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herb-mixes-msg - 12/14/06


Period herb mixes.


NOTE: See also the files: spice-mixes-msg, murri-msg. herbs-msg, herb-uses-msg, spreads-msg, sauces-msg, za-atar-msg, p-herbals-msg, gums-resins-msg.





This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I  have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.


This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org


I  have done  a limited amount  of  editing. Messages having to do  with separate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs  were removed to save space and remove clutter.


The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make  no claims  as  to the accuracy  of  the information  given by the individual authors.


Please  respect the time  and  efforts of  those who have written  these messages. The  copyright status  of these messages  is  unclear at this time. If  information  is  published  from  these  messages, please give credit to the originator(s).


Thank you,

    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                          Stefan at florilegium.org



Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 19:42:52 -0500

From: johnna holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] herb mixtures


Barbara Wheaton has one that's from Liure

fort excellent de cuysine 1555.


It's in Savoring the Past.


Johnna Holloway  Johnnae llyn Lewis


Huette von Ahrens wrote:

> One of my apprentices has asked me if there are

> period culinary herb mixtures, like "Bouquet

> garni" or "Italian herbs" that you will find in

> modern stores.


> The only one that I know of is Vertgay.  Do any

> of you know of any other documentable herb

> mixtures?


> I am not asking about Powdre Douce or Powdre

> Fort, whice are spice mixtures.  I would like

> those based on herbs, mostly.


> Huette



Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 13:15:31 -0800 (PST)

From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] herb mixtures

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org


I found a mention of it in Cindy Renfrew's



vertgay (French) =3D Bright green (the literal

meaning is 'gay green', referring to a mixture of

green herbs and saffron used to

colour a dish. Also 'yellowish green' or 'clear

green' (von Wartburg). (Viandier)


As you can see, the term is used in Viandier and

in Menagier de Paris.  Thomas Scully talks about

it in his book on Viandier.


>From Menagier:



et un pou de frommage et de sauge et bien pou de

saffren, pain tremp=E9, et deffaites de pur=E9e de

pois ou d'eaue boulie, broyez et coulez: et aiez

broy=E9 gingembre deffait de vin, et mettez

boulir; puis mettez du frommage dedens et des

oeufs poch=E9s en eaue, et soit vert gay. - Item,

aucuns n'y mettent point de pain, mais en lieu de

pain convient lart.


>From Viandier:


BROUET VERTGAY. Cuisiez tel grain comme vous

vouldrez en vin et en eaue et en boullon de beuf,

et de lart pour luy donner goust, puis convient

bien frioler vostre grain; puis affinez

gingenbre, saffren, persil, ung pou de sauge qui

veult, et des moyeulx d'oeufz tous cruz, et du

pain tout

pass=E9 parmy l'estamine, deffait de vostre

boullon; et i fault ung pou de verjuz et de bon

froumage qui veult.


UNE FROIDE SAUGE. Prenez vostre poulaille et la

mettez cuire en eaue, puis la mettez reffroidier,

et puis broyez gingenbre, fleur de canelle,

grainne et girofle, sans couller, puis

broyez pain, persil, et sauge, et ung pou de

saffren en la verdeur, qui veult, pour estre

vertgay, et le coulez par l'estamine; et aucuns y

coullent des moyeulx d'oeufz cuis durs, et

deffaictes de vinaigre, et despeciez vostre

poulaille par moitti=E9e, par quartiers, ou par

membres, et mettez par platz, et la saulce

dessus. Et, se il y a eu des oeufs durs,

despeciez par morceaulx au coustel et non mie =E0

la main.




Mettez cuire en vin et en eaue, et puis broyez

pain, persil, saffren bien pou, en la verdeur

pour le faire vertgay, et le destrempez de vostre

boullon, et puis broiez gingembre deffait

de vostre verjus, et tout boullez ensemble; et y

met-on de bon frommage despeci=E9 par bons

loppinetz quarrez, qui veult.



Prenez persil et ung pou de sauge et bien pou de

saffren en la verdeur et pain tremp=E9, et

deffaictes de pur=E9e ou d'eaue boullie, et puis

gingenbre deffait de vin, et mettez boullir, puis

mettez le frommage dedans et les oeufz, quant ilz

seront pochez en eaue; et soit lyant vertgay; et

aucuns n'y mettent point de pain, mais y mettent

layt d'amendes.


The consistant ingredients are parsley and

saffron, but there are other green herbs used,

such as sage.


Johnnae previously mentioned that Barbara Wheaton

has an herb mixture in her book "Savoring the

Past".  It is from a French cookbook printed in

1555.  Unfortunately, while Wheaton does quote

the original recipe, she doesn't translate it.  I


post the recipe here for you tomorrow, when I

have the book in front of me.





From: "Nancy Kiel" <nancy_kiel at hotmail.com>

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] herb mixtures

Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 16:53:32 -0500


Scully's translation of Chiquart describes a bouquet garni as sage, parsley,

hyssop and marjoram.


Nancy Kiel



Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 14:38:43 -0600

From: Sue Clemenger <mooncat at in-tch.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Maire's herb blend....(relatively long)

To: "SCA Cooks' List" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


Some time ago (beginning of August? Sometime in July?), I posted

something about my herb garden, and a period recipe for an herb blend

that I'd hoped to make sometime soon.  Someone (Stefan?) asked for the

recipe/source if I ever happened to find my copy.  Well, I did, and I

figured I'd post it this afternoon, since I'm pretty much stuck inside,

trying to not inhale the smoke out there.....

I do not have the actual book from which I took the recipe and

redaction, so I can't give the page number, but according to my notes,

it's from _Savoring the Past_ by Barbara Ketcham Wheaton (sp? my

handwriting sucks....)  The recipe itself is French.  My notes give the

original source as "Livre fort excellent de coysine (1555), ff 228r-v."

   I'll type the original, first, and then give Barbara's redaction.


"Prenes persil effueille deux poignees mariolaine effueillee deux

pugnees et demje saulge demi poignee ysope autant sariette autant

sarpollet une poignee soulcye une poigness.  Et quant cest pour faire

farce aulains y metient soulcye et peude Basilicque.  Elle seruent a

tous potaigeaet les fault fair seicher enuiron la sainct Jehan  



Wheaton's redaction:

"1 c. parsley

1/4 c. sage

1/4 c. winter savory

1/4 c. wild thyme

1 and 1/4 c. marjoram

1/4 c. hyssop

1/2 c. pot marigold (calendula) petals

2 T basil (optional)


On or about June 24th, pick the unsprayed herbs and pluck the leaves

from the stems.  Pluck the outer petals of the pot marigolds.  A soft

pastry brush is useful in dealing with the flower petals.

Dry the herbs in the sun of indoors fairly near a gentle fan.  Measure,

mix, and store in a tightly closed container in a cool, dark, dry place.

The 'soulcye' in the original recipe is _Calendula officinalis_, the pot

marigold.  It served in the Middle Ages and even later as a cheap

substitute for saffron, since it was (and is) easily grown in the home

garden.  Our common marigolds, _Tagetes patula_ and _T. erecta_, were

introduced into European gardens at the end of the sixteenth century

from Mexico and are known, perversely, as French and African Marigolds."


I should note that those are Ketcham-Wheaton's assertions about pot

marigolds being used in the Middle Ages as a saffron substitute (not

something I've personally run across, but then, I'm not the food

research fiend that some of *you* are).  I don't find it unreasonable,

though, since Calendula petals make a pretty good natural dye (shades of

yellow), and are food-safe.  I also did not see anything in her book

about what recipes this might have been used with, although her original

source (not one with which I'm familiar, I'm afraid) might give more

details or references.


I've been able to grow all of the ingredients in my garden and herb

pots, and I'm in a part of the US that has some pretty severe weather

(hotter than Hades in the summer, nasty-cold in the winter, and

respectably low on the humidity scale), so I'd think that most of us

could probably do the same.  My Calendula, though, didn't start blooming

until late July.  And I've found that you can't just wait until you need

to deadhead the buggers (as with, say, the other kinds of marigolds,

which I also grow, and am saving for a dyeing project), as the petals

will fall off all on their own.  So next year, I plan to grow a whole

bunch of them!  And some hyssop and savory!





Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 08:38:34 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Maire's herb blend....(relatively long)

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


I did an article a couple years back that included a number of these.


French and Italian Herb and Spice Mixtures.



This was written for a general audience and I suggested that people

might want to experiment with them while grilling during the summer.

I thought that those not into medieval cookery might give them a try

that way.




Sue Clemenger wrote:

> Some time ago (beginning of August? Sometime in July?), I posted

> something about my herb garden, and a period recipe for an herb blend

> that I'd hoped to make sometime soon.  Someone (Stefan?) asked for the

> recipe/source if I ever happened to find my copy. snipped



Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 12:50:18 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Maire's herb blend....(relatively long)

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


I suppose I ought to mention for clarity sake that Penzey's various

spice and herb blends start with one teaspoon per pound of meat.

Sprinkle or rub on the meat and cook or roast  as desired. Those

Instructions ought to work for these mixtures too.




<the end>

Formatting copyright © Mark S. Harris (THLord Stefan li Rous).
All other copyrights are property of the original article and message authors.

Comments to the Editor: stefan at florilegium.org