weaving-msg - 4/15/09 Weaving, types of cloth. Weaving techniques. NOTE: See also the files: looms-msg, card-weaving-msg, tapestries-msg, spinning-msg, knitting-msg, quilting-msg, textiles-msg, Cloth-of-Gold-art, color-a-fab-bib, weavng-sizing-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: ilaine at panix.com (Liz Stokes) Subject: Re: Dog Hair? Organization: Panix Public Access Internet & Unix, NYC Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1993 10:48:48 GMT patmoore at acs.ucalgary.ca (Patricia Lynn Moore) writes: >btw: despite the pun, it is not woof, but weft, as in weave. >(same declension as leave/left) er, warp and weft are the two directions of thread on a loom. The warp is stretched out between the beams and the weft is the side to side threads that get filled in as you weave. Woof is another word for weft (really). -Ilaine Liz Stokes | Ilaine's E-Z Garb Workshop Ilaine de Cameron | We're going to try an experiment now. Instead of using | a loom, we're going to wind all the yarn into balls ilaine at panix.com | and adopt an infinite number of kittens... From: jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: tablet woven borders Date: 26 Aug 93 12:19:40 Organization: STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, UK. I don't know if anyone else has tried this, but tablet weaving was once used as a starting border for loom weaving. the warp of the main cloth is the weft of the tablet weaving. you produce a piece of tablet weaving with the weft pulled out on one side around a couple of short posts (the posts are hammered into the ground or fixed to one side of a frame you are tablet weaving on) Marta Hoffman gives an excellent description in her book on the warp weighted loom. I tried this as a starting border for a warp weighted loom and it worked fine, but I find the loom excrutiatingly slow to work on. having just restored a 1930s frame loom I tried using a tablet woven header on that. I was told by an expert it couldn't be done, but I didn't really have any problems. I just sewd the tablet weaving to the rod I would have tied the end of the warp to. I suspect I threaded the loom up back to front as I had to do a lot of winding to get the warp even on the back beam, but I wove a couple of inches last night and it worked. the loom will weave up to 40" so I fancy trying a square viking cape on it. The next stage is to figure out how to do tablet woven sides as well. I think if I stick to two threads per card I might be able to fit them through the reed, but I won't get any really fancy patterns that way unless I use brocading. Has anyone else out there tried tablet weaving in association with loom weaving? Has anyone got any suggestions? I think from my reading that most bands that were integral with the cloth and not sewn on were pretty plain, (though the Thorsbjerg cloaks had very wide borders they don't seem to have been patterned) does anyone know if this was the general rule, or know of any exceptions to it? Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: kreyling at lds.loral.com (Ed Kreyling 6966) Subject: Re: Weaving question Organization: Loral Data Systems Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1993 01:50:54 GMT Syr.Bennen.Mactire at p12.f1066.n374.z1.fidonet.org (Syr Bennen Mactire) writes: >Grania, >I am in the process of building one of those big Viking looms, you know >the kind that lean up against the wall. I have two pictures to work from >but need more to work out the details . >Any ideas on books or points of reference that I can turn to? > >Also, how fine a weave can be accomplished on just such a loom? >How much tension is involved? > >I figured you and Brigit might get me pointed in the right direction. > >Earl Benen Subj: Re: Weaving question Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 18:45:15 EDT From: Andrea Longo Subject: Re: Weaving question Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Organization: University of South Florida, Department of Computer Science and Engineering Could you post this for me? I can't post anything again because they won't allow the news software to have enough disk space. It could be days before someone fixes it. **************************************************************** Warp weighted loom?? Yippie! Somehow I missed the original post, but no big problem. There is a book I have looked thru but do not own, "The Warp Weighted Loom" by Marta Hoffman. It is considered one of the best sources on warp-weighted weaving in English. From what I saw, however, the practical information on constructing and weaving is based on modern Scandinavian use. There is an article on constructing and weaving in Early Period (issues 2&3) that I used to build mine. Most of the information I have on actual weaving techniques come from extant fragments and experimentation. There are a few archaeological reports with enough detail to guess at weaving techniques. I had aa lot of problems finding photographs of loom weights and finally ended up making some Anglo-Roman ones from descriptions and some line drawings. I don't know how many of these things were used, because I didn't make near enough to put what I felt was enough tension on the warp. Experimentation answered a lot of questions but brought up many, many more. any fragments from the period appear to have the warp closer than the weft but I had terrible problems with my 35 epi piece -- sticky warp, bad sheds, just a nightmare. I think part of the problem is using larger yarn for the same sett (based on my modern concept of what fabric should look like.) Lots of sources give sett but few talk about what kind or size of yarn was used. I just finished a long discussion on warp weighted looms on rec.crafts.textiles with a woman who does dark-ages recreation named Jennifer . I know of a handful of people who work with warp weighteds, but I am the only person I know here who does. There is another lady in this kingdom who has used a slightly more advanced loom, a variant of the vertical two-beam (similar to the Navajo rug loom.) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: kreyling at lds.loral.com (Ed Kreyling 6966) Subject: Re: Weaving question Organization: Loral Data Systems Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1993 02:16:44 GMT Syr.Bennen.Mactire at p12.f1066.n374.z1.fidonet.org (Syr Bennen Mactire) writes: >I am in the process of building one of those big Viking looms, you know >the kind that lean up against the wall. I have two pictures to work from >but need more to work out the details . >Any ideas on books or points of reference that I can turn to? > "The Viking World" by James Graham-Campbell (Ticknor & Fields, New Haven,1980) has a good diagram (p. 120) of a warp weighted loom. I think I have an exploded diagram in another book but can't lay my hands on it right now. (Oh, the trials of an SCA library). We'll send you a copy. "The Viking" published by Crescent Books, New York (ISBN 0-51744.553-0) has drawings of all of the weaving tools as well. >Also, how fine a weave can be accomplished on just such a loom? >How much tension is involved? I assure you the limit of how fine the weave is will be my skill, not the type of loom. Shouldn't be a problem to do 50 epi (threads per inch, Benen), which is what the Pennsic place mats were, once I get the hang of weaving UP. I have a photo of a scrap dug up at York that must be about 100 epi. The tension isn't a problem since you tie bundles of threads to the loom weights. The finer the thread, the more you tie to the weight. Of course, I will be much more knowledgable after I've had a chance to play, swear, and weave on it for a while. Brigit ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Kreyling | Master Erik of Telemark O.L.,O.P. kreyling at world.lds.loral.com | Shire of Brineside Moor Sarasota,Fl. USA | Kingdom of Trimaris, SCA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.textiles,rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Weaving a rain cloak Date: 2 Nov 93 10:05:44 Organization: STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, UK. I have a few woolen cloaks, some are dark age square types and some more modern tailored designs. I have found that a heavy fulled wool will keep the rain off almost indefinately. I have not found seams a problem, but I used run and fell type seams, (the sort you get on the outside legs of jeans) Maybe this is a particularly waterproof type of seam as it has many layers of cloth. I have a viking style tent (An A frame design with the poles made of wooden beams), this tent has a woolen cover and has stood up to a force seven gale, with accompanying rain. It was pitched inside Harlech castle, in a particularly dumb location: the rain and wind whipped off the sea, hit the front wall of the castle, came over it, and was funnelled into the area by the castle gate. Guess where we pitched the tent? that's right bang in the middle of the wind tunnel by the castle gate. The relevance of all this to cloaks is that the tent cover was heavy wool which was fulled (felted) on one side. Inside the tent was completely dry. The gale carried on overnight and got through some of the modern tents to soak their occupants. It looked as though the wool might have been acting as a wick, drawing the water to ground, you could touch the inside of the tent without water coming through. The woolen cloth the tent was made of had never been washed so it probably had some oil left from the cloths production, but it certainly wasn't dripping in oil. A friend of mine has a guernsey jumper which is oiled wool. The jumper doesn't smell or shed oil, but he claims it is waterproof. I don't know what the oil used is. One of my square capes has been washed often enough to lose any traces of oil the wool may have contained and is still up to an hour in the rain, (I haven't tried it for longer) so I suspect that heavy wool is so waterproof on its own that you don't need to add much oil (unlike cotton which needs to be almost dripping in oil or wax to be proofed) I would definately recommend twill weaves not plain tabby as twill gives you a denser weave. If you are contemplating a seperate hood I would suggest trying to weave that first so that you can make your first learning mistakes on a smaller piece and waste less time and yarn. The irish cloaks with locks of wool woven in are still worn by shepherds in other areas of Europe, Apparently you can stay out as long as the sheep do and stay dry. locks of wool are taken from the raw fleece and threaded into the warp along with the weft. On designs I have seen they are not threaded into every single row. there was a poster on this group who had woven a sample like this. Apparently it is incredibly slow and probably not good as a first project. Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: maclure at eos.arc.nasa.gov (IanMaclure) Subject: Re: fulling Organization: NASA Ames Research Center Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1993 01:06:18 GMT Fulling, if I remember correctly was the process by which woolen garments were dry cleaned prior to the chemical era. It involved Fuller's Earth ( Diatomaceous Earth ) and a great deal of heaving and thumping. Diatomaceous Earth by the way is composed of the skeletons of microscopic prehistoric beasties. If you are discussing making of cloth ( wool ) perhaps you mean "Milling" rather than "Fulling". Tweed is "milled" or used to be in days past. Milling basically involves thumping the cloth back and forth across a sturdy table for hours at a time. IBM ################ No Times Like The Maritimes, Eh! ###################### # IBM aka # ian_maclure at QMGATE.arc.nasa.gov (desk) # # Ian B MacLure # maclure at (remulac/eos).arc.nasa.gov (currently) # ########## Opinions expressed here are mine, mine, mine. ############### From: Sheri.Stanley at p911.f1066.n374.z1.fidonet.org (Sheri Stanley) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Fulling Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1993 18:50:01 -0500 MB> Fulling is done to woven wool cloth, and causes the fibers to felt MB> together, increasing the strength, thickness, and warmth of the cloth. Felting and fulling are not the same thing, though they can both be acheived through the same process. Felt is what you get if you full a piece of wool too long! :) Fulling "fluffs" the fibers, causing them to loosen and become softer, and more full. This often hides inconsistencies in weaving which would stand out in a an unfulled piece. MB> Felting is done to wool fibers, and some others (under special MB> circumtances), producing cloth in the process, which is not woven, and MB> is referred to as felt. Felt does not usually have a grain, as woven MB> goods do. Felt is generally not as strong as an equal thickness of MB> woven fabric, but you can do odd things to it, such as stretching it to MB> make hats, which you cannot do with woven fabric. Felting is done to unwoven fibers...fulling to woven pieces. Any animal fiber will full out nicely...and cotton also tends to "bloom" when fulled. Linen is a lost cause - it doesn't full at all - so any mistakes or inconsistencies stay exactly where you put them! Using a washing machine is a scary proposition! It's terribly easy to over-full an item in it - and once fulled, you can't "un-full" it! Grania From: jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: 14th C textiles & clothing book Date: 11 Jan 94 15:30:14 Organization: STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, UK. I just got a book that might interest someone else out there: Medieval finds from excavations in London: 4 Textiles and Clothing c.1150 - c.1450 Elizabeth Crowfoot, Frances Pritchard and Kay Staniland Published HMSO 1992 copyright of the Board of Governors of the Museum of London ISBN 0 11 290445 9 Price 29.95 pounds sterling Most of the stuff is fourteenth century, though as the books title says the range is from c.1150-c.1450 The book begins with details of sources and where the textiles were found, then there is a short chapter on techniques used in textile production. This has some very dodgy looking drawings of looms, there seems to be no way to move the beaters on them, either They've missed something or medieval looms were wierder than I thought. Then the book goes into details on weaves and structures with chapters on wool, goathair, linen, silk and mixed cloths. The wool chapter even includes a couple of pages on knitting and one on felt. The chapter on silk is a masterpiece of deduction, by hunting around ancient silks the authors have reproduced patterns of whole pieces of cloth from tiny scraps and offcuts. A whole chapter is devoted to narrow wares including tablet woven braids, fingerloop braids, plaited braids, garters and hairnets. This was my favourite, as I'm a tablet weaving freak, there was a good description of a method of sewing braid onto edges by simultaneously weaving and sewing, using the weft of the braid as the sewing thread. I'm dying to find something to try this out on. There is also a chapter on sewing with lots of detail on stuff like how seams were sewn, how cloth buttons were made, how the buttonholes were stitched, how to edge necks you name it, it's there. Anyone like me who spends hours fiddling about with fiddle about with period details that hardly anyone appreciates will love this section. There is not so much on patterns of clothing as mostly the stuff found was very fragmentary, but there are pictures of hoods and hose that are complete enough to work out a pattern from. There is also a well preserved buttoned sleeve which might interest someone with a masochistic inclination to make buttonholes by the dozen! The illustrations are great with lots of colour plates and close ups, so you can see every detail of the textiles. The text puts everything into context and cites just about every other relevant find there is. This is definately not a beginners book, and it's quite expensive, but if you're looking for something to add to a 14th century English costume and you've run out of sources, this is the book for you. I don't even do 14th century stuff and I got it anyway, I can never resist a good book on textiles, maybe that's why I never have enough money left over to buy the bookshelves I need to put them all on! Jennifer Vanaheim Vikings From: Gregory Young Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: CRAFT : Inkle Looms and Yarn... Date: Sat, 19 Nov 1994 18:41:14 -0600 Organization: The University of Manitoba I read your message concerning yarns for an inkle loom. I have done a lot of weaving, and some the materials that I use are: the cotton knitting yarns - these are made from cotton fibres and do not matt like the various wool and rayon/acrylic yarns; embroidery cotton, skeins, perle No 8 and perle No.5; crochet cotton (which I really like for weaving belts). There is also weaving yarn that is spun for people who use frame looms. It comes in various weights and is available at weaving and craft stores. Where I live (Winnipeg, Manitoba) there is a knitting and weaving store that caters to the 4 harness loom people, they also carry yarns for us inkle weavers. (I have even seen people use 'rat's tail' cord in weaving, also butcher twine). I like to use my imagination and experiment with as many different types of thread/yarn possible. Hope this is of some use. Enjoy! Mistress Hermina Matilda de Ainesleah of Meredene (just call me Ainesleah) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: CRAFT : Inkle Looms and Yarn... From: (ssgt miller m.s.) Date: 21 Nov 94 16:56:12 CST In message <3ahagh$sm3 at delphinium.cig.mot.com>, garvey at poohbear.cig.mot.com (Heather L. Garvey) writes: > I picked up an inkle loom at Pennsic and I've made a couple >lengths of trim on it. I want to start getting serious, but I'm having >a hard time find good material - smooth, not-too-thin 'yarn'. I use 10/2 or 5/2 mercerized cotton for inkle projects. Any local yarn store should be willing to order it for you. They also should be able to give you a contact number for your local weaving/spinning guild. Martin From: bridave at MCS.COM (Janice Skaggs) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Craft: Inkle Looms and Yarn.. Date: 20 Nov 1994 10:27:46 -0600 Organization: MCSNet Subscriber Account, Chicago's First Public-Access Internet! Buy a cheap can of spray net, it washes out and keeps the thread from "Mating" although you do get fuzz balls. See me at 12th night or call and I'll give you some sources in Chicago for yarns and stuff. I also sell looms and loom supplies to renies SCA people. Bridget (312) 262-8915 From: sapalmer at magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Sharon A Palmer) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: CRAFT : Inkle Looms and Yarn... Date: 15 Dec 1994 19:37:26 GMT Organization: The Ohio State University In article <97f_9412110453 at blkcat.fidonet.org>, Sheri Stanley quotes someone not identified: > >> I picked up an inkle loom at Pennsic and I've made a couple > >> lengths of trim on it. I want to start getting serious, but I'm having > >> a hard time find good material - smooth, not-too-thin 'yarn'. I usually use crochet cotton. It is strong and smooth, easily available in many colors and is a nice weight for trim. I use a metallic gold or silver in narrow stripes with it. The colors are usually too bright, so I put in some darker warps also. I put garb with this trim in the washer and dryer. There is a store here in Columbus Ohio that sells 'seconds' balls that got mashed or broke off at the factory at 20 cents an ounce. Ranvaig Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: lhorvath at badlands.NoDak.edu (Lorine S Horvath) Subject: tablet weaving patterns Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 22:11:21 GMT Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network The techniques of tablet weaving, by Peter Collingwood is a marvelous source. He lists archaeological finds, and discusses their patterns and how to achieve them, along with lots of other information. Fiona ni Cai From: vinwaluf2 at aol.com (VINWALUF2) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: tablet weaving patterns Date: 31 May 1995 21:32:42 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Another book you may want to find is "Tablet Weaving" by Egon Hansen. (I got my copy from Unicorn Textile Books). It's a bit of a bear to read, as it was evidently (poorly) translated from the original Finnish, but the bulk of the items he covers are from archaeological textiles. Hope this is of help. Gwennan ferch Gwydion O'Ddyved Barony of AnCrosaire Trimaris Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Scots Scholarship Needed From: una at bregeuf.stonemarche.org (Honour Horne-Jaruk) Date: Mon, 10 Jul 95 07:51:32 EDT China writes: > If this date is true, why was one of the punishments of the Jacobite > Revolution, by the King of England, was to outlaw wearing of tartans. > (Remember that the two main uprising were in the 1700's.) Respected Friend: Please note that the (incredibly nit-picky) wording of 18th cent. laws did not, in that case, include either the word "clan" or any legally equivalent phrase, and didn't even include "scottish" or any legally equivalent modifier. The law just outlawed "tartan". All tartan. Any tartan. Tartan was well known as THE Scots cloth long before any clan had been pounded into the Sobieski's rather-too-small molds. After Prince Charlie's unsuccsessful uprising, many "relics" from the battlefields were lovingly preserved. It is interesting to note that _not one_ of these relics matches _any_ Sobieski "Clan tartan". It is also- at least to a weaver- interesting to note that some of them weren't even twill weave. (To a weaver, that opens the possibility that parts of the fighting force may have come from places where the ancient upright loom was still in use. While it's possible to weave twill on an upright loom, it isn't anything resembling easy.) ...Ain't science wunnerful? Yours in service to the Society- (Friend) Honour Horne-Jaruk R.S.F. Alizaunde, Demoiselle de Bregeuf C.O.L. SCA Una Wicca (That Pict) From: deporodh at aol.com (Deporodh) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Scots Scholarship Needed Date: 14 Jul 1995 00:19:06 -0400 bjm10 at cornell.edu (Bryan Maloney) writes: > Clan tartans were invented after AD1800. MODERN clan tartans were invented after 1800 CE. Roman descriptions of many years before attempt to define the "checked" patterns you get when you weave the same pattern in warp and weft. Alizaunde, Demoiselle de Bregeuf, writes in response: > Three factors: > Weavers are creatures of habit. Plaids make this worse. Working with >a horizontal stripe or a plaid, it's easy to tell how much you've woven at >the end of the day; weavers like that. They also like having such an easy >way to tell good work from bad... >Cloth can't be dyed with plants that don't exist. Each area of >Scotland is very much stuck with its native dyeplants, and thus with colors >those dyeplants can produce. This means that each region has a set of >"Common" colors which the experienced can peg evey time. >Setting up a loom is a very wasteful process, and used to be more so. >Nobody did it more often than was absolutely unavoidable. This means >that a man ordering plaid for a group is going to have the same plaid for the >whole group, so that the loom only gets dressed once, and the waste is >minimized. >Result: Each weaver has plaids he weaves, each region has colors it >uses, each lord has his men dressed in the same plaid for long periods of >time. This fellow fiber-fan has reached my own conclusions and added a few fine insights of her own (from experience, I suspect), thus cutting down my need to point these things out. From my readings 20 years ago on the subject, Scottish weavers before the Acts of Proscription recorded their patterns on "sett sticks," which displayed the thread colors and counts in order (an easy way to record the quadrilaterally or bilaterally symmetrical patterns used). Since the very weaving of tartan was prohibited by those acts for more than a generation (enacted 1746, repealed 1782 or 83) and (like all other things in the acts) made a transportable or hanging offense (only two strikes and you're out!), such small items as little colored sticks were pretty thoroughly lost. If *I* wanted to try to investigate pre-'45 tartan patterns AND had a nice, juicy grant to support me, I'd spend a year or three talking to the oldest families in the remote NC and TN and WV Appalachian hill communities and just see whether any of g'g'g'g'g'-granny's old weaving junk came this-a-way with her and survived in some fiber-traditional family. Mistress Deporodh of Rannoch, O.L., called Dis Stigandi inactive From: wildgoose at gateway.ecn.com (Keith Cunningham) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Family tartan Date: 19 Jul 1995 17:44:06 -0700 Organization: West Coast Computer Products A long series of modern myth repetitions concerning Tartans has again surfaced. Some of them are true, some are just myths, and some are outright saxon lies. The saxons lies 1] that family tartans are a modern invention. 2] that sett sticks are lost 3] that you can't produce the same color from one year to the next or that you can't produce a dyestock with out the right materials grown locally. Gael truth 1] family and district tartans go back hundreds of years. The registration and publication is a modern affectation. 2] Sett sticks are lost. There is a musuem in the Striling area that has huge numbers of these sett sticks on display. 3] The was/is a thriving cross channel trade in dye stock. I have heard these and others till I am sick of them and would just like to drive a stick thru their heart before they rise from the dead again. Slante' Keith Cunningham From: priest at vassar.edu (Carolyn Priest-Dorman) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Weaving and the SCA Date: 11 May 1996 00:19:38 GMT Organization: Vassar College Greeting from Thora Sharptooth! Tamar the Gypsy (dickeney at access1.digex.net) wrote: >>I was thinking more about what kind of looms are available, what they >>cost, how to construct them, what yarns were available/period for use, >>etc... > >Period yarns include wool. With a possibility of goat hair (Kashmir, >other goat herding areas) and cow hair (I believe a pair of cow-hair socks >were found, but they were needle-knotted rather than knitted or woven) and >perhaps other animal hairs in isolated circumstances. IIRC the surviving >woolen materials are fairly coarse -- the thinnest cloak found in an >oak-tree burial was woven of the equivalent of modern knitted worsted. That may be true for the Bronze Age hewn-oak coffin burials from northern Europe, but it is definitely not true for wool textiles in the centuries that most SCA personae inhabit. Many surviving woolen materials from northern Europe in the so-called Dark Ages, for example, are significantly finer than this suggests. Some sample thread counts from Viking Age finds follow. For each pair of numbers, the first number represents the number of warp threads per centimeter, the second the number of weft threads per centimeter. Birka 18x9, 30x16 Hedeby 33x18, 24x15 Jorvik 14x10, 14x11 Kaupang 36x15, 19x10, 15x11, 19x13 Oseberg 30x14, 27x23, 19x13 In order to weave any one of these particular wools, you'd have needed to start with a singles warp yarn that is significantly thinner than 1mm in diameter. Anything thicker than 1mm will yield you a warp thread count in the single digits per centimeter. Period yarns also included linen, hemp, silk, and even some ramie and cotton (in specific times and places). One of these days I hope to find the time to web up a bunch of my bibliographical materials on early period textiles. For now, contact me if you need a reference for the above. *************************************************************************** Carolyn Priest-Dorman Thora Sharptooth priest at vassar.edu Frostahlid, Austrrik Gules, three square weaver's tablets in bend Or *************************************************************************** From: wiltshir at sover.net (S. Wiltshire) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: New hobby- weaving Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 05:37:16 GMT Organization: SoVerNet, Inc. Lord Whoever wrote: > I am considering learning a new skill, weaving (yes, everyone in my > household, especially my lady, thinks I've finally lost it, but...). I > don't plan on anything too elaborate, just some 24" wide tartan. The > question is, where to get the loom (or plans to build it). I should be > able to live with a simple fixed heddle loom, Well, as you've already been informed, you'll need at least a 4 harness loom to do a proper tartan. Plans do exist, a source in general of good textile books is Unicorn books in Petaluma California 1-800-BUY YARN, and I think they may have a book or two with plans. BUT... this is quite the undertaking, and you may care to hang out a bit, or post a note over in rec.crafts.textiles.marketplace, that you're looking for a cheap, used 4 harness loom. Also put word out locally, in your papers, and check with any local weaving guilds. If you need to find a local weaving guild, try picking Handwoven magazine from a Barnes and Noble. They often keep listings. I have stumbled onto many the cheap (and even free!) loom, often when not really looking too hard, and most often in my own backyard. Oh, and lastly, if you do hook up with a local weaving guild they may even have a loom you can borrow! :-) Good luck! Sadia From: foxd at ezinfo.ucs.indiana.edu (Daniel Boyd Fox) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: New hobby- weaving Date: 14 Jan 1997 06:06:22 GMT Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington Mary Shafer wrote: >In article <5bah62$hs2$3 at gryphon.phoenix.net>, >Lord Whoever wrote: >>I am considering learning a new skill, weaving (yes, everyone in my >>household, especially my lady, thinks I've finally lost it, but...). I >>don't plan on anything too elaborate, just some 24" wide tartan. The >>question is, where to get the loom (or plans to build it). I should be >>able to live with a simple fixed heddle loom, but if I knew I probably >>wouldn't be asking. I need to be able to do 24" by a minimum of 5 >>yards. Is there a good way to learn about this stuff? > >Pick up the latest issue of "Handweaving", put out by Interweave >Press. Between the Interweave Press books and the ads in the >magazine, you'll find everything you need to select a loom, buy or >build one, find your threads, and weave your tartan. > >My local Waldenbook sells the magazine, so it's not hard to find. >-- >Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer at ursa-major.spdcc.com >URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html Good plug except the magazine is called _Handwoven_. Their address is: Interweave Press 201 East Fourth Street Loveland, Colorado 80537 (800) 645-3675. Ask for a catalog of books. I especially recommend _Learning to Weave_ by Deborah Chandler. It's a good, easly to follow guide for beginning weavers. Audelindis de Rheims From: dalton at ea.net (Nancy Dalton) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: New hobby- weaving Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 13:06:21 GMT deadpool at phoenix.net (Lord Whoever) wrote: >I am considering learning a new skill, weaving >Is there a good way to learn about this stuff? Greetings, At the risk of repeating other's good information here are my twopence. Learning to Weave by Deborah Chandler is a good beginner's weaving book that covers everything from planning to warping to weaving to finishing. Unfortunately I have no recommendations for books on weaving tartans, but they do exist and can probably be found either in the library or a bookstore. Guilds are good sources of information as has already been mentioned, but there is also a weaving list. To subscribe send an email to majordomo at quilt.net with subscribe weaving in the body of the email. Until just recently Peter Collingwood was on the list and even though he's taking a weaving break there are very knowledgeable and helpful people still subscribed. Nancy Dalton ska Earnwynn van Zwaluwenburg From: theducks at greenduck.com (Steve Urbach) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: New hobby- weaving Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 18:09:16 GMT Organization: Green Duck Designs foxd at ezinfo.ucs.indiana.edu (Daniel Boyd Fox) wrote: >Good plug except the magazine is called _Handwoven_. Their address is: > >Interweave Press >201 East Fourth Street >Loveland, Colorado 80537 > >(800) 645-3675. You folks are giving us all the fun. Green Duck Stocks the below mentiond book: Stock No IP03 $21.95 >Ask for a catalog of books. I especially recommend _Learning to Weave_ >by Deborah Chandler. It's a good, easly to follow guide for beginning >weavers. > >Audelindis de Rheims Derek _ | \ Steve Urbach | )erek ____|_/ragonsclaw theducks at greenduck.com / / / http://www.greenduck.com From: theducks at greenduck.com (Steve Urbach) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: New hobby- weaving Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 18:12:39 GMT Organization: Green Duck Designs dalton at ea.net (Nancy Dalton) wrote: >deadpool at phoenix.net (Lord Whoever) wrote: >>I am considering learning a new skill, weaving > >>Is there a good way to learn about this stuff? > >At the risk of repeating other's good information here are my >twopence. > >Learning to Weave by Deborah Chandler is a good beginner's weaving >book that covers everything from planning to warping to weaving to >finishing. Unfortunately I have no recommendations for books on >weaving tartans, but they do exist and can probably be found either in >the library or a bookstore. The Green Duck here again: We have a book Published by Robin & Russ Handweavers Scarlettt - Tartan weavers Guide (hb) 228 Designs $16.95 Stock code SW078 Derek _ | \ Steve Urbach | )erek ____|_/ragonsclaw theducks at greenduck.com / / / http://www.greenduck.com From: Brett and Karen Williams Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Hoerning grave (Danish ca 1000) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 21:15:46 -0800 Dorothy J Heydt wrote: > Maggie Mulvaney wrote: > > > >...According to the source it was a woman buried on > >a cart, in an early Christian burial. The interesting thing is the > >remains of her garment. All that remains is a rather wide band of > >silverworked tabletwoven braid, which lies loose on her left side and > >is wrapped around her right arm. .... > > Based on what I've read, I suspect the woman was wearing a common > Germanic early-period garment sometimes called a "tube dress" or > "Haengerock." This resembled (to some extent) a Greek peplos, > and consisted of a tube of fabric (apparently fabric could be > woven in a continuous tube on a warp-weighted loom, don't ask > *me* how they did it), say four feet in length and maybe four > or five feet in circumference. Yes, it's possible-- double-cloth is, to my knowledge, a four-harness structure, and would be extremely tiresome to execute on a warp-weighted loom due to the vertical orientation of the warp together with the typical lack of a reed. (For non-weavers, warp-weighted cloth is done from the height of the weaver's reach down to the floor, pushing weft up into the newly formed cloth). The Hallstadt graves have some stunning twills done with multiple-shaft techniques-- see the cover of the paperback edition of Professor Barber's "Prehistoric Textiles", for example. This is a threading draft for double-cloth, which assumes a pair of selvedges along one side of the loom. To read the graph, I've used a * for a spacer. This assumes a straight draw double-sleyed through the reed (translation for non-weavers: two warp strings through each space in the reed/beater of the horizontal loom, then threaded 1-2-3-4 in sequential order through the heddles hanging from the shafts or harnesses). ***B **A* *B** A*** I believe you'd treadle 1&3, 2&4, 1&3, 2&4 etc., as you wove. A would be the top layer, B is the lower layer; you'd have to make sure that you caught the warp correctly along the fold edge before turning back. The cloth would be formed in the shape of a sideways "U". So, harnesses or shafts 1 and 3 weave one layer, harnesses or shafts 2 and 4 weave the other. <> > Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin Dorothy J. Heydt > Mists/Mists/West Albany, California > PRO DEO ET REGE djheydt at uclink And before someone gets the bright idea that weaving two separate lengths of cloth warped on the loom simultaneously is practical with either a new-fangled horizontal loom or a warp-weighted loom :) : "I remember thinking how clever it would be to weave two sets of placemats at one time, sone set on each layer. And while it would seem as though I was weaving one, when it came off I'd really have two sets. I thought about that for a little while, and I began to realize potential problems. First, errors are more likely in the bottom layer because you can't see it. Therefore, my bottom placemats mibht need a lot of repair work. Then there's the matter of speed. While weaving two sets off at once might seem efficient, the contant shuttle exchange consumes more time than you might possibly save. Using one shuttle and weaving off a warp twice as long would be faster. And finally, a warp twice as long would have one set of loom waste*, whereas a double-weave warp, with twice as many warp ends, would have twice the loom waste. About that point in my pondering, I abandoned the idea of weaving off a double-weave warp as two entirely separate layers, for placemats or anything else." Deborah Chandler, _Learning to Weave_, revised edition, Interweave Press ISBN 1-883010-03-9 *loom waste is the inevitable parts of warp that cannot be woven due to position of the warp on the loom. By its nature a warp-weighted loom has less loom waste than a horizontal loom-- there's no restriction on the position of the fell line (translation: where the actual cloth is formed by the insertion of weft) due to presence of a reed. For example, my loom has about 20" of loom waste, no matter how long my warp is, due to the fact that I have to tie the warp to both the back beam and the cloth beam. I have to start weaving at a particular point away from the initial knots on the cloth beam, then there's only so far I can advance the warp onto the cloth beam before running out of travel space. A warp-weighted loom has weights tied to warp bundles instead of a back beam. I hope this explanation makes sense! ciorstan (by no means anything near an expert weaver...I like card weaving the best right now!) From: foxd at ezinfo.ucs.indiana.edu (Daniel Boyd Fox) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Hoerning grave (Danish ca 1000) Date: 25 Jan 1997 00:45:56 GMT Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington If I remember correctly Margrethe Hald, in _Old Danish Textiles_ is of the opinion that the Huldermose garment (The "bog dress" which is the only extant tubular dress we have--haengarock's being _wrapped_ not tubular) was not woven on a 4-harness loom (which didn't arrive in Europe until much later) or a warp-weighted loom. It was woven on a special type of loom with a tubular warp. Geijer shows how these looms work in her _A History of Textile Art_. Audelindis de Rheims From: priest at vassar.edu (Carolyn Priest-Dorman) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Weaving URLs Date: 19 Feb 1997 21:04:20 GMT Organization: Vassar College Greeting from Thora Sharptooth! Today I have posted two bibliographies on my website. "Bibliography of Sources for Information on Period Tablet Weaves" (http://www.cs.vassar.edu/~capriest/tweavebib.html) is an annotated bibliography of print resources that deal with tablet weaving during the period of the SCA. "Just What Exactly is "Whyt Samyt" Anyway?" (http://www.cs.vassar.edu/~capriest/textilebiblio.html) is an annotated bibliography of technical information for handweavers on divers weaves and setts of the Roman Empire, Middle Ages, and Renaissance. Both are available from my Textile Resources page, http://www.cs.vassar.edu/~capriest/textileres.html. This notice has been posted to the Rialto and the East Kingdom list; I will also be sending a separate notice to the CARDS e-list. Please feel free to share this notice more widely. ***************************************************************** Carolyn Priest-Dorman Thora Sharptooth priest at vassar.edu Frostahlid, Austrriki Gules, three square weaver's tablets in bend Or ***************************************************************** From: Don Humberson Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Period looms and weaving? Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 22:48:27 -0500 Iain mac Griogair wrote: > If any one as any information of period looms and weavings I would be > appreciative. I would like to attempt to make a plaid. Milord mac Grogair, Any 4 shaft loom should allow you to weave plaids. The Scots' clan tartans are basically plaids woven with the same design in the warp and woof. Go back far enough and the loom was a stick at the roof and a bunch of weights tied to bundles of warp threads. If you live close to the Manning's, or can get access to a modern 4-shaft loom some other way, try a simple 2/2 twill for a few feet. A plaid or tartan needs multiple shuttles loaded with different colors, and will go better if you are already making good even selveges and are comfortable weaving a smooth twill. If you would like citations for actual setts, books on weaving tartans, or just general info on weaving, let me know. Ragnar Ketilsson, East, Aethelmearc, Endless Hills Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 08:26:04 -0700 From: Brett and Karen Williams To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Fraying Irene leNoir wrote: > Mel commented: > > only very open weave linen behaves this way > > I have to disagree here. I have some very high threadcount fine linen garb that is slowly fraying itself apart at the seams. (made before I got my serger BTW.) The looser weaves will fray more quickly and obviously, but I've found that they will all fray over time. And I will add that a fraying fabric is primarily caused by the way the weft was inserted into the warp by the machine that wove the cloth. Fiber composition is pretty much irrelevant most of the time. Even loosely woven cottons, wools and silks will fray. With a hand loom, the weaver pulls the reed, a slotted device, firmly back towards the cloth to force the weft into the warp, which in weaver's terminology is called 'beating' (or in the case of a two-beam or warp-weighted loom, the weaver uses a fork-device, a tapestry beater or a weaving sword to beat the weft into the warp). Literally. The overwhelming majority of modern cloth is woven on high speed machines that do not beat weft into the warp the way a hand loom would. (Incidentally, see the trade-off for cheap, vast quanties of cloth? and highly beaten cloth takes more raw goods, the thread to weave, meaning more expense for the manufacturer...) The firmer the beat, the less of a tendency for fraying and raveling. All fabrics will ravel to some extent, unless there's been some finishing applied to prevent it-- for example, wool cloths that have been fulled or even partially felted. The trick is anticipating how that cloth is going to behave, and head it off at the pass before it starts to self-destruct. ciorstan Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 00:35:32 -0700 From: Brett and Karen Williams To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Looms & weaving Miesje Devogel wrote: > Does anyone have any references for constructing an authentic loom, or > even for how to weave different patterns/ appropriate cloth? > > miesje Grump, grump, grump. I had spent an hour composing this really cool reply with links and fun stuff, but Netscape crashed. I'll try again. *sigh* Miesje, you're in Australia. I'm limited in my references to sites and citations I've found here in the United States, nonetheless I hope this will give you some pointers-- and I hope you won't find my reply too ethno-centric on USA/Europe. I haven't done a whole lot of active research into these topics, but I am a web-wanderer and avid reader and have wended my way through information you might find of interest. Firstly, you have three very broad requests there, the last one is relatively easy to give a link. Mistress Thora Sharptooth (Carolyn Priest-Dorman) is a weaver interested in period fabric construction (though admittedly primarily tablet weaving...). She's found at: http://www.vassar.edu/~capriest/ and her textile bibliographies are very extensive!! Interweave Press has a book called A Weaver's Book of Eight Shaft Weaving Patterns, ISBN 0-934026-67-, edited by Carol Strickler, that contains a lot of undocumented-though-conjecturally-period drafts and drawdowns for gorgeous twills, perfect for the Society handweaver. Check out samples 270 and 271!! Your second request involves information on building a loom. If you've been reading the discussion earlier on warp-weighted looms vs. horizontal looms, primarily you want to decide what kind of fabric you want as an end product. With respect to constructing a warp-weighted loom, a good illustration of a simple warp-weighted loom in business is located at Master Gerekr's page: http://www.users.aol.com/gerekr/costume/html#warp and another, encyclopedic page (Ullarbladid) showing several pictures of more elaborate warp-weighted looms with explanatory parts listed in Icelandic and English at: http://www.dmv.com/~iceland/vefstadur/vefstadur.html a weaver's source page is maintained by Ruthe Stowe at: http://home.netinc.ca/~rstowe/weave.html with links to Ullarbladid, Robin and Russ, Halcyon and many more sources of yarns, entire pre-made looms and parts. This cryptic remark will make sense in a moment. While we're on the subject o warp-wieighted looms, a Navaho-style loom could be easily modified to a warp-weighted loom by omitting the lower apron rod. I mention this as my late step-mother, a professional weaver by trade, built herself a big one out of metal plumbing pipe and lumber, on which she wove (amongst other things) an incredible 5' by 8' tapestry of hand-spun and -dyed wool. I do not have a handy link showing a 'modern' floor loom with all the parts labelled, alas, so if my following answer is too technical, let me know and I'll gladly translate. I am not a particularly experienced weaver, however I've enough that I have already formed definite opinions about what I want in a horizontal loom-- and what I don't want. Building a horizontal loom would be a more massive undertaking than a warp-weighted loom due to the simple fact that as a piece of machinery, it is a more complicated device than the warp-weighted loom. At a minimum, the hard parts to construct would be the pulley system in the castle, foot pedals, shafts and heddle-races, and the reed-- which parts are crucial to the operation of a horizontal loom and to some extent, define the horizontal loom. At a minimum one needs two shafts/harnesses to form a shed (that's the opening in the warp threads used to insert the weft, thus forming fabric at a point called the fell line). I've seen commercial looms advertized for 2-, 4-, 8-, 12-, 16- and even 24-shafts/harnesses. Mine own loom hath eight-- and ten pedals (this allows one to tie up plain cloth, or tabby, in addition to an eight-shaft draw-down, or in the alternative, a ten-shaft pattern and no tabby. I digress.) and it weaves 21" cloth. *I* think it's perfect, for now. :) Then there's the reed. On a commercially-made horizontal loom, the reed is the metal dingus that beats the weft into the shed. It also serves as an alignment device for the warp as it travels from the back beam, throught the heddles to the fell line. In period it was constructed out of, well, reeds, which I presume were probably the same reeds used in period corsetry, called bents. In the eastern United States it is possible to luck out and buy a barn with the ancient barn loom still contained therein (usually in questionable condition)-- and its reed, or find a barn loom for sale as an antique. I have personally never examined an antique reed, so I cannot comment with any authority theron, other than to say that I once read an article by a production weaver who did use a barn loom with antique reed to weave American Revolutionary-style cloth; she preferred the vegetable reed for this type of cloth over a modern steel reed for reasons I don't remember at this point other than the recollection that her reasoning made perfect sense at the time. Robin and Russ Handweavers, Inc., sell loom parts. I personally have two stainless steel reeds for my loom (no rust!), 6- and 12-dents to the inch, and I'm currently lusting after a 10- or 20-dent as I really want to weave some fine linen, like 40 or 60 ppi. Eventually. :) My current project is a wool/silk blend that after one inch of weaving has already suffered two broken warps out of 199 total; the yarn is relatively hairy and is hanging up in the heddles and reed. This goes back to my earlier comment on knowing what you want to produce as a final product-- a warp-weighted loom would be easier on wool due to its lack of reed and string heddles; bast and cotton are easier on a horizontal loom. My silk/wool is double sleyed 24 picks per inch in a 12-dent reed, which is easier on wool warp, but... At any rate, I need to get to bed, so I will stop yacking! I hope this helps, though it's very general, as I said. ciorstan Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 11:45:42 -0500 From: Wendy Robertson To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: 16C Irish Looms & Leine There is an interesting article about early Christian Irish loom widths. This is much earlier than the 16th century, but I thought it might be of interest anyway. Hodkinson, Brian. "A reappraisal of the archaeological evidence for weaving in Ireland in the early Christian period." Ulster journal of archaeology, 3rd ser., v.50 (1987):47-53. The article states that there is a noticeable lack of looms weights from Ireland, so the warp weighted loom was probably not heavily used. "The 120 sites which are included in this survey (and which probably represent over 90% of the settlement sites published up to and including 1985) have produced a miximum of 20 loom weights." (p.47) Instead of warp weighted looms, the author suggests two beam vertical looms were used (introduced from Romans) and backstrap looms were used. Backstrap looms would produce a very narrow cloth. "There are few surviving Early Christian textiles with both selvedges; the only examples known to the writer are single pieces from Lagore and Balinderry 2, both of which are narrow, with widths of 34.5 cms (13 1/2 inches) and 25 cms (10 inches) respectively. . . . The simple tabby weaves of the Lagore textiles are perfectly possible on this type of loom" (p.48) The author suggests that later use of narrow cloth in Irish garments may come from this weaving tradition. Ailene nic Aedain Shire of Shadowdale, Calontir wcrobert at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 10:07:38 -0600 (CST) From: "Donna Holsten" To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: RE: inkle weaving & warp faced band weaving I remembered to look at my books last night! I found a bunch of examples of garters, belts, and otherwise unidentified tapes, in _Textiles_, some costume/textile books I have, as well as in several jewelery books my husband has. (They have close-up pictures of buckles, many of which still have some fabric attached.) The items ranged from early AD to 16th Century. (Just to make sure we're working from the same vocabulary, because a couple times I've gotten the feeling that maybe we aren't quite, "tabby" simply means over-one, under-one. It's a weave structure, not necessarily an end result. Tabby can be "weft-faced", like in tapestry, or 50/50, or "warp-faced", or anywhere in between. _Textiles_ uses the term "tabby" to differentiate the items from "cardwoven" or otherwise produced--not necessarily as a description of how the piece ends up looking.) All the pictures of *patterned* items (except the tapestry-woven Coptic/Byzantine strips) look to be card-woven. In fact, the only non-card-woven tapes/belts/garters I saw were in _Textiles_ and a Viking (?) belt that was leather with a loose 50/50 tabby silk over the leather. There are a couple pieces in _Textiles_ that are 50/50 tabby silk strips--but I'm not really sure if they're tapes, or strips cut from a larger piece of fabric. The pieces shown on page 142 are warp-faced. In fact, if you look at the chart on page 141, the tapes they found range from (threads per cm, warp/weft) a 30/30 evenweave to a 48/13 *very* warp-faced fabric. While it is possible to do elaborate finger-manipulated weaves based on a rigid-heddle tabby, you're right in that it's a bit easier to do it with card-weaving. (Which, I imagine, is why most/all the extant pieces with elaborate patterning are card-woven... That, and the fact that you get a somewhat sturdier fabric.) _Textiles_ says that the examples they have seem to be of all one color, although "similar silk ribbons stitched to vestments show that many were made with multi-colored stripes." (Page 142) And then, on page 144, it talks about garters made with "a long warp...set up on a narrow band loom", one of which has red and black stripes, in a slightly-more-complicated-than-tabby weave. (I can't tell from the picture, though, whether it's 50/50 or warp-faced.) I think, as a safe general statement, if an item was to be very patterned, or used as a belt, it would have been card-woven. 50/50 *and* warp-faced tabby strips were used as facings, garters, trim, or maybe tie-ribbons. Most of the tabby strips would have been monocolor, but some were striped or patterned. > ...I was wondering if there was any evidence for bands of the type that could > be made on an inkle loom. It would be nice to be able to say that such > weaving was actually period. I would certainly say, yes, used for the appropriate purpose, it was. (The finished product is, even if the loom used maybe isn't... ) And, something I have to keep reminding myself, is that even though _Textiles_ is exhaustive and a wonderful resource, it only covers London from about 1100-1400. It doesn't even *touch* other times or places. Actually, IMHO the *biggest* problem I see with most of the inkle/card weaving people do, is that the yarn is *way* too coarse and/or overplied. Now, granted, for the first few projects people aren't exactly going to be able to use embroidery thread or reeled silk, but a heavy crochet-cotton cord just doesn't quite give the right results. ;-) If you look at the chart in _Textiles_ on page 141, the coarsest tabby-woven braid they have is 28/12 warp/weft threads *per centimeter*. (And that also happens to be the only wool tape listed.) Which means about 70/30 threads *per inch*. Quite frankly, if you manage to inkle-weave a tape that fine, probably less than one percent of the people who see it are even going to be able to tell whether it was inkle- or card-woven! ;-) I hope this helped a little... Joanna Melissa Ronsivalle Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 08:37:31 -0700 From: Brett and Karen Williams To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Inkle Weaving Laurie Luczyk wrote: > I have been inkle weaving for a while now and have a question on the > best methods to finish the ends after a piece is removed from the loom. > Currently I am just braiding the fringe, but am very unhappy with the > way it looks. Also, if I decide to us it as trim this method will not > work. > > Any suggestions/comments? > -Lady Anisah Sahar I tend to think that a finishing method I would recommend for use as fabric trim would be dependent on what fiber you're using in your inkle bands. Is it wool? Cotton? Linen? Slippery silk? How thick is the band (which is not to say, how wide or long...)? As an example, my one and only inkle length to date is of fairly thick wool (tablet weaving appeals more to my sensibilities... personal preference. Besides, the design possibilities are greater! ;) ). I haven't bothered finishing the long ends yet as it doesn't seem to have any raveling going on. If I were to use it for trim (leine bands for sleeves seem to be its destination), then I'd hand stitch the long edges on, I'd knot the band's raw edge off using a lot of little knots to avoid bulk, carefully turn under the raw edge of the band, perhaps give it a light glob of Fray Check where no sins would be seen between the fabric and the band and hand-stitch the opening shut. Some variation of this idea would most likely work. ciorstan Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 11:42:24 -0400 (EDT) From: "Charles J. Cohen" To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Inkle Weaving >From a friend of mine - Midair From: TLBougher at aol.com Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 11:18:39 -0400 (EDT) << I have been inkle weaving for a while now and have a question on the best methods to finish the ends after a piece is removed from the loom. Currently I am just braiding the fringe, but am very unhappy with the way it looks. Also, if I decide to us it as trim this method will not work. Macrame is an option for finishing ends when using as a belt. If the inkle is to be used as trim, there is no need to finish the ends at all (unless you just want to prevent unraveling in storage -- in which case, you might just tie the loose warp threads into a knot or run the ends of the woven section through the sewing machine). Another option for finishing the end of the woven section is to cut the weft about a foot from the finished piece. Place a tapestry needle onto the weft and thread the weft back through the last three picks of weaving. Doing this at the beginning of the weaving is a good idea as well. This will secure the weaving and prevent unraveling. I learned this trick from Mistress Alexis. Either of us could demonstrate it for you if my explanation is insufficient. Anne Marie de Garmeaulx (avid inkle weaver) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 12:50:30 -0400 (EDT) From: SNSpies at aol.com To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Inkle Weaving Remember that with tabletwoven bands, you just do not have the problem of fraying at the ends. The weft might loosen for a row or two, but you won't lose the whole weave. Just tucking under the cut ends and sewing it all down will hold everything nicely. Nancy (Ingvild) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 14:12:39 -0400 (EDT) From: SNSpies at aol.com To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Inkle Weaving << I have been inkle weaving for a while now and have a question on the best methods to finish the ends after a piece is removed from the loom. >> I can tell you how at least tabletwoven bands historically were finished, if that helps. If used as belts or cingulums, they were either left fringed, sometimes with another small band across the end to cover the space where the weaving ends and the fringe begins, or the end warp threads could be knotted and/or tasseled. I actually don't remember seeing any braided bands, but then I've only really looked at tabletwoven bands. If sewn to another textile, then the ends were turned under and the whole band sewn down. Nancy (Ingvild) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 07:25:27 +0930 From: "Melinda Shoop" To: Subject: Re: Inkle Weaving Greeting, good lady! I was browsing last night on the web and found a site which describes (and has a photo of) a pretty method of finishing ends of tablet and inkle weaving with small beads. the site is http://www.mtsu.edu.kgregg/SCA/cards/finish.html I hope this helps. Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:25:34 -0500 From: caroline at netusa1.net (mystarwin/Moira) To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Warp Dress for fine singles wool >One of the things that's obvious, to my eye, when looking at photographs >of migration era wool fabrics (usually a four-harness twill type woven >from singles), is the quality and evenness of the spinning. The person >who spun the wool consistently knew what the end result was going to be >and selected her wool accordingly for the cloth she had in mind. The >wool was then processed with a consistency I, as a fairly new spinner, >can at this point only envy. >ciorstan >(who has had to replace about twelve selvedge threads in her current >project due to shredding from the reed-- and will try the beeswax trick >suggested when she gets back to the loom tomorrow morning) The beeswax does work.... you may try taking some very fine (0000) steel wool to the reed, and then waxing it.... my reed needs replacing, it's too rusty to use right now... Moira Breabadair, MoAS Shire of Narrental Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:01:30 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine Harper To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Warp Dress for fine singles wool A bit ago I experimented with using flax seed lotion to shore up some hand spun singles that weren't quite holding up to the beating I was putting them through. It seemed to work fairly well. (No, I don't know if this is a period method -- I just had a lot of flax seeds on hand.) To produce flax seed lotion, put two tablespoons of flax seeds in a cup of water, and simmer until about the consistency of egg whites. You can apply it with a sponge -- or even spin it in. (I used to use it when spinning flax, mostly because it was a little easier on my hands.) It washes right out. Catherine Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 19:23:45 GMT From: mmy at fp.co.nz (Maggie.Mulvaney) To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Warp Dress for fine singles wool >A bit ago I experimented with using flax seed lotion to shore up some hand >spun singles that weren't quite holding up to the beating I was putting >them through. It seemed to work fairly well. (No, I don't know if this >is a period method -- I just had a lot of flax seeds on hand.) I've rattled on about this before; but when I translated the article about the Viborg shirt, the author speculated over the sheer mass of linseed found in scandinavian archaeological digs. She suggested (purely as an aside) that perhaps linseed oil was produced as much as linen - both for eating and other purposes. Since then I've experimented with weaving on the warp-weighted loom, and applying linseed oil to the weaving helped no end with the problem of the sticky shed. It also changed the hand of the fabric - even when washed. /mmy Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:52:34 -0800 From: Brett and Karen Williams To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Warp Dress for fine singles wool >>I made some tartan scarves last year with larger singles and ran into huge >>problems with that until I dressed it. They clung to each other, I couldn't >>get a good shed-worse than mohair. When I advanced the warp, they would grab >>each other and pull their neighbors through the wrong heddle eyes, and snapped >>all over the place, What a mess, had to start over. I'm wanting to avoid the >>same problems. You might also want to check your heddle positions in the shafts. If they are out of alignment (i.e., the eyes don't face a consistent direction in the same shaft) then they will tend to aggravate advancement of the warp by drag. I spent one evening going through 8 x 90 steel heddles (on rusty heddle bars, ick!), marking every tenth one with bright pink for easy counting, and making sure that every last blasted one was facing the same direction. I was thoroughly tired of having to count each shaft's heddles for centering every time I threaded-- now I only have one number to remember (90, eventually 100 heddles per shaft) and since they're consistently marked by tens, I can count 'em by pink flashes instead of one by one. ciorstan Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 18:52:09 -0700 From: Brett and Karen Williams To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Tablet Weaving to edge garments [SCA] Gwen Morse wrote: *snip* > I didn't realize what they meant at first, until I read through Candace > Crockett's book a second time. It mentions that tablet weaving was used to > attach the warp threads for some sort of weaving technique (not a weaver, > and don't have the book in front of me...maybe warp-weighted looms?). Yes. A common way to prepare a warp for a warp-weighted loom was to execute a tablet-woven band with either an extended fringe on one side, which, voila, magically turned into warp when 'stitched' to the cloth beam of a w-w loom, or interlock a supplementary warp into one side of the band's weft as one wove the header/tablet-woven band. If you can get a hand on Marta Hoffman's "Warp Weighted Loom", there are pictures scattered throughout of the Tegle Find, which, amongst other things, shows a tablet-woven warp prepared in this fashion. The Tegle warp find apparently was deposited exactly at the point where the weaver's next step would have been to attach the band to the top of the loom. The warp has been divided into two sheds by that favorite weaver's knot-to-hold-tangled-messes, the overhand. > I was considering how to add fringes to tablet woven bands when I > "realized" how this would be done. What I'm curious about is this... > > What was the purpose of going to all the trouble of weaving a tablet-woven > band just to use it to weave a whole length of cloth? Were these bands > woven simply (simple = without ornamentation) in order to get on with the > weaving, or, would they be decorated in their own right? Was this a > "weakness" of this specific type of loom...that it needed a guide for the > warp threads to be strung through? All of your purposes, except for decorative function-- and that could be done, too, on very high-end luxury cloths (if memory serves, NESAT II discusses a decorated band that was stitched onto a cloth post-weaving). > If bands of cloth were narrower than they are today, does that mean that > the tablet weaving would end up a vertical line somewhere on the garment? I > assumed even if if was used as edging it would be turned sideways. But, > people keep mentioning the smaller widths of woven fabric. Or, was this the > type of loom that allowed wider widths? The tablet-woven header band would be one selvedge; one could also carry a pack of cards down either side of one's warp-weighted weaving project to make firm, long-wearing selveges down the sides of one's cloth, and then finish the bottom edge by tablet-weaving across, using the cloth's warp as tablet-woven weft, and fringing off the short ends of the warp/tablet weft at the very end. Thorsberg Prachtmantel I was made this way. If I were attempting this on a warp-weighted loom, I'd have each shed on its own separate weights, and the decks of cards on either side on their own weights, too. > Would they be woven out of the same "thread" the cloth was woven out of > (would linen bands be the warp guide for linen cloth and wool bands the > warp guide for wool cloth)? I think it's safe to say 'yes'. > I *still* don't have access to "Ancient Danish Textiles" (which apparently > has a whole chapter dedicated to this sort of info), although the > librarians assure me they put the ILL request through properly this time. > So, any information would be appreciated in the meantime! I got Cal State Fullerton's copy of Hald from my local library via ILL day before yesterday. ;) I read it Saturday night for dessert, and I'm back for snacking already. > This is really more of a generic weaving than tablet-weaving set of > question, which is why I ask here instead of on CARDS-L. Oh, yes, and I > realize there's the whole "No extant examples of clothing from 5th century > Ireland". I'm speaking more in generalities right now, of when tablet > weaving would be an integral part of the weaving process. I'm sure it's the > same the world over, once people understand what I'm trying to ask (unless, > of course, it ISN'T the same, which is just as possible). > > Gwen Morse Well, that I'll leave up to you and your level of comfort/discomfort when faced with an absence of concrete evidence either way. ;) Using tablet-woven header bands was pretty much SOP for warp-weighted loom dressing, and even the two ladies who dressed a warp-weighted loom and wove a blanket for the benefit of Marta Hoffman in the (um) fifties (from knowledge passed down in generations of their family) used a header band made with a rigid heddle. I can assert with some confidence that starting off a warp-weighted loom textile with some type of narrow band and extended fringe that turned into warp is a technique used for a Very Long Time all across northern Europe. I do not know when tablet-woven header bands turned into heddle-woven bands, though, and early period textiles are, to my knowledge, made universally with tablet-woven headers rather than rigid-heddle (tabby) headers. There's even an example of a sprang cap made with a tablet-woven band with a weft fringe that turned into the sprang body of the cap (Crockett has a reproduction of one towards the back of the book; check out Barber's "Prehistoric Textiles" for the actual find, plus Hald, once you lay hands on it). And, there's a theory out there that the neat looking longish cap thingies with, sometimes a tassel, shown so commonly on women's heads on Greek vases are really sprang. ciorstan Subject: Re: Card Weaving Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 10:24:45 EST From: SNSpies at aol.com To: stefan at texas.net Hello, Stefan. << Could you send me the list again by email? >> Certainly. It would be my pleasure. Actually, I had found one error, so this will be a corrected list. Your Florilegium site is a goldmine of wonderful stuff, by the way. I hope that others will enjoy this list of suppliers as much as our tablet weavers have. Sometimes it's really difficult to find good sources for fine silks or appropriate metallic threads when all you know about is JoAnns, so I am very pleased to be able to help. Thanks for asking! Ingvild --------------------------------------------------------------------- SUGGESTED LIST OF SUPPLIERS 1. Aurora Silk, 5806 North Vancouver Avenue, Portland, OR 97217 (503) 286-4149 - silk threads 2. Beggar's Lace, P.O. Box 481223, Denver, CO 80248 (303) 722-5557 lacelady at rmii.com - silk, linen, cotton threads 3. Bob Patterson, P.O. Box 424, Orinda, CA 94563 (925) 943-5243 - silk, linen, and cotton threads 4. Books in Transit, 2830 Case Way, Turlock, CA 95382 (209) 632-6984 - out-of-print books 5. Carolina Homespun, 190 Eastridge Rd., Ridgeway, VA 24148 (800) 450-7786 homespun at kimbanet.com - tablets, shuttles, belt tablet-weaving holder, looms, warping pegs, books 6. Daisy Chain, P.O. Box 1258, Parkersburg, WV 26102 (304) 428-9500 - silk, metallic, real gold and silver threads 7. Earth Guild, 33 Haywood Street, Asheville, NC 28801 (800) 327-8448 inform at earthguild.com or catalog.earthguild.com - square cardboard tablets, belt shuttles, books, linen, cotton, and wool threads 8. Fiber Hut, 2316 Crestwood Rd., SE, Calgary, Alberta T2C 0C6 Canada (403) 279-2658 - square cardboard tablets, books, silk, linen, cotton, and wool threads 9. Fibrecrafts, Style Cottage, Lower Eashing, Godalming, Surrey GU7 2QD England (48) 342-1853) - square cardboard tablets, warping pegs with clamps, shuttles, books 10. Halcyon Yarns, 12 School Street, Bath, ME 04530 (800) 341-0282 - square cardboard tablets, warping pegs, books, silk, linen, cotton, wool, and metallic threads 11. Handweavers Studio and Gallery, 29 Haroldstone Road, London E17 7AN England (81) 521-2281 - square and hexagonal cardboard tablets, warping pegs with clamps, shuttles, silk, linen, cotton, wool, and metallic threads 12. Hedgehog Handworks, P.O. Box 45384, Westchester, CA 90045 (888) 670-6040 - silk, linen, cotton, metallic threads 13. Linda Hendrickson, 140 SE 39th Avenue, Portland, OR 97214 (503) 239-5016 lindahendrickson at cnnw.net - square cardboard tablets, shuttles, kits, books, video 14. Heritage Looms, Route 6, Box 731-E, Alvin, TX 77511 (409) 925-4161 - tabletop looms, square cardboard tablets 15. Frank Herring & Sons, 27 High West Street, Dorchester, Dorset DT1 1UP England (30) 524-4449 - square plastic tablets, warping pegs with clamps, shuttles 16. Howell's Weaving Emporium, 4832 Salmon Drive, Paradise, CA 95969 (503) 877-4539 - tabletop looms, shuttles 17. Klotz Country Crafts, 908 E. Eloika Rd., Deer Park, WA 99006 (888) 447-7675 - card weaver's surf-board loom 18 LACIS, 3163 Adeline Street, Berkeley, CA 94703 (510) 843-7178 staff at lacis.com - silk, linen, cotton, and metallic threads, including Gütermann silks and color card 19 Louët, P.O. Box 267, Ogdensburg, NY 13669 (613) 925-4502 - square wooden tablets 20. Laura Morgan, 1633 Stoney Creek Drive, Charlottesville, VA 22902 (804) 984-0537 - handmade wooden tablets 21. Needle Arts, Inc., 2211 Monroe, Dearborn, MI 48124 (313) 278-6266 - silk, linen, cotton, metallic, real gold threads 22. Nordic Needle, 1314 Gateway Drive, Fargo, ND 58103 (800) 433-4321 needle at corpcomm.com - silk, cotton, and metallic threads 23. Bob Patterson, P.O. Box 424, Orinda, CA 94563 (925) 943-5243 Bob at threadshop.com, www.threadshop.com - silk, linen, cotton threads 24. Robin and Russ Handweavers, 533 North Adams Street, McMinnville, OR 97128 (800) 932-8391 robin&russ at onlinemac.com - square and hexagonal cardboard tablets. shuttles, books, videos 25. The Silk Tree, 20297 Stanton Ave., Maple Ridge, BC V2X 9A5 Canada (604)465-9816 aurum at axionet.com - silk threads 26. Otfried Staudigel, Höppnerstrasse 108, D - 47809 Krefeld, Germany - floor-standing looms 27. Textile Reproductions, Box 48, West Chesterfield, MA 01084 (413) 296-4437 - silk, linen, cotton, and wool threads (early vegetable dyes used) 28. Things Japanese, 9805 NE 116th Street, Suite 7160, Kirkland, WA 98034 (206) 821-2287 - silk and metallic threads 29. Treenway Crafts, 725 Caledonia Avenue, Victoria, BC V8T 1E4 Canada (604) 383-1661 treenway at coastnet.com - silk threads 30. Unicorn Books and Crafts, 1338 Ross Street, Petaluma, CA 94954 (800) 289-9276 - square cardboard tablets, belt shuttles, belt tablet weaving holder, books, videos 31. The Weaving Works, 4717 Brooklyn Ave., NE, Seattle, WA 98105 (206) 524-1221 - square cardboard tablets, shuttles, warping pegs, belt tablet weaving holder, books, videos 32. WEBS, P.O. Box 147, Northampton, MA 01061-0147 (413) 584-2225 webs at yarn.com - silk threads 33. Yarn Barn, P.O. Box 334, Lawrence, KS 66044 (800) 468-0035 - square cardboard tablets, shuttles, warping pegs, books Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 07:23:55 -0400 From: Honour Horne-Jaruk Organization: Maison Rive Historic Clothing To: Lissa McCollum Subject: Re: a question for the weavers Lissa McCollum wrote: > I have a question for the weavers in the group... > > I found a Pendleton 4 heddle 40" floor loom at a > garage sale today, that seems to be in quite good > shape. For $20 (don't hurt me) I wasn't going to > pass it up, even though I know next to nothing > (yet) about weaving. > > So...what are some good basic introduction to > weaving texts? And what are some good historical > research books on weaving to keep my eyes out for? > Are there any web sites I should know about? > > Gwendolen Wold Respected friend: Get a copy of _Warping all by Yourself_, by Cay Garrett. ISBN 0-930670-01-9, it's available from Interweave Press. I have no idea if the technique is period, but it really does make it possible for you to put a smooth, even-tensioned warp on the loom all alone. -- Honour Horne-Jaruk Maison Rive Historic Clothing Subject: ANST - Weavers Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 13:48:11 MST From: "Russell Husted" To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org Here is an absolutely wonderful site on beduin weaving. http://www.beduinweaving.com/toc.htm mahee Edited by Mark S. Harris weaving-msg Page 3 of 31