Stefan's Florilegium
cb-rb-Menagier-msg
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cb-rv-Menagier-msg -
12/17/12
Reviews
of various modern cookbooks containing recipes from the medieval "Le
Menagier de Paris" household management manuscript.
NOTE:
See also the files: cb-rv-Apicius-msg , cb-rv-Platina-msg ,
cb-rv-Taillvt-msg , cookbooks-msg , cookbooks-bib , cookbooks-SCA-msg ,
redacting-msg , Paris-msg .
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NOTICE -
This file is a
collection of various messages having a common theme that I have
collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some
messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part
of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files
are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a
limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate
topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes
extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs
were removed to save space and remove clutter.
The comments made
in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no
claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual
authors.
Please respect
the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The
copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If
information is published from these messages, please give credit to
the originator(s).
Thank you,
Mark S. Harris
AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan
at florilegium.org
************************************************************************
From: DDF2 at
cornell.edu (David Friedman)
Newsgroups:
rec.org.sca
Subject: Re:
Documentaion
Date: 8 Apr 1994
02:33:47 GMT
Organization: Cornell
Law School
> The
Menagiere of Paris? Not a whole lot a recipies, but lots of
> ingredients
lists. As far as I know, the Menagiere was rich, but he
> was a merchant.
Unfortunately, I believe that he was 15th c.
> > Lothar
Late 14th c. and
quite a lot of recipes. You just need the full translation
of the cooking
section by Janet Hinson, included in Volume II of my
collection, instead
of the fragmentary translation of the cooking section
(not labeled as such)
in the old translation of Le Menagier.
-- David/Cariadoc
DDF2 at Cornell.Edu
Date: Sun, 22 Mar
1998 01:00:50 -0800
From: david friedman
<ddfr at best.com>
Subject: SC -
Menagier translation webbed
I have just
finished putting Janet Hinson's translation of _Le Menagier_
on my web page. Most
of the work (correcting the OCR'ed text) was done by
Elizabeth. The URL
for the table of contents is:
http://www.best.com/~ddfr/Medieval/Menagier/Menagier_Contents.html
David/Cariadoc
http://www.best.com/~ddfr/
Date: Mon, 3 Jul
2000 15:35:00 -0500
From: david friedman
<ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Le
menagier and Medieval Home companion
At 6:05 PM -0400
7/3/00, Jenne Heise wrote:
>I have in my
possession Tania Bayard's edition of _The Goodman of Paris_,
>published as _A
Medieval Home Companion_. I've been using the English
>translation of
_Le Menagier de Paris_ by Janet Hinson online at:
>http://www.best.com/~ddfr/Medieval/Cookbooks/Menagier/Menagier_Contents.html
>
>Now, my sources
say that these come from the same book... but the contents
>don't match! Are
they really from the same book, or from two different
>books by the same
title?
I don't know the
Bayard book, but I had heard that it was only selections from
Le Menagier, not the whole thing. Similarly, the old translation of Le
Menagier leaves out chunks of the recipe section--without
telling you that it is doing so. Janet Hinson only translated the
cooking section, but she did all of it.
Does Bayard say
what manuscript of the French original she is working from?
David/Cariadoc
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/
Date: Tue, 4 Jul
2000 12:14:03 +0200
From: "Cindy M.
Renfrow" <cindy at thousandeggs.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Le
menagier and Medieval Home companion
>I have in my
possession Tania Bayard's edition of _The Goodman of Paris_,
>published as _A
Medieval Home Companion_. I've been using the English
>translation of
_Le Menagier de Paris_ by Janet Hinson online at:
>http://www.best.com/~ddfr/Medieval/Cookbooks/Menagier/Menagier_Contents.html
>
>Now, my sources
say that these come from the same book... but the contents
>don't match! Are
they really from the same book, or from two different
>books by the same
title?
>
>Jadwiga
Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise jenne at tulgey.browser.net
Hello! They're
all bits and pieces of the same book.
Bayard's book
contains only a small number of the household hint
instructions in Le
Menagier de Paris.
Pichon's edition of
Le Menagier is two large volumes. AFAIK, it
contains the whole
text. Le Menagier has an enormous chapter containing 197
pages of recipes,
menus, and general cookery and household instructions
(and about 50 pages
worth of editorial notes). Greg & I have webbed part of
this (in French) at
http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/menagier/
Power translated
many of the culinary recipes, but not all, in her
edition of The
Goodman of Paris. She also included menus, some household
hints, etc.
Cindy
Renfrow/Sincgiefu
cindy at
thousandeggs.com
Author &
Publisher of "Take a Thousand Eggs or More, A Collection of
15th
Century Recipes"
and "A Sip Through Time, A Collection of Old Brewing
Recipes"
http://www.thousandeggs.com
Date: Tue, 16 Dec
2003 12:39:44 -0800
From: davd friedman
<ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
Subject: Re:
[Sca-cooks] Le Menagier's chicken in orange sauce
To: Cooks within the
SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
> 1. Anything
I should know about the translation or the modern version
> given in Pleyn
Delit? Are they reasonably trustworthy? Their
> interpretaion
looks pretty reasonable to me but I'd appreciate knowing
> if it's not!
I am in Paris at
the moment, oddly enough, flying home tomorrow--so
don't have access to
Pleyn Delite. So far as I know, the only
commercially
published English translation of Le Menagier only
excerpts the cooking
section and doesn't always tell you when it is
leaving chunks out,
so is not trustworthy--I don't know whether the
authors of Pleyn
Delit (who are generally reliable sorts) used that
translation or not.
You might want to
check against the Janet Hinson translation, webbed
on my site, and the
French original, which I think is webbed
somewhere.
-- David/Cariadoc
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/
Date: Thu, 18 Dec
2003 22:09:57 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway
<johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re:
[Sca-cooks] Le Menagier's chicken in orange sauce
To: Cooks within the
SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Kirrily Robert
wrote:
> Bah. I just
submitted my column, and the editor's asked me for a few
> hundred more
words on Le Menagier - the man, the manuscript, whatever.
> Which, of
course, I don't have. >
> Katherine
There's mixed
opinions about it but you might want to see
Living and Dining in
Medieval Paris: Medieval Paris:
The Household of a
Fourteenth Century Knight
By Nicole
Crossley-Holland This study is based largely around a manuscript
written in the 1390s
the Ménagier de Paris for the instruction of his young wife on how
to run her kitchen. In it, Nicole Crossley-Holland combines the
scholarly
with the practical in
introducing us to the sophisticated world of the
Parisian upper class.
She offers us menus and advice on food preparation and household
skills and goes on to identify the author of this manuscript,
something which had remained a mystery until now. She examines
typical Parisian houses, the origins of the produce, the diet of the
household and provides translations of many of the primary sources.
University of
Wales Press 2000. 244 pp, 24 b/w illus Paper ISBN:
0-7083-1647-6. Stock
# DB004. $35.00
http://www.foodbooks.com/medieval.htm
Several other
authors use Le Menagier as source for recipes, including
the Scully's in Early
French Cookery and Redon's The Medieval Kitchen.
Johnnae llyn
Lewis
Date: Tue, 21 Feb
2006 16:16:54 -0500
From: "Barbara
Benson" <voxeight at gmail.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks]
New Publication of Old Manuscript?
To: "Cooks
within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Perhaps this has
already been posted by one of the lovely librarians
on the list and I
simply missed it. But it appears that Boydell &
Brewer are going to
be republishing the Power translation of Menagier?
I was searching for
something else and came across this:
http://www.boydell.co.uk/43832224.HTM
Serena da Riva
Date: Wed, 22 Feb
2006 10:08:37 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway
<johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re:
[Sca-cooks] New Publication of Old Manuscript?
To: Cooks within the
SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
I had seen
something but thought it was a long time away
in terms of
publications. There's a new edition by Woolgar coming too.
Food in Medieval
England: Diet and Nutrition (Medieval History &
Archaeology S.) C.M.
Woolgar
(Editor), Tony
Waldron (Editor), Dale Serjeantson
Our Price: £55.00
Not yet published
Hardcover - (July
2006) 350 pages
Johnnae
Barbara Benson
wrote:
> Prehaps this has
already been posted by one of the lovely librarians
> on the list and
I simply missed it. But it appears that Boydell &
> Brewer are going
to be republishing the Power translation of Menagier?
> I was searching
for something else and came across this:
>
http://www.boydell.co.uk/43832224.HTM
>
> Serena da Riva
Date: Wed, 22 Feb
2006 13:33:19 -0800
From: David Friedman
<ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
Subject: Re:
[Sca-cooks] New Publication of Old Manuscript?
To: Cooks within the
SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
> Perhaps this
has already been posted by one of the lovely librarians
> on the list and
I simply missed it. But it appears that Boydell &
> Brewer are going
to be republishing the Power translation of Menagier?
> I was searching
for something else and came across this:
>
>
http://www.boydell.co.uk/43832224.HTM
>
> Or am I the only
one this comes as a suprise too (being lost in a daze)?
>
> Serena da Riva
If I remember
correctly, that's the one that has only excerpts of the
cooking section--and,
worse still, doesn't mark the missing parts.
-- David/Cariadoc
www.daviddfriedman.com
Date: Thu, 23 Mar
2006 17:08:57 +0100
From: Volker Bach
<carlton_bach at yahoo.de>
Subject: [Sca-cooks]
Thought you'd like to know
To: Cooks within the
SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>,
Cooking_guild at
yahoogroups.com, twoseas at toryu.de
the Eileen Powers
translation of the Menagier is out again. Farewell
photocopier smudges,
goodbye extortionate second-hand dealers...
Giano
