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cb-rv-Menagier-msg - 12/17/12

Reviews of various modern cookbooks containing recipes from the medieval "Le Menagier de Paris" household management manuscript.

NOTE: See also the files: cb-rv-Apicius-msg, cb-rv-Platina-msg, cb-rv-Taillvt-msg, cookbooks-msg, cookbooks-bib, cookbooks-SCA-msg, redacting-msg, Paris-msg.

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NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                 AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: DDF2 at cornell.edu (David Friedman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Documentaion
Date: 8 Apr 1994 02:33:47 GMT
Organization: Cornell Law School

> The Menagiere of Paris? Not a whole lot a recipies, but lots of
> ingredients lists. As far as I know, the Menagiere was rich, but he
> was a merchant. Unfortunately, I believe that he was 15th c.
>
> Lothar

Late 14th c. and quite a lot of recipes. You just need the full translation
of the cooking section by Janet Hinson, included in Volume II of my
collection, instead of the fragmentary translation of the cooking section
(not labeled as such) in the old translation of Le Menagier.
--
David/Cariadoc
DDF2 at Cornell.Edu


Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 01:00:50 -0800
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: SC - Menagier translation webbed

I have just finished putting  Janet Hinson's translation of _Le Menagier_
on my web page. Most of the work (correcting the OCR'ed text) was done by
Elizabeth. The URL for the table of contents is:

http://www.best.com/~ddfr/Medieval/Menagier/Menagier_Contents.html

David/Cariadoc
http://www.best.com/~ddfr/


Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 15:35:00 -0500
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Le menagier and Medieval Home companion

At 6:05 PM -0400 7/3/00, Jenne Heise wrote:
>I have in my possession Tania Bayard's edition of _The Goodman of Paris_,
>published as _A Medieval Home Companion_. I've been using the English
>translation of _Le Menagier de Paris_ by Janet Hinson online at:
>http://www.best.com/~ddfr/Medieval/Cookbooks/Menagier/Menagier_Contents.html
>
>Now, my sources say that these come from the same book... but the contents
>don't match! Are they really from the same book, or from two different
>books by the same title?

I don't know the Bayard book, but I had heard that it was only
selections from Le Menagier, not the whole thing. Similarly, the old
translation of Le Menagier leaves out chunks of the recipe
section--without telling you that it is doing so. Janet Hinson only
translated the cooking section, but she did all of it.

Does Bayard say what manuscript of the French original she is working from?

David/Cariadoc
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/


Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 12:14:03 +0200
From: "Cindy M. Renfrow" <cindy at thousandeggs.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Le menagier and Medieval Home companion

>I have in my possession Tania Bayard's edition of _The Goodman of Paris_,
>published as _A Medieval Home Companion_. I've been using the English
>translation of _Le Menagier de Paris_ by Janet Hinson online at:
>http://www.best.com/~ddfr/Medieval/Cookbooks/Menagier/Menagier_Contents.html
>
>Now, my sources say that these come from the same book... but the contents
>don't match! Are they really from the same book, or from two different
>books by the same title?
>
>Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise       jenne at tulgey.browser.net

Hello! They're all bits and pieces of the same book.
Bayard's book contains only a small number of the household hint
instructions in Le Menagier de Paris.
Pichon's edition of Le Menagier is two large volumes.  AFAIK, it
contains the whole text. Le Menagier has an enormous chapter containing 197
pages of recipes, menus, and general cookery and household instructions
(and about 50 pages worth of editorial notes). Greg & I have webbed part of
this (in French) at http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/menagier/
Power translated many of the culinary recipes, but not all, in her
edition of The Goodman of Paris.  She also included menus, some household
hints, etc.

Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu
cindy at thousandeggs.com
Author & Publisher of "Take a Thousand Eggs or More, A Collection of 15th
Century Recipes" and "A Sip Through Time, A Collection of Old Brewing
Recipes"
http://www.thousandeggs.com


Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 12:39:44 -0800
From: davd friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Le Menagier's chicken in orange sauce
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> 1. Anything I should know about the translation or the modern version
> given in Pleyn Delit?  Are they reasonably trustworthy?  Their
> interpretaion looks pretty reasonable to me but I'd appreciate knowing
> if it's not!

I am in Paris at the moment, oddly enough, flying home tomorrow--so
don't have access to Pleyn Delite. So far as I know, the only
commercially published English translation of Le Menagier only
excerpts the cooking section and doesn't always tell you when it is
leaving chunks out, so is not trustworthy--I don't know whether the
authors of Pleyn Delit (who are generally reliable sorts) used that
translation or not.

You might want to check against the Janet Hinson translation, webbed
on my site, and the French original, which I think is webbed
somewhere.
--
David/Cariadoc
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/


Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 22:09:57 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Le Menagier's chicken in orange sauce
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Kirrily Robert wrote:
> Bah. I just submitted my column, and the editor's asked me for a few
> hundred more words on Le Menagier - the man, the manuscript, whatever.
> Which, of course, I don't have.  
>
> Katherine

There's mixed opinions about it but you might want to see
Living and Dining in Medieval Paris: Medieval Paris:
The Household of a Fourteenth Century Knight
By Nicole Crossley-Holland This study is based largely around a manuscript
written in the 1390s the Ménagier de Paris for the instruction of his young wife on how to run her kitchen. In it, Nicole Crossley-Holland combines the scholarly
with the practical in introducing us to the sophisticated world of the
Parisian upper class. She offers us menus and advice on food preparation and household skills and goes on to identify the author of this manuscript, something which had remained a mystery until now. She examines typical Parisian houses, the origins of the produce, the diet of the household and provides translations of many of the primary sources.

University of Wales Press 2000.  244 pp, 24 b/w illus  Paper ISBN:
0-7083-1647-6.  Stock # DB004. $35.00
http://www.foodbooks.com/medieval.htm

Several other authors use Le Menagier as source for recipes, including
the Scully's in Early French Cookery and Redon's The Medieval Kitchen.

Johnnae llyn Lewis


Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 16:16:54 -0500
From: "Barbara Benson" <voxeight at gmail.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] New Publication of Old Manuscript?
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Perhaps this has already been posted by one of the lovely librarians
on the list and I simply missed it. But it appears that Boydell &
Brewer are going to be republishing the Power translation of Menagier?
I was searching for something else and came across this:

http://www.boydell.co.uk/43832224.HTM

Serena da Riva


Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 10:08:37 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] New Publication of Old Manuscript?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

I had seen something but thought it was a long time away
in terms of publications. There's a new edition by Woolgar coming too.
Food in Medieval England: Diet and Nutrition (Medieval History &
Archaeology S.) C.M. Woolgar

(Editor), Tony Waldron (Editor), Dale Serjeantson
Our Price: £55.00
Not yet published
Hardcover - (July 2006) 350 pages

Johnnae

Barbara Benson wrote:
> Prehaps this has already been posted by one of the lovely librarians
> on the list and I simply missed it. But it appears that Boydell &
> Brewer are going to be republishing the Power translation of Menagier?
> I was searching for something else and came across this:
> http://www.boydell.co.uk/43832224.HTM
>
> Serena da Riva


Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 13:33:19 -0800
From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] New Publication of Old Manuscript?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Perhaps this has already been posted by one of the lovely librarians
> on the list and I simply missed it. But it appears that Boydell &
> Brewer are going to be republishing the Power translation of Menagier?
> I was searching for something else and came across this:
>
> http://www.boydell.co.uk/43832224.HTM
>
> Or am I the only one this comes as a suprise too (being lost in a daze)?
>
> Serena da Riva

If I remember correctly, that's the one that has only excerpts of the
cooking section--and, worse still, doesn't mark the missing parts.
--
David/Cariadoc
www.daviddfriedman.com


Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:08:57 +0100
From: Volker Bach <carlton_bach at yahoo.de>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Thought you'd like to know
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>,
Cooking_guild at yahoogroups.com, twoseas at toryu.de

the Eileen Powers translation of the Menagier is out again. Farewell
photocopier smudges, goodbye extortionate second-hand dealers...

Giano

---------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht  ----------

Subject: Re: Title request: Goodman of Paris 06/Apr/2006
Date: Donnerstag, 23. März 2006 15:35
From: Alison Coles <acoles at boydell.co.uk>
To: carlton_bach at yahoo.de

Title notification from the Boydell & Brewer web site

We are pleased advise you that we now have stocks of this title.
Orders can be placed via your local bookshop or directly from us.

Please click below to see this title on our web site for more  
information:

http://www.boydell.co.uk/43832224.HTM

Alison Coles
Web Manager
Boydell & Brewer Ltd
PO Box 9, Woodbridge, Suffolk IP12 3DF. UK
Tel:  +44 (0) 1394 610600, Fax:  +44 (0) 1394 610316


Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 08:30:59 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Two New (to me) Books
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Wanda Pease wrote:
<<< I recently got my January 2009 copy of Speculum: A Journal of Medieval
Studies snipped
In the very back are advertisements from University snipped
The Medieval Cook, Bridget Ann Henisch from Boydell and Brewer  "The figure
of the medieval cook revealed in the context of time and circumstances."
Unlikely to be fiction in this venue. ($47.95 but Amazon has it for $31.00
The second is a new translation of Le' Me'nagier de Paris - titled The God
Wife's Guide, translated by Gina L. Greco and Christine M. Rose.snipped
Recommendations?  Has anyone seen these?  Maybe at Kalamazoo?
Regina >>>

I mentioned the new Menagier translation in my list of forthcoming books
in the fall.

It's still supposed to be out this month but it's not yet been released.
https://www.cornellpress.cornell.edu/cup_detail.taf?ti_id=5265
I suspect that it may be quite interesting. The authors are:
Gina L. Greco is Associate Professor of French at Portland State University.
Christine M. Rose is Professor of English at Portland State University.

Quite a price difference between the 69.00 hardcover and the 25.00 paperback.
Be sure and specify the paperback if you don't want to pay that
additional money.

Johnnae

<the end>

Edited by Mark S. Harris cb-rv-Menagier-msg 6 of 6



Formatting copyright © Mark S. Harris (THLord Stefan li Rous).
All other copyrights are property of the original article and message authors.

Comments to the Editor: stefan at florilegium.org