are usually from
a situation where person A wants a scroll, and is a friend of
person B, a scribe. They tell the kingdom person they are doing
it, and do it.
I could of course give my opinions about changes that I think
should be made in our system, but I think I'll pass for now.
Stephen Whitis/Stephen of the Grove
Steppes/Ansteorra FIDO 1:124/4229
Date: 22 May 92
From: branwen at cerebus.ccc.amdahl.com (Karen Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA
OK, so SCA award scrolls aren't period, and everyone assumes that calligraphy
and illumination are free. What sorts of c&i would be valued (enough to sell)
by the population, and be period?
How about:
a period recipe?
a love poem?
a war poem?
an indulgence from the church?
Do you think someone of Viking persuasion would love to own a copy of
a saga (or part of one) done in the appropriate hand and with the appropriate
illumination? Wouldn't a thirteenth-century recipe look great framed on
your kitchen wall? (Eric Foxworthy wrote out "Louie, Louie" in Elvish,
with illumination including gold leaf, and sold color photocopies at a con.
They went quickly.)
One of my upcoming projects is a bestiary (which I'm making for myself,
wonder of wonders). I'd like to do a Book of Hours for myself, too, someday.
Ah, and a carpet page. I'd love a carpet page.
Anybody have any other ideas of valuable, period calligraphy and illumination?
Branwen ferch Emrys
The Mists, the West
--
Karen Williams
branwen at cerebus.ras.amdahl.com
Awards & scrolls
25 May 92
From: Tim at f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Fra Tadhg Liath unto Master Arval Benicoeur and all others unto whom these
presents shall have come giveth greeting:
JM> Graydon, you made one side point that caught my eye:
JM> > First off, the whole SCA concept of 'scroll' is a modern construction.
JM> > I have only encountered such words as 'writ' and 'charter' and 'letters
JM> > close' and 'letters patent' and 'capitulary' in reference to medieval
JM> > legal documents. So the name is invented.
JM> Excellent point; let us dedicate ourselves to stamping out that word, and
JM> adopting the more authentic terms. Can anyone give us precise definitions
JM> of these terms and others related?
Certainly. While I was one of the Shield Heralds of the Middle Kingdom ten
years ago (and mundanely a law student) I did a report for Mistress
Graidhne, then Dragon Principal Herald, on that very subject.
The *carta* or charter was the most formal and solemn document produced by
governments during the Middle Ages. They were invariably used for grants of
rights "in perpetuity", such as lands, hereditable honors and franchises,
and Papal privileges (called "bulls" from the lead *bulla* or seal).
Charters were also used for solemn confirmations of prior grants (in
England referred to as an "Inspeximus" from the initial word of the
dispositive clause). Charters were discontinued in England in 1516 after a
period of decline, their function being increasingly taken over by letters
patent.
*Litterae patentes* or "letters patent" were so called because they were
open (or "patent") for all to read, as distinct from "letters close"
(*litterae clausae), which were sealed closed so that only the recipient
would read them (since the seal had to be broken to get at the text).
Letters patent differed from charters in the form of address, the manner
of sealing, the formula of the Injunction, and the manner of attestation.
"Writ" is the English translation of the Latin term "breve", more
literally "brief" (surviving in Scots law as "brieve"). It refers to an
official letter of instruction from an office of government to a particular
person, typically a government official, to take some action. It survives
as such primarily in the legal system, in the form of an instruction from
a court. Commonly encountered writs in the English-speaking world are the
writ of Habeas Corpus, requiring that someone be either brought to trial
or released; the writ of mandamus, through which a higher court modifies
the actions of a lower; and the writ of summons to parliament, which in
England is used to initiate elections and assemble the peers for a
parliamentary session. The traditional "forms of action" of English Common
Law depended upon the "original writs" from the King's Chancery that were
avalailable to any subject for the initiation of legal actions in the
King's Courts.
A "capitulary" is an abbreviated record of legal documents relating to a
certain subject, so called from the fact that it was arranged by "headings"
or "chapters". The term generally refers to compilations of ordinances
issued by the Frankish kings during the early parts of our Period.
To Haj Hossein's excellent bibliography recently posted I should like to
add some other titles that people working with medieval diplomata,
especially those just starting out, might find useful:
= The standard law dictionaries: Black's for the U.S. and Jowett's for
Britain. One can often plainly see the skeleton of medieval practice
underlying the structure of modern legal uses of certain terms.
= Hubert Hall, *Studies in English Historical Documents* (1908) and its
companion the two-volume *Formula Book of English Historical Documents*
(1908). The latter was reprinted in 1969; I can't seem to find my set,
otherwise I'd post details.
= Pierre Chaplais, *English Royal Documents King John - Henry VI
1199-1461* (1971) is, I think, the best starting place for an SCA
researcher without prior exposure.
= Arthur Giry, *Manuel de Diplomatique* (1925), especially nice for its
coverage of seals and sealing methods.
= Cesare Paoli, *Diplomatica* (1942), deals extensively with Italy and
especially the Papal chancery, which was the model for all medieval
chanceries.
= Harry Breslau, *Handbuch der Urkundenlehre fuer Deutschland und Italien*
(1889), which I believe was reprinted in 1958.
= Ludwig Rockinger, *Ueber Formelbuecher vom XII biz zum XVI Jahrhunderts
als rechtsgeschichliche Quellen* (1855) and *Ueber Briefsteller und
Formelbuecher in Deutschland waehrend des Mittelalter* (1861) deal with
the formula books that medieval chanceries themselves used in the
preparation of documents.
Further more detailed information may be had from my article "Medieval
Official Document Forms" in the Proceedings of the Known World Heraldic
Symposium (Ansteorra 1990), which is still available if I'm not mistaken.
Tadhg, Hanaper
* Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: Jeff Lee <jlee at smylex.UUCP>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: scrolls.....
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 93 11:08:08 EDT
Organization: Wyvernwood, Trimaris (Tampa, FL)
Greetings from Godfrey!
Nicolaa de Bracton of Leicester writes:
> I DREAM of having a correctl-done charter-type scroll,
> in scrawly thirteenth-century notary hand, with absolutely no illumination
> or decoration save a pendant wax seal.
Period legal documents were not necessarily text-only. The East Kingdom
standards manual shows a few examples of period legal documents:
o A grant of arms to the Worshipful Company of Tallow
Chandlers, England 1456. Very large illuminated capital,
with a fairly wide illuminated border (including the arms)
down the left side.
o Arms scroll, Sigismund of Germany, 1460. Mostly text, with
decoration around the escutcheon.
o Diploma, Jean of France, 1400's. Large historiated initial.
o Petition by the Fugger family of Augsburg to Pope Alexander
VI ca. 1500. Large illuminated capital, elaborate border
(including several escutcheons) on the top and both sides.
o Scroll of Emperor Frederick II of Germany, 1270. Very large
illuminated capital, a lot of text, and a large seal.
o Scroll of Emperor Alexins III Ceanenus, Constantinople, 1200's.
The text is dwarfed by the painting of one haloed and crowned
figure handing a scroll to another haloed figure.
Although the depictions in the standards manual are simple line-drawing
representations of the originals, some of them appear to be at least as
elaborate as most of the `book-of-hours scrolls' that Tadhg denigrates
with such enthusiastic bombast.
(No, I'm not defending the fact that many of our scrolls are inauthentic.
Then again, neither are most of our awards!)
> One real problem with the "surprise" factor is that award recipients
> are never given a chance to perhaps comission a scroll from a talented friend
> who really knows their tastes.
When I lived in the East Kingdom, the Tyger Clerk (who gave scroll
assignments to the scribes) attempted to assign scrolls to scribes who
lived in the same area as the recipient, if possible; scribes could also
request assignments (for example, `If XXX gets an award, I'd like to do
the scroll').
One thing that I was taught was that, if I was assigned a scroll for
someone I didn't know, it was best to call the seneschal of that
person's home group and find out some things about the person (when
and where their persona was from, what colors they liked, &cetera).
That makes for a much more personal scroll.
> Ah, well, I should talk. None of my scrolls are colour xerox
> copies with the name written in......
And with any luck, neither will anyone in Trimaris ever receive such
scrolls again!
*sigh* This is all personal opinion, and should not be construed as
an official statement from the Office of the Trimaris Chart Herald, the
Kingdom of Trimaris, or the Society for Creative Anachronism, Incorporated.
===== Jeff Lee / jlee at smylex.uucp / jlee%smylex.uucp at tscs.tscs.com =====
===== SCA: Lord Godfrey de Shipbrook, Trimaris Chart Herald =====
===== Per pale azure and argent, a clarion counterchanged or and gules =====
From: greg at bronze.lcs.mit.edu (Greg Rose)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: scrolls.....
Date: 6 Jul 1993 01:26:00 -0400
Organization: MIT LCS guest machine
Lord Godfrey writes:
>Period legal documents were not necessarily text-only. The East Kingdom
>standards manual shows a few examples of period legal documents:
>
> o A grant of arms to the Worshipful Company of Tallow
> Chandlers, England 1456. Very large illuminated capital,
> with a fairly wide illuminated border (including the arms)
> down the left side.
Commissioned by the Company from a private artist and not produced in a
chancery.
> o Arms scroll, Sigismund of Germany, 1460. Mostly text, with
> decoration around the escutcheon.
This is an artist achievement, not a chancery document.
> o Diploma, Jean of France, 1400's. Large historiated initial.
No one ever said that you don't occasionally see an elaborated initial
in some chancery documents. However, it is almost never of the sort
one associates with book hands and it is _only_ the initial. Occasionally
one sees enlarged, but not elaborated letters in the first line of a
charter, usually in the second half of a chirograph -- with the cut
through the enlarged letters.
> o Petition by the Fugger family of Augsburg to Pope Alexander
> VI ca. 1500. Large illuminated capital, elaborate border
> (including several escutcheons) on the top and both sides.
Again, not a chancery document.
> o Scroll of Emperor Frederick II of Germany, 1270. Very large
> illuminated capital, a lot of text, and a large seal.
An outlier par excellence -- look at Bresslau's _Handbuch der
Urkundenlehre fuer Deutschland und Italien_ to see the central tendency
of HR Imperial diplomatics.
> o Scroll of Emperor Alexins III Ceanenus, Constantinople, 1200's.
> The text is dwarfed by the painting of one haloed and crowned
> figure handing a scroll to another haloed figure.
Maybe the document exists, I don't know. I do know that there was
never a Byzantine emperor by that name. It's either Alexius II Comnenus
(1167-1883) or Alexius III Angelus (1195-1203), but it isn't Alexins III
Ceanenus. What "kind" of a scroll -- a diploma, a charter, what? Was
it chancery-produced or monastic?
>Although the depictions in the standards manual are simple line-drawing
>representations of the originals, some of them appear to be at least as
>elaborate as most of the `book-of-hours scrolls' that Tadhg denigrates
>with such enthusiastic bombast.
I just posted an introductory bibliography of sources in diplomatics and
facsimiles of notarial/secretarial-hand documents. Tadhg has also posted
references to such sources (although not that recently). It really chaps
me to have some half-assed SCA publication quoted as evidence that
Tadhg is wrong. Remember the biblical passage about the blind leading
the blind and both falling into the ditch? It characterizes a large
percentage of the "information" in SCA publications, particularly things
like the manual you cite.
Read Koch's book on the Holy Roman Imperial chancery in the 12th and
13th centuries and tell me that the East Kingdom standards manual knows
more about the palaeography and diplomatics of HRE documents. Read
Giry or De Bouard and tell me that that manual knows more about
French chancery practices.
The ability to cite outliers tells you nothing about the central tendency.
By the logic of "it happened once somewhere in the middle ages, it must be
period" the marginal note I once saw in a bible from the Abbey of Lorsch
("Abbas cum Hlothario nefas fecit") implies that every bible produced in
every scriptorium in Europe had some scribe's accusation of the abbot's
sodomy scrawled in the margin. There's a rules-lawyerly fascination
with the oddity which permeates the SCA's approach to the middle ages
and documentation which I find unfathomable.
>(No, I'm not defending the fact that many of our scrolls are inauthentic.
>Then again, neither are most of our awards!)
The less genteel version of this attitude is: we do some things in a
half-assed way, therefore we should allow everything to be done in
a half-assed way. I don't buy it.
Hossein/Greg
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: nusbache at epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: scrolls.....
Organization: University of Toronto - Semi-Employed Alumni
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 12:11:07 GMT
Remember, Greg, that the East Kingdom standards manual was not
designed to give a good, general representation of chancery documents
of the Middle Ages. It started from the position of an existing
style, the SCA scroll, and worked backwards to include the appropriate
mediaeval documents.
Note the preponderance of commercial documents amongst the works
cited. Robert S. Lopez would be pleased to see expensive illumination
being paid for by the Fuggers and the Tallow Chandlers instead of by
noblemen. Proof that money caused Protestantism...
Aryk Nusbacher
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle at watson.ibm.com (Arval d'Espas Nord)
Subject: Re: scrolls.....
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 19:45:59 GMT
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research
Greetings from Arval! Hossein made two comments in his reply to Godfrey
that brought question to my mind:
> >Period legal documents were not necessarily text-only. The East Kingdom
> >standards manual shows a few examples of period legal documents:
> >
> > o A grant of arms to the Worshipful Company of Tallow
> > Chandlers, England 1456. Very large illuminated capital,
> > with a fairly wide illuminated border (including the arms)
> > down the left side.
>
> Commissioned by the Company from a private artist and not produced in a
> chancery.
Why should we take chancery documents, as opposed to private documents, as
the models for our scrolls?
> The ability to cite outliers tells you nothing about the central tendency.
> By the logic of "it happened once somewhere in the middle ages, it must be
> period" the marginal note I once saw in a bible from the Abbey of Lorsch
> ("Abbas cum Hlothario nefas fecit") implies that every bible produced in
> every scriptorium in Europe had some scribe's accusation of the abbot's
> sodomy scrawled in the margin.
Come on Hossein, you know that doesn't hold water: There is a difference
between saying "We can take this evidence as the basis for a re-creation"
and "Everything we re-create must follow this model."
> There's a rules-lawyerly fascination with the oddity which permeates the
> SCA's approach to the middle ages and documentation which I find
> unfathomable.
Your comments suggest that you believe (like Tadhg) that SCAfolk ought to
base their re-creative efforts on the norms of the cultures we are
studying. Do you believe that? If so, why? What is wrong with
re-creating oddities? That approach clearly will not provide a correct
picture of the culture as a whole, but it will still provide a correct
picture of some aspect of that culture.
===========================================================================
Arval d'Espas Nord mittle at watson.ibm.com
From: jtn at nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: scrolls.....
Date: 6 Jul 93 22:47:22 GMT
Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn. Arval posted recently on scrolls,
asking Hossein several questions. Now, I don't talk for Hossein (he and I
do not always agree, and lord knows, he talks well enough for himself). But
I have a few responses of my own....
Arval asks,
>Why should we take chancery documents, as opposed to private documents, as
>the models for our scrolls?
Because the crowns sign them. Because the office that prepares them is
appointed by the crown and organized as a kingdom office. Because in some
kingdomes, the herald's office signs them before they go out as witness that
they are official. All of these are appropriate _only_ if the documents
issue from a chancery. If they are private documents, the signatures and
seals are out of place, and the heralds do not have even the dimmest and
most distant claim to any interest in them whatsoever. And they are
private business between a recipient and an artisan, and no Clerk of the
Signet (or your kingdom's name for it) has any business with it.
Either they come from the Kingdom or they don't. If they do, the appropriate
model is documents that came from Crowns in period. If they don't, then
none of this bureaucracy has any business mucking around in them.
Arval also remarks on Hossein's objection to using outliers as models:
>> The ability to cite outliers tells you nothing about the central tendency.
>> By the logic of "it happened once somewhere in the middle ages, it must be
>> period" the marginal note I once saw in a bible from the Abbey of Lorsch
>> ("Abbas cum Hlothario nefas fecit") implies that every bible produced in
>> every scriptorium in Europe had some scribe's accusation of the abbot's
>> sodomy scrawled in the margin.
>
>Come on Hossein, you know that doesn't hold water: There is a difference
>between saying "We can take this evidence as the basis for a re-creation"
>and "Everything we re-create must follow this model."
But every model cited in that book is an outlier. _Only_ outliers are being
provided as models. What message does that send?
>> There's a rules-lawyerly fascination with the oddity which permeates the
>> SCA's approach to the middle ages and documentation which I find
>> unfathomable.
>
>Your comments suggest that you believe (like Tadhg) that SCAfolk ought to
>base their re-creative efforts on the norms of the cultures we are
>studying. Do you believe that? If so, why? What is wrong with
>re-creating oddities? That approach clearly will not provide a correct
>picture of the culture as a whole, but it will still provide a correct
>picture of some aspect of that culture.
Not if the oddity is presented _other_ than as an oddity. It is an accurate
depiction of current US trends if you show a lot of kids, one or two wearing
Mohawks, and those treated as outliers. It is a radically incorrect picture
of _any_ aspect of our culture -- including those who chose that style -- to
portray it as the central tendency. If it were the central tendency, they'd
be wearing something else. That's the point; missing that is missing the
point.
Also, if all you portray is the outliers, you not only misrepresent them, you
miseducate people who are picking up their sense of what is medieval from
what we reproduce. A huge proportion of the people who come into the SCA
develop their sense of what is, for instance, Norman garb by what people
who call their garb "Norman" wear. If what they're wearing has as little
to do with Norman garb as, say, Madonna's more far-out get-ups have to do
with current street wear, what we are doing is not only not educational, it's
counter-educational. That, I think, is a trend worth avoiding. We may grant
that there's a limit to what good we can do. Still, we should try to avoid
doing harm.
Cheers,
-- Angharad/Terry
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle at watson.ibm.com (Arval d'Espas Nord)
Subject: Re: scrolls.....
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 20:33:43 GMT
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research
Greetings from Arval!
My thanks to Hossein, Angharad, and Godfrey for their thoughts in this
thread. If I may summarize, we have seen the following facts:
1) The overwhelming majority of medieval charters are not decorated in the
manner of our award scrolls, the design of which is more closely based on
book pages.
2) In particular, chancery documents were rarely decorated in this manner.
3) Nevertheless, there are some charters which were decorated in this
manner. They are clearly not representative of the central tendency of
medieval diplomata (to use Hossein's words), but they did exist.
I think everyone in this conversation understands these facts, but they are
drawing very different conclusions depending, I believe, on what they are
interested in re-creating.
Hossein and Angharad focus on organizational aspects of SCA scrolls:
Scrolls are documents issued by the Crown and produced by its officers, and
therefore should re-create medieval chancery documents. Chancery
documents, in general, were not decorated like book pages; therefore our
official scrolls should generally not be so decorated. Angharad objected
to the use of exceptional examples as the models for our scrolls:
> _Only_ outliers are being provided as models. What message does that
> send? ...the oddity is presented _other_ than as an oddity.
Similarly, Hossein asked:
> What does the existence of outliers prove about the central tendency of
> medieval diplomata?
The key point in understanding their position is that they feel that SCA
institutions should be based on the common practices of medieval Europe,
not on exceptional cases. In effect, they want the institution itself (or
perhaps all scrolls considered together) to be a good re-creation.
Godfrey, on the other hand, appears to focus on a much finer scale. (I'm
drawing conclusions only from your position in this discussion, Godfrey,
and no doubt exaggerating it for my own rhetorical purposes. Please allow
me that liberty.) He finds sufficient satisfaction in the fact that each
scroll, viewed in isolation, is a good re-creation of _some_ period model.
The fact that the model on which it is based is an oddity doesn't bother
him. The institution doesn't concern him over much; the individual
re-creative efforts are the key to his enjoyment of the SCA. He wrote:
> I shall also stipulate that they were the exception rather than the rule.
> Nevertheless, they DO exist, which was the entire point of my original
> post.
There is a third view which has not been represented in this discussion,
which focusses at yet a finer level detail. There may be artisans in the
Society who consider it most important to re-create elements of a work,
without particular interest in the cumulative effect. They are perfectly
happy knowing that the script used on a scroll is an accurate re-creation
of a medieval hand and that the illumination is an accurate re-creation of
some form of medieval illumination; the fact that these two elements could
never have been combined in any medieval document bothers them not a whit.
It is important to realize that Hossein and Anghard on one hand, Godfrey on
the other hand, and my postulated scribes on Cariadoc's third hand, are not
re-creating the same things. They are re-creating in the same medium but
their aims are quite different, so it should come as no surprise at all
that their priorities clash or that their products are incompatible with
other goals. An obvious analogue can be found in many of the arguments
that Tadhg and I have had over the heraldic rules for submissions: Our
goals are quite different even though we are working in the same domain, so
it is not the least surprising that we come into conflict over the rules
governing our craft.
I think it is also important to realize that Godfrey's approach is the
predominant one in the Society today. Very few of us try very hard to make
our institutions re-creative activities in themselves. Most of us are
happy focussing on individual works of re-creation. That's also not
surprising: To make a single artifact a good re-creation, you don't need to
convince anyone that it is worthwhile. To make an institution be a good
re-creation, you have to convince everyone working in that domain to agree
on the same goal. That is an unlikely event.
The scribal arts are one of the most active areas of craftwork in the
Society for several reasons. First, our award system creates an
essentially unlimited demand for their product. A product in demand
increases in value; in our case, the value is embodied as esteem and
attractiveness of the craft. Second, the award system makes scribal
craftwork highly visible. Some people grouse that scrolls are displayed
once and then disappear forever, but scribal arts is the only craft of
which the product is regularly displayed in court. Visibility creates
further esteem, attracting more people to the craft. Third, scribal work
is a craft which is easy & flexible to practice, but which offers plenty of
room for developing expertise. It doesn't require a group of people
working together (though it can be so practiced). It doesn't require a
major investment to get started (though such an investment can be helpful).
It is familiar in the real world and many people bring basic skills with
them into the Society, but there is enormous range for research and
learning. Fourth, the scroll itself is a relatively small, self-contained
project. A scribe can go through a dozen scrolls in a year; each one is a
finishing point with all the associated feelings of accomplishment, and
each one is a chance to start anew in a new style, or with new tools, or
simply to put last months mistakes behind you and begin fresh. All these
reasons for the popularity of the scribal arts naturally lead to a focus on
the individual craftwork rather than the institution as a whole.
Hossein wrote:
> I don't think that a primary focus of SCA artisans ought to be scroll
> production at all. I think they should make the sorts of things that
> medieval artisans did.
I think that is a bit naive, Hossein. There is no comparable demand for
other products of scribal craftsmanship, nor could that work be nearly as
visible because it would have little practical purpose in the SCA. SCA
artisans understandably prefer to make items that can be produced at home
and used at SCA events. The scroll is the most practical outlet for their
skills and it is in demand. Until some equally-attractive option presents
itself, it is hard to imagine many scribes turning their attention
elsewhere.
Hossein also wrote:
> A lovely hand executing a medieval-like diploma is a beautiful thing.
No doubt, but it is a beauty which is harder to appreciate than the beauty
of an illuminated page. To appeciate that beauty and to develop the skills
necessary to produce it takes more and harder work; it should come as no
shock that most of our scribes prefer the quicker route to the
highly-appreciated illuminated page. Some of our most learned craftsmen
have turned to the more-difficult path, but experts are few in any field.
Hossein again:
> The only reason for which I can see making so marginal a part of medieval
> diplomata the _model_ for SCA awards calligraphy is gratification of the
> modern taste for wall-art. I don't see sacrificing one area of our
> recreation where we _could_ be authentic, and at little cost, to that
> modern taste.
You are making a crucial assumption here: that _we_ are trying to be
authentic. That is rarely true. _I_ am trying to be authentic, _you_ are
trying to be authentic, and _Godfrey_ is trying to be authentic, but it is
extraordinarily rare for more than a handful of people to try to be
authentic together. The standard model of SCA activity is not people
working together to build a single collective re-creation, but people
working separately to build thousands of individual re-creations. The SCA
certainly has room for both models (and others), and I generally agree that
it would be more fun if we did more collective re-creation. That's why I'm
helping build the Company of S. Michael and why I like narrow-focus events.
On the other hand, I don't think it should be the predominant model of SCA
activity nor that it should be built into our rules. That's why I'm am
working so hard to relax the regulation of heraldic style in the SCA.
In a note which I received privately, but which I think was posted to the
Rialto too, Hossein wrote:
> I am interested in historical re-creation on a broad scale and because I
> take seriously the SCA's role as an educational organization. If
> oddities statistically predominate, then one is teaching people about
> medieval oddities, not the middle ages.
Godfrey wrote, not in reply, but remarkably aptly:
> It sounds to me as though you're saying that, because such decorated
> secular documents were not the norm, the artisans of the SCA should not
> strive to make scrolls of beauty; that we should stick to text-only
> documents because MOST of the period examples were so. ... I think your
> position is ridiculous.
Neither position is ridiculous, they are simply in conflict. They aim at
different kinds of re-creation.
===========================================================================
Arval d'Espas Nord mittle at watson.ibm.com
From: jtn at nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: scrolls.....
Date: 8 Jul 93 00:35:59 GMT
Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn. Arval says,
>Hossein and Angharad focus on organizational aspects of SCA scrolls:
>Scrolls are documents issued by the Crown and produced by its officers, and
>therefore should re-create medieval chancery documents. Chancery
>documents, in general, were not decorated like book pages; therefore our
>official scrolls should generally not be so decorated. Angharad objected
>to the use of exceptional examples as the models for our scrolls:
>
>> _Only_ outliers are being provided as models. What message does that
>> send? ...the oddity is presented _other_ than as an oddity.
{stuff omitted}
>The key point in understanding their position is that they feel that SCA
>institutions should be based on the common practices of medieval Europe,
>not on exceptional cases. In effect, they want the institution itself (or
>perhaps all scrolls considered together) to be a good re-creation.
This is a good representation of Hossein's position, but I think rather less
accurate of mine.
As a bit of background, I do a little C&I. I've done some of it as scribal
work, to the tune of a bunch of baronial scroll work, and one for kingdom,
with two more commissioned that I intend to get around to Real Soon Now.
All the scrolls I've done have been {pause for drum roll....} medieval
wall art. For the relatively simple reason that it's what the people
getting them wanted. The scroll has almost no SCA life; it spends maybe
10 seconds in court, with people squinting at it from very far away, and
then it goes to live on someone's wall. Seems to me reasonable to give
them what they want.
But I don't particularly like doing those. If I were seriously trying to
make this one of the main things I do, I'd want to do very different
subjects. I'd want to keep more of my work, both to keep track of progress
and to see how various techniques and materials stand up to aging. And
I'd want something much more medieval at the end.
I'd _rather_ do authentic style chancery scrolls. They can be just as
beautiful, and I'd learn more doing them.
What I really think is the following.
First, we should get clearer on what the heck these things are, and what
they're for. I don't mean the awards (well, them too, but that's not
what I'm on about now): I mean the scrolls. If they are really documentary
evidence from Kingdom of the award, they should look like that. If they're
really a piece of wall art, we should do that right: we aren't now.
Why? Well, the right way to do wall art is to let the person who's getting
it have a reasonable level of say of whose work they want, what kind of
thing they want, and so on. Given the current system, scribes can express
preferences like "I'd like to do So-and-so's X", but the people who get the
thing are not in a position to request a particular scribe.
Scribes are encouraged to talk to the recipient for backlog scrolls, but it
isn't possible for a "surprise" award with a concurrent scroll. So it also
isn't possible to find out what the recipient wants.
I think we could do a far better job of matching wall art with wall art
possessors if we used the medieval solution: you want a piece of wall art
commemorating something, you go find an artisan and ask them to do it.
This might also alleviate the feelings expressed in past versions of this
thread that scribes are expected to donate everything: they could, e.g.,
barter.
This doesn't mean that you get nothing from the Crown. What it ought to
mean, I should think, is that you get a chancery document (_not_ a promissory:
it promises nothing, it rather records the creation) from the Crown, and
then, for your decorative achievement, you go talk to a scribe -- if you
_want_ a decorative achievement. You may not; some of us would be very
happy simply to frame the chancery document and put _that_ on our walls.
This also encourages _both_ kinds of models: the norm _and_ what was
possible if one wanted something exceptional. Then, if most of us wind
up with something exceptional, at least (a) we _understand_ that that is
what's going on, and (b) the normal is what is more common _within the
shared part of the recreation_. I do think that when that can be achieved
without loss, it is a good thing. And I don't see any loss to this plan.
And, by the way, this gives scribes more work, and higher profile, not
less of either.
Cheers,
-- Angharad/Terry
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ctallan at epas.utoronto.ca (Cheryl Tallan)
Subject: Re: scrolls.....
Organization: University of Toronto - EPAS
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 21:47:21 GMT
Re: Angharad/Terry's suggestion about giving chancery documents to
award recipients and having them arrange (commision) wall art if they
want it. GREAT! I LOVE IT!
But....
I suspect that there would be a much greater demand for chancery
documents than wall arts. (Everyone with an awards gets a chancery
document, only a small percentage of them will probably commission
wall art). On the other hand, there are MANY MORE scribes capable of
producing wall art than chancery documents. Yes, the secretary hand is
easier to do and faster than fancy book hands (that's why secretaries
used it) but only after you've mastered it. And from experience (and
not only my own) the stiffer, more formal hands are easier to learn.
And as they are much prettier to the modern eye (I like the chancery,
but it was a developed taste), I suspect the greater visual appeal,
combined with the ease of learning, will make the book hands the hands
of choice for most SCA scribes. And if they can get financial
renumeration (or barter) for book hands but are expected to give away
chancery scrolls....
So, I love your idea. I wish it were the way things were done. But the
reality as I see it is that it mismatches supply with demand.
Regards,
David/Thomas
From: jtn at nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: scrolls.....
Date: 9 Jul 93 02:08:13 GMT
Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn. Arval writes,
> most scribes appear to consider making illuminated pages to be more
>fun.
I'm not sure that this is really true, or rather, I think it's a product
of selecting initially for scribes who do that. I know that when I started
making scrolls in barony, and others got interested, virtually everyone
who wanted to get into it was happy to learn calligraphy, but terrified
of illumination. Most of them asked who else could do illumination for them,
if they did calligraphy.
Not one single beginner asked who would do calligraphy if s/he did the
illumination....
To this day, a fair number of scrolls are lettered by one artisan and
illuminated by another. My experience is that there are _many_ more
people intimidated by illumination than by calligraphy, and that making
it clear that scribal work need not involve large amounts of illumination
(I suggested the "one fancy initial, with simple kinds of fanciness"
solution to our beginners) greatly encouraged people to get involved.
> As long as that is true, and as long as the reception of illuminated
>pages is more enthusiastic, few scribes (and in particular, few novice
>scribes) will want to switch to the perceived "plain" style.
Actually, I think the "reception" issue is much more strong an influence than
the scribes' preference. I know that in Atlantia, even though scrolls may
be years coming, people tend to expect lots of color on them when they do
show up. It is not particularly inviting to do something difficult for
someone if you think the recipient is just as likely to feel cheated on
getting it.
>scribes) will want to switch to the perceived "plain" style. I think this
>is an excellent example of a problem which is best solved by individual
>action, and it seems that Atlantia is an ideal place to try it: Since most
>awards are not accompanied by a scroll when they are presented, there is a
>natural opening for chancery documents.
Yes -- but not for private commissioning of a more decorated one. People
expect a "final scroll" to follow a "promissory"; I don't think there will
be any less resistance here to going to private commission after chancery
document than anywhere else. It isn't the chancery nature of what you
get at the time that would be the problem, and in that regard, this is a
good place to pilot that idea; but it would still be viewed as a promissory,
and it would still be expected that the current, I think awkward system
would be used to produce it.
BTW, absolutely none of this should be taken as criticism either of the
scribes of Atlantia or of any of the recent Clerks of the Signet, who are
doing a lot of very hard work at a pretty thankless job. My problem is
with the system, not with the people struggling to make it work.
Cheers,
-- Angharad/Terry
From: Tim at f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: scrolls.....
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1993 19:54:50
SC> I DREAM of having a correctl-done charter-type scroll,
SC> in scrawly thirteenth-century notary hand, with absolutely no illumination
SC> or decoration save a pendant wax seal. If it could be a chirograph,
SC> (which means a document written out twice on a piece of parchment, then
SC> torn down the centre between the two bodies of text), I would absolutely
SC> DIE.
Ahem ... "chierograph" merely means that it's written by hand. The word
you appear to be looking for is "indenture" - and they were more commonly
cut than torn. But a noble ambition, nevertheless.
Come to Ansteorra, where Zodiacus Herald specializes in such documents....
Tadhg, Hanaper
ocitor!tim.4229 at rwsys.lonestar.org
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ctallan at epas.utoronto.ca (Cheryl Tallan)
Subject: secretary hands
Organization: University of Toronto - EPAS
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1993 05:40:59 GMT
Twcs writes that they have prepared a number of exemplars from scratch
of secretary hands because calligraphy books don't cover them.
Calligraphy books may not, but paleography books do and provide lots
of examples (even if they don't show, stroke by stroke, how the
letters are formed). A couple of examples sitting on my bookshelf:
_The Handwriting of English Documents_ by L.C.Hector (London: Edward
Arnold) Great book. Also includes sections on the equipment of the
writer, abbreviations,numerals, punctuation, errors and their
correction, etc.
_English Cursive Book Hands 1250-1500_ by M.B.Parkes (Oxford:
Clarendon Press) 1969
_English Vernacular Hands: from the twelfth to the fifteenth
centuries_ by C.E.Wright (Oxford: Clarendon Press) 1960
There are many more.
Note, not all of these include exclusively secretary hands, some
include the hands use for works of literature as well.
David Tallan (who doesn't see why some basic paleography is not
included as training for court heralds and who, as Thomas Grozier, is
surprised at how much trouble heralds have reading scrolls considering
how much more neat and even they are than what his secretary writes).
From: palmer at cis.ohio-state.edu (sharon ann palmer)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: secretary hands
Date: 7 Jul 1993 00:19:22 -0400
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
In article <1993Jul4.054059.13490 at epas.toronto.edu> ctallan at epas.utoronto.ca (Cheryl Tallan) writes:
>Twcs writes that they have prepared a number of exemplars from scratch
>of secretary hands because calligraphy books don't cover them.
>
>Calligraphy books may not, but paleography books do and provide lots
I am not a scribe, and cannot really evaluate it's usefulness, but a while
back I bought a remaindered book that contains reproductions of documents
in secretary hand. It shows most cropped to only show the text, not
the entire page, and I believe they are reduced. They are dated
1400-1588. Most are letters and inventories, but pl. 3 A Deed Conveying
Land, pl. 4 Henry VIII Warrant may be of interest.
Elizabethan Handwriting, Giles Dawson, Laetitia Kennedy-Skipton,
Phillimore, 1981 (first published Faber & Faber, 1968)
(The jacket says) This is the classic exposition of the Secretary
hand and the most useful, practical handbook ever written for those
who need to transcribe documents of the period. ... More than
50 carefully chosen representative examples are provided, in
chronological order, each faced with a transcription.
Ranvaig
Sharon Palmer palmer at cis.ohio-state.edu
From: greg at bronze.lcs.mit.edu (Greg Rose)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Scrolls
Date: 5 Jul 1993 17:41:06 -0400
Organization: MIT LCS guest machine
Iain writes:
> I don't suppose some kind soul could post references for where new scribal
> types interested in authenticity more than Books of Hours pages can find
> examples of period "Award of Arms"-type 'scrolls'?
Try the following:
1. Telnet (or otherwise network) into the on-line catalog of
a major research library (Harvard is probably closest for Iain).
2. Conduct a subject search on the following categories:
a. Palaeography (or Paleography);
b. Charters;
c. Diplomatics.
3. Enjoy.
There are some standard works on diplomatics (the study of the formats,
formulae and production of legal documents); you will want to look at
these, trust me, unless you want to try to reinvent the wheel while
puzzling out what the texts of facsimiles of documents mean:
H. Bresslau, _Handbuch der Urkundenlehre fuer Deutschland und Italien_
(Leipzig, 1912, 1931). 2 vols.
M. Giry, _Manuel de diplomatique_ (Paris, 1925). 2 vols.
A. De Bouard, _Manuel de diplomatique francaise et pontificale_ (Paris,
1929, 1948). 2 vols.
H.A. Hall, _A Formula Book of English Official Historical Documents_
(Cambridge, 1908, 1909). 2 vols.
For the early medieval period, A. Bruckner and R. Marichal's _Chartae
Latinae Antiquiores_ series [Olten-Lausanne, 1954-67; Zurich, 1975-],
13 vols., is invaluable, as is E.A. Lowe's _Codices Latini Antiquiores_
series (Oxford, 1934-72), 12 vols. These are facsimiles of every
extant latin charter (Bruckner and Marichal) and latin codex (Lowe)
prior to AD 800, and Lowe's introduction to vol. 2 (which covers
Great Britain and Ireland) is the best thing ever written on early
English and Irish palaeography. The _Manuscrits dates_ series, edited
by members of the Comite international de paleographie, claims to provide
facsimiles of every extant latin document, codex or fragment, from
AD 800-1600 in collections in Austria, Belgium, France, Great Britain,
Holland, Italy, Sweden, and Switzerland. The coverage isn't as broad as is
claimed (the majority of documents from AD 800-1600 have never been
cataloged, much less published), but at 20+ volumes it isn't shabby.
For a bibliography of much of the literature on palaeography and related
fields, see Fr. Leonard Boyle's _Medieval Latin Palaeography: A
Bibliographic Introduction_ (Toronto, 1984) and the bibliography in
Bernard Bischoff's _Latin Palaeography_ (Cambridge, 1990), although
both of these bibliographies are stronger on book hands than secretarial/
notarial hands.
> -Iain, possessed of 'Satiable Curiousity despite his being spread too thin
> already...
You're spread too thin? I just did the Sutton Hoo Biblio for you, and
now you want palaeography/diplomatics ?!? :-) Some people are never
satisfied :-). Maybe in a few months when I have a spare moment...
And don't call me a "kind soul" -- everyone on this net knows I'm a
curmudgeonly old bastard.
Hossein/Greg
From: greg at bronze.lcs.mit.edu (Greg Rose)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Scrolls and Medieval Exemplars
Date: 6 Jul 1993 21:26:44 -0400
Organization: MIT LCS guest machine
Unto the good gentles of the Rialto does Hossein Ali Qomi send
greetings and prayers for the blessings of Allah.
I suppose that one way to boost my productivity is to really piss me
off. My irritation at the discussion of SCA scrolls and medieval
exemplars has been rising and it has reached the point where I'm in
"put up or shut up" mode. Since I've made it clear how dissatisfied
I am with the non-medieval, non-diplomatic paradigms around which SCA
documents are created, I suppose that it is incumbent on me to
suggest other paradigms and point interested parties in their
direction.
The following is a brief bibliography of works on medieval English,
Irish, Welsh, and Scottish diplomata (charters and other official
documents in either Latin or English),including diplomatics,
palaeographic studies, manuals of palaeography and facsimile
editions. In the section on diplomatics a few works pertaining to
non-English documents are cited, because of the influence of
continental models on the development of English diplomata. This
is in no fashion an exhaustive bibliography; it is simply the
product of an afternoon's thought, the sort of thing I'd give, for
example, to one of my students who expressed an interest in doing
some aspect of the palaeography and diplomatics of medieval English
diplomata as a senior thesis or preparing for Master's quals. It
also doesn't cite the quite extensive journal literature.
I shall try in a few weeks (perhaps as late as after Pennsic) to post
a similar bibliography for medieval continental diplomata.
Please, as with the Sutton Hoo Bibliography, do not reprint or
circulate this bibliography without prior permission from the author
(permission can be obtained by email from greg at bronze.lcs.mit.edu).
Hossein/Greg
************************************************************************
A SELECT BIBLIOGRAPHY OF WORKS ON ENGLISH,
IRISH, WELSH, AND SCOTTISH DIPLOMATA
By Gregory F. Rose
c1993, all rights reserved
************************************************************************
DIPLOMATICS, PALAEOGRAPHIC STUDIES, AND MANUALS OF PALAEOGRAPHY
T.A.M. Bishop. _English Caroline Miniscule_. Oxford, 1971.
A. De Bouard. _Manuel de diplomatique francaise et pontificale_. 2
vols. 4 pts. Paris, 1925-52.
H. Bresslau. _Handbuch der Urkundenlehre fuer Deutschland und Italien_.
2 vols. 2nd ed. Leipzig, 1931.
P. Chaplais. _English Medieval Diplomatic Practice_. 2 vols.
London, 1975. [AD 1197-1474]
N. Denholm-Young. _Handwriting in England and Wales_. Cardiff,
1954.
A. Giry. _Manuel de diplomatique_. Paris, 1893 (reprinted, 1925).
H.A. Hall. _A Formula Book of English Official Historical Documents_.
2 vols. Cambridge, 1908-09.
L.C. Hector. _The Handwriting of English Documents_. London, 1966.
C Johnson and H. Jenkinson. _English Court Hand, AD 1066 to 1500_.
2 vols. Oxford, 1915 (reprinted, NY, 1967).
W. Keller. _Angelsaechsische Palaeographie_. 2 vols.
Berlin/Leipzig, 1906; reprinted, NY, 1970-71.
S. Keynes. _The Diplomas of Aethelred 'The Unready' (978-1016): A
Study in Their Use as Historical Evidence_. Cambridge, 1980.
W.M. Lindsay. _Early Welsh Script_. Oxford, 1912.
E.A. Lowe. _English Uncial_. Oxford, 1960.
K.C. Newton. _Medieval Local Records: A Reading Aid_. London, 1971.
M. Prou. _Manuel de paleographie latine et francaise du VIe au XVIIe
siecle_. 4th ed. Paris, 1924.
A. Rycraft. _English Medieval Handwriting_. New York, 1973. [AD
1337-1491]
G.G. Simpson. _Scottish Handwriting, 1150-1650: An Introduction to
the Reading of Documents_. Ediburgh, 1973.
G. Tessier. _Diplomatique royale francaise_. Paris, 1962.
GENERAL FACSIMILE COLLECTIONS
L.R. Dean. _An Index to Facsimiles in the Palaeography Society
Publications_. Princeton, 1914. [index to the Bond and Thompson,
1873-94, and the Thompson, et al., 1903-30 vols. below]
E.A. Bond and E.M. Thompson, eds. _Facsimiles of Manuscripts and
Inscriptions_. 2 series. 4 vols. London, 1873-94, with indices,
1901. [600 BC to AD 1500]
N.R. Ker. _Catalogue of Manuscripts Containing Anglo-Saxon_. Oxford,
1957.
E.M. Thompson, et al., eds. _Facsimiles of Ancient Manuscripts_. 2
series. 4 vols. London, 1903-30. [400 BC to AD 1535]
A.G. Watson, ed. _Catalogue of Dated and Datable Manuscripts c. 700-
1600 in the Department of Manuscripts, the British Library_. 2
pts. London, 1979.
ANGLO-SAXON AND ANGLO-INSULAR FACSIMILES
T.A.M. Bishop and P. Chaplais. _Facsimiles of English Royal Writs to
AD 1100_. Oxford, 1957.
E.A. Bond, ed. _Facsimiles of Ancient Charters in the British
Museum_. 4 vols. London, 1873-78. [AD 624-1023]
A. Bruckner and R. Marichal, eds. _Chartae Latinae Antiquiores_.
Olten/Lausanne, 1954-67. Vols. III (British Museum London) and IV
(Great Britain Without British Museum). [pre-AD 900]
J.T. Gilbert, ed. _Facsimiles of National Manuscripts of Ireland_.
Vol. I (AD 600-1150). Dublin, 1874.
S. Keynes, ed. _Facsimiles of Anglo-Saxon Charters_. Oxford, 1991.
E.A. Lowe, ed. _Codices Latini Antiquiores_. Oxford, 1934-72. Vol.
II (Great Britain and Ireland, 2nd ed., 1972). [pre-AD 900]
W.B. Sanders, ed. _Facsimiles of Anglo-Saxon Manuscripts_. 3 vols.
Southampton, 1867-72.
ANGLO-NORMAN, ANGEVIN AND POITEVIN FACSIMILES
P. Chaplais. _English Royal Documents: King John - Henry IV, 1199-
1461_. Oxford, 1971.
L. Delisle. _Recueil des actes de Henri II roi d'Angleterre et duc
de Normanndie concernant les provinces francaises et les affaires
de France: Atlas_. Paris, 1909.
J.T. Gilbert, ed. _Facsimiles of National Manuscripts of Ireland_.
Vols. II (AD 1150-1300) and III (AD 1300-1550). London, 1878-
1879.
H.E.P. Grieve. _Examples of English Handwriting, 1150-1750_.
Chelmsford, 1959.
R.B. Patterson. _Earldom of Gloucester Charters: The Charters and
Scribes of the Earls and Countesses of Gloucester to AD 1217_.
Oxford, 1973.
H.E. Salter. _Facsimiles of Early Charters in the Oxford Muniment
Rooms_. Oxford, 1929. [AD 1097-1251]
W.B. Sanders, ed. _Facsimiles of National Manuscripts from William
the Conqueror to Queen Anne_. 4 vols. Southampton, 1865-68.
G.F. Warner and H.J. Ellis. _Facsimiles of Royal and Other Charters
in the British Museum: William I - Richard I_. London, 1903. [AD
1070-1198]
TUDOR
G.E. Dawson and L. Kennedy-Skipton. _Elizabethan Handwriting, 1500-
1650_. London/New York, 1966.
A.J. Fairbank and B. Dickens. _The Italic Hand in Tudor Cambridge_.
London, 1962.
J.T. Gilbert, ed. _Facsimiles of National Manuscripts of Ireland_.
Vol. IV.1 (AD 1550-1600). London, 1882.
H. Jenkinson. _The Later Court ahnds in ENglish from the 15th to the
17th Century_. 2 vols. Cambridge, 1927 (reprinted, New York,
1969).
C.B. Judge. _Specimens of Sixteenth-Century English Handwriting_.
Cambridge, Mass., 1935.
A. Rycraft. _Sixteenth and Seventeenth Century Handwriting_. 2
series. York, 1972.
J.I. Whalley. _English Handwriting, 1540-1853: An Illustrated
Survey_. London, 1969.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: cctimar at athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu (Charles the clerk)
Subject: Re: Surprise! Surprise!
Organization: Shire of Glaedenfeld
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 13:30:16 GMT
To all upon the Rialto doth Charles the clerk send his greetings!
I wrote:
> If one is not accepting the award, it
> should be sufficient to strike out the name, leaving the rest of the
> illumination to return to the scribe. The Crown may also wish to cut
> off the part with the royal seals.
I just checked Hector's book on English documents, and he does mention
this as a possible way to delete a passage of a document. It seems
that striking out one passage was not considered to void the document
however.
He lists two methods for doing this. When it is part of a longer
scroll, or a bound book, completely cover the whole document with a
lattice of crossed diagonal lines, and write "VACAT" in the margin.
This makes the document useless to the scribe, however.
A more useful idea is to fold the page in half and make a series of
cuts at a 45 degree angle into the fold. When the page is unfolded
again, it will be marked with a row of herring-bone cuts across the
middle, which was evidently recognized as voiding the document. The
royal seals also were cut off.
This approach seems to be perfect for the purpose, although the victim
of the award may still want their name struck out first. It not only
accomplishes the desired task - voiding the award, while leaving most
of the calligraphy and illumination intact to return to the scribe or
illuminator - but it is a medieval method for accomplishing this that
is no longer used today (so it has a "medieval feel" to it).
--
-- Charles, student, in Glaedenfeld, Meridies
From: willektk at ucbeh.san.uc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Surprise! Surprise!
Date: 9 Jul 93 04:24:11 EDT
Organization: Univ of Cincinnati Academic IT Services
> Tadhg, quoting Lothar:
>> L> The king TORE UP the scroll!!!! Shame on him. He should have TW>
>> L> quietly put it aside and given it back to the scribe/calligrapher that
>> L> made it. God knows they keep little enough of their own work.
>> *sigh* A "scroll" granting an award, once it has been validated (signed or
>> sealed or whatever An Tir uses) is a LEGAL DOCUMENT within the SCA; in
>> order for its effect to be nullified, it must be invalidated. He could
>> have written "VOID" across it and signed it, but I suspect that a scribe
>> would not have been happy with that, either.
>
> How 'bout peeling off the royal and herald's seals? That oughta do it
> without seriously compromising the aesthetic aspects of the document.
> (Yes, I know some kingdoms use a rubber-stamp instead of a wax seal.
> All I can say to that is, they oughtn't.)
Well, I have seen period examples of nullified documents and that was done in a
simple way, cut off the seals (seals were ussually hung from the bottom of the
scroll, not stamped on as we do so) and then the document itself slashed with a
knife a few times.... Very simple and effective because all signs of legalness
about it were thereby removed and noone could prove that it was a Legal
document anymore <grin>
By the way, concerning the seals on scrolls, a suggestion as how to do them
more period. When a scroll was finished, the scrib would then roll up any
extra parchment, put some small slits above them, pass a ribbon through the
slits and made a it so that the roll stayed tight, and then put the seal on the
ribbons (the ribbons were embedded in the seal). The logic behind this is
simple. Because there is now no extra blank parchment, nothing else can be
added to the document without first breaking the seals. You can imagine the
danger of leaving blank space at the bottom on a scroll which has been signed
and sealed. Any dishonest person could then add a few more terms to the treaty
or whatever, and with the seals already there, there would be no way of
disproving it......
Lord Vytas
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: moore at mari.acc.stolaf.edu (Michael Moore/Peregrine the Illuminator)
Subject: Wax Seals
Organization: Baronial Colleges of Nordleigh, SCA
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 17:11:40 GMT
Sigh... make a suggestion...
I have been charged with creating a document with a wax seal, so that
the Stallari of the new Principality of the Middle Kingdom can find out
how it works, if it works, how long it stands up to general use, etc.
I have some information: the book "The Romance of Seals and Engraved
Gems" by Beth Benton Sutherland (Macmillan, N.Y., 1965: Lib. of Cong.
65-10403) shows me various seals and seal rings, and "The Oxford Illustrated
History of England" shows specific documents with seals.
Some people have commented that their kingdoms use wax seals on documents.
_Please_ (as I kneel and plead) could you send me your suggestions, comments,
_Recipes for good wax_, or anything else you can? If someone is an expert,
but does not read the Rialto, can you send me their name/address/etc.?
As it stands, the concept of a slit through the parchment, with a ribbon/
thong through it, with the sealing wax surrounding the two ends of the ribbon,
seems the best idea.
I would love to have more information!
Especially to make things just that much more authentic. Rubber stamps
on period recreations just doesn't make the grade.
I Thank You, and the new Principality Thanks You.
Sincerely, Peregrine the Illuminator
(moore at stolaf.edu)
Michael Moore
1004 S. Union, Northfield MN 55057
(507) 646-3796
From: Tim at f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Wax Seals
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 08:05:39
P> _Please_ (as I kneel and plead) could you send me your
P> suggestions, comments, _Recipes for good wax_, or anything else
P> you can?
Recipe for sealing wax? You can buy good sealing wax commercially;
Dennison #2 is pretty good.
P> As it stands, the concept of a slit through the parchment, with a
P> ribbon/ thong through it, with the sealing wax surrounding the two ends
P> of the ribbon, seems the best idea.
Don't use ribbon, use braided silk or leather cords. Roll up the bottom
edge of the parchment, punch holes through all the layers, and thread the
cord through that. Lay the cord across the reverse matrix, cover with wax,
and stamp with the obverse so that the cord is imbedded in the seal.
Tadhg, Hanaper
ocitor!tim.4229 at rwsys.lonestar.org
From: priest at vaxsar.vassar.edu (Carolyn Priest-Dorman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Woven Seal Tags (was: Re: Wax Seals)
Date: 14 Jul 93 08:21:27 +1000
Unto the Fishyfolk of the Rialto, greeting from Thora Sharptooth!
Here's a subject dear to my heart--something nifty, period, and different to do
with weaving tablets. Tadgh wrote:
> P> As it stands, the concept of a slit through the parchment, with a
> P> ribbon/ thong through it, with the sealing wax surrounding the two ends
> P> of the ribbon, seems the best idea.
>
> Don't use ribbon, use braided silk or leather cords. Roll up the bottom
> edge of the parchment, punch holes through all the layers, and thread the
> cord through that. Lay the cord across the reverse matrix, cover with wax,
> and stamp with the obverse so that the cord is imbedded in the seal.
Another possible material for seal tags is tablet-woven silk. Intact silk seal
tags from the twelfth and thirteenth centuries display a wide range of color,
patterning, and intricacy. I made one once, out of size A sewing silk; it's a
ribbon about a centimeter wide, charged with the badge of the Order of the
Manche. Master Anton is saving it for a special Manche scroll.
*****************************************************************************
Carolyn Priest-Dorman Thora Sharptooth
Poughkeepsie, NY Frosted Hills ("where's that?")
priest at vassar.edu East Kingdom
Gules, three square weaver's tablets in bend Or
*****************************************************************************
From: Tim at f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Scrolls
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1993 01:21:47
Iain Odlin wrote:
> I don't suppose some kind soul could post references for where new
> scribal types interested in authenticity more than Books of Hours pages
> can find examples of period "Award of Arms"-type 'scrolls'?
Hubert Hall, *Studies in English Historical Documents*
" " , *Formula Book of English Historical Documents*
Pierre Chaplais, *English Royal Documents King John--Henry VI 1199-1461*
Arthur Giry, *Manuel de Diplomatique*
Georges Tessier, *Diplomatique Royale Francais*
Harry Bresslau, *Handbuch der Urkundenlehre fuer Deutschland und Italien*
Ludwig Rockinger, *Ueber Formelbuecher vom XII bis zum XVI Jahrhunderts
als rechtsgeschichtliche Quellen*
" " , *Ueber Briefsteller und Formelbucher in Deutschland
waehrend des Mittelalters*
Cesare Paoli, *Diplomatica*
These are the ones I can think of offhand; no doubt there are more recent
works that someone whose academic access is more current than mine could
dig up for us....
Tadhg, Hanaper
ocitor!tim.4229 at rwsys.lonestar.org
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: cav at bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)
Subject: Re: A question on scrolls
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 93 13:16:09 GMT
Greetings unto the folk of the Rialto from Balderik.
Balin asks about semi-transparent Vellum.
Although I've been learning to make vellum, I'm by no
means an expert in it's use (disclaimer).
I believe that the opacity of a vellum would be an indication
of it's quality. Transparency = poor quality, at least in a
manuscript context - some bookbinding vellums are semi-transparent.
I don't think
you *want* to see what's written on the other side.
On the other hand, when making books, you want the leaves as
thin as possible to reduce the bulk of the finished book.
Some of the vellums used in books were almost as thin as
onion-skin paper (I was once allowed to handle a 13th century
bible like this - talk about a humbling experience).
With such thin vellums, a certain degree of translucency is
unavoidable. The thinnest vellums I've made would probably
not show through noticeably unless backlighted (in which case
they show through quite nicely).
I wonder if the 'show through' you see in manuscript photographs
is an artifact of the photographic process. It could be that
under normal lighting, there would be no 'show through' on the
manuscripts in question.
My suggestion would be to visit rare book collections at university
libraries and try to examine as many different pieces of medieval vellum as
you can. When you get a feel for what the vellum you want looks like,
contact suppliers like 'The Bookbinder's Warehouse' (sorry, don't have
the address handy - think they're in New Jersey) and ask for a sample
pack. Hopefully, somebody, somewhere makes a vellum you like.
Keep in mind that vellum is very expensive compared to paper.
If you contact me in a few weeks (going away for a bit), I can send
you some addresses of vellum makers around the world. Some should
be willing to send samples. I can send samples of mine for what it's
worth.
Cheers, Balderik (don't buy or use the stuff myself)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: jliedl at nickel.laurentian.ca
Subject: Re: A question on scrolls
Organization: Laurentian University
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1993 18:25:45 GMT
In article <1993Jul15.131609.265 at bmerh85.bnr.ca>, cav at bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin) writes:
Master Balderick scribed:
>
> I believe that the opacity of a vellum would be an indication
> of it's quality. Transparency = poor quality, at least in a
> manuscript context - some bookbinding vellums are semi-transparent.
. . . some deletions . . .
> I wonder if the 'show through' you see in manuscript photographs
> is an artifact of the photographic process. It could be that
> under normal lighting, there would be no 'show through' on the
> manuscripts in question.
>
I concur with Balderick on this one: I've worked with a lot of late
medieval and early modern vellum and paper, _and_ on the microfilms of
the same. It is my experience that the stronger lighting required to
get a clear, sharp image washes out the paper and shows exaggerated
bleed-through. While fine paper & vellum have some transparency in
any case, photography greatly exaggerates it. (Having compare a microfilm
sidy-by-side with the real thing, I can guarantee it!)
Ancarett Nankivellis
Janice Liedl
Laurentian University, Canada
JLIEDL at NICKEL.LAURENTIAN.CA
From: Tim at f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Proof of Awards & Scrolls: A Problem
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1993 18:47:38
TA> Hmmm... You know, a Kingdom passport sounds intriguing. Were passports
TA> period, or are the exclusively modern?
Similar documents were done in period. During my tenure as Star Principal
Herald I had several occasions to issue passports to people travelling or
moving out of Kingdom; we have a fairly standardized formula for such
things. Below is the text of the one that I issued to Baron Master Robin
of Gilwell when he went up to the Midrealm to demonstrate Ansteorran
light-weapons fighting:
==========================================================================
Fra Tadhg Liath of Duncairn Star Principal Herald of Ams to all unto whom
these presents shall have come giveth greeting.
KNOW YE that the bearer of these letters ROBIN OF GILWELL Lion of
Ansteorra Master of the Order of the Pelican Baron of the Court of
Ansteorra Companion of the Order of the White Scarf of Ansteorra Companion
of the Order of the Star of Merit of Ansteorra Companion of the Order of
the Iris of Merit of Ansteorra Companion of the Order of the Oak of the
Steppes upon whom has been conferred the Award of the Sable Thistle of
Ansteorra in the field of Bardcraft and upon whom has been conferred the
Award of the Sable Falcons of Ansteorra sometime Baron of the Steppes and
sometime Queen's Champion to Her late Majesty Sieglinde II of blessed
memory upon whom has been conferred the Queen's Gauntlet of Ansteorra by
Her late Majesty Sieglinde II of blessed memory as aforesaid is a lawfully
warranted Officer of Arms of the Kingdom of Ansteorra bearing the title
RAPIER HERALD being of the rank of Herald in the Ansteorran College of
Heralds and a member of the Militant Arm thereof
WHEREFORE do we pray that all and singular of whatever estate or degree
unto whom he shall have come shall freely honestly and liberally render
unto him all due honor and precedence and such assistance succour and
comfort as shall be meet and according to his station and the esteem and
affection in which he is held by our dread sovereign lords Rowan and
Hector by right of arms Queen and King of Ansteorra in whose service he
does labor.
Tadhg, Star
Data per manum meam apud Baroniam Gradium ii die Julii regno tertio
Rowanis et Hectoris anno Societatis xxvi et anno Domini mxmi.
===========================================================================
Such things can add a little flavor to the soup.
Tadhg, Hanaper
ocitor!tim.4229 at rwsys.lonestar.org
From: dmb at waynesworld.ucsd.edu (Doug Brownell)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Calligraphy
Date: 24 Aug 1993 00:26:05 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego
Greetings unto the Rialto and unto Joakim Ruud from Thomas
Brownwell in Calafia, Caid.
The standard book on Calligraphy that I use as a starting
point is Marc Drogin's Medieval Calligraphy, publisheed by
Dover press, about $10. It is in print, and may even be at
your local bookstore. Marc outlines 10 basic hands, and
gives *tons* of photographs of documents in enough detail to
get all the interesting bits from the hands and their
variations.
If you want to do some library hunting, the subject 'calligraphy'
is usually useless (as you've found out). Try the category
'paleography' or 'palaeography;, the study of 'old writing'.
Paleography studies everything from the development of our Latin
alphabet from the Phoenecians and the Greeks, to the use of
abbreviations in 13'th C English hands. I have found some very
interesting books (I was looking for information on abbreviations
in Latin, and found some wonderful examples, plus a book that
outlined *all* the common ones). A current volume that is in print
is by Bischoff, Cambridge press (took 2 months to get, but was only
$25), titled Latin Paleography.
Good searchings unto you.
Thomas Brownwell, calligrapher, herald, dancer,...
dmb at waynesworld.ucsd.edu
From: salley at niktow.canisius.edu (David Salley)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Tips Wanted
Date: 19 Nov 93 13:29:09 GMT
Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo NY. 14208
Caitrin Gordon, Barony of Delftwood, Principality of Aethelmearc
aka (Barbara C. French) writes:
> 2. Arts
> Calligraphy and illumination:
> For repeating borders, such as knotwork, you can save time and increase
> precision by drawing one section of the border and using a light table
> or a window to trace subsequent sections of the border (this isn't
> cheating -- you drew it once!).
Rhydderich Hael Calligraphers' Guild version:
Draw your knot, Celtic beast, whathaveyou, once. Cover with tracing
paper and trace. Place the tracing paper onto a scrap piece of plain white
paper WITH THE PENCIL DRAWN SIDE DOWN. Go over the outline of the mirror
image figure with a pencil. Place the tracing paper back on the scroll
original side up. Position your tracing where you want it. Go over the
outline again with a pencil. The pressure of the pencil on top will push
enough graphite from the bottom of the tracing paper onto the scroll to
form a light pencil drawing of the original figure. You don't need an
expensive light table, you don't need to draw vertically against a window,
and best of all, by turning the tracing back over, you can get mirror images
as well as exact copies. Have fun!
- Dagonell
SCA Persona : Lord Dagonell Collingwood of Emerald Lake, CSC, CK, CTr
Habitat : East Kingdom, AEthelmearc Principality, Rhydderich Hael Barony
Internet : salley at niktow.cs.canisius.edu
USnail-net : David P. Salley, 136 Shepard Street, Buffalo, New York 14212-2029
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: bcfrench at mothra.syr.edu (Barbara C. French)
Subject: Re: Illumination
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 93 19:59:40 EST
WISH at uriacc.uri.EDU (Peter Rose) writes:
>I'm playing at doing some illumunation, using a metal quill-type pen,
>and using regular artists oil paint thinned with turpentine as pigment,
>and I'm having trouble getting consistant coverage. Sometimes I get
>Thin runny color, and sometimes I get dark sludge, that won't feed
>off the pen. Am I using completely the wrong materials, or am I just
>not mixing the turpentine in aggressively enough. *SHOULD* this work?
Switch to tube watercolors or goache. Oil paints are a poor choice for
working on paper. Oils are meant for canvas, not paper. Plus, you will get
"haloing" around oil pigments.
Watercolors and goache are more "period". The real scribes used various
types of temperas.
I'm not sure what you're saying . . . Are you using the pens to do the
illumination? Most scribes paint the illumination using brushes, and do
the calligraphy with pens. There are good water-based inks to use in quill
pens (personally, I use a Rotring fountain pen . . . I prefer a fountain
pen because there are fewer factors I need to control).
Likewise, oil-based inks are not a good choice for paper because the ink
will halo. This means that you will get a shiny, rainbow-colored oil slick
around your work, kind of like what happens when you spill ink on a puddle
of water.
What I have used for the past seven years for calligraphy and illumination:
Rotring fountain pen, size 1.9, with Rotring ink cartridges
Tube watercolors and gouache, usually Grumbacher and Windsor-Newton
Fine black disposable graphics pens for outlining
You will probably found a great deal more success with more appropriate
materials.
...Cait
Caitrin Gordon, Delftwood, Aethelmearc
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: kharding at lamar.ColoState.EDU (Karol Harding)
Subject: Re: Illumination
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1993 17:23:31 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO 80523
PERIOD ILLUMINATION:
Actually, what we usually do (which Pendragon recommends) is to
put a bit of gum arabic with watercolors and put it on your dip
pen. works great. Mix to the consistency of thin cream, thick
enough to work and thin enough to flow.
The other advantage is that this technique enables you to have
red colors that are reasonably colorfast, and don't "feather"
like a lot of red inks.
We have begun teaching new scribes and are forbidding them to
use cartridge pens for this reason; the flexibility of what you
can use for "ink" as well as the joy of pressure point calligraphy.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: bcfrench at mothra.syr.edu (Barbara C. French)
Subject: Re: Illumination
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 93 10:08:14 EST
In article <Dec06.172331.53592 at yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> kharding at lamar.ColoState.EDU (Karol Harding) writes:
>
>The other advantage is that this technique enables you to have
>red colors that are reasonably colorfast, and don't "feather"
>like a lot of red inks.
It depends on the ink, but I agree: many red inks either feather or look
kind of pinky. I don't use red ink much (I just paint the reds I need).
One of the problems with red paint is that it can get pretty streaky. If
you mix just a touch of white paint in it (just enough to cover the tip of
a small brush) you can almost completely eliminate streaking. You don't
have to use enough white to change the color.
>We have begun teaching new scribes and are forbidding them to
>use cartridge pens for this reason; the flexibility of what you
>can use for "ink" as well as the joy of pressure point calligraphy.
Here's where I disagree. I have used a cartridge pen for years for
calligraphy. I strongly believe there is more than one way to do
illumination, and scribes ought to be given the flexibility to discover
what works best for them. Personally, I cannot use dip pens; I am a scribe
with arthritic hands (arthritic thumb -- a curse for someone who's only
26!) and get horrid cramps from the position of holding a pen. I do not
have so much problem with a brush. The cartridge pen allows me to work
faster, get more calligraphy done and eliminates a lot of problems (such
as ink vomiting all over your page). I use a very high-quality cartridge
pen, a Rotring Art Pen (used by a large portion of scribes I know,
including several Laurels).
I think it's good to expose new scribes to a way you think is good, but as
to "forbidding" them to use a different style of working -- I am not sure
what I think of that. I also think it's good to show scribes different
ways of working. What works best for you is not necessarily what works
best for everyone.
...Cait
Caitrin Gordon, Delftwood, Aethelmearc
From: jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Period Black Ink/Dye
Date: 8 Mar 94 15:43:41
Organization: STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, UK.
Mistress Gwennis passed me a recipe for black ink which I tried out
last weekend at a craft session. It worked so well I thought someone
else out there might like to try it. She got the recipe from a Dover
translation of a medieval text by Cenini (sp?)
We took a cup of oak galls and a cup of water, then added a teaspoon
of iron salts (ferrous sulphate). To make writing ink add a few
spoonfulls of gum arabic (I'm told that arrowroot would work aswell,
but we didn't try that).
The ink looks light grey when it goes on, but as it oxidises it slowly
turns to black. It's quite fun watching the ink develop before your
eyes, it's quite different from modern inks which just sit there
staying the same colour.
If you leave out the gum arabic/arrowroot you have a dye. Heat silk in
it and you get a dense bluish black. On wool it gives a very very dark
brown colour, it looks black beside a black T shirt, but had a
definite brownish tinge when held next to ythe dyed silk.
The oak galls are a concentrated source of tannin. If you can't get
oak galls we produced a similar effect by boiling three teabags in a
cup of water for about quarter of an hour. It wasn't quite as good an
ink as the stuff from the oak galls, but it improved overnight and
gave a reasonable black. The oak gall ink also improved overnight even
though we had strained out the oak galls by passing it through a
coarse cloth. I suppose there was still fine sediment in the pot that
was causing the tannin concentration to go up? After leaving overnight
the ink went onto paper as a dark grey colour, and turned as black as
india ink within minutes.
I would like to try the same again with a different source of Iron
since a bottle of Iron sulphate crytals doesn't look very period.
Iron filings or rust might work as a source of Iron to blacken the
ink, as vegetable tanned leather turns black when exposed to iron
rivets and fittings. I suspect the iron is reacting with the tannin in
the leather to produce the same black compound.
The oak gall ink dyes wood black, so I'm planning on using it to
paint in the details on my Viking tent, as the original from the
Gokstad ship had painted details on it.
We used quill pens to write with the ink, and sometimes found the ink
went on a little grey as it ran out. This meant that we had to dip
slightly more often than when using india ink, but it was worth it for
the fun of watching the letters change colour as we wrote.
Jennifer/Rannveik
Vanaheim Vikings
From: katieroz at aol.com (KatieRoz)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: German scroll
Date: 24 Jun 1994 13:12:05 -0400
In response to a previous message on producing a late period German
scroll......In my personal collection, I have a manual on 15th
century German illumination. This book details various pigments,
designs and executions. The title is "The Gottingen Model Book- a
facsimile edition and translation of a 15th century Illuminators'
manual". The ISBN number is 0-8262-0261-6 and the Library of
Congress card catalog number is 78-62289. This is the latest period
book that I could find and if you have any problem getting a copy,
please let me know and we can try and work something out. It is a
very informative book and well worth having.
From: gray at ibis.cs.umass.edu (Lyle Gray)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Guache and fixative?
Date: 30 Aug 1994 14:47:22 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Univ. of Mass., Amherst, MA
SandraDodd (sandradodd at aol.com) wrote:
: To all illuminators from Mistress AElflaed of Duckford (a musician)
: I'm posting this for my apprentice, Dwynwen. Any suggestions would be
: welcome! If you could post them here for the benefit of the general
: readership, or e-mail to TLBougher at aol.com I would be grateful.
: >In the Middle Kingdom Scribes' Handbook and in the Complete Anachronist
: >book on C&I, a recommended paint to use is gouache. My question is, is
: >there something to be done to the work after it's done? Since gouache
: >becomes very reworkable when it gets wet, what kind of preventative
: >measure can be taken to assure that sweaty palms, mist or rain do not
: >spoil a scroll? Most of the things I've read say to stay away from the
: >waterproof inks and paints.
My lady and I use a spray fixitive with the brand name Krylon on scrolls where
we have used gouache (which is all of them...). This will help reduce
smudging from sweaty palms. However, I don't recommend that the scroll be
exposed to rain, regardless -- we provide scroll folders whenever we can.
Lyle FitzWilliam
------------------------------------------------------ NON ANIMAM CONTINE
Lyle H. Gray Internet (personal): gray at cs.umass.edu
Quodata Corporation Phone: (203) 728-6777, FAX: (203) 247-0249
From: Elaine_Crittenden at dxpressway.com (Elaine Crittenden)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Leather & Ink?
Date: 13 Mar 1997 23:41:19 GMT
Organization: Digital Xpressway - Dallas, TX
Given your short time span and your experience to calligraph the poem for your
deadline, I would go with paper, too. Deer hides are too thick for good
caliber late period pieces, anyway, and the thinner vellums need stretching
to avoid buckling. The thinnest is "uterine vellum," made from the skin of
unborn calves. In buying vellum offcuts, you can wind up with some really
thick pieces for practice or "parchment size" (glue) manufacture. you will
also have to specify what kind of "finish" you want and state the purpose,
since you wouldn't want to buy a bookbinder's thickness for a scribe's needs.
I have some sheets of paper(used for printing press work) dating from the
mid-fifteen hundreds in England. It is not very slick, nor very white. It is
fairly thin, but is opaque. Most of what I have is not laid paper, but more
of a "wove" type. The doodling in the margins is done in a watery,
transparent brownish ink--done sometime between 1569 and the present--your
guess is as good as mine.
Quills (from the 1st five feathers--the primaries) on a wingtip(right wings
for "leftie" scribes and vice versa) are a bitch to "dutch" if they have not
naturally aged. I would suggest you read the Donald Jackson chapter in The
Calligrapher's Handbook. It is excellent and precise, although I was taught
by George Yanagita.
If you do get to use true vellum, you will also need fine sandpaper.
(Careful! you don't want suede from too vigorous sanding--and do your sanding
outdoors. Trust me.) You will also need powdered sandarac (a Middle eastern
tree's dried sap) for the "flesh side," especially, since it's greasier than
the "hair side."
When you make a mistake lettering, just use a convexly curved scalpel to
scrape the mistake off, but have a gentle touch, please. Too, you may want to
burnish the roughed up fibers and sandarac it again before writing again.
Paper is so much more painless, for this stage in your project. I preferred
using Crane's resume paper for a minature book I scribed. For that kind of
very tiny work (I'm talking italic for lettering a book at less than 1/20th
of an inch for the minuscules), I use a specially converted pointed pen,
honed to a tiny broad edge point on crocus cloth. I found it did not throw up
fibers between the tines of the nib as often as the other13 papers I
"auditioned."
Good luck! ...Elaine Crittenden (Dallas TX) aka Lete bithe Spring
(Steppes, Ansteorra)
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 09:10:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Carol at Small Churl Books <scbooks at neca.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Grimbald Gospels
>The Grimbald Gospels are 11th century English (from Winchester); the
illumination combines knotwork and foliage (in the one photo I've seen) and
I would love to research it further. Help?
Without a copy at hand and thus working from memory.... There are examples
of gospels from Winchester in _Golden Age of English Manuscript Painting
1200-1500_ published by Braziller. It is in print. I'd suggest looking
there to see if it has examples from that particular gospel.
From: "M. Zoe Holbrooks" <zoeholbr at u.washington.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Apprentice Illuminator's Workboke
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 11:29:20 -0700
Organization: University of Washington
My apologies for broadcasting this notice so widely, but my
alternate ISP crashed and my notes on who asked about this
went with it. :{
Apprentice Illuminator's Workboke is being reprinted and
will be available from Pastiche at major An Tir events, or
by mail c/o Foggy Bell, 3634 NE 19th, Portland, OR 97212.
For more information and/or to reserve a copy from this
print run, email me directly.
My thanks for your attention,
Asahla Telerion
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 01:14:05 -0600
From: rockwallshire at webtv.net (Shared Account)
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Scribal mailing List
Crawling around on the Web tonight, I found an address for a
newly-opened, SCA-specific scribal mailing list. As we have been having
a scribal discussion on this list recently, I thought I'd let folks here
know about what I found. :)
To subscribe, send an email to:
majordomo at castle.org
with the body of the message stating:
subscribe scribes
You'll get a confirmation code back, and once you return that code to
majordomo, you're on!
I hope that this information will be of interest and help to you.
Your servant, lowly Merouda, writing thru the Rockwall account
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 08:38:58 -0500
From: Erik & Karen Dutton <edutton at worldnet.att.net>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Sinister scribes
Naomi & Peter FRYER wrote:
> I am in need of information I have a budding Lefthanded scribe in my
> possesion(ha haaa)
As a southpaw who has done a *little* calligraphy, I have two
suggestions that may be of use:
1) If he blocks out the entire scroll in advance, then he can letter
backwards, from right to left, which will help to alleviate some of the
traditional smudging problems.
2) Arabic/Islamic calligraphy is a godsend for scribes like us - and
while there is not a large call for it, it can make a huge difference
when creating a scroll for someone who has a Moorish or Spanish persona,
or whose persona history includes a Crusade. It also makes neat and
unusual border illumination, when you're tired of drawing little bitty
flowers.
--
Rhodri ap Hywel
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 12:06:45 -0600
From: theodelinda at webtv.net (linda webb)
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Sinister scribes
Thanks for letting us know where to find the nibs--we've had a lefty or
two here--of course, I guess in period, you just learned to cut a pen
nib to suit yourself. By the way, there is a surviving book copied by
St. Thomas Aquinas, who was left-handed--the monk in charge of books at
that abbey wrote (I think on the title page) something like " this
book was copied by our beloved brother in Christ, Thomas, Regrettably,
it is illegible" Having seen a photograph of one of the pages, I have
to agree! I don't know if he didn't bother to adjest the nib of his
pen, or was just trying to write as fast as he thought--I've read that
he could keep four secretaries busy at once. At least nowadays
left-handers can get some things adjusted to suit them, and we don't try
to break them of it as children. Theodelinda
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 21:32:11 -0500 (EST)
From: Carol Thomas <scbooks at neca.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Sinister scribes
Although neither left-handed nor a scribe, I liked _Basics of Left-Handed
Calligraphy_ by Shepherd, publisher Prentice, now long out of print - try
ILL. If I remember correctly, it had different calligraphy methods based on
how your lefty holds the pen to write: curled over from the top, down below
the letters, etc.
There is also useful infomation in _Left Handed Calligraphy_ from Dover
Press. It is in print. This topic, I think, proves that there is a book
for EVERYTHING!
Lady Carllein
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 20:55:07 -0700
From: Twcs <no1home at encompass.net>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Paper
> I have been using Bristol board with a vellum finish but it
> sucks. Really, it sucks the ink in leaving tendrals. It also
> buckles when it gets too wet.
Slaine,
I use Strathmore brand bristol board, Series 500, vellum finish.
It's sold in sheets and not in a pad. Get the highest ply you can find.
2-ply is too flimsy, and will warp when wet. 3-ply is ok. I've done
a lot of scrolls on 3-ply. Personally, I use 4-ply whenever I can get it,
though more often than not, 4-ply is usually only available in the
Series 400 papers. If you want to do dependent wax seals, you have
to use 4-ply. Mind you, all of this advice is applicable only to the
Strathmore brand papers, towards which I have a strong bias.
About the ink problem: I'm not sure what to say. What brand of ink
are you using, and what kind of pen? The wrong kind of ink and/or
pen can also cause the problem you describe, especially if the ink is
too thin or the pen nib is damaged. Your technique might be a
contributing factor too, since going too slow, pressing too hard, and/or
overloading the pen with ink can screw things up.
Personally, I wouldn't pounce a paper, but since several other folks
have done so (according to their posts), I guess it must be ok. The
reasons I would shy away from sandarac or modern pounce are: 1) a
good art paper suitable for gouache should already be sized correctly,
and 2) over-sizing the paper with a pounce can prevent the gouache
from sticking to the paper (this can happen to vellum too, as I have
discovered the hard way). Modern pounce, by the way, is a
synthetic elastomer, similar to rubber, and it's used with modern drafting
inks which are much thinner than the waterproof india inks we use on
scrolls. It's great stuff if you're drafting with modern inks on modern
drafting "vellums" (which have minimum tooth and lots of sizing). It's
not so hot (IMHO) with the more-viscous india inks used on high-tooth
papers, like a Strathmore vellum-finish bristol: it's too hard to remove
from the paper, especially the 3- and 4-plys.
Anyway, that's my opinion on the matter.
ttfn, Therasia (aka Twcs, aka Catie, aka Hey You ;-)
Date: 1 Feb 1998 19:43:15 -0800
From: "Marisa Herzog" <marisa_herzog at macmail.ucsc.edu>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Sinister scribes
>Is there some out there who has sucessfully taught a sinister scribe
that <snip>
Haven't taught anybody who is sinister, but a mundane artist friend recommend
investing in an "artist's bridge", one of those clear acrylic supports that
holds you hand and arm off the paper...
-brid
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:01:38 -0800
From: Twcs <no1home at encompass.net>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Period hebrew calligraphy
Irene wrote:
> I am working on a piece of 10th C hebrew calligraphy and Illumination to
> enter into Midwinter Arts and Sciences here in Meridies. Is there anyone
> else out there who is or has done any work in this area? I would be
> interested in chatting with others who have or are presently working in
> this area.
Yes, I've been working on Hebrew hands for a while. I'm probably wierd,
but I find it easiest to callig with the paper sideways, writing from bottem
to top (Hebrew is a right to left alaphabet). My source for medieval Hebrew
alaphabets: _Jewish Life in the Middle Ages_, Metzger and Metzger, Alpine
Fine Arts Ltd., NY, c.1982; ISBN 0-933516-57-6. This book has a huge
selection of pages from Jewish medieval manuscripts, mostly in the early
and high gothic styles, from all over western Europe. Track this book down
-it's worth the time to find. (It's probably out of print, so I'd start looking
for a copy in your nearest university library; or do a search with the used book
sellers.) Good luck, and remember, written medieval Hebrew is like Welsh:
there no #$%&*!#!! vowels! ;-)
Twcs (5 days til PhD defense...ahg!!!!!!)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 09:55:44 -0500
From: Wendy Colbert <WendyC at vivid.net>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Period hebrew calligraphy
>>> Secondly, Yes, Hebrew, both modern & anciet has vowels: hay,
>>> vav,yud,eyin, and sometimes, sort-of....aleph.
>>> Phillipa
>
>> Good luck, and remember, written medieval Hebrew is like Welsh:
>> there no #$%&*!#!! vowels! ;-)
>> Twcs (5 days til PhD defense...ahg!!!!!!)
>
>Actually, Twcs is right -- a lot of formal written Hebrew, even to today,
>does not indicate the vowels. Torahs are written without vowels.
But I am not doing a formal piece and I do need to write the vowels.
>Just in case you thought it was hard enough reading Hebrew going backwards,
>with accents, silent and spoken vowels (depending), AND two different
>pronunciation sets.......
Ah, but hebrew does have vowels, to give them their transliterations_
Patach, Kubutz,Chirik,Segol,Kamatz,Tzeirei,Cholam,Shuruk,Sheva,Chataf
Patach,Chataf Segol, Chataf Kamatz and Kamatz Katan.
Since the piece I am working from is a primer for children (a first
teaching book, as it were) it does include the vowels. And a kettubah from
the same era and region also shows vowels.
The vowels in this primer are Kamatz Katan, Patach,Segol,
Tzeirei,Chirik,Cholam (in the form without the vav),Kubutz and Shuruk
Irene
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 00:10:39 EST
From: <BastetKat at aol.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Illumination questions
Lilith at retliv.com writes:
> I have been trying to learn some illumination basics.... (If a
> particular title would be of best interests for me to read, please let me
> know!)
I can send you a list of books I used in my last class. It's a Word
file.
> After all that reading I still have some questions which come to mind for
> me....how large should the total work be (as in 'paper' size)? I am
> currently using Windsor & Newton Designers Gouache; are these alright or
> must I figure out how to create my own paints and pigments? Does anyone
> recommend a good non-bleeding black outlining ink?
Windsor & Newton Designer is a good brand, and gouache is what I (and all
the callig/illum laurels I've spoken to) recommend. I am currently
experimenting with creating my own pigments, but don't think that is necessary
for a beginner. It's something you might want to consider when you feel very
comfortable with the whole process.
Always, always follow this order of work: calligraphy, gold leaf (if
any), THEN illuminating. Don't ever succumb to any temptation to do the
painting first. The reason is, you can fix a problem in painting fairly
easily. If you mess up the calligraphy, there is very little you can do.
(there are a few things, but they can be more trouble that they're worth.)
Use a "kneaded" eraser, or the white kind that comes in sticks.
Paper size is entirely up to you. Many period books were fairly small
(around the size of the average paperback today.) but huge books using entire
cow skins did exist. I have a friend who owns a sheet from a period choral
book, and it is about 20 inches by 36 inches. My advice is to leave a large
margin around all sides. To make to margin look visually identical, you must
make the bottom margin about 1 1/2 times the width of the others. If you make
them all the same, the text will look like it is "falling". Please do not use
yellow ("parchment" colored) paper! Vellum yellows with age, but starts out
only slightly off white. You can get away with cheap calligraphy paper for
now, but you will eventually want to move on to high quality paper, and
eventually real vellum. When you move on to good paper, look for "hot press"
(smooth surface, as opposed to "cold" or "warm", which have nubbly surfaces
for watercolor painting), "acid free", and "100% rag". Test your paper,
whatever you pick, first! Cheap paper can make your ink bleed, and get
warped by the paint.
I have had good luck with Pelikan brand ink. True india inks are
pigmented (as opposed to dyes, which are transparent), and contain shellac.
The shellac rises to the top as the ink dries, and makes the ink mostly
waterproof. Gold inks made of bits of metal suspended in a carrier imitate
"shell gold" well. You must shake these inks very well!
> I'm not real sure how picky to be for real competition and so -any- help you
> can give me to nudge me in the right direction would be wonderful.
>
> Lilith
I'm not sure how picky you should be, either. All kingdoms seem to have
different standards as to judging. If you haven't had the opportunity to see
an average entry in your kingdom before, you might want to ask the
callig/illum people in your kingdom. Good luck! I will be happy to answer
any questions you might have.
Judith
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 03:17:36 -0600
From: Roberta R Comstock <froggestow at juno.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Illumination questions
I've seen actual period manuscripts as small as 3 x 5 inches and as large
as about 18 X 30 inches. The page size is pretty much up to you. If
you want it to look like a book page, be sure to leave adequate margins,
with extra space on the 'bound' side of the page (left side of a recto,
right side of a verso).
The thing many beginners seem to have trouble with is getting their
calligraphy hand to be consistent with their illumination style. For
example, using late period calligraphy with early period borders,
sometimes mixing cultures as well. Gothic French will be entirely
different from Visigothic Spanish, early Hiberno-Saxon, Renaissance
Italian and so on.
Look at as many examples of different styles as you can find. Sometimes
you can find them in art history books or illustrated 'coffee table'
books such as those published by Time-Life. Pay attention to details
such as spacing of letters and lines of text, whether illuminated
capitals are set into the text block or 'hung' out in the margin,
relative sizes of margins, placement of ornamental borders, whether there
is a text-related illustration.
When I began, I started doing illuminations on pieces that others had
lettered. I eventually took up calligraphy because I couldn't get the
scribes I knew to do the layouts I wanted to illuminate or the hands
consistent with the type of illuminations I liked to do. Have been away
from C&I for some time now - other interests (plus carpal tunnel
syndrome) edged it out.
Good Luck! and don't forget to have fun!
Hertha
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:47:59 -0500
From: "Helen Schultz (KHvS)" <meistern at netusa1.net>
To: <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Re: Stained glass and celtic knotwork
This is slightly off the subject of stained glass, but in reference to the
comment by Slaine "I'm not the sort of person who goes ballistic when
knotwork/interlace patterns show up in later period pieces..." I thought
I'd slip in with a piece of illumination trivia. The Italians and Flemish
of the early 15th Century were using their rendition of knotwork in their
illuminations... and got almost as intricate as the original Irish
illuminators.
KHvS
(a calligrapher & illuminator)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 13:14:29 EST
From: <BastetKat at aol.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Manuscript copies?
J. Neal Books, and Paper & Ink books also sell facsimiles of medieval
manuscripts; their prices are usually good. They also both carry a wide
range of calligraphy supplies.
<A HREF="http://www.johnnealbooks.com/";>John Neal, Bookseller</A>
<A HREF="http://www.paperinkbooks.com/";>Paper & Ink Books</A>
Judith
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 19:50:13 -0500
From: rmhowe <magnusm at ncsu.edu>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu, medieval-leather at egroups.com,
Anna.Troy at bibks.uu.se
Subject: Parchment Supplies and Scribal Links
http://www.ipass.net/~lindap/scribelinks.html
Parchment and Scribal Links to the Kingdoms.
Subject: Scribes Web Page Update
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 22:11:40 -0500
From: "Linda Pancrazio" <LindaP at IPass.net>
To: "Merry Rose" <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org>,
"Scribe List" <Scribes at atlantia.sca.org>
Greetings to the Rose and to the Quill and Scroll,
I'm writing to let you all know about some of the updates and additions to
the Atlantian Scribes page.
http://scribe.atlantia.sca.org
Most of the on-line scribes handbook has been updated to include color
badges and navigation buttons. It's "pretty" up though the Orders of Merit.
(page 22 if you have the printed version handy.) We've also added texts for
all the new awards.
We added a Scrivener Royal page to provide information about the position &
the upcoming competition at Spring Crown and there's a link to some samples
of our current scrivener's beautiful work.
Genevieve d'Evreux
p.s. for those scribes on the Merry Rose but not the Atlantian Scribes
list - The Quill and Scroll (scribes at atlantia.sca.org) is a list created
especially for Atlantian Scribes to talk about Atlantian Scribe Stuff. The
volume is quite low - we're using it mostly for general announcements and
Atlantian specific questions (although general questions are welcome as
well). There is also an interkingdom scribes list based in Caid
(scribes at castle.org) with a high volume and tons of good information. Links
to subscription information for both of these lists can be found - you
guessed it - on the Atlantian Scribes page. :)
Linda Pancrazio | SCA: Lady Genevieve d'Evreux
Selma NC, USA | Elvegast, Windmasters' Hill, Atlantia
lindap at ipass.net | http://www.ipass.net/~lindap/scribelinks.html
From: Celestria LeDragon [celestria_ledragon at yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 7:29 PM
To: bryn-gwlad at ansteorra.org
Subject: [Bryn-gwlad] Medieval Writing link
I found this site about the different tools and documents used.
http://medievalwriting.50megs.com/
Celestria
From: rachel luce <rachel_luce1975 at yahoo.com>
Date: January 9, 2005 10:48:50 PM CST
To: Ansteorra <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>, Barony of Raven's Fort <ravensfort at ansteorra.org>
Cc: Subject: [Ansteorra] Renaissance handwriting
Greetings!-
Insomnia sometimes turns up some wonderful
websites. This one has to do with palaeography in the
english rennaisance.
http://www.english.cam.ac.uk/ceres/ehoc/
Thought I'd share it with everyone. For those of you
who are into caliigraphy it isn't exactly calligraphy
or illumination but it does have a lot of images
scanned directly from period documents.
-Xanthe
<the end>