Russia-msg - 4/6/07
Russian and Kievian Culture and language.
NOTE: See also the files: fd-Russia-msg, Rus-Handbook-art, Rus-women-art, Russia-bib, Kiev-Slavery-art, Mongols-msg, Mongl-Mission-art, cl-Russia-msg.
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This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
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Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: kpayne at heartland.bradley.EDU (Kevin Payne)
Date: 22 Oct 91 04:06:12 GMT
Greetings to the Rialto from the long-absent Nikolai
Kyrilovich Khorobrit! Now that I have caught up on my
reading, I should like to post a few thoughts.
A couple of weeks back there was some discussion about the
role of the Scandanavian races in Russia, and of chivalry in
Russia. Someone at the time stated that the Swedes
conquered Russia, and I thought I'd better correct this, as
well as some other items that my study and research show
to be misinformation.
My sources are:
Volkoff, Vladimir, "Vladimir, The Russian Viking", Overlook
Press, Woodstock, New York, 1984
Fennell,.J.L.L., "Ivan the Great of Moscow", Macmillan & Co., New
York, 1961
Cross, Samuel Hazzard and Sherbowitz-Wetzor, Olgerd, trans.
and ed., "The Russian Primary Chronicle - Laurentian Text",
Medieval Academey of America, Cambridge, Massachusetts,
1953
The story is that about 800 A.D. or so some of the Slavic tribes
of the northern Russian plains (the town of Novgorod in
particular is named), despaired of the great upheavals and lack of
law and order in their lands, and so sought the aid of a group
of Viking princes (Varangian Russes), the chiefest of which was
Rurik. This Rurik became the first Prince of Novgorod and is
said to have founded the first royal house of Russia (and there
are only two: the Rurikids, who died out in the 17th century
and were replaced by the Romanovs).
In a nutshell, that is the legend of the "calling of the princes",
and Russian history is generally traced from this point. But
there is sizable disagreement over the nature of the Rus. One
school (Norman) asserts that the Rus were a Scandanavian tribe
related closely to the Swedes, Angles, and Varangians who came
into Russia and imprinted their values and beliefs on the
Russian nobility. The other (Slavic) refutes this, claiming
instead that the Rus were Slavic in origin, with perhaps a
smattering of Scandanavian elements.
All of my sources disagree on the origin of the Rus. The
Primary Chronicle claims that Rurik and his two brothers were
from across the Balticand were indeed Vikings; archaelogical
evidence seems in many cases to point to the Slavic theory.
In any case, there WAS siginificant contact between the Slavic
tribes and Scandanavian groups, especially the Swedes. The
Varangians are known to have traveled the river routes from
the Baltic to the Black Sea to Constantinople regularly during
the 9th through 11th centuries, and the first Russian empire
centered on Kiev was a great trade city on those trade routes.
The Arabs too were involved in trade through the region.
Throw in the almost incessant incursions of nomads from the
east (Polovtsians, Khazars, eventually the Mongols) and you
have a real melting pot.
HOWEVER, Russia was never "conquered" by the Swedes or any
Scandanavian group, nor by the Byzantine Empire, and indeed,
never by the many nomadic tribes until the Mongol Horde in
the 13th century. In fact, the Viking element (assuming that it
existed and influenced the Slavic folk) appears to have done
what it did in places such as England: i.e., merged into the
mainstream of the "common" people.
The second question was about the nature of chivalry in Eastern
Europe, Russia in particular. Given the close contact between
the Scandanavians, the fact that the cities of northern Russia
(Novgorod and Pskov in particular) were members of loose
trading confederations based in Germany (eventually the
Hanseatic League), and Kievan Russia maintained distinct ties
with Byzantium as well as the lands westward of Kiev, it is
obvious that Russia did not exist in a vacuum.
I haven't done any specific reserach on chivalry in Russia, but
can point out that the "bogatyri" were great knights who
participated in fantastic adventures and apparently strove to be
brave, strong, and defenders of the weak. Many of them are
legendary (Ilya Murametz, Svyatogor the Brave), but later ones
are better documented and more historical in nature. I think it
is probably safe to say that there was some conception of
chivalry in Russia, but it was uniquely suited to the unique
challenges of the land.
These facts are as true as I can relate them. The opinions are
my own. Correspondence with someone more educated in
Russian history and culture is appreciated. Corrections
appreciated as well. For good historical fiction partly about
period Russia, read "Russka" by Edward Rutherfurd, 1991 from
Crown.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Nikolai Kyrilovich Khorobrit, Bard
Reluctant Pursuivant Far Reaches, Middle Kingdom
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From: cav at bmerh364.BNR.CA (Rick Cavasin)
Date: 5 Dec 91 21:56:01 GMT
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Unto Alison MacDermot does Lord Balderik send his greetings.
For some interesting info on personal communications, see
Novgorod the Great, M.W. Thompson Frederick A. Praeger, New York
A large volume of birch bark manuscripts (spanning the middle ages)
have been unearthed in Novgorod. They are mostly 'spent' messages.
They include personal communication between family members, messages
from landowners to overseers, children's lessons and doodles, etc.
The script is an old form of cyrillic.
Regards,
Balderik
From: fnklshtn at axp1.acf.nyu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Russian sources??
Date: 14 Nov 93 02:17:30 GMT
Organization: New York University, NY, NY
bpung at phoenix.cs.uga.edu (Benjamin Pung) writes:
>I am a relatively new member, though I've been acquainted with the SCA for
>years. I'm working on the name/persona thing and am looking for good sources
>for applicable Russian history, customs, costume, etc.
>Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
>Ben Pung
>Barony of Bryn Madoc, Meridies
The Russian Chronicle - a history written as things happened (ends, I believe,
in 12th century).
Read the fairytales and Sagas. I think they were collected and written down
after the revolution but the peasants were fairly "backward" -- Peter the Great
modernized the nobles by bringing in European culture but the nobles basically
became French rather than combining it to make a new Russian culture, thus the
peasants retained what had been before.
Watch the old soviet movies - "Alexander Nevski" "Ivan Grosny" "Andrei Rublev":
I noticed the credits on Andrei Rublev - they included three history experts as
opposed to one costume designer. I believe the same may be true for the other
two movies though "Alexander Nevski" is a propaganda piece as is "Ivan Grosny"
(though not as blatant).
Andrei Rublev is probably the best one - a poignant, no-holds bared portrait of
15th century Russia (through the eyes of the artist - Rublev)
Nahum
From: mcs at unlinfo.unl.edu (M Straatmann)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: kvas reference
Date: 29 Nov 1993 22:46:24 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln
In my last post discussing kvas with Balderik, I promised the
reference and then promptly forgot to include it. Here it is:
Bread and Salt
A social and economic history of food and drink in Russia.
R.E.F. Smith and David Christian
Cambridge University Press 1984
ISBN - 0 521 25812X
Good book,
misha
From: goldschm at ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Paul Goldschmidt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Russian Names
Date: 30 Nov 1993 22:36:35 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
I seem to have missed the thread on this subject, but I heard that
my artcuile from the symposium was mentioned and I thought that I
would mention that a revised version of it is being carried by
Folump Enterprises, 805 E Green, Urbana IL 61801. The cost (I
think) is $5, but you can write for info.
I also have a list of cities and towns in medieval Russia which I
can send to interested parties at cost, and I am working on a list
of Russian medieval saints (good for documenting Christian names).
Meanwhile I have been slaving away on a dictionary of given names
(with around 12K entries so far -- heading to 40k). I'm even starting
work on a much expanded piece on Russian medieval grammar for
Onomastics.
You can reach me at GOLDSCHM at vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (which is not the
address I am writing from). I'm hardly ever on the Rialto, so don't
try writing me here.
-- Paul Wickenden of Thanet
From: pwgg7938 at uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Paul W Goldschmidt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Russian Names III
Date: 1 Dec 1993 01:07:07 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
finally found the thread.
I feel obliged to respond to the person who said that Russian had not
changed that much since 17th century. I wiowould agree that it has
b not changed much sinmce 1720, but that is post period. Older
Russia texts (11-15th century, for example) are usually in Old Church
Slabonic (Slavonic -- I was transliterating) [God, I hate the editor
on this machine! Anyway....] The old docs are in OCS which is VERY
different from Modern Russian. Never mind that some period manuscripts
are written in latin letters (which is VERY painful to read). As for
the Names....well, they are also very different. The modern form
(given name-patronymic-surname) exists, but it not common. Patronymic
grammar was also highly variable (I've documented at least a dozen
different tyoxxxxx tupes [arg!!!] TYPES [!] of patronymics).
If you want to know about this, write me on my OTHER account (the one
with the friedly -- fried.....FRIENDLY!!! editor that does not make me
look so bad :< :" :'
goldschm at vmd.cso.uiuc.edu
-- Paul Wickenden of Thanet
From: sclark at epas.utoronto.ca (Susan Clark)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Kievan Rus' Bibliography.....
Date: 25 Jan 1994 15:45:42 -0500
Organization: EPAS Computing Facility, University of Toronto
Greetings....
And now, a month after I first said I'd post it, here's my
introductory bibliography for the study of early Russia--
Cross, S.H. and Sherbovitz-Wetzor, O.P., eds. _The Russian Primary
Chronicle, Laurentian Text. Cambridge, MA, 1953.
Fedotov, G. _The Russian Religious Mind: Vol I: Kievan Christianity: The
Tenth to the Thirteenth Centures_. Cambridge, MA, 1946.
Fr.Chirovsky, Nicholas. _An Introduction to Ukrainian History_, Vol.I.
New York, 1981.
Michell, R. and Forbes, N. trans. _The Chronicle of Novgorod, 1016-1471._
Camden Third Series, Vol. XXV. london 1914.
Riasanovsky, Nicholas V. _A History of Russia_. New York, 1984.
Thompson, M.W. _Novgorod the Great_. London, 1967.
Tikhirmirov, M. N. _The Towns of Ancient Rus'._ Moscow, 1959.
Tkach, Yuri. _History of Ukrainian Costume._ Melbourne, 1980.
Vernadsky, George. _Kievan Russia_. New Haven, 1948.
________________. _Medieval Russian Laws._ New York, 1947.
Volkoff, Vladimir. _Vladimir, the Russian Viking_. Woodstock, NY, 1985.
Zenkovsky, Serge A. _Medieval Russia's Epics, Chronicles, and Tales._
New York, 1974.
More may be added as my research progresses--there is no book on here
which I have not personally read. All these books are in English and
some are available in bookstores. My apologies for not providing
complete publisher info--e-mail me if you need it.
Tonight I give the first meeting in preparation for the Novgorod event.
Were it not for my great love of history and the people of the SCA,
I think I would have dropped this organization forever about 15 minutes
ago.
St. Doug, protect us.
Nicolaa/Susan
Canton of Eoforwic
sclark at epas.utoronto.ca
From: pyuaq at csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr G S Sutherland)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Christianity Quiz...
Date: 17 Mar 1994 13:01:59 -0000
Organization: University of Warwick, Coventry, UK
Susan Clark (sclark at epas.utoronto.ca) wrote:
+ 13.) When did st. Vladimir Convert Russia officially to Christianity?
+ (Bonus points for anyone who can tell me why he supposedly did so)
It was somewhere around 988.
Why? Firstly, it was to bring the Rus into the European political
sphere. Since they were a bunch of heathens (Good on them!) they were
ostracised by the Christian kings who shared their borders. Apparently the
choice of religion was taken from the following list:
Roman Catholicism (Rejected because there was no glory in its
worship.)
Islam (Rejected because the Rus would have to give up drink. But
Vladimir did like the multiple wives teaching... )
Judaism (Rejected because the Khazars lived in poor conditions.
Ergo it was interpreted as them not having God with them.)
Eastern Orthodoxy (Accepted because of the glory of the churches,
and the beauty of the liturgy.)
Part of the agreement of the conversion was that Vlamidir would get
to marry the Emperor's sister (or other female relative - I can't remember.)
She was especially prized since she was born in the palace at Byzantium. (I
don't know why this was though.)
Unfortunatly the Emperor in Byzantium did not appreciate the demands
that the Rus' church would be autonomous from the central church, and that
Vladimir wished to marry his sister/whatever. Hence he refused to send priests
to carry out the conversion. In retalliation, Vladimir attacked, and conquered
the Crimea, and captured a number of priests to do the conversion for him...:)
He then ransomed it back to the Byzantines so that his demands were carried
out. Eventually the Rus managed to get converted, and he was canonized many
years after his death. (Russia's first saints were Boris and Gleb - Vladimir
wasn't promoted for so long because he had annoyed the Byzantines so much with
the above...)
Graeme
From: sclark at epas.utoronto.ca (Susan Clark)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Nifty Book...
Date: 22 Mar 1994 00:21:17 GMT
Organization: EPAS Computing Facility, University of Toronto
Greetings....
While digging for yet more books on Medieval Russia, I found
the following:
_The Archaeology of Novgorod, Russia_, Mark Brisbane, ed.
(Society for Medieval Archaeology monograph series #13. Lincoln:
Soceity for Medieval Archaeology, 1992. ISSN 0583-9106)
For those of you who have seen M. Thompson's _Novgorod the Great_,
this is sort of the sequel--it's an update of the dig in general, including
stuff that's been found in the nearly 30 years since the publication
of _Novgorod the Great_. Great drawings of all kinds of *stuff*, including
combs, shoes, keys and locks, weapons, jewellery, house foundations,
musical instruments, etc. etc. Novgorod is an extremely damp site
(they built log houses rather than dug-out houses like in Kiev because of
this), so wooden objects have been preserved reallly well.
Have fun....
Nicolaa/Susan
(who's feeling very Russian since the heralds in the fencing tourney
at Ice dragon kept calling me "Nicolai")
Canton of Eoforwic
sclark at epas.utoronto.ca
From: etchman at shell.portal.com (Philip - Tuley)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: russian info
Date: 30 Jun 1994 18:31:16 GMT
Organization: Portal Communications Company
Susan Rachel (Susan.Rachel at f555.n387.z1.fidonet.org) wrote:
: I'd like to apologize to everyone who has patiently awaited the arrival of
: this biliography. I really hope that you all find it worth the wait!
: These are the books that we own. Consult the bibliographies in them and you
: should have a HUGE overall bibliography to choose from. Enjoy!!
: Kazimir Petrovich Pomeshanov
: mka Brent Rachel
: (and his lovely assistant on keyboards this evening, Cathlin mka Susan
: Rachel)
: ---------
: Fidonet: Susan Rachel 1:387/555
: Internet: Susan.Rachel at f555.n387.z1.fidonet.org
Hello to the tallest damn Russian I ever met and his most lovely lady!
Being *somewhat* interested in the subject, but not from the Russian
standpoint but rather the Zhaprozian Cossack view, I'd like to suggest one
more book.
The Cossacks, By Philip Longworth, Holt, Rhinehart & Winston, 1969,
LCC# 75-80353.
This book gives some insight into the early cossacks (late 15th and 16th
centuries) and then goes on into the rest of Cossackdom history. The only
down side for me is that it doesn't focus enough on Zhaprozian cossacks.
(In fairness, it splits pretty even with the Don cossacks, but I'd rather
it included more about my particular area.)
There are other sources, I'll try to post them later.
Aleksandr Ivanovich
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| Philip J. Tuley | Lord Aleksandr Ivanovich | "... and the angels had |