lyres-msg – 2/18/08
Medieval lyres and reconstructions.
NOTE: See also the files: instruments-msg, guitar-art, music-bib, music-lnks, song-sources-msg, Entrtng-n-SCA-art, drums-msg, harps-msg, p-stories-msg.
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This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
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Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: PRIEST at vaxsar.vassar.EDU (CAROLYN PRIEST-DORMAN)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Sutton Hoo Lyre
Date: 14 Mar 1993 11:59:33 -0500
Unto the Fishyfolk of the Rialto from Thora Sharptooth, greeting!
Pagan said:
>Assuming the latest reconstruction
>of the lyre is vaguely accurate (my professor noted that you can buy your
>very own copy at the British Museum), how would it be played? Then you
>wander off to Christopher Page's thesis on the Anglo-Saxon hearpan, and the
>bit in "The Story of English" TV series where he plays and chants the first
>lines of "Beowulf", and decide that it's really neat, but you have no idea
>whether it's anything like the original.
I told my husband Dof about this question, and this is what he said. (Dof has
made several Saxon lyres and has been playing them for 5 years.)
"As for the accuracy of reproductions, here is the best source: Frederick
Crane, EXTANT MEDIEVAL MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS: A PROVISIONAL CATALOGUE BY TYPES
(Iowa City: University of Iowa Press, 1972). [We finally got our own personal
copy of this at the Cloisters in New York City two months ago, so it may still
be available.] It lists seven 'Germanic lyres' and seven bridges. They range
from the fifth through the tenth century.
With respect to how they were played, there are many illuminations of people
playing lyres. I have eliminated those that are outside the time when they
lyre seems to have been common (post-11th century) on the assumption that the
artist had never seen someone actually playing the instrument, and find that of
those illustrations contemporary in age with the finds there is great
consistency with respect to the way the instrument is held and the way the
hands are being placed on the instrument. The lyre is usually held upright
resting on one or the other leg; the right hand is holding some kind of
plectrum and moving close to the bridge; the left hand is behind the instrument
with the fingers spread, apparently against the strings. Typical of these is
the illumination of King David from the Vespasian Psalter (circa early 8th
century), which is the picture shown in 'The Story of English' just before
Christopher Page plays.
Putting this together with the archaeological evidence of all the narrow bridge
finds (the bridges range from 3/4" to just over 2" wide), it seems the
instrument would have been strummed, not plucked. Parallel-stringed
instruments were known at the same period and are much easier to pluck. While
the individual musician could have done any number of things possible on the
instrument, the most common thing would seem to me to be blocking and
strumming. By this I mean strumming across the strings with the right hand and
blocking strings from behind with the left hand so the strings you are touching
with the left hand are the strings that DON'T sound. This is very comfortable
to do and produces pleasing results.
Additionally, the finds all have openings in the back which are larger than one
half the string length. This would allow the left hand to produce half-length
harmonics for occasional highlights. Yes, to do these you would pluck the
individual string, which is why I think it would only be used occasionally.
As for tunings, since my local music store was out of Mel Bay's COMPLETE GUIDE
TO THE ANGLO-SAXON LYRE, :-) I have tried many different tunings and string
arrangements. Archaeologica Musica (P.O. Box 92, Cambridge CB4 1PU, England)
produces the audio tape 'Sounds of the Viking World,' and as best I can
determine from the tape, they use the first 6 notes of a major scale (e.g., if
tuned to C, then CDEFGab). Using this tuning I have been able to produce the
songs from the tape as well as several choral pieces contemporary to the lyre.
Additionally, I have had pleasing results with various diatonic and pentatonic
tunings. But again, we have no explicit knowledge of how they tuned.
My basic rule in all the exploration has been 'find out as much as we can of
what's known, but from there spend many hours playing with it and see what
feels right.' So if any of the above that feels right for me doesn't work for
you, throw it out. Then let me know what does work for you.
From what I can see of Christopher Page's playing on 'The Story of English,' he
is holding the instrument with the strings against his body so he can rest his
right hand in the upper opening, plucking with his right hand, his left hand
only holding the instrument. While there are some illustrations of people
holding their left hands on the top of the instrument, I know of none with the
strings reversed or the right hand as far up on the instrument as he does. I
can't help but think, if it was being used as a plucked instrument, the bridges
would be wider. THIS DOESN'T MEAN IT WASN'T DONE. I just haven't seen
anything to support it.
-- Dofinn-Hallr Morrisson"
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Carolyn Priest-Dorman Thora Sharptooth
Poughkeepsie, NY Frosted Hills ("where's that?")
priest at vassar.edu East Kingdom
Gules, three square weaver's tablets in bend Or
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From: dragonsl at hebron.connected.com (Ralph Lindberg)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Viking instruments and such...
Date: 27 Apr 1994 08:27:11 -0700
From the 'Britain before the Conquest" series' Anglo-Saxon England 400AD
to 1066 page 56
...A Lyre..74cm long was found at Sutton Hoo....Harps are mentioned in
BEOWULF....Other musical instruments known in Anglo-Saxon manuscripts are
the horn, trumpet, pipe, shawn, rebec, and probably the bagpipes. A
Danish-period flute was found at York.
.....
But just don't ask me what a shawn or a rebec is.
Ralg Nilsen, Dragons Laire, AnTir more hobbies then time
email dragonsl at hebron.connected.com
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 12:07:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Greg Lindahl" <lindahl at pbm.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Early Period Musicians/Sutton Hoo
> Also, the gentle who created the harp (Master Brendan for those in
> Calontir) mentioned someone who possibly _records_ Anglo-Saxon stuff
> accompanied by one of these. Anyone got any ideas on this one? Or
> (Gregory?) any other places on the net I should look or ask?
Here's an article about an early Lyre:
http://www.cs.vassar.edu/~priestdo/lyre.html
Which has a bibliography which might lead you to similar information
about Saxon harps. It looks like a highly speculative field to play
in, because there simply isn't that much known -- a few finds of
instruments, a few paintings, no music, but an occasional discription
of tuning. This webpage refers to a period description for lyre tuning
for a 6-string lyre which is not pentatonic, it's simply the first 6
notes of our major scale. Which isn't that much of a surprise; early
chant is based on hexachords, and the first 6 notes of the major scale
form a hexachord which was used in chant.
> Maerwynn of Holme, a French horn player (with an Anglo-Saxon persona)
> who's desperately searching for a _Medieval_ instrument she can play! :)
Sackbutts and cornetti are too late for you? Straight trumpets are
expensive, I'm finding out.
-- gb
From: Robin Carroll-Mann <rcmann4 at salmon.earthlink.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Interesting posts
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 03:53:15 GMT
On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 16:39:56 -0700, David Friedman
<ddfr at daviddfriedman.com> wrote:
>My daughter took Dov's class on the Anglo-Saxon Lyre, is interested in
>playing one. I've checked Dov's webbed instructions and plan to make one
>for her to play.
I don't know if he covered this in his class, but there was a lyre
found in a recent excavation of a 7th century Saxon prince's grave.
The lyre is of the same style as the one found at Sutton Hoo, but its
remains were more complete.
http://www.molas.org.uk/pages/siteReports.asp?siteid=pr03&;section=preface
Brighid ni Chiarain (mka Robin Carroll-Mann)
Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom
To email me, remove the fish
From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Germanic lyre query
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 00:17:11 -0800
I've recently, inspired by Master Dof, made several plucked lyres based
mostly on the Sutton Hoo lyre. Like all the Anglo-Saxon lyres, it
survives only as fragments.
There was, however, one complete lyre found in a german grave which was
only destroyed in WWII. I would like to try to make one based on it, but
all I have is a line drawing of it in one book. Does anyone know of
either a published photograph or published dimensions?
While on the subject, does anyone know of early pictures of bowed lyres
of the figure eight form (as opposed to the ones that look like the
later Crwth) other than the one 10th century picture of King David that
shows up in various books? Any surviving instruments of that sort?
--
David/Cariadoc
www.daviddfriedman.com
From: alchem at en.com (James Koch)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Germanic lyre query
Date: 22 Nov 2004 21:22:52 -0800
David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com> wrote
> I've recently, inspired by Master Dof, made several plucked lyres based
> mostly on the Sutton Hoo lyre. Like all the Anglo-saxon lyres, it
> survives only as fragments.
I am certainly no expert on musical instruments, but some years ago
Benjamin(sp?) Bagby performed Beowulf at Harkness Chapel on the CWRU
campus here in Cleveland. He accompanied himself on a reproduction of
an Anglo Saxon period lyre which was tuned in some strange scale
(pentatonic?). I believe he may still be associated with the
university. You may want to contact him or stop at CWRU the next time
you are in town.
Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)
From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Germanic lyre query
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:28:06 -0800
alchem at en.com (James Koch) wrote:
> David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com> wrote
> > I've recently, inspired by Master Dof, made several plucked lyres based
> > mostly on the Sutton Hoo lyre. Like all the Anglo-saxon lyres, it
> > survives only as fragments.
>
> I am certainly no expert on musical instruments, but some years ago
> Benjamin(sp?) Bagby performed Beowulf at Harkness Chapel on the CWRU
> campus here in Cleveland. He accompanied himself on a reproduction of
> an Anglo Saxon period lyre which was tuned in some strange scale
> (pentatonic?). I believe he may still be associated with the
> university. You may want to contact him or stop at CWRU the next time
> you are in town.
His lyre is described as based on the Oberflacht find which, like the
Sutton Hoo lyre, was fragmentary. Judging by the webbed pictures it's
very like the Sutton Hoo lyre, except that there is a crosspiece near
the peg end which I haven't seen any evidence for in what I've found so
far, and the end piece doesn't seem to be rivetted on the way the Sutton
Hoo lyre's is.
It would be interesting to get more information on it, and I'll try to
correspond. But what I really want at this point, having done four lyres
based on the Sutton Hoo, is the Lupfenberg lyre, which is the only
complete one ever excavated and looks like a somewhat different design.
--
David/Cariadoc
www.daviddfriedman.com
From: peerlady at hotmail.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Germanic lyre query
Date: 23 Nov 2004 14:43:49 -0800
David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com> wrote:
> ... the Lupfenberg lyre, which is the only
> complete one ever excavated and looks like a somewhat different design.
I don't have these in front of me, but you may be able to find more
information in these two pre-WWII publications:
Panum, Hortense, "Harfe und Lyra im alten Nordeuropa," (1905), in
Sammelbaende der Internationalen Musikgesellschaft
Panum, Hortense, Stringed Instruments of the Middle Ages (1940)
-- Signy
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: djheydt at kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Subject: Re: Germanic lyre query
Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd.
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 05:35:09 GMT
James Koch <alchem at en.com> wrote:
>I am certainly no expert on musical instruments, but some years ago
>Benjamin(sp?) Bagby performed Beowulf at Harkness Chapel on the CWRU
yes. also in Berkeley.
>campus here in Cleveland. He accompanied himself on a reproduction of
>an Anglo Saxon period lyre which was tuned in some strange scale
>(pentatonic?).
From the webpage: "Although several possible tunings present
themselves, the six tones used tonight were arrived upon through
a careful study of early medieval modal theory, yielding an
octave, three perfect 5ths, two perfect 4ths and two minor 3rds."
I believe he may still be associated with the
>university. You may want to contact him or stop at CWRU the next time
>you are in town.
He belongs to Sequentia, which is based in Cologne, Germany.
They've made a lot of recordings, including a just-released set
of readings from the Eddas. But not the Beowulf yet, dammit.
http://www.bagbybeowulf.com/background.html
Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djheydt at kithrup.com
From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Germanic lyre query
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 17:47:49 -0800
I followed up the suggestion and got a friendly and helpful reply from
Bagby. They've found another complete lyre in Germany! Next time I drop
by Konstanz ... .
I've emailed the museum I think it's in.
If anyone on this list happens to be in Konstanz with a camera ... .
--
David/Cariadoc
www.daviddfriedman.com
From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Germanic lyre query
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 19:27:13 -0800
jk <klessig at cox.net> wrote:
> David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com> wrote:
> >I followed up the suggestion and got a friendly and helpful reply from
> >Bagby. They've found another complete lyre in Germany! Next time I drop
> >by Konstanz ... .
>
> Where, and When?
To continue the story.
I found the Konstanz archaeological museum on the web, emailed them a
query, got back a friendly response from the person at the museum
dealing with the lyre--including cites to the two preliminary articles
she has published on it in two German archaeological journals. I went to
Amazon.de and ordered the relevant copy of one of the journals.
Isn't the net wonderful?
To answer your question, quoting from her email:
"a complete wooden lyre from the 6th century was discovered in the
merovingian cemetery of Trossingen in 2002."
She has also sent me the cites for two German books containing
information on the lyre I was actually looking for (an earlier find
destroyed during WWII). The next problem is finding them. I'm going to
be in Chicago and in the Boston area during our New Year's trip--I
wonder what rules Regenstein and Widener have for access by alumni?
The information, if anyone else is looking:
The earlier find is registered in Oberflacht grave 84 and published in:
Siegwalt Schiek, Das Graberfeld der Merowingerzeit von Oberflacht
(Stuttgart 1992) 55f. Taf. 61B,3.
Peter Paulsen, Die Holzfunde aus dem Graberfeld bei Oberflacht und und
ihre kulturhistorische Bedeutung (Stuttgart 1992)147.
Two provisional reports on the recent find are published:
Archaologische Ausgrabungen in Baden-Wurttemberg 2002 (Stuttgart 2003)
148 -157.
Barbara Theune-Grosskopf, Krieger auf der Leier In: Archaologie in
Deutschland 3/2004, 8-13.
--
David/Cariadoc
www.daviddfriedman.com
From: mmagnusol <mmagnusol at nc.rr.com>
Date: April 4, 2007 1:11:25 PM CDT
To: - Authenticity List <authenticity at yahoogroups.com>, - BARONY of WINDMASTERS' HILL <keep at windmastershill.org>, - IrgenTLA <IrgenTLA at yahoogroups.com>, - Manx <TheManx at yahoogroups.com>, - Medieval Sawdust <medievalsawdust at yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Anglo_Saxon_Lyres : Anglo Saxon Lyres
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/Anglo_Saxon_Lyres/
http://michaeljking.com/Sutton_Hoo_Lyre.htm Sutton Hoo and Taplow Lyres Pages.
The guy makes and sells them too. 4/07
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:ALM_02_Leier.jpg
<the end>
