knitting-msg – 5/24/13

Period knitting. Needles. Book Reviews.

NOTE: See also the files: lace-msg, hose-msg, spinning-msg, hose-manu-MA-art, sprang-msg, p-knitting-bib, naalbinding-msg, macrame-msg.

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                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: dafyd at scribe.equinox.gen.nz (Dafyd the Scribe)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Medieval Knitting
Date: Sat, 07 May 94 00:48:46 GMT

Thanks to Luigsech ni Ifearnain (of Calontir) and to Edmund
Tregelles (of the Middle), who answered my original post, which was seeking
others interested in period knitting.

Sorry if my other message caused confusion.  I am Linnet of Liddington, who is
borrowing the technology of Dafyd the Scribe.
Also, I am posting to Rialto, as for us this is FREE.  Sending private e-mail
is rather expensive for us.  Sorry.  Hope this will work for you if I reply
this way.

Like you, Luigsech, I learnt to knit at an early age, so I have over twenty
years experience as a knitter.  However, I am having to learn the skill of
creating my own patterns, instead of merely following a printed one.

Where to start on medieval knitting...  Firstly, I guess, needles.  There are no
surviving needles that I know of (or have read about).  However, there a number
of period illustrations showing people knitting (most often the Virgin).  My
assumption is that needles were made out of either metal or wood, or, possibly,
bone.  I feel our modern steel needles are acceptable for knitting with at
evets.  (Plastic, however, I do not).  For most items, a set of double-ended
needles is the norm.  I prefer to use a set of five.  Four to hold the stitches,
the fifth to knit with.  This creates a nice little box, and means that the
fabric isn't pulled or stretched whilst knitting.  I have been asked whether it
just wouldn't be easier to use a circular needle (you know, one of those horrid
things with two ends and a plastic wire in-between.)  My answer is that (a) if
I am going to spend time on knitting something I want to do it as authentically
as possible, (b) I could not justify using that method if I was at an event, and
(c) I have never succesfully managed to use one of the things, anyway.  Simply
put, I think using a set of needles is far the easiest method.

About yarns used.  Yes, woold was often used.  But silk and cotton were also
often used.  Some items were a mixture of wool and silk.  (Haven't yet heard of
a combination of cotton and another fibre).  My guess is that the material used
is a reflection of (a) the wealth of the person the article is for, and (b) the
purpose for which it is intended.

ON my original post, I mentioned a book which, so far I have found to have the
most concentrated collection of usable information and pictures.  That was A
HISTORY OF HANDKNITTING, by Richard Rutt, Bishop of Leicester, BT Batsford Ltd,
London, 1987.  Another interesting article appears in PASOLD STUDIES IN TEXTILE
HISTORY 2 - CLOTH AND CLOTHING IN MEDIEVAL EUROPE, Essays in memory of Professor
E M Carus-Wilson, Edited by N B Harte, and K G Ponting, Heinemann Educational
Books, Pasold Research Fund Ltd, 1983.  The Essay of interest to knitters is
no. 19, THE DIFFUSION OF KNITTING IN MEDIEVAL EUROPE, by Irena Turnau.  Rutt
mentions her as being an authority in the field of knitting.

Edmund, being a typical fluffy arts person, I typically have 793 different
projects on hand at once.  At the moment I am spread too thin to be able to
research any more projects than those currently on hand.  However, I am very
interested in period dyes.  One of these days I would like to shear the sheep,
spin and dye my own yarn, then knit the finished article.  Sigh.  If I only I
could give up the day job.  Did you know that the unicorn tapestries were
created using the dyes obtained from only three plants?  Wow.  From Rutt and
other sources I can see that all sorts of colours of yarns were available (and
that socks came in more than just your basic black).  My Finsbury flat cap is
knitted in a natural, undyed brown sheeps wool.  My pouch in a red and a yellow
yarn.

Anyway, some questions for you both (and anyone else reading this).  You may
very well have access to different sources to me.  I would like to gain more
information on knitted tapestries.  How they were made, any surviving examples,
and so on.  I haven't yet found any mention of surviving examples, the earliest
being something around 1781.

Also, our yarns are classified as 2 ply, 3 ply, 4 ply, and so on, some having
names such as triple knit (12 ply), double knit (8 ply), and so on.  I would
like to know what your equivalents are.

Anyway, this is quite long enough for now.  I'll let someone else get a word
in edgewise.  For now, anyway.

Regards, Linnet
      +==============================+===============================+
      |            Dafyd the Scribe  |  dafyd at scribe.equinox.gen.nz  |
      |            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  |  dafyd.scribe at mcbbs.gen.nz    |
      |     Illuminations Unlimited  |  Fidonet:   3:770/140.4       |
      |   Christchurch, New Zealand  |  Telephone: 64-3-355-4082     |
      +------------------------------+-------------------------------+


From: sjgg6239 at uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Susan J. Grant)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Medieval Knitting
Date: 9 May 1994 17:57:07 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

dafyd at scribe.equinox.gen.nz (Dafyd the Scribe) writes:

>Where to start on medieval knitting..  Firstly, I guess, needles.  There are no
>surviving needles that I know of (or have read about).  However, there a number
>of period illustrations showing people knitting (most often the Virgin).  My
>assumption is that needles were made out of either metal or wood, or, possibly,
>bone.  I feel our modern steel needles are acceptable for knitting with at
>evets.  (Plastic, however, I do not).

I use wood knitting needles, made out of black walnut. One local knitting
store sells them. Also, I have found them in at least two catalogs, one
is for Rev. War re-enactors. I expect you could find them in ads in
the knitting magazines (I subscribe to Spin-Off).

>About yarns used.  Yes, woold was often used.  But silk and cotton were also
>often used.  Some items were a mixture of wool and silk.  (Haven't yet heard of
>a combination of cotton and another fibre).  My guess is that the material used
>is a reflection of (a) the wealth of the person the article is for, and (b) the
>purpose for which it is intended.

Wool comes in MANY different breeds, and there is great variation in
fineness/softness/other criteria within each breed. I certainly expect
that our ancients, who had whole lifetimes of experience, would select
the breed with the properties they desired in the finished process and
spin to order -- woolens, worsted, thickness, twists per inch, and so on.
Silk and cotton, other vegetable fibers, and different wools can be blended
during carding to further vary the yarns and their properties. I would be
surprised if pure cotton were knitted -- it has no elasticity and GROWS
vertically like no one's business. Blending with a little wool would
eliminate this enormously -- and if the carding is by hand anyway (up
with child labor! ;-)) it's no extra work. Silk also is much more
manageable if blended with other fibers. Linen is the only fiber that
I have not heard of being blended -- probably because the fiber length
is so long that it is tough to find wools with similar length (very important)
and desireable properties.

One thing I have learned in just a few short years of spinning and
playing with fiber and researching historical patterns is that
modern fabrics are incredibly simple and boring -- and they have
none of the strengths/wearability or climate adaptations of the
cloth/fiber products found commonly throughout history.

>  One of these days I would like to shear the sheep,
>spin and dye my own yarn, then knit the finished article.

An admirable goal. I would suggest leaving shearing to the experts --
it's fewer cuts for the sheep. But whole fleeces directly off the sheep
are really readily available, especially in New Zealand! I have to order
and pay shipping half way around the world for that quality of fleece!

> Did you know that the unicorn tapestries were
>created using the dyes obtained from only three plants?  Wow. 

Unsurprising but very cool. They knew their dyes and mordants!

>From Rutt and
>other sources I can see that all sorts of colours of yarns were available (and
>that socks came in more than just your basic black).

Yes, sheep come in many shades, from white through all the greys to black,
all the browns with shades in red and orange availble, all natural without
dyes yet!

>Also, our yarns are classified as 2 ply, 3 ply, 4 ply, and so on, some having
>names such as triple knit (12 ply), double knit (8 ply), and so on.  I would
>like to know what your equivalents are.

I don't know yet -- I knit my own handspun. I know if you look hard you
can find yarns other than the three-ply that is so common. But within the
three-ply you can get various weights, such as sport-weight, light-weight(?)
and others. I don't know much more.

One question I have -- what are good sources for reading about knitting
in period, especially before the 1550's? Common knowledge here in my
region has it that knitting is just barely period, though some who
have done some reading here say that knitting goes back to before
1000. Any words?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+       Susan Grant                               sjgg6239 at uxa.cso.uiuc.edu +
+	University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign                            +
+       Alwynne of Rivenstar, Middle Kingdom                                +


From: sapalmer at magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Sharon A Palmer)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Medieval Knitting
Date: 10 May 1994 03:39:27 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University

In article <2qlthj$b0l at vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>,
Susan J. Grant <sjgg6239 at uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> wrote:

>Wool comes in MANY different breeds, and there is great variation in
....
>An admirable goal. I would suggest leaving shearing to the experts --
>it's fewer cuts for the sheep. But whole fleeces directly off the sheep
>are really readily available, especially in New Zealand! I have to order
>and pay shipping half way around the world for that quality of fleece!

Gwennis and I stopped at Midwest wool Growers today and two fleeces followed
us home.  Honest we were just going to look around!  Really!

An Austalian Merino (maybe a cross) 5" long for $4 per pound. Curly tips
so maybe a first cut.  Beorthwine, I will save you some in the grease!
Where shall I send it?   (The tips of Merino are _glued_ with
sheep by-product.)

I got a dark brown med-fine fleece for $2 per pound.
(although it isn't nearly so dark now that I've washed it.)

>One question I have -- what are good sources for reading about knitting
>in period, especially before the 1550's? Common knowledge here in my
>region has it that knitting is just barely period, though some who
>have done some reading here say that knitting goes back to before
>1000. Any words?

  _History of Knitting_ by Rutt.  (from memory)  shows pictures of knitted
socks from Eqypt circa 1000, it became known in England circa 1500,
and Italy inbetween.

_98 Pattern Books_ by Paludan & Egeberg  "An interesting guide to the location 
and condition of 98 original 16th century pattern books for lace, embroidery 
and knitting"  $30.00   I havent seen this one yet, but it sounds good
Anyone seen this yet?

(Sorry for errors, my editor is flakey today.)
Ranvaig


From: sapalmer at magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Sharon A Palmer)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: crochet was Re: COSTUMING:
Date: 22 Oct 1994 01:27:20 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University

In article <383r9i$8r at ankh.iia.org>, Leah Jolovich <jolovicl at iia.org> wrote:
>
>I would like to know if crocheted tights would be appropriate (given that
>I don't have access to a knitting machine and consistency is not a term
>to be used for my hand knitting). Does anyone have any comments on this?

Crochet is said to be much later than our period.  Check Rudd's _History
of Knitting_  for a date.  I think that crocheted tights would give a 
_very_ different look.  Crochet is more textured than knitting.

Ranvaig


From: sapalmer at magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Sharon A Palmer)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: crochet was Re: COSTUMING:
Date: 29 Oct 1994 14:40:39 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University

In article <38egud$913 at ankh.iia.org>, Leah Jolovich <jolovicl at iia.org> wrote:
>No intention of flaming or anything here, but even though I cannot knit
>well, I do know a little about it (my mother was superb at hand knitting).
>I don't think it is quite accurate to say crochet is more textured than
>knitting.....would that be plain knit (knit or pearl side), ribbed knit,
>cable knit, seed knit, double knit, etc? Much of the texture of crafts
>such as knitting, crochet, and even macreme comes from the particular
>'pattern' you use, and technique, and type of knot (apply these as
>appropriate to the stated crafts). I feel that the most accurate way to
>interpret this is as a 'caution' sign with reference to generalizations.

No flame taken.  I am getting out of my depth on this.  Anyone else
feel free to correct me.  The purl stitch is late and (I think) OOP
The period pieces I can recall were plain stockinette, sometimes
with colored patterns.  I think Elanour of Toledo had knitted lace
stockings.  All of this is from memory from Rutt's _History of Knitting_.
(I _have_ to get a copy of this for myself.  I _hate_ having my
reference books at the library.)

Modern kntting can be textured, but period knitting (at least mostly)
was not.

Ranvaig


From: jolovicl at iia.org (Leah Jolovich)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: crochet was Re: COSTUMING:
Date: 30 Oct 1994 21:57:25 GMT
Organization: International Internet Association.

: No flame taken.  I am getting out of my depth on this.  Anyone else
: feel free to correct me.  The purl stitch is late and (I think) OOP
: The period pieces I can recall were plain stockinette, sometimes
: with colored patterns.  I think Elanour of Toledo had knitted lace
: stockings.  All of this is from memory from Rutt's _History of Knitting_.
: (I _have_ to get a copy of this for myself.  I _hate_ having my
: reference books at the library.)

Sorry, but this has to be said......I don't think that the purl stitch is 
OOP. Why? Because it is the back side of the knit stitch. Simply you 
can't do a knit without making the purl on the back and vice versa. Also 
you can't make a piece of material without (this is for handknitting) 
knitting one way, and then purling the other. All the others mentioned 
are just combinations of knits and purls. 

Hmm...then again, maybe you could do it all knit, if you have someone who 
can knit both right and left, and wouldn't have to turn the material 
around. I have not met anyone that could yet.

: Modern kntting can be textured, but period knitting (at least mostly)
: was not.

: Ranvaig

Just my 2 pence.

Hawke



From: ilaine at panix.com (Liz Stokes)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: crochet was Re: COSTUMING:
Date: 30 Oct 1994 17:53:40 -0500

"But Liz, the toads are so, so, _hairy_..." "	I know, I like hair.
 Just get to the quote from jolovicl at iia.org (Leah Jolovich), ok?"
>: No flame taken.  I am getting out of my depth on this.  Anyone else
>: feel free to correct me.  The purl stitch is late and (I think) OOP
>: The period pieces I can recall were plain stockinette, sometimes
>: with colored patterns.  I think Elanour of Toledo had knitted lace
>: stockings.  All of this is from memory from Rutt's _History of Knitting_.
>: (I _have_ to get a copy of this for myself.  I _hate_ having my
>: reference books at the library.)
>
>Sorry, but this has to be said......I don't think that the purl stitch is 
>OOP. Why? Because it is the back side of the knit stitch. Simply you 
>can't do a knit without making the purl on the back and vice versa. Also 
>you can't make a piece of material without (this is for handknitting) 
>knitting one way, and then purling the other. All the others mentioned 
>are just combinations of knits and purls. 
>
>Hmm...then again, maybe you could do it all knit, if you have someone who 
>can knit both right and left, and wouldn't have to turn the material 
>around. I have not met anyone that could yet.

	er, period stockings were knitted in the round on double pointed
needles. No need for purling. From Rutt, p. 23:  "Surviving artefacts
suggest that tubular stockinet was the first form of knitting and that the
purl stitch was a later invention. The earliest verifiable purle stitches
are on the stockings of Eleanora of Toledo, 1562 or earlier. There is good
reason to suppose that purling had been used in turning the heels of
stockings earlier than this, but no clear evidence. From the mid-16th
century onwards the purl was used as a decorative stitch - as, indeed, it's
name, often spelt 'pearl', suggests".  Apparently many flat pieces of medieval
knitting can be shown to have been made in the round and cut.

-Ilaine
-- 
Liz Stokes         | 		Hey! Where am I going? 
Ilaine de Cameron  | 
                   |    And what am I doing in this handbasket?	
ilaine at panix.com   | 


From: vinwaluf2 at aol.com (VINWALUF2)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: knitting/commentary wanted
Date: 13 Apr 1995 12:09:06 -0400

Oh, yes, knitting is definitely period. This happens to be my favorite
craft and, thus, an important research project.  I happen to be at work at
the moment, and can't easily reach my folders of pertinent photocopies...
However, you may want to track down Richard Rutt's _A History of
Handknitting_ for an excellent introduction to the subject.  Also look in
the serial "Textile History" if you can find it; they regularly run
articles on the subject.  So does "Thread" and "Pieceworks", tho they
aren't quite as scholarly in their treatment.  Look for anything you can
find (articles, etc.) by Irena Turnau, a widely recognized expert on the
subject.

As far as the earliest dates it was known, I've seen a number of 'knitting
Madonnas' (that is, paintings depicting Mary knitting) dating from the
late 14th century.  I'm also reading a book just now _Textiles and
Clothing:c1150-c1350_ by E. Crowfoot et al, which is based on
archeological digs done in London.  A number of knitting pieces (and I do
mean pieces) have been recovered in these digs, most of them dating to the
14th century.

Hope this is of some help.  If there is further interest, I can post more
extensively at a later date.

Gwennan ferch Gwydion O'Ddyved
Barony of AnCrosaire; Kingdom of Trimaris


From: kellogg at ucssun1.sdsu.edu (C. Kevin Kellogg)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: knitting/commentary wanted
Date: 17 Apr 1995 17:20:02 GMT
Organization: San Diego State University Computing Services

mairgret.carrigart at asb.com wrote:
: Hi I've been looking into the subject for some time and have found no written
: sources as yet for really early knitting. However you must consider this. The
: knitting that hit the high society usage ie fancy hose and finely worked gloves

	I don't know about written sources, but how about physical ones?
In purusing _The World of the Vikings_ cd rom yesterday, several garments are
shown trimed with material that the notes say is knitted.  As this seems to
be a very scholarly work (put out jointly by the York Archeaological trust
and the National Museum of Denmark),  this may be a good source.  The text
seems capable of differentiating between card-woven, woven, and knitted
material.  For more info on the CD rom, look at < URL:  http://www.demon
co.uk/history/vikings/vikhome.html >.

		Avenel Kellough


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: lhorvath at badlands.NoDak.edu (Lorine S Horvath)
Subject: Re: knitting/commentary wanted
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 02:31:15 GMT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

In doing some recent research on card weaving incorporated with other 
methods of weaving in the celtic and viking cultures, I came across a 
technique called sprang.  I have known about sprang for quite a while, 
what i didn't know however is that most of the textiles that are assumed 
to be knitted from early period are actually sprang. Sprang is a way of 
finger weaving that resembles knitting so closely that most museums get 
confused.  For more info see The Techniques of Sprang, by Peter 
Collingwood.  C Craig and L Horvath


From: priest at vaxsar.vassar.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: knitting/commentary wanted
Date: 22 Apr 95 20:15:41 +1000
Organization: Vassar College

Greeting from Thora Sharptooth!

About possible misidentification of knitting on Viking garments, C Craig and L
Horvath (lhorvath at badlands.NoDak.edu) wrote:

> most of the textiles that are assumed 
> to be knitted from early period are actually sprang. 

Uh, no, they're actually nalebinding, as I think someone else has already
pointed out.

> Sprang is a way of 
> finger weaving that resembles knitting so closely that most museums get 
> confused.  

This is an overstatement.  There are three major groups of techniques for
creating sprang, and only one of them even superficially resembles knitting. 
(The other two resemble bobbin lace and tabby weaving.)  Historically, tablet
weaving has been much more likely to be misidentified as knitting than sprang
has been.  

> For more info see The Techniques of Sprang, by Peter 
> Collingwood.  

Excellent advice.
****************************************************************************
Carolyn Priest-Dorman			Thora Sharptooth
Poughkeepsie, NY			Frosted Hills ("where's that?")
priest at vassar.edu			East Kingdom
            Gules, three square weaver's tablets in bend Or
****************************************************************************


From: kathy.duffy at buckys.com (Kathy Duffy)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: knitting/commentary w
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 14:19:00 GMT

Try looking in the Museum of London -- of course most of these museums
do move exhibit items regularly. I know I saw a small piece of knitted
clothing (hosen?) but it's been 4 years since I trod the streets of
London.  There was a guild for it also during Tudor times so there must
be some records/guild accounts etc.

Lady Deirdre Ui Mhaille
EK, Shire of Barren Sands
kathy.duffy at buckys.com


From: Carole_Newson-Smith.RWC#u#MC#u#TWO at mac2.NET.COM (Carole Newson-Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Knitting
Date: 25 Apr 1995 21:07:33 -0400

                                       Knitting

Several have posted recently on whether knitting is period, and the opinions 
expressed vary from "no, it's too late" to "they did knitting as far back as
Egypt."

My source is _A History of Hand Knitting_ by Richard Rutt, published in 1987
by Interweave Press  in Loveland, Colorado. (800-645-3675)  It's still in print
and has a little information about sprang as well.

The actual quotation is from an article by Rutt in _Piecework Magazine_, the 
March/April  1993 issue, which article contains three color reproductions of 
14th century madonnas knitting in the round on double pointed needles.

"The brothers Lorenzetti painted in Siena, Italy.  Ambrogio Lorenzetti, active
from about 1319 to 1347 [is] thought to have died in the Black Death, which
ravaged Siena in 1348.  The knitting madonna now in the Abegg Collection 
at Berne was probably painted at the very end of Ambrogio's life.
....
"Saint Joseph sits at the right-hand side looking at Mary and at the little boy
 Jesus, who sits with one hand on his mother's arm. She is knitting in the
round with four needles but it is impossible to see what she is making.
...
"The evidence must not be overinterpreted.  It shows that knitting was known in
 northern Italy before 1350, and that the Lorenzetti brothers knew how knitting
was done.  It suggests that knitting was done at home by women, but does not tell us whether it was an occupation for ladies of leisure or a common pursuit, whether it was cheap or expensive."

Later in the article Rutt goes on to describe a German knitting madonna,
probably before 1400, who is apparently using two yarns at once.

The article does not specifically say this is the earliest evidence we have of
knitting, but the pictures clearly indicate to this knitter's eyes that the
madonna is making a small garment  that would fit the child Jesus.

Cordelia Toser
Southern Shores, Mists, West Kingdom


From: Carole_Newson-Smith.RWC#u#MC#u#TWO at mac2.NET.COM (Carole Newson-Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Knitting Frames
Date: 25 Apr 1995 21:27:31 -0400
Organization: The Internet

                                       Knitting Frames

Hello, it's Cordelia Toser again, quoting from one of her
favorite tertiary sources, Piecework Magazine.


In the May/June 1995 issue which I got in the mail this week,
on page 14 there is a question and answer about knitting boards
or frames.  The photographs show two long narrow boards which
are fastened together with pins at the ends, and spacers controlling
the width of the space between the boards.  There are a series of 
pegs or nails on the upper surfaces of both boards that you can
wind the yarn onto.

Kind of a rectangular 'knitting nancy" if you will.

Anyhow, according to Mary Thomas's _Knitting Book_ published 
by Dover in 1972, the knitting frame has also been called a rake,
ring, box, bung, spool, reel and French knitting.  

In Richard Rutt's _A History of Hand Knitting_, the author states
that the clearest evidence for early peg-frame knitting is in Gustav
Schmoller's _Die Strassburger Tucher-und Weberzunft_ (1879).
Schmoller's book  (?) is an account of textile guilds in Strassburg.
The knitting frame existed as early as 1535 if we are to believe
Schmoller, who also discusses regulations drafted in 1618 about 
the number of knitting frames allowed in a master knitter'swrorkshop.

Since I don't read German, I'll not question this source any further.
But you may, if it pleases you.  :-p

Cordelia Toser
Southern Shores, Mists, West Kingdom


From: vinwaluf2 at aol.com (VINWALUF2)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: knitting (was:and buttons (was nits)) Phew!
Date: 10 Jan 1996 09:47:20 -0500

(Oh, nooooo. They've hit my 'medieval knitting question' button.  Anybody
who isn't interested in the subject, hit 'Delete' _now_!)

As medieval knitting is one of my pet subjects, let me interject that
knitted fabrics can easily be documented from the 14th century onward
(there are a number of 'Knitting Madonnas' - paintings- from this era) 
Knitted stockings are commonly found in medieval gravesites; Queen
Elizabeth reportedly was quite fond of her _silk_ knitted hose. As far as
outerwear is concerned, knitted caps were very common; a number of them
can be seen in any documentation of the 'Mary Rose' ship excavation.

Actually, there is some evidence that knitted fabric goes back a _lot_
further...I've seen photos of Coptic stockings that appear to be knitted
(6th century A.D.), but there's some doubt as to how they were actually
produced (could have been nalbinding or some other technique).

For a good overall review of the subject, I recommend _A History of
Hand-knitting_ by Richard Rutt.  If anyone's interested in more detail,
please contact me privately and I'll dig out my bibliographies for you.

In service
Gwennan ferch Gwydion O'Ddyved
AnCrosaire, Trimaris
(posting on my employer's account; I can be reached directly at
MSD at vetmed3.vetmed.ufl.edu)


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: shafer at ferhino.dfrc.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer)
Subject: Re: knitting (was:and buttons (was nits)) Phew!
Organization: NASA Dryden Flight Research Center, Edwards CA
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 22:00:43 GMT

On 10 Jan 1996 09:47:20 -0500, vinwaluf2 at aol.com (VINWALUF2) said:

GfGOD> As medieval knitting is one of my pet subjects, let me
GfGOD> interject that knitted fabrics can easily be documented from
GfGOD> the 14th century onward (there are a number of 'Knitting
GfGOD> Madonnas' - paintings- from this era) Knitted stockings are
GfGOD> commonly found in medieval gravesites; Queen Elizabeth
GfGOD> reportedly was quite fond of her _silk_ knitted hose. 

Even today the Monarch of Great Britain selects the names of people to
receive titles, etc, on the two yearly Honours Lists by piercing the
list beside the selected names with a knitting needle; this tradition
started when a bureaucrat brought the list to Elizabeth I as she sat
in the garden knitting.  She had no pen and marked the list with her
knitting needle.

Unfortunately, the article in which I read this did not record what
she was knitting when interrupted.  I've always assumed stockings, but
that's because I've read other references to her knitting stocking
(mostly while she was still a princess, when her sister, Mary,
reigned). 
--
Mary Shafer               NASA Dryden Flight Research Center, Edwards, CA
SR-71 Flying Qualities Lead Engineer     Of course I don't speak for NASA 
shafer at ferhino.dfrc.nasa.gov                               DoD #362 KotFR   
URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html


From: parkerd at mcmail.cis.McMaster.CA (Diana Parker)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Knitting
Date: 20 Mar 1996 01:24:17 -0500
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada.

In article <4i6s4o$pna at azure.acsu.buffalo.edu>,
Catherine K Reimers <reimers at acsu.buffalo.edu> wrote:
>I am interested in hearing from anyone who is knitting in the SCA or has 
>done research on period knitting.  

Hello Roswitha
	I've just been lent "Textile History" Vol 7, 1976 (published by
The Pasold Research Fund Ltd - ISSN 0040-4969).  The knitting article in
this issue is titled "Knitted Masterpieces" and details (including
photographs) knitted wall hangings and carpets from the upper Rhineland
area.  The authors have tracked down 52 examples dated from 1602 to 1781,
9 of which are dated pre 1650. 
	I've seen less detailed paintings, so the pictures are kind of 
daunting, and of course there's no patterns given.  But it does give 
pause for thought.
	On a more generic note, Janet Arnold's "Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe
Unlocked" makes reference to knitted stockings, knitted gloves, knitted
silk jacke, knitting needles, mantles of knitwork and a knitwork forepart
of a dress.  I'm involved in an on-going argument with Aralyn as to
whether this is knitting or sprang though.  The wall hangings mentiond 
above are pretty definitely stocking stitch.

cheers
Tabitha 
----------------------------------------------
Diana Parker   		parkerd at mcmaster.ca
Security Services	CUC - 201	
McMaster University	(905) 525-9140 (x24282) 


From: eanderso at acs.ucalgary.ca (Elizabeth A. Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Cotehardie fastenings, but now knitting note
Date: 3 Jun 1996 12:34:31 -0600
Organization: The University of Calgary

JeffEBear1 <jeffebear1 at aol.com> wrote:
>Only time I managed that was with a knit (I knoe it's not period)
>cotehardie that someone stuck on me out of silver key my first event!
>
>Morigianna

I'd just like to point out here that 'knitting isn't period' is
an urban legend of the SCA. It is too period - very period, in
fact. There are several charming 13th-14th cent. altarpieces
which show the Virgin knitting, including on that shows her so
doing in the round, making a sweater for (one presumes) the
Christ Child.

Elizabeth I wore knitted silk stockings and adored them. Charles
I was beheaded while wearing a beautiful figured knitted shirt -
again silk, and with a shape familiar to anyone who has ever made
a t-tunic.

Knitting is indeed period. And yet another use of a sheep... 8-)

Nan Compton (mka Bess Anderson)         eanderso at acs.ucalgary.ca
Barony of Montengarde


From: eanderso at acs.ucalgary.ca (Elizabeth A. Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Regarding period knitting
Date: 19 May 1997 01:18:58 -0600
Organization: The University of Calgary

This is in reply to the question regarding the availability of a
treatise on period knitting. Unfortunately, something flickered
when I tried to quote the article, and thus I have not been able
to do that.

The most useful text available on the subject is Richard Rutt's
'A history of handknitting'. This excellent book (currently out
of print) discusses knitting from its beginnings to the present
day. Knitting is a period craft - despite the common knowledge
that says it is not. There are several 14th century altarpieces
that show the Virgin knitting, and Rutt cites some pillows found
in tombs in Spain that show that knitting had developed in that
area to a high level by the 13th century.

There are several knitters' guilds in the Known World. I will
post the address for An Tir's guild after I find my newsletter in
the Sargasso Sea of paper in my desk downstairs.

I am researching this area myself, and hope to be teaching a
class on period knitting at an upcoming Ithra here in July. It is
a fascinating subject.

Nan Compton (mka Bess Anderson)         eanderso at acs.ucalgary.ca
Barony of Montengarde


From: donna at zipnet.net (Donna Flood Kenton)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Knitting
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 14:10:10 GMT
Organization: ZIPNET.NET - The NorthEast US's premier ISP

If anyone is interested in a period stocking pattern to knit, you'll
find one (with documentation) at
http://www.dabbler.com/ndlwrk/stocking.html

Rosalinde De Witte
__________________________________
 Donna Kenton -- donna at dabbler.com 


Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 09:04:15 -0700
From: Brett and Karen Williams <brettwi at ix.netcom.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Knitting  - Late

JRust10541 at aol.com wrote:
> My wife is late period Scottish, but is an avid knitter (modern). Can anyone
> please direct us to pre 1600 knittting patterns, web sites, or books. She has
> subscribed to the newsletter by Melinda Shoop (very interesting even to
> non-knitters).
> Jim & Chris Rust

Youre lady wife might want to look at:

http://www.dabbler.com/ndlwrk/stocking.html

which is based on a pair of knitted stockings of the early-ish 17th
century, despite being titled 19th Century Stockings-- and includes a
complete method for sizing one's own pattern.

ciorstan


Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 23:12:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Carol at Small Churl Books <scbooks at neca.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: knitting references

If anyone is interested copies of any of the following, please e-mail me (so
I can get copies made) and send me a large SASE.  If you want more than one,
please send a manila envelope with postage for 3 ounces.

I. "The Knitting Crafts in Europe from the 13th to the 18th Century" by
Irena Turnau, from the 1982 vol. 25 Bulliten of  the Needle & Bobbin Club

2. "Labonneterie Au Moyen-Age: by Margueite Dubuisson, same source 1969.  In
French, but the vocabulary didn't seem that hard to me.  Has photos.

(I used to have access to a wonderful ILL librarian who got me these from
another state!)

3. instructions for a 16th century knitted cap, by Eileen McCabe, 1989.
This was a class at Pennsic; she had examined and counted 2 caps at the Met,
from digs in London.

4. a teaching packet by the same lady, "Period Knitted Garments: sources,
tools, and materials"

Lady Carllein


Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 18:05:53 -0700
From: ladymari at GILA.NET (Mary Hysong)
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: history of crochet

Catsswan at aol.com wrote:
[snipped here and there]

> I do very little knitting, but I crochet quite well.  I have looked through
> the rialto and find little about period crochet, except that it didn't exist.
>  It is so simple, someone was bound to have figured it out.

While crochet is not my best needle art and I haven't done indepth
research, this may help:

"A History of Hand Knitting"
Richard Rutt, copyright, 1987
ISBN 0-934026-35-l

Mr Rutt covers a number of related crafts, including tablet weaving and
sprang because of their resemblance to knitting and occasional confusion
with knitting, even by archealogists..  He does state, page 10

...The word'crochet' is French for 'a small hook', and is not known to
have been used as a NAME for this craft before 1840 in either Britain or
France.....[extra caps mine for emphasis]

On another page he notes that early Egyptian knitting was done with
hooked needles, so I think we could say that crochet, while it cannot be
proven 100% to BE period, at least is in the realm of  late period
possibilities, also, unless one is entering A/S I personally don't
believe it to make that much difference [tho I'm sure some will
disagree].  Yes, we are supposed to be an Educational organization, but
this is also supposed to be fun [my opinion]

Mairi
--
Mary Hysong <Lady Mairi BroderAtenveldt Kingdom Scribe> and  Curtis
Edenfield <The C-Man>


Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 23:35:11 -0500
From: flyingneedle at webtv.net (Betty Pillsbury)
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: history of crochet

M'Lady Catherine,

Greetings to you on this fine day.  I embroider and crochet also.  I
wrote some documentation on crochet you may find helpful.  While I have
not been able to find crochet done in period as we know it today, I
believe the simple chain stitch and some joinings were done in period.

Gertrude Whiting's book, "Old-Time Tools and Toys of Needlework", page
93, mentions that crocheting was done with a smooth flat gold or silver
thread and that it was much used in the Middle Ages.  On page 97 of that
same volume, she states that she had read "that in the sixteenth century
a hook was necessary for "Nun's work," for this apparently was the old
name for crochet work."

Gertrude was an honorary fellow of the Metropolitan Museum of Art, a
fellow of the Institute Professional Neuchatelois de Dentelles (lace
making), founder of the Needle and Bobbin Club and Bulletin, founder of
The Spinster, Hollings College, and author of other lace books.  I
believe she knew what she was talking about.

Also, another excellent source is "A Living Mystery: The International
Art & History of Crochet" by Annie Potter. This is a thorough and
beautiful tome on crochet.  On page 83, Potter talks about crochet, or
cheyne lace, being produced in Queen Elizabeth's reign.  The Queen had a
"gowne that was exquisitely laid aboute with small cheyne laces of
gold."

There is also reference to bedhangings with cheyne lace.  It seems that
edges and insertions were the main items produced.  Fancy work probably
evolved later.

I would go ahead and crochet if it pleases you.  If you get criticism,
smile as you glance at the machine sewn garment the gentle is wearing
and thank him for the advice.

Lady Bronwynn O'Loughlin
Barony of Lonely Tower


From: "Melinda Shoop" <mediknit at nwinfo.net>
To: <markh at risc.sps.mot.com>
Subject: Medieval knitting
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 00:35:24 +0930

Hello! I'm the person mentioned by Jim Rust in June of this year as having
a newsletter about medieval knitting.  This is true.  
The Ravel'd Sleeve is a quarterly newsletter about medieval knitting and
the reproduction of medieval knitted garments for use in research and
historical recreation.  It aims to educate and encourage those who are
trying to study medieval knitting in any way, but is not, per se, a
scholarly journal.  We follow closely the activities of the Early Knitting
History Group (one of whom is Dr. Richard Rutt, the author of A History of
Hand Knitting), and attempt to bring all the latest news from the
fast-breaking (!) world of medieval knitting.  
Our content features articles, yarn reviews and resources, a pattern for a
knitted medieval garment, and comments of the readers.  In the most recent
issue, Fall 1997, the main topic is relic purses, and a guest reviewer
takes a look at the Textile Museum's knitting exhibit.
Anyone interested in this newsletter should contact me at
mediknit at nwinfo.net

Melinda Shoop,aka Fiametta La Ghianda


Subject: Re: FW: Knitting and period garb
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 19:38:13 -0500
From: caitriona at juno.com (Carrie K Sanders)
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

On Thu, 15 Jan 1998 19:41:28 -0500 Donna Kenton <donna at dabbler.com> writes:
>The earliest decorative knitting that I've seen was Eleanora of Toledo's
>stockings, in the mid 1500's.  These aren't cabled, but done in a guernsey
>style of knitting.  Obviously, that kind of intricacy didn't develop
>overnight, but I don't have any other sources.  Anyone else?
>
>Rosalinde De Witte/Donna Kenton * donna at dabbler.com *
>http://www.dabbler.com

I have other documentation for this, but this was the easiest to type.

Knitting Machines

Knitting, which originated with the knotting of
fishnets and snares by ancient peoples, is the
craft of forming a fabric by the interlocking of
yarn in a series of connected loops by means of
hand or mechanized needles. The craft of knitting
was introduced into continental Europe by the Arabs
in the 5th century, and flourished in England and
Scotland in the 14th and 15th centuries. The Scots
have claimed both its invention and its
introduction into France.

All knitting was done by hand until 1589, when the
English clergyman William Lee invented a machine
that could knit stockings. Queen Elizabeth I of
England refused Lee a patent for his machine,
considering the new invention a threat to many of
the hand knitters in the country. The machine,
however, was used in other countries, and paved the
way for further improvements. The first addition
came in 1758, when a British cotton spinner,
Jedediah Strutt, invented an attachment to the
stocking frame that could produce ribbed fabric. In
the early 19th century the British engineer Marc
Isambard Brunel invented a circular knitting frame,
to which he gave the name tricoteur. The knitting
of heavier yarns became possible when another
British inventor, Matthew Townsend, introduced the
latch needle, a needle having a latch-closed hook
at one end, which he patented in 1858. In 1864
William Cotton, also in Great Britain, introduced
an improvement in power machines that became known
as Cotton's system. The improved machine was
capable of shaping the heels and toes of hosiery,
and it laid the foundation for the modern
full-fashioned machines. Automatic knitting
machines were first introduced in 1889.

"Textiles," Microsoft (R) Encarta. Copyright (c)
1994 Microsoft Corporation. Copyright (c) 1994 Funk
& Wagnall's Corporation.

This article is a little different from the other
knitting machine history articles I've seen. I
never realized how advanced technology was way back
then for textiles. I wonder what clergyman Wm. Lee
would have thought of a Brother 970?

Lady Caitriona inghean Ghuaire of Dragonshade
Nant-Y-Derwyddon, Meridies


Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 17:15:42 EST
From: <SNSpies at aol.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Medieval Knitting Web Page

> (The guage problem is also common in blackwork and knitting - but
> that's a whole  other soap box.)

<< I'd like to hear this "soapbox", as well, please. What do we need to
 adapt (in our gage, and elsewhere) to make it more period? >>

Most of the medieval knitted items are very finely worked, some having gauges
as fine as 17-20 stitches per inch, for example.  It is extremely difficult
for us to get that gauge nowadays, even using fine silk and teeny 7-zeros
needles.

Nancy (Ingvild)


Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 17:20:21 -0600
From: froggestow at juno.com (Roberta R Comstock)
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Medieval Knitting Web Page

<sandilee at cyberhighway.net> writes:
>Roberta R Comstock wrote:
>> (The guage problem is also common in blackwork and knitting - but
>> that;s a whole  other soap box.)
>
>I'd like to hear this "soapbox", as well, please. What do we need to
>adapt (in our gage, and elsewhere) to make it more period?
>
>Sandi

Well, I don't have the time or energy for the long rant (and wouldn't
want to subject all you people to it in any event), but here are the
things I think are important in abbreviated form:

The most valuable and irreplaceable thing you invest in any handwork
project is your time!
It behooves you to use the best materials and tools you can get your
hands on.  You're worth it.  The value of the finished project will be
many times greater than if you work with bad tools and cheap, shoddy
components.    A small kit may be okay for testing to see if you want to
do a 'real' project, but don't get hung up on them.

<snip of blackwork recommendations - see emb-blackwork-msg file>

Knitting -  Most (but not all) period knitting was done in wool or silk.
Silk knitting was considered to be the elite form.    Most period knitted
objects were done in small stitches on fine needles.  Seven stitches to
the inch was considered coarse - masterpiece carpets and wall hangings
might be done in such coarse stitches, but garments were not.  Knitting
worsted weight yarns are probably the heaviest you should use for most
period projects - they would be appropriate for such things as the under
tunics (t-tunics) that eventually became fisherman's sweaters and ski
sweaters, caps, mittens, winter weight hose and leggings.  Sport and
fingering and sock weight yarns are probably closer to period weights for
such things as stockings, gloves, reliquary pouches, and lady's sleeves.
Avoid the modern bulky-knit look.  Work with smooth yarns (not lumpy
ones).   (Although knitting Can be a good way to use up some of your
early spinning efforts - I did a liripipe hood with a dagged cowl with
some of my early handspun.  It's also okay for the little pouches that I
sometimes give away as favors.)

Many items were knitted loosely and oversized and then felted to shrink
and harden the fabric and block it to its final shape and size.  Fuzzy
woolen yarns are suitable for knitwork that will be felted.    Smooth,
tightly spun worsted yarns are better for items that will not be fulled
or felted, and for crisp  color changes in multi-colored pattern work.

If knitting with hand spun yarns, ply your yarn (in the opposite
direction) to prevent the knitting from becoming distorted by sloping in
the direction of the single ply twist.

Hertha


Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 05:58:27 -0600
From: "Somers" <somers at fn.net>
To: <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Re: Medieval Knitting Web Page

>>One of the problems that many people have when they try to substitute
>>a modern technique for a period one is that they are inclined to work
>>in a larger guage (bigger hooks & coarser threads) than would have
>>been done in  period,
>
>[I find this very interesting indeed! I suppose this is a confidence
>thing? Is it easier to hadnle the bigger materials and tools?

A very big YES to the last question....when I was small I was taught with a
size h hook and rug yarn and that is how I teach people when they ask.  My
reasoning is that with the larger yarn <and finished work> it makes it much
easier to explain which loop you need to claim for a particular pattern.
Also, it is often difficult for a 'newbie' to requlate the tension properly
on the smaller thread and needle, and therefore much more difficult to
locate the proper thread to encircle......I will try to remember to bring
examples of some of my 'learning pieces' in my event basket for people who
would be interested.  They are lace pieces done is regular crochet cotton
(bedspread weight) and are much larger than would be normally used.

Eliane
Vatavia
Calontir


Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:13:10 -0500
From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com>
To: Blind.Copy.Receiver at compuserve.com
Subject: Some books on natural & period dyeing

I found some English small press publications that might be of interest to
you folks, contact me direct if you want to buy any of them.

Mel

All prices are British pounds approx 1 pound = 1.6 US dollars, plus
postage. They are A5 slim volumes.at 2.50 pounds each.

Dyer in the Garden-how to grow common dye plants & dye with them

The begineer Spinner- Basic fleece knowledge

The Medieval Dyepot-history of traditional British dyes

The spinners Rhymerie- somgs and poems about spinning, weaving and
shepherding

Knitting handspun yarns- how to calculate the right amount for a garment,
plus basic patterns.

Everything in the kitchen sink-dyeing with kitchen waste

The insatiable spinner- spinning with the likes of llama, alpaca, angora,
dogs, cats etc

The dyers palette- how to get the whole spectrum from natural dyes

A Shepherd's miscellany-, crafts rhymes, stories & traditions on Shepards &
sherherding

A Calender of common dye plants, -Nettle, dock,etc plants for dyes from
Britain

The foreroom rug- heirloom hooked rugs


Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 18:31:44 EDT
From: <SNSpies at aol.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: original knitting machine

Hello, Elizabeta.

<< I have heard of a knitting machine invented in 1589 by
 Rev.William Lee in England to knit stockings. QEI didn't like the product,
 so it wasn't patented until 1598. I would love to make a replica of this
 machine, mainly to see how they have (or have not) changed in the ensuing
 centuries. I have no clue how to start the search. Could anyone give me any
 clues? >>

Milton and Anna Grass wrote a book called, "Stockings for a Queen:  The Life
of the Rev. William Lee, the Elizabethan Inventor" (London:  Heinemann,
1967).  There is a line drawing of the loom with description as well as
several  line drawings of how the mechanism works.  You should be able to get
this book through interlibrary loan.  Good luck.

Nancy (Ingvild)


Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:33:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Cyd <Use-Author-Address-Header at [127.1]>
Subject: Re: knitting question
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

phefner at aol.com (Phefner) writes:
>I'm making a white belt for a knight. I'm using #2 needles and synthetic thread
>I got in a craft shop (Friday, I'm going to a knitting shop, grab new yarn,
>books, etc. etc). Well, it's not looking so great. I'm wondering if this is
>because I'm trying to block the darn thing. It looks like dirt is on the belt
>at the very end--but if I don't block, I've got one heck of a rounded piece!!
>It wouldn't lay out straight and my knitting book said to fix this, you have to
>block using an iron and steam. I'd hate it if I'd screwed up enogh to have to
>nuke the project. I'm inexperienced so I can't exactly start making Eleanor of
>Toledo's stockings next week. Am I burning the damn thing, or is just dirt? You
>know, sometimes I really hate white yarn!! :-)

I'm not quite sure how you're making this... Are you doing knit/purl/knit/purl
or knit/knit/knit/knit?

One thing I used to do that makes for a VERY nice piece, with a lot of 
texture/body to it, and no curled edges, is the popcorn stitch. I know that if
you do the knit/purl/knit/purl after a while your edges WILL curl. It's a
pain, and if it's being worn as a belt then no matter how many times you block
it, once the knight wears the belt, it'll need blocking again. It's annoying.
Been there, done that, scrapped the sweater.

Don't burn it or throw it out, take it as a learning experience, and unravel
it. Reuse the yarn, no big deal. 

Now, instead of doing solid rows of knit/purl, my suggestion to you would be
that popcorn stitch I was talking about. I'll try and detail this in ascii-art
right now, if you have any idea wht I'm talking about, or even if you don't,
let me know.

You start off with your single row of knit in the beginning. Then you start
alternating stitches every two rows and two columns. The ascii-art version:


kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
kkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkpp
kkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkpp
ppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkk
ppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkk
kkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkpp
kkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkpp
ppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkk
ppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkk
kkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkpp
kkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkpp
ppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkk
ppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkk
kkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkpp
kkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkpp
ppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkk
ppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkkppkk

And so on and so forth... Ending with a row of knits again, finishing however
you would normally finish. K is knit, P is purl.

the popcorn stitch has several advantages. First, it won't curl. Because you're
alternating the direction of the stitch, it has no opportunity to curl.

Second, because of the alternating stitch, it actually comes out thicker and 
stronger than a standard knit/purl/kint/purl. Thus putting up with more abuse
and feeling more luxurious to the touch. 

In a non period fashion, I have used this many times for potholders. They hold
out better than your standard potholder. And since they're thicker, insullate
your hand better, too. 

This takes up a bit more yarn than the standard, due to the alternating 
pattern. But it is also far more worth it in the end. Those popcorn potholders
were one of my first projects in knitting, it's very easy, and looks wonderful.

Another suggestion (but this is a personal thing) would be to use either a 
worsted cotton (Lion's Ease has them I think) or pure wool. Unfortunately,
I know that wool is not easy to find out there, nearly everything is acrylic.

Then again, for a belt, acrylic might actually do well, although as far as I'm
concerned, it's usually pure plastic. Wool and cotton feel better, and they're
natural fibers. They breathe well. But since it's a belt and has to put up
with heavy abuse, you may wish to use acrylic after all. Your choice.
(go for the cotton, go for the cotton! I'd say go for the wool, but it's damn
hard to find pure wool yarn nowadays. Unless you have an online source). 

Good luck! Email me (cyd at rci dot rutgers dot edu) if you have any
questions.

Lady Celena de los Rizados, Settmour Swamp, East.


Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 14:11:45 EDT
From: <Phefner at aol.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Knitting needles

Caointiam-- I'm knitting my first piece in something like fifteen years,
although I grew up knitting.  I just learned rib stitch, which is in Eleanor
of Toledo's silk stocking pattern. I'm not going to be ready to do that one
for years--it's *very* difficult. There's a pattern for that in an old TI.
Someone told me that there are mistakes in that pattern. I'm making a white
belt for a friend of mine who's a knight. Then I'm going to do some mundane
projects, including baby booties. You can learn a lot from those because you
have to shape them. My cousin is having twins in January so I'm making
booties for them. No babies in the family? Just get a book of patterns, do an
easy one-first, then pick one that's a little harder. It's like any other
craft in the SCA, it takes practice. Meanwhile you can look for documentation
on medieval knitting patterns, like Eleanor's silk stockings, which are late
period. There is also a fair amount of information about medieval knitting on
Atlantia's Web page. I'm also going ahead and getting some good equipment so
it'll be there when I'm ready to use it. I hate to waste time!
I hope this helps.

Isabelle


Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 23:45:32 EDT
From: <Phefner at aol.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Knitting needles

Actually, I should have known better. In my mundane knitting book it mentions
that in the Middle Ages, knitting was done by men, and there was a knitting
guild in England. One of the medieval socks that still exists is from
Scotland; I think this is the one discussed on the Atlantia A&S page. The
other surviving stockings are, of course, Eleanor of Toledo's, Grand Duchess
of Tuscany in Italy, who died in 1564 during a malaria epidemic. Hers had rib
stitch on them; the article in TI speculates that the purl stitch had just
been invented because they'd always gotten strictly stockinette from working
on four needles in the round. I had no idea that there was a "continental"
and an "English" style! The more I learn, the more inconsistent I get!! :-)
My SCA name is French (and was registered eight years ago); these days most
of my garb is Russian and now some Englishman has taught me something
important since we can't find socks in Novgorod and we're freezing in this
Russian weather!! :-)

Isabelle


Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 19:48:57 +1000
From: "Marg Henley" <mhenley at zip.com.au>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Knitting injuries

The worst thing about fine period knitting is the split finger tips and
the developing callouses. It can be quite frustrating if you are
knitting a place coloured article because you will literally put your
own blood into it if you are using very fine needles.

Try to find/make needles with rounded points, though this will not
entirely eliminate the sore finger problems. Unfortunately you will
stab yourself repeatedly , as firstly the repeated pushing through of
the needles will tenderise your finger tips, then puncture and split
them; the left forefinger first, then later maybe the right fore finger,
too. You must persevere until callouses develop of you will never
pass this point. (I recently sent an unfinished item to a Pincipality
competiton, and by the time it was returned to me the callouses had
gone. So it's back to the beginning again.) The callouses tend to lift
off after about 2 to three weeks, so never fear, you will get your nice
sensitive fingers back again.

Don't be put off the fine work; the finished pieces are worth it!

Margie of Glen More (OL)
House Saarlands
Lochac
West Kingdom


Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 10:55:52 PDT
From: "pat fee" <lcatherinemc at hotmail.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Knitting injuries

  Sometimes if you put a fine leather thimble on you left index finger, and
a piece of "mole  skin"  used for blisters ect on the feet, on you right,
these will help and sometimes promote the formation of calluses, in the case
of the thimble.

Morganuse

>The worst thing about fine period knitting is the split finger tips and
>the developing callouses. It can be quite frustrating if you are
>knitting a place coloured article because you will literally put your
>own blood into it if you are using very fine needles.
>
>Try to find/make needles with rounded points, though this will not
>entirely eliminate the sore finger problems. Unfortunately you will
>stab yourself repeatedly , as firstly the repeated pushing through of
>the needles will tenderise your finger tips, then puncture and split
>them; the left forefinger first, then later maybe the right fore finger,
>too. You must persevere until callouses develop of you will never
>pass this point. (I recently sent an unfinished item to a Pincipality
>competiton, and by the time it was returned to me the callouses had
>gone. So it's back to the beginning again.) The callouses tend to lift
>off after about 2 to three weeks, so never fear, you will get your nice
>sensitive fingers back again.
>
>Don't be put off the fine work; the finished pieces are worth it!
>
>Margie of Glen More (OL)
>House Saarlands
>Lochac
>West Kingdom


Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 20:17:41 +1000
From: "Marg Henley" <mhenley at zip.com.au>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Eleanora's stockings -  a pattern

Please feel free to what you like with this pattern, but I would
appreciate it if you could acknowledge the pattern as mine. Thank
you.

Tension: 10sts  to 1"

              10 rows to 1"

Needles Set of 4 x 2mm needles

Materials: approx 150g unspun silk tops This was spun into a very
fine thread, and then plied to form a 2 ply. (A commercially available
yarn could be substituted; you would just need to do tension smaples
to find the yarn that would produce the appropriate tension on 2mm
needles. Sorry I don't know the US needle size equivalent.)

If you can find photos of the orignal stockings these will help ypu
visualise whether it looks right as you are knitting. There are
pictures in Janet Arnold "Patterns of Fashion" and in Richard Rutt.
(I'm saddened to hear that this is currently out of print.)

METHOD:

Cuff: Cast on 108 sts (36 per needle)

1st row: P1, K8 repeat to end of round

2nd row: K1, P1, K6, P1 repeat to end of round

3rd row: K2 *P1, K4, P3* repeat *to*.

4th row: K3, *P1, K2, P1, K5* repeat *to*.

5th row: K4, *P2, K7* repeat *to*.

Repeat rows 1 to 5 once.

Knit one row

Purl one row

Knit one row

Purl one row

Knit one row

16th row: P2, K10 repeat

17th row: P3 *K8,P4*

18th row: K6, P2 repeat

19th row: K3 *P2, K4*

20th row: K4 *P2, K2, P2, K6*

21st row: K2, yfwd K2tog, K1 *P4, yfwd K2tog, K2, yfwd K2tog, K1*
P4

22nd row: K6, *P2, K10*

23rd row: as 21st

24th row: as 20th

25th row: as 19th

26th row: as 18th

27th row: K1, P2, *K1 ywd K2tog, K2 yfwd K2tog, K1, P4*

28th row: as 16th

29th row: P3 K1 yfwd K2tog, K2, yfwd K2tog

30th row: as 18th

31st row: as 19th

32nd row: as 20th

Repeat rows 21 to 32

45th row: as 21st

46th row: as 22nd

47th row: as 21st

48th row: as 20th

49th row: as 19th

50th row: as 18th

51st row: as 17th

52nd row: as 16th

57th row: Knit

Repeat rows 1 to 14

This completes the patterned cuff. (I also have a graph pattern that
can be used instead of the above instructions, but I don't have the
means to send this via email.)

Turn your work so that this cuiff isnow inside out and continue to
work using the following pattern. When the stocking is finished the
cuff will then be the right way out when folded down.

Stocking proper:

There is also a graph for this pattern which I believe makes it
much easier to visualise, but again I do not have the means to
transmit this except by snail mail.

1st row: K2,P2,K2,P2,K1,P3,K1,P9,K1,P3,K1 repeat

2nd row: K2,P2,K2,P2,K1,P1,K1,P1,K1,P9,K1,P1,K1,P1,K1 repeat

3rd row:P2,K2,P2,K3,P3,K11,P3,K1 repeat

4th row: P2,K2,P2,K3,P1,K1,P1,K11,P1, K1,P1,K1 repeat

Continue suing rows 1 to 4 to form the pattern panels.

78th row: Decrease by K2tog at beginning of each garter stitch panel

90th row: as 78th

120th row: as 78th

140th row: <italic>Stocking should reach your ankle. If extra length is
needed, add it now!</italic>

When adequate length is reached decrease  as in 78th row in next
two consecutive rounds (90sts)

Knit 6 rows in pattern

Divide in half for heel (45sts)

Using 45 sts and two needles knit 28 rows in pattern.<italic> Remember to
reverse purl for plain and vice versa on reverse rows to keep
pattern looking correct.)</italic>

Shape the heel:

Keeping pattern correct K28, sl 1, K1 psso, turn

Pattern to last 16sts, K2 tog.

Continue in this way till all sts are on one needle (15 sts)

The heel turning is now completed.

Knit in pattern to centre of heel sts.

Slip instep sts on to one needle.

Using spare needle knit other half of heel sts, then knit up the side of
the heel flap picking up 15 sts along edge of heel flap you have just
made.

Using 2nd needle work across instep sts

Using 3rd needle pick up 15sts on side of other heel flap then work
across remaianing heel sts.

*Knit instep sts to last 3 then K2 tog, K1. Knit across instep. Knit
other instep starting with K1, sl 1 K1 psso. Knit one round without
shaping.*

Repeat * to * till number of heel sts on the two needles equals the
instep (43 sts)

Continue without shaping until desired foot length to start of toes is
achieved.

*Shape toe by decreasing once on each garter and moss stitch
panel. Knit one round without shaping*.

Continue working * to * until 5 sts remain in each panel.

Continue to decrease in this way, at the same time decreasing at
each side of the foot as follows:

<italic>(Half the number of sts should be on the instep needle, and
quarter on each heel needle.)

</italic>Knit to last 3 sts of 1st needle, K2 tog, K1.

On 2nd needle K1, sl 1 K1 psso, Knit to last 3 sts, K2 tog, K1.

On 3rd needle K1, sl 1 K1 psso, knit to end of needle.

Knit one round without shaping.

Continue to decrease in this way till 30sts remain.

Graft these sts together to seal the toe and now you have half a pair
of 16th century Italian stockings!

Now if you have the perseverance you can make the other half!

Remember if you want them to match exactly, you should arrange
the needles of the heel shaping so that the pattern on the piece on
which you are working mirrors the one you have completed.

I hope this all makes sense. Please ask me if there are queries.

K=knit

P=purl

sl 1 = slip one

K2 tog = knit 2 sts together

psso = pass slip stitch over

The pattern panel continues all the way to the toe. I have not
continued to detail the pattern but I think you'll well and truly have the
hang of it by the time you get to the ankle!

This pattern is not an exact replica of the original stockings, but it is
near as I can get it; it does look pretty true to the original.

Margie of Glen More (OL)
House Saarlands
Lochac
Kingdom of the West.


Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 17:21:08 PDT
From: "elizabeth rose" <rosemorta at hotmail.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: knitting gloves and other info

Hi Margie
>It's easier to tell with stockinet knitting as small tell tale marks in the
>tension at the end of each needle tend to be a give away sign.

To prevent this symptom of circular knitting, slip the first stitch of the
next needle unto the preceding needle after knitting every time. Keeps small
tension ridges from showing.  Use as many needles as you need to knit
comfortably - the current pair I'm doing is on 5 needles - kept dropping
stitches.

>also little leg shaping to indicate where the ends of the
>needles may have been. If there is shaping in stockinet it tends to
>suggest where the ends of the needles may have been, and
>therefore how many needles were used.

Shaping is better done mid-needle, again to prevent tension ridges.

Elsbeth


Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 08:34:27 -0400
From: Margo Lynn Hablutzel <Hablutzel at compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu" <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Ladders when knitting with DPNs

Another suggestion -- you can get very small circular needles.  I use them
when travelling with socks, or when knitting cuffs etc.  Do not have them
in all sizes, but the 11" work for most socks.  Unfortunately, Boye stopped
carrying them, but they are still made in Japan and someone on the KnitList
and Sock-Knitters occasionally does a buy.  12" circulars are still
available.

                                        ---Morgan

                   Morgan Cain * Hablutzel at compuserve.com
                     Barony of the Steppes * Ansteorra


Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 22:56:06 -0400
From: Barbara Trow <trow at hopper.unh.edu>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Ladders when knitting with DPNs

>I'm constantly dropping stitches when I toss a project in my take-along bag

Many years ago when I was doing a project on double pointed  needles I had
little rubber stoppers to put on the ends when I wanted to put the project
down for a while. They may still be available.

Aine


Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 20:18:46 PDT
From: "elizabeth rose" <rosemorta at hotmail.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Ladders when knitting with DPNs

>Many years ago when I was doing a project on double pointed  needles I had
>little rubber stoppers to put on the ends when I wanted to put the project
>down for a while. They may still be available.
>Aine

Forgot about those - took the idea and cut up one of those really long
erasers (I'm an Exchequer - go figure) and used them - works great

Elsbeth


Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 01:43:31 -0800
From: <lilinah at earthlink.net>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: A&S at Estrella

Angelina wrote:
>Does anybody know where I can get some good info about spinning
>and knitting in the SCA? I've been searching the websites, but haven't found
>much... Thanks!

I have a little info on my website, but it's specifically oriented to 
North African knitting. I have two projects and some information 
there on Egyptian knitting. I just completed one more project and 
half of a fourth, and i hope to get scans up tomorrow, along with an 
expanded bibliography. This will be oriented to Muslim knitting from 
North Africa and al-Andalus (Andalusia), but i will also have some 
modern books listed that are helpful for learning technique.

I wanted to go to Estrella but haven't been able to get a ride. I 
*REALLY* wanted to make contact with the Knitters Guild :-(

One essential book is Rutt, Richard. A History of Hand Knitting. 
Loveland: Interweave Press, 1987.
It covers knitting from its beginnings (and its antecedents) through 
the 20th century. And lots of information and pattern charts of older 
stuff. It is unfortunately out of print, but can be found through 
book searches through places like
http://www.bookfinder.com
It isn't cheap, but it's a treasure. Or find it in a library and 
photocopy the parts that are most relevant to you.

Naturally if you want to focus on a particular period and/or region, 
then you need to do more research on that.

And there's a Knitting Bibliography at Stefan's Florilegium
http://lg_photo.home.texas.net/florilegium/files/p-knitting-bib.html

Anahita Gauri al-shazhiya bint-Karim al-hakim al-Fassi


From: ghelena661 at aol.com (Ghelena661)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Early Knitting...
Date: 02 Nov 2000 08:49:11 GMT

     Knitting is pretty old.  There is some difference of opinion about exactly
how old knitting is, but experts agree that by the third century A.D. knitting
had reached an advanced state.  I personally believe that knitting could go
back into BC times, possibly using hooked needles, in the Middle East.  This is
a view held by alot of knitters, not just me.  However, I have no rock solid
documentation for this.  I will not be suprised if some turns up, though.

     There is a pair of sandal socks from 4-5 C. Medittereanen region that have
a turned gussetless, Dutch (square) type heel.  They are pictured in The Mary
Thomas Knitting Book.  They have a division for the big toe, and a drawstring
around the top.

     There is a "Knitting Madonna", it was made as a frontispiece in Germany in
the 11-12 C.  The Madonna has what appears to be a shirt in her hands, with a
set of 5 DPN's in the neck.  This picture is also in the Mary Thomas book.

     Now, about knotting.  Garments that appear to be knotted could be naal
binding. Knowledge of naal binding and exactly what it is/looks like, has
allowed museum experts to more properly catalog items previously thought to be
knitting.  Naal binding and knitting 'almost' appear the same, and someone who
does either craft can tell them apart.  Naal binding is a very Scandinavian
art.  Knitting seems to have originated in the Middle East, while the Northern
Europeans came up with Naal binding.  It requires a wood or bone needle, and
the yarn is wrapped around the thumb and then knotted off.

     I am not sure if this is what you wanted to know.  Richard Rutt's History
of Handknitting goes into the early years, as does the Mary Thomas book.  Rutt
is out of print, but Thomas is a Dover.  The Thomas book is not as
compreshensive on history as the Rutt book.

I also may be mispelling lots of words, including naal binding!

May your threads never tangle,
Roxanne Greenstreet
Marinus, Atlantia


From: gunnora at my-deja.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Early Knitting...
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 20:53:14 GMT

Mairi suggested:
> - the identification of naalbinding vs. "knitting" is a fairly recent
> phenomenon in the historic textile world.

One good article to begin with is:

Turnau, Irena. "The Diffusion of Knitting in Medieval Europe." Cloth
and Clothing in  Medieval Europe: Essays in Memory of Professor E.M.
Carus Wilson. Pasold Studies in Textile  History 2. eds. B.B. Harte and
K. G. Ponting. London: Pasold. 1983. pp. 368-389.

::GUNNORA::


From: Heather Rose Jones <hrjones at socrates.berkeley.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Early Knitting...
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 09:54:01 -0800
Organization: University of California at Berkeley

RANMurphy wrote:
>    I've run across a reference to a pair of curved, metal knitting needles
> dated to the third century A.D.  They currently reside at the National Museum
> in Ireland; the source further suggests that earlier (!) needles may have been
> made of goose quills, "because of their length and strength."

One caution I'd advise is that archaeologists -- with a few notable and
delightful exceptions -- tend to be extremely ignorant on issues related
to textiles and textile-production.  I have run across references
parallel to the above, where the reasoning given by the researcher was
something along the line of, "well, I remember seeing my grandmother
knit, and it seems to me she used something vaguely like this".

So before taking the above interpretation at face value, I'd want to
know whether the person offering the information has a background in the
archaeology of textile equipment and the history of textile production. 
Similarly for the suggestion about using goose quills for knitting, I'd
want to know their reasoning.  Do they have any positive evidence for
this?  Is it simply an offhand speculation?  Do they know of any
cultures (historic or modern) for which there is clear evidence of using
goose quills for knitting?

Simply as a bald statement, the two claims above have no particular
force beyond that of anybody's speculation.  To upgrade them to an
informed judgment, I'd need to know what's informing them.

>   Elsewhere, studying eighth and eleventh century mss, I've encountered
> descriptions of "knotted" tunics and other apparel, where the notion of
> decoration does not appear to be implied.
> 
>  Could this be "knitting" of some sort?  Have any of you ladies (or gentleman)
> of the swift, clicking needles any familiarity with this?

"Knotted" could also easily imply a decorative knotted fringe -- a
common edge-treatment in Migration Era and early medieval archaeological
textiles.  Knitting and knitting-like techniques were in use at that
time, of course, but the known applications (based on surviving
examples) lean towards small, highly-shaped items such as gloves, socks,
purses, etc. and not large body garments.

The earliest evidence I know of for knitted body garments are a couple
artistic representations of a "knitting Madonna", where she is shown
making a tunic-like garment.  (I believe these are from around the
14-15th c., but I'm away from my books and can't check.)  Debate still
rages around the question of whether these pictures represent an actual
type of garment production contemporary with the art, or whether --
being an attempt to interpret the Bible's "seamless garment" reference
-- they were pure speculation on the artist's part, applying a known
technique in an imaginative way to a new application.

(I personally tend to lean towards the former view -- that an artist
would be unlikely to choose to depict someone knitting a shirt unless
that were actually being done in his culture, but the fact remains that
the earliest surviving knitted body garments date to the early 17th
century and are quite different in construction from those depicted in
the Madonna pieces.)

Tangwystyl


From: Heather Rose Jones <hrjones at socrates.berkeley.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Early Knitting...
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 16:36:04 -0800
Organization: University of California at Berkeley

gunnora at my-deja.com wrote: 
> Mairi suggested:
> > - the identification of naalbinding vs. "knitting" is a fairly recent
> > phenomenon in the historic textile world.
> 
> One good article to begin with is:
> 
> Turnau, Irena. "The Diffusion of Knitting in Medieval Europe." Cloth
> and Clothing in  Medieval Europe: Essays in Memory of Professor E.M.
> Carus Wilson. Pasold Studies in Textile  History 2. eds. B.B. Harte and
> K. G. Ponting. London: Pasold. 1983. pp. 368-389.

One does need to be careful with Turnau as she is often either vague or
sloppy about distinguishing between the various non-woven thread-based
textile techniques.  You can't depend that when she says "knitted" that
the technique involved is the specific one we modern English-speakers
mean by that term.  She's a great resource for tracking down
information, though.

Tangwystyl


Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 23:08:18 +0100
From: Anna Troy <owly at hem.utfors.se>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Book tip

Just received my copy of "A History of Hand Knitting" by Richard Rutt,
bishop of Leicester. Wow have I gotten some project ideas! The book has
patterns for pillows from the thirteenth century and alms purses etc
that'll make any pattern knitter drool. Watch out when it comes to pricing
though sice it looks like it's one of those books were the price can vary
wildly. I managed to get a quite nice used copy for =A315 (about $21)

Anna de Byxe


From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 12:24:44 -0700
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT Weaving and knitting sites

<blush. drag toe in dirt>

I have part of my SCA website devoted to period knitting,
specifically Medieval Egyptian knitting, which is the earliest known
knitting in the world, with pictures of some of the stuff i've knit.

http://home.earthlink.net/~lilinah/Knitting/EgyptKnitIntro.html
   [link updated: 8/10/05 – Stefan]

Anahita


Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 00:49:27 -0600
From: Sue Clemenger <mooncat at in-tch.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Dar Anahita is BACK!
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.or>

Stefan li Rous wrote:
> knit pouches? Any evidence of these being period? 

Oh, heck yes, they're period, Stefan.  The ones I recall (at this late
hour) are relic pouches, done in this beautiful, tiny-gauge,
multicolored silk patterns.  Spanish, 14th? c., at least the ones that
I'm remembering.
And there's the Gunnister find, although that's post period, being distinctly late 17th c.

--sue, proto string geek


From: Bree Flowers <evethejust at gmail.com>
Date: February 19, 2011 1:48:13 AM CST
To: Barony of Bryn Gwlad <bryn-gwlad at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Bryn-gwlad] Looking to borrow a yarn winder and swift

On Feb 18, 2011, at 2:47 PM, Bree Flowers wrote:
<<< Before I go out and buy more fiber arts stuff (that my husband insists I don't need, but of course I can't see that) is there anyone out there with a yarn swift and ball winder that I might be able to borrow for a short time? Bought lots of yummy sock yarn from Knit Picks but it's all in skeins - boo. Bonus points if I can also borrow a yarn scale so I can break my skeins into 2 equal balls :)

~Eve >>>

On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 1:01 AM, Stefan li Rous ‪<StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>‬ wrote:
<<< Okay, I get the basic idea of a ball winder, but what is the yarn swift for?

I assume "sock yarn" is yarn that is best to make socks from, but what makes it specifically good for that?  Does this mean there is also "sweater yarn" and "hat yarn" and "kitty yarn"?

Does a yarn scale measure length? or weight?

   Stefan >>>

 A skein of yarn is when you wind your yarn into a big, long circle (often done for dyeing or display purposes) and then twist it up for neat storage, but you'll get a lot of tangles if you try to work with it this way. When you open up this circle that's the scene you get in pioneer movies where someone is stuck holding their arms out with a big hank of yarn while someone else is winding it into a ball. A swift is a device that takes the place of this poor person's arms, and also rotates so the yarn comes off more smoothly and quickly.

Because socks go through some stuff that most other hand-knits do not, sock yarn is a specific type of yarn. After all, when was the last time you walked on a sweater or stuffed a hat in your shoe? And then there's the foot funk that will generally necessitate a bit more enthusiastic laundering than say a pair of mittens or a scarf. Sock yarn is a particular type of yarn that is usually washable (sometimes even machine washable and dryer-safe) but still has some elasticity/spring to it and wears well. Often it is wool blended with nylon to give strength or bamboo to give it antibacterial properties. Sometimes it is entirely acrylic, but that is evil and we will speak no more of it. The wool used is also often treated and labeled "superwash"; they do something that removes the microscopic velcro-like hooks that cause wool to felt when exposed to heat, moisture and agitation or friction, all things that happen with socks of course. One can use "sock yarn" for a myriad of uses (I'm thinking it might make nice washable inkle woven trim for example), but if one makes socks out of any other yarn it rarely works out well in the long run.

The only other type of yarn I know that comes with a "good for this thing" label is "baby" yarn. Again, this is often washable (in chain stores it is almost always acrylic - again ewww), usually in sickening pastel shades, which is odd as many baby clothes now are in bright primary colors, and usually it is pretty soft to the touch (though again, we're often dealing with acrylic, which won't be as soft as many high-end wools, cashmere, silks, mohairs, all the good stuff you cannot get at chain stores, but which comes at a higher price than the average "crafter" is willing to pay, but that yarn snobs don't bat an eyelash at).

Why yes, I am obsessive and passionate about yarns, but whatever would give you that idea? :)

Finally, a yarn scale measures weight, that's why it's a scale, not a yardstick ;) A postal scale would also work. A bathroom scale would not as most skeins of yarn are in the 50-100g range. Not sure what that is in ounces, sorry, I'm a metric Canadian kind of girl, but it's WAY less than a pound anyway. So a scale that measures in ounces and fraction of ounces, not pounds (too big) or micrograms (way too small).

Not entirely sure about knitting in period, that's not my area of interest, but my former apprentice sister (now a laurel) did a pattern for a felted hat that was apparently very common in later period England. http://odettesobsessions.blogspot.com/2010/11/monmouth-cap.html Whether socks were knitted or not is probably going to be hard to find out. Cloth is one of those things that just doesn't survive well, and socks (being under a lot of stress) would be one of those things that would wear out more quickly than others. That said, I'm pretty sure I once heard of a knitted sock dating back to early period Egypt (1000 CE or so). I'm sure they didn't have super-wash wool yarn with nylon or bamboo blended in though :)

~Eve


Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 14:36:53 -0400
From: Marie Stewart <maricelt at gmail.com>
To: Atlantia - MerryRose <atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org>
Subject: [MR] Research Resource: For the Atlantian Knitters

From the Museum of London via MEDTC.   <fangirl SQUEEEE>  Happy Hunting:
Bridgette

I'm pleased to announce that the knitted 16th century cap
collection ofthe Museum of London is now online. The
73 caps, coifs, cap fragments, linings and earpieces have been newly
photographed, with captions containing contextual and technical
information. All the pieces will have their full captions in the
next two weeks.

The caps and their parts are of a large group of material
excavated from sites around London by workmen in the early 20th
century. They represent an insight into everyday urban
clothing and a high level of technical skill in their knitted,
fulled and napped construction. Caps of this style are in collections
across Europe and North America and are the focus of a lot of research
interest, so we are pleased to make a large group available to
the wider research community.

To browse the caps, please go to the Collections Online
site and enter 'cap' in the Keyword field with the date range
1500-1600 in the search fields.

Many thanks to all the researchers who
have contributed to this project, especially
Jane Malcolm-Davies of The Tudor Tailor.

Do please pass this on to anyone who may be
interested, and feel free to contact me
if you have any questions.

Hilary
http://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/Collections-Research/Collections-online/SearchAdvance.aspx



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