Stefan's Florilegium

research-msg

research-msg - 3/30/01

Useful comments on doing research for SCA projects.

NOTE: See also the files: languages-msg, Med-Math-Sci-bib, Redacting-art,
info-sources-msg, maps-msg, med-letters-msg, books-food-msg, publications-msg.

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NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that
I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some
messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium.
These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with
seperate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes
extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were
removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I
make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the
individual authors.

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these
messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this
time. If information is published from these messages, please give
credit to the orignator(s).

Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
mark.s.harris@motorola.com stefan@florilegium.org
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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 18:45:29 -0500 (CDT)
From: "I. Marc Carlson" <LIB_IMC@centum.utulsa.edu>
To: ansteorra@eden.com
Subject: Re: A & S standards

<Stefan li Rous<"Mark Harris" <mark_harris@riscgate.sps.mot.com>>>
>While I would like to hear your definitions and contrasts between all
>five of these and particularly the last two, we can take this to email
>unless you think others might be interested.
<PUG<Richard Bainter <pug@interval.net>>>
>I'm interested, and think others would be as well. Although I have
>concepts of what these are, I don't know what others think they are, nor
>the proper definitions. (Which I can of course look up, but doesn't tell
>me what others think they are.)

Since I have two on-list, and one off-, in favor of more spouting of
opinion :), and one of those is the guy running the place.

Ok, as I learned this way back at the Pompous Academy, a "Primary"
source is the item in question that you are study. A Secondary source
is one step removed from that item. A Tertiary source is a further
remove than that.

For example, if I were going to discuss Medieval Shoes, if I had
access to a REAL Medieval shoe, that would be a Primary Source. A
photograph, or a detailed description of that shoe, would be a
Secondary source. Someone relating what someone ELSE had to say about
that shoe would be a Tertiary source (This is the real reason for asking
for citations... Unless you are a recognized authority in something or
other, and have explored that topic on your own, all you are likely to
be doing when relating "facts" is to be quoting what other people have
said about it, and as anyone who has ever played the "telephone game"
should be able to attest to, sometimes minor details can dissapear -- and
when enough minor details dissapear, the message becomes garbage.

(BTW, my shoe site is, with regards to actual medieval shoes, a Tertiary
source (at best); although it can be considered a secondary source regarding
making shoes that resemble medieval shoes, or shoes in a style I believe
resembles a Medieval one (since I *have* done that); and a primary source
(one of many, most of which are IMO better) if you were doing a study on
the various levels of scholarship on the 'Net.)

Let's look at this another way. We have in this Society what has been
referred to as the "ubiquitous Viking Women's Tabard". Not terribly long
ago, Gunnora made a reference to this on the Historical Costuming List,
and pointing out that this was an erroneous interpretation. My wife, fussy
costumer that she is wanted me (she would have done it herself, but she
is still without email) to find out on what sources Gunnora had used to base
this statement.

(Note that this was not a criticism of Gunnora or her scholastic integrity,
but for something like this, had Talona simply *accepted* someone else's
word would have been inexcusably sloppy without some idea of WHY that other
person had made such a statement.)

Gunnora cheerfully supplied some sources most of which we immeadiately
placed InterLibrary Loan requests on. We have now started to look at
the first of these, and what it appears has happened was that these
dresses were first excavated [Primary Sources]; they were described in
print by the Archaeologist, and the experts they consulted with [Secondary
Sources]. However, these were in German, and when these sources were
first quoted in English [Tertiary Source] a significant error crept in,
transforming the wraparound dress style to be described as a front and
back tabard. Until recently, all of the costuming works that described
the dress in English, were based on that flawed tertiary source, which
means that (if this is the correct sequence of events, something I will
be able to state with more conviction when the German works we are
waiting on come in) everyone who made an outfit, basing their work, in
Good Faith, upon the work of THEIR sources runs the risk of looking
pretty stupid, or feeling like they look stupid. (BTW, if you simply
take MY word for it, you are running a great risk, since I have no idea
at this point if the mistranslation hypothesis is supported by the original
German materials).

Are you seeing a pattern here ? :)

I. Marc Carlson, Reference Librarian |LIB_IMC@CENTUM.UTULSA.EDU
Tulsa Community College, West Campus LRC|Sometimes known as:
Reference Tech. McFarlin Library | Diarmuit Ui Dhuinn
University of Tulsa, 2933 E. 6th St. | University of Northkeep
Tulsa, OK 74104-3123 (918) 631-3794 | Northkeepshire, Ansteorra

Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 20:33:46 -0500 (CDT)
From: "I. Marc Carlson" <LIB_IMC@centum.utulsa.edu>
To: ansteorra@eden.com
Subject: Re: A & S standards

<Stefan li Rous<"Mark Harris" <mark_harris@riscgate.sps.mot.com>>>
>What is the difference between "Primary" and "Principle" sources? Or
>did I miss something in your explantion, Diarmuit? (Like a second
>message :-) )

I left that part out since I was starting to rant and froth at the
keyboard. I'm better now, and will get to the other part of the topic.
Now, assuming the jargon I described to you is accurate, what is wrong
with the following statement: "I made these shoes using _Shoes and Pattens_
as my primary source"? *Technically* there is nothing wrong with the
statement, so why are all those academics sharpening their quills with
their grinding teeth? The problem is that *since* "primary" is a jargon
term for the "original" item, and its meaning of "principle" or "major"
comes second to that (see which definition comes first in the dictionaries),
the use of the term, while technically accurate, can often sound like an
illiterate jargon usage (for example, would you be caught dead saying that
"my car is my main mode of transmission"?). Yes, the "problem" such as
it is, is with the anal academics (and I speak as somebody that the term
"my primary source" drives insane).

In short, by asking the question that way, I was intending to emphasis
the difference in meaning between "Primary" and Primary (we won't even
DISCUSS "primary"). I was asking if people knew the difference between
the jargon term and the simple English word that means the same as
Principle...

Diarmuit

Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 13:04:17 -0800
From: Mary Haselbauer <slaine@stlnet.com>
To: sca-arts@raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Documentation resource

I would like to recommend a book from my art history days.

Art Information: Research Methods and Resources 3rd edition
Lois Swan Jones. Kendall/Hunt Publishing 1990
ISBN 0-8403-5713-3

I'm guessing that there is a more recent edition that
includes internet stuff.
This book is great! It has information about planning
searches, bibliographies, museums, citation and resources.
It's intended for all periods of art research but it has
a section on the middle ages and renaissance.
Extremly valuable are the mini dictionaries of art terms in
German, French, and Italian.
Cheers,
Slaine

Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 11:24:23 -0500
From: rcmann4@earthlink.net
Subject: Inter-Library Loan ( wasRe: Fwd: RE: SC - Portuguese Cookbook)

And it came to pass on 7 Mar 01, , that Stefan li Rous wrote:
> OCLC??? RLIN??? Awk!!
>
> If one of the many librarians on this list would be willing to write
> a short overview article on using ILL (Inter-Library Loan) to do research,
> or how to use library resources in general for this, I'd like to have
> such an article for the Florilegium.

I am not offering to write an article, and I'm not sure if I'm really
qualified to do so. I don't work in a university library, as some of
my colleagues on the list do. I don't have access to OCLC or
RLIN, which are databases of the holdings of academic and major
public libraries. I am a reference librarian in a medium-sized
suburban public library. As such, I am probably typical of the
librarians that SCAdian researchers are likely to deal with, if they
don't have easy access to a university library.

Here are a few tips. I am going to assume that you already have a
specific book in mind. (Identifying specific titles in one's area of
interest is a whole article unto itself.)

1. Ask if your library has the book that you want. You might be
pleasantly surprised.

2. Ask for an inter-library loan. If the answer to question #1 is "no",
librarians will not always offer an ILL, even if one is possible.
Depending on the library, that may mean dealing with the same
librarian, or going upstairs to the ILL department, or coming back
on Thursday, because Mrs. Doe is the only person who knows how
to do ILL.

3. Give as much information as possible about the book -- author,
title, publication date. The ISBN (if any) is usually helpful.

4. If you need a particular edition/translation/volume, say so. If you
only want the Flower and Rosenbaum translation of Apicius, tell
the librarian. Otherwise, you may wind up with Vehling, or a copy
of the untranslated Latin text. If you care about format, say so.
Will a photocopy of pp. 27-35 do, or do you need the whole book?
What about microfilm?

5. Ask about borrowing fees. Sometimes there is one, sometimes
there isn't. You may be asked to specify a fee limit.

6. Be prepared to wait. An ILL request may take several weeks to
produce results. Remember that your local librarian cannot make
the book arrive any sooner. Once he/she has sent in the request,
it is out of his/her hands.

7. Be aware that the loan period is set by the lending library. Two
weeks may not be long enough to study "The History of Pre-
Modern Ruritania", but complaining to your local librarian won't
help. You can ask about renewals, but don't be surprised if the
answer is "no". Or, as I sometimes tell patrons when they
complain, "Their book, their rules."

8. When the book arrives, treat it with care and respect, and be
sure to return it promptly and in good condition. "Lost book" fees
for out-of-print titles can be astronomical. Repeated problems may
cause your local library to cut off your ILL privileges. Repeated
problems may cause a research library to cut off your local
*library's* ILL privileges. ILL is a system of organized cooperation,
and if a certain library feels that the system is being abused, it can
tighten the restrictions on what it will loan, and to whom.

9. Be nice to your local librarian. Theoretically, every patron gets
the same level of service. In practice, librarians are human beings,
and are likely to go a little further for people who treat them nicely.
Joe Grumpy will get the ILL he asks for. Jane Smiley will get her
ILL, but may also get unsolicited recommendations on other useful
books, or an offer to search a relevant database for more
information.

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)

Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:54:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Inter-Library Loan ( wasRe: Fwd: RE: SC - Portuguese Cookbook)

- --- rcmann4@earthlink.net wrote:
> And it came to pass on 7 Mar 01, , that Stefan li Rous wrote:
>
> > OCLC??? RLIN??? Awk!!

OCLC = Ohio College Library Computer system [IIRC]
RLIN = Research Library Information Network

And, no, individuals don't have access to either of
these. They are inter-library computer systems, which
help libraries identify names, titles, & editions and
saves time and money with cataloging them. My library
pays approximately $80,000 per year on our RLIN use.

> 6. Be prepared to wait. An ILL request may take several weeks to
> produce results. Remember that your local librarian cannot make
> the book arrive any sooner. Once he/she has sent in the request,
> it is out of his/her hands.

And sometimes the local librarian has to ask more than
one library to borrow said book. Said book could
already be circulating, or lost, or on the reserve
shelf and not available for ILL. Or some libraries
are very selective about the kinds of libraries they
loan out to. I once had to wait 6 months for a book
on ILL because the librarian had to go through at
least 6 libraries before she found one who would loan
the book out. Sometimes it just takes time.

Thank you Brighid for such a well written post. I
couldn't have said it better.

Huette

Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 23:58:14 -0500
From: rcmann4@earthlink.net
Subject: SC - Re: Inter-Library Loan

And it came to pass on 7 Mar 01, , that Huette von Ahrens wrote:
> OCLC = Ohio College Library Computer system [IIRC]
> RLIN = Research Library Information Network
>
> And, no, individuals don't have access to either of
> these. They are inter-library computer systems, which
> help libraries identify names, titles, & editions and
> saves time and money with cataloging them. My library
> pays approximately $80,000 per year on our RLIN use.

It is worth mentioning that the Library of Congress catalog is online
at http://catalog.loc.gov
It does not list every book in existence,and it does not tell you
what other libraries own a certain title, but it is quite useful.

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)

Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:11:40 -0500 (EST)
From: Jenne Heise <jenne@mail.browser.net>
Subject: Re: Inter-Library Loan ( wasRe: Fwd: RE: SC - Portuguese Cookbook)

> Only six months, eh? Four months ago, I was notified by
> the university library that a microfilmed thesis, ordered
> through ILL, was finally in and did I still want it considering I'd
> asked for it three years before?
> One wonders.

Oh. Important note: getting dissertations and theses through ILL is
generally pretty tough. (Well, if you had one of only two copies in the
world of something, how would YOU feel about loaning it to a complete
stranger.) If you need a US dissertation, blow the $25-$30 and buy it from
UMI. Some ILL departments will process this for you, but if you're an
independent scholar, you'll probably have to contact UMI directly, and
maybe get your copy electronically:
http://www.umi.com/hp/Products/Dissertations.html
--
Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise jenne@tulgey.browser.net

Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:14:47 -0500 (EST)
From: Jenne Heise <jenne@mail.browser.net>
Subject: Re: Inter-Library Loan ( wasRe: Fwd: RE: SC - Portuguese Cookbook)

> OCLC = Ohio College Library Computer system [IIRC]
> RLIN = Research Library Information Network
> And, no, individuals don't have access to either of
> these. They are inter-library computer systems, which
> help libraries identify names, titles, & editions and
> saves time and money with cataloging them. My library
> pays approximately $80,000 per year on our RLIN use.

However, OCLC markets an 'end-user' system to libraries, called Worldcat,
which contains the OCLC holdings database but is searched like any other
index database. A very handy tool if you or some sympathetic librarian can
get access to it. (Many academic libraries buy access to Worldcat via a
subscription, which makes it economical for them to do marginal searching
which is impractical in the per-search charging model of the OCLC database
itself.)
- --
Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise jenne@tulgey.browser.net

Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:58:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Ginny Claphan <mizginny@yahoo.com>
Subject: SC - OCLC

And it came to pass on 7 Mar 01, , that Huette von Ahrens wrote:
> OCLC = Ohio College Library Computer system [IIRC]

Actually it's Online Computer Library Center in Dublin, Ohio (USA). Several SCA
people work there.
http://www.oclc.org.

Gwyneth

<the end>