beggers-msg - 4/17/97 Beggers in the SCA and period. NOTE: See also the files: occupations-msg, personas-msg, prostitution-msg, peasants-msg, children-msg, P-history-msg, disabilities-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Carolingian peasants From: schuldy at zariski.harvard.edu (Mark Schuldenfrei) Date: 17 Jan 94 09:41:23 EST gunwaldt at astro.dasd.honeywell.com writes: Query: Are the Carolingia peasants an enthusiastic group of rock grubbers? Do they help create a better ambiance? Or is this just a local joke? At one time, it was very much a "peasants guild", with sincere attempts to create an alternative to the chronic number of nobility. Currently, it is more at the level of a tradition that we maintain, or perhaps a local joke. This is not to say that at some point it won't become a going concern again. There is one local gentle, Rufus the Beggar, who doesn't "play" a peasant: he is one. Torn clothes, dirty face, bashful demeanor. He does it so well that he makes people slightly uncomfortable, sometimes. For example, when he eats at feast, he pays the on-board price, but wanders from table to table asking for a crust of bread, or something to eat. Very occasionally, I would either give him "charity", or sometimes "cuff the churl", depending on his mood, or mine, or whether I'm sure he's had enough to eat yet. Rufus is an interesting case: he is certainly more authentic than many of us, but at the same time he is so good at it, that people who don't know he is playing, get a little concerned. I keep trying to spread the good words around. Tibor -- Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy at math.harvard.edu) From: jacquetta at aol.com (Jacquetta) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: beggars at pensic Date: 30 Aug 1994 18:35:09 -0400 jeffs at math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki) writes: >>My pet peeve for this Pensic was the begging kids. I don't care if it's period. It is reprehensible. It also teaches the kids a very bad lesson. At one point I was nearly driven to resort to a period tactic to get rid of them...>> They got to me last year, so I tried some period schtickt on them. I bought a cheap bag full of those plastic gold rings used as wedding and shower favors and loaded up my fingers. Whenever one whined at me, I made great show of "giving up my most treasured possession for good of my soul, as my confessor instructed me" then I would drop in the cheap ring and walk off to their wails and complaints. By the 2nd visit, they began to avoid me the rest of Pennsic. Works like a charm! :-) Jacquetta From: sward02 at bigcat.missouri.EDU (Shannon R. Ward) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: beggars Date: 30 Aug 1994 11:22:55 -0400 Regarding beggars at Pennsic: I agree with the individual who found this annoying. There is a big difference between theatrical begging and the lazy little panhandlers on the side of the sidewalk. Does anyone remember the Lepper from Pennsic 2 or so years ago? He was great, he had his routine down pat, he was earning his money! Someone tried to tell me "But beggar children are period." Well, in period they probably would have been illiterate and not hold up little signs requesting money. If they were doing something, juggling, cartwheels, stupid tricks, I would have been far more likely to give them some change. Can you imagine a group of children blasting out "We three soldiers we, with nary a penny of money" at the top of their lungs. I would have emptied my purse! I think this is a bad trend, especially for children. Tatiana Dieugarde Shire of Standing Stones Kingdom of Calontir From: habura at vccnw01.its.rpi.edu (Andrea Marie Habura) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: beggars Date: 31 Aug 1994 12:37:08 GMT Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY I noticed those kids too. Found 'em whiny and unamusing, and walked right by them. Had I been thinking along more evil lines, I would have told them about a Barbara Hanawalt article I was reading in _Speculum_ the week before, which examined crime against children. Seems that one 14th c. case involved three children who were kidnapped by beggars to increase their earning potential. All three were maimed to make them more pathetic. One was blinded, another lost his hands; don't recall the third. Charming, huh? I'm hoping the kids learn by example. I noticed they weren't getting much return on their time, while the performers seemed to be doing well. I hope they'll learn to do something amusing next year. Alison MacDermot *Ex Ungue Leonem* From: gray at ibis.cs.umass.edu (Lyle Gray) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Begging in SCA Date: 27 Sep 1994 14:51:29 GMT Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Univ. of Mass., Amherst, MA At Pennsic XIII, I remember leaving the Great Court to go check on my tent (it was raining heavily, nothing unusual). There was drumming up on Tuchux hill, the tents were partly obscured so you couldn't tell which were modern and which weren't. As I headed down the hill, I noticed that there was someone sitting at the side of the road. As I came up to him, there was a flash of lightning, and I could see that he was holding up a wooden bowl, which was now full of rainwater. As he did so, he said, in a feeble voice, "Alms for the poor?" It completed the illusion for me, I'll tell you! It was quite satisfying to listen to the coins splash into his bowl... -- Lyle FitzWilliam ------------------------------------------------------ NON ANIMAM CONTINE Lyle H. Gray Internet (personal): gray at cs.umass.edu Quodata Corporation Phone: (203) 728-6777, FAX: (203) 247-0249 From: Uduido at aol.com Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:26:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SC - Recipes and Feast etiquette << It would be completely dishonorable to eat a feast that one had not paid for. >> Although I agree with the general statement here, I would like to point out that there are cases where this is untrue. One of them being the fact that at feasts where I am feastocrating, it is common knowledge that my back door is always welcome to beggers. I have had no abuse from this policy and those few that availed themselves of the privelege were definantly in need at that time. Since I routinely put 40 to 60 dollars of my own moneys into the feasts I am in charge of, grow many of the herbs needed and donate most of the period type spices, I feel I am justified in continuing this practice. If a person iis truly in need there is no dishonor in begging in my kitchen, I assure you! Yours in service to the Dream, Lord Ras Edited by Mark S. Harris beggers-msg Page 4 of 4