porridges-msg – 5/14/08
Period porridges and gruels.
NOTE: See also the files: bread-msg, rice-msg, grains-msg, flour-msg, breakfast-msg, beer-msg, Ancent-Grains-art, polenta-msg.
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NOTICE -
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.
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Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
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Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 23:32:53 -0700
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: RE: SC - s medieval food yucky?
At 1:30 PM -0400 5/4/98, Tamara Crehan wrote:
>I have found Irish Oatmeal, sold in tins in Stop & Shop and Shaws
>supermarkets. Mc Cann's Irish Oatmeal from the tins is whole oats.
>Makes a delicious porridge and amazing cookies!
Works for a plausible reconstruction of the oat cakes that Froissart
mentions, too.
David/Cariadoc
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 10:15:57 EST
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - barley
troy at asan.com writes:
<< nother reason might be that many country people often had little or no
easy access to either commercially baked bread or to an oven, which
also, BTW, requires more fuel to cook the same amount of grain, so
porridge-y foods might appear to be the way to go. >>
I would like to point out that the overwhelming factor in the use of gruels
and porridges over baked bread, if such was the case, would also probably have
been due to the fact that, at least in the villages and cities of the MA, you
did not bake your bread at home. By law you, took your dough to the community
oven for baking and more often than not bought the dough you took to the
oven from a person who made dough.
Given that cash money was scarce in the MA, it would have been wiser to cook
up a dish of gruel than to pay the baker.
Ras
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:19:12 EST
From: Seton1355 at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Buckwheat Groats
> What are Buckwheat Groats (kashar)?
(Finially a question I can answer :-) )
Kasha, or buckwheat Groats is the whole grain of buckwheat. It's pretty cheap
stuff! Neither wheat bran nor cracked wheat come close to the taste of kasha,
but kasha is easy to find. Look for Wolfe's (brand name) kasha in the Kosher
foods section of the supermarket or go to the health food store and get kasha.
It is a staple feature of Eastern European ( & Jewish) cooking.
Phillipa Seton
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 08:17:45 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Buckwheat Groats
Seton1355 at aol.com wrote:
> > What are Buckwheat Groats (kashar)?
> Kasha, or buckwheat Groats is the whole grain of buckwheat. It's pretty cheap
> stuff! Neither wheat bran nor cracked wheat come close to the taste of kasha,
> but kasha is easy to find. Look for Wolfe's (brand name) kasha in the Kosher
> foods section of the supermarket or go to the health food store and get kasha.
> It is a staple feature of Eastern European ( & Jewish) cooking.
> Phillipa Seton
For practical purposes I'm in total agreement.
I'd just like to add one or two little things:
I gather, from reading the Domestroi, that "kasha" is simply a Russian
term meaning "grain", but agree that in most cases today it seems to
refer to buckwheat.
You may also find whole buckwheat or groats in markets that sell
Japanese foods, under the name "soba", which seems to refer to buckwheat
in general, buckwheat flour, and buckwheat noodles. But I agree also
that Wolfe's Kasha is probably as good an introduction as you can get to
buckwheat (especially with mushrooms and/or egg bows!) There's a
somewhat involved recipe on the box for turning the kasha into a pilaf;
my recommendation is that you go ahead and follow it!
Adamantius
stgardr, East
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 20:09:06 -0600
From: "Jennifer D. Miller" <jdmiller2 at students.wisc.edu>
Subject: Re: SC - Buckwheat Groats
>I gather, from reading the Domestroi, that "kasha" is simply a Russian
>term meaning "grain", but agree that in most cases today it seems to
>refer to buckwheat.
More precisely, it means "dish of cooked grains or groats". This could
refer to a porridge or a pilaf (is that the same as a frumenty?). Today,
it can also refer to cooked rice or semolina. The Russian word for grain
is "zerno", "zernishko" or "krupinka".
True, here in the West it does refer to buckwheat. However, in Russia
kasha is the generic term for cooked cereal. Some types of kasha (from
"The Russian's World" by Gerhart) are:
"mannaia kasha" -- cream of wheat
"grechnevaia kasha" -- buckwheat cereal
"pshennaia kasha " or "pshenka" -- a main dish of millet
"iachnevaia kasha" -- fine-grind barley kasha
"perlovaia kasha" -- whole-grain barley kasha
"gerkulesovaia kasha" -- name-brand cereal similar to oatmeal ("Hercules's
Kasha")
My husband has told me that several different types of kasha were offered
each morning at the Russian dormitory he lived in. They were eaten topped
with oil (not butter) and as far as he saw, nothing else. Sugar was not
available, no honey or preserves were in evidence. Salt was on the tables,
though. Unfortunately (the kasha was included in his meal plan), he hates
cooked cereal and ate bread and fruit, although he could have bought
Western-type ($10 a box) cereal .
Another grain dish, kut'ia, is made of steamed grain (usually wheat or
rice), raisins, honey and nuts. It was, and still is in many places, a
required item served at post-funeral meals. It is a period dish, but I
don't have the references handy at the moment.
>From the Domostroi (Pouncy:149):
"They [good housewives] stuff the entrails with kasha cooked with suet and
simmered (the kasha can be made from oatmeal, buckwheat, barley, or
whatever is available). If these [sausages] are not eaten up in the
autumn, they make a pleasant Christmas feast."
The _Domostroi_ also mentions "thin kasha with ham" and "thick kasha with
lard", saying, "this is what most people give their servants for dinner,
although they vary the menu according to which meat is available.
(Pouncy:161). Cooking directions for kasha are on page 163; "steam it well
with lard, oil, or herring in a broth." Several other fish are mentioned
as alternative accompaniments. Pouncy has a footnote saying that the lard
(or possibly, butter) was probably for meat days and the oil for fast days.
To close, here is a popular Russian saying:
"Shchi da kasha--pishcha nasha" (Cabbage soup and kasha is our food)
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Ilyana Barsova (Yana) ***mka Jennifer D. Miller
jdmiller2 at students.wisc.edu *** http://www.sit.wisc.edu/~jdmiller2
Slavic Interest Group http://vms.www.uwplatt.edu/~goldschp/slavic.html
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:40:47 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Frumenty - ANOTHER question!
> except for the philosophical
> debate that arose over whether wheat berries, cracked wheat or bulgur
> would have been a closer texture match to what period diners would have
> gotten/expected.
>
> That is, chewey whole grain kernels in sauce, or flavored mush.
I've used whole berry, cracked wheat and fine flour to produce various
cooked grain dishes. I would expect the cook to choose the form of the
grain to produce the intended taste and texture.
> We prepared 4 versions, 3 with wheat berries, and one with cracked wheat,
> which may have turned out mushier than if we'd used "bulgur" -- cracked
> wheat and bulgur -are- two different things, yes? We're assuming bulgur
> is to cracked wheat sort of like steel-cut oats oatmeal is to rolled oats
> oatmeal, and are going to check by doing a set for next meeting.
Not exactly. Cracked wheat is made from wheat berries which have been dried
and ground. For bulgur wheat, the berries are parboiled, dried and ground.
In both cases, whole berries, including the germ, are used and the meal is
sieved into 3 or 4 grades, #1-Fine, #2-Medium, #3-Coarse and #4-Extra
Coarse.
The chief difference is the bulgur wheat, having been pre-cooked, softens
and cooks up quickly, while whole grain and cracked wheat reallny need to
soak overnight and cook for a long time.
#1 and #2 bulgur are commonly used in tabouleh, while #3 and #4 are used to
replace rice in pilafs.
> And someone raised the side issue that the common commercial wheat
> berries that we used were probably a hard wheat, where most of the period
> European stuff was a soft variety. Whether this is a distinction we can
> expect to impose on hotel cooks (Double Tree) may make this a moot point,
> but it was raised. Although in -this- town, we probably have a
> reasonably good chance of their finding it if they look for it, at least.
Hard and soft should have no bearing on cooked grain (except that soft may
be a little sweeter). I tend to use hard red winter wheat berries for whole
grain wheat, because they are inexpensive and easy to obtain.
The common wheat in medieval Europe was emmer (Triticum dicoccum) which was
a soft wheat. Spelt (Triticum spelta) was less common and is a hard wheat.
So either may have been available, although spelt was more common in Central
Europe.
> So, there's another couple of questions! Who woulda thunk it!
>
> Thanks, & looking forward to erudition, enlightenment, etc., 8-),
> Chimene & Gerek
Bear
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:14:51 -0700
From: "David Dendy" <ddendy at silk.net>
Subject: SC - Early Medieval Irish Bread and Porridges
Considering the discussions which have gone on about bread on the list in
the recent past, I thought some people might be interested in a
serendipitous find I made while checking the carts of new books at the
college where I teach.
Regina Sexton, "Porridges, Gruels and Breads: The Cereal Foodstuffs of Early
Medieval Ireland", in EARLY MEDIEVAL MUNSTER: ARCHAEOLOGY, HISTORY AND
SOCIETY, ed. Michael A. Monk and John Sheehan ( Cork: Cork University press,
1998), pp. 76-86.
The article is based on information from the literature and legal documents
from the early material of Ireland, and the author is able to reconstruct a
surprising amount about these foods, including what was eaten with them as
condiments. While there is no specific recipe given, there is enough detail
available to indicate the ingredients, shaping and handling, cooking
techniques, etc., so that I should think a modern experimenter could make a
pretty close approximation of the beard eaten by the early Irish. The
section headings give a good picture of the contents:
Porridges and gruels
Breads
Ingredients of bread
Baking utensils and methods of preparation
Monastic and penitential bread
The condiments and relishes associated with bread
Conclusion
Notes and bibliography
Yours culinarily,
Francesco Sirene
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:33:59 +0100 (MET)
From: Par Leijonhufvud <parlei at algonet.se>
Subject: SC - viking age porridge
I spoke earlier of a viking age (a 10th C. Gotland womans grave, IIRC)
porridge based on archeological finds. I just rechecked with the one of
the archaeologist who worked with the find, and what the analysis said
was that it contained barley and pea, with milkfats most likely from
sheep.
I first thought that I should play with this in pease, and then propose
a reconstruction based on the data. But then I decided that this group
had too little traffic, and decided to see what could be done with it.
Ok, what suggestions does the group have for how to reconstruct it?
/UlfR
- --
Par Leijonhufvud parlei at algonet.se
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 17:21:19 +0100 (MET)
From: UlfR <parlei-sc at algonet.se>
Subject: Re: Thanks and Breakfast question, was Re:SC - What would you do?
On Tue, 2 Jan 2001, Jenne Heise wrote:
> > Do you know which of the cereals you list correspond reasonably
> > closely to things eaten in period? Rolled oat are, I think, a 19th
> > century invention.
>
> Does anyone have a source for period-type oat meal to make period oat meal
> porridge?
There is (at least) two in Curye on Ingish. One is not what most would
think of as a breakfast food (gruel forced, it has meat added to the
boiled gruel), but the other would not be too far off. I can't recall
the full recipie, but I think it is oatmeal, boiled with stock (this is
where I'm uncertain), and with almond milk added after boiling. I'll
post the recipie tonight.
/UlfR
- --
Par Leijonhufvud parlei at algonet.se
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:19:52 -0700
From: Edouard de Bruyerecourt <bruyere at jeffnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] crockpot oatmeal
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Phil Troy/ G. Tacitus Adamantius wrote:
> Scottish and Irish porridge enthusiasts would probably suggest that
> the secret of a good porridge is a certain amount of aeration;
> probably the same rules for a good risotto apply, and I gather that
> fine hotels in Scotland give the porridge a couple of good whips with
> a balloon whisk immediately before serving.
Constant stirring while cooking is a traditional method. But with a
wooden _spirtle_ (wooden 'stick'), not a metal whisk. I imagine fine
hotels in Scotland are resigned to feeding foreigners. They probably
caved in and offer treacle and sugar for it, as well. [shudder]
I buy whole groats and give them a quick spin in a grain mill to make a
coarse oat meal (works great in bread, too). Or you can buy it that way,
labed as Scots oatmeal or porridge, or sometimes steel cut groats. Bring
water to a rolling boil, turn down to a simmer, add salt, then drizzle
in the meal while stirring. Keep stiring until it's cooked and thickens
up. This is the 'short-cut' method I've used at events, and it usually
takes longer to bring the water to a boil (for just me, a cup or so of
water) than to cook the porridge, and the porridge is a bit past 'al
dente' so to speak. If I let it cool, it's thick enough to slice.
I don't use, or like, rolled oats except in my muesli or cookies. I
also expect that the meal cooks fast than 'old-fashioned' rolled oats
because there is greater surface area per volume than the rolled oats.
The consistency is from near flour to really coarse corn meal/cut
groats, akin to grits and Malt-o-meal.
Traditional Scots oat porridge: oat meal, salt, stirred with a spirtle,
eaten standing up (nobody remembers why you stand, you just do). Those
that put sugar in it deserve to have their cattle and sheep 'wander
off.' :)
I tend to agree that cooking them in a stock pot overnight would not do.
Probably make them mushy or gluey if you had enough water.
--
Edouard, Sire de Bruyerecourt
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 07:15:05 -0400
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"
<adamantius.magister at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] pottage?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Also sprach Stefan li Rous:
> So, what is a good definition of a "pottage"? What are the dividing
> lines between a pottage, a stew, a bruit, a porridge and a soup?
Oy! Always he wants the straight, simple answers to complicated
kvest... I mean questions.
The short answer is there are no dividing lines between those dishes
so named, or rather, the names have denoted increasingly broadened
sets over time, to the point where there's been considerable blurring
of the "lines" and overlapping of the categories.
Mostly what we can fall back on is the original, dictionary
definition of each word, as determined when the dictionary entries
were written and/or back-determined, if you know what I mean.
So. A pottage, depending on who you talk to, is either a dish cooked
in a pot, or a dish sufficiently liquid to drink (as in potable). You
eat it with a spoon. The Larousse Gastronomique defines a potee as
anything cooked in an earthenware pot, and I was taught that to the
French, a potage (with one "t") is a soup with a phase of thin to
semi-thick liquid with solids in it, anything from, say, minestrone
to New England Clam Chowder. In Middle English I'd say a pottage is
anything you eat with a spoon or drink, as opposed to something you
eat with a knife -- IOW, there is a clear distinction between
lechemeats and pottages, but just to make sure Stefan is confused,
roasts can be cut up and sauced or recooked to make pottages ;-).
A stew is pretty straightforward. With a surprisingly small number of
exceptions (i.e. bouillabaisse), stews are denoted by slow, gentle
cooking, usually of tough meats and wintry vegetables. Similar to
braising. The name appears to refer to a cooking method and, perhaps,
a related piece of equipment, the use of a fire whose temperature can
be kept low and burn slowly and long, later using a firebox called a
stove. Estouffade and etouffee are essentially stews, both in concept
and etymology.
A brewet? It's brewed, I guess. I'm not sure if the medieval
distinction between it and other slow-cooked liquid foods is any more
clear, but maybe it's a tradition derived from saying the same thing
in two different languages, which is something you run across a lot
in medieval England. Hieatt and Butler aren't much help; their
glossary in Curye On Inglysch says a brewet or a bruet is a broth, or
something cooked in it. OTOH, since broths are made by cooking things
in water, it has a dual nature as both a foundation and a by-product,
which makes the definition just a bit circular.
A porridge today denotes a grain-based dish, usually a moderately
thin gruelly stuff, at least when hot, but the name appears to
ultimately come down to leeks, from something like poree or poire in
French. In simpler terms, porrey is a leek soup, and by extension,
any of several soupy green vegetable dishes (I believe le Menagier
identifies spinach specifically as "a kind of porrey"). I suspect
that grains got added to porreys as a thickener, and over time became
the dominant ingredient.
Soups are dishes of liquidy stuff poured over sops of bread, usually,
but not always, toasted. Mostly they were (back in the days when sops
were involved) relatively thin, but as always, the exception
sometimes proves the rule.