p-hygiene-msg - 6/26/04
Period bathing, hygiene, teeth brushing, menstrual care.
NOTE: See also the files: p-dental-care-msg, bathing-msg, p-privies-msg, perfumes-msg, cosmetics-msg, soap-msg, soapmaking-msg, shaving-msg, Roman-hygiene-msg, Mouthwash-art, Handcream-art.
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NOTICE -
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.
Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).
Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: jliedl at nickel.laurentian.ca
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: The old bathing saw...
Date: 7 Oct 93 14:51:51 -0500
Organization: Laurentian University
Greetings from Ancarett Nankivellis!
Some recent posts have resurrected that old myth, that people didn't
bathe in the Middle Ages. FYI:
"Clean, smooth, brilliant skin was the result of repeated baths and
much diligent care. . . . By the late Middle Ages monastic moralists
had ceased to warn about the dangers of bathing. Bathing and steaming
were so widespread at all levels of society that it no longer seemed
appropriate to question the practice of washing the body frequently
from head to toe. . . . the Dominican Felix Faber enthusiastically
approved of bodily cleanliness and stressed the importance of regular
changes of body linen. In the minds of many people frequent washing
may have assumed the same spiritual value as frequent confession."
- - -
Georges Duby & Philippe Braunstein, "The Emergence of the Individual"
in _A History of Private Life_ Volume II: _Revelations of the Medieval
World_ ed. Georges Duby, Cambridge & London: Belknap Press, 1988
ISBN0674399765.
While I will concede that washing went out of fashion in the sixteenth
century, considered by some fashionables as a medical threat, and was
somewhat replaced by perfuming, don't confuse, as many do, the decline
of _public_ baths with a decline in _washing_. Many cited passages
of medieval moralizing against bathing was aimed at stopping the use
of public baths, some of which were mixed-gender affairs, and the social
use of the bath.
Ancarett Nankivellis
Janice Liedl
Laurentian University, Canada
JLIEDL at NICKEL.LAURENTIAN.CA
From: fnklshtn at axp2.acf.nyu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Thought Experiment
Date: 15 Oct 1993 04:09:17 GMT
Organization: New York University, NY, NY
>Let me say another one: Dysetary (From not washing your hands after visiting
>the privy) Handwashing is a modern custom that has a MAJOR impact on the >spread of disease.
Lies! Dirty Lies!
Read "The Knight of the Cart" by Chretien de Troyes (12th century):
Lancelot was welcomed into the house they were getting ready for dinner but,
as soon as they *washed their hands* some knight came who wanted to fight
with Lancelot...
Long fight...
Lancelot comes back, they help him out of his armour, everyone *washes their
hands* again and they sit to dinner.
Peace!
Nahum
From: jliedl at nickel.laurentian.ca
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: why not bathe?
Date: 1 Nov 93 09:54:31 -0500
Organization: Laurentian University
Greetings on All Saints' Day from Ancarett Nankivellis!
Some recent speculations have been posted on the idea that
bathing fell out of favour in late period.
Some have argued to the contrary, citing woodcuts of bathers
as evidence to the contrary.
Well, historians of custom and manner don't contend that nobody
bathed in the Renaissance, but that it simply fell out of
favour. Medical reasons argued that water was a dangerous
agent for immersion--the fear was that its penetrative power
would carry disease everywhere. Thus, the fashion arose of
personal dry cleaning. Dirt was wiped off and perfumed away,
rather than washing. Underwear (body linen) was changed
frequently, and anyone who appeared with soiled cuffs and
collars was suspect. People still "bathed" but only infrequently
(consider Queen Elizabeth I's famous boast on the matter)--
when thoroughly dirty or for leisure and relaxation.
Please remember that above comments apply chiefly to the
aspiring artisan, merchant and gentle classes who would hear
and be interested in "current medical wisdom". I make no
claims about bathing practices and beliefs amongst the
"great unwashed"! (Tee hee, I couldn't resist the pun!)
(Note: many of the bathing woodcuts served the same purpose
in period as do our "girlie" magazines today--visual titillation
and entertainment. By 1500, public bathing was a byword for
immorality.)
Bathing did not make a comeback as a regular part of hygiene
until about 1740. But people were cautioned to not look at
their body while bathing--heaven knows what that might lead to!
Ancarett Nankivellis
Janice Liedl
Laurentian University, Canada
JLIEDL at NICKEL.LAURENTIAN.CA
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: tbarnes at silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes)
Subject: Re: why not bathe?
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 16:30:57 GMT
mittle at watson.ibm.com (Arval d'Espas Nord) writes:
>Does anyone know more precisely when bathing fell out of fashion in western
>Europe? As a matter of pure speculation: Did it happen in the wake of the
>Black Plague?
Greetings from Lothar,
As far as I know the Plagues of 1348-52, 1356, etc. didn't have
much effect on bathing either way. The physicians of the time were in
disagreement about what caused the plague and advocated many remedies.
Popular theories were that the disease was spread by the "bad air" of
cities, swamps, and moist places, bad water, or divine retribution.
Guy de Chuliac and the other Paris physicians promulgated a
remedy against the plague that consisted of mostly dietary restrictions,
and instructions about how to sleep and excercise.
The pope at Avignon spent the plague sitting between 2 fires -
presumably to "purify" the "bad humors" in the air.
Other people reacted to the plague, by praying, flagellating
themselves in penance, or attacking Jews and "outsiders" who were
suspected of either starting the disease, or spreading it.
People in the 14th c. DID bath. There are illuminations of 14th
c. people in bath tubs (usually in connection with an Authurian romance
or the story of David and Bathsheba, admittedly, but there are also some
contemporary literary references to bathing.) I suspect that, at least
for the nobility, in clement weather, that 14th c. people bathed about
as often as modern Europeans - e.g. every 2-3 days, or more often if the
weather or activity demanded it. I don't have any proof for this though.
So, the summary is that I don't think that the plague influenced
people's bathing habits one way or another.
I have heard that bathing declined for several reasons in the
15th to 18th century:
a) increasingly limited fuel for fires due to deforestation.
b) effects of the Reformation and the Counter-Reformation.
c) custom and fashion.
d) changes in medical practice.
Lothar \|/
0
.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: dillon at world.std.com (John T Dillon)
Subject: Bathing, period sources of documentation
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1993 21:33:31 GMT
Contrary to the belief that bathing was not common in the 15th and 16th
centuries, I offer up the following woodcuts and paintings as documentation
that it did indeed occur.
Reference
The History of Sex
------------------
Reay Tannahill
Steinn and Day
p#280
Fifteenth Century bath house, from a French manuscript of
Valerius Maxinus. Staedtisches Bibliothek, Leipzig.
Multiple two person baths seperated by curtains with a table of food
placed in front of each tub.
p#281
"The baths at [?] Leuk," by Hans Bock the Elder 1597
Kunstmuseum Basel, Inv.8.7
A large rock sided pool with submerged seats with about 14 people (half
men half women) seated or standing in waist deep water. Food is placed
on a table in the middle of a pool. Two couples are flirting/fondling
while the others are eating, playing musical instruments or reading.
Period woodcuts of various armies,
Quite often you will see a stream/pond being used for bathing, mixed
sexes, especially for Landsknecht armies encampments.
There are also a large number of period laws regarding bath houses/brothels.
If the activity was not going on, why put a law into affect concerning it.
I know I have more woodcuts in my reference collection, I will post them
as I find them.
John McGuire
From: shick at europa.eng.gtefsd.com (Steve Hick)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Bathing, period sources of documentation
Date: 31 Oct 1993 13:30:56 GMT
Organization: GTE GSC FSD
dillon at world.std.com (John T Dillon) wrote:
> Contrary to the belief that bathing was not common in the 15th and 16th
> centuries, I offer up the following woodcuts and paintings as documentation
> that it did indeed occur.
There is a complete section of 'swimming' as well as other sports (fencing,
wrestling, flag twirling, vaulting,horsemanship, etc..) from the 15th c to
the 18th c in Bascetta's Sport e giuochi
Bascetta, Carlo ; Sport e giuochi : trattati e scritti dal XV al XVIII
secolo a cura di Carlo Bascetta; Milano : Il Polifilo, 1978
Among the treasures in these books is part of Vadi's ca 1492 fencing manual
(MS) which is comparable to Flos Duellatorum, all of a MS version of Pietro
Monte's La Lotta from De dignoscendis hominibus (published 1492) and
portions of the flag waving of Alfieri from his La picca e la bandiera (
1641).
I didn't record the info on the swimming or vaulting (or other stuff)
'cause that's outside my primary area of research.
ST
From: djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Rags
Date: 17 Nov 1993 22:46:59 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Chandra L. Morgan-Henley <ck290 at cleveland.Freenet.Edu> wrote:
>Would fabric scraps have been used in period for "feminine
>hygiene"?
Not only in period, but up into the beginning of this century. There's
a passage in (I think) Simone de Beauvoir about a young woman washing
out her menstrual rags and hanging them up (in the bathroom? someplace)
to dry, and her father coming in and raising hell because the sight
of them offended his sensibilities. There *are* things to be said
for modern times, when such matters can be discussed on the Internet
and there's at least a good chance that its male readers will say
"Gee, I didn't know that" rather than "yuck".
I would use only linen and ... waitaminnit, let me make it clear.
If I were still of reproductive age and still living in the late
twentieth century, I would use the materials that come from the
drugstore. Like Petrog, I believe in authenticity up to the point
beyond which lie public health problems. But if I _had_ to use rags
for such a purpose, I'd pick out the linen and cotton ones, which
are absorbent, rather than the synthetic ones, which are less so.
Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West UC Berkeley
Argent, a cross forme'e sable djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu
From: djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt)
To: Mark S. Harris
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Rags
Date: 3 Dec 1993
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Yes, linen is the most absorbent, with cotton running a close second;
other vegetable fibers trailing; I'm not sure how absorbent animal
fibers like silk or wool would be. Yes, silk would be more expensive,
but you understand we're talking about _rags_. Even so, I don't think I would want woollen pads in that part of my anatomy.
dcm
From: dnb105 at psu.edu (Ferret)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: The Top 10 Anti-Vampire Plans for Pennsic (was Re: Vampires)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 08:46:17 GMT
Organization: Penn State University
Dottie <macdj at delphi.com> writes:
>Ok, ya'll are picking on the vampires but really
>how do you feel about ELF EARS!??? THEY drive me CRAZY at Pennsic!
>Lets get rid of the elf ears too!
>*I can handle anything (well almost) execpet Elf ears*
What bugs me is people who wear clothes in the water. In Rubens' (1577-
1640) "The Bathers" the aquarian participants are nude. Any further
documentaion on this subject?
-Frettchen von Rheinpfalz-
From: gfrose at cotton (Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Questions about Medival Underclothes
Date: 16 Jul 1996 13:34:26 GMT
Greetings, all, from Katerine Rountre.
: This is totally un-documented but I have heard or was under the
: assumption (don't really know which) that when a lady was experiencing
: "THE CURSE" she isolated herself in her chambers or confined herself
: within her domicile until said curse had been lifted.
Were this true, there would be a huge record of it. As one single
example, the rules of all the cloistered orders of women would need
allowance for every woman to be so isolated a full quarter of the time,
arrangements for getting food to her since she would not be siting
at board, arrangements for others to carry on her work (especially
in the cases of, for instance, the abbess, the cellaress, and so on);
and on and on.
Does anyone really believe that Elizabeth the First vanished for
one week out of four, and nobodya mentioned it?
<Sigh>
Look at a modern sanitary pad. Make it one of (say) four layers of
linen with the center padded with lint, so that it is both absorbent
and washable (and reusable). Make it a little longer, and a little
wider at the ends. Add strings to the four quarters. Put it between
your legs, and tie the strings around your hips.
This solution took me a minute flat to come up with. Do people
honestly believe that what I can think of in a minute flat,
medieval women couldn't come up with in _literally_ a thousand
years?
Does anyone _really_ believe that a modern sanitary napkin is so
very different from a historic bandage that it provides the
unthinkable key to this construction?
Does anyone out there still believe that menstruation was a problem
that medieval women could not overcome without drastically altering
either their normal clothing or their normal lifestyle?
Geesh.
-- Katerine/Terry
From: Lissa & Eric McCollum <ericmc at alliance.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Questions about Medival Underclothes
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 17:20:08 -0400
Organization: Alliance Network, Inc. (GRR MI) (616-774-3010)
Gary J. Wolverton wrote:
> This is totally un-documented but I have heard or was under the
> assumption (don't really know which) that when a lady was experiencing
> "THE CURSE" she isolated herself in her chambers or confined herself
> within her domicile until said curse had been lifted.
I don't know one way or another, but that doesn't really make sense. I
mean, that is a great way to get a week off every month, but what if
that wasn't possible? Field workers, women on pilgrimage and the like.
I can't imagine that every woman in our time frame spent a week each month
lying on absorbant sheets somewhere. They had too much to do.
> As far as underwear -per-se- (this tidbit is semi-documented, I just
> don't remember which book of mine it's in) some gentlefolk, both men
> and women, wore a loincloth of sorts that I am assuming was of the
> wrap and tuck variety. Unless of course you happened to be higher up
> in the food chain and had available a pin or brooch of sorts. I'll try
> and find the documentation and post it if this thread is still around
> when I find it.
I was leafing through the book "A History of Private Life", and came across
a wood cut from 1574. (p. 586) It shows the 'master of the baths', dressed in what looks suspiciously like bikini bottoms, tied on the side. (I know they're
not speedos, but still...) I can't tell for sure, but I think the woman seated
behind him is wearing something similar. Now, this is a bathing situation, and
not specifically underwear, but I would guess that something like this could
have been used.
Gwendolen Wold
From: sclark at chass.utoronto.ca (Susan Carroll-Clark)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Questions about Medival Underclothes
Date: 18 Jul 1996 17:31:02 -0400
Organization: University of Toronto -- EPAS
Greetings!
> Has anyone else found references to anything remotely like this?
I've looked at bishops' visitation records to monasteries and nunneries,
as well as confessors' handbooks and basic theology manuals, and it's
never come up. The two references to menstruating women in the text
I'm editing involve whether they can take the Eucharist (yes, but if
they wish to abstain, this is regarded as good) and whether it's OK
to seek the "marital debt" when one's wife is menstruating (no).
I'll check my sources for more detail.
Cheers!
Nicolaa de Bracton
sclark at chass.utoronto.ca
From: moondrgn at bga.com (Chris and Elisabeth Zakes)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Questions about Medival Underclothes
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 04:47:52 GMT
Organization: Real/Time Communications Internet customer posting
Kim Pollard <kim at inna.net> wrote:
>On 16 Jul 1996, Terry Nutter wrote:
>> Greetings, all, from Katerine Rountre.
>>
>> Someone whose name I have lost writes:
>>
>> : This is totally un-documented but I have heard or was under the
>> : assumption (don't really know which) that when a lady was experiencing
>> : "THE CURSE" she isolated herself in her chambers or confined herself
>> : within her domicile until said curse had been lifted.
(massive snippage)
>I would think evidence of this should be located in church documents. The
>church, after all, set the rules for so much of the peasant class's
>conduct that something as common as "the curse" <- also possibly a church
>term?) would surely be mentioned in at least one text involving the
>conduct of women. Does anyone out there know where one might find church
>documents that could be researched (in the US)? Has anyone else found
>references to anything remotely like this?
Philip Stubbes writes in "The Anatomy of Abuses" in 1583:
"King Pirrus sent rich attire to the matrons of Rome, who abhorred
them as menstruous clouts." "Clout" is a variation on "cloth", as in
"breechclout" or "dishclout". Therefore, presumably such things were
being used, at least in England, by 1583.
-Tivar Moondragon
C and E Zakes
Tivar Moondragon (Patience and Persistence)
and Aethelyan of Moondragon (Decadence is its own reward)
moondrgn at bga.com
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 14:18:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rooscc at aol.com
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: underthings thread
Don't forget that cloth can be used in ways that don't
count as *clothing*--i.e., constructed garments.
A menstrual clout would be one example, but it may
well be that women bound their breasts for certain
activities or to accommodate certain fashions.
References to the monthly use of rags--which were
washed and reused--appear in modern literature up
until very recently, but I have not found a medieval
reference per se. I have found curious mention of
the use of herbs as a "bed" for women--this is in
Albert for example--in a context that makes me
suspect that the Latin term should not be taken
literally (that is, not the "bed" a person sleeps on). The
herbs in question would not be absorbent but may
indicate a deodorant or hygiene consideration. [My Latin
just isn't strong enough to figure some of this out.]
I also wonder if references to the "weakness" of women
refers to menstrual cycles specifically. I read a polemic
about women as university teachers which rested solely
on this weakness, while admitting full competency in
the subject matter to a particular woman scholar. A good
bet for finding more on this would be rules for convents,
but I don't know of any right off.
Alysoun
Middle
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 10:44:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rooscc at aol.com
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: re: woman's wear
Gerard in the late sixteenth discusses the use of herbs
as vaginal suppositories and in describing how to make the thing makes
statements like "as every woman knows."
This implies the use of tampons, probably for menstrual
flow, but possibly as a form of douche or birth control.
Alysoun
Middle
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 18:39:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rooscc at aol.com
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: woman's wear & Gerard
I didn't mean to imply that the herbs *were* the tampon,
but that the reference seemed to imply than tampons
were known.
On my 34th try (how many plants are in that book?), I
found an example under Willow herb:
"The same taken in a mother suppository of wooll or
cotton, bound up with threads (as the manner thereof
is well known to women) stayeth the inordinate
flux or overmuch flowing of women's terms."
Gerard is giving a medical use, but doesn't the
parenthetical clause sound like he is referring to
a common practice?
Alysoun
Middle
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 13:34:35 GMT
From: "Kirsten Garner at Archaeology" <KGARNER at hsy1.ssc.ed.ac.uk>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Period underthings...
Seems like this is my source day!
I've come across a book and I was wondering if anyone knew anything
about it.
Rowland, B, 1981. Medieval Woman's Guide to Health. (MS Sloane 2463)
Croom Helm, London.
Has anyone heard anything about this book? I thought it sounded
possibly relevant to the discussion about "women's problems" and
suchlike. I've not been able to get a copy directly from the library
here and was just wondering if it would be worth ordering on ILL.
Thanks...Julian
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 22:38:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rooscc at aol.com
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: more woman's wear & Gerard
Lady Carllein wrote:
>>Am wondering if what they are describing is a tampon
as we understand it, or something more like our sanitary
pads<<
Could be, but he calls it a suppository. Under Gumm
Succory he gives another description for a definitely
inserted item, but doesn't make the same sort of reference
to common practice: "and put into a linnen cloath and a
pessarie made thereof like a finger and put up, bringeth
down the terms in young Wenches and such like."
The index has nearly 150 references to herbs used
to provoke or stay menses (called women's flowers
or terms) and I don't have the time just now to check
them all. One reason there are so many is that herbs
which affect fluids were assumed to also affect menses,
that includes expectorants, diuretics, etc. Sorting out
specifics is a little more medical than I usually work.
I have been curious about the number of food plants
included for provoking terms--I don't know if this was
just the fluid association or whether there was a
real phenomenon at work. Menses would halt in cases
of malnutrition--a tonic that upped the nutritional
intake would restore the cycle. Many of Gerard's
prescriptions are inherited--not a contemporary concern.
(For example all the cures for scorpion bites: how
many 16th century Englishmen suffered that?) Could
this concern with restoring menses be an indication
that medieval women were more in danger of malnutrition
than men? Early skeletal remains have indicated a
significiant size difference in the genders.
Another possibility is that it is related to abortion,
and some of the plants are noted for uterine reactions,
but not mustard greens, radishes, etc.
I haven't explored this area--sometimes ignorance is
bliss.
Alysoun
Middle
From: Glenda Robinson <glendar at antispam.compassnet.com.au>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: shaving
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 15:38:29 +1000
Organization: Flamberge Computer Services
Mark Cote wrote:
> When did it become "the right thing to do",
> culturally, for European women to start shaving?
Althoughs shaving is relatively new, depilating is rather older. The
Romans depilated regularly. I'm not sure if they just used the plucking
method or a wax or similar as well. The hairless bodies helped the
oil-and-strigil cleaning method used. Imagine trying to scrape the oil
off the hairy parts of the body with a strigil. Ouch.
Glenda.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: shaving
From: jongleur at netcon.net.au (Martin Hungerford)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 07:58:54 +1000
Ghazallah <ghazallah at aol.com> wrote:
> I have heard that shaving was a way for ...err... women of purchasable
> virtues... to keep lice-free and to prove it to customers. I was told this
> started in the 1800s in the french island-colonies, along with those
> horrible wide leather belt things which are so prevalent (and so wrong) in
> our Society.
> Ghazallah al-Badriyyah
um... there is a reference to shaving the genital region of men and
women from the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem. The source is the memoirs of
Usamah (sp?) I found it in Gabrielli's "Arab Chroniclers of the
Crusades".
Martin o' Lyos
From: paximus at aol.com (PAXIMUS)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: shaving
Date: 20 Aug 1997 00:35:43 GMT
Deloris Booker wrote:
>But I remember reading somewhere that Turkish women shaved all their
pubic hair off, and then dyed the area with henna to amuse their
husbands.<<
I don't know about the Henna part but the shaving is very true for Turkish
women of the Harems. There is a fantastic book called "Harems" (cant
remember the author right now) that gives recipes for the process of
removing the hair.
In the book the main reason given is cleanliness and that having an
unshaven body is just dirty and socially unacceptable.
By the way the author of whose name I will find, also wrote a book called"
Taking the waters" about the history of Bathing also a great book.
Don Giulio d'Medici
G.M. Cavalieri Dell"Ordine de Santo Stefano
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 19:14:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Karen <tyrca at yahoo.com>
Subject: SC - Clean Vikings -- OT
Good Gentles,
Previously on Cooks list . . . (was it only yesterday? I've
gotten 4 digests since then!!)
I commented to someone that the "dirty viking" image was not
specifically correct because of their love of steam baths and
washing.
His Grace gently asked why I believed such a notion, as he knew
of no mention of "steam lodges" in the sagas, and I found myself
in a quandry (as I often do when making idle comments in his
presence). After spending several hours on the internet looking
at web pages and sources, I did what any frustrated Dane would
do, I sent a frantic e-mail to the Viking Answer Lady, Mistress
Gunnora, from here in Ansteorra. For those slightly interested,
I have included her reply as :
>>>>>>>>
Start with my article on Viking Grooming
(http://www.realtime.net/~gunnora/hairstyl.htm)
There are certainly terms for bath-house and steam-bathing in
Old Norse. The usual term is "baking" in the bath-house, which
strongly implies sauna-like conditions. Iceland has bath-houses
using volcanic hot springs that have been in continuous use
since the Settlement. Now where is this documented? *sigh* Take
a look at the article I referenced above and let me know if this
gives you the proper ammo. I recall that I had a tough time
finding specific references to the bath-house when I wrote it to
start with... ::GUNNORA::
<<<<<<<<
And from the article found at the URL listed above:
>>>>>>>>
Although the popular image of the people of the Viking Age is
one of wild-haired, dirty savages, this is a false perception.
In reality, the Vikings took care with their personal grooming,
bathing, and hairstyling.
Perhaps the most telling comment comes from the pen of English
cleric John of Wallingford, prior of St. Fridswides, who
complained bitterly that the Viking Age men of the Danelaw
combed their hair, took a bath on Saturday, and changed their
woolen garments frequently, and that they performed these
un-Christian and heathen acts in an attempt to seduce high-born
English women (1):
It is reported in the chronicle attributed to John of
Wallingford that the Danes, thanks to their habit of combing
their hair every day, of bathing every Saturday and regularly
changing their clothes, were able to undermine the virtue of
married women and even seduce the daughters of nobles to be
their mistresses (2).
(1)Gwyn Jones. A History of the Vikings. Oxford: Oxford
University Press. 1968. p. 177.
(2) Ian Riddler. Two Late Saxon Combs from the Longmarket
Excavations
<http://www.hillside.co.uk/arch/longmarket/comb.html>.
Canterbury's Archaeology 1989/1990, The 14th Annual Report of
Canterbury Archaeological Trust Ltd. Accessed 5/15/99.
And since I have no other salient obligatory food comment, other
than the fact that at a Viking Feast, one would certainly be
assured of hand-washing on the part of the kitchen staff, as
would a feast from the Noble Arabs.
Steamily,
Tyrca
=====
Lady Tyrca Ivarsdottir
AoA, OPN, ASTA, oleander
Canton of Lindenwood
(all sorts of places in and around Ft. Worth & Dallas, TX)
Kingdom of Ansteorra
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 04:24:09 -0000
From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nanna_R=F6gnvaldard=F3ttir?=" <nannar at isholf.is>
Subject: Re: SC - Clean Vikings -- OT
>Iceland has bath-houses
>using volcanic hot springs that have been in continuous use
>since the Settlement. Now where is this documented? *sigh*
Huh? Is the lady saying that we have bath-houses that have been in
continuous use since the Settlement? If so, I'd dearly love directions to
find one of them. If she means that the hot springs have been used for
bathing since the Settlement, well, some of them were used then, and are
used now, but I'm not too sure about the continuous use. For washing and
sometimes cooking, yes. For bathing - well ...
She also says, in the article referred to:
>In Iceland where natural hot springs are common, the naturally heated
>water was incorporated into the bath-house.
This could easily be understood as if most farms had a bath-house heated
with water from hot springs. I'm not saying there weren't any but offhand, I
can't recall any such bath-house mentioned in the Sagas. Sure, a house was
probably built around Snorralaug in Reykholt and a few other hot springs but
that was not the norm. There was a bath-house (or bathroom, probably a sauna
of sorts) at most farms but it was usually heated by firewood. Later, when
wood became scarce, the bathroom was the only heated room in the farmhouse
and people began sleeping there. Later still, almost all fuel (mostly peat
and dung, at that point) had to be used for cooking and people stopped
bathing, more or less - but the "bathroom" kept its name (bašstofa). For
centuries, the main sleeping/living/dining/working room of the Icelandic
farm went by the name of bathroom. My mother was born in a "bašstofa" in
1928.
Yes, the old Icelanders probably bathed a lot, as did the Vikings (saturday
is still called "laugardagur" (bath day) in Icelandic). And they probably
used natural hot springs when available. But relatively few Icelandic farms
have a hot spring of suitable temperature close by the farmhouse, so these
naturally heated bath-houses couldn't have been that common, really.
Nanna
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 07:29:24 +0200
From: UlfR <parlei at algonet.se>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Questions about cleanliness and food safety
at Viking Era event
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Sharon Gordon <gordonse at one.net> wrote 2003.09.11:
> The question has arisen, for Real Viking I and other events where we
> wish to be highly authentic, what steps can one take to assure proper
> hygiene (especially in the kitchen) with period materials and
> techniques?
Quote a bit.
* I assume you have ample access to basins (e.g. cut up
barrels or purpose made equivalents work fine).
* The key is warm/hot water and soap, and some sort of scrubbing tool
for things that need them, none of which is beyond viking age
technology (I *think* soap was available, but don't quote me on that).
You can get detergent type effects from some plants, but I have no idea
if this is even remotely documentable.
* Making scrubbing brushes from thin birch twigs. A bit like the
traditional birch whisks, but cut down. Works quite well. For pot
scrubber use Equisetum hyemale (Rough Horsetail,
http://linnaeus.nrm.se/flora/orm/equiseta/equis/equihye.html), which
works _very_ well.
> Obviously, a soap can be made from fat and ashes, and if you have greasy
> dishes, you don't need extra fat. Can this be documented in the
> Viking Age?
Don't use pure lye, make soap and use that. While it is true that soap
is made from fat and lye, which was traditionally obtained from ashes,
the devil is in the details (in extreme brief you need to mix the proper
proportions of fat and lye, heat them and allow to stand for several
weeks). Too much lye and it will hurt your skin.
Remember that lye is nasty (e.g. if someone gets it in their eyes), so
be carefull when using it.
> Is there a period hand-lotion to use after this
> harsh-on-the-skin substance? Sand gets suggested as well.
Period (to the viking age) as in documentable, or as in "quite
possible"? For the latter try using suitable fats (sheeps tallow,
lanolin, etc), beeswax, etc as the base for a cream.
/UlfR
--
UlfR Ketilson ulfr at hunter-gatherer.org
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 21:00:29 -0500
From: Cynthia Virtue <cvirtue at thibault.org>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Female underwear in the 12th century
Of course, the TRH stuff is 300 years later than the lady's inquiry.
Some think that nothing was worn, even for menstruation, that the
shift/chemise took care of it. This site which discusses it, may be of
interest: http://www.mum.org/whatwore.htm
--
Cynthia Virtue and/or
Cynthia du Pr Argent
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:56:33 -0500
From: Cynthia Virtue <cvirtue at thibault.org>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: A source! Re: Female underwear in the 12th century
I finally had time to look in several of my more reliable books; texts
in translation, from a medieval women's health book to some clothing
books and so on. The health book described some amazing and fearful
things, from pessaries to tampons for medicine delivery (usually in the
case of too little or too much blood, (but not for absorbing menstrual
flow.) Most books, even about the lives of women in particular, say
little on underwear and nothing on what to do with *normal* monthly
"purgations" or "flowers" (their terms).
However, I did find the following about underclothes.
_Women's Lives in Medieval Europe: A Sourcebook_ edited by Emille Amt.
"66. The Ancrene Riwle (13th c.)" (A guide for Ancoresses.) on p. 260
A woman may well enough wear drawers of haircloth very well tied, with
the strapples <footnote: coverings for the lower leg, made of bands
wrapped around the leg> reaching down to her feet, laced tightly.
Now, since it specifies haircloth, wearing drawers may just be another
way of self-abasement, as they wouldn't be comfortable. Then again,
maybe they were normal, if they weren't made of haircloth. No way to
tell; but it's all I've found so far.
--
Cynthia Virtue and/or
Cynthia du Pr Argent
<the end>