SCA-transport-msg - 1/24/08 Typical and unusual SCA vehicles and transport. NOTE: See also the files: travel-msg, carts-msg, boat-building-msg, sedan-chairs-msg, wheelbarrows-msg, tent-transprt-msg, travel-foods-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 23:19:48 -0500 To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org From: Ted Eisenstein <Alban at socket.net> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pennsic fantasies > I have always wanted to rent a big old school bus and > a big old truck with plenty of space for everyone's Some old, old, old-timers from Calontir still talk of the Vatavian War Bus. Some people from Vatavia had a big school bus that they used frequently for long road trips. One year they took it to Pennsic: it was loaded inside with people and a lot of baggage - and, on both outside sides were taped the really long pole-arms, some extending past the radiator; on the roof, ditto; and over the radiator were a couple of the Mark I scutums/warshields (only place they'd go, really. . . ) As it turned into St. Aidan's Square, which was at that point where troll was, the Pennsic Marshall just happened to be walking by. He came over; smacked each shield a couple of times, examined the foam over each of the spears and polearms, and rattled them to be sure they were on securely - and proceded to put an official "Passed Inspection" sticker on the windshield. . . Alban Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:36:24 -0700 To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org From: lilinah at earthlink.net Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: SCAdians vehicles, WAS: Drakey's driving. Now i have an old mid-size station wagon, which gets VERY full of my stuff. I'm thinking of buying one of those streamlined "boxes" that attach to the roof of the car. I'd like to replace my Coleman camp cot with futon for a slat bed, and i'd like an additional lightweight folding table to add to the kitchen and a "peri-oid" wooden table and benches for eating and visiting. Now folks tell me my car can pull a small trailer, so... Anahita From: "Phlip" <phlip at 99main.com> To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: SCAdians vehicles, WAS: Drakey's driving. Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 21:56:45 -0400 Anahita skrev: > Now i have an old mid-size station wagon, which gets VERY full of my > stuff. I'm thinking of buying one of those streamlined "boxes" that > attach to the roof of the car. I'd like to replace my Coleman camp > cot with futon for a slat bed, and i'd like an additional lightweight > folding table to add to the kitchen and a "peri-oid" wooden table and > benches for eating and visiting. Now folks tell me my car can pull a > small trailer, so... Oh, Lordy, tell me about it! Every time I pull into Pennsic, my vehicle looks like something out of the Beverly Hillbillies, and that's with storage in Zelienople, or however it's spelled. This Pennsic, I drove the Ford Bronco from CT to Cooper's, dropped the trailer and some of the waterproof stuff, drove down into Ohio and loaded more stuph, and back to Pennsic. Afterwards, it took 3 fully loaded trips, plus help from a couple other vehicles to load the storage locker, then drove the full Bronco, with a loaded trailer, back to CT. Of course, the Metal Smith's Symposium, I trevelled light- All my camping gear and garb, a 10 X 20 shelter, three forges, blowers, a dozen RR track anvils, etc etc etc.... Thank Heavens for Ron's pick-up truck.... Phlip, who definitely travels heavy.... Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 00:34:56 -0400 From: vongraph <vongraph at comcast.net> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: SCAdians vehicles, WAS: Drakey's driving. To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org > Anahita skrev: > > Now i have an old mid-size station wagon, which gets VERY full of my > > stuff. I'm thinking of buying one of those streamlined "boxes" that >lets see now theres the RV 27' of it with the camp trailer on the back usually, then one of the other house members will be bringing the tavern (5400 pounds of it in one trailer:) ) depends on who tows which but I have the RV stuffed with all the stuff we need for camp site and personal use. I was thinking tractor trailer next, thats if we decide to have the Harper's Raid public roman baths next summer. YIS, Elric From: "Siegfried Heydrich" <baronsig at peganet.com> To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> Subject: Re: SCAdians vehicles WAS:Re: [Sca-cooks] Drakey's driving. Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:05:40 -0400 I have a '72 Buick Electra 225 (19'5" long) powered by what used to be a 455 ci (before it got MUCH better . . . it's a 496 now . . .) engine with a trunk that I could move a family of Haitians into that is used for events only these days. Even then, I'm pulling a 5,400 pound camp trailer / cooker, still getting around 10 mpg under load, 15 mpg unloaded. And still can shock the hell out of the local hot rodders . . . Boats just shouldn't GO that fast! Sieggy From: "dseguin" <dseguin at directvinternet.com> To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:49:20 -0500 Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: SCAdians vehicles I just gave up and got a truck. Course we also merchant, but just when I think a small economical vehicle is in order, I see a site that makes you rethink. Imagine stopped on a steep one-way road watching a F-350 stopped because the trailor hitch is bottoming out. That was yesterday, and the road was at least a 45 degree incline and needed regrading. I was glad I had the truck and no trailor. There are so many roads into sites that are tough on small cars that it almost makes you want a 4x4. Thankfully they aren't usually that bad. But here in texas, there are so many great sites on somebody's land. Heck this weekend in Bjornsborg, we're having an event on one of the member's land. Let's just say that our local joke is "what a fine crop of rocks we're raising this year". The owner is improving the roads on the property, but I feel for small vehicles with low ground clearance. Bersi Ormstunga AKA Pubear of Bjornsborg Apprentice to Mistress Clarissa di Firenze From: Eadric Anstapa <eadric at scabrewer.com> Date: July 12, 2004 3:31:47 PM CDT To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>, April Gillilan <agillilan at swbell.net> Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] SCA Trailers? April Gillilan <agillilan at swbell.net> said: > JP and I have been thinking of getting a trailer to carry, and store, our > SCA stuff in. What opinions/experiences/recommendations does everyone have > on what brand or type of trailer to get? > > Has anyone had any trouble with storing stuff in a trailer? > Is the door at the front of the trailer really useful? > Are enclosed trailers better than flatbeds or those with no top? > Can things be safely and easily strapped to the tops or sides? > Can shelves or hooks be attached to the inside to carry things > easier and safer? > How short is too short, or how long is too long? > Aluminum? Steel? Wood? Plastic? > Is a ramp useful? > One rear door, or two? > Two wheels, or four? > > Anything else? > > Gilyan > Mooneschadowe I have a 5'x8' enclosed cargo trailer and I love it. It is light enough thay when empty I can move it around by hand. It is weather tight and can be locked up securely so I am not afraid to store stuff in it for a length of time. When i was looking at trailers I decided on the 5'x8' because it was as big as I needed and still small enough that I can pull it behind my Nissan Pathfinder with no problems. I am only 5'7" so I can just barely stand up in the trailer. I have metal "breadrack" shelving along one side and the front of the trailer to organize things. They are free-standing shelves and I have bars and wing-nuts that hold them securely to the walls when they are installed yet I can remove them all in about 2 minutes if I need the trialer open for something larger. Also when I get to Pennsic or Gulf War I take the shelving out and set them in our Pavillion or Kitchen tents and they are usefull during the week. My 5x8 trailer also has the advantage of being small enough that I can actually set my period pavillion up over it and nobody knows the trailer is in there unless I tell them. When I have it setup that way I setup my bed inside the trailer andh ave a warm, cozy, and dry bedroom. When making my purchasing decision I chose the "XL Cargo" line from the General Cargo brand of trailers. The where a little bit more sturdy for the price. They have heavier walls with 3/8" OSB walls instead of just 1/8" Luan that so many others have, they had treated 3/4" tongue and groove plywood floors, and heavier axle and full size wheels and tires. And they are made in Ansteorra. I have been very happy with the trailer. -- Arcus Eadric Anstapa Ansteorra From: Chass Brown <chass at allegiance.tv> Date: July 13, 2004 1:37:12 PM CDT To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at ansteorra.org> Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] SCA Trailers? Well believe it or not usually one can pick up a used enclosed trailer from U-Haul (Tis where I procured mine from), usually they are very inexpensive and need very little done to them. I think all we had to do was replace a tire and add a spare. Ours not only has back doors into it but a door on the side as well. We are going to be adding a ramp to ours soon./... for obvious reasons (being stuck in a wheel chair aint fun). I do hope ye find a trailer that suits ye. Chass of Rundel aka Charinthalis Del Sans of the portable Chariot Honorable Recruiter of the House of the Red Shark (Have you seen my Belaying Pin??) From: Myrtle of the Lost and Missing <myrtle at midnightoile.com> Date: July 13, 2004 11:54:26 AM CDT To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org Subject: [Ansteorra] Trailers I've had two over the years. First was standard farm trailer open type. Fixed plywood to the front and sides, stuffed our stuff in, covered with a tarp and went. Went LOTS of miles actually. It worked well even in bad weather. How well depended on the packing job of course. Second was a second-hand enclosed horse trailer. Well worth the money. Has locking compartments that are water tight. It lets you put your camping stuff in one compartment and fighting/pavilion etc in another. Handy when you get there late and just want to set the tent up. The trailer is tall enough I have room for all my stuff and I think I probably paid less than a smaller enclosed trailer. YIS Myrtle of the Lost and Missing From: Leofric Ealdricson <lealdricson at hotmail.com> Date: July 14, 2004 8:54:13 PM CDT To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org Subject: RE: [Ansteorra] SCA Trailers? For years, I stored my camping gear in a trailer. I had a 10'x6' trailer that held camping gear for 2 adults and 5 kids. My camping gear lived in the trailer. I never had any problems with it getting wet. The only thing that I did not store in the trailer were candles (tried it, didn't work). Mine was a Well Cargo brand trailer. The trailer had a steel frame, steel ribs and aluminum outer skin. I would get the side door. It makes it a lot easier to get to things. My recommendation would be to get an enclosed trailer. Stick all of your stuff up and see how big a trailer you will need. the length will be determined by your longest item. Remember that the size of an enclosed trailer is the OUTSIDE dimensions. the inside will be 2" - 3" smaller. Therefor, an 8' pole will not fit straight down the inside wall of a 5'x8' trailer. Most trailers of this size (5x8 or 6x10) will have an axle rated at 2000lb. That is NOT enough to carry all of the stuff that could be put in the trailer. I had my trailer upgraded to a 3200lb axle and I could stuff it to the gills and it didn't even flinch (went to Gulf Wars that way a couple of times). Definitely consider an upgrade to the axle. Other than that, shop around for a good buy but remember that you will get what you pay for. A quality trailer will last for a long time and will hold it's resale value. Regards Leofric Ealdricson From: Pug Bainter <pug at pug.net Date: July 15, 2004 8:24:13 AM CDT To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] SCA Trailers? Leofric Ealdricson (lealdricson at hotmail.com) said something that sounded like: >>> Mine was a Well Cargo brand trailer. The trailer had a steel frame, steel ribs and aluminum outer skin. I would get the side door. It makes it a lot easier to get to things. <<< I have a Wells Cargo as well and love it. The side-door is a must for anyone who carries a lot of heavy items, like canvas. I can pack all of my canvas at the front of the trailer for proper weight distribution and pull it out first to setup camp. I also made a false floor inside mine so that I can store all the poles, bed, etc underneath. >>> My recommendation would be to get an enclosed trailer. Stack all of your stuff up and see how big a trailer you will need. the length will be determined by your longest item. Remember that the size of an enclosed trailer is the OUTSIDE dimensions. the inside will be 2" - 3" smaller. Therefor, an 8' pole will not fit straight down the inside wall of a 5'x8' trailer. <<< One of the benefits of the particular Wells Cargo trailer I have is that is is at least 3" larger in each dimension than typcial trailers. This means I can put 8' poles in it without a problem. As well, my 9' spears fit diagnolly with plenty of room. >>> Most trailers of this size (5x8 or 6x10) will have an axle rated at 2000lb. That is NOT enough to carry all of the stuff that could be put in the trailer. I had my trailer upgraded to a 3200lb axle and I could stuff it to the gills and it didn't even flinch (went to Gulf Wars that way a couple of times). Definitely consider an upgrade to the axle. >>> When I got mine 4 or years ago it was a 3000lb axle as a standard. Btw, the ratings are typically on the tongue supports somewhere. Ciao, -- Phelim "Pug" Gervase Bryn Gwlad - Ansteorra From: Chass Brown <chass at allegiance.tv> Date: July 16, 2004 1:17:43 AM CDT To: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com> Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] SCA Trailers? One of the things that I am having placed upon the trailer is crank down sides so i can use them as platforms (kind of like the windows in a drive through and a shelf to make it easier on me) to put things on from the outside and have them sitting there so i can get into the trailer to load them and tie them down. It also will make it easier to air out the trailer when we need to. it was suggested that i have a crank down internal ceiling to place things on and net down and then crank back up but i havent had a chance to look into it. Chass of Rundel aka Charinthalis Del Sans of the portable Chariot Honorable Recruiter of the House of the Red Shark (Have you seen my Belaying Pin??) From: Wolfram Gottfried <wolfman at darkhorde.org> Date: October 30, 2007 2:14:19 PM CDT To: Barony of Bryn Gwlad <bryn-gwlad at lists.ansteorra.org> Subject: Re: [Bryn-gwlad] Shopping for a new vehicle advice I usually just lurk here, but this is a subject I've dealt with a lot between SCA events, Ren Fairs and towing sailboats around. One thing to keep in mind when you're looking at the large body minivans/crossover vehicles, roof racks and such while thinking "I can cram all my stuff in here easy" is cubic feet of space does NOT equate into pounds of capacity. I have a small Ford Escort wagon that, with the rear seats flipped down can physically fit almost ALL my camping gear including a 12x14 period pavilion with all poles, break down wooden furniture, lots of decorative iron work and other heavy stuff. Problem is, the car is only rated for 800 pounds of riders and cargo, so once I get in I'm down to 550 pounds worth of carrying capacity. My stuff weighs more like 1500 pounds and would break the springs and axles if I actually tried to go any significant distance with it. A minivan can hold a lot but can it safely MOVE it? Some minivans are better than others - unfortunately the two I would really like are no longer made (the Chevy Astro/GMC Safari or the Toyota Privia). Both were rear wheel drive, had serious suspensions and could carry and tow - the Privia was rated for 3500 pounds and the Astro/Safari could do 5000 with the right setup. Small unibody front-wheel drive cars also don't like pulling trailers - the transmissions and structure of the car just are not designed for that kind of extra stress...a trailer puts some really weird stretch/compress loads on the vehicle structure and even more random side stresses which can (and I've seen) actually deform the sheet metal. I watched a 4 door Toyota sedan going down 183 one time pulling a trailer, and you could see where the back doors and trunk did not align properly anymore because the whole back half of the body had deformed and stretched. Not safe. I used to have a small 2 door Jeep Cherokee with the 4 cyl. engine - same issue with cramming camping gear INSIDE...it would fit but the rear wheels were rubbing the inside of the fenders - it pulled loaded u-haul trailers from Virginia to Pennsic, pulled my 2000 pound sailboat around for a while and had adequate torque and power, but the driveline was too light and the brakes were abysmal (both feet on the brake pedal and a definite Exxon-Valdez feeling as you SLOWLY came to a stop - required much planning and looking ahead to handle and overall was not a safe combination). Electric trailer brakes would have been a big help here, but with a boat trailer electric brakes and salt water are not a good mix. The smaller uHaul trailers also are NOT equipped with brakes (I know the little 4x6 and the larger 5x8 ones are not because I've used them) so if you will be towing one of those you want a vehicle with enough brakes to do the job. That Jeep also broke u-joints every 6-8 months - for lighter work it would have been fine but it was being asked to do more than it should. The Jeeps with the inline 6 cylinder engine (not the smaller V6) were a different beast entirely - that would have done very well. I switched to a 1984 Lincoln Town Car that had plenty of power and brakes, but inadequate cooling (would overheat if you went over 45MPH....at night...with the A/C off). So I bought an old F250 pickup that needed some work, ended up beingabout $3500 in purchase and repairs to get it up to snuff, but it will pull the wheels off any trailer I'd want to hook to it. Brakes with real authority, enough power to get it moving, springs and suspension to match. Gas milage sucks (11 MPG), I wouldn't drive this to work every day. I dragged a 6x10 utility trailer loaded with every bit of camping gear I own and then some down to the Ren Fair last weekend, and I had to keep checking the mirror to make sure the trailer was really there because it didn't feel much different. So - my thoughts on it are: Even if you aren't going to pull a trailer, get the factory tow package anyway. It should give you upgraded brakes, better rear springs and cooling which will give you a safer trip when you load down the interior cargo capacity. If you ARE going to pull a trailer - get a vehicle with a real frame and rear wheel drive - get the factory tow package on that to get the right springs brakes and cooling setup also. Keep wind resistance in mind also, with roof racks and trailers. Not only does it cut your fuel mileage, but it makes your engine and transmission work harder and could adversely shorten their lifespan if they aren't up to the task, especially on a long trip. More power and a heavier drivetrain are a good thing in this case. The larger engine is not ALWAYS a fuel economy killer - if you keep your foot out of it and don't open it up you can get decent mileage from a larger engine ... just takes a little self discipline. I'd consider something like a late model Grand Marquis/Lincoln Town car unless you're dead set on buying brand new (mainly because I could never afford to buy anything NEW) - properly set up (mine wasn't) one of these can safely tow a good sized trailer and they get reasonable fuel economy when not towing (as long as you keep your foot out of it). Would give you plenty of room for passengers and luggage in day to day driving without the areodynamic penalty of a brick-shaped SUV, and they are comfortable as heck for a long trip. A truck is a good bet for a secondary vehicle, but if one has to do it all then a truck probably won't be your best bet. From: Jay Yeates <jyeates at realtime.net> Date: October 31, 2007 8:18:14 AM CDT To: 'Barony of Bryn Gwlad' <bryn-gwlad at lists.ansteorra.org> Subject: Re: [Bryn-gwlad] OT: Shopping for a new vehicle advice checkout here: http://www.northerntool.com/ they have a fairly extensive selection of trailer parts. if interested in upgrading the trailer you have, you can likely find a heavier duty axle with hubs suitable for bigger tires (that use lug nut)you should be able. the added weight should improve towing stability. though whole matter is controlled by the "if factor" - can the frame of the trailer support the changes. Stefan li Rous wrote: On Oct 30, 2007, at 9:51 AM, Eric W. Brown wrote: <<< On the trailer & Note the small wheels & A small wheel trailer will be a huge pain to tow at speeds over 45. Be aware of this. >>> I've got the smaller wheels on my trailer, which I bought just before TFYC and have been using off and on since then. I've never had a problem towing it at highway speeds behind either my Toyota Corolla, our past Dodge Caravan or our current Honda Odessey mini-van. it is a fairly low, streamlined trailer though. However next trailer I do want the larger wheels that use lug nuts. My current trailer doesn't use lug nuts, but rather bolts that go through the wheel rim into the threaded holes in the axle. We have really liked the mini-vans as a compromise between an SUV, a pickup or a larger pickup. The interior space is larger than most SUVs and when we need it, we can haul up to six people. For Gulf Wars we can put a roof carrier on or use the luggage rack to expand our space. I'm afraid that just Alina and I pretty well stuff the van and roof carrier going to Gulf Wars, but if we can find a second driver then we will simply hook up the trailer. The mini-vans are shrinking over the years though. We had the Dodge Caravan originally rather than the longer Grand Caravan. When it came time to replace the van, most mini-vans on the market were smaller than the Dodge Caravan we had, including that year's Dodge Caravan, really leaving us with only the Dodge Grand Caravan or the Honda Odessey. Since the Caravan had gone through two transmissions and three fuel pumps ($800 for a fuel pump?!!!) in 165K miles, we spent a bit more money and got the Honda. The only problem we've had with it was with the electric doors, which we wouldn't have bought except they came with the upgrade package which included the towing package and other things we wanted. Stefan -------- THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas StefanliRous at austin.rr.com <the end> Edited by Mark S. Harris SCA-transport-msg Page 10 of 10