placenames2-msg – 11/22/07
Origins and meanings of SCA placenames. Some of the stories behind them. This is the second of two such files.
NOTE: See also the files: SCA-hist1-msg, SCA-stories1-msg, child-stories-msg, you-know-msg, border-stories-msg, Hst-SCA-Fence-art, placenames-msg.
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NOTICE -
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.
Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).
Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
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Subject: Re: ANST - Moving to Ansteorra, eh?
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 98 07:22:52 MST
From: Baronman at aol.com
To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG
Came from the Barony of Cour Eneui (the Heart of Boredom) Des Moines, Iowa.
You cann't believe how true that name is. Stuck around here for twelve
years.
Guess all the RIGHT people live in this Kingdom.
Baron Bors of Lothian
From: "Elizabeth Zagula" <ezagula at srv.net>
To: <stefan at texas.net>
Subject: Re: Coron-Artem-art
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 20:32:37 -0700
<snip>
As far as how the Barony of One Thousand Eyes got it's name....Well, the
barony covers all of southeastern Idaho from just inside the Wyoming
border, up to the Montana border, and down to the Utah border. All of this
is prime potato country. Way back in the days of incipient shirehood,
someone decided to be the Shire of One Thousand Eyes in honor of the
numerous eyes on the many potatoes around here. Now, of course, we do not
admit to that and the Peacock with it's many feathered eyes is the baronial
device and symbol of the barony. The peacock is just slightly more
heraldicly correct and regal than the spud!
Elizabeth
Subject: Re: Kingdom names
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 10:02:57 -0500
From: Richard Tucker <nitecrawler7 at worldnet.att.net>
To: Stefan li Rous <stefan at texas.net>
Origin of the name "Namron" (no shit, I was there)
In the very first days, before the Barony, before the Shire, before the
Insipid Shire, there was the Group. (AS 9) Included in the group were
the Fogels, who had a highschool age daughter. Daughter went to football
games as a cheerleader. (the importance of this will be revealed) the
cheerleaders occupied the far side of the stadium in those days, so as
to be better visible to the cameras in the pressbox. During the halftime
festivities, when the band was manuvering, the six tubaswould array
themselves in a row along the back line (facing the pressbox) with cloth
covers over the bells, each containing a letter, the combined effort
spelling NORMAN (while facing the pressbox). when the band turned to
play for the student seats, (facing away from the pressbox) the tubas
tended to turn in place, the covers now spelling NAMRON, and Daughter
being a bit of a whiner, insisted the group name be Namron, and the
adults gave in to shut her up, and the name stuck.
HL Charly the Bastard the Last Dworf in Ansteorra
Subject: Oldenfeld (Trimaris) name history
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 00:41:07 EDT
From: BastetKat at aol.com
To: stefan at texas.net
You may already know this one, but Oldenfeld is located in the city of
Tallahassee, Fl. Tallahassee is Indian for "Old fields", thus the translation
to old English "Oldenfeld". Further, we are located in Leon county, so of
course we chose a lion as our heraldry...
(Our Kingdom's triskele supposedly comes from the hurricane symbol, but I
can't verify that one!)
Lady Judith
Subject: Re: Oldenfeld (Trimaris) name history
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 15:05:36 EDT
From: BastetKat at aol.com
To: stefan at texas.net
Actually, I'm pretty sure about the Triskele. The name Trimaris
definitely refers to our penesular status, and the hurricane symbol is
basically a triskele. I learned this from Master Morric Haast, who has been
around in Trimaris forever.
In addition, our shire chose a couchant lion to represent our laid-back
manner...
In Service, Judith
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 21:52:29 -0400
From: Bonne <oftraquair at hotmail.com>
Subject: Where in Atlantia, was SC - My last word on Feast-o-crats
Buckston-on-Eno, Windmasters' Hill (Durham, NC)
Durham was built because of [the company of] Duke Tobacco, Duke Tobacco
was founded by James B. Duke = "Buck" Duke; therefore Buck's Town on the Eno (River). Cool, huh?
As for the derivation of Windmasters' Hill, it is something to do with men
trying out some flying contraption near the sea.
Bonne de Traquair
Subject: Re: SCA vanity license plates
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 98 03:23:50 MST
From: "sheydel at bellsouth.net" <sheydel at mail.bna.bellsouth.net>
To: "Mark.S Harris (rsve60)" <rsve60 at email.sps.mot.com>
> Any idea where the name of Glaedenfeld came from or what it means?
> Stefan li Rous
Glaedenfeld derives (I am told by Baron Akim Yaroslavich, our founding
member) from the Anglo-Saxon for "field of flowers". I was also told
there is a reference in Tolkien to the same term.
Your Obedient Servant,
Lord Edmund Cavendish
Shire of Glaedenfeld, Kingdom of Meridies
(Steve Heydel)
From: james koch <alchem at en.com>
Organization: alchem inc
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Place-names
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 00:39:57 -0400
> Where do we get the names of our Kindoms/baronies/shires/etc?
> Lord Erec L'Claire
"Pentwyvern" was named by a Ouija board, or so I am told.
Jim Koch(Gladius The Alchemist)
From: moondrgn at bga.com (Chris and Elisabeth Zakes)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Place-names
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:19:54 GMT
An orbiting mind control laser caused lorderec at aol.com (Lord Erec) to write:
>Where do we get the names of our Kindoms/baronies/shires/etc?
There is no one source. Usually the group makes up a name that pleases the majority of the folks there, run it past the herald's office to make sure it follows their rules, and then they go with it. Frequently, names are based on the mundane location of the group. The East Kingdom is on the east coast of the U.S.; the Middle Kingdom is midway between the East and West; Atenveldt, which started in Arizona, means "sun plains"; Ansteorra, which started in Texas, means "lonestar"; Trimaris means "three seas", it's is at the juncture of the Atlantic Ocean, the Carribbean and the Gulf of Mexico. Sometimes the names are puns or in-jokes. The barony of the Stargate is Houston Texas; Namron is Norman (Oklahoma) spelled backwards; the College of Grey Gargoyles is the University of Chicago (which has lots of gargoyles as decorative motifs on the buildings); Boise Idaho(potatoes) is the Barony of One Thousand Eyes; Des Moines Iowa iscalled Coeur d'Ennui (heart of boredom) etc.
-Tivar Moondragon
Ansteorra
C and E ZakesTivar Moondragon (Patience and Persistence)and Aethelyan Moondragon (Decadence is its own reward)moondrgn at bga.com
From: powers at cis.ohio-state.edu (william thomas powers)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Place-names
Date: 19 Apr 1999 13:43:01 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science
Well having named a shire; I chose one that I liked! I like the names having some sort of link to the area so I can remember where the heck they are; so when it came time to choose a name for the shire in Fort Smith I held my breath and turned blue until everyone else agreed to name "Smith Keep" (yes the fact that I am a blacksmith and that the shire was founded in my living room one New Year's eve with my wife as the first seneschale did make things easier...though the shire of Hangman's tree did suggest itself too)
wilelm the smith
From: Edouard d'Avignon <splatter at bigfoot.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Place-names
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:10:06 GMT
"Thescorre" is an anagram for "Rochester" in upstate NY
Edouard
BOB RAEF!
From: "M.Dwayne Herron & Anne R. Martens" <blackknight at erols.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Place-names
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 22:33:17 -0400
Organization: Silver Heron Industries
Lord Erec wrote:
> Where do we get the names of our Kindoms/baronies/shires/etc?
> Lord Erec L'Claire
When the now legendary Shire of Ashental (Geneseo, NY) was being named,it was originally to have been Achental. However it was rejected by the College of Heralds because there was a place called Achen in Germany,and 'tal' means 'valley of'. So we burned it to the ground (the letter,not the town) and we were registered as Ashental.
Diablu, Black Knight of the East
From: greycat at idt.net (Greycat Sharpclaw)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Place-names
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:43:32 GMT
There is an allegation that Lord Erec wrote:
> Where do we get the names of our Kindoms/baronies/shires/etc?
Depends on the mood of the naming meeting. I was there when Worcester, Mass. was named "Von Sosse" (German for "of sauce") because it was the Worcester-Shire. It's since been renamed...
Lord Emrys Cador
Barony of Settmour Swamp
East Kingdom
From: "Lyle H. Gray" <gray at cs.umass.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Place-names
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:13:23 -0400
Greycat Sharpclaw wrote:
>Depends on the mood of the naming meeting. I was there when
>Worcester, Mass. was named "Von Sosse" (German for "of sauce") because
>it was the Worcester-Shire.
It's since been renamed...Twice...
Current name is "Quintavia", meaning "five roads".
Lyle FitzWilliam
Bergental, East
From: Marcus MacFarlane <ClanLaird at HoTMaiL.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Place-names
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:30:53 GMT
Here in the Northern Wood of the East's Royal Forest of Rusted Woodlands, we made an attempt to go Incipient (since then we may become a Canton if the Barony polls pull through). Our Incipient Meetings met in the local Library and we got our hands on a Gaelic Dictionary and started thumbing through it while people started spouting Mundane and Scadian Features. We realized we were on the border of what was soon to be Aethelmearc with a branch of the Apalachian and Catskill Mountains on one border and Bear Mountain on the Hudson Border with a rolling valley in between. Realizing that we would be a border Shire we looked it up and 'Tearmann' came up, and with the surrounding Mountains we looked that up and got 'Cruachan.' Thus was born the Incipient Shire of Tearmann Cruachan.
SATIRE NOTE: Our Seneschal to be was none other than the Cheiftain Laird of Clan Campbell who perked up at this wonderful name when it was said. Turned out that 'Cruachan' is the Clan Campbell Battle Cry and as Cheiftain Laird of the Clan, he had no objection to the name. Strangely, he had nothing to do with looking up the name nor did he push anyone to vote for it.
Marcus MacFarlane
Cheiftain Laird of Clan MacFarlane
ClanLaird at HoTMaiL.com
From: "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant at indiana.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Place-names
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 02:33:07 -0500
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington
Lord Erec wrote:
> Thank you all for your replys. Interesting that there was no talk of period
> naming practices......
No one said it overtly, but there's plenty of period naming practices there. Geographical features (Middle Kingdom, Trimaris). Common in mundane world; look at Cleveland, Chunguo ("middle kingdom" aka China). Physical features (An Crosaire = The Crossroads, South Keep = the southernmost shire in Trimaris). Again, Cleveland, Des Plaines, GrandsTitons. Translations or modifications of existing names (Cleveland -->Cleftland, Tallahassee --> Oldenfleld). Trafalgar from Tarif al-Ghar. London from Londinium. Named for the founders or in honor of someone (Smith Shire as mentioned before, Mathom's Trove) Coopersville. Pennsylvania. Franklin Station. There are many perfectly period names out there. There are some weird mundane ones, too. My favorite is in N. California, Coalinga (pronounced koh LING uh). It was a stop on the railroad line,and was coaling stop A. Hence, coaling A, or Coalinga.
Effingham
From: moondrgn at bga.com (Chris and Elisabeth Zakes)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Place-names
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:30:31 GMT
An orbiting mind control laser caused Marcus MacFarlane <ClanLaird at HoTMaiL.com> to write:
>Here in the Northern Wood of the East's Royal Forest of Rusted Woodlands, we
>made an attempt to go Incipient (since then we may become a Canton if the
>Barony polls pull through).
>
>Out Incipient Meetings met in the local Library and we got our hands on a
>Gaelic Dictionary and started thumbing through it while people started
>spouting Mundane and Scadian Features.
One warning: this method can be dangerous, if you don't know the language, or run the name past someone who does. I live in Bryn Gwlad (Austin TX) which, according to the Welsh dictionary means "hill" and "country". In Welsh, however, the meaningis "the land of the unspecified, personified hills." (It *should* havebeen "Bryn Dir".)
-Tivar Moondragon
Ansteorra
From: hrjones at socrates.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Place-names
Date: 21 Apr 1999 17:46:10 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Chris and Elisabeth Zakes (moondrgn at bga.com) wrote:
: One warning: this method can be dangerous, if you don't know the
: language, or run the name past someone who does.
: I live in Bryn Gwlad (Austin TX) which, according to the Welsh
: dictionary means "hill" and "country". In Welsh, however, the meaning
: is "the land of the unspecified, personified hills." (It *should* have
: been "Bryn Dir".)
There are any number of constructions that could have had the idiomatic meaning "hill country". I'd tend to translate "Bryn Gwlad" more as "country hill", though.
Tangwystyl
*********************************************************
Heather Rose Jones hrjones at socrates.berkeley.edu
**********************************************************
From: "Christopher Straughn" <oxsnard at concentric.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Place-names
Date: 21 Apr 1999 16:27:15 PDT
There is an allegation that Lord Erec wrote:
> Where do we get the names of our Kindoms/baronies/shires/etc?
The shire of Oldenfeld in Trimaris was named after the town its located in: Tallahassee. It seems Tallahassee is Creek for Old Field and the founding membersthought/may have been right ??? that Oldenfeld was Middle English for oldfield.
Christoff
From: "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant at indiana.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Place-names
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:53:04 -0500
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington
Brian M. Scott wrote:
> Cleveland is named for Moses Cleaveland. <Middle Kingdom> does not
> strike me as a period place-name in that form, and it's not clear that
> <Trimaris> is, either.
Given on Cleveland. I thought it was a referral to the local cleft in the geography. As for middle kingdom, tell it to China (Chunguo ="middle kingdom") and Mediterranean ("Middle Earth!!!???") Sea. If it weren't English, it might sound better to our ears. Heck, most people I know say "Midrealm" anyway. As for Trimaris, how about "Cinque Ports"?
> > Physical features (An Crosaire = The Crossroads,
> > One would have to determine whether such a place-name is actually
> compatible with period Gaelic place-naming practice. I assumed that they had.
> > Translations or modifications of existing names (Cleveland -->
> > Cleftland,
> > <Cleftlands>, actually. Not a period place-name construction. Hey, it beats Rivendell...
> > Tallahassee --> Oldenfleld).
> > Is that <Oldenfield>? It would be better as <-feld> or, in late period
> <-field>.
No, its "feld." Tallahassee is the local (Seminole?) term for "the oldfields (where we used to live but don't live anymore)." Theparenthetical, I'm told, is the actual connotation of that particularword OLD, as opposed to the old-not-new OLD. (More than you want toknow, eh? I was the Oldenfeld herald for a while... Way after the group was established, however.)
Effingham
From: albion at holyrood.ed.ac.uk ( Andrew Casson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Place-names
Date: 22 Apr 1999 12:28:09 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University
Lord Erec wrote:
> Where do we get the names of our Kindoms/baronies/shires/etc?
It's a while since we did this, so my memory may be off, but...
Harpelestane:
har: cold (also a play on Haar, the usual name for sea-fog in these parts, but unfortunately an OOP borrowing from Dutch).
pele: castle, tower (Peel/Pel/Pele).
stane: stone, rock.Hence cold-castle-rock, with suggestions of sea-fog, a good descriptionof Edinburgh.
Wolfgang Adolphus Jager
Seneschal, Harpelestane
(Dominic Hunter, Edinburgh)
From: Sweetlady <sweetlady at my-dejanews.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Place-names
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 03:10:03 GMT
forlornh at aol.computation (ForlornH) wrote:
>When the now legendary Shire of Ashental (Geneseo, NY) was being named,
>it was originally to have been Achental. However it was rejected by the
>College of Heralds because there was a place called Achen in Germany,
>and 'tal' means 'valley of'. So we burned it to the ground (the letter,
>not the town) and we were registered as Ashental.
When the Utica/ Rome NY group wanted to split from the Barony of Delftwood(Syracuse, NY) people wanted to show a connection with the Barony and also aconnection with Utica/ Rome. So it was decided on Copper (RevereWare Headquarters in Rome) and Tree (tree - wood) --- Shire of Coppertree. I know this isn't period but there were several "older" SCAdians working on this name.IMHO, I would think that Orion's Gate (army base Ft. Drum, Watertown, NY) is so called because Orion was a warrior and Watertown is on the St. Lawrence Seaway (Gate-way to the Sea).
Sweetlady
From: "Harold D Sherman" <HALFRED at prodigy.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Place-names
Date: 25 Apr 1999 17:42:13 GMT
As one of the founding members concerned, (Echegaray of Shadow Valley atthe time), I confess to this. The research involved was taking the name ofone my favorite novelists, Zoe Oldenbourg, and attempting to convert it tomean "Old Field". Clearly not the best method, but I'd love to know if Icame at all close to a period construction.
Christopher Straughn <oxsnard at concentric.net> wrote:
<SNIP>
> The shire of Oldenfeld in Trimaris was named after the town its located in:
> Tallahassee.
> It seems Tallahassee is Creek for Old Field and the founding members
> thought/may have been right ??? that Oldenfeld was Middle English for old
> field.
> Christoff
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Florilegium files for May]
Date: Tue, 11 May 99 19:51:36 MST
From: martian at iwvisp.com
To: "Mark.S Harris (rsve60)" <rsve60 at email.sps.mot.com>
>Lord Stefan li Rous
>
>PS: What is the story behind the Naevehjem name? I'd love a message
>on it's origins and/or meanings for my placenames-msg file. I'm
>also curious about Neb Kaires Tevesu. What culture and time is it
>from? Japanese? Middle Eastern?
We're based in a "company town" for the Naval Air
Warfare Center, China Lake, where we develop and
test weapons and aircraft for the Navy. We wanted
the name Nibelheim (where small dark elves make
weapons of destruction), but couldnít get it passed
because it's a "real" place. So linguists among us
searched other Norse sources and came up with
Naevehjem (Fist Home)...We're called the Navy
Hamsters by the Barony of Dun Or (Golden Tower)
down South of us...We call them the Dun Oreos.
Kaires is an ancient Egyptian name. Neb means
Lord in that language...Tevesu means "son of Thebes."
Subject: Meaning of Bonwicke
Date: Tue, 08 Jun 99 09:35:08 MST
From: Bjorn Lochlannac <bjorn at odsy.net>
To: "Mark.S Harris (rsve60)" <rsve60 at email.sps.mot.com>