soup-msg – 6/10/07
Medieval soups. Cooking soups at events. Recipes.
NOTE: See also the files: sops-msg, stews-bruets-msg, broths-msg, thickening-msg, porridges-msg, mustard-soup-msg, onion-soups-msg.
KEYWORDS: period soup recipe pottage cooking heating
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This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
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Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: ddfr at best.com (David Friedman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca,alt.fairs.renaissance
Subject: Re: Soup for 100?
Date: 22 Mar 1996 03:19:17 GMT
> : 1) What size cauldrons/cookpots will I need?
Warrent writes:
> If the soup is the main course I'd say they'll want a quart each,
> otherwise maybe half of that. So if NOT the main course:
>
> Cap = halfquart * 100 = 50 qt = (uhmmmm) 12.5 gallons!
> Adding 100% for evaporation (unless you want to stand over
> it and add hot water periodically), that's 25 gallons total.
We just had soup for dinner; two adults and two small children consumed
about a quart, plus some bread. So I would say a pint per person of a
reasonably thick soup should do for a main course, a cup per person if
there is another main course. And allowing an extra 100% for evaporation
loss also seems extreme. I would say about a 10 to 15 gallon pot should
dol--or several adding up to that.
> : 2) Any suggestions as to good recipes?
You can find some period soup recipes at
http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cariadoc/miscellany.html
> : 3) Any other suggestions you folks have, especially mistakes to avoid and
> : useful equipment to have...
You want some tool, possibly a metal hook, to lift a hot pot lid. If you
are using a single ten gallon pot, it is going to weigh nearly two hundred
pounds full, so if you want to be able to lift the pot onto or off of the
fire you will need something like a pole going through a handle, with a
person at each end of the pole. It is also going to be hard to get a
tripod strong enough to handle that big a pot. You may want a big trivet
to put it on instead--although I have no idea where you would get one that
big.
David/Cariadoc
--
ddfr at best.com
From: bisbetica at aol.com (Bisbetica)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca,alt.fairs.renaissance
Subject: Re: Soup for 100?
Date: 22 Mar 1996 12:10:09 -0500
Good luck with your endeavor. I just finished a feast for one hundred
myself and am still recovering. Things I have found very useful: get
yourself a computer program such as Mangia or Micro kitchen companion.
They take recipies and will calculate the ingredients for you up to 999
people. This has been a big help to me. Secondly, I have discovered a
broth mix that is meat free but tastes like its meat made counterparts.
It is called George Washington's Brown or Yellow broth. My vegetarian
friends love it and the meat lovers do'nt ever notice the difference. You
just have to watch how salty it gets.
Good Luck! Katerina
From: hwt at igs.net (Henry Troup)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca,alt.fairs.renaissance
Subject: Re: Soup for 100?
Date: 25 Mar 1996 20:24:44 -0500
You'll need a lot of firewood or charcoal for a lot of soup.
Ideally, you'll need a full-time woodchopper person.
My experience with boiling massive qunatities has included
maple syrup the hard way. It's astonishing how fast a
big fire consumes wood.
And if you're reheating soup, start early, bring it to the boil
for safety.
Wood fires are maybe 30% efficient - and water has a huge
latent heat of boiling. I haven't worked it out, but I
suspect that a pound weight of wood per pint of cold water
(to boiling) is about right - much like the pig roasting
rule - the fuel weights in the same as the pig.
Luck!
--
Henry Troup hwt at igs.net I am responsible for these opinions.
From: cclark at vicon.net (C. Clark)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca,alt.fairs.renaissance
Subject: Re: Soup for 100?
Date: 26 Mar 1996 14:15:07 GMT
Organization: EMI Communications
In article <4j7h0s$7bs at host.igs.net>, hwt at igs.net says...
>And if you're reheating soup, start early, bring it to the boil
>for safety.
...
>Henry Troup hwt at igs.net I am responsible for these opinions.
For reheating soup, I would suggest using several smaller kettles.
There's not much advantage to be gained from doing it all in one batch,
unless much stirring is required or you have to fit it onto a limited
number of cooking spaces and get it all ready at one time. In fact, I'm
not sure I see the advantage of doing a single huge batch from scratch.
This doesn't necessarily save much time and hardly insures that it will
all be made even nearly the same (because some ingredients may settle to
the bottom before serving).
And if you do want to reheat a single big kettle, there's no need to put
it all in at once. You should have nearly the same amount of added heat
(from the burner) in the pot after a given time period regardless of how
much soup is in, unless you let it boil before it's all in the pot. Start
with a quart or less, and then add more whenever it's about to boil. This
way, you avoid the problem of keeping it for a long time at temperatures
below 140 degrees Fahrenheit.
By the way (soup-related topic), my father knew someone who had a job at
an Indian reservation. Conditions were bad, there were shortages of food
(especially meat), wild dogs scavenging for any food not watched over,
and most of the people in charge didn't care. Since this person was a
rare exception who did seem to care, the inmates (oops, I mean Indians)
invited him to a feast. There was a soup served at the feast that he
liked, and he went back for seconds. As he helped himself, a nearby child
innocently advised him: "Dig down deep! Puppy in the bottom!" Yum.
Henry of Maldon/Alex Clark cclark at vicon.net
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:46:15 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - Early 'Celtic
Melissa Martines wrote:
> I was just wondering if anyone had any good primary sources for early
> Celtic food? (like 600 A.D.). I'm working on a coronation feast menu
> for some really early celts (English Celts, by the way).
>
> morgan
> melissa.martines at corpfamily.com
There's not much out there in the Arthurian food department, that I know
of. You will probably pretty much have to work with the earliest
recipes you can find for those foods that were available in the British
Isles at the time in question. This may or may not be especially
accurate.
Somewhere in the autobiography (Confessions?) of St. Colmkille (a.k.a.
Columba, founder of the monastery on Iona, among others), there is a
description of the Irish pottage called Brotchan Foltchep or Brotchan
Roy. As I say, it is a description, rather than a recipe. However, this
soup is still eaten in Ireland today, and given the list of ingredients,
there's no real reason it couldn't be more or less the same soup it was
in 597 C.E. Most Irish cookbooks have a recipe for it. Here's mine, for
what it's worth...
________________________________________________________________
Brotchan Foltchep
This soup probably started out as oatmeal porridge enriched with leeks
and milk, and has been eaten in Irish monasteries for about 1400 years
or more.
Serves 6
3 or 4 medium-size leeks, about 1 1/2 pounds
1/4 to 1/2 stick butter (1 - 2 ounces)
2 cups chicken or vegetable stock
2 cups milk
1/2 cup heavy cream
3/4 cup raw, steel-cut porridge oats, like McAnn's
Parsley (flat Italian, chopped) for garnishing
salt and white pepper to taste
Wash the leeks well. They are usually muddy and sandy. Remove any
visible dirt or grit. Trim off the root ends and discard. Starting at
the white, root ends, slice the leeks thinly. Place in a deep bowl of
cold water, and rub the leeks between your hands, gently, to separate
the rings and encourage the last of the grit to sink to the bottom. Lift
the leek slices off the surface till the bowl has nothing left in it but
water and mud. Drain the leeks in a strainer and set aside.
In a large, deep saucepan, bring the stock and milk to a simmer. Stir in
the oats, bring almost to a boil, and simmer for 20-30 minutes, or until
the oats are done.
While the oats are simmering, melt the butter in a deep saute pan, over
low heat. Sweat the leeks for five or ten minutes, until they begin to
soften, but not brown. When the oats are about half done, add the leeks
and their butter to the pan of soup. The leeks and the oatmeal should be
done at the same time.
Take the pot off the heat, stir in the cream, and season with salt and
white pepper to taste. Garnish with the parsley.
_______________________________________________________________
Plenty of roast and boiled meats would have been eaten (what with a
herd-based economy and all). Ditto milk and cheeses. Watercress in some
form (probably cooked, though).
Variations on the ham-and-cabbage soup-stew thing. Oh, and don't forget
the salmon.
Adamantius
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 17:07:28 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - soups with a grain in it
rebecca tants wrote:
> So, I went through EVERY book I have this weekend and have been over
> and over the stuff online and can't find a soup for my sideboard
> this upcoming weekend. I had thought something like a beef with barley
> would be nice, but not one of my books on english cooking between the 14's
> and the 16's lists any grain or starch in a soup other then breadcrumbs.
>
> My parameters are
> 1) English if at ALL possible
> 2) Beef or Pork broth (allergy to poultry I'm avoiding)
> 3) Needs to sit on a sideboard all day
> 4) It's a fighting event - so it needs to be kind of filling/substantial
>
> Any Ideas? Am I looking in the wrong places? (I checked the Miscellany,
> Pleyn Delite, The Good Housewife, Fabulous Feasts (ick), 7 centuries of
> english cooking, cookery in England, Take a THousand Eggs or more, etc.)
>
> Has anyone seen documentation for something like this?
Gervase Markham has several pottages from the late 16th / early 17th
century (while the English Housewife is dated 1615, I believe, it's one
of his later works, and he had apparently been accused not of
plagiarizing someone else's work, but his own, from earlier works, so I
think he is acceptable for the tail end of late period). If I remember
correctly, at least one of the potttages in TEH contains oatmeal. I
think it's Boiled Meats Ordinary, but I could be wrong. I remember it as
a pottage of beef broth, cubed mutton or beef, herbs, and oats. Perhaps
the odd onion or two.
Adamantius
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 18:39:49 +0000
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>
Subject: Re: SC - soups with a grain in it
And it came to pass on 2 Sep 97, that rebecca tants wrote:
> So, I went through EVERY book I have this weekend and have been over
> and over the stuff online and can't find a soup for my sideboard
> this upcoming weekend. I had thought something like a beef with
> barley would be nice, but not one of my books on english cooking
> between the 14's and the 16's lists any grain or starch in a soup
> other then breadcrumbs.
Timidly delurking....
In Hieatt's _An Ordinance of Pottage_, there is a recipe for "Gruel
enforsed", which is a thick soup-porridge based on a beef-pork broth.
She says in her commentary that gruel usually meant oatmeal, but
that it was sometimes made with barley, which is the grain she chose
for the redaction.
Brighid ni Chiarain of Tethba
Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom
Date: 3 Sep 1997 15:16:39 -0500
From: "Sue Wensel" <swensel at brandegee.lm.com>
Subject: SC - Re:Soups with a grain in it
Ruadh asks for a soup with a grain in it. Adamantius points out that Markham
has several. I just happened (for a change) to have some sources at work for
research I am doing in the evening.
Here goes:
_Of Boiled Meats Ordinary_ (I am not going to quote the recipe, just the
ingredients)
Mutton or Beef, Water, Violet leaves, Endive, Succory, Strawberry leaves,
Spiach, Langdebeef (anyone have any idea), marigold flowers (calendula, not
French marigold), Scallions, Parsley, Oatmeal (half as much as there are
herbs),
_Pottage without the sight of herbs_
Same as above, but you chop the herbs and oatmeal and "with some of the warm
liquor in the pot strain it as hard as may be"
_Pottage without herbs_
Use the meat, beaten oatmeal, and onions
_Pottage with whole herbs_
Mutton, veal, or kid; Oatmeal; Lettuce; Spinach; Endive; Succory; Leaves of
Cauliflower (would this be instead of the white flower?); White cabbage --
insides; Onions; Salt; Verjuice
If you need more detail just let me know.
Derdiru
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 22:26:15 +0000
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>
Subject: Re: SC - soups with a grain in it
From _An Ordinance of Pottage_ by Constance B. Hieatt, Prospect
Books, 1988
(This is from a 15th century English manuscript: Yale Beinecke MS 163)
Grewel enforsed
Take merybonys & fresch beef; make good gruell therof, than draw hem
throrow a streyner. Take fayre porke, tendur sodyn; peke out the
bonys & the senowys & do awey the skyn. Grynd hit smal yn a morter.
Temper hit up with the same gruell that ys drawyn; make hit smothe.
Let hit stond resonabely by the flesshe. Sesyn hit up with salt &
saferyn, than sette hym by the fyre. Lete hym boyle a lytyll, and
serve hym forthe.
Hieatt's redaction and comments are:
"Gruel" usually meant oatmeal, but it was sometimes made with barley,
an alternative which produces a pleasing variant of modern barley
broths.
In my adapted version, overleaf, I have included herbs as an optional
addition, since some other recipes suggest adding them.
Meat and Barley Soup
1 c. barley
1/2 lb. beef shin, 'cracked' by the butcher
2 c. cut-up cooked pork
generous pinch of saffron
1/2 tsp. salt
optional additions:
1 onion
2-3 TBS minced parsley
1/2 tsp. sage
Put the barley in a pan with the beef shin, onion (if used), saffron
and salt, cover with 6 cups of water and boil until the barley is very
soft (about an hour). Drain the barley, reserving the broth and the
bone. Cut any usable meat from the beef bone into pieces and put it
into a processor with the barley, pork chunks, and parsley and sage
(if used). Add a little of the broth and process into a fairly
smooth, thick "porridge". Stir this back into the rest of the broth.
If necessary to achieve the right consistency, add a little more
water. Check seasoning and serve hot.
Harper *** Robin Carroll-Mann
harper at idt.net
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 11:00:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: Uduido at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Soup stock-tip
Someone mentioned fatty items. If you leave your stock in a cool (read
refrigerated) place over night you can then remove the hardened fat from the
top the next day. This is a standard practice in the making of any meat based
stocks.
Lord Ras
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 21:48:21 +1000
From: KandL Johnston <woodrose at malvern.starway.net.au>
Subject: Re: SC - Ein Guter Spise
Cathy Harding wrote:
> I am going to be doing a lunch for about 14 people in a couple of weeks and
> thought I would use my latest aquisition ( a copy of ein guter spise).
> This weekend I showed the recipes to one of the persons in charge to see if
> any of the recipes apealed to her. Her observation was that there were few
> or no recipes with vegetables (There are some no meat eaters in the group).
> My question is does anyone know of german vegetable recipes from this time
> period?
From a friends book in german entitled Mideviel Cookbook there is a Pea Soup
recipe we found wonderful. Sorry I don't have the original german or a litteral
translation, only my poor attempt, but here goes any (and it was good)
250 g Fresh (or frozen peas if you must) Peas
2 onions
40 g butter
1.25 Litres Stock (we used vegatable stock)
1 strand Saffron
Pepper t taste
2 T. Muscatel ( Sweet White Wine)
1 bunch Parsley
40 g bread crumbs
Oions peeled and finely chopped. in butter fry until clear, then add the peas.
Add stock, pepper, saffron, Muscatel and simmer for 20 minutes on medium heat.
for clear soup add parsley and serve.
for thicker soup, sprinkle bread crumbs over soup with parsley and stir in. Cook
for 15 minutes more.
Note: we cooked the soup and took off the heat for about 2 hours before a quick
reheat beore serving. None came back to the kitchen.
<snip>
I have more but out of time right now. Hope this helps.
Nicolette
- ---------------------------------------
Rudolf von der Drau and Nicolette Dufay
Baron and Barone