placenames2-msg – 8/11/10
Origins and meanings of SCA placenames. Some of the stories behind them. This is the second of two such files.
NOTE: See also the files: Branch-Names-art, placenames-msg, placenames3-msg, SCA-hist1-msg, SCA-stories1-msg, child-stories-msg, you-know-msg, border-stories-msg, Hst-SCA-Fence-art.
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NOTICE -
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.
Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).
Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
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Note: This is the second of the 3 placenames-msg files in the Florilegium. I am still looking for the stories behind the SCA group names not given in these files. If you know the story behind a name not given in these files, please send me an email with the group name and story so that I may add it to these files.
Thanks,
Stefan
Subject: Re: ANST - Moving to Ansteorra, eh?
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 98 07:22:52 MST
From: Baronman at aol.com
To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG
Came from the Barony of Cour Eneui (the Heart of Boredom) Des Moines, Iowa.
You can't believe how true that name is. Stuck around here for twelve
years.
Guess all the RIGHT people live in this Kingdom.
Baron Bors of Lothian
From: "Elizabeth Zagula" <ezagula at srv.net>
To: <stefan at texas.net>
Subject: Re: Coron-Artem-art
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 20:32:37 -0700
<snip>
As far as how the Barony of One Thousand Eyes got it's name....Well, the
barony covers all of southeastern Idaho from just inside the Wyoming
border, up to the Montana border, and down to the Utah border. All of this
is prime potato country. Way back in the days of incipient shirehood,
someone decided to be the Shire of One Thousand Eyes in honor of the
numerous eyes on the many potatoes around here. Now, of course, we do not
admit to that and the Peacock with it's many feathered eyes is the baronial
device and symbol of the barony. The peacock is just slightly more
heraldicly correct and regal than the spud!
Elizabeth
Subject: Re: Kingdom names
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 10:02:57 -0500
From: Richard Tucker <nitecrawler7 at worldnet.att.net>
To: Stefan li Rous <stefan at texas.net>
Origin of the name "Namron" (no shit, I was there)
In the very first days, before the Barony, before the Shire, before the
Insipid Shire, there was the Group. (AS 9) Included in the group were
the Fogels, who had a highschool age daughter. Daughter went to football
games as a cheerleader. (the importance of this will be revealed) the
cheerleaders occupied the far side of the stadium in those days, so as
to be better visible to the cameras in the pressbox. During the halftime
festivities, when the band was manuvering, the six tubaswould array
themselves in a row along the back line (facing the pressbox) with cloth
covers over the bells, each containing a letter, the combined effort
spelling NORMAN (while facing the pressbox). when the band turned to
play for the student seats, (facing away from the pressbox) the tubas
tended to turn in place, the covers now spelling NAMRON, and Daughter
being a bit of a whiner, insisted the group name be Namron, and the
adults gave in to shut her up, and the name stuck.
HL Charly the Bastard the Last Dworf in Ansteorra
Subject: Oldenfeld (Trimaris) name history
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 00:41:07 EDT
From: BastetKat at aol.com
To: stefan at texas.net
You may already know this one, but Oldenfeld is located in the city of
Tallahassee, Fl. Tallahassee is Indian for "Old fields", thus the translation
to old English "Oldenfeld". Further, we are located in Leon county, so of
course we chose a lion as our heraldry...
(Our Kingdom's triskele supposedly comes from the hurricane symbol, but I
can't verify that one!)
Lady Judith
Subject: Re: Oldenfeld (Trimaris) name history
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 15:05:36 EDT
From: BastetKat at aol.com
To: stefan at texas.net
Actually, I'm pretty sure about the Triskele. The name Trimaris
definitely refers to our penesular status, and the hurricane symbol is
basically a triskele. I learned this from Master Morric Haast, who has been
around in Trimaris forever.
In addition, our shire chose a couchant lion to represent our laid-back
manner...
In Service, Judith
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 21:52:29 -0400
From: Bonne <oftraquair at hotmail.com>
Subject: Where in Atlantia, was SC - My last word on Feast-o-crats
Buckston-on-Eno, Windmasters' Hill (Durham, NC)
Durham was built because of [the company of] Duke Tobacco, Duke Tobacco
was founded by James B. Duke = "Buck" Duke; therefore Buck's Town on the Eno (River). Cool, huh?
As for the derivation of Windmasters' Hill, it is something to do with men
trying out some flying contraption near the sea.
Bonne de Traquair
Subject: Re: SCA vanity license plates
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 98 03:23:50 MST
From: "sheydel at bellsouth.net" <sheydel at mail.bna.bellsouth.net>
To: "Mark.S Harris (rsve60)" <rsve60 at email.sps.mot.com>
> Any idea where the name of Glaedenfeld came from or what it means?
> Stefan li Rous
Glaedenfeld derives (I am told by Baron Akim Yaroslavich, our founding
member) from the Anglo-Saxon for "field of flowers". I was also told
there is a reference in Tolkien to the same term.
Your Obedient Servant,
Lord Edmund Cavendish
Shire of Glaedenfeld, Kingdom of Meridies
(Steve Heydel)
From: james koch <alchem at en.com>
Organization: alchem inc
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Place-names
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 00:39:57 -0400
> Where do we get the names of our Kindoms/baronies/shires/etc?
> Lord Erec L'Claire
"Pentwyvern" was named by a Ouija board, or so I am told.
Jim Koch(Gladius The Alchemist)
From: moondrgn at bga.com (Chris and Elisabeth Zakes)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Place-names
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:19:54 GMT
An orbiting mind control laser caused lorderec at aol.com (Lord Erec) to write:
>Where do we get the names of our Kindoms/baronies/shires/etc?
There is no one source. Usually the group makes up a name that pleases the majority of the folks there, run it past the herald's office to make sure it follows their rules, and then they go with it. Frequently, names are based on the mundane location of the group. The East Kingdom is on the east coast of the U.S.; the Middle Kingdom is midway between the East and West; Atenveldt, which started in Arizona, means "sun plains"; Ansteorra, which started in Texas, means "lonestar"; Trimaris means "three seas", it's is at the juncture of the Atlantic Ocean, the Carribbean and the Gulf of Mexico. Sometimes the names are puns or in-jokes. The barony of the Stargate is Houston Texas; Namron is Norman (Oklahoma) spelled backwards; the College of Grey Gargoyles is the University of Chicago (which has lots of gargoyles as decorative motifs on the buildings); Boise Idaho(potatoes) is the Barony of One Thousand Eyes; Des Moines Iowa iscalled Coeur d'Ennui (heart of boredom) etc.
-Tivar Moondragon
Ansteorra
C and E ZakesTivar Moondragon (Patience and Persistence)and Aethelyan Moondragon (Decadence is its own reward)moondrgn at bga.com
From: powers at cis.ohio-state.edu (william thomas powers)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Place-names
Date: 19 Apr 1999 13:43:01 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science
Well having named a shire; I chose one that I liked! I like the names having some sort of link to the area so I can remember where the heck they are; so when it came time to choose a name for the shire in Fort Smith I held my breath and turned blue until everyone else agreed to name "Smith Keep" (yes the fact that I am a blacksmith and that the shire was founded in my living room one New Year's eve with my wife as the first seneschale did make things easier...though the shire of Hangman's tree did suggest itself too)
wilelm the smith
From: Edouard d'Avignon <splatter at bigfoot.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Place-names
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:10:06 GMT
"Thescorre" is an anagram for "Rochester" in upstate NY
Edouard
BOB RAEF!
From: "M.Dwayne Herron & Anne R. Martens" <blackknight at erols.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Place-names
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 22:33:17 -0400
Organization: Silver Heron Industries
Lord Erec wrote:
> Where do we get the names of our Kindoms/baronies/shires/etc?
> Lord Erec L'Claire
When the now legendary Shire of Ashental (Geneseo, NY) was being named,it was originally to have been Achental. However it was rejected by the College of Heralds because there was a place called Achen in Germany,and 'tal' means 'valley of'. So we burned it to the ground (the letter,not the town) and we were registered as Ashental.
Diablu, Black Knight of the East
From: greycat at idt.net (Greycat Sharpclaw)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Place-names
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:43:32 GMT
There is an allegation that Lord Erec wrote:
> Where do we get the names of our Kindoms/baronies/shires/etc?
Depends on the mood of the naming meeting. I was there when Worcester, Mass. was named "Von Sosse" (German for "of sauce") because it was the Worcester-Shire. It's since been renamed...
Lord Emrys Cador
Barony of Settmour Swamp
East Kingdom
From: "Lyle H. Gray" <gray at cs.umass.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Place-names
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:13:23 -0400
Greycat Sharpclaw wrote:
>Depends on the mood of the naming meeting. I was there when
>Worcester, Mass. was named "Von Sosse" (German for "of sauce") because
>it was the Worcester-Shire.
It's since been renamed...Twice...
Current name is "Quintavia", meaning "five roads".
Lyle FitzWilliam
Bergental, East
From: Marcus MacFarlane <ClanLaird at HoTMaiL.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Place-names
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:30:53 GMT
Here in the Northern Wood of the East's Royal Forest of Rusted Woodlands, we made an attempt to go Incipient (since then we may become a Canton if the Barony polls pull through). Our Incipient Meetings met in the local Library and we got our hands on a Gaelic Dictionary and started thumbing through it while people started spouting Mundane and Scadian Features. We realized we were on the border of what was soon to be Aethelmearc with a branch of the Apalachian and Catskill Mountains on one border and Bear Mountain on the Hudson Border with a rolling valley in between. Realizing that we would be a border Shire we looked it up and 'Tearmann' came up, and with the surrounding Mountains we looked that up and got 'Cruachan.' Thus was born the Incipient Shire of Tearmann Cruachan.
SATIRE NOTE: Our Seneschal to be was none other than the Cheiftain Laird of Clan Campbell who perked up at this wonderful name when it was said. Turned out that 'Cruachan' is the Clan Campbell Battle Cry and as Cheiftain Laird of the Clan, he had no objection to the name. Strangely, he had nothing to do with looking up the name nor did he push anyone to vote for it.
Marcus MacFarlane
Cheiftain Laird of Clan MacFarlane
ClanLaird at HoTMaiL.com
From: "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant at indiana.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Place-names
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 02:33:07 -0500
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington
Lord Erec wrote:
> Thank you all for your replys. Interesting that there was no talk of period
> naming practices......
No one said it overtly, but there's plenty of period naming practices there. Geographical features (Middle Kingdom, Trimaris). Common in mundane world; look at Cleveland, Chunguo ("middle kingdom" aka China). Physical features (An Crosaire = The Crossroads, South Keep = the southernmost shire in Trimaris). Again, Cleveland, Des Plaines, GrandsTitons. Translations or modifications of existing names (Cleveland -->Cleftland, Tallahassee --> Oldenfleld). Trafalgar from Tarif al-Ghar. London from Londinium. Named for the founders or in honor of someone (Smith Shire as mentioned before, Mathom's Trove) Coopersville. Pennsylvania. Franklin Station. There are many perfectly period names out there. There are some weird mundane ones, too. My favorite is in N. California, Coalinga (pronounced koh LING uh). It was a stop on the railroad line,and was coaling stop A. Hence, coaling A, or Coalinga.
Effingham
From: moondrgn at bga.com (Chris and Elisabeth Zakes)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Place-names
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:30:31 GMT
An orbiting mind control laser caused Marcus MacFarlane <ClanLaird at HoTMaiL.com> to write:
>Here in the Northern Wood of the East's Royal Forest of Rusted Woodlands, we
>made an attempt to go Incipient (since then we may become a Canton if the
>Barony polls pull through).
>
>Out Incipient Meetings met in the local Library and we got our hands on a
>Gaelic Dictionary and started thumbing through it while people started
>spouting Mundane and Scadian Features.
One warning: this method can be dangerous, if you don't know the language, or run the name past someone who does. I live in Bryn Gwlad (Austin TX) which, according to the Welsh dictionary means "hill" and "country". In Welsh, however, the meaningis "the land of the unspecified, personified hills." (It *should* havebeen "Bryn Dir".)
-Tivar Moondragon
Ansteorra
From: hrjones at socrates.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Place-names
Date: 21 Apr 1999 17:46:10 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Chris and Elisabeth Zakes (moondrgn at bga.com) wrote:
: One warning: this method can be dangerous, if you don't know the
: language, or run the name past someone who does.
: I live in Bryn Gwlad (Austin TX) which, according to the Welsh
: dictionary means "hill" and "country". In Welsh, however, the meaning
: is "the land of the unspecified, personified hills." (It *should* have
: been "Bryn Dir".)
There are any number of constructions that could have had the idiomatic meaning "hill country". I'd tend to translate "Bryn Gwlad" more as "country hill", though.
Tangwystyl
*********************************************************
Heather Rose Jones hrjones at socrates.berkeley.edu
**********************************************************
From: "Christopher Straughn" <oxsnard at concentric.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Place-names
Date: 21 Apr 1999 16:27:15 PDT
There is an allegation that Lord Erec wrote:
> Where do we get the names of our Kindoms/baronies/shires/etc?
The shire of Oldenfeld in Trimaris was named after the town its located in: Tallahassee. It seems Tallahassee is Creek for Old Field and the founding membersthought/may have been right ??? that Oldenfeld was Middle English for oldfield.
Christoff
From: "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant at indiana.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Place-names
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:53:04 -0500
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington
Brian M. Scott wrote:
> Cleveland is named for Moses Cleaveland. <Middle Kingdom> does not
> strike me as a period place-name in that form, and it's not clear that
> <Trimaris> is, either.
Given on Cleveland. I thought it was a referral to the local cleft in the geography. As for middle kingdom, tell it to China (Chunguo ="middle kingdom") and Mediterranean ("Middle Earth!!!???") Sea. If it weren't English, it might sound better to our ears. Heck, most people I know say "Midrealm" anyway. As for Trimaris, how about "Cinque Ports"?
> > Physical features (An Crosaire = The Crossroads,
> > One would have to determine whether such a place-name is actually
> compatible with period Gaelic place-naming practice. I assumed that they had.
> > Translations or modifications of existing names (Cleveland -->
> > Cleftland,
> > <Cleftlands>, actually. Not a period place-name construction. Hey, it beats Rivendell...
> > Tallahassee --> Oldenfleld).
> > Is that <Oldenfield>? It would be better as <-feld> or, in late period
> <-field>.
No, its "feld." Tallahassee is the local (Seminole?) term for "the oldfields (where we used to live but don't live anymore)." Theparenthetical, I'm told, is the actual connotation of that particularword OLD, as opposed to the old-not-new OLD. (More than you want toknow, eh? I was the Oldenfeld herald for a while... Way after the group was established, however.)
Effingham
From: albion at holyrood.ed.ac.uk ( Andrew Casson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Place-names
Date: 22 Apr 1999 12:28:09 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University
Lord Erec wrote:
> Where do we get the names of our Kindoms/baronies/shires/etc?
It's a while since we did this, so my memory may be off, but...
Harpelestane:
har: cold (also a play on Haar, the usual name for sea-fog in these parts, but unfortunately an OOP borrowing from Dutch).
pele: castle, tower (Peel/Pel/Pele).
stane: stone, rock.Hence cold-castle-rock, with suggestions of sea-fog, a good descriptionof Edinburgh.
Wolfgang Adolphus Jager
Seneschal, Harpelestane
(Dominic Hunter, Edinburgh)
From: Sweetlady <sweetlady at my-dejanews.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Place-names
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 03:10:03 GMT
forlornh at aol.computation (ForlornH) wrote:
>When the now legendary Shire of Ashental (Geneseo, NY) was being named,
>it was originally to have been Achental. However it was rejected by the
>College of Heralds because there was a place called Achen in Germany,
>and 'tal' means 'valley of'. So we burned it to the ground (the letter,
>not the town) and we were registered as Ashental.
When the Utica/ Rome NY group wanted to split from the Barony of Delftwood(Syracuse, NY) people wanted to show a connection with the Barony and also aconnection with Utica/ Rome. So it was decided on Copper (RevereWare Headquarters in Rome) and Tree (tree - wood) --- Shire of Coppertree. I know this isn't period but there were several "older" SCAdians working on this name.IMHO, I would think that Orion's Gate (army base Ft. Drum, Watertown, NY) is so called because Orion was a warrior and Watertown is on the St. Lawrence Seaway (Gate-way to the Sea).
Sweetlady
From: "Harold D Sherman" <HALFRED at prodigy.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Place-names
Date: 25 Apr 1999 17:42:13 GMT
As one of the founding members concerned, (Echegaray of Shadow Valley atthe time), I confess to this. The research involved was taking the name ofone my favorite novelists, Zoe Oldenbourg, and attempting to convert it tomean "Old Field". Clearly not the best method, but I'd love to know if Icame at all close to a period construction.
Christopher Straughn <oxsnard at concentric.net> wrote:
<SNIP>
> The shire of Oldenfeld in Trimaris was named after the town its located in:
> Tallahassee.
> It seems Tallahassee is Creek for Old Field and the founding members
> thought/may have been right ??? that Oldenfeld was Middle English for old
> field.
> Christoff
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Florilegium files for May]
Date: Tue, 11 May 99 19:51:36 MST
From: martian at iwvisp.com
To: "Mark.S Harris (rsve60)" <rsve60 at email.sps.mot.com>
>Lord Stefan li Rous
>
>PS: What is the story behind the Naevehjem name? I'd love a message
>on it's origins and/or meanings for my placenames-msg file. I'm
>also curious about Neb Kaires Tevesu. What culture and time is it
>from? Japanese? Middle Eastern?
We're based in a "company town" for the Naval Air
Warfare Center, China Lake, where we develop and
test weapons and aircraft for the Navy. We wanted
the name Nibelheim (where small dark elves make
weapons of destruction), but couldn’t get it passed
because it's a "real" place. So linguists among us
searched other Norse sources and came up with
Naevehjem (Fist Home)...We're called the Navy
Hamsters by the Barony of Dun Or (Golden Tower)
down South of us...We call them the Dun Oreos.
Kaires is an ancient Egyptian name. Neb means
Lord in that language...Tevesu means "son of Thebes."
Subject: Meaning of Bonwicke
Date: Tue, 08 Jun 99 09:35:08 MST
From: Bjorn Lochlannac <bjorn at odsy.net>
To: "Mark.S Harris (rsve60)" <rsve60 at email.sps.mot.com>
Greetings Lord Stefan,
My understanding on the meaning of the name Bonwicke is that it means Good
Place.
Bon being French for good and Wicke being Saxon for place.
Bjorn Lochlannac
Herald for the Barony of Bonwicke
Subject: Place names
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 03:48:32 EDT
From: DUCORBEAU at aol.com
To: stefan at texas.net
The now defunct Canton of Caldera Keep in the Barony of ltavia, Kingdom of
Caid was so named because it was founded in the jacuzzi at the apartment of
the first Senescal of the canton, and the jacuzzi water was hot enough to
remind us of the Caldera or Cauldron of a volcano.
Lady Morgaine FitzStephen
Founding member and first Exchequer
of Caldera Keep
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 11:41:28 -0400
From: Lisa.Crumbley at kctcs.net
To: stefan at texas.net
** I saw this section of your placenames portion of the Florilegium. It is
quite out of date. I guess the stories aren't though.
The Shire of Dragonsmark is still active in the Lexington area. The
college version (on the University of Kentucky's campus) is Dragon's
Crossing.
There is another Kentucky shire called Aurea Ripae it is located in
Owensboro and governs part of the Middle and all of the Western part of the
state. Aurea Ripae is latin for Yellow Banks, which is what Owensboro was
originally named. We even pull more Kentucky history into our device. The
indians called Kentucky the Dark Bloody Ground, due to all the blood that
had been shed here during various wars. Our device has the river flanked by
gold banks surrounded by a blood red background.
Erinn of Aurea Ripae
(mka Lisa Crumbley)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 00:31:44 EDT
From: <LadyDarcy at aol.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Neat Shire Names!
ravenleaf at juno.com writes:
<<
Greetings, especially to Rhianwen!
Where is this place? Has a lovely name! What does it mean?
> East Kingdom; Shire Coill Tuar
-Caro
>>
::grins and feels all special because she was "singled" out...::;
I asked one of my shire-mates if she knew what it meant, since I do not...
She believes it to be something along the lines of "Wooded Meadow"..but isn't
exactly certain.
Shire Coill Tuar is located in Newburgh, NY.... 45 minutes north of west
point, 60 miles north of NYC, 1.5 hours south of Albany and ten minutes from
either Poughkeepsie or Beacon! ::grins::
Rhianwen
Subject: Re: [SCA-CHR] How to use a deputy?
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 22:00:39 MST
From: Howard & Jennie Cosham <IZZYANDHAVELYARD at prodigy.net>
To: sca-chroniclers at midrealm.org
<snip>
I'm actually Vard's neighbor from two Baronies north (Bright Hills, the
Baltimore Area), and I have the same problem. I actually have a deputy,
but she lives in our canton, Spiaggia Levantina, on the Eastern Shore of
Maryland. (That's the peninsula on the east side of the Chesapeake Bay,
by the way. So Spiaggia Levantina means "The Eastern Shore" in
Italian.)
Izzie (Baroness Isabel of Biconyll)
Chronicler, Barony of the Bright Hills
Subject: Spiaggia Levantina
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 21:05:44 -0400
From: Howard & Jennie Cosham <IZZYANDHAVELYARD at prodigy.net>
To: stefan at texas.net
Dear Lord Stefan,
Hi! Glad somebody was interested in that little aside. I wondered
about that when I wrote it.
Several members of the group who formed the Canton had Italian
personas. One of the members had an Italian grandmother, and asked her
how to say "The Eastern Shore." He made sure it wasn't "The East Coast"
or "The East Bank" or something, as that wouldn't be quite right.
As an aside, many members of Atlantia (in which Kingdom we live) have
taken to calling it "Spaghetti Lasagne" since they have trouble
pronouncing it.
Thanks for your efforts,
Izzie
Subject: Placenames
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 12:14:25 -0500
From: Wes Will <wwill at siu.edu>
To: stefan at texas.net
I know of the evolution of 2 names, being involved in their creation to a greater or lesser extent, and at least some of a third.
1) The Shire of Perilous Journey in the Kingdom (then Principality) of Drachenwald.
Perilous Journey was named because of it's location inside then-Communist East Germany. To approach the city by land, you had to pass through one of a very few checkpoints at the East - West border, present appropriate paperwork, and then drive through East Germany on a specific road; which one depended upon your starting point at the border. If you made any wrong turns on the way, well, you were liable to be arrested as a spy and detained for awhile. If you made the trip in too short a time, the Allied Forces guards at the West Berlin end stamped your papers, wrote you a speeding ticket, and then passed you on into the city. Too long a time, and they sent out search vehicles to patrol up and down the road until they either found you, or the East German government reported your incarceration somewhere, usually in some remote village a long way from where you were supposed to be.
By air, the trip is even more fraught with peril. There were three "Access Corridors" extending across East German airspace from Berlin to West Germany. Flights to the Divided City were scheduled in advance by a committee in Berlin, and their exact particulars were approved. If an aircraft leaving from either end of a designated corridor were to stray out of the confines of that protected space, they were liable to be shot down or forced to land by East German or Soviet fighter aircraft. Frequently, MiGs buzzed by our transport planes while we were in transit into or out of the city. It could get pretty hairy at times because occasionally they would fly close enough to the C-130 or C-141 to get a good look at the centerfold pictures that the pilots would hold against the cockpit windows.....
All in all, it could get to be quite the Perilous Journey.
2) The Shire of Eternal Wind, Misawa Air Base, northern Japan, Barony of the Far West, West Kingdom. Currently in abeyance due to lack of members and officers. Sigh.
I started that Shire in 1984, so I would have some other Mediaevalists to play with during my tour in the Great White North. (Most folks think the tropical Okinawan jungle is what Japan looks like. As a matter of fact, in large part it's quite a cold and snowy place! At Misawa, we averaged 12 feet of snow a year, and one year we almost doubled that.)
After a protracted series of discussions, we convinced the base commander and weapons safety officer that heavy combat SCA-style was less likely to produce injuries than playing football. (I armoured up, handed the base team quarterback a hunk of rattan - he had to get someone to hold his crutches, since he had torn his knee about half off in a game the previous Sunday - and let him whack at me awhile....)
Once that battle was over, we had to choose a name. Before getting official permission, it didn't seem worthwhile to think of a name which might be wasted effort anyway, so we just called ourselves by the epithet we were known by to most of the base and local Japanese population: "those mediaeval nuts". After a long period of dithering over several choices, we submitted "Three Swamps" (after the city, Misawa, which reportedly means "3 Swamps"). Shortly, the West Kingdom Herald informed us that "Three Swamps" wouldn't fly because of a conflict with "Three Rivers".
Undaunted, we attempted to get "Shire of Divine Wind" through the system, but it came back in less than 2 months; they didn't find a Kami Kaze Shire at all funny for some reason. So, we bowed to the inevitable and switched to "Eternal Wind", which passed through the system without a hitch. Since there was always a stiff breeze at 45F or less coming off of the Northern Pacific around those parts, it seemed to fit fairly well, too.
We thought Kami Kaze was a better match, though, since a small hunk of Siberia was only a couple of stone-throws away, and indeed you could see some of the former Soviet-controlled Kuryl Islands from one of our remote antenna sites. We considered ourselves a "lunch-break" stop on any Soviet contingent's way to the rest of the hemisphere if hostilities broke out. Anybody who would go or stay there had to be a bit looney, right?
3) Shire of Far Reaches, the Midrealm.
This is my current home Shire, and the evolution of it's name is easy. It's simply a descriptive, and an accurate one, too.
When the Shire was founded in the late 70's, there were no groups at all less than 5 or 6 hours' drive away. By the time it was officially named in 1981, there were a few groups a touch closer, but it was still quite the haul to an event.
Far Reaches is located in the hinterlands, the tail-end of Illinois, down in the corner of Meridies, the Middle Kingdom, and Calontir. It's a LONG way from here to ANYTHING in the "mainstream" of the Midrealm. There are no peers (of any sort), nobody of any great "importance" ever came here or comes from here. Pretty much no-one knows who we are or what we do, if they even know that we exist at all. Almost nobody comes this far into the boondocks unless they're visiting a personal friend.
We're the farthest you can go away from anything that "counts" (or dukes or laurels or pelicans or knights) in the Midrealm, and still say you're in the Midrealm. Therfore, "Far Reaches". Simple, eh?
Eoin Caimbeul
Currently of the Shire of Far Reaches, The Midrealm.
Once of Perilous Journey, Drachenwald,
and also formerly of Divine Wind, Kingdom of the West
(among many other places.....)
MKA Wes Will
Formerly "Staff Sergeant Will, USAF",
now just another computer geek at SIU Carbondale.
Subject: RE: wanted: stories about SCA placenames
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 12:25:03 -0500
From: "Denise Horton" <jacinth at mail.ev1.net>
To: <stefan at texas.net>
Stefan,
I have been to your site a number of times, and find something new each
time I look... this is no exception; the page on SCA placenames was
pretty interesting!
Funny enough, we have just celebrated an anniversary in Raven's Fort,
and there has been much mulling over our history.
Original proposed name: Tallen Trod
Interim name: Ames Dunam (they tried Ames Brigadoon, but that didn't
go over with the College of Heralds) ;)
Final Name: Raven's Fort
In Huntsville, the favored son is General Sam Houston. Now Sam was
friends with the indians, and to them he was known as the Raven. Thus,
we have Raven's Fort.
As I wrack my brain, I recall a few other tidbits... our device:
Per fess embattled argent and gules, a raven close to sinister sable
and a plate within a laurel wreath Or.
Basically a red crenelated wall with a hole in it, and a raven floating
above it. The infamous "Hole in the Wall" as it were. I almost can
picture parting the bushes (laurel wreath) to get in... although that
part is my imagination and not substantiated by any of the stories (not
to mention that we are supposed to have a wreath, and that was probably
the most aestetic place to put it). There's probably more to this
story....
Our supporters: A red bull... signifying the cattle that live on our
permanent site, and a black frog... which goes back many years to the
Ansteorran/Outlandish War, where the warfrogs made an appearance (where
the fighters were determined "not to croak").
The ground/base of the acheivement: A trilithion... like the ones of
the stone circle at our site.
Lady Jacinth de Warwick
Barony of Raven's Fort
Kingdom of Ansteorra
From: "Mark.S Harris" <rsve60 at email.sps.mot.com>
To: <sca-chroniclers at midrealm.org>
Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 10:57 AM
Subject: [SCA-CHR] wanted: stories behind SCA placenames
> As an aside, Baroniess Isabel wrote:
> > I'm actually Vard's neighbor from two Baronies north (Bright Hills, the
> > Baltimore Area), and I have the same problem. I actually have a deputy,
> > but she lives in our canton, Spiaggia Levantina, on the Eastern Shore of
> > Maryland. (That's the peninsula on the east side of the Chesapeake Bay,
> > by the way. So Spiaggia Levantina means "The Eastern Shore" in
> > Italian.)
Except that Levantina is not the Italian word for "eastern"....
OK.... Our first Canton meeting was the first meeting after the merger of
Flaming Forge and Dragonford. There was much discussion of what should be
the name of the new entity.. My suggestion of Dragon Forge was eventually
accepted by all.
Ivanor of Sighty Crag, Chronicler, Barony of Dragonship Haven, Pursuivant,
Canton of Dragon Forge.
Carolyn Boselli, Host, SCAdians on Delphi (delphi.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 10:37:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff B <marcocaprioli at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: SC - My first attempt at hyppocras
To: Stefan li Rous <stefan at texas.net>
The name Stan Wyrm, that of my shire, is the old English for <stone
dragon>, the shire having gained the name from the preponderance of
dinosaurs and other fossils in the area, even though fossils were
thought in period to be the places where lightning had struck the
ground.
Marcello
=====
Marcello Caprioli Jeff Gdog Gdo
Shire of Stan Wyrm Great Falls MT
Artemisia
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 06:38:05 MST
From: Marcus Burnham <oburnham at NICKEL.LAURENTIAN.CA>
Subject: SCA Place Names
To: "Mark.S Harris (rsve60)" <rsve60 at email.sps.mot.com>
The Shire of Brennisteinn Vatn (mka Sudbury, Ontario) is Icelandic for "sulphurous lakes" or "sulphurous pools". It was taken because Sudbury is a major centre for nickel mining and smelting. For a long time the area was desolated by the sulphurous fumes produced by the smelting process and it is still possible to see the molten slag being poured in fuming incandescent rivulets some nights.
Hope that does not put anyone off visiting us,
Wilfrid.
Wilfrid of Sweflingham Never fire at Wil!!
Subject: Re[2]: SC - Russian dishes
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:24:51 -0500
From: Chip <jallen at multipro.com>
To: Stefan li Rous <stefan at texas.net>
> I'm also curious about your "Shire of Easaraigh". Do you know which
> language that is in? I might guess Scottish.
Exactly. It is in Scots Gaelic.
> And do you know what it means or any of the history behind it's
> selection?
It means "the pool at the base of the waterfall" which are plentiful
within the borders of our shire. It's history takes a little
explanation. Our shire used to be named Ezaret (pronounced
EZ-uh-ray). Origins for this name are unknown to me. As the result
of some unfortunate political strife (before I joined, I'm happy to
say) the group self-destructed. One of the few surviving members (now
our Seneschal) speaks many languages, among them Scots Gaelic. In his
search for a new name for the shire, he happened upon Easaraigh
(pronounced Essary). Being very similar (and a real word), it stuck.
The transition is still being made (we have many people using the new
spelling, but the old pronunciation). We just hosted a moderately
successful event, so hopefully our name will be spread further.
Thankfully, almost everyone in our admittedly small group are friends
outside the group as well. Political grief is almost nonexistent for
us. We often use the phrase 'New name, new people, new shire'.
______________________________________________________________________
Iyad ibn Bisharo, Shire of Easaraigh, Kingdom of Meridies
Chip Allen, Cookeville, TN
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 13:52:28 MST
From: Todd Sumpter <sumpter at k-town.de>
Subject: RE: [SCA-CHR] copies of Chroniclers Handbook?
To: "Mark.S Harris (rsve60)" <rsve60 at email.sps.mot.com>
Greetings Lord Stefan li Rous,
Our fair shire is located on the edge of the beautiful Rein River
Valley, in Kaiserslautern Germany. Our name, which is German,
Veilburgen means many castles, which there are many 'burgs' and
'Schloss' located here either in ruin or rebuilt to their former glory.
Our kingdom is known as Drachenwald, "Dragon Forest". This upcoming
weekend we are attending an event that is being held in a winery and
former castle. We are now looking at another castle to hold a shire
event in February. What a grand event it is, when held in a castle that
is as old as our SCA period era.
At the upcoming event this weekend, there shall be told the old
stories of our Kingdom, if I find out where exactly our shire and
kingdom names come from, I shall happily inform you post haste!
In Service to Vielburgen, Drachenwald
Chronicler of Auf die Burgen
Calibrid of the Horse
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 11:02:12 MST
From: DUNHAM Patricia R <Patricia.R.DUNHAM at ci.eugene.or.us>
Subject: RE: wanted: stories behind SCA placenames
To: "Mark.S Harris (rsve60)" <rsve60 at email.sps.mot.com>
Stefan, here are a couple of corrections/additions to Shara's information
about AnTir place names, from back in '91...
...
Adiantum: ... part of the botanical name of the founding baroness's favorite
PLANT - the maidenhair fern, very typical of this area (writing from
Adiantum, in 1999) Baronial device is a two-headed bear in a laurel wreath
-- when the heralds rejected the initial submission of a "banana slug
rampant" (native fauna), they tried again with a "joke" submission based on
a two-headed teddy bear, mascot of another of the founders, and THAT the
heralds liked!
Three Mountains: originally tried to register as "The Barony of the
Mountains" but heralds rejected as too general. So the baron looked out his
window and saw three mountains (Mt Hood in OR, St Helens and Adams in
Washington). Resubmitted as "Three Mountains"
and it passed. (Known recently as "2 1/2 Mountains" after St. Helens
erupted...)
...
Wastekeep: Hanford Washington - site of mundane nuclear waste facility
...
Dragon's Lair: Bremerton Washington, home of US Naval "dragons", esp. those
that go under the water
Seagirt: Victoria BC -- definitely on an island, so "sea-girt"; had to get a
dispensation from "tre-girt-sea"!
...
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 22:18:45 MST
From: "Shannon D. Duncan" <odhran at arkay.net>
Subject: Re: Shire of Easaraigh
To: "Mark.S Harris (rsve60)" <rsve60 at email.sps.mot.com>
> > Subject: Re[2]: SC - Russian dishes
> > Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:24:51 -0500
> > From: Chip <jallen at multipro.com>
> > To: Stefan li Rous <stefan at texas.net>
> >
> > > I'm also curious about your "Shire of Easaraigh". Do you know which
> > > language that is in? I might guess Scottish.
> >
> > Exactly. It is in Scots Gaelic.
> >
> > > And do you know what it means or any of the history behind it's
> > > selection?
> >
> > It means "the pool at the base of the waterfall" which are plentiful
> > within the borders of our shire. It's history takes a little
> > explanation. Our shire used to be named Ezaret (pronounced
> > EZ-uh-ray). Origins for this name are unknown to me.
However, they are not unknown to me and it requires a bit *more*
explanation than is provided here by my honorable friend, Iyad ibn
Bisharo. "Ezaret" was the mispronounciation of "easaraigh"--which the
original founders had thought was French. It remained unchallenged from
'82 until '99, when I took the original Gaelic, found the documentation
and petitioned our Herald to officially submit it.
> > As the result
> > of some unfortunate political strife (before I joined, I'm happy to
> > say) the group self-destructed. One of the few surviving members (now
> > our Seneschal) speaks many languages, among them Scots Gaelic. In his
> > search for a new name for the shire, he happened upon Easaraigh
> > (pronounced Essary).
Concerning the political strife, I was not here during it--merely the
confidant of the main two "combatants(?)". Having got both their sides
(numerous times), then having got a few more accounts with a crowbar and
lots of elbow grease out of spectators that were no longer playing, but
were still living in Cookeville, I pieced together what happened. It did
self-destruct, but I wasn't there.
> > Being very similar (and a real word), it stuck.
> > The transition is still being made (we have many people using the new
> > spelling, but the old pronunciation). We just hosted a moderately
> > successful event, so hopefully our name will be spread further.
> > Thankfully, almost everyone in our admittedly small group are friends
> > outside the group as well.
The transition is indeed still being made, but I don't expect it will ever
fully stick. As for the spread of the name, that will happen as it may, I
hope.
> > Political grief is almost nonexistent for
> > us. We often use the phrase 'New name, new people, new shire'.
This is an oversimplification. There is little political grief where the
populace (made up of mostly new people--this much is accurate from
above) can see it, but it most certainly is there. It's just not as
evident, much to my chagrin. I would like to eradicate it--however, that
would mean eradicating memberships as well. No way. The politics that do
exist can be controlled--with enough presence of mind and intestinal
fortitude.
> > Iyad ibn Bisharo, Shire of Easaraigh, Kingdom of Meridies
> > Chip Allen, Cookeville, TN
> > jallen at multipro.com
*neigh* I do speak Scottish Gaelic, as well as pieces of several others,
but I'm not as much of a language god as Chip portrayed me. I merely do
what I can to make sure people understand that getting along is paramount
in the struggle to keep our Shire together and growing and any hindrance
to this end...well, let's just say I'm not having any of that.
If you have any other questions, let me know and I'll try to answer them.
I remain the humble servant of Meridies and Her Crown,
Odhran mac an Aba,
Fear-riaghlaidh na h-Easaraigh,
Rioghnachd Mheiridies
mka
Shannon D. Duncan,
Seneschal of Easaraigh,
Kingdom of Meridies
From: Conallwolf at aol.com
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 07:05:26 EST
Subject: Re: Asking Permission
To: stefan at texas.net
In 1992 the shire was known as "Ezaret" (Ez-u-ray), which I believe I was
told was French and having to something to do with the sun and/or its rays.
I left the shire for a few years and wandered abroad, and was told that
shortly before I returned in Dec. of '98 that the name had been changed to
"Easaraigh" (Essary) which is similar, but more reflected the largely Celtic
makeup of the local populace. Easaraigh is Scottish Gaelic for "the pool of
water at the bottom of a falls", or so I'm told by our local scholars of
language. This is especially appropriate as there are a great number of
waterfalls around this region, and in fact our area is known for such
scenery. Our central town is located in middle Tennessee on the western edge
of the Cumberland Plateau (or Great Meridian Plateau, if you prefer), where
rolling hills and farmlands rise into the mountains. Hope this is helpful.
Conall mac Dubhdara
Hospitallar for the Shire of Easaraigh
Kingdom of Meridies
William C. Russell
Cookeville, TN
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 13:29:52 EDT
From: CBlackwill at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Honeycomb (confectionary) - question to the list
bsusan at corp.earthlink.net writes:
> And what city do you live in Balthazar?
>
> Eleanor
Bakersfield, California. The armpit of the Western World. Our city motto
should have been: "Bakersfield...Where Lizards come to Die."
Balthazar of Blackmoor
(just as a point of reference...'Blackmoor' is my personal in-joke, and
relates to the forests of black oil rigs which spot the landscape in my area.
Our Shire was once known as Darkwell...we changed it to Wintermist because
of all of the dense, impermeable fog we get for about 3 months out of the
year. Just FYI)
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 08:27:20 -0600
To: stefan at texas.net
From: Joan Nicholson <gryphon at carlsbadnm.com>
Subject: Re: SC - placenames
Do you have the Shire of Caer Mithin Halle? It was named the "Castle of
the Hidden Halls" after Carlsbad Caverns some twenty miles south of here.
Prydwen
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 09:54:56 -0600
To: stefan at texas.net
From: Joan Nicholson <gryphon at carlsbadnm.com>
Subject: Re: SC - placenames
>What language is this in? Middle English? Gaelic?
> Stefan
Derivations are: "Caer" Welsh for "castle/fort"; "Mithin" is Middle
English(Saxon) for hidden/concealed; "Halle" is the Middle English for
"hall." Name and device are registered and have been for years. I was the
founding seneschal.
Prydwen
From: "Phil Anderson" <urizen at clear.net.nz>
To: stefan at texas.net
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 22:14:07 +1200
Subject: Re: SC - placenames
From my Southron Gaard pages
(http://www.spis.co.nz/phil/about.htm):
"Southron Gaard" is generally said to mean "Southern
Guard/Guardian/Guardpost". The name is reflected in the tower on
the barony's arms, the name of its newsletter (From the Tower) and
the title of its herald (Tour d' Or, or Golden Tower). It is not clear
precisely why the name was chosen; there may be a connection
with the fact that "Caid" is said to mean "fortress" in Arabic. It has
been pointed out that the Barony (then Province) of Nordwache,
established the year before Southron Gaard, has a name meaning
"North Guard", and the arms of several other Caidan groups feature
towers.
However, the name dates from very early on (prior to September
1982) and, given the very limited contact with central Caid, it's not
clear who would have known of these things at that time. An
alternative explanation, given by Thorvald Wulfaersson in an article
in the Tenth Anniversary (May/Jun '92) issue of FTT, is as follows:
"Of the naming I could tell. How many and lyrical were the names
proposed, but finally in Norse style was chosen the simplest. We
called Byzantium "Micklegard", the Big City. We would call
ourselves Southrongaard, the Southern City."
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 09:11:46 -0400
From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler at chesapeake.net>
Subject: Re: SC - placenames--OT
Our barony is Dun Carraig, which is Scots Gaelic for stone or hill fort. We
chose the name because Calvert County, where many of us reside, is composed of a
number of hills and cliffs, particularly Calvert Cliffs, an ancient repository of marine life from several prehistoric epocs...and, more recently, the site of a nuclear power plant! Our arms include a cross bottony (the one with three little buds on the end of each arm), and are red and white. The Maryland state arms include a cross bottony on a quartered field of red and white, the cross being counterchanged. This relates to the fact that the counties that comprise our barony were the first areas that were settled by Europeans in Maryland.
Kiri
From: Collette <collette at impulse.net>
To: "'stefan at texas.net'" <stefan at texas.net>
Subject: RE: Permission please
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:21:34 -0700
I have heard that our Shire's name comes from the fact that the surrounding
hills are composed mostly of diatomaceous earth. Carreg Wen is Welsh for
White Rock and fossilized diatoms are white. Now that you have raised the
question I shall do some digging (ahem!) and try to find out the story
behind the naming. This group just had its 17th anniversary and I have
been a part of the group for the past ten years, so I was not privy to the
decisions that led us to our name. I believe I shall have to track down
founding members and quiz them as to why we have the name we do. It will
make a good "investigative article" for our newsletter. When I have the
full story I will send you a copy.
Lady Collette Vittraria
Chronicler for the Shire of Carreg Wen
mka Collette
Christel Illusions
Fine Art Glass Etching & Stained Glass
collette at impulse.net
Subject: stuff :)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:11:17 -0700
From: Claire Galibois <galibois at ualberta.ca>
To: stefan at texas.net
A note for the Florilegium. I was talking to one of the "old" SCA
members in my area, and asked her about the history of the name
'Veraquilon.' Apparently the original name was Aquilon (North wind),
and the papers were filed with that name, but there were hold-ups. I
don't know how the process works, but the papers were mailed in to
the appropriate place and a few years later the name still hadn't
been approved. Then another (canton?) took the name, and had it
approved while ours was still in the works. So rather than lose the
name entirely, the members at the time simply changed it to
"VERaquilon" or "TRUE North wind."
Genevieve
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:04:45 -0700
To: stefan at texas.net
From: Claire Galibois <galibois at ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: stuff :)
>What kind of group is this currently? A shire? A barony? And where?
>The name is not that familar to me, but then I mainly know of the
>big baronies in other kingdoms.
>
> Stefan
The other group (Aquilon) went belly-up three years later. After
Veraquilon was approved, though...
Veraquilon is a canton of(?in?) the barony of Borealis, in the
principality of Avacal. Edmonton area, mundanely. Borealis covers
most of northern Alberta.
Genevieve
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Elfsea
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 03:02:54 -0500
From: "Stephen Macthomas" <macthomas at ev1.net>
To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
Aerin, I believe you're thinking of Fyreamptewealde, the original name of
the Canton of Gate's Edge. It means "fire ant mound" in Old English, IIRC.
(Whether my memory serves or not, it's plain to see why the name changed.)
Stephen Macthomas
Gate's Edge
Subject: [Ansteorra] Groups Original Names
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 11:23:28 -0500
From: Burke McCrory <bmccrory at oktax.state.ok.us>
To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
>While we're on the subject of original names for our local branches, I'd
>love to hear about others that went through some name changes during their
>history, as well as what the names mean. I know that Bryn Gwlad was not
>always Bryn Gwlad, for example ... <grin>
>
>Stephen Macthomas
>Gate's Edge
Well here in the North I know of several,
Wiesenfeuer was originally Ebonfeuer (Black Fire)
Moonschadowe was Mona Sceaduw (which is Moon Shadow in Old English)
Sir Burke
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Groups Original Names
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 11:47:38 -0500
From: "David R. Hoffpauir" <env_drh at shsu.edu>
To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
Ravens Fort had two names:
Tallen Trod (tall tree)
Ames Dunham (beats me, just remember there was a cross cultural mix in words
that the heralds wouldn't pass)
For a definitive answer ask Michael of Twin Cedars (SCA membership #1500).
He's been in Ravens Fort since the last ice age, I think.
dsd
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Elfsea
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 10:50:48 -0500
From: Darius and Monica <dmriney at earthlink.net>
To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
While I was Herald in Elfsea I chanced across the Petition to raise said group
to Baronial Status, the name is describe there to derive from the number of
small lakes in the area so "Elf" for small or diminutive and "Sea" for all
the lakes.
Darius
Rhonda Hays wrote:
> Some time ago, there was a discussion on our local list about traditions. I
> recall from that one of the reasons why Elfsea is so named is because Fort
> Worth some of the surrounding areas of Tarrant county sit on what was once
> under water. Fossil Creek is an example of what you can dig up around here.
> We live in NE Parker County, next to Tarrant and have a "drop off" which
> runs the length of our six acres. We have found all sorts of shells, from
> the small ones to some rather large (6" wide") ones, clearly all from
> under the water.
>
> Our overly large ponds we like to call lakes are mostly the result of the
> Corps of Engineers dealing with the Trinity River, and one rather flood
> prone creek.
>
> Where the "Elf" part of that came in, I don't recall.
>
> Lady Medb Liath
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Groups Original Names
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 13:06:02 -0500
From: "kdw" <kdw at ztel.com>
To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
David, I was at the populace/household meeting on the night we chose to go
with raven's fort..
here goes..
I was 8 years old, we had been in Ames Dunham for just under two years. My
mother or Daffyad was the schen. at the time ( don't remember who) AD had
been submitted to the College but was turned down due to the fact that the
words are two different lang. Someone smarted off and said why don't we
just use the English form then... everyone agreed and it was so decided and
off to pizza hut we went...
Kyrstyn
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Elfsea
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 20:49:52 -0500
From: Candace/Elyssa <elyssa99 at swbell.net>
To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
If I remember correctly, Adler and Crystalline (two of the founding members
of Elfsea) once told me that Elfsea was originally called Elvesmere (I am sure
I spelled it wrong) which at some point became Elfsea and was so named because
of the many lakes in the area (man made or otherwise) They were like mini seas
hince the name Elfsea. Elf meaning small and sea an acronym for the lakes.
I hope this helps. My ex Sir Lance has also confirmed this story.
Elyssa
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Elfsea
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 22:37:24 -0500
From: knotwork at juno.com
To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
OK, here's a bit of name history for our group here in Abilene. At least
three attempts were made to start a group here. I don't know much about
the first, but I was here for the second and third tries. In the late
'80s, we tried to form a group, and wanted to call it "Utdaar," because
we felt really isolated -- i.e. "out there." Our resident Medieval
scholar decided the pun wasn't appropriate, so he found a word with
similar meaning and we dubbed the group "Daarginds." For reasons better
not explored here, the group failed to thrive and eventually the
incipient shire of Daarginds was dissolved. Fortunately, the third
attempt was the charm, and Mendersham was formed. The name is a play on
"Tailor Town" because Abilene is located in Taylor County. Our
newsletter is called "The Seamy Side," our local service award is the
Silver Needle, and our device is a semi of needles on a blue background,
all in keeping with the theme.
I am way behind on my e-mail, but if it hasn't already been told, the
naming woes of the group in San Angelo is also very interesting, but
would best be told by one of their own.
HE Joanna Montgomery
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Elfsea & group histories
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 01:04:25 -0500
From: "Aunt Dwen" <auntdwen at us.inter.net>
To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
Greetings from Baroness Ceridwen:
I've been enjoying the thread about the history behind names for groups
in this fair land. As we fast approach another coronation, it seems like a
good time to review the history of Ansteorra and her many local traditions.
I offer this rememberance of the formation of the Shire of the Wastelands
for your amusement.
The Shire of the Wastelands (Enid/Fairview, OK) was formed in Spring of
1993. The original intention was to become a Canton of the Barony of
Wiesenfeuer, but since our borders were not contiguous, we were advised by
the BOD and the Crown that we had to become a Shire. The name "Wastelands"
is based on a cartoon of the late Master William Blackfox and the perception
that northwest Oklahoma is somewhat...barren.
At the time the Shire of Wiesenfeuer began its quest to become a Barony,
HL. Malaki was its seneschal. In a conversation with then Crown Mikael of
Monmouthshire, Malaki suggested the boundaries of the barony include all
territory west of I-35 and north of I-40 (basically the northwest quadrant
of OK). While, for obvious reasons, this did not come to pass, Master
Blackfox immortalized the exchange in a cartoon with the punchline of, "A
Waste is a terrible thing to mind."
The populace of the Incipient Shire of the Wastelands, knowing full well
that we grow the wheat that feeds the world, embraced the concept of wheat
for our device (three crossed golden shafts of wheat on a blue field). The
Gleaner became the name for our newsletter in honor of all the huge
"Gleaner" combines that come through here on harvest. Baron Don James
Navarre found a sickle which became the stand for our Shire's device, and
for many years our Arts and Sciences competition was "Wheat in Any Medium."
Baroness Ceridwen Tir Gwastraff
House Wizard's Keep
Chronicler of the Wastelands
Subject: Re: Rokkehealden, why? Where from?
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 12:03:43 -0500 (CDT)
From: James Mcadams <jmcadams at interaccess.com>
To: Nicolas Steenhout <vavroom at bmee.net>
CC: "Mark.S Harris (rsve60)" <mark.s.harris at motorola.com>, jmcadams at interaccess.com
According to Elaine, "Rokkehealdon" is a Gaelic term for
"Stone Hold", or Stone Keep, etc. I know that one of the early
members was Kull of Stonehold, and a little bit of checking in an
English-Gaelic dictionary shows that Rok and Dun can translate as
"Rock" and "Fortress" respectively.
Xavier
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim McAdams | Do,
jmcadams at interaccess.com | or Do Not.
630-859-6902 | There is no "Try". - Yoda
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Linda Kelley-Nordlund" <lakotaginger at hotmail.com>
To: stefan at texas.net
Subject: Re: Your shire's name
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 00:07:46 -0600
>This is the first time I've heard of your Shire. Do you know what the
>name came from? Or what it is supposed to stand for or why it was
>picked?
> Stefan
Yes, the name is German. It means Eagles water. We have a very large body
of water here and eagle statuaries. We are located in the middle of the
Outlands with the largest land mass in our Kingdom at this time. We are
trying to help others in the further part of our Shire to form their own
Shire. Best of everything, and enjoy your birthday with good friends.
Lady Catelin O'Kelley
(Linda Kelley-Nordlund)
Shire of Aarquelle
Subject: Dun Carraig heraldry
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 13:22:12 -0500
From: Elaine Koogler<ekoogler at chesapeake.net>
To: "Mark.S Harris (rsve60)" <mark.s.harris at motorola.com>
No problem.
The name, Dun Carraig is Scots Gaelic for "stone fort"...and is derived
from the large archaelogical site in our area, Calvert Cliffs...lots of
shark remains, etc., buried in the cliffs...also there is a large Scots
population in southern Maryland.
The device, "Per chevron gules and crusilly bottony argent and argent, a
cross bottony within a laurel wreath gules" is an adaptation of the
Crossland arms on the Maryland state arms...I might add the only state
arms in the US that are truly heraldic! The Crossland arms are
"Quarterly gules and argent a cross botton counterchanged". So you can
see where the adaptation came in.
Our badge is "(fieldless) a seadog rampant to sinister gules". I guess
we're like all other Atlantian groups and, because of our location on
the Chesapeake Bay, tend to migrate to nautical heraldry.
We have one Order, the Order of the SeaHawk, "gules three wings in pall
argent". The other name for the seahawk is osprey...and this is a prime
location for those wonderful birds.
As we have a large transient population, we have an award/order we give
to those who are leaving us, The Company of Wayfarers of Dun Carraig,
whose badge is "a compass star argent surmounted by a cross bottony
gules".
Kiri
Subject: Place names and group history
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 11:37:03 +1100
From: JTStewart<jtstewart at optusnet.com.au>
To: "Mark.S Harris"<Mark.s.Harris at motorola.com>
Hi there.
I heard you are interested in how groups got their names.
This is the story of the group where I started in the SCA.
We were a war gaming group in the Latrobe Valley, which is about 80 to 90
miles East of Melbourne, Australia. We changed the group name from The
Latrobe Valley War gaming Association to Ohtar En Moria Roleplayers
Association when our interests turned more to roleplaying. That is
supposed to be Elvish for Warriors of the Black Pits. The Latrobe Valley
has enormous quantities of brown coal just under the surface and so there
are several major open cuts where the coal is mined to make briquettes and
electricity. This small area provides 90% of the electricity for the state
of Victoria. We ran Australia's first free form D&D roleplaying convention
called King Con at the Moe High School in 1984. We had contact with a
gaming fellow in Melbourne who had recently become involved with a group of
people who actually fought one another with swords and things. So we asked
if they would like to put on a display. James the Sinister and Braddock
MacCarrum came and fought with fiorfinn Hrolfsson as the Marshal. We
thought the SCA looked like great fun so we decided to start a group.
There are about four major power stations within about 30 miles so where
ever you go in the Latrobe Valley you can usually see either power station
chimneys and their smoke or high tension power lines going to
Melbourne. It seemed obvious to us that we should base our shire's name on
this major factor of life in the Latrobe Valley. When you travel to the
Valley from Melbourne you reach the last range of hills (called the Haunted
Hills) and as you reach the top of the last hill you see a lovely scenic
view of the valley and the top of the brown haze that fills the
valley. Thus was born Dark Skies in the Crown Principality of Lochac as
part of West Kingdom, a shire based in the modern world town of Moe,
Victoria, Australia.
Unfortunately jobs in Melbourne lured away some of the shires members
(including myself) and after about five or six years the group folded.
Cheers
John
From: Ron [eirik at hot.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 5:51 PM
To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
Subject: RE: [Ansteorra] The Shore of Middleford (was Too many events?)
Theron Bretz said:
> Sorry, but every time the title of this thread pops up, I crack
> up. I mean, isn't Middleford landlocked?
>
> Luciano
Actually there are two lake shores within 6 miles of where the majority of
us folks in Middleford live. The name came from the fact that we had a river
flowing through the middle of the Shire with a ford.
Eirik
From: Kim <nyxiz at shaw.ca
Date: Tue Apr 8, 2003 3:08:15 PM US/Central
To: StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
Subject: [Fwd: Re: shire] Resending this as requested on the list.
>>>
Harrows Cross was chosen because the research was already done for the name, no one felt fussy, and it sounded very cool. I picked it (because that's really what I did) because Gleichen had so many churches it seemed rather humourous (Harrow means temple or shrine, and wherever a church put a large cross was a landmark, so it's essentially Temple's Big Cross), it sounded cool, and I had already documented it.
Sad, but true. At least there were no fights about it!
Viridis
<<<
From: "Brown, Elizabeth" <BrownEli at Berkeleyprep.org>
Date: Tue May 27, 2003 7:07:50 AM US/Central
To: "Stefan li Rous" <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Author of the anonymous article on Pride in the Florilegium
> PS: Do you know the history or reason behind your shire's
> name?
Fiach Ogan is gaelic for Raven's Wood. Originally the shire was
populated almost exclusively by members of an early period Irish
household called Dun Tir. The personal device of the house leader (Duke
Aaron) is the raven - hence Raven's Wood.
Dulcia
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 22:48:38 -0400
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] viking alphabet OT/OOP
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
On 27 Aug 2003, at 22:23, Avraham haRofeh of Sudentur wrote:
> 45. Then did Phil take the cookpot away from the fire, and he did add
> milk and the sauce from the western shire.
Shouldn't that be "sauce from the Shire of Worcester pronounced 'Wooster'"? :)
Avraham
<<<
My husband, while a student at WPI, was one of the founding members of
the local SCA shire. He was present at the historic meeting during which
the new group was dubbed the Shire Von Sosse (German for "Shire of
Sauce"). After all, it was the Worcester Shire.
Brighid ni Chiarain *** mka Robin Carroll-Mann
Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom
From: Patricia Collum <pjc2 at cox.net>
Date: Thu Aug 28, 2003 8:58:51 AM US/Central
To: StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] SCA group names
My group, Barony of Sundragon first met at Estrella Park (past and currrent
site for Estrella War). This is in Goodyear, Arizona. To get to the park one
passes Goodyear Airpark, the occasional home of the actual Sundragon- the
Goodyear Blimp! Our 20 year anniversary is this October, 2003.
Lady Cecily de la Warde
Barony of Sundragon
Kingdom of Atenveldt
From: Dyan Ford <dyanford at txucom.net>
Date: Thu Aug 28, 2003 11:44:42 PM US/Central
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Ansteorra] Re: Fossil memories
>>>So, considering how thinly the SCA was spread in AS VI, how did you hear of the SCA?
What do you see as having changed the most since then? What stands out the most in your memories of the SCA in the last thirty years?
Stefan<<<<
Oh Boy, what a set of questions! Let's see how I can answer....
First, I 'heard of the SCA in college, in the back of the book 'The Broken Sword' by Poul Anderson <sigh>. From what I recall, it mentioned a group of people who spent their summer vacations near Chicago, playing 'medieval'. I remember telling my roommate than I was going as soon as I got out of school & got a job -- that was in 1969. (I _still_ have yet to attend Pensic!)
In 1972, I decided that if I couldn't get to Chicago, I'd try to find like-minded folk in the Houston area. So, I hand-lettered a 'recruitment' poster & posted it at a local Comics Convention. An old friend, JL3, saw it & asked why didn't I just join the group that was already in Houston. I almost freaked, demanding more info. He said that a group had formed some months earlier but had only 3 three people. He offered to make some calls & see about setting up a meeting -- which he did. We all met on the next Sunday to try to restart the Barony, 7 in person & 2 by proxy.
And since the group (then known only as 'The Barony in Houston') needed a name, we proceeded to debate possibilities. In those days, groups were often named for a predominant local landmark. Well, we sure didn't want the Bayou Barony! So I thought of NASA and suggested 'StarGate' because a reporter had earlier dubbed Houston as the Gateway to the Stars.... everyone seemed to like it so the name stuck. The device became a nine pointed star with 3 greater points for the original founders & 6 smaller points for the rest of us -- and 1 point was 'supposed' to be a 'binary' because JL3 was the only married founder (at the time) & we wanted to include his Lady (which she now denies --- hey, that's how _I_ remember it! )
As to how has it changed..... oh, there are not words to properly describe the differences! I mean, this was years before the Texas RenFaire, & we _lived_ the joke of "Are you in a Play?". No one took us seriously and communications with others in the SCA just didn't exist -- the nearest groups were Draconia (Baton Rouge, LA) to the East and the Atenveldt Barony/Kingdom (Tempe, AZ) to the West. In those days, there were only 4 Kingdoms & Atenveldt extended from the southern Atlantic States across to the border of California. I remember how we struggled to find references and information about historical practices. We truly did 'wing it' and things were accepted for the 'effort' involved in the making, not the 'historical accuracy' that is demanded today. The Dream was almost a tangible thing in those days & anyone who even made the attempt was welcome to play. I truly miss some of that 'tolerance'.
As to the most 'Memoriables' ... I'm afraid I'll have to put that into an article or something. The email would be much too long! And this email has become too long also! Thank you for your patience.
Shanahan the Fey, MLA, OLA, OMS, Starholder
From: Signora Apollonia Margherita degli Albizzi <apollonia at bellsouth.net>
Date: Mon Sep 8, 2003 8:08:15 PM US/Central
To: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Your new group's name
Our canton has been around for over three years now. We first tried to pass
the name "Sarum Henge" as we are located mundanely in Salisbury, NC, and are
a sister city to Salisbury, England.
Sarum did not pass, as it is not a period place name. "When returning the
name of Ailith of Sarum in November, 1997, Jaelle of Armida, then Laurel
Queen of Arms wrote: 'Unfortunately, Sarum is not the OE name for Salisbury,
but rather is a ghost name. In manuscripts the Latin Saresberia was
abbreviated to something that looks rather like Sa4. This was 'merely an
early manifestation of the medieval scribe's habit of abbreviating such
letters as ended in a horizontal stroke by means of a vertical stroke
through this', but because the resulting symbol (represented here by 4)
'frequently stands for rum', the abbreviation has been improperly extended
to Sarum (Johnson & Jenkinson, 67). The contemporary form of the name cane
be seen in William de Salesberie (1115) and Robert de Salisbyr' (1273).
Clearly Old Sarum must then have been called something like Old Salisbury;
Old Sarum seems to be an antiquary's name for the older ruins, based on a
misreading of the medieval records.'"
The element "Henge" in this context is also cause for return. In period
place names it appears only in Stonehenge. None of the many other stone
circles or other stone formations in Britain use this term in period. The
modern Archeological term "henge" used for a prehistoric ritual circle
appears to be a mid-20th century creation from the name of Stonehenge
itself, as the Oxford English Dictionary does not list the word with this
meaning. ("Henge is defined there as a period word meaning the innards of a
sheep!)
So we resubmitted our name as Sarum Tor. Again, the name did not pass
because of the Sarum element. So we decided to go with Salesberie instead
of Sarum, as we all think that actually living in a town in the US named
Salisbury is cool, and voted for Glen as our town is nice and green, and
there is a large Scottish population in this area of the US.
Salesberie Glen has actually passed the Laurel King of Arms; unfortunately,
our paid membership also dropped from about 8 to 4. We need 5 or more. So
we'll be incipient for a few more months, until I make sure people have
renewed...
Apollonia
Signora Apollonia Margherita degli Albizzi
Seneschal of the Incipient Canton of Salesberie Glen
Kingdom of Atlantia
From: "Darlene D. Bolesny" <fantasy_author at att.net>
Date: October 18, 2004 8:08:57 PM CDT
To: stefan at florilegium.org
Subject: Group Name History
Hiya! Alsinda here, the one at KWAR who was telling the story about how our incipient shire's name got changed from Nord du Lac to Northover. First, here is what our herald had to say about it:
For Nord du Lac, I documented "nord" and du Lac as period place-name elements and located a parish in Canada and an area in Switzerland named Nord du Lac to show present usage and numerous examples in AS and Middle English of "East of the/South of the" formation to show that it was a period-type formation. Unfortunately, our rules on group names had gotten more stringent: I had not shown "East of the/South of the" as a period formation in French: neither of my French examples had been a legal name in period. The parish was post-period; the area in Switzerland has been called that for centuries but has never been recognized as a legal name for the area.
Northover is well documented as two Anglo-Saxon place name parts from a Dictionary of AS place-name elements. The formation "East of the/South of the" is quite common in AS.
My comments:
When I first joined our incipient shire, it was still Nord du Lac and they were still searching for a French example which fit the "direction/of the lake" type format. Well, I have a friend who is a French national (Bruno), and so I asked him about it. He immediately replied, "The French never name anything like that!"
And as I thought about it, I realized that even in the two years of college French which I took at Tulane, we were taught to give directions in French without using the compass points. You might say "go two blocks, then turn right" but never "go north, then turn east"! I asked Bruno about that and he said that the French actually do sometimes give directions using compass points, but it's not very common. But what I thought was most funny was the way Bruno ended our conversation about it. He proclaimed, "Naming something like that is a very British thing! No, the French would never do that!" Too funny. And yes, he is correct, it is a very British thing to do, as Lord Colm was able to easily document when we switched to Northover. Northover had been our second-choice name and was very quickly approved once we quit searching for a French example of Nord du Lac!
So now we are Northover, and while we were very fond of Nord du Lac, Northover is quickly growing on us. I believe that one of the nicest things was that this name change did not effect our device - it has also been approved and works very well with either name:
Alsinda de Rochabaron, mka:
Darlene D. Bolesny
From: "Darlene D. Bolesny" <fantasy_author at att.net>
Date: October 18, 2004 10:38:41 PM CDT
To: 'Stefan li Rous' <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Group Name History
>>>
So, another heraldry/history question. How/why did you all choose that
particular device?
<<<
That one is fairly easy for me to answer. The blue and white stripes at the
bottom represent Lake Pontchartrain. The gold thing in the middle is a
compass to designate that we are "north" of the lake.
Here people often talk about where things are in relation to the water that
surrounds us. One either lives on the "northshore" or the "southshore" -
which is speaking about the lake. New Orleans is south of the lake. I
actually live on the 'southshore' while my incipient shire is on the
'northshore.' Then, in the city of New Orleans, people also talk about
living on the "eastbank" or the "westbank" - which is speaking about the
Mississippi River that runs through the city! Yes, it can get quite
confusing for newcomers.
And of course, the laurel leaves are the laurel leaves. But that is what
our device symbolizes to us and it does work with either name as we were (in
poor French) 'north of the lake' or in better English, Northover [the
lake]!
Alsinda de Rochabaron, mka:
Darlene D. Bolesny
From: Adriana <adriana_riverhold at yahoo.com>
Date: November 10, 2004 11:39:10 AM CST
To: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Florilegium
--- Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com> wrote:
> PS: I've not heard of your shire before. Do you know the history of
> how the name was selected and why?
Ok, here is my memory of what happened, please consider it unofficial.
Rio de las Animas is the result of a long struggle, and not really
satisfactory, but something had to be done.
We started the shire in 1995, as "Lost Souls" because of proximity to
the river in Durango CO called Rio de las Animas Perdidas. This was
rejected as "too Halloweeny". Then followed a number of versions of the
river name. with documentation efforts. Las Animas Perdidas was my
personal preference. At one point "rio" was rejected as not being a
place name component.
After seven or eight years of work, including extensive help from a
lady in a neighboring barony, the kingdom wanted the matter settled,
and we were at last made official as Rio de las Animas, shire of the
River of Souls. We still often call ourselves the Lost Souls.
Adriana
From: "Elisabeth B. Zakes" <kitharis at gmail.com>
Date: August 17, 2006 7:46:42 AM CDT
To: Barony of Bryn Gwlad <bryn-gwlad at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Bryn-gwlad] The problems of Welsh translation
Yes, someone looked in a Welsh-English dictionary, found two words
that translated to "hill" and "country" and made Bryn Gwlad, not
stopping to think about grammar or more exact meanings. Bryn Dir would
be, from what I've been told, the more accurate translation.
Aethelyan Moondragon
On 8/16/06, Robin Craig <robinec at cox.net> wrote:
> Well, to be truthful that is how we became Bryn-Gwlad which was meant to
> mean 'hill country' and instead translates to something more like
> 'some unspecified hill over that-away'.
>
> Or at least that is what I had heard.
>
> -Robin Anderson of Ross
From: Robert Fitzmorgan <fitzmorgan at gmail.com>
Date: September 25, 2006 3:32:13 AM CDT
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] history of SCA placenames
On 9/25/06, Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com> wrote:
> On Sep 22, 2006, at 1:16 AM, Robert Fitzmorgan wrote:
>> My first event was the High Nord Invitational in Nord as Das
>> Strom (later changed to Northkeep) in October 1985.
>> Somewhere I have pictures of myself marshaling the first
>> tournament I ever saw.
>>
>> Robert
>
> Nord? Nord -> Northkeep?
>
> I don't think I've heard about that before. Did "Nord" get turned
> down by the heralds? Or did the populace just decide to change the
> name?
>
> Stefan
The way I learned it Nord as das Strom was supposed to be Norse for
North of the storm, a reference to our being north of Namron. It was later
found that the correct translation would be "Nordlicher Strom", (almost
certainly misspelled), Nobody much cared for being Nordlichers so it
was changed.
Robert
From: Marc Carlson <marccarlson20 at hotmail.com>
Date: September 25, 2006 12:30:11 PM CDT
To: ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] history of SCA placenames
> StefanliRous at austin.rr.com Nord? Nord -> Northkeep?
> I don't think I've heard about that before. Did "Nord" get turned
> down by the heralds? Or did the populace just decide to change the
> name? Someone want to tell me the story of this for my Florilegium
> placenames-msg file?
I'll tell you *a* story. I won't say it's *the* story.
> Nord? Nord -> Northkeep?
> I don't think I've heard about that before. Did "Nord" get turned
> down by the heralds? Or did the populace just decide to change the
> name? Someone want to tell me the story of this for my Florilegium
> placenames-msg file?
The name Nord-aus-das Strom (“North of the Storm”) for the Tulsa, OK
group first appeared the Sable Star, the Ansteoran Principality
Newsletter in 1977. The shire’s first newsletter was called “Strom
Winds”, and there are no known extant copies, darn it. The name was
later changed to Nordlische Sturm (same meaning, more or less). Why
it was named that is said to be a commentary on political events
elsewhere. (For the record, whoever it was who was complaining about
the Society being more political – the SCA has pretty much always had
politics).
There were numerous suggested revisions for the name once it was
officially chartered in 1981 (mostly since political commentary
regarding other groups was thought to be not really an appropriate
basis for a groups name).
The name Northkeep was passed in 1984. I think the meaning of a safe
fortress in the North of the Kingdom is still present, but without
the tacky other connotations, so people were much happier.
Marc/Diarmaid
From: Kevin Varner <kvarner at austin.rr.com>
Date: September 25, 2006 4:29:49 PM CDT
To: faolon <faolon at plaiddragon.net>, "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA,
Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] history of SCA placenames
Greetings!
In 1984, I arrived in San Angelo (Goodfellow AFB) from Drachenwald and found
no SCA group in the area. My lady and I obtained a packet from the Kingdom
Seneschal on how to start a group. Little beknownst to us, on the other side
of town at Angelo State University a similar effort was taking place.
Apparently our letter arrived first and Mistress Ariela (sp?) directed them
to get in touch with us. In the end a small contingent from ASU and military
got together to form the Incipient Shire of Three Lochs (based on the 3
so-called lakes in the area).
We probably should have registered as a
College as the BOD expects those to shut down periodically (student
schedules and all) and my Army teaching schedule mucked up things for a
while, but we persevered. We had many problems due to fluctuating
populations and trying to maintain a full slate of officers. We held several
events, many of them in conjunction with Black Lake. Our first event was
"co-sponsoring" an event with the then Shire of Bonwicke. I believe it was a
war with the Outlands (I've slept since then and low on sleep now) at the OC
Fisher Reservoir. When Aerin and I left in 1988 they were looking better, but
still reaching. They had some troubles in 89/90, but overcame them. I am
glad that they have made it.
As to the name--the College of Herald made us jump through I do not know
how many hoops. We went from Three Lochs to Trelochs to Treloch. (All
supposedly in the interests of language continuity.) When I left it was
still Treloch.
I hope this helps and that my memory hasn't gone out the window.
HL Duncan MacConacher
2nd Seneschal of Treloch (San Angelo, TX)
> Ok I actually have a question for anyone who remembers.
> See, when I first started out in the SCA Trelac had a different name and I
> was wondering if anyone new what the other name was?
> Now as I remember (and my memory is sometimes based on bad information.)
> the "active" shire was being disbanded for reasons I never quite knew, but
> people in the region still wanted a shire there and some moved to San
> Angelo and thus Trelac was born.
>
> Now at the time this was happening myself and a friend joined the SCA but
> mostly played seperately from the shire so the full story was never really
> brought to light.
>
> Can anyone help? This was around '88 or '89 time frame.
>
> Faolon
From: "maireg at sbcglobal.net" <maireg at sbcglobal.net>
Date: September 25, 2006 8:49:50 PM CDT
To: ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] history of SCA placenames
<<< I remember it [the Shire of Trelac] being called something else but it does not come to mind easily anymore, too many head shots, I suppose, but will ask around. I am sure that someone here in Lovely Bonwicke will know.
Chiang >>>
As I remember, it was Stamdonshire in... '93-ish, when I started playing
there. It was still incipient then, too, I think the name change came
shortly before we managed actual Shire status.
Mary/Maire
From: Burke McCrory <bmccrory at tax.ok.gov>
Date: September 25, 2006 5:53:24 PM CDT
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Ansteorra] Ansteorran History "Did You Know?"
Since we seem to be talking about history and facts from ages past I
though I would start an email called "Did You Know". I have put some
interesting and obscure items here but I do expect the list to grow
as others add to it.
Burke
Did you know that:
The original name for Wiesenfeuer was Ebenfeuer which means Black Fire.
That the original name for Mooneschadowe was "Moonshadow, Land of the
Crying Wind" (rejected by the heralds as it had too many letters)
Currently Oklahoma is the only state in the SCA that has no shire in it.
<snip
[See the rest of these in the Anst-hist-msg file. - Stefan]
From: HerrDetlef at aol.com
Date: September 25, 2006 10:27:01 PM CDT
To: ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] history of SCA placenames - wne / why the
second "r"
Incidentally, the Old English phrase "an steorra" simply means "a star" or
"one star". "eo" is an Old English diphthong, and is pronounded as one vowel.
In Middle English the word "steorra" experienced the characteristic
inflection weakening, and the diphthong was replaced orthographically with the
similar sounding "e"...often becoming "sterre", then going into Modern English as "starre"....but the loss of the inflectional ending resulted in the current
spelling of "star". "An steorra" is properly pronounced "ahn STAY oh rah" or
even "ahn STAIR ah", but the pronunciation of the kingdom's name seems to
have become set in stone. The primary stress seems to have been fixed on a
vowel that, in the Old English period, was the weak half of a dipthong. The
reference is to an entry in 1066 in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, where notice is
given to a star, "unique and singular" (think our motto "Unicus et Singularis"), that portended the Norman invasion of England.
In a message dated 9/25/2006 9:47:26 PM Central Standard Time,
dontivar at gmail.com writes:
At 01:10 PM 9/25/2006, you wrote:
>> Jay Yeates jyeates at realtime.net
>> speaking of the history "placemenames" ... some of us silverbacks were
>> discussing the old days at our weekly communal dinner yesterday, and a
>> question came up ... exactly when/why did the kingdom name get the second
>> "r" tacked onto it ????? our oldest documents (popular and official) that
>> we still hold use the original spelling of "ansteora"
>
> I have been told that the change occurred when the principality
> became a kingdom.
>
> (and I bet folks thought I just couldn't type :) )
>
> Marc/Diarmaid
The original name (when we first became a region of Atenveldt) was
Ansteorra. When Sir Sean became Prince, he decided to change the
spelling to Ansteora (and the name of the newsletter from "Black
Star" to "Sable Star".) Prince Randall changed it back to Ansteorra,
and there was a fair bit of joking that Prince Simonn would spell it
"Ansteorrra".
Just think, if we'd kept up that tradition we'd now live in
Ansteorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrra.
-Tivar Moondragon
From: nweders at mail.utexas.edu
Date: September 26, 2006 8:23:32 AM CDT
To: ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Ansteorra Digest, Vol 5, Issue 90
> Bryn Gwlad was originally called Paiscumbre (no, I don't know what it
> means or why it was changed--that was before I lived here.)
Paiscumbre was supposed to be French for Hill Country. It was
started by Sir Andelion du Axegarth and Lady Augustina von Shugar and
comprised largely of students from the Greenbriar School. Sadly, they both
because inactive in the area (one moved, one dropped out) and the group
fell into inactivity though people still lived here. It reformed and
because more active when Vargskol started being around and I believe that's
when the name changed. For a great while, it was filled with a variety of
interesting characters (Gwilym the Smith and his wife Dail, Brenda the
Potter, Robert Simon Fraser and Dupre Starfire to name a few.).
<snip>
Clare
From: Dionycis at aol.com
Date: June 4, 2007 11:53:45 PM CDT
To: StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
Subject: Re: Web site questions
Lord Stefan -
The Shire of Champclair lives in a bit of a pun. The arms are in heraldic terms expressed thusly: "Per fess azure and vairy Or and azure, in chief a sun within a laurel wreath Or." What this means simply is that two thirds of the shield is in a "vairy" field. The design vairy relates to the design created by squirrel and other animal pelts hung to cure during the middle ages. The pun, it would seem, relates to our current times geographical area, known as, yup, you guessed it, Fairfield. Sounds a lot like Vairy Field. The rest of the arms translates as center top a sun inside a laurel wreath and they are both gold. For a picture of the arms along with the heraldic description go here -
http://heraldry.griffin-dor.org/groups/Groups.php?id=200
Who gave us our name and how is well before my time. I believe the Shire of Champclair is well near if not beyond 20 years old. I would have to ask Caiterina nic Shaemus as she was "alive" at the time of our naming.
Megs -
From: Marit <mymayhem4 at yahoo.com.au>
Date: April 12, 2009 6:54:19 PM CDT
To: StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
Subject: Re: Lochac group names
You asked how different groups got their names.
The Shire of Agaricus was so named at a meeting to decide its name when one of our members noticed that the original borders for the shire covered every mushroom farm in the area. Agaricus is latin for mushrooms. Agaricus was founded January 20, 1984.
Marit the Wanderer
(founding seneschal ret.)
From: Marit <mymayhem4 at yahoo.com.au>
Date: April 13, 2009 10:40:46 PM CDT
To: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Lochac group names
The original Agaricus device had 5 mushrooms representing the original 5 households in the shire. (Sable 5 mushrooms (2,2,1) Argent a laurel wreath Or)
When the borders were expanded to include Wollongong the number of mushrooms was reduced to 4 and a phoenix rising was added to the centre. (Sable between 4 mushrooms argent a phoenix rising Or flamed gules and a laurel wreath Or)
Marit
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 18:38:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: CatalinadeGata <gatan_oz at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] How did the groups within Lochac get their
names?
To: the SCA Lochac mailing listThe Shambles <lochac at sca.org.au>
Incipient Canton of Aachenfeld:
When forming we had a few requirements for name, Easy to say, spell and can be yelled across the war field as well as 'start with A' (Over here the Parent barony is Aneala and the sister Canton is Abetridwr) We went through quite a few names before we landed in Germany and found Aachen. Satisfied the criteria, it was a spa town, germany known for its drinking (The device has a goblet) and became the name voted upon for the group.
Seneschal for the Incipient Canton of Aachenfeld
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 16:22:26 +1300
From: lgd14 at paradise.net.nz
Subject: Re: [Lochac] How did the groups within Lochac get their
names?
To: Donald Campbell <actrealdon at hotmail.com>, "The Shambles, the SCA
Lochac mailing list" <lochac at sca.org.au>
For a comprehensive history of Southron Gaard see:
http://sg.sca.org.nz/about.htm
Christopher
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 02:19:14 +1000
From: "Lenehan" <lenehan at our.net.au>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] How did the groups within Lochac get their
names?
To: "The Shambles, the SCA Lochac mailing list" <lochac at sca.org.au>
Rowany is easy. In the early days, before we joined the SCA, when we were
the Society for the Current Middle Ages, we called the group around Sydney
the Kingdom of Cumberland. When we decided to join the SCA we had to
change. Several alternatives were mooted and, at an event held at the fist
Rowany site (but not the first Rowany Festival - the dates of these are all
wrong) we voted. Maletur came second - it had 2 votes and everyone else
voted to call the place after Our Founder - Rowan.
Stormhold, of course, was named for its Weather.
River Haven for its most noticeable geographical feature.
Ynys Fawr is Cymric for 'Big Island'.
Hrolf
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 18:53:44 +1030
From: joy walker <clanscotia at hotmail.com>
Subject: [Lochac] Group Names - Bordescros
To: <lochac at sca.org.au>
<<< Everyone knows the story behind Rowany's name, but apart from a few
educated guesses (Politarchopolis, Bordescros, Southron Gaard), >>>
Bordescros is the name that we ended up with, but it was originally very tentatively 'Thistlewich' however that didn't last long once we got serious about growing when we then changed it to Borders Crossing. The idea behind this name is fairly obvious, as we are the crossing point for the boundaries between NSW and Victoria from one end of our shire to the other, and there are quite a few bridges.
However there was a long period of time trying to argue why this should be able to be documented, and so that we didn't delay becoming a Shire any longer, we settled on 'Bordescros' as being the closest that we could get approval for and its meaning rather suited our group as well. We did get told by afew people afterwards that we should have kept fighting and may have succeeded in the end - maybe that is a battle for another day.
That is why you will frequently hear 'The Crossing' particularly on the warfield, or as a toast at our feasts.
The colours for our device (purple green and gold) are drawn from the colours that surround us on a daily basis, but some have more than one interpretation. The fretty ground is invoking the whole idea of multiple crossings. The purple came from a combination of thistles, pattersons curse and grapes all of which abound in our region, the green came from the wonderful fields and plants around us, and the gold from the sun and the canola fields. If you can find a high point at the right time of year you can almost see the device all around you. Sadly we weren't able to get the grapes onto our device.
YIS
Cairistiona inghean Raghnaill
(who was here at the beginning)
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2009 11:29:17 +1000
From: Del <del at babel.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] How did the groups within Lochac get their
names?
To: "The Shambles, the SCA Lochac mailing list" <lochac at sca.org.au>
<<< Everyone knows the story behind Rowany's name, but apart from a few educated guesses (Politarchopolis, Bordescros, Southron Gaard), I haven't been able to find the history behind the names of the other groups around Lochac. >>>
Aneala comes from the gaelic "an eala" meaning "the swan" as there are
lots of them in and around Perth.
http://translate.google.com/translate_t#ga|en|an%20eala
The Anealan device depicts two swans heads over a demi-sun.
http://aneala.sca.org.au/images/AnealaS2.gif
Inverted, it is two black socks hanging on a washing line, seen up
against a white fence with the sun coming up over the fence. We did
think about making the chief barry to represent a picket fence but it
made the device very "noisy".
We're not sure whose the socks were, nor how recently (or if) they got
washed.
--
Del
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 09:05:17 +0000
From: Tony Swallow <tony_swallow at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] How did the groups within Lochac get their
names?..... St Basil and Bosenberg
To: <lochac at sca.org.au>
The College of St Basil the Great....
Memory is a bit fuzzy but to my recollection there were a bunch of us sitting around discussing "cool" names when I believe it was Cynewulf of Wincestire (mka Jon Addisson) who suggested Basil, as this leads itself to puns with Basil Brush, Boom Boom as well as faulty Towers, a broken tower been the college device.... Come to think of it I think that parallels were drawn between myelf and Basil Faulty as far as the Manic rushing aound was concerned.
The Shire of Bosenberg went through a couple of name options before I told the story, as it was told to me by my ex-boss Jochen Heller, of a pass through the hills near the village he grew up in called "boeseneck" which means "the bad corner. Named after the robber baron who lived in the castle and looted travellers as they came around the corner.....
We couldnt get "Boeseneck" through but Boesenberg did get through. Thus the name means something like "the Bad/miscevious/troublesome/cheeky hills. Whiche fits Boesneberg to a t
Your Humble Landsknecht
Jochen Schwalbe
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 21:02:14 +1100
From: Paul Sleigh <bat at flurf.net>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] The Shambles - in the stone!
To: "The Shambles, the SCA Lochac mailing list" <lochac at sca.org.au>
Estel Talroval wrote:
[after the posting of a photograph of a narrow, medieval street in London. "The Shambles" is the nickname for the Lochac mailing list - Stefan]
<<< So is that how these Shambles got their name? >>>
Yes. Balrog, aka Peter Bismire (son of the owners of the original
Festival site), came up with the name. The rec.org.sca newsgroup, which
served a similar purpose for the SCA as a whole back when people knew
what Usenet was, used to be called The Rialto, after a bridge in Italy
that was a meeting place for people all over that part of the world.
The Shambles in York was similar, although more rowdy and involving more
raw meat and shouting, so Balrog reckoned it was a good name. It hung
around as a running gag for a long time, but when I was List Boss I
promoted the name pretty widely, and other people took it up and now
it's pretty ubiquitous.
History: it's not just for Laurels!
: Bat :
To: Gleann Abhann (mail list)
Subject: Re: SCA placenames
Posted by: "Kristen Praiswater" spellsinger28 at yahoo.com
Date: Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:02 pm ((PST))
I didn't see Gleann Abhan either. I live within that kingdom in a barony called Seleone, it's on the Mississippi Gulf Coast. As far as I know it means Sea Lion.
Kristen
From: Gen <gendorleans at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Gleann Abhann] SCA placenames
To: gleannabhann at yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 9:45 AM
Gleann Abhann means "River Valley".
Gentile
From: Rovena <rovena at hughes.net>
Date: January 17, 2010 4:00:04 PM CST
To: Stefan li Rous <stefanlirous at austin.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Gleann Abhann] SCA placenames
Greetings Your Lordship.
I was around when we were formed and am going by my memory.
Gleann Abhann is, I believe, Irish. The Scottish spelling is close.
River Valley is the Mississippi River Valley because that river runs straight thru the center (more or less) of the Kingdom and all the other rivers drain into it.
The choice of red and black was pretty much cut and dry. There was much debate between the use of the ram or the fleur de lis; in the end, the fleur de lis was determined to be too singular in its cultural influence.
To: Gleann Abhann (mail list) <gleannabhann at yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: SCA placenames
Posted by: "izibella at bellsouth.net" lofton50 at bellsouth.net izibella at bellsouth.net
Date: Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:37 pm ((PST))
Wyrmgeist means dragon ghost.
Isabella
From: Rovena <rovena at hughes.net>
Date: January 18, 2010 4:00:50 AM CST
To: Stefan li Rous <stefanlirous at austin.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Gleann Abhann] SCA placenames
Stefan li Rous wrote:
<<< Greetings Rowena,
Thanks for the clarification on Gleann Abhann.
By "the fleur de lis was determined to be too singular in its cultural influence" do you mean that it was too specifically French? Or too connected to just New Orleans? or something else? >>>
Too French and too connected to football.
<<< No, I don't have anything on the history or the name of Loch Bais. The easy way to check this, which is what I did, was to start at the top page of the site and use the search function found there. Nothing at all was found for "Loch Bais".
Where is this shire? >>>
Mundanely, Loch Bais is Natchitoches, LA, which is a college town. I was there on that porch when the name was selected. Most of us were newbies but we had a knight and his wife there as well. Those two ( the knight and his wife) tried hard to steer us towards traditional names. Sir Godfrey kept asking questions about the town's history and geography in an effort to find a good and unique name. The long time residents kept telling the newer residences some of the history of the town. Originally the town got it water from the Cane River but the federal government had insisted they build a lake to provide a more stable source of water. Whenever you build such lakes there are certain organisms that are in the water at first but die out as the lake is established - - except not there. Lake Sibley's organisms never died out and each each the water bill would have the warning that pregnant women and small children should not drink the water. This led to someone jokingly suggesting the name "Lake of Death".
The knight and his good wife said that the heralds would never approve such a morbid name and to keep trying. We moved on but stories kept being told about Lake Sibley and especially about things that had been found floating there over the years. One such item had been a hand. The rest of the body had never been found and the hand was too badly decomposed for fingerprints. Our Norman seneschal-to-be went to the library and did a word for word translation of Lake of Death into Gaelic and got Loch na Bais. Everyone kept telling us the name would never pass due its morbidness. We submitted with a copy of the water bill with the warning on it and a newspaper article citing the finding of the severed hand. We explained that the Celtics often named placed based on the history of the land. Our device was a skeletal hand rising out of the water holding the laurel wreath. Needless to say, we got our name and device with the only change being the dropping of "na" which was not needed. Examples one could cite are Loch Ness and Loch Lomond.
Rovena
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 20:12:04 +1100
From: Paul Sleigh <bat at flurf.net>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] Lochac placenames was Changes to the Current AoA
system
To: "The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list"
<lochac at lochac.sca.org>
On Mon, 2010-01-25 at 02:27 -0600, Stefan li Rous wrote:
<<< I have two placenames-msg files in the Florilegium where I try to
capture the history and meaning behind various SCA group names. >>>
Here's one for you, then:
http://flurf.nfshost.com/batpage/NamingOfTheShire. It's the story, in
rhyme and somewhat embellished, of how Politarchopolis finally got its
name past the College of Heralds. They knew for years what they wanted.
Only the spelling changed as they came up with better approximations of
historical plausibility. The legend that the final name means "City of
Left-Handed Fishmongers" is, of course, completely true.
: Bat :
PS For the benefit of anyone who hasn't heard the name spoken, the
pronunciation is /pol-IT-uh-COP-uh-l'ss/, rhymes with Acropolis or
Metropolis.
From: ealdredsca at aol.com
Date: June 2, 2010 8:16:24 PM CDT
To: stefanlirous at austin.rr.com
Subject: Re: How to donate?
As for Coldedernhale:
I checked your site and found only one reference to Coldedernhale. The writer knew it was a pun but I don't think he knew the full story. (http://www.florilegium.org/files/STORIES/Branch-Names-art.text)
We are in centeral South Dakota. The name "Coldedernhale" comes from two Old English words; "colde" and "dernhale". Colde means cold. Dernhale means a hidden lowland place that is along a river. Since the major city in the shire, Pierre, lies along the Missouri River and our state is known for being colder than ... during the winter, the name fits in many ways.
Our website has a map link under the About page. We stretch from the North Dakota to the Nebraska border through the center of the state, about 200 miles. The entire region has MAYBE a poplulation of 35,000 so we have a pretty small group.
http://www.coldedernhale.org/ - About Us. There you will find a history and map link.
The Northshield site has a picture of our shield (http://www.northshield.org/Branches/Display.aspx?ID=29) The animal looks like a hippocamp to me. It was supposed to be a Yale (http://www.theoi.com/Thaumasios/Eale.html) but the person submitting the design didn't do enough fact checking :))
Ealdred of Malmesbury
AKA Dawson Lewis
From: SPaterson <sjpaterson at eastlink.ca>
Date: July 21, 2010 7:44:36 AM CDT
To: StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
Subject: meaning of place names
Barony of Ruantallan - "piece of land jutting into the ocean" the largest land mass of Ruantallan is a peninsula, the province of Nova Scotia.
Crown Principality of Tir Mara (East Kingdom Canada) Celtic: Land on/of the Sea
Bess Darnley
<the end>
