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flirting-msg - 9/30/94


How to flirt courteously and successfully.


NOTE: See also the files: favors-msg, On-Favors-art, p-favors-art, courtly-love-bib, courtly-love-msg, SCA-courtesy-art, courtesy-msg, dance-msg, Love-in-th-MA-art.





This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.


This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org


I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.


The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.


Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).


Thank you,

    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                          Stefan at florilegium.org



From: Pat McGregor (1/8/94)

To: Mark Harris

RE>More Men Dancing


Greetings, milord Stefan! Thank you for writing to me. I'm sorry

I have taken a few days to respond: that "other" life keeps interfering!!


you say:

>>Pish Tosh. Become an excellent flirt, and no one will care if you dance

>>(particularly if the rest of your list is up to date!).


>Ah, my gracious lady, would you have any particular advice on becoming

>an excellent flirt?


>(For alas, my dancing skills would seem to be on par with your own.)


Oh, dear. I'm sure my mother would say this was something I'd been born with!

However, I've watched Duke Sir Eli instruct one or two young men in this art,

and I might be able to give you a pointer or two:

1) Give every woman you meet the same flirtacious ways you would give

    a particularly young and attractive one. We "old ladies" enjoy flirting

    as much as the young ones do (and sometimes you'll find that older ladies

    are better at it.) Treat every woman you meet, old and young (even the

    7 year olds!) with courtesy and attention. You don't have to use

    exaggerated courtesy; just being kind and courteous will attract the

    attention of all the ladies around you.


2) Make full eye contact. Come right up to the edge of her intimate

    contact zone but not inside it. (If this doesn't make sense, ask.

    Desmond Morris in his book "the Naked Ape" has a good description

    of this.) (Be sure, however, that you've brushed your

    teeth and taken a shower recently. If, of course, you are on the list

    field or scrubbing pots in the kitchen, or involve in some other

    sweaty and dirty chore, you can say something like, "Forgive me lady,

    but I fear I am not fit company for as genteel a lady as yourself

    in my present condition.") When you kiss a lady's hand (a skill

    all men should know, *I* think!), keep your eyes on hers,

    not on her hand. I'm sure you can find someone to help you practice this.


3) With some practice, you can make outrageous statements with a straight

    face. I say things like, "My Lord, I can't imagine that someone as

    charming as yourself has no one to dance with! Perhaps you'd

    like to come out on the floor with me, even tho I fear my skills are

    rather rudimentary." "Do sit next to me here, milord, and every woman

    at the feast will envy me." "You must leave? Alas, I fear my heart will

    break from the loss." "You cook, milord? Tell me of the feast you have

    always wanted to make."


    You can be teasing and flirtacious and still practice that most important

    of companionable skills, listening. Flirts become obnoxious when then

    ignore the old, the young, the less fair, and when they do not really

    *talk* to their companions. One of the tricks is to really have an interest

    in your companion, even in the briefest encounter. Leave her feeling that

    she's brushed the edge of an interesting relationship; as you get more

    practiced at this, you may find that you and a good friend develop an

    outrageous flirtation just for the fun of it.

I dare say that this is no help at all, but perhaps it will be a pointer to

you in how to proceed. Do write back if you wish.


In service, I remain,




Siobhan Medhbh O'Roarke

  Sharing her time between Crosston &                3060 Ridgeline Drive

  Golden Rivers                                           Rescue, CA 95672

  pat at cygnus.com                                       (916) 677-6607

  siobhan at lloyd.com                                    (415) 903-1448 (days)



From: corliss at hal.PHysics.wayne.EDU (David J. Corliss)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: New Thread - Flirting

Date: 21 Jan 1994 12:52:52 -0500


A friend has recently written to me, asking a how certain gentleman might

"flirt SCA-style without getting his members hewn/battered." My own gentle

wife, Lady Estrella, has often spoken of gentlemen who seem to take a great

interest in a lady's shoes when dancing. All this seems to say that the gentle

art of enjoying the company of the opposite sex ("flirting" seems too base a

word) languishes in our midst. Perhaps I may be permitted to offer a few

observations on the subject. I do not presume to speak with authority but only

of what I have seen in others.


Some have confused flirting with gross flattery or sexual advance. It is

never the first and rarely keeps company with the second. Extravagant words

may ring untrue, leaving the sincerity of the speaker in doubt. Others will

attempt outright seduction and call it innocent flirting or take the slightest

attention of another as a invitation that was not intended. In the majority,

gentlemen have been guilty of this failing, leaving many ladies wary of giving

or receiving _any_ attention. C'est dommage! For I have ever enjoyed the

company of beautiful women, even going so far as to marry one. In this, I

propose there is no infidelity. As my own dear Estrella has told me, one day

she will stop flirting and the next day they will bury her. So it is understood

that nothing inappropriate is meant by all this.


Flirting has often been called a game, but it is not an overt display. The

gentlemen that I have seen who most enjoy and are most enjoyed in gentle

company, such as his Grace Sir Eliahu, make no great show. Gentles such as

this find great enjoyment in the presence of others and make this clear to

them, not by grand words or rash deeds, but by simply making it clear that

they are enjoying themselves. They seem to radiate charm merely by showing

interest and pleasure in the company.


At revels, many will only speak or dance with those they already know. Such

a pity! For they lose the opportunity to meet people with gentle word and

graceful step. I have made no secret of my enjoyment of dancing and now my

friends ever introduce me to the fairest of ladies wherever I go. A still

greater treasure may be found by gentles who seek out those who stand by and

watch without anyone to talk or dance with. There one may find a gentleness

of heart, more precious that gold, that is the more beautiful for having been

foolishly passed over by those seek only a narrow circle of friends.


In all this, it seems that I have only said: "Enjoy the gentle company of

others and show your pleasure to them". Is this really all there is? Does

flirting have a bad reputation in some areas, leading to fears of being

"hewn/battered"? Why is this?


Beorthwine of Grafham Wood



From: corliss at hal.PHysics.wayne.EDU (David J. Corliss)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Thoughts on kissing hands

Date: 31 Aug 1994 10:56:05 -0400


Greetings! While the learned Doctors of this University continue to discuss

whether I will be needed to teach this Fall, I shall divert myself from my

present distress with pleasant conversation among this noble gathering.


And what topic could be more pleasant than the enjoyment of the graces offered

by fair and gentle ladies? Charles the Clerk writes:


> It is possible to drop smoothly to one knee and kiss a lady's hand without

> looking away from her face......


Certainly this so, and I can not understand why any would wish to do otherwise.

Yet, have we not also seen gentlemen who, while dancing, seem to take on an

inordinate appreciation of their shoes? In fearing to perhaps stumble with

their feet, they fall prostrate in matters of the heart.


The kiss upon the hand is but a medium by which gentle courtesy and

appreciation of the grace and beauty of one's company may be conveyed. But

these things are transmitted, not by the kiss, but by the accompanying glance.

Indeed, once this most pleasant of languages is learned, it is possible to

express all that may be said in kissing hands without actual contact. This

makes it possible to greet a lady and "kiss her hand" from the other side of a

room or accross a street. The physical contact is an emphemeral means of

delivering gentle glances, and may be dispensed with when contact is not

possible. Never should contact be found without a softer, truer touch from the



Beorthwine of Grafham Wood


<the end>

Formatting copyright © Mark S. Harris (THLord Stefan li Rous).
All other copyrights are property of the original article and message authors.

Comments to the Editor: stefan at florilegium.org