other-groups-msg - 7/6/00 Other groups similar to the SCA. NOTE: See also the files: LivHist-bib, LivHist-msg, SCAguests-msg. Keywords: SCA Living History re-enactment ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with seperate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the orignator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: Lord Stefan li Rous mark.s.harris@motorola.com stefan@florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: dleland@dante.nmsu.edu (LELAND) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Heraldry questions Date: 7 Apr 1993 19:52:53 GMT Organization: New Mexico State University, Las Cruces, NM Thanks for the response. In regards to stains, no, I'm well aware of the bad connotations in having deep red and orange in your heraldry. The problem is that a lot of people have expressed very strong interest in making heraldric devices for their personas in Amtgard, but they do not want to be stuck with the seven basic colors. I am trying to make a system of heraldry for Amtgard that is more equitable to non-european and fantastic personas, which Amtgard allows for. By the way, Amtgard is a group formed in El Paso Texas ten years ago (big celebration this year) from a lot of ex-SCA people who were having problems with the old "authenticity" issue. Basically they wanted to use lighter weapons, have some form of battlefield magic and non "real" (whatever that means) personas. Im not going to start an Amtgard vs SCA fight here, I respect the SCA too much for that. I merely hope that I could get some good ideas from heraldry folks in the SCA for this issue. In service to his Grace, Duke Sir Greywalker of Dragonspine I remain your servant, Andacar of Keccia of the Wardancers dleland@nmsu.edu From: sjvn@access.digex.com (Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Those Two Chucks Date: 7 Apr 1993 22:48:48 -0400 Organization: Express Access Public Access UNIX, Greenbelt, Maryland USA While I'm no expert on the Tuchux, my household, the House of the Drunken Badger, has long been friendly with the Tuchux so I know something about them. The Tuchux are into their own unique combination of barbarian recreation with a touch of fantasy, martial arts, and their own highly developed sense of honor (which isn't at all like the SCA's.) They also have a very 'earthy' sense of humor. An important point to remember is that just as SCAians play the game of 'freak the mundanes,' the Tuchux can and do play the game of 'freak the SCAians.' One frequently misunderstood point, however, is that the Tuchux do call their warriors, dogs (who may be women) and non-fighting women, wenches. Hence, when a Tuchux calls a SCA type a SCAian dog, it's almost never meant as an insult. When they want to insult you, trust me, you'll know. The Tuchux have been around for I believe about twenty years. It's my understanding, someone else I'm sure will know, that the Tuchux actually have been at the Coopers Lake site for longer then the SCA. Thus, the reason why they remain in possession of their site on Tuchux hill. Many Tuchux partipate in SCA events and combat, and indeed many of them are SCA members. The Tuchux have many events exclusively their own. Besides events that would be very familar to most SCAians, they also tend to have theme or quest-oriented events. These are almost all restricted to Tuchux or very close friends only. When the Tuchux fight in SCA events they stick to SCA rules, though generally speaking they take much lighter blows then SCAians do. They also have their own fighting rules, which allow more legal types of blows and tends to be more rough and rumble. Alexius Stephanovich -- Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols sjvn@access.digex.com Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: icklinck@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca (Ian "Rhys" Klinck) Subject: Re: Those Two Chucks Organization: University of Waterloo Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1993 23:04:41 GMT In article <1q03qg$83a@access.digex.net> sjvn@access.digex.com (Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols) writes: >The Tuchux have been around for I believe about twenty years. It's >my understanding, someone else I'm sure will know, that the Tuchux >actually have been at the Coopers Lake site for longer then the SCA. >Thus, the reason why they remain in possession of their site on >Tuchux hill. Many Tuchux partipate in SCA events and combat, and >indeed many of them are SCA members. Well, in discussion with His Grace, Duke Finnvarr (King of the East at, I believe PW IV, King of the Middle once since, and one of the very few to have attended every Pennsic War) at this past Pennsic, he said that this rumour is patently false. He said that he knew the person who "discovered" Cooper's Lake as a site for War. (The quote did come up in the conversation, and I don't remember who said it... "If they were here first, do you think they'd have let US in?") 'Course, this leads to an interesting story from last year's AEthelmearc War Practice, at Cooper's Lake in May. We got to know the camp staff fairly well that weekend, as we spent much time on their phone with a local garage ( :-( ). One day we went up to make some purchases, and they told us they had some complaints from some (mundane) campers (the 'Lake's only about half ours during the War practice...) about noise the night before, "and we were wondering whether we should go and tell these people that they weren't welcome to camp here, but then we realized it was just the 'Chux." Dilestair fid dy hynt, ac ni rusia ddim rhagot! Rhys ap Bledri (icklinck@cayley.uwaterloo.ca) From: David Schroeder Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Tuchux Origins Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1993 23:31:56 -0400 Organization: Doctoral student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Greetings good gentles -- I was hoping someone more closely connected to such things would comment on the origins of the Tuchux, but since I have not yet seen such a post I will share my limited understanding of the circumstances. A mundane martial arts instructor (John Hamilton?) had (and still has, I believe) a dojo in the Pittsburgh suburbs. This instructor adopted the persona of Wolf the Mighty and founded the Tuchux, made up of his students, in time to take them to Pennsic III, held the weekend after Labor Day at a site near Pittsburgh. That should place them back at least as far as 1977 or so... Of course, my copy of "Nomads of Gor" (where the name comes from) has a copyright date of 1969... For a long time almost all the Tuchux lived within a circle with a 100 mile radius centered on Pittsburgh, but now a number have moved elsewhere in the Known and the mundane world. The stories about Tuchux with cellular phones calling their brokers from Pennsic are true, but dogs and wenches have the same spectrum of occupations as most SCA members. They do have their own events and are much less into compulsory organization than we are. There are half-a-dozen or so Tuchux clans, each with a clan leader. Wolf "died" many years ago and the 'chux figure out who their new top leader is by some system I'm not aware of... Hope this sheds some light on the subject, folks -- Bertram +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ Bertram of Bearington Dave Schroeder Debatable Lands/AEthelmearc/East Carnegie Mellon University INTERNET: ds4p@andrew.cmu.edu 412/731-3230 (Home) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: nusbache@epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher) Subject: Re: Tournament Societies Organization: University of Toronto - Contractor Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1993 21:45:41 GMT In article <3309131504071993/A00789/POSSE/117723B32300*@mrgate.uwyo.edu> D. Frazier ----- (NAME \) writes: >I don't really want to clutter up the net, while so many intresting >things are being dicussed. But could someone put me on the right track >about SCA Fighting\Tournament Societies? I've read the T.I. info and have >heard both good and bad on the subject. Please e-mail me at : >Galen@corral.uwyo.edu. The 1st quarter 1993 issue of _Chronique_ has a splendid article on a tourneying society in California which exists mostly within the SCA. Chronique can be had from: Ms. Ann-Marie Storz 1134 Tamalpais Place Hayward, CA USA 94542 (510) 888-1405 Australians should contact: Mr. Richard Lesee POB 436 Hindmarsh South Australia, 5007 Information on the Company of St. George can be had from Mr. Brian R. Price at the first address. Aryk Nusbacher Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Arval d'Espas Nord) Subject: Re: Tournament Societies Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 19:16:56 GMT Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Greetings from Arval, Balance King of Arms! Galen wrote: > But could someone put me on the right track about SCA Fighting\Tournament > Societies? I've read the T.I. info and have heard both good and bad on > the subject. I am happy to provide information on the Company of S. Michael of the Balance, a tournament society in the East. Later this week I'll be posting an announcement of our passage of arms, to be held at Pennsic. =========================================================================== Arval Balance mittle@watson.ibm.com Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: steffan@world.std.com (Steven H Mesnick) Subject: Tuchux Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 04:35:01 GMT I would urge the Lady who complained about Tuchux not to condemn an entire group for the actions of a few jerks. There are a lot of misconceptions about these folks, and a couple of years ago I had an opportunity to get my consciousness raised about them. I was attending the royalty and the Princesess of the East and the Queen of the Middle accepted an invitation to Tuchux Camp at Midnight. We went in procession, and were met graciously by Sparrowhawk and his council of clan leaders, who gave a presentation on the history and culture of the Tuchux. These folk noble a Renaissance Italian if they're so inclined. We may not like their group persona, but they hold it better than we do. They are also (surprise!) not a bunch of bikers, but rather, generally yuppies -- one of their clan leaders is a concert pianist. They have laws, and lore, and culture. It's just not *ours*. They don't believe in our concept of Chivalry -- they speak their minds, and don't hold anything back. As Chivalry is our escape from the Mundane, so straightforward-ness is theirs, I suppose. Also, like us, their leaders and founders are noble and honest folk, but, like us, there are members of their club who Just Don't Get It. I'm sure that their leaders, if made aware of the behavior previously described, would be quite upset and would sternly punish the offender. Also, *PLEASE* keep in mind that not everyone in leather and fur is a Tuchux. There are an awful lot of Tuchux wannabes out there. A *real* Tuchux can be distinguished by a tattoo (temp or permanent) of what might be called mascle ploye conjoined to an increscent and decrescent.. Also, the warriors wear facial "scars" of differnt colored paint. I am decidedly *NOT* a Tuchux and do not speak officially for them. I just believe in fairness. Steffan From: nusbache@epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Borough of Southwark Trayned Bandes (was Re: Just Wondering.... Date: 2 Sep 1993 18:11:23 -0400 Organization: EPAS Computing Facility, University of Toronto This is in response to Hope Greenberg's question about groups which go to Pennsic. A complete description of the Bandes (posted earlier this summer) can be had on request from Jeffrey.L.Singman@um.cc.umich.edu. Questions about material in this post, however, should be addressed to me. The Borough of Southwark Trayned Bandes is a group of people interested in re-creating lower- and middle-class culture of London between about 1580 and 1650. The Bandes annual muster is at Pennsic War, where the range of re-creation is 1588-1600 or thereabouts. Members of the Bandes attend re-enactments and re-creations sponsored by other groups, at which the Bandes join in whichever period is being re-created. The framework of the group is a unit of Trayned Bandes infantry, one of the groups of citizen-soldiers maintained in Elizabethan and Jacobean England for defence of the realm. The unit is based in Southwark, an insalubrious district of London known as the home of bawdy houses, cockfights, bear-baiting, fencing salles, and, worst of all, actors; but also an industrial district home to glaziers, brewers and tanners among other tradesmen. For its own purposes, the Bandes maintain a flexible authenticity scale from "preferred" through "acceptable" to "unacceptable". The goal is to have a persona and kit which are thoroughly consistent with the time and place being re-created. The Bandes has no restrictions on rank or social class, so long as it can plausibly be represented. If you want to be the Earl of Essex, and you can afford the clothes, equipment, servants, etc., and you don't mind the fact that there won't be anybody of appropriate social class for you to talk to, then you can go wild. In practice, however, nobody is higher in rank than a prosperous merchant or middle-level civil servant. Female personas are expected to stick with appropriate clothing and activities, but there is no requirement for women participants to have female personas. A member of the Bandes has a property near Ethel, Ontario, where the construction of an English village is ongoing. There are small-scale re-creations held there about twice a year, generally concentrating on the 1640's. The main business of the Bandes at Pennsic is maintaining an authentic camp, intended to represent a muster of the Trayned Bandes at a festive event such as the Accession Day Tilts; drilling with pike and musket; demonstrating and teaching rapier fighting; and holding an Elizabethan open-house evening. Most of the members of the Bandes are members of other re-creation and re-enactment groups, including many who are members of the SCA. The Bandes' Elizabethan Handbook, intended to allow anybody to set up an Elizabethan re-creation as an individual or a group, is sold at Pennsic, and is available from Jef Singman at the above address. Aryk Nusbacher Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Arval d'Espas Nord) Subject: Re: SCA spinoff groups Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1993 18:40:10 GMT Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research In article <40.23910.1580.0NE191B5@channel1.com>, bettina.helms@channel1.com (Bettina Helms) writes: > MI>In the past few years, the MSR and the local SCA have moved closer > MI>together; probably more than half the MSR's membership is crossover > MI>population. > > ??? When the MSR started out, the crossover ratio was close to 100%. ALL > the key founding members were disaffected SCAdians. That's true, but for the past 12 years or so, they have been a separate organization, doing their own recruiting, running their own events, and operating completely independently. They have always had some crossover membership, but my impression is that it dropped off for the first four or five years, grew slowly for some years, and recently jumped significantly. Currently, they have about as much interaction with Ostgardr as any pair of large neighboring branches might expect. =========================================================================== Arval d'Espas Nord mittle@watson.ibm.com From: lecuyer@wam.umd.edu (CLIS library) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: hazardous complaints Date: 28 Sep 1993 22:22:42 GMT Organization: University of Maryland, College Park In article <1993Sep21.185341.871@lds.loral.com>, Ed Kreyling 6966 wrote: > >So are you in Markland? Tell me about it. I have heard about the MMM for >years and never met anyone who was in it. I did meet the King and Queen of >ACER(spelling may be off as I never saw it written down.). That was interesting. > First off a snippy comment - it's 4 M's - Markland Medieval *Mercenary* Militia - I am making the assumption that you are leaving off the Merc. part as many Scadians (!) do. Of course they may forget the Militia part too, I'm not sure. Markland started 20+ years ago at the University of Maryland (currently in the heart of Storvik, but not at that time). Six members of the fencing club either 1) saw a movie, 2)heard a song, or 3) heard about the recreation of the Battle of Hastings in England and they were a bit drunk and said "Let's do that!". So they had the first Battle of Hastings at U of MD. As I've heard it there were 6 people on each side, they had pop-top chainmail, trash can lid shields, and wooden swords. Anyway...it grew from there. Similarities with SCA - interest in medieval stuff real fighting with fake weapons (what we call fratrecidal combat) Differences - More padding on the weapon and less on the person we stab in the back Recreational combat - fake fighting with real weapons Confederation rather than corporation organizationally (although we have non-profit corp.status) each group in Markland in autonomous they send 2 reps to periodic "Council" meetings, but most day to day stuff is taken care of by the Witan - 4 officers elected by the Fyrd (members) - Alderman - Shire Reeve - Baliff - Scribe (?) Although *anyone* can show up to a Council meeting most of the Fyrd show up for the 2 main meetings or Althyngs, one in winter one in summer. In Markland *everyone* is considered a member of the common classes unless you get a title the old fashion way - you gotta BUY it! ($25.00) ;-) Some people believe that Markland puts more emphasis on authenticity and recreation than SCA does. While this is true for certain groups or events, we still have our share of polyester zipper queens elves and vampires. The frat boys make carpet armor and helmets out of freon cans (although they may have made them illegal recently. I confess I pay little attention to frat fighting these days.) We *do* have suggested standards. We came up with a code for events that indicate what level of authenticity must be met to participate in the even: "Authentic" - must be top of the line garb and kit, very few events are in this class (Hastings,Military Through the Ages, and maybe some of the other rec. battles) Rule of thumb for "authentic" - must look proper from 5ft. "Show" - must look good from 10ft, this is where most events fall - demos, parades, Hastings Fair (i.e. people not participating in the battle). "None" - you can come in mundanes, but some attempt at period clothing would be nice. Feasts, frat wars, workshops, Althyngs fall into this category. Yes, people do sometimes come in mundane clothing to a feast - especially if they are new, working the feast, or can only stay a short period of time. It's no biggie, the feasts are our party after a day of demos or such, it's our reward to ourselves. This is my POV of Markaland. I've probably left some stuff out. The definition of the standards for garb is from memory, if anyone is vitally interested I can look up the actual descriptions. And questions, comments, flames, funny stories etc. welcome. Gif Auja! Kara Manasdottir/Catherine LeCuyer From: jab2@stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: blunt steel weapons Date: 25 Nov 93 09:34:45 Organization: STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, UK. I don't know how trining was done in the tenth century which is the period I reenact, but I would guess that our blunt weapon fights aren't really very close to the original training exercises. We place an awful lot of emphasis on pulling blows and controlling the weapon. Basically the idea is to learn how not to injure, whereas the original idea would be to learn how to injure. I gather that in the tournamant style fought later on with blunted swords serious injuries were not uncommon One thing that all our styles of recreation will always be lacking is sufficient quantities of blood, guts bruises and broken bones (Well I hope they're going to be lacking anyway :-) Jennifer Vanaheim vikings From: jab2@stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: blunt steel weapons Date: 26 Nov 93 10:39:51 Organization: STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, UK. As far as the weight of our weapons goes, I was told by a museum curator that they were heavier than genuine viking blades. This is because we have extra metal where theirs were sharpened and ours arent, and because we use oversized pommels to shift the balance point back towards the hand, this makes the blade easier to control despite the extra mass involved. What's the significance of the "live" bit of "live steel", I always assumed it meant sharp? does it? if so then I suppose we are fighting with "dead" steel? Jennifer Vanaheim Vikings Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: sj6070f90@auvax1.adelphi.edu Subject: Re: Kingdom of Acre Organization: Adelphi University, Garden City, NY Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 02:55:13 GMT Greetings, Azelin! For your information, you may contact the Kingdom of Acre by calling: Bob Fox (718) 848- 3364. That is in the New York City area, USA. Hope this helps, if I can be of further service, let me know. Slan, Lady Morwynna Cryw Stuibhart Martainn MacDhomnauill From: cwilkey@u.washington.edu (Cliff Wilkey) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Other Medieval/Renaissance Groups? Date: 2 Feb 1994 22:25:47 GMT Organization: University of Washington >>>Kvedjur fra Mikjal! >> >>>Just to give folks a few more options to consider, could someone post >>>the contact addresses for MSR (Acre), Markland, MEAD, and any other >>>medieval and/or Renaissance re-creation/re-enactment groups, both in >>>the US and other countries? Thanks. For those in the Western Washington state area, there is the Society of Avalon. (NOTE: This SoA is not afflilated with any other goups of the same name that might be around.) As it says in the newsletter, "The Society of Avalvon is a medieval social organization dedicated to the ideals and embodiment of Arthurian Legend." For those interested, you can contact: The Society of Avalon, 105 E. Harrison St, Tacoma WA 98404. -Or- If you have any questions about this group, feel free to drop me some email. Thanks, Cliff Wilkey aka. Garrett Ambroius - Society of Avalon Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: Bill Hubbard Subject: Re: Other Medieval/Renaissance Groups? Organization: Information Systems, Aston University Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 16:21:55 GMT In article <2iqfnv$lab@hpscit.sc.hp.com> mabr@sweden.hp.com (Morgan "the Dreamer" Broman) wrote: >Does anyone on this net have any information concerning a group called >"The Arthurian Society" ? > >Need info badly.... ;) I am not sure if my information will help you, as I imagine that the name Arthurian Society has been used by quite a few groups and probably more recently than we have. But as I don?t know in what connection you have come across the name, it is possible you mean us. We used to be ?The Arthurian Society?, based in the Midlands (of England) in the seventies to mid- eighties, before we changed our name. We were a re-enactment group who did displays and our own events based on the ?historical? Arthur of the late 5th/early 6th century AD. We had registered the title with various bodies, did shows, TV, radio and magazine stuff so our name may still be floating around from then. Another possibility is through one of our sub-groups, Newcastle University Arthurian Society, who were quite active in mixed-society activities and shows in Britain in the mid-eighties, fighting as ?the Ravens?. (I believe there is another unconnected group also called ?The Ravens? in Essex). As we improved the authenticity of the kit, we realised that the evidence for a real ?Arthur? was the least supportable part of the re-enactment, and so dropped the name. We now do our own events and bits of experimental archaeology and generally have fun as post-Roman Britons and migrant Anglo-Saxons. Apart from ourselves I know there was ?The International Arthurian Society? which was a literary group dedicated to Arthurian matters. There was also ?The Pendragon Society? based in the West Country (of Britain - around Glastonbury) which dealt with the Arthurian legend and mythology. We heard from time to time of other groups using ?Arthurian? in their titles, but we were never able to track them down: they may have been shy or short-lived or maybe we didn?t look in the right places. I don?t know why you need to get in touch with them, but email me if you think I could help out. Bill Hubbard From: jwinterm@uoguelph.ca (Jason Wintermute) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Other Medieval/Renaissance Groups? Date: 6 Feb 1994 06:25:02 GMT Organization: University of Guelph There's one called the Essex Medieval Heritage Society. It's made up mostly by SCA members in the Windsor, Canada area. That's Starleaf Gate and maybe Hawk's Point. I think it was created to deal with the non-profit situation here in Canada. You'd have to ask someone from there. I only assume it still exists. I haven't heard about it in a while. mka Jason Wintermute From: Jester.Of.Anglesea@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Jester Of Anglesea) Date: 10 Mar 94 17:17:00 -0500 Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Markland swords Organization: Fidonet:TIDMADT 703-765-0822 (1:109/120) e> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca > From: ejcampbe@eos.ncsu.edu (ERIC JON CAMPBELL) > Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos e> Kind Gentles from a marklander friend up north I have heard > that their battles are witha heavy type of boffer sword > solid core sometimes Okay, just so we're clear on the subject. Markland and SCA armor standards are about 80% compatible (rough guess). Markland weapons are required to have a layer of padding. The core (which is required for just about every weapon but the flail) is generally rattan. We use combat archery (think of them as pennsic-scouts with bows) and have weapons designed for throwing (generally coreless but with a substantial weight). We strike from behind (full force not allowed) and allow considerably more leeway in physical contact. (I once saw a Marklander, Thorac ap Kerrigan, drop a spearman with a punch to the helm. He kept him on the ground by punching him [wearing hockey gloves] whenever he managed to get to his knees.) Our re-creation 'period' is much smaller and focuses on Northern Europe. Have I left anything out? Jester of Anglesea Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: gunwaldt@astro.dasd.honeywell.com Subject: Markland Fighting Rules Organization: Honeywell Inc. DASD Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 23:24:57 GMT The following was sent as a request for Markland fighting rules. I was asked to post it to the Rialto for those interested. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Subject: RE: Marklandic Rules Combat: We allow hitting from behind, you must strike your opponent only hard enough to feel and yell "You're dead". We also allow kicking, grappling, punching and striking an unarmed opponent, in short just about anything that won't injure the other fighter. We are, after all, trying to *kill* our opponents in a war situation. Armour: Our heavy fighters are not signifigantly different depending upon which Kingdom you're in, most SCA fighters would pass Markland heavy requirements. The big difference here is that we allow NO plastic armour, NO aluminum for armour or shields, and I guess you could say no carpeting too. We have 2 other classes of fighters as well, lights and ultra-lights. Lights can go out on the field with the following, helmet, gloves and clothes. They die when TOUCHED by a heavy who may not bash them. They are allowed to use a shield that must have the word *LIGHT* on it, and the helmet must have yellow tape front-to-back, side-to-side, and around the brow for easy I.D.ing.Ultra-lights are only allowed to use ranged weapons i.e. bows, javelins and the like and are allowed to wear 3 weapons masks marked as lights are. ( To back up a bit, SCA armour requirements are more protective than ours for heavies, we allow pads where you all require hard protection.) Weapons: As follows for each: Spears: Any continous length of rattan only. Must have a thrusting cap of foam,preferably Armaflex or equivalent, constructed thusly; the haft must be covered in 1/2" foam extending at least 14" below the head. The thrusting tip must be 2" long and 2" wide of foam. These apply any weapon with a thrusting tip and so I'll not repeat it. Pole Weapons: Must have at least 3/4" foam along the entire blade edge. They must have a thrusting tip. The cutting edge must be clearly marked with contrasting tape if necessary. the haft must be padded 12" down from the head. Max length is 78". Great Swords: See Pole Weapons. Swords: Must have at least 1/2" foam along the entire blade edge, have a thrusting tip,and contrasting tape. Max length is 36". Throwing Weapons: No metal ( this goes for ALL weapons). Must have 3 bands of red tape to designate as such. Javelins shafts must be between 1/2" and 3/4" thick. They must have thrusting tips on both ends. Any other type of throwing weapons should generally be padded with at least 3/4" foam and be between 12" and 18" in length, these include throwing axes etc. Arrers: Rather complicated and so I won't go into it. Anteorra and soon the East use Markland rules and have been posted to the Rialto and as such are available. Bows are 30 lb. limit and we use fish scales to check them out.No pulleys or modern sights allowed. Peasant Flails: Are allowed and I'm particularly nasty with one being the first to actually get one to work without it falling apart! Max length is 78". Max cord length is 10". The head must be free of a solid core, rope and the like are O.K. Impact head max length is 30" and the haft must be padded 1/4 of the length.( Lots o' fun ) Morning Stars: Max length is 36". May not be counter-weighted. Must have at least 3/4" of foam on the head, no solid core here either. Max cord length is 12". Haft must be padded 12" below the head. Weapons in general must be constructed out of at least 1-1/2" thick rattan as our occularium limit is 1-1/2". Counter-weights must be marked with international orange to be OBVIOUS. These are obviously not the complete rules so any questions arising can be directed to me at Kelly.Coco@MVS.UDEL.EDU --------------------------------------------------------------------------- In my haste toget the info out to you I neglected to mention that our rules state that armour counts for what it is in terms of protection. This is quite different from the SCA where if I'm not mistaken everyone is assumed to be wearing the same type of armour regardless of the reality. So a fighter wearing the minimum padding to be out on the field will fall to most blows that reach him while a human tank in full Milanese plate will quite likely require several hard blows to take out. This does lead to some confusion on the field but generally it works out O.K. I also neglected to mention that our target areas are similar but not the same. We allow the hands to be targeted tho' to be honest we try to avoid it and many are opposed to it. The crotch and the knees and below are off limits tho' if you are hit there by a missle weapon the shot counts. Consequently our peltasts and archers will favor those areas so as to immo- bilize an opponent, quite dastardly don't you think? Lots o' fun tho'. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you, Steiner, for sending these rules. Gunwaldt From: charlesn@sunrise.srl.rmit.EDU.AU (charles nevile) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Weapons and Shields Date: 29 Mar 1994 07:36:35 GMT Organization: Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology, Melbourne, Australia. Michael Chance (mchance@nyx.cs.du.edu) wrote: : Daniel deBlare writes: : >inch leather belt-blank down the front of it and it ways only 2 1/2 pounds. : While perhaps lighter than the "typical" SCA broadsword/longsword, : this weight puts it solidly in the normal range for an actual medieval : weapon of the type. : Mikjal Annarbjorn In the New Varangian Guard, (an Austalian Group) We tend to use a MAXIMUM sword weight of about 1.35 kg (~3 lb) for steel swords. We Do ALWAYS pull blows, but what the rules actually say is something like: Blows shall be hard enough to distinguish them from a "lucky" glance, but no harder. Specifically they shall not be hard enough to cause injury. (The NVG is a metal weapons group) Our shield laws permit almost anything that is reasonably authentic (although nearly all our sheilds have steel rims for durability...), and the minimum armour requirement is helmet, gambeson/mail covering hips and shoulders, mail gauntlets, and rigid groin/breaast protection (as applicable) worn underneath. (I.e. a cricket box ...) Charles From: nusbache@epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Live-Steel Date: 2 Apr 1994 16:20:31 GMT Organization: EPAS Computing Facility, University of Toronto In article <2nhv30$1vp@starfish.acs.brockport.edu> KV8986@acspr1.acs.brockport.edu writes: >---> I am looking for any information on the group called the Marcher >Lords or the sealed knot. The Sealed Knot: The Society of Cavaliers and Roundheads has its registered office at: 65 Westhall Road Warlingham, Surrey England CR3 9YE I have no idea whether Gill Walker is still Muster-Master General; but you might address correspondence to her. Aryk Nusbacher From: tip@lead.aichem.arizona.edu (Tom Perigrin) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Blackpowder, you must be kidding Date: 9 Jun 1994 23:26:15 GMT Organization: Department of Chemistry In article <940609092930.2c9@eivax.ualr.edu>, WILLIS@eivax.ualr.EDU wrote: > > Personally, I am extremely scaried of facing anyone using any kind of > blackpowder device as a part of combat. The thought is ludicrous. Now as > an A&S entry, that is another idea. Yes, well, when I include anything with black powder in an SCA or recreation event, it is never used to aim AT somebody... In fact, I seldom do more than shoot blanks or tennis balls down range away from everybody. The only time I shoot live ammo is during strictly controlled target practice at sites with safe backdrops (in a quarry, for example). I do not shoot live ammo at events. However, I got my black powder training in The Sealed Knot, an English Civil War (1640-1649) recreation group. These people are amazing... we make such a big thing about Pennisic, as well we should since it is the biggest SCA event each year. But the Sealed Knot has major musters with over 10,000 fighters almost every month from spring to fall (and twice some months). During a major muster these 10,000 people take field, and 2/3 wave pikes at each other, and almost 1/3 shoot guns more or less at each other, and a small handful shoot cannons or ride horses around... Minor musters take place almost every weekend, and draw "only" 500 to 2000 people. I guess the greater density of the UK allows this sort of draw. It was "easy" for me to pack up my estate car (station wagon) and starting from Oxford I could drive to almost any part of England (not Scotland or Wales) within 12 hours. I suspect that 12 hours driving time from Tucson covers less than 10% of the USA. Surprisingly, very few people get seriously hurt... I've seldom heard of more than a few broken thumbs, cracked ribs and occasionally a broken major bone or two from a major muster *grin*. And dehydration isn't a problem in England, even in the summer... keeping one's powder dry IS a problem. But I personally don't suggest that for the SCA... I think black powder tends to ruin whatever romance of chivalry we are striving towards. Even though I am a later period character, and spend most of my time doing 16'th C woodwork, and own 15'th and 16'th C cannons and harquebues, I still would support a limitation of 800 - 1300 for the Society. I would give up my own persona for what I percieve the greater good of the Society. On the other hand, since Provine and the BOD are seemingly doing everything they can to destroy the Society, I guess this doesn't really matter. From: mittle@panix.com (Arval d'Espas Nord) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca,alt.history.living,soc.history.living Subject: Re: Jousting info wanted Date: 7 Oct 1994 14:09:40 -0400 Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC Greetings from Arval! Medieval Studies and Re-creations, a NYC based SCA-like group, does jousting. I don't know the details. If anyone wants to get in contact with them, I can help. =========================================================================== Arval d'Espas Nord mittle@panix.com From: azrael@access1.digex.net (Razmus) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Craft Group repost Date: 28 Oct 1994 08:21:43 -0400 Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA I don't have any affiliation: but since it wasn't crossposted here (as far as I can tell), and I figure someone might be interested -- Here goes... (BTW: flames regarding this crosspost will be redirected to /dev/null. Please include the string "FLAME" in the header so my mailer program will know what to do with it. :-)) If anyone can update me on the geneology of this group -- are they an SCA splinter? Parallel group? >From: akasha >Subject: Medievalism and the Crafts Today >Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 18:24:14 -0400 The Adrian Empire is a 10 year old, non-profit, educational medieval recreation group. Within the years of 1100 to 1550, its members recreate the arts, combat and ministerial/ambassadorial functions of the middle ages. Unlike many historical organizations, there are three types of Knighthoods our members may work towards, as in the actual medieval world: combatant knighthoods, ministerial knighthoods and arts/sciences knighthoods. Our arts and sciences encompass anything and everything that a member can document as having existed during the time period we play in. Some choose to try something different at each competition, others focus in one specific area. Whether garb or food, pottery or potions, siege engines or alchemy, our arts tournaments welcome all projects. Advancement in the arts and sciences is determined by tournaments won and "masterworks" achieved. Masterwork is our designation of an entry that is of perfect quality. As in the other branches of Knighthood in Adria, artisans work toward specific goals and criteria to earn their Knighthood. For more information about the Adrian Empire, we hope you will join us at our upcoming demo November 12th in New York City. Write or call for demos in other areas. Or contact throught email: Sire Medea de CourNoir at akasha@universe.digex.com Or relay a carrier pigeon to: Eastern Regions Mark and Karen Smith 31-25 14th St. Astoria, NY 11106 718-721-1648 Western Regions c/o U.S. Financial Corp. 5336 N. 19th Ave. Phoenix AZ 85015 1-800-873-9983 -- Rich E. Weissler azrael@access.digex.net From: lisa@access5.digex.net (Lisa Losito) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Founding of Markland? Date: 7 Sep 1995 13:32:08 -0400 Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA In article <42l83i$icp@crl9.crl.com>, Michael A. Chance wrote: >A friend recently asked about the founding of Markland in relation to >the SCA, primarily, which came first? Could one of the Marklanders >visiting the Rialto give a bit of the founding and early history of >Markland? > >Thanks. > >Mikjal Annarbjorn Long, long, ago - before the Black Ships came, in the Golden Spires of Ancient Markland... I'm hazy on the actual year - It was either 1968 or 1969 - I was not a member then. As for the "which came first" question, Markland began at the University of Maryland at College Park, as the Maryland Medieval Mercenary Militia, separated from the SCA by an entire continent. By most accounts the two organizations did not even hear of each other for many years, until the SCA spread eastward. When that occured there were negotiations, treaties (being pre-Atlantia, with the East Kingdom most likely) and recruiting attempts on both sides. Markland is organized somewhat differently than the SCA, but many of our members are dues paid in both, and many folk who participate at both SCA and Markland events are not dues paid in either, which adds to the confusion. Markland is basically a system of confederated chapters based on interest area or geography, plus a number of unaffiliated members, with a witan of elected leaders, a council of group representatives, and meetings of voting members at the Althyngs, (and a non profit, tax exempt, educational organization incorporated in Maryland corporation etc. etc.) We have often had cross-pollination between the two groups, in fact in the Pennsic annual, when photos are printed of previous years, we've seen Markland members pictured in single-digit Pennsic years. I can safely say that the groups are separate enough in founding that many Markland members find the term "splinter group" inaccurate. For the legendary part of it, the founders were four people, Atli, Barchan, CeCe, and Ragnar. It grew out of the Fencing club at the University, and a Halloween party. One of the first events was a reenactment of the Battle of Hastings. This traditional event has lasted, and Markland often re-creates Saxon, Norman and Viking culture among other areas and time periods. There are tons of early legends that could be related, some amusing, some scandalous, such as the renowned and elusive leader Thorgood the Nude, but those are for another time or venue, and would best come from someone with a more bardic sensibility (or wait until I refresh my historical memory.) I'm sure there are plenty of other Marklanders about that can add to or correct anything I've said. Aeldra DeGodervya ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lisa M. Losito "Dilute, Dilute, Dilute. OK!" lisa@digex.net -- Dr. Bronner ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ansteorra@eden.com (4/1/95) FW: Re: Amtgard Info Here are the homepage address for Amtgard for those of you who were asking. ---------------Original Message--------------- Any other areas? Well let's consult the book of tedious information: Ah! Here we go: Net, Amtgard on the Home pages (WWW server, must have access to Mosaic or Netscape or other Web Browser) Kalxen's (The "Official" Amtgard Home Page) http://wwwpub.utdallas.edu/~kalxen/Amtgard.html Grei's (The "other" page :) http://www.teleport.com/~grei/Amtgard.html *Note: WWW addresses MUST be typed in exactly (caps and lowercase too) ----------End of Original Message---------- Ciao Sir Ches Lady Chiara Austin, Tx. Barony of Bryn Gwlad Duchy of Tirana ------------------------- E-mail:Ches@io.com Ches@pentagon ------------------------- From: Daisy Brown Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Alternative Medieval Organization Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 07:57:10 -0800 Organization: Realm of Chivalry Are you looking for more to do? Do you live in Washington State? Is every day a good day for fighter practice? We are The Realm of Chivalry, an alternative medieval organization primarily located in Western Washinton. Please consider this a formal invitation to join us at a Realm event to see what we are all about. Also, the Realm web page has moved and is now located at: http://www.halcyon.com/roc/roc.html Many new and wonderous things have been added since the move, with weekly updates and additions. If you wrote to us in November or early December when our web page was first posted, our sincerest apologize if your missive was unanswered. Our site has moved and we believe this problem has been remedied. Unfortunately, the message were lost during the move. Please submit your questions or inquiries again and I promise to return a personal response back to you within 24 hours. Daisy Brown aka Lady Ailios NicMhuirich Chronicler, Kingdom of Treloria From: eherring@mindspring.com (Evan L. Herring) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Reenactment in Switzerland Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 15:42:21 -0400 Folini Christian writes: >I would be very pleased to hear that there are some people in >Switzerland doing reenacment. >They say there is no branch of the SCA around, but maybe, they just did >not know... >Christian Folini The Company of Saynte George, which Gerry Embleton featured in his book _The Medieval Soldier_, is a fifteenth century reenactment group based in Switzerland. It is known for a very high standard of authenticity and centers its main thrust, so I gather, around the fifteenth century wars between the Swiss Cantons and Charles the Rash, Duke of Burgundy. Embleton, according to the author info in the book, lives in Yverdon. How accessable he is I don't know. Lord Martin Dragonet Historian, Barony of the South Downs, Meridies From: shand@ssg.com.au (Steve Hand) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Reenactment in Switzerland Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 13:43:41 +1000 Organization: Strategic Studies Group Folini Christian wrote: >I would be very pleased to hear that there are some people in >Switzerland doing reenacment. > >They say there is no branch of the SCA around, but maybe, they just did >not know... > >Christian Folini If you're looking for late medieval re-enactment then contact The Company of Saynte George c/o Time Machine 1425 Onnens Switzerland If you want the SCA I'm afraid I can't help you. Steve Hand Editor In Chief, Run 5 Magazine Strategic Studies Group http://www.ssg.com.au From: sableslug@adstone.com (Justinian the Sluggard) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Landsknecht! Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 00:06:16 GMT Der Gesellschaften Sonnen Von Kreig We are currently seeking recruits interested in joining our ranks either as an individual or as already organized regiments. We are a group of medieval hobbyists who specialize in German - Swiss Landsknecht re-enactment (circa. 1400 - 1575). We are SCA (society for creative anachronism) based but also work independently as Lite- Re-enactors for schools, museums, or public demo's and faire's. Our areas of specialty, depending on regiment, focus on; Camp and Van life, Pike and Halberd units, Artillery and Hand Cannon units and Armor collectors as well as numerous other areas of research of the time period. We are accepting either full-time or part-time troops, as we are NON-AFFILIATED group. Our enlistment is open to all . We don't care what house-hold, shire, barony or kingdom you hail from. We strive for non-allegiance. We only recognize our own rank structure and paying contracts. After all Landsknecht were well organized mercenary armies. Please contact us for more information. Organizing Oberst Willem Morguhn Von Konstance at SVK@juno.com or Gesellschaft Profoss Derek Hollehaar (Called Fairhair ) at (717) 645 - 8661 or Webel Justinian Der Sluggard at sableslug@adstone.com Thank you for your interest, Willem. Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 15:37:58 -0600 From: Maddie Teller-Kook Subject: Re: SC - Medieval cookery in Britain Daniel Serra wrote: > I have never been a member of the SCA, but now as my interest in medieval > and earlier cookery has grown I wonder if there might be at least a > possability to find groups that practice medieval cookery here in the > south of England -Reading, Berkshire , UK. You might want to check this website. There are a number of 're enactment' groups throughout England. One of these groups may do some cooking for their time period. Good luck! the web address is: http://www.ftech.net/~regia/regblurb.htm Meadhbh Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 19:39:30 +0200 From: Brokk Subject: SV: SC - Just some greetings from Angus MacIomhair, formerly know n as brok k. > Hi Angus, and welcome. How are things in Nordmark? Where is Holmrike? > I've only been to Stockholm once, years ago, for an investiture. It > was terrific. > > Allison [Brokk] Thank you =) Holmrike is the Stockholm part of Nordmark (i think, or rather know, but i don't know the exact geographical extent of it though), but i must confess that i'm not a true SCA member *gasp*. I've instead joined another group called Nordrike. A few years go there was a small schism in Nordmark so some members left and started Nordrike. We have the same goals/interests as SCA when it comes to recreating the Middle Ages or 7-17th century. The reason for the split came up when the kingdom of Nordmark should form and make up it's own laws. There was (i've been told, this was 3 or 4 years before i became member) quite a few problems to solve and some lousy diplomacy from both parts. Finally many grew tired of the seemingly endless argueing back and forth and started Nordrike. Nowadays it has all blown over though and I have quite a few friends in the SCA and vice versa. The biggest difference that springs to mind is that in Nordrike the king and queen is appointed in democratic elections, not from their combat proficiency, which, speaking as an cooking alchemist slash bowman I think is quite good since anyone interested can have a chance at royalty. Angus. Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 22:19:59 -0700 From: "J. Kriss White" To: sca-arts@raven.cc.ukans.edu (SCA-Arts mailing list), sca-caid@rogues.net (Caidan mailing list), Subject: Society for Creative Antiquities, anyone? I just received this from someone on AOL, undoubtedly a result of having "SCA" in my profile over there. Just passing this on to a few lists where somebody might be interested.... >From: CeltSarah@aol.com >Full-name: CeltSarah >Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 00:13:42 EDT >Subject: sca >To: JkrissW@aol.com > >Hi i found you doing a search for people who might be interested in this new >reenactment group. No this isnt some business trying to get money or >anything, its a club im in is all. Let me know if your interested we have >chapters starting all over and Im realy trying to help our Empire grow more ( >big events are just SOOO cool, imagine a rennaisance fest but not commercial >and full of Romans, Greeks, Egyptians, Phgonecians... :-) Theres a web site >at the end that explains it all. >Sarah > >The IMPERIUM is an Ancient re-enactment society. We portray Ancient Society, >the Romans, the Egyptians, Dorians, Thracians, Spartans, Persians and others >come together here. We participate in Feasting, Dance, The arts and even >Martial Combat of ancient times. > There are several ways we do this: >First of all we portray a society of people who COULD have existed. We create >events that could have happened but we do not re-create the actual outcomes ( >after all, who would want to be on the side everyone KNOWS is going to loose.) >Our structure is based on Rome and Greece even though ALL ancient societies >are welcome. We HAVE to have a structure to make this society work and >everyone respects that structure regardless of a person's title or personae ( >even the free lovin Celts show respect to the City Coordinator or PREFECT >even tho Prefect is a Roman title.). Our promotion system is based on a >point system and so everyone has an equal chance of becoming a member of the >Ordo Equestor ( Knighthood) or even King or Queen. >COMBAT in the Imperium is full contact, unchoreographed, armored fighting. > The Imperium recognizes two kinds of combat. All fighters must be approved >before participating. This is NOT boffer fighting. >HOW TO JOIN: Feel free to contact us or show up at a practice, try it out, >there is usualy loaner gear if youd like to fight, If youd like to >participate at anything more then a practice all we ask is that you make an >attempt at Garb ( costume). > >http://members.aol.com/agamedes >or Antiquitus Lord Daveed of Granada, mka J. Kriss White, Barony of Calafia, Kingdom of Caid Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 19:46:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Huette von Ahrens Subject: SC - Institute of Historical Interpretation This may be of interest to some. > Institute of Historical Interpretation > > Following a workshop in Oxford last November, the Institute of Historical > Interpretation has been set up to facilitate co-operation and mutual > understanding between live interpretation groups, historians, > archaeologists, the heritage industry, and educationalists, in order to > exchange information and improve the quality of public presentations. The > IHI was conceived by a small group consisting of live interpreters from > re-enactment societies and living history groups, historians and heritage > professionals. > > Re-enacters are thought to re-enact only for themselves with the groups > being mainly concerned with the enjoyment of their members. However > re-enacters see themselves as educators, entertainers and researchers, and > many are concerned with the quality and content of the displays and the lack > of communication with interested parties. Re-enactment and live > interpretation are powerful communication tools, with the capacity to change > people's perceptions on history or to perpetuate myth. > The Institute is a forum in which academic historians, archaeologists and > heritage professionals, can exchange views with re-enactors and live > interpreters. It should allow the opportunity for heritage professionals > and historians to influence the type and content of historical live > interpretation currently being presented to the public. It gives live > interpreters access to current historical thinking, and an informal medium > in which to discuss future requirements with potential sponsors. > Archaeologists have a forum to discuss experimental archaeology with living > history participants. > > Academic historians, archaeologists, heritage professionals, educators, > re-enactors and live interpreters are all being invited to become involved. > Anyone with an interest in heritage, public history, academic history, > living history, experimental archaeology and re-enactment is encouraged to > attend the inaugural meeting, to include their ideas and opinions about the > future of live interpretation at historic sites. > > The Institute hopes to encourage standards in presentation and display. > Sponsors and the public should be informed about the historical and > educational relevance of displays, whether they are historical battle > pageant, with noise, colour and spectacle or potentially much smaller, more > accurate living history presentations. Different types of display attract > different types of sponsor and the Institute aims to help awareness of > presentation techniques and historical accuracy. > > In addition it aims to co-ordinate a pertinent educational programme for > those involved with live historical interpretation, to aid the acquisition > of relevant knowledge and skills, whether it be traditional farming or > cottage industry skills, research methods or visitor management and > health & safety. > > Obviously all this will take time and will be a gradual process, but as a > starting point the Institute is producing a biannual journal. > First Issue of the IHI Journal available at the Inaugural Meeting or from > Partizan Press in November 1999. > > You are able to influence discussions about the Institute and it's aims by > attending the inaugural meeting. This will take place at "The Re-enactor's > Market", Blackbird Leys Leisure Centre, Oxford on Saturday 13th Nov 1999 at > 12 noon. The meeting is expected to formally agree the aims of the > Institute, agree a committee and editorial board for the Journal, and > discuss the way forward. > Anyone with an interest in heritage, public history, academic history, > living history and re-enactment is encouraged to attend to include their > ideas and opinions about the future of live interpretation at historic > sites. > > Inaugural Meeting: > > Saturday 13th Nov 1999 at 12 noon. > at > The Re-enactor's Market, > Blackbird Leys Leisure Centre, Oxford. > "The Re-enactor's Market" is the main outlet in the UK for makers and > traders in reproduction period equipment and clothing, where they can sell > their wares to live interpreters and museums. There are over 100 stalls. It > takes place three times a year, twice at Blackbird Leys Leisure Centre in > Oxford, and once at "History in Action", the English Heritage premier event > at Kirby Hall, Northants. > > We hope that you will support the Institute and > attend the meeting in November. > > For more information contact: > IHI, c/o 1 Golden Noble Hill, > Colchester, Essex. CO1 2AG > e-mail: roddau@essex.ac.uk > > o:o:o M.C. BISHOP >>Writer, Publisher, & > Archaeologist<< > o:::o mcbishop@pobox.com <<>> > http://pobox.com/~mcbishop > o:::o Braemar, Kirkgate, Chirnside, DUNS, > Berwickshire, TD11 3XL, UK > o:o:o Visit ARMAMENTARIVM: > http://www.ncl.ac.uk/~nantiq/arma/ Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 15:57:19 -0400 From: randl@borg.com (Anephedros) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Russian Armor http://members.aol.com/johns426/partIII.htm URL for the Alexander Nevsky Society in Russia, neat reenactment group, lots of armour shots. rob Edited by Mark S. Harris other-groups-msg