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favors-msg - 11/26/10

 

On the making and giving of favors.

 

NOTE: See also these files: p-favors-art, SCA-courtesy-art, courtesy-msg, jewelry-msg, On-Favors-art.

 

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NOTICE -

 

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I  have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

 

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

 

I have done  a limited amount  of  editing. Messages having to do  with separate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs  were removed to save space and remove clutter.

 

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make  no claims  as  to the accuracy  of  the information  given  by the individual authors.

 

Please respect the time  and  efforts of  those who have written  these messages. The copyright status  of these messages  is  unclear  at this time. If information  is  published  from  these  messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

 

Thank you,

   Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                         Stefan at florilegium.org

************************************************************************

 

TO: Storm Shadowhawk

FROM: Baroness TSivia

SUBJECT: favours

 

Well, actually a favour can be just about anything and made of much the

same stuff.  I once embroidered one for a lover out of my own hair!  

Historically they started with those romantic ladies who would rip off a

tippett (sleeve) and tie them on the arm or helm of their fighter...later

on the ladies actually wore fake sleeves to do this!  In the SCA they are

traditionally embroidered (although that's not always the case - one of

my champions wore my hair scarf for 6 years because he asked me on the

spur of the moment, and I wasn't going to rip my garb for him! Luckily

the two were of the same material...).  You may take a long rectangle of

material (try to make it sturdy if the wearer will be fighting with it

on), 8 - 12 inches  times two (this will be folded over so that there's a

belt-loop created).  You may then embroider directly on the fabric, or

else embroider a special piece and attach it to the length of fabric

(this wears better).  I make velvet favours for dress costumes, and

cotton or other washables for fighting garb.  You have NO IDEA how stinky

a fighter's favour can be after 6 months in the armour bag...yuch!  You

may embroider your Arms or Device, a motto, a picture, symbolic animals

from both (or either ) of your devices...the possibilities are endless.  

The key is to fashion it with love (platonic or erotic..or both!?) and

care. You may give it to a lover, a friend, or even make special ones

for giving to more than one friend (such as I did at a Crown tounament

when three of my friends all got into the semis).  Your imagination is

all that restricts your efforts, my lady.  (My least fancy favours were

lengths of three different coloured ribbons, plaited together and ended

with a bell.  You might say I belled the cat...)  It is worth noting that

as of late, particularly in the Middle and East for Pennsic, the Queens

fashion special Tokens which they give to all who serve the War effort

(archers, rattan fighters, sometimes encampment guards and others who

serve). These are also tokens, but another kettle of fish altogether.  

HSH Tangwystl made satin tokens for the Ealdormere forces at Pennsic last

year...I imagine that as War Queen this year, she will do similar.  

Umm...Err...methinks I ramble a bit much.  Got that answered?  Message me

if there's any other questions.  Best to all!

* Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ontario (93:9630/1)

 

 

TO: All

FROM: N6852 U14 (Ted (Ice Breaker) Kocot)

SUBJECT: Favors - construction and (ab)use (RE: Favors)

 

   A favor can be anything that you want it to be (embroidery is by far the

most common but I have seen some REALLY far out ones). You can put just about

anything you want on them, though usually it is your arms, or some variation

of them. One favor that I have seen took the primary charges from the lord and

lady's device and mixed them together in a naturalistic scene.

        If the lord you are planning to present this to is a fighter then, by

all means, either make it indestructable, or make his sign a blood oath not to

wear it into the lists!!!

 

# Origin: WWIVnet  at 6852 - Snafu Software

 

 

TO: All

FROM: N5859 U49 (Marshal'S Antelope) Of 3

SUBJECT: Several comments (as usual)

 

Favors: My lady Storm, don't be ashamed of your work! My lord still wears the

favor I made for him five years ago; although my embroidery is considerably

finer now (I recently made him another for Court wear), we still feel

sentimental about the old one. So will your lord; it's the effort you put into

it that counts.

 

Thanks...

Alison MacDermot

(Eastern Crown Herald)

 

# Origin: WWIVnet  at 5859 - The Aerie

 

 

TO: Storm Shadowhawk

FROM: Meadhbh

SUBJECT: Re: Favors

 

i do inkle weaving. so i usually weave a short piece in my colors.  its

a popular pastime in ansteorra--weaving.  your favor sounds pretty.

* Origin: Justice - Make it Happen (1:106/960)

 

 

TO: Meadhbh

FROM: Storm Shadowhawk

SUBJECT: Re: Favors

 

An inkle?

I don't have a symbol, or standard or anything!  So I just made something up,

a gold circle with a heart in the middle and a rose above and below the

circle. It'll do for now.

 

"lady" Storm Shadowhawk....Amberla

 

* Origin: The Homestead * TORONTO, ONT * (416) 272-4067 * (93:9630/0)

 

From: mikes at iuvax.cs.indiana.edu (Michael Squires)

Date: 28 Feb 91 05:38:19 GMT

Organization: Computer Science, Indiana University, Bloomington.

In article <9102270829.AA29250 at sagepub.COM> jprod at sagepub.com writes:

> Greetings to the Rialto from Sister Kate!

>     First, let me thank all gentles for the responses to my first posting.

> The information on period bread, etc. was interesting and informative;

> the only question I got no answer to at all was on period favors and the

> favor/token customs of different kingdoms. I'm still interested. I know

 

In Sir Alan's time (Elizabeth I of England) favors varied.  Sir Henry Lee

wore his mistress's initials (NOT the Queen) engraved into the decoration

on his breastplate (he married her after retiring as Queen's Champion);

another favorite was given a chesspiece that he wore tied to a pauldron.

In the Middle favors are customarily embroidered onto a a square or retangular

piece of fabric and worn looped over the belt; I wore a favor tied to a

pauldron but had it torn off in a melee and lost; this is not a problem with

the usual practice.

When cleaning up after melees I have occasionally found lost favors; it is

very nice to note that a lost favor is treated with considerably greater

respect than lost armor and those finding it go to great lengths to return

it to the bearer.

--

Mike Squires (mikes at iuvax.cs.indiana.edu)     812 855 3974 (w) 812 333 6564 (h)

mikes at iuvax.cs.indiana.edu          546 N Park Ridge Rd., Bloomington, IN 47408

Under construction: mikes at sir-alan.cica.indiana.edu

 

 

Henry Best

All

Favors

24 Sep 91 09:49:54

                   

   Erik> Finally: I see many fighters with multiple favors on.  

   Erik> Is this a practice that should be frowned upon, up to

   Erik> the individual fighters and their respective favor-

   Erik> givers, or ignored?  

                   

       Well, it should be frowned upon during Crown Tourney for

   strictly practical reasons. Other than that little quibble, I

   feel VERY STRONGLY that it is up to those directly involved.

                     

       I think that favors remain the personal property of the

   giver and are to be relinquished to them upon request

   without question. That favor represents the giver's honor

   which he/she is placing in your care. You simply do not have

   the right to perform any dishonorable acts while bearing a

   favor. The favor is an expression of absolute trust that you

   will not do anything to dishonor it.

                       

       I believe that, if another lady asked me to bear her

   favor, my lady would take it as a compliment of the most

   profound sort. I do not think that she would feel anything

   other than pride.

                         

                                   Henry Best

                                   Isenfir

                                   Atlantia

 

Henry Best

All

Favors

24 Sep 91 09:49:06

 

   Erik> Is a non-heraldic favor considered right, poor practive

   Erik> but acceptable, unacceptable under any terms, or what?

     

       Hmmm. I think that a favor has to remind the recipient of

   the giver as strongly and as positively as possible. It

   should be personal, tasteful, and "period". Heraldry is a

   natural tool to use to obtain those ends and is used widely

   in the Society but I have never really thought of favors as

   being inherently heraldic.

       

       I have strong suspicions that the heavy use of heraldry

   in favors is SCA rather than medieval. All the accounts I

   have read involve handkerchiefs, gloves, sleeves, etc. I have

   never seen a primary source "heraldic belt favor". But then,

   I haven't really looked that closely.

         

       I am extremely delighted and proud to bear my lady's

   favor. I would like to tell you about it. I was taking my

   test for rapier authorization and my lady had intended to

   make me a favor to wear. Moments before I was to fight, she

   realized she had forgotten to do so. In a panic, she searched

   our stuff for something, anything, that would do and came up

   empty-handed.

           

       Then, she had an inspiration. She borrowed a pair of

   scissors and began to rip up the hem of her skirt. (I can

   only imagine our friends' reaction when this madwoman tore

   the camp apart and then began destroying her own garments..)

   She cut a strip, brought it across the field, and tied it

   around my arm with a kiss. I cannot muster the words to

   describe my feelings when she did that. Words like "love" or

   "pride" or "the Dream" all seem inadequate. I guess I'll have

   to go "california" and say it was a "peak experience".

             

       The brocade is fairly distinctive and I have no trouble

   associating it with her. Someday, she may make me a fancier

   one; but this ragged strip of cloth makes me very proud and

   happy. I delight in wearing it.

               

       So when designing a favor, all you really have to

   remember is the bottom line: Will this remind him/her of me

   and inspire him/her to honor? If it does that, who _cares_ if

   it's heraldicly correct? (Vert, a wierd brocade pattern

   azure....)

                             

                                   Henry Best

                                   Isenfir

                                   Atlantia

 

 

From: bmorris at access.digex.com (Beth Morris)

Date: 25 Sep 91 18:17:17 GMT

Organization: Express Access, Greenbelt, MD

 

Erik Aarskog asks:

>       What is a favor?  I have seen them with personal devices, with

>obviously non-period designs, and with just plain pieces of material

>flopped over a belt.  I am wondering how the denizens of the Rialto

>see them in light of the following questions:

<questions omitted>

>       Finally: I see many fighters with multiple favors on.  Is this a

>practice that should be frowned upon, up to the individual fighters and

>their respective favor-givers, or ignored?  Comments?

 

Last things first. As to the wearing of plural favors, Thorfinn says:

 

>Favors are given to show many things:  Household affiliation, friendship,

>love, or the approval of a Hat.  They need not be heraldic, and often aren't.

 

but neglects the important question of WHY one is wearing plural favors.

Obviously, one can be in a household and have a SO.  One could also be the

champion of another gentle, although one might or might not wear that favor

except in the act of championing that person.  One could wear the token of

one's prospective Consort in a Crown list, and also wear the token of one's SO,

if all were agreeable.  And tokens from the Crowns (etc) are often given and

worn regardless of other affiliations.

In the end it is up to the fighter in question to determine how many persons he

may, in honor, wear tokens from, and it is between the fighter and the giver

of the token to determine its 'meaning'.

 

As to what constitutes an appropriate favor, I like Winifred's suggestion:

 

>As I understand, in period women gave men scarves, sleeves, ribbons, etc.

>Since some fabric I have seen has arms embroidered on it, those sleeves could

>have had the women's arms on them. ... I may make a sleeve from leftover

>material next time I make garb. That way I have two to wear and one to give as

>a favor. "Give you my sleeve? My silk sleeve? I like you, but NO ONE gets my

>silk."

 

This works particularly well for gowns with detachable sleeves (15th C.

Northern European with the pin-on long sleeves over the short-sleeved gown, or

Italian Ren (although I don't know that they would have done it that way...)),

or for gowns with maunche sleeves (as Sir John suggests) or tippets.

I haven't found anything concrete to support the "dishrags" either -

if anyone does, please let me know.  In the meantime,

 

(Sir John, citing Viscountess Ascelin)

>Her research did turn up references to sleeves, tippets, and

>hankerchiefs, but not to napkins (which would

>be on the servers anyway? not on the ladies).  As another note,

>it was common for the ladies to be sewn into their dresses,

>and presenting a champion with a sleeve was quite a statement.

(Thus Winifred's suggestion of making a spare :-))

 

What about all the illustrations of people being given pennons?  You see

pix of people (usually the victor) being given chaplets of flowers too, but

that would get expensive and they aren't very durable.

 

Some other, purely practical-SCA ideas include garters (such as those of the

fighting Laureate, or those given for the Star of Merit in Ansteorra) (for

those who have not seen them, a leather (in the former case) or fabric band

with a buckle, which can be tied about the calf or upper arm), belts, helm

mantling, belt buckles, arming caps: all things that are depicted in period

as having armorial designs on them, and relatively easily made and personal-

ized. What about a sword-hanger (one of the leather tube 'scabbards' for SCA

swords? Or spur leathers (if appropriate!)  These ideas are mostly for fight-

ing favors, but many of them could also be worn off the field.  These suggest-

ions are from the perspective of a person who cherishes the idea of wearing

someone's favor more than the sign-visible-from-across-the-field-claiming-

possession. Too many times, people put hours of labor into painstaking

embroidery, only to have it demolished on the field - most of these should

hold up a while at least.  As far as what to put on them, if you don't feel

comfortable putting your arms, how about a motto? An element from your arms?

Something in your colors? An initial (if appropriate)?  

 

This is a question that has stumped me for a while and I've been researching

it recently.  Anyone who would like the full article on the subject (when its

done) should send me email.

 

Your (longwinded) servant,

 

Keilyn

Bmorris at digex.com

 

 

From: branwen at flipper.ccc.amdahl.com (Karen Williams)

Date: 4 Dec 91 22:32:16 GMT

Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

 

In article <1991Dec3.170228.28950 at pbhya.PacBell.COM> whheydt at PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:

>In article <1991Dec3.034539.8030 at bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> kabauer at silver.ucs.indiana.edu (katherine ann bauer) writes:

>>I am also interested in favors, as I am in the process of making one

>>for my lord.   . . .

 

>Well . . .  You could just tear your sleeve off and tie it around his

>arm . . .

 

One of my friends made a new dress, with white tippets hanging down from

the sleeves. She purposely sewed the tippets on loosely, so that when her

lord came to her for a favor at Crown Tourney, she ripped off one of the

tippets and tied it around his arm. It was splendid. (She made three tippets,

so that she could sew on a replacement later.)

 

Branwen ferch Emrys

The Mists, the West

--

                                         Karen Williams

                                         branwen at flipper.ras.amdahl.com

 

 

From: 76206.2342 at compuserve.COM (WILLIAM KYLE)

Date: 5 Dec 91 03:58:28 GMT

Organization: The Internet

 

Reply to: Jose" <kenm at maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca>

Subject: Favours....

 

Lord Cinaed de Moravia asks about the significance of favours.

 

I may be only speaking for myself, But, I consider it an honor to be

asked to carry a lady's favour.  I have several favours on my belt that

I wear from some very wonderful ladies that I have the pleasure of

knowing. I like to believe that because of the respect they have for

me personally, they ask me to carry their favour.  It has to be respect

because as many will attist, I am not that good of a fighter, I am not

a person of title, nor am I a person of power.

 

I asked one of the ladies, whose favour I carry, as to why she wanted

me to carry her favour.  Her reply was simple and to the point.  She

likes the way I treat her with respect and honor, the way I speak to

her, and the way I treat all the ladies that she knows. She also said

that I was kind and gentle and she had a lot of respect for me and the

way I act and interact with others, and as far as she was concerned, I

honored her by carrying her favour.

 

If a lady asks for you to carry her favour, it may be because she finds

you an honorable person in her eyes, and has respect for who you are.

=============================================================

Lord Cahan Kyle of Clan Kyle                  If it's on the plate

East Kingdom                                  it's food, if it moves

MCI Mail 418-0342                             off the plate, kill it

Compuserve 76206,2342                         and put it back on the

internet: 4180342 at MCIMail.com                 plate

         76206.2342 at compuserve.com

                                             Azure, two tusks, tips

Clan Kyle Motto: Bello et Pace Opera          crossed in saltire, Or

=============================================================

 

 

From: fnklshtn at ACFcluster.NYU.EDU

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Period favors

Date: 26 Jan 94 05:07:11 GMT

Organization: New York University, NY, NY

 

In article <2i2hv1$gd0 at scratchy.reed.edu>, odlin at reed.edu (Iain Odlin) writes:

> In the middle of the morass of BoD postings comes a simple plea for info:

> I have seen many references to "favors" given by ladies to their lords,

> knights or suitors in both SCA and Period literature.  The only problem

> is that not one reference I've seen thus far refers to what the favor

> physically (if it was indeed physical...) was.  So, my plea:  Does anyone

> know what some period favors were?  I expect that some were things like

> garters or sashes, but I'm by no means sure.

 

In "The knight of the grail" by Chretien de Troyes, Gawain fought in a

tournament as champion to a girl named "Small Sleeves" this girl gave him one

of her sleeves as a favor (which he pinned to his armour). He was not

romanticaly involved with the girl.

 

Nahum

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: kreyling at lds.loral.com (Ed Kreyling 6966)

Subject: Re: Period favors

Organization: Loral Data Systems

Date: Sun, 30 Jan 1994 15:58:44 GMT

 

In article <2i2hv1$gd0 at scratchy.reed.edu> odlin at reed.edu (Iain Odlin) writes:

> I have seen many references to "favors" given by ladies to their lords,

> knights or suitors in both SCA and Period literature.  The only problem

> is that not one reference I've seen thus far refers to what the favor

> physically (if it was indeed physical...) was.  So, my plea:  Does anyone

> know what some period favors were?  I expect that some were things like

> garters or sashes, but I'm by no means sure.

 

"Favors" were most in favor during the Tournament age. As someone else has

posted, sleeves were used. These were actually fake undersleeves that the

lady would remove  and present to the gentleman (you know, the relatively tight

undersleeves that were under the looser fitting oversleeves of the gown).

Other appropriate tokens would be ribbons, embroidered handkerchiefs, etc.

 

For those in the SCA who are from other time periods, but like the favor idea,

use something appropriate to your persona. In the Viking era, there are

references to woven ribbon bands being worn around a man's  upper arm (maybe

tablet woven trim(?)).  Tying a handwoven band, or geometrically embroidared

band around his arm would be appropriate for my time period.

 

The standard SCA favor has always seemed to be embroidared tokens worn on the

belt, but I think making a persona appropriate one is terrific.

 

Thanks for helping the Rialto remain an information net.

 

Brigit

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Brigit Olesdottir, OL               |Pam Kreyling c/o Ed Kreyling

Shire of Brineside Moor             |Loral Data Systems

Kingdom of Trimaris, SCA            |Sarasota, FL, USA

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

From: Miesje de Vogel (5/20/94)

To: Mark Harris

RE>Favour for Tris

 

Dear Mark,

 

Sure, no problem. I sent this to the Rialto, so I'll forward you that

message below. You've got a file on favours? Want to let me know about stuff

that you've found...please?!

 

And, of course anything else you want, no problem, just let me know.

 

Miesje (a _friendly_ Lochacian, I promise!),  at )---%--

 

BTW. I hope that Tris thinks that the offer is still cute when he has a

massive gothic sleeve to attach to the front of his tunic... he promised

me!

 

----favour file starts here---------

 

Duncan MacAlpin said this:

>PS About these favours you continue to hand out with such gay abandon, is

>this part of some mad scheme to raise an army for Pensic XXV?

 

(tongue in cheek)

 

       What do you mean? Are you implying that every one of my favours is

not heartfelt and meaningful, and wholy appropriate to my persona? And how

many would I need for an army (wicked glint to eyes)?

 

Seeing this comment, and seeing that I've had a few postings from people on

the subject, I feel I really have to make a useful contribution to debate

and compile a work: Treatise on Favours According to Miesje.

 

So here goes.

 

       I. "What is that unsightly piece of ribbon hanging from the fighters

           belt?" - recently asked question by newcomer.

 

       Favours are a token from one person to another. they are a mark of

esteem and respect, and are often something hand wrought or significant to

the people in question. They are also separable into three categories:

favours of friendship, of championship, and of love, and it must be decided

by both parties in question what type of favour is being exchanged. [And

then also there are the belts and such for squires, proteges, and

apprentices. And ones given by Royalty. And womble favours of course. But

they are not the subject of the current debate and should be written by

those who have more knowledge of the things]

 

       1. Favours of friendship: Given to people who you respect, and

whose company you enjoy. For me this is like saying "this person is my

friend, and I'm really proud of them".

       In my case, I met a man at Rowany called Snorri, a Viking, a bard,

a gentleman, and always ready with a hug. Over the course of the week we

got to know eachother, but at the end of the week, we realised that he was

going back to Ynys Fawr (Tasmania) and I was going back to Polit. For those

of you that don't know, this is a distance of several hundred kilometres,

and a sea in the middle. And it was quite unlikely that we would see

eachother again in the near future, ie the next year. So at the end of the

week I presented him with a favour, and he gave me one - a physical token

of our friendship, and a reminder until we next meet.

       

       2. Favours of Championship: Given to those who request them of you.

These are a link between the parties signifying a bond of honour. All

honour that one party wins is to be laid at the feet of the other - and it

works both ways, so the gentleman wins glory for the lady on the field of

battle, and she in turn exemplifies the ideals of a lady. Or the other way

around. It is the epitome of courtly love, in that often there is no more

than friendship and respect, yet you are paying high honour by wearing such

a favour to the lady/ lord in question. This is the sort of favour you take

into the lists Tristan...

       In my experience, the lord will ask for a favour, and the lady will

grant him one for a set period of time (this battle, this day, or for

longer). I do not find it dishonourable to have more than one of these

favours out at a time as long as the fighters in question are not fighting

at the same time. For example, Sir Brusi Anderson has one of this sort of

favour from me, but does not fight on it any longer. I therefore find it

reasonable to grant my favour to another.

 

       3. Favours of love: These are a way of declaring your special

relationship with that special person, and are often a personal token. I

would find it dishonourable to grant more than one of these, but then ,

that's just me. These favours can also be of championship, and one would

hope they were of friendship also, and can often become such favours later.

       Personal info once again- I gave a favour to Lord Loyola Juan

Sanchez Mendosa of this sort, when we started "going out". We have since

"broken up". (as it was a pretty amorphous affair I'm not sure if these

standard terms apply)

The favour then turned from one of love to a sign of our friendship. [Yes

Tris, you are not the only one Romantically challenged]

 

       There has also been in recent times a new phenomenon, the Favour of

Desperation, thanks to a certain whim. as yet though, I do not feel

qualified to talk on this. [All I can say is that I believe that at a

recent lists, a pair of slippers were used as a favour - must have worked,

because they won the coronet lists. ] Perhaps Tristan would like to expand

on the subject, in view of his recent plea and flurry of responses?

 

       II. "Come on in the waters fine..." [to use a famous quote].

       

       OK, Now you know what they are, how about how to make one.

 

       1. What are they? Well, often they are a piece of cross stitch or

embroidery, with a badge, device or some other symbol of the bestower,

hanging from a belt. These kind can be as elaborate or simple as you want,

and are often the most practical kind to make, as most people wear a belt

with their garb. However, I've also seen variations stretching from things

like ribbons, tippets and gloves, to lockets, silly hats, and real sleeves

detatched from garments (my personal favourite as it really shows that the

person is wearing your favour if you wear only one sleeve). They are often

done in people's colours, and have some device/letter/picture/inscription

which links them to the bestower.

       Now, you may be thinking that all this is fine, but I don't have

the skills/time to make something. Well, this is not true. a favour is

something which represents you, and is therefore whatever you want it to be

- plaited ribbon is quick easy, and a very good favour. On the other hand,

don't be put off trying something more complex, as its really satisfying to

see something you've worked on being used in such a wonderful way - even if

you don't think it looks good, the spirit behind the gift often make it

more appreciated than what it actually is.

 

       III. So whats behind all this?

 

       Right, a little history on the things. Originally they were

sleeves, gloves or scarves given as favours in tourneys, possibly stemming

from good luck charms given to loved ones that were going off to war. If

you want to find out more, just check out any books on courtly love, as

they'll often describe more than I could put down here.

 

       IV. Disclaimer: Favours can be bad for your health...

       However, you'll also come across interesting stories. My favourite

is one of a lady who sent a chemise to each of the fighters in a particular

tourney, bidding them to wear this as protection instead of armour. One of

the younger fighters actually does so, and he wins. He then staggers back,

wounds everywhere, to the lady who then promptly agrees to marry him. I

wonder if he lived long enough...?

       And from Geoffrey TQ:

       A little warning on seeking favours :

The following is a summary of a section of "Tirant lo Blanc", a book

written by two Catalan knights and published in 1490. It provides ample

evidence that stickjocks then were totally and utterly barking mad. It also

has a great many good bits - if people express interest, I may post some

more stories from it.

 

Background : Tirant lo Blanc is the hero of the book; currently he is in

England, in a courtly setting. He approaches the daughter of the Duke of

Berry, Fair Agnes :

       "My knowledge, sweet lady, of the beauty, grace, wisdom and other

virtues that dwell within a body more angelic than human, obliges me to

serve you, and therefore I beg you to grant me that brooch between your

breasts, which I shall proudly wear in your service and honor, fighting to

the utterance with any knight, on foot or horseback, armed or unarmed, in

the manner of his choice."

 

[she accepts and :] "I permit you to take the brooch with your own hands."

 

Next day, a knight named Lord Barrentowns visits Tirant and tells him to

relinquish the brooch, willlingly or by force, as he has "loved, served and

worshipped this lady who is worthy of all good things" since he was a lad.

 

Tirant, being a stickjock, refuses : "Should I ever do such a thing, may I

be crowned with a flaming helmet."

 

[There is a brawl, in which twelve knights and gentlemen are slain before

the two are separated. Barrentowns challenges him to a duel. There follow

three pages of ludicrous courtesy, offering each other choice of weapons,

judges, etc. Eventually they agree on conditions :

"I propose that the duel be fought on foot with French linen shirts, paper

bucklers, garlands of flowers, and nothing else. The weapons shall be

double-edged Genoese knives, a foot and a half long and with well-sharpened

points."

 

[The usual "If you don't want to fight, you can pull out now" - "No ! I'm

better than you are !" By the way, a paper buckler is exactly what it

sounds like.]

 

They fight; Tirant hits his foe on the ear, almost reaching the brain; the

other stabs him in the thigh and left arm, eventually Tirant stabs him

through the heart; as he's dying Barrentowns drives his knife into Tirant's

head. nearly killing him. Their friends rush over and start killing each

other for possession of the body and the near-corpse.

 

And so, perhaps you should think very carefully about granting favours.

 

(Does anyone want to hear how Tirant fought a mastiff ?)

 

       Thanks Geoffrey, nice and positive...

 

       Well, that's all I have to say on favours, so, _do_ make them, have

fun making them, and have wearing them. They are a wonderful way to add to

the pageantry of the whole game that we play...

 

Miesje.

 

PS, Please feel free to change this, flame me, add some, whatever. I'm

learning all the time...

 

[PPS. I haven't given out that many favours, have I?

Let's see:

Friendship: Snorri, Loyola JS Mendosa, Simon Macfaelin, Phillipe du Lac Bleu.

Championship: Sir Brusi, Tristan Clair de Lune, Gunther Freud.

Love: none outstanding at the moment.

See dad, I'm not in the stakes for an army yet, let alone trying to get

them all to the same event!!!]

______

d9304570 at student.anu.edu.au - Known as Miesje de Vogel in all realities.

 

 

From: iys6lri at mvs.oac.ucla.edu (Lori Iversen)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Q:Need help with making a favor for a Lady fighter

Date: 27 Mar 1995 20:51:35 GMT

Organization: ucla

 

In article <3l5bmq$a7q at newsbf02.news.aol.com>, vasyl at aol.com (Vasyl) says:

>I would really appreciate suggestions on making a favour for a lady-friend

>of mine...

>Bogdan Kobzar

Alexis here!

 

My husband (the big sap) made me an escutcheon-shaped favor to hang

from my belt out of his old [leather] vambrace; he cut a striking

eagle grasping a heart out of another piece of leather, carved our

initials in the heart, and glued the eagle motif to the escutcheon.

Then he made a belt-sized loop out of yet another piece of leather and

rivetted that to the back of the escutcheon.  Voila!  A very butch-

looking favor that fairly screamed "I was made by a guy -- or maybe

a very macho babe!"  It's all old and beat-up now, and getting a little

fragile, but I'll keep it forever in my memory chest.

 

Alexis Vladescu                            Lori Iversen

WyvernHo-ette                              (IYS6LRI at mvs.oac.ucla.edu)

Altavia, CAID                              The Valley, CA

 

 

From: LFHS72A at prodigy.com (William Mackenzie)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Q:Need help with making a favor for a Lady fighter

Date: 3 Apr 1995 03:19:24 GMT

Organization: Prodigy Services Company  1-800-PRODIGY

 

M'Lord Bogdan, unto you I send greetings.

 

In times past I was fortunate enough to have a Lady pledge her sword to

me and wrestled with the favour problem myself.  In an attempt to make a

token that was both beautiful, and masculine (as the lovely embroidered

favour that I wore in her name was feminine) I turned to leather and

metal, two mediums in which I had some experience.   I fashioned a scrap

of leather into a favour, and decorated it with brass (a replica of my

own devise).  Painting on the leather would be period also, I think.  I

used a scrap dyed in my primary tincture.    Hope I helped a little.

 

Your's in the name of the Society, Uilleam Waylander

 

 

From: rudi3964 at utdallas.edu

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Single Fighters

Date: 9 Nov 1995 11:05:33 -0600

Organization: The University of Texas at Dallas

 

Brent L. Woods (woodsb at indy1.uucp) wrote:

>      On an tangent unrelated to the previous topic...  What if one has

> no one to fight for (or, has no token to carry)?  Should that person not

> enter the list at all?  Should that person be barred from fighting?  I'm

> curious about this...

 

In Crown list, yes, such a person is barred from fighting.  In most other

lists, in Ansteorra at least, it is assumed that each fighter is carrying

someone's favor.  In my first heavy list, I committed the faux pas of

entering without carrying a favor.  Between the first and second rounds

the Crown Princess (who didn't know me from Adam's off ox, except that I

had just tried to defeat her lord the Prince in the first round) called me

over and said (among other things) that she saw that I had no favor to

carry. She asked me if I would honor her by carrying *her* favor for the

rest of the day.

 

Is there anybody whose favor you would like to carry?  Anybody who you

think is special, and who impresses you with her bearing and honor?  Go

up to a lady you admire (I don't care if she's married), kneel at her

feet before the tourney, and say, "Milady, I have no lady of my own to

fight for this day.  But in your gentle smile, even at your own lord,

have I seen inspiration.  Would you honor me by allowing me to fight for

you in today's list?"  (Don't use my words -- use your own.  Use true

ones.)

 

If there is nobody there that you care enough to fight for, why are you

here? (Note: I did not ask why you fight, but why you hang around so

many people you don't like?)

 

You have somebody to fight for; you have many people to fight for.  You

just haven't found them yet.  Just don't confuse that with your social life.

 

Good luck!

Robin of Gilwell/Jay Rudin

 

 

From: blacksca at aol.com (BLACKSCA)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: favors

Date: 9 Feb 1996 00:58:35 -0500

Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)

 

>>> 

I was wondering if anyone could help me...I'm looking for information

on favors. I have a Viking persona--is there a type of favor that would be

particularly appropriate? Thank you.

--

**************************Lara Olstad**************************

*RPI, Class of 1999.    *    SCA  -  Shire of Anglespur!      *

<<<< 

 

My lady,

 

One or two come to mind, I've tried the following;

 

A lock of Hair

jewelry

   Rings of gold

   Armbands & Bracelets

   Necklaces

 

My personal favorite, (although some people will probably object) ermine

skins.

These tokens feel  just a little more 'Early Period' to me. My lady very

much enjoys her ermine, at least as a conversation piece.

 

Hopefully helpfully

Dan Halfhand

 

 

From: thomasdc at msn.com (Thomas Zadlo)

Subject: RE: favors

Date: 11 Feb 96 20:21:30 -0800

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Organization: The Microsoft Network (msn.com)

 

Allthow I can't point out what would be period for you, the best

advice I ever received concerning favors I will most happily pass

along. "It is not the form but the intent"  By this my advisor meant

make it mean somthing to you, even if it that meaning is not readly

aparent to everyone else.

 

The most personal favor I have ever heard of being given was made out

of the remains of a piece of langeri (sp?) that the couple had worn

to shreds (just how they did this was not my place to ask) but they

were loth to part with it.  Gives new meaning to recycling.

 

As for the favor that my own dear one wears, it is a small pouch with

my arms embroidered on it, large enough to hold his qual. cards, a

small snack and a compass so in the event that our Royalty are not

present he can find which way East is to make the appropreate salute.

 

I hope this advice will help.

 

Yours in Service to the East,

Iseaulte Blaecstan, Clan Kilkenny

 

 

From: ianengle at freenet.columbus.oh.us (Ian Engle)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: favours

Date: 1 May 1996 09:01:19 -0400

Organization: The Greater Columbus FreeNet

 

Granola365 (granola365 at aol.com) wrote:

: I would like to get an idea of what people really think of favours.  I

: have heard that some people hold them in high reguard, as others think it

: is just another something to place on their belt while it holds their

: fancy.  

: Can someone clarify this for me?  I would really like to know what people

: think.  

: *Besides, I won't make one for the lord in my life until I have an idea

: what gentlemen generally think of them.

 

        I've never carried a favour and probably never will -- I don't fight.

But I have made favours in my 18 years in: four in fact.

 

        First for Faoli who fought for me in Commoner's Crown Tourney --

may she forgive me THAT favour!

        One for Aibhinn ingen Flannicainn because she fought for my love,

Dougal, in real Crown Tourney.

        One for Selimah of the Mystic Waters because she fought for me,

same venue.

        And one for Dougal MacFindlay because he couldn't fight for me.

 

        One of these is still worn into the lists.

 

        I also remember sitting dumbfounded at a baronial meeting many

years ago when an imported-from-out-of-kingdom knight took the ladies of a

barony to task because the baronial fighters were not carrying favours

from the baronial ladies.  We were using the same words to refer to the

same objects, but obviously we recognized different reasons for these

objects to be made and given.

 

        Give a favour to one who fights for you -- however YOU want to

interpret that -- and give it as a solemnly and as earnestly as you can.

Never be tempted to trivialize a favour made or given.

 

                                      --Sion

 

 

From: baron at sauron.hacks.arizona.edu (Baron Jonathan)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: favours

Date: Wed, 01 May 1996 11:42:47 -0700

Organization: Barony of Tir Ysgithr, Kingdom of Atenveldt

 

In article <4m77ec$869 at newsbf02.news.aol.com>, granola365 at aol.com

(Granola365) wrote:

 

> I would like to get an idea of what people really think of favours.  I

> have heard that some people hold them in high reguard, as others think it

> is just another something to place on their belt while it holds their

> fancy.  

 

Greetings all from Jonathan,

 

I, personally, hold a favor in very high regard.  If you'll notice I said

'a favor' as I believe that one should only bear one at a time.  The

person from whom you carry favor (from my perspective as a fighter) is the

person you will put upon a throne should you win a Crown or Coronet

tourney. It is the person that inspires you to win and whose honor you

carry with you upon the field.  To wear more than one would devalue the

role of the favor as a symbol of support from your consort.  Before the

flames about this begin, let me just say that I can see instances where

bearing 2 favors would be appropriate (ie. your wife is not qualified to

be a consort for some reason, yet approves of you fighting for another,

for love you carry your wife's, for honor the consort's) or (ie. your

lady's favor and perhaps the favor of the Queen or Princess for being a

member of her court/guard, although I don't see these as favors but as

pieces of livery).  My Lady has taken tokens of friendship (termed

'favors') from others but will not wear them on her belt, but instead ties

them to the handle of her basket or her goblet...making it look like the

microphone stand for Aerosmith's lead singer (you know..the one with all

the scarves tied to it).

 

Note: this is a personal choice and I do not look disapprovingly on others

personal choices in this regard, wear as many as you can get on your belt

if you like, it's just hard to tell who you are fighting for...

 

just have with the game

 

Jonathan :)

 

ps. I know a gentleman who had to carry a 4 lbs. sledge from his belt for

months because he lost a lady's favor...it was a nice sledge though with a

chromed head and well polished handle

--

+------------**Baron at Sauron.HACKS.Arizona.EDU**------------+

|     Baron Jonathan Thorne      |  Ermine, on a lozenge   |

|   - Baron of Tir Ysgithr      |    gules, a knights'    |

|         (Atenveldt)            |       chess piece       |

| -Lord of House Argent Horse   |         argent.         |

+- http://sauron.hacks.arizona.edu/~chrome/jonathan.html --+

 

 

From: lobel at is.nyu.edu (Sheldon Lobel)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: favours

Date: 2 May 1996 23:23:36 GMT

Organization: New York University

 

I think this is a good post to work off as it gives me much to discuss

without having to present from scratch.

 

Baron Jonathan

(baron at sauron.hacks.arizona.edu)

wrote: : In article <4m77ec$869 at newsbf02.news.aol.com>, granola365 at aol.com

: (Granola365) wrote:

 

: > I would like to get an idea of what people really think of favours.  I

: > have heard that some people hold them in high reguard, as others think it

: > is just another something to place on their belt while it holds their

: > fancy.  

 

I think that there is not enough interest in the SCA in looking at

favours in a period manner and, I believe that developing in this

department would be fruitfull.

On a personal note, I've given up on expecting a favour from my wife (but

she's not much of a medievalist so what can I do).

 

: Greetings all from Jonathan,

 

: I, personally, hold a favor in very high regard.  If you'll notice I said

: 'a favor' as I believe that one should only bear one at a time.

 

"a favor" is periodly definable in several ways, as such it may be

apropriate to carry (note - I do not say "wear") several.

 

The

: person from whom you carry favor (from my perspective as a fighter) is the

: person you will put upon a throne should you win a Crown or Coronet

: tourney.  It is the person that inspires you to win and whose honor you

: carry with you upon the field.  To wear more than one would devalue the

: role of the favor as a symbol of support from your consort.  Before the

: flames about this begin, let me just say that I can see instances where

: bearing 2 favors would be appropriate (ie. your wife is not qualified to

: be a consort for some reason, yet approves of you fighting for another,

: for love you carry your wife's, for honor the consort's) or (ie. your

: lady's favor and perhaps the favor of the Queen or Princess for being a

: member of her court/guard, although I don't see these as favors but as

: pieces of livery).

 

You are, I think, much closer to a medieval view in your parenthetical

aside then you are in your main section.

The Token worn into battle in a visible way does not have to have any

value for you outside of the fight. It is the mark of the person who you

champion in that Tourney which can mean many things.

You could be the full time champion of a particular lady. This lady may

well be maried to another person and therefore it would be inapropriate

for there to be any romantic involvement with her. (this is, for example,

Lancelot's OFFICIAL position in many of the romances)

You could champion a lady for the particular Tournament. Thus, for

example, Gawain takes the sleeve of the Damsel with the Small Sleeves not

because he has any romantic interest but because everyone else present

thought he was a bum, while she had faith that he was a great knight (he

was in disguise at the time) so she called him over and asked him to wear

it.

You could, of course, be fighting for your one true love - but the fact

that you wear a favour from someone does not indicate that she is or

isn't - simply that you are her champion in this particular tournament

or even as a general matter. You certainly would not imply that the

Knights of the Garter are all the queen's lovers.

 

My Lady has taken tokens of friendship (termed

: 'favors') from others but will not wear them on her belt, but instead ties

: them to the handle of her basket or her goblet...making it look like the

: microphone stand for Aerosmith's lead singer (you know..the one with all

: the scarves tied to it).

 

There is also nothing (medievally) special about the belt as a place for

favors. They were worn on lances, helmets, or any other item of dress or

equipment that would ensure them being seen. In fact, the belt is a bad

place for this sort of favour, as the favor may not be noticed.

 

Further, there are other types of favors which are much more intimate -

and therefore more clearly have to do with love - these seem generally

neglected.

This is because they are not seen by most.

Thus you have the classic lock of hair, or the kerchief which the lover

keeps near his/her heart. You also have the special article of clothing,

made as a labor of love by your beloved, or a special piece of armour

obtained by your beloved - this will also go unrecognised

by most as a favor (only by the one who counts and an intimate group of

friends). The ring or necklace is also something of this type - a special

keepsake.

 

The keepsake type favors are both more intimate and more widespread

historically then the "identifying tag" type. The later is solely the

artifact of a tournament society - and is solely of use in one.

(but then, the SCA may be said to amount to merely a tournament society)

 

Note, however: None of these are exclusively from lovers. The keepsakes are

also given by siblings or parents.

 

: ps.  I know a gentleman who had to carry a 4 lbs. sledge from his belt for

: months because he lost a lady's favor...it was a nice sledge though with a

: chromed head and well polished handle

 

Good penance!

Did his pants stay up?

 

Nahum ha Kuzar

 

 

From: "Otelio S. Randall II" <randallt at skycell.com>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: favors

Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 16:45:28 -0400

Organization: Italia Online

 

> In article <4m77ec$869 at newsbf02.news.aol.com>, granola365 at aol.com

> (Granola365) writes:

>

> >I would like to get an idea of what people really think of favours.  I

> >have heard that some people hold them in high reguard, as others think it

> >is just another something to place on their belt while it holds their

> >fancy.

> >Can someone clarify this for me?  I would really like to know what people

> >think.

> >*Besides, I won't make one for the lord in my life until I have an idea

> >what gentlemen generally think of them.

> >

> >thanks for your help.

> >Larisa

> >My Lady,

 

Your questions is more likely to get you as many different answers as there are

people who read the Rialto.

 

Favors/Tokens can mean different things....here is a short summary of the

favors I wore at Pennsic XXIV in the order I received them:

 

#1 - Barony of Storvik          At the time I had contracted to fight at the

war for Storvik

#2 - Baroness Storvik:  Her Excellency gave her personal favor to everyone who

fought for her barony.

#3 - Personal Friend:   We had been helping eachother through rough points in

life, therefore I carried her favor, and she carried mine...both showing that

we were eachother's emotional wellbeing champions.

#4 - Personal Friend:   Every member of our household carried the favor of our

"little sister", the sister of one of our knight's squires...who did a lot of

garb for us when we were starting out.

#5 - Our Knight:                Everyone in our household wore a favor/token

with our knight's colors on it.

#6 - Queen of Atlantia: I am an Atlantian fighter, and thus I wore the Queen's

favor to display my loyal service to her.

#7 - Household:         As leader of a particular unit, I was presented with a

favor that heraldicly displayed my unit's nickname

#8 - Queen of the East: Atlantia fought on the East's side that war, thus I was

in service to the East's queen as well.

#9 - Personal Friend:   Simply because my friend had asked me.

10# - Newbie:           There was a newbie at her first war AND first event in

the next encampment. she asked me to carry it, so I did, flattered.

#11 - Bee Sting Kit:            Not really a favor, but several people stop me

and mention the fantastically coloured favor on my person

 

#13 is the most important, and is the only favor I have NOT removed from my

belt, and for the forseeable future, will continue to wear and for the

following reason.

 

While preparing for the field battle, I asked my Lady for a bit of ribbon in

her colours to carry as a token of her on the field.  She requested that I

close my eyes, I heard a snip, and when I opened my eyes, she placed a lock of

her beautiful red hair into my hands.  I took this lock of hair and stumbled

around our encampment dumbfounded (my lady and I had barely begun dating at

this point) Two of my Clan sisters took the lock from me, and braided it with

some ribbons that were in her colours, and attached a cloth rosette to it.  I

first wore the lock of hair pinned to my gambeson.  Later after nearly panicing

over losing it, My lady presented me with a green leather talisman pouch to

keep the lock safe in.  That talisman pouch now stays securely tied to my belt.

It has left my belt only once, and that was for a demonstration we did for a

cub scout pack, and she re-presented the favor to me, explaning to everyone

what was inside.

 

My lady has become my closest friend, source of inspiration, support, lover,

and she has opened my eyes to a different view of life in and out of the

Society. For as long as we are together as a couple, I will wear that talisman

pouch on my belt. I will wear it because we both have duties that sometimes

require us to be in different locations at events, with the pouch on my belt, a

part of her is with me always both literally and symbolically, just as my heart

is always with her.

 

However Lady Larisa, none of the above applies to you and your situation.  The

best answer I can give you is to figure out what favors/tokens mean to you,

what they mean to your Lord, and what the giving and carrying/wearing of them

mean to the both of you.  The views and opinions of everyone else in the world,

myself included do not matter much in the end, because I will not be wearing

your favor, nor will anyone else.

 

I hope that is of some help to you....

 

Yours,

 

Boroghul Khara/Grey the Succinct

Barony of Ponte Alto, Atlantia

 

From: kolton at arizona.edU (Jason Kolton)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: favours

Date: 19 May 1996 01:03:34 GMT

Organization: The University of Arizona

 

Lyle McNeal (lmcnea1 at zeus.towson.edu) wrote:

: Clare ni Mhaille (sneezy at darkwing.uoregon.edu) wrote:

 

: : This brings up a question:  do only fighters receive tokens or is it

: : appropriate to give favours to anyone?

 

:       I recieve a favor from my lady.  Since I don't fight, as of yet,

: I find it as a badge of love and trust that she has bestowed upon me.  

: The design that she used I feel is clever.  It is a small pouch which I

: can hang on my belt that has her device on the front of it.  I am proud

: that she took the time to "tag" me and wear it all the time.

 

:                                Lyle McNeal                          

:                         lmcnea1 at zeus.towson.edu                        

:                     http://zeus.towson.edu/~lmcnea1                                                                 

 

I can only speak for what they mean to me.  I have recieved favours from

both friends and signifgant others.  I currently only carry 2 favours on

my belt.  One is from friend who no longer plays...it was the first

favour I ever recieved and its signifigance transcends the SCA.  She and

I both know that she can call on me day or night if need be.  The other

favour I carry is from my SCA daughter. No explanation neccassary there.  

I dont neccasarily feel that you need be a fighter to carry a favour.  A

favour says that this person, who's favour you do bear, is important to

you and you would defend them in whatever way needed.  It is thier 'tag'

of trust in you and your honour.  I would also add, to those who would

recieve favours, that you believe in the person that you are taking the

favour from.  It is not something to be taken lightly.   I add this on

due to the fact that I was recently faced with the choice of taking a

favour or not, and to be honest I find it to be one of the hardest choices

I have had to face in my time in the SCA.  I have yet to make a final

decision. It is hard for me because when I wear a favour it is saying

that I hold that person's honour as dear to me as my own.  Ah, well, I am

rambling.

Have fun, smile, be nice, share, and know that the answer is 3.  What the

question is I have no idea.

 

Lord Jason Thorne

Kingdom of Atenvelt

Barony of Tir Ysgithr

 

 

From: dcamville at aol.com (DCamville)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: favours

Date: 19 May 1996 00:25:33 -0400

Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)

 

Greetings....

 

On the subject of favors I agree with Lord Jason Todd.  A "Favor" is a

symbol of someone honor that you have been trusted to carry...a pretty big

responsibility. I have also heard that folks will use the term "favor" to

describe a physical representation of a relationship, in one its many

forms. Usually the "favor" has some perminence and is "long lasting" in

it's nature "Token" I have also heard used.  Usually a "token" is a

"mini-favor" and even though the "token" carrys great responsibility the

"relationship" is usually lighter in nature.  This is what I was told a

number of years ago...my personal views vary from this.

 

Anyone...to my knowladge can wear a favor.  Just be sure that the one

carring the favor will bring it and you, honor.

 

Cheers,

Viscount Richard de Camville

 

 

From: Christine <Christine at netreach.net>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Favors

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 01:25:29 -0500

 

jones at ns.noahsinternet.net wrote:

>      My husband is a fighter for Ironlance.  He said he'd like

> me to make him a favor for him to wear into battle.  Since I am

> new to the SCA, I'm not quite sure what would be appropriate, not

> to mention strong enough to hold up in battle.  I am an avid beader,

> and I do a little weaving.  Any suggestions from other crafters

> in the society?

 

My lady,

 

A favor can be as simple as a piece of ribbon in your favorite color or

as elaborate as the one my own lord carries with him.  It consists of a

pouch embroidered allover with my device into which I place a small

snack to keep his strenght up and a compass so that he will all ways

know what direction to salute in case the royalty or I are not present,

and it is also usefull for holding his qual card. I think a piece of

your weaving that is big enough to tie on his person or be sewn into a

loop to place on his belt would be wonderful.  There are no set forms

for favors but anything that you have put your time and effort into

creating will carry with it all your affection for your lord.

 

I hope this helps.

Lady Iseaulte Blaecstan, Clan Kilkenny, OM

 

 

From: Christa Fulton <crealtor at ix.netcom.com>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Favors

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 22:10:35 GMT

 

In addition, A friend of a friend of mine has a card in his breast plate, Its says simply,  "Love You" from his lady.   I think its a realy nice touch every time he/she gets in to the armor, they are reminded that there is someone rooting for them.

 

I'm planing on putting my lady's favor in my breastplate next to my heart.  

 

 

From: David Johnson <MOHAWK5 at postoffice.worldnet.att.net>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Favors

Date: 17 Dec 1996 03:28:31 GMT

 

jones at ns.noahsinternet.net wrote:

>     My husband is a fighter for Ironlance.  He said he'd like

>me to make him a favor for him to wear into battle.  Since I am

>new to the SCA, I'm not quite sure what would be appropriate, not

>to mention strong enough to hold up in battle.  I am an avid beader,

>and I do a little weaving.  Any suggestions from other crafters

>in the society?

 

M'Lady,

 

   I apologize because this will not be of practical help but may amuse

all the same. My daughter is five years old and just this past weekend,

one of our local lords fought in her honor at a Rapier event. He had

fought for her once a couple of years ago and she gave him the ribbon off

her teddy bear at that time. For this event I cut out a strip of white

felt and let her have at it with markers. I then glued one end over for a

belt loop. He escorted her up to be presented to the Prince and Princess

of Northshield and one of her playmates wanted to go to so I showed her

how to hold up my daughters skirt just a bit as if it were a train.

   Authentic? Quite probably not but adorable as all get out and a good

example of the extended family nature of the SCA that I have always loved

most.

 

Kathryn Fletcher

 

P.S. Back when I was quite new, I made a favor for the man who ultimately

became my husband. I made the mistake (?) of embroidering a grouping of

three feathers that looked too much like a fluer de lis (sp? sorry.) The

poor endured an awful lot of kidding about fighting for the Prince of

Wales!

 

 

From: Aleq <aleq at SpiritOne.com>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Favors

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 16:04:54 -0800

 

> jones at ns.noahsinternet.net wrote:

> :      My husband is a fighter for Ironlance.  He said he'd like

> : me to make him a favor for him to wear into battle.  Since I am new

> : new to the SCA, I'm not quite sure what would be appropriate, not

> : to mention strong enough to hold up in battle.  I am an avid beader,

> : and I do a little weaving.  Any suggestions from other crafters

> : in the society?

 

Might I suggest the highly decorated glove?  Quite period (depending on your

persona/l timeframe, of course, but definitely period) and can be very sturdy,

especially if you use a fine leather glove and then embroider and bead it.  

Basically, a favor is what you want to make and how you want to make it, favors are very personal and as such tend toward the eclectic.  For a lover/husband, I like to make very elaborate favors which contain personal touches--initials, favorite colors, locks of hair, etc.  

 

If they don't hold up forever in combat, oh well... you can always make a newer, spiffier one which utilizes skills you've learned in the interim...

 

Adellind le Quintain

 

 

From: jeffebear1 at aol.com

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Favors

Date: 1 Jan 1997 09:07:46 GMT

 

hamilton at adi.COM writes:

 

>However, the most common favor is a strip of cloth embroidered with some

>design. The strip is looped through a belt or tied around the upper

>arm in most cases.  You could use beadwork to decorate it, but I fear

>the beads would fall off and you'd spend a lot of time on maintenance.  

>A small piece of your weaving should be just fine, and if you want to

>decorate it somehow, you can.  Fabric can be painted and appliqued as

>well as embroidered.

 

I embroidered and beaded a piece of velvet for one of my first Lords. I

soon learned he wore it during heavy fighting and he was terribbly upset

at the way it became dirty so he washed it with hand soap...... The next

fight was the end of my now crushed velvet look favor and all the beads

left fell off and it shredded with a good "hip" shot.

I then made a cross stitch favor with metalic threads mixed with my floss

for glitz. I sewed the old favor inside the new and it's lasted a long

time. Save the beads for the "court" favor. A nicely embroidered sleeve

cuff will button over a belt nicely also.

 

Lady Morigianna

 

 

From: margali13 at aol.com (Margali13)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: A favor/hair

Date: 13 Feb 1997 12:16:18 GMT

 

Good question. I have a similar problem with a twist. I am early celtic

and have a hank of my hair, but the only way I can think of to use it as a

favor is to braid it into a grommet or circle, tucking the ends in so they

are hard to see, and then tacking it to a piece of embroidery like a round

picture frame and wear it like a regular favor. The second way would be to

keep it in a neat braided hank and tie each end off neatly, and tuck it

through an armband or into your belt or cuff. I have absolutely no

documentation, but knights are illustrated with cloth favors tied around

the upper arm, or tucked into armor bits. Anybody else have a clue?

 

margali of dragons aerie

 

 

From: buglow <buglow at soundcom.net>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: How to honor my Lord....

Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 09:03:21 -0700

 

Bryan J. Maloney wrote:

> For a lady to bestow her favor upon a man is more honor than any man ever

> deserves.  To smile upon him indebts him for the rest of your life.

>

> Bryan Maloney

> Yes, I really *am* that severely married...

(smiles) Giving him my favor was no small thing. After I made it, I was

not able to bestow it upon him for several days, I wore it myself every

day until I could personally place it upon his belt. He is the grace

upon which I have hung my honor, and he has not been found wanting in

any way. If nothing he himself has laid honor after honor at my feet.

So yes, I understand how you feel about your beloved. Romance is a

lovely thing isn't it??? (It's nice to see I'm not the only one...  )

:)

I thank you for your letter my Lord...

Sabine

 

 

From: ladypdc at aol.com (Lady PDC)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Favors

Date: 2 Apr 1998 05:58:56 GMT

 

>I am looking for idea's for favors to give to fighters. I am in a predominatly

>fighting household & since my lord fights I would like to give him a favor to

>carry on the field but I have no idea what to use/make. I can sew & embroider

>so it is just the idea's of what to use that I need.

>Adrianna Hawke MacLaren MacKinnon

 

I have heard of many different types of favors.  Everything from simple ribbons

and detachable sleeves to elaborately embroidered items.

 

One thing to remember is that this will be worn on the field where it could be

chopped at, slashed at, and just plain smashed.  So make it sturdy.

 

In my case I wanted the favor I gave my Lord to be special and to have personal

significance. I made him a black leather pouch with a belt loop at the top.

The top of the pouch has small grommets through which I threaded leather thong

to hold it closed.  Within the pouch I placed a lock of my hair braided with a

silver ribbon and formed in the shape of a heart, a dried and waxed petal from

the first rose he ever gave me, a clip of fur from our dog, and a sprig of

thyme. I told him that this way he would carry with him our family (the dog),

the knowledge that time spent together was our most precious asset (the thyme),

my undieing love (the rose petal) and my heart (the braided hair heart).  On

the outside of the pouch I painted his device and told him that it was there so

that he and his actions could always protect and defend what was within.

 

I believe that the most important thing about a favor is that it be special in

some way, appropriate to the person receiving it, and reminicient of the person

giving it.

 

Constance De LaRose

Debbie Snyder

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 19:57:18 -0800

From: Heather Senkler <wl835 at victoria.tc.ca>

Subject: Re: Favors

 

On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Andrea Hicks wrote:

 

> What about those who want to make a favor for someone other than their

> spouse?  Not all favors have romantic connotations.  Suggestions?

 

I made a very meaningful favour for a very good friend. It was made of

scraps from my fighting tunic (strength) an embroidered flowering bush

(growth) and a harp (music) because she had helped me in all of these

aspects and more. I made it with care. SHe accepted it with pride. And she

wears it every event.

 

To me a favour is a token to someone you care about, whether filios, eros,

or agape.

 

Ekatarina Borisovna

 

 

From: savaskan <savaskan at sd.znet.com>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Favors

Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 11:31:56 -0800

 

Adrianna34 wrote:

> I am looking for idea's for favors to give to fighters. I am in a predominatly

> fighting household & since my lord fights I would like to give him a favor to

> carry on the field but I have no idea what to use/make. I can sew & embroider

> so it is just the idea's of what to use that I need.

 

My favorite favor I ever gave was a sleeve embroidered in latin with a

romantic motto.

 

The favorite favor I ever received was a  glove with the fighter's arms

painted and tooled into it.

 

I've found that it helps if the favor is not too delicate. As a fighter,

it is embarrassing if the favor is messed up while fighting.

 

Juliana

 

 

From: Larry Johnson <ljohnsn1 at idt.net>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Favors

Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 11:17:01 -0700

 

> My girlfriend gave me her favor to wear a few months ago.  However, we broke

> up.

> I hold her in very high esteem, but I don't think I should carry it.  What

> should I do?

 

In my humble opinion, you should keep the favor as a rememberance in a small

keepsake box.  As you are not seeing each other, I would not wear the favor, it

would put a damper on any other fine damsel to give you a favor of theirs.

 

Yours aye,

Labhruinn MacIain an Mor

 

 

From: "The Shrew ~~~~~( 8:>" <shrew at peak.org>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Favors

Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 19:44:14 -0700

Organization: Shrewsbury Renaissance Faire

 

Good morrow, Master Rugged!

Regardless of SCA or Rennie, to return a ladies' favour, for *whatever* reason, is a great insult to her.  So keep it safe for fond memories.

Huzzah! Play Faire!

the Shrew ~~~( 8:>

--

Web Page: http://www.peak.org/shrewsbury/

Email: shrew at peak.org

Shrewsbury Renaissance Faire

 

 

From: "sunshinegirl" <sunshinegirl at steward-net.com>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Favors

Date: 9 May 98 06:23:33 GMT

Organization: Southwestern Bell Internet Services, Richardson, TX

 

> > My girlfriend gave me her favor to wear a few months ago.  However, we broke

> > up.

> >

> > I hold her in very high esteem, but I don't think I should carry it. What

> > should I do?

 

I was always told there were three main meanings to favors;

1. Favor of commitment  i.e.  spouse, significant other, girl or boy friend

2. Favor of friendship

3. Favor of the day

 

If you have broken up, you are no longer carrying a favor of commitment,

however, you are still on good terms and you esteem her.  You may wish to

carry it, if she permits,  as a friendship favor.  If she did not ask for

it back, and your relationship memories are good, by all means keep it as a

remembrence.

Melandra of the Woods

 

 

From: "Morgan E. Smith" <mesmith at calcna.ab.ca>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Favors

Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 09:07:53 -0600

Organization: Calgary Community Network Assoc.

 

> Regardless of SCA or Rennie, to return a ladies' favour, for *whatever*

> reason, is a great insult to her.  So keep it safe for fond memories.

 

> the Shrew ~~~( 8:>

 

INTERKINGDOM ANTHROPOLOGY ALERT!!!

In An Tir, unless things have changed greatly, this is not the case.

You may give a favour back if the relationship has changed or is

irrevocably broken, but you must do it with courtesy and not in a spirit

of vindictiveness.

IE "My lady, I have always treasured the mark of favour I have carried

for you. Yet life has changed for both of us, and it no longer means what

it once did. With sorrow, I ask you to take it back."

The lady (or gentleman - I've gotten favours from guys, myself) is also

free to say that although she no longer feels as she once did, she wishes

you to carry it in remembrance of times past. You pretty much should do

this.

What neither of you should do is treat it like a mundane engagement

ring and throw it back in the giver's face, nor should you attempt to pawn

it for quick cash.

Morgan the Unknown

 

 

From: hayroll at aol.com (HayRoll)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Favors

Date: 09 May 1998 16:15:02 GMT

Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com

 

I still carry the favor of a lady from the West for whom I am very fond.

 

She spent a great deal of time embroidering it -- almost the whole time we were

together.

 

We ended up splitting up, and I offered to return it, and she told me to keep

it. I now wear it in honor of one I hold great regard for; though we never see

each other at all anymore (especially since I'm in the Mid and she's still in

the West) it is a favor of friendship, not of promise or love.

 

OTOH, Two months ago I suffered a neck injury and may never be allowed/able to

fight again, so everything is rendered academic...

 

Effingham

 

 

Subject: RE: BG - Favors?

Date: Tue, 16 Mar 99 09:21:01 MST

From: Elisabeth Zakes <ezakes at planview.com>

To: "'bryn-gwlad at Ansteorra.ORG'" <bryn-gwlad at Ansteorra.ORG>

 

On Tuesday, March 16, 1999 3:37 AM, Chris Yone

[SMTP:cyone at sprd1.mdacc.tmc.edu] wrote:

> Could someone tell a naive lass more about favors -- What are they made of?

> How/when are they presented to a fighter?  Does a fighter ask the Lady or does

> the Lady ask the fighter?  Are they to hang from a belt or tie to ones

> arms/armor?  I think I remember stories of anything from a chemise (in a

> scandalous story) to ribbons, scarves, and flowers given as favors.  I realize

> some of it is up to the creativity of the fighter and lady, but some basic

> guidelines would be nice to start from.  It might be fun to have some sort of

> contest concerning favors...

> Kirsten MacDonald

 

A favor can be made out of anything that pleases you. One favor I have

from Tivar is my marshalling staff. It is equally okay to ask or be

asked. One thing to keep in mind is the usefulness of the favor to the

person carrying it. A belt favor doesn't do much for someone who doesn't

wear a belt. It was popular in period to tie something around the upper

arm of a heavy fighter as a favor.

 

Note that lords can give favors to ladies, too!

 

There are also several sorts of giving: a friendship favor for the day,

a permanent friendship favor, a favor until a task is completed, a

lover's favor...  Use your imagination here, and whatever fits the

people and the situation.

 

Aethelyan

 

 

Subject: Re: Re: BG - Favors?

Date: Tue, 16 Mar 99 11:32:10 MST

From: Aceia at aol.com

To: bryn-gwlad at Ansteorra.ORG

 

A really neat one I once saw was a lady who made a really nice heraldic

dress for a special event.  She took off one of the sleeves and attached

it to her fighters shield.  She wore the dress all day with one sleeve

off and her chemise showing.  Then after the tourney, the fighter gave

her her sleeve back(very beaten and tattered) which she then reattached

to the dress and that dress became her favor from her fighter.  She wore

those battle scars proudly.

 

-Robin

 

 

Subject: Re: BG - Favors?

Date: Sun, 21 Mar 99 22:19:37 MST

From: Brent Hanner <behanner at mindspring.com>

To: bryn-gwlad at Ansteorra.ORG

 

Here is a mention of a favor from "Service of Ladies" by Ulrich

von Lichtenstein,  a 13th century german knight.

 

"One knight, of whom I'd heard, was there

who had with him his lady's veil.

He'd want to tourney without fail.

 

Sir Otte von Spengenberg was he,

a noble knight, who rode toward me

with gleaming armor, richly dressed

as fits a lady's suitor best.

His trappings glittered far and wide,

around his helmet there was tied

a veil of an expensive kind,

and thus came he a lofty mind.

 

We both would serve a lady dear;"

 

Peder

 

 

Subject: [Fwd: Re: On Favors]

Date: Wed, 05 May 99 12:04:09 MST

From: rmhowe <magnusm at ncsu.edu>

To: JCarlson at firstchurchtulsa.org, MelanieWilson at compuserve.com,

     stefan at texas.net,

     "Mark.S Harris (rsve60)" <rsve60 at email.sps.mot.com>

 

Subject: Re: On Favors

Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 10:19:09 -0400

From: Beth Morris <bmorris at iamdigex.net>

To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org

 

Poster: Beth Morris <bmorris at iamdigex.net>

 

Thank you Donal, for your *excellent* article on favors!

 

There is one thing mentioned which I would like to add to.

 

Donal writes:

 

> In the Current Middle Ages, the custom has developed of making special

> objects specifically called "favors" that are given to a fighter or fighters

> for several reasons.  <snip>

 

This is true, and well and good, but the tea-towel favor -

 

> most commonly a favor takes the form of a

> rectangle of fabric with some decoration identifying the bestower, and

> sometimes, especially in the case of "Romantic" favors, the one wearing it

> as well.  Usually worn tucked into a belt or strap, they will often have a

> loop at the top for extra security. <snip>

 

bears little or no resemblance to *anything* described in period

literature, illuminations, etc.  This is one of those cases where with a

teensy bit more effort on the research end (and frequently significantly

*less* effort on the construction end!) one can produce a marvelous,

original and period favor (and here I commend me to Her Gracious

Majesty, the Queen - if any of you have seen the sleeves she has granted

to His Majesty and to Her Champion, you will understand my point).

 

> Lacking a prepared favor, a lady might

> improvise.  She might give the fighter a bit of ribbon from her hair or a

> sleeve (not a whole sleeve, please, ladies, the chance of damage is too

> great!), a scarf, or some other thing that would not itself be at risk or

> place the wearer at risk.  For that reason, a piece of jewelry in not a good

> choice.

 

Here Donal provides a couple of examples that will also make good

'permanent' tokens as well.  A pair of sleeves, with one made especially

for giving and the other to be worn by the lady?  I cannot imagine a

more elegant statement of devotion!  In some Middle Eastern cultures, it

was customary to give one's lover the elaborately woven drawstring of

one's loose trousers - an easy item to make, and one both intimate (to

those who know) and period!  In one medieval romance, the lady even

gives the gentleman a silk chemise, which she has briefly worn next to

her skin - he wears it over his armor in the fight!  While that might be

a bit much for some, there are other options described in manuscripts -

veils, scarves, jewelry, gloves.  What about a lady's leather garter

>from her hose?  Even a stocking itself (and we're talking sturdy woolen

or silk ones, not a nylon!)?  The lacing from one's gown - perhaps a tad

intimate, but also convenient.  A linen cap (one that you don't care

will probably be ruined)?

 

Donal warns against jewelry, and in principle I agree with him, but

there are certainly ways to make jewelry into a favor safe to wear upon

the field - rings, rings made into brooches, collars of maintenance,

cast badges (excellent for households!).

 

I encourage all who are inspired by Donal's article and by the love of

that gentle who fights in their name to do a tiny bit of homework and

truly give their love a splendid (and period) favor.

 

Keilyn

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Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 09:07:33 -0800

From: Susan Fox-Davis <selene at earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Homecoming

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

Please tell him that kingdoms in the SCA are honouring returned veterans

of all eras.  Drop a note to your local Crown and see if your kingdom

has such a program;  I know about those in The West and Caid for  

certain.

 

I sent an embroidered favor to a Marine tank driver of my acquaintence.

 

After Gulf War I, he met with me and presented the favor to me covered

in tank oil and glory;  I bade him keep it as a sign of my never-ending

esteem.   It has been to the Middle East and back twice now and he is

still alive and well.

 

Joy and honour to your house,

Selene

 

> Hello to all ... just had to share this *very* exciting news:  after

> 374 days in beautiful downtown Baghdad, my son-in-law arrives home

> tonight!  There's going to be celebrating tonight, you betcha.   ;)

> Anne

 

 

From: "willowdewisp at juno.com" <willowdewisp at juno.com>

Date: August 30, 2006 5:55:35 PM CDT

To: ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org

Subject: [Ansteorra] Favors for Elfsea Ladies Pavilion

 

Lady Delorise, Greetings from Duchess Willow de Wisp

 

I hope you will not mind if I open up this question to some of the Ladies I have asked to take part in the Elfsea's Ladies Pavilion.

 

What should the favors we give out at the Pavilion be like? In historical times a favor was a favor was a favor. Whether an intimate, personal thing like a lady's silk shift that had been worn next to  her body or a piece of cloth torn in the heat of moment off a dress they were still a "favor". In the SCA we have separated  the "Favor" a Lady gives her Lord and the favor token. While in the middle ages the favor one gives to a lover should be guessed at, like having the same colors as ones dress but should never give away the actual identity of the Lady the "Favor" in the SCA is often includes the arms of both people linked forever and shouts to everyone who can knows heraldry who are the parties involved. This kind of "Favor" is almost a contract and should not be given or received unless both parties understand the commitment.

 

The token favor is less serious thing. This is what we are mostly giving out at the Ladies' Pavilion. Of course, some Ladies may be giving out personal intimate tokens, but most of the time the purpose of the favors are to promote Chivalry and courtliness and to encourage the fighters on the field. It is serious in one way because it does involve giving and taking the honor of another person. When a Lady gives a small f favor she is entrusting that individual with her honor and now their actions on the field reflects on the Lady. Her trust is very special and in all cases with which I am familiar has bought out the best in the individual. I am sure that somewhere somehow this hasn't been true, but I like to live the dream so please don't disillusion me. Because the small favor is not a token of eternal love it is proper for it to be simple. Simple ribbons of your favorite color or colors are just fine, but some ladies make them fancier. The Ladies of Lindenwood had lace favors that they had made. The Caldal ladies made cords in our colors. I have given feathers with ribbons on them. I have given out silk flowers. One lady gave out cookies. It is proper for a gentleman or lady to wear all the token favors he/she has gotten. Yes, it is proper for a Lady to give a Lady fighter a token. In the Kingdom of Ansteorra it is perfectly proper for men to give out favors. We are encouraging the high ideals of our kingdom and it is always proper to do so. Because part of activity is to wear the favor it is good idea that your favors can be worn. The cookies didn't survive being worn. I give out pins once. This turned out badly because the pins were broken by the blows and the pin part speared my gentles that wore them. Please keep practicality and safety in mine while creating your favors. Ribbons should be long enough so you can tie them, but not so long as a fighter would kneel on them if he/she goes down on their knees. Pins should not be long enough to inflict damage. Soft is good. We don't want little hard things flying off and getting in peoples eyes. Please realize that your favor might not survive the activity so don't put anything on it you treasure too much.

 

Traditional the "Favor" should be returned after the tourney or when the relationship ends. Token favors are not returned. Fighters take great pleasure in wearing and keeping them as keepsakes. I have known fighters that have given silk flowers that I have given them for 20+ years. If you want your token favors returned to you make sure you state that fact when you give out the tokens.

 

Knowledgeable gentlemen will try to return the token favors after the Tourney. Courtly ladies will give them permission to wear them as a sign of honor. This Courtly behavior at its best giving us a chance to flirt a little in a honorable way.

 

To Cap the points

 

simple is good

ribbons and flowers open

individualizing is all right, but don't go overboard

make them safe and not get in the way of the fighting.

 

Duchess Willow de Wisp

First Queen of Love and Beauty in Ansteorra

 

 

From: "Shali" <shalimariah2000 at yahoo.com>

Date: June 11, 2010 10:16:25 AM CDT

To: trimaris-temp at yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [tri-temp] Royal colors?

 

There are lots of other things to wear though.

 



I remember when I once broke a shoelace and one of my 
new friends was grinning from ear to ear, duly mocking 
me for this colorful and annoying mishap and so I held 
it out to him and said "Please accept this as a token 
of my esteem."

 

OH GOSH that got me into hot water...
he got all kinds of happy and said "A favor for me? 
Thank you! I will keep it forever" and I was like..
 "Say What? What are you talking about?" And he told me
 about these little things called favors and I was truly 
horrified that he intended to keep and wear that shoelace
 as a favor so I asked for it back and said I would make 
something better.

 

I mean, gosh, I can't have someone 
going around wearing a broken shoelace as a favor for
 heavens sake!!! He said he would give it back to me 
later and he made a favor using the shoelace as part of
 a favor for me. Just goes to prove you gotta be careful 
about what you say and especially if you are unfamiliar with
 the customs like favors and other stuff.



 

Shalimariah


(I miss my friend... James crossed over May 2009)



 

 

To: Authentic_SCA at yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: Favours for a Fencer

Posted by: "Karen" karen_larsdatter at yahoo.com Karen_Larsdatter

Date: Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:58 am ((PDT))

 

Elizabeth asked:

<<< So has anybody got evidence would be a period appropriate favour

(ignoring debates about whether a man would carry a favour in the SCA

sense, especially when fencing) for a 16th century persona that I can

make using my fabric related skills. >>>

to which Adelicia responded:

<<< M'lady, if I may be so bold, I think the perfect thing would be an

embroidered glove!

"Give me your gloves, I'll wear them for your sake..." Shakespeare, Merchant

of Venice >>>

 

I'd agree with Adelicia's recommendation, and I'm going to also point you at a

16th century portrait -- that of George Clifford, Earl of Cumberland -- where

he's wearing a glove that was given to him, apparently by Queen Elizabeth

herself, in his hat:

http://www.wga.hu/html/h/hilliard/clifford.html

 

You can find more 16th century gloves linked from

http://larsdatter.com/gloves.htm of course; scroll down to the section of the

miscellaneous five-fingered gloves for many examples.

 

Another possibility would be a handkerchief (again, going back to Shakespeare

for inspiration -- there's the "Handkerchiefe spotted with Strawberries" in

Othello); you'll find several embroidered handkerchiefs linked from

http://www.larsdatter.com/handkerchiefs.htm which may inspire you.

 

Karen Larsdatter

www.larsdatter.com

 

 

To: Authentic_SCA at yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: Favours for a Fencer

Posted by: "Jennifer Kobayashi" jhkob at yahoo.com jhkob

Date: Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:03 am ((PDT))

 

So has anybody got evidence would be a period appropriate favour

for a 16th century persona that I can

make using my fabric related skills.

 

A handkerchief, glove or sleeve, come to mind.

 

A handkerchief as favor plays an important part in Othello.

The Merchant of Venice quote for gloves has previously been posted.

I can't think of a 16th century reference for sleeves off hand, but sleeves were

certainly given as favors in earlier times and I believe still in the 16th cen.

 

-Jennifer/Gwendolyn of Middlemarch

 

 

To: Authentic_SCA at yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: Favours for a Fencer

Posted by: "Schrecht" schrecht at yahoo.com schrecht

Date: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:55 am ((PDT))

 

<<< My lord has recently asked me for a  favour that he can carry when

fencing. It didn't occur to me before but I'm  trying to think of

something at least somewhat period appropriate to give him  as a

favour. I have somewhat limited embroidery skills (so far my  only

successful attempts have been counted blackwork) almost all of my  SCA

efforts tend towards garb making.

 

So has anybody got evidence would be a period appropriate favour

(ignoring debates about whether a man  would carry a favour in the SCA

sense, especially when fencing) for a 16th  century persona that I can

make using my fabric related  skills. >>>

 

Excellent question, and congratulations for choosing to avoid the tea towel.  In

addition to the glove, sleeve, and handkerchief already mentioned, Elizabethans

wore a lot of rings, and gave them as tokens of friendship and more.  Rings

didn't even have to fit: men sometimes wore a lady's ring on a ribbon, or pinned

to a sleeve.  There are several portraits of men in Elizabeth's court wearing

them - Sir Henry Lee is one.  

 

And something I haven't seen used as a specific mark of favor in period, but

which works quite well, is garters.  They were near-ubiquitous in period, but

are often omitted in our game.  Make them up with a nice pair of reproduction

silver buckles, and even without the tea-towel-style embroidery, you've given

him something special and improved his kit.

 

Jost

 

<the end>



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