rope-msg -11/16/99

Medieval ropemaking. rope materials.

NOTE: See also the files: lucet-cord-msg, ships-bib, boat-building-msg, straw-
crafts-msg, whips-msg.

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    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: lennyb at snet.net (Lenny Bloom)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: ropemaking, period cordage, and decorative knotwork
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 03:19:52 GMT

Dwight Hall <dwihall at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>Can anyone point me to references to:
>
>1) Ropemaking in medieval and Renaissance times, particularly as might
>have been done in rural areas by just one or two people working
>together?
>
>2) Reasonably priced sources of natural (hemp, linen, cotton) yarn
>suitable for ropemaking.
>
>3) Decorative/practical knotwork in period, including braiding and
>plaiting. Most of what I can find dates to the Napoleonic wars and the
>golden age of sail.
>
>Does anyone know if the famous Celtic "knots" seen in stone work and
>ilustrated manuscripts were ever actually worked out in rope and cord?
>Many of them appear to be possible, but as far as I can track down they
>were solely surface decorations. Of course, fiber arts are rarely well
>preserved in the historical or archeological record.

Dwight:  I'm sorry I don't have sources for you but the best work I have seen
on knotwork is (The Ashley Book Of Knots, By Clifford W. Ashley
Pub 1944 from Doubleday, Doran & company, Inc.  620 Pages)
This large collection of 3854 knots and how to tie them has some,
knots that look a lot like "Celtic" style knots. I hope you can find this 
book, I don't know if it was ever republished. I found it at a local library
book sale for 25$. and the bibliography lists over a hundred other books
of intrest to the knotmaker.

Leon the Navigator
Barony of Dragonship Haven
Lenny Bloom


From: Mark Hendershott <crimlaw at JEFFNET.org>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: ropemaking, period cordage, and decorative knotwork
Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 12:04:23 -0700
Organization: Oregon Public Networking

Mary Iliff wrote:
> 
[deleted stuff about knot books.]

The original poster also asked about ropemaking.  I'm unaware of any
books but did find -- www.midtown.net/~merv/mropwalk.htm

This describes the ropewalk method of making roping as well as gathering
wild plant fibers and making ladders etc.

Assuming that medieval ropes were made on a ropewalk, this would be a
fine demo craft as well as producing a saleable end product.  We all
need rope.

Simon von der Eisenhandlung
Summits, An Tir


From: miliff at cello.qnet.com (Mary Iliff)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: ropemaking, period cordage, and decorative knotwork
Date: 2 Jun 1998 16:08:58 -0700

Mark Hendershott  <crimlaw at jeffnet.org> wrote:
>Mary Iliff wrote:
>> 
>[deleted stuff about knot books.]
>
>The original poster also asked about ropemaking.  I'm unaware of any
>books but did find -- www.midtown.net/~merv/mropwalk.htm

There's a nice set of fairly detailed instructions on how to make cord
in the new tassel book that just came out.  Substituting sisal for the
decorative fibers would produce manila line quite easily.

There's also a nice picture of the cord/rope maker, with instructions
for its use.  I think it's a little too pricy for me, but all I want is
cord for tassels.  While the device is probably too lightweight for
production use, it would work well for occasional ropemaking.  This is,
obviously, one notch down from a ropewalk but I didn't have the impression
that the original poster was going into production so it may well serve.

Essentially, the technique is to twist the fibers into a number of Z-twist
cords and then S-twist these into the line or finished cord.  You can do
it the other way, with S-twist cords and Z-twist line, but that isn't how
it's usually done, according to Ashley.  The rope maker lets you do all
this single-handedly by flipping rods or latches.

I'll produce the name of that book as soon as I can, and try to find some
sources for the rope maker.  I'm pretty sure both book and maker are
available at Lacis.  I ordered the book through Waldenbooks after seeing
it in the Lark Books catalog, but I don't think Lark sells the maker.


From: miliff at cello.qnet.com (Mary Iliff)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: ropemaking, period cordage, and decorative knotwork
Date: 3 Jun 1998 15:35:12 -0700

I have two books that have fairly detailed instructions on how to make
cord and, by extension, rope.  These are both really about passementerie
(decorative fiber arts including fringes, frogging and braids, tassels,
and so on) and have only small sections on cord and rope making.  However,
it's so simple that this is probably sufficient.  The two are "Tassels: 
The Fanciful Embellishment" (TEFE) by Nancy Welch, Lark Books, 1992, and
"The Tassels Book" (TTB) by Anna Crutchley, Lorenz Books, 1997.  Both are
available from Waldenbooks, although I ordered TEFE from Lark as part of a
package deal with a tassel-making tool. 

TEFE has instructions on how to make cords by hand, with an electric drill
and a hook, and with a rope maker.  It also has explicit instructions and
good drawings for making a rope maker with a modest amount of wood and
heavy-duty wire clothes hangers.  In addition, it has sources for sisal
and a rope maker.  In conjunction with your rope walk information, I think
it would be feasible to make rope using the information in this book. 

The trick to making rope is to twist fiber together into strands in one
direction and then to twist the strands together into the rope in the
opposite direction.  This direction switching makes a rope that doesn't
kink but lies nice and easy.  It does take some practice to get the amount
of twist right, but what doesn't?  The book also has cord braiding and
some knot tying.  

For a long time this was the only book around on passementerie.  I've made
a number of things from it and found it to be very easy to follow, with
complete instructions.  The projects are not extremely detailed, but a
good explanation of the general procedure is given and various materials
and variations are suggested.  The projects are not overly elaborate,
although elaboration is suggested and described.  It's still available
from Lark (so is the tassel maker) and Waldenbooks.  (I keep mentioning
Waldenbooks because I have one of their preferred reader cards and the
time-of-sale discount does a little more than pay the sales tax and the $5
rebate for every $100 spent on books stretches my budget a little
further.)  Also, there's a good list of suppliers, many of which still
advertise in Piecework, etc, so they're still aroung. 

TTB has an excellent section on cordspinning, including instructions on
using the commercially available rope maker I haven't tried anything from
this book yet, but I've read it carefully and it looks to me like it will
be an excellent source.  Again, a good list of suppliers.  This book has
more elaborate projects than the other.  Some are a bit overdone in my
opinion.  Instructions are more detailed than TEFE's, but they need to be. 

TEFE has wonderful pictures of passementerie through the ages, including
many ethnic and some period examples.  It also has a gallery of modern-day
passementerie makers.  TTB has a few such pictures, but most of its photos
illustrate the processes and projects. 

If you can, buy them both.  If you want to make rope and simple to
somewhat elaborate tassels, buy TEFE.  If you want to make elaborate
tassels, buy TTB.  TEFE is from the US, TTB from the UK.  They're both
lovely books that will have you ordering catalogs and itching to have the
fibers in your hands in no time.


Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 02:27:12 -0500
From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu" <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Rope

>I would love to get any good referances you have found on period rope,
>it's making or use. What materials did they make rope out of? 

I have found refs to the use of straw for rope making, the coils were made
into all sorts of things, chairs, beds, you name it, much like archery
butts.  This technique was use until the 1920-30 in parts of the UK. On the
basis we see bee hives of this straw rope in medieval ms, I think it is
very likely the used it for other things too. Hemp was also made into rope
and other similar fibres, birch, nettle etc..

For details on this see Dorothy Hartleys books, also the Jack Hill book I
mentioned on traditional crafts. Also The Country Man at Work-Hennell,
Living Crafts- Huges, Rural crafts of England-Woods. have bits on it.

You need the long thatch straw (do you get that in the US ?) modern straws
have been bred too short and don't work. I've made a bit, it is really
strong !

Mel


Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 14:53:03 -0600
From: Roberta R Comstock <froggestow at juno.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Rope

The making of cords and ropes is extremely ancient - predating both
weaving and pottery.

There's a dandy little book  called _Rope, Twine and Net Making_ , Shire
Albums number 51, published by Shire Publications Ltd., Aylesbury, Bucks,
UK.    I don't have my copy handy to give you author and ISBN  at the
moment, but I highly recomend the Shire Publications series (in addition
to the albums on dozens of historical technology and rural life themes,
they also publish series on ethnography and archeology).

Some of the titles listed  on the volume I have in my hand now (_Spinning
and Spinning Wheels_ by Eliza Leadbeater, #43) are:

Agricultural Hand Tools -  100
Baskets and Basketmaking  -  92 (which I don't have yet)
Bricks and Brickmaking - 75
Shepherding Tools and Customs - 23
Straw and Straw Craftsmen - 76
Woodworking Tools - 50

Hertha

<the end>
Edited by Mark S. Harris	rope-msg	5