West-hist-msg - 7/4/08 Histories of the SCA's West Kingdom. NOTE: See also the files: SCA-hist1-msg, SCA-stories1-msg, border-stories-msg, placenames-msg, East-hist-msg, you-know-msg, vanity-plates-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: rzex60 at email.mot.com (Jason of Rosaria) Subject: Verily, I saw the Pandy-Bat (WAS:Re: wacky weapons) Organization: The Polyhedron Group Date: Fri, 1 Apr 1994 19:41:03 GMT Ben Tucker <bentucker at delphi.com> wrote: > Michael McKay <a-mikem at ac.tandem.com> writes: > > >A typical West Kingdom Purgitorio Corination includes a "pandy-bat" > >tourney. The prize goes to the most imagnitive weapons. I remember > > Okay, I'll bite... > > What is a "Pandy-Bat" (Other than an interesting title for a song)? > > Owen Alun > bentucker at delphi.com > > {And who invented it?} Dredging up ancient memories of the Kingdom of the West, back when An Tir was still a Principality, back when I believe we only had four (or was it five?) kingdoms, I recall a scene at a Beltane Coronation ... Verily I was there. :-) I was watching the tourney that day. Most of the serious fighting was done, and they were doing challenge matches. A fighter stepped onto the field late in the afternoon. He was bearing a spear as a weapon. Strapped to the spear was a stuffed toy panda-bear, which someone had sewn black bat-wings onto. The stuffed toy was about a foot tall, with a similar wingspan. It jiggled comicly on the end of the spear, as if flying. The Marshals grimiced, but cried 'Lay On!'. His opponent strolled up and asked 'What the heck is that?'. The fighter replied 'It's a Pandy Bat', and promptly killed him with a spear thrust. The crowd thought it was funny. Fortunately, the felled fighter thought so too. I got the impression the two fighters were friends. Darned if I can remember either of their names. I was just a newbie myself at the time. Soon afterwards we heard of 'Pandy-Bat weapons competitions' at events, aimed at silly weapons. One criteria was that it has to be possibly more of a liability to the weilder than to their opponent. We saw the great 'War Scisors' - made of enough Rattan for three polearms, and weilded florentine with a loop in each hand. We also saw 'the semi-automatic repeating spear' - which was disallowed as too effective. It was a rattan spear with a PVC sleeve on the shaft, through which the spear was rapidly thrust. Was that the inception of the Pandy-Bat competitions? I think so. I was there, and that is what I recall. It was also many years ago, and I may be in error. So many years - so many events. It's hard to say. Regards, His Lordship Jason of Rosaria, GdS, JdL, AoA Member #3016 Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: lindal at goddess.mfg.sgi.com (Linda Levy) Subject: Re: Many time Kings of the Knowne World Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 17:47:06 GMT Greetings Ahh History.. what does it teach us.. zkessin at world.std.com (Zach) writes: |> lindal at goddess.mfg.sgi.com (Linda Levy) writes: |> |> >Greetings from the West |> |> >Possible due to the shortness of the reigns, we seem to hold the |> record |> >unless anyone can beat Duke Radnor of Gildemar who won 8 crown |> >tournements. |> >(there a trivia question there, since he only reigned 7 times. Is he |> the |> >only crown prince who has been forced to abdicate? |> Why? Can someone explain why he abdicated, and what the kingdom did |> during when he would have been king? |> |> Guiliem Wodehouse (MKA Zachary Kessin) |> In service to The Barony of Carolingia And the East Relm |> zkessin at world.std.com WARNING !!!! 2nd HAND INFO. corrections requested!! It was discovered after Radnor won the Crown, that the corporate office had not gotten around to entering his ladies name on the membership rolls before the previous months deadline, dispite having recieved her check and form(proof was the date the check was cashed) LONG before the deadline. The coproration decided that rules were rules, and that even if it was a clerical error, his lady was not eligabile to be Queen. They were nice enough to offer to let him pick a new lady, but that violated everything that we have been told about favors and inspiration, and he declined. the Kingdom then held what became known as "Crownatorio", on the date of the regularlly scheduled Purgatorio coronation. Saturday, they held a Crown lists, that only those that had entered the previous list were allowed to fight in. The winner was crowned king (as scheduled) the next day. the only difference was that we had no crown prince for the summer . linda of the lakelands(west) lindal at mfg.sgi.com Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: lindal at goddess.mfg.sgi.com (Linda Levy) Subject: Re: Many time Kings of the Knowne World Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 23:02:04 GMT litch at bga.com (Michael Litchfield) writes: |> In article <Cr3AqJ.F2x at odin.corp.sgi.com>, |> Linda Levy <lindal at goddess.mfg.sgi.com> wrote: |> >The coproration decided that rules were rules, and that even if it was a |> >clerical error, his lady was not eligabile to be Queen. They were nice |> >enough to offer to let him pick a new lady, but that violated everything |> >that we have been told about favors and inspiration, and he declined. |> > |> >linda of the lakelands(west) |> |> why the hell do we put up with that sort of bullshit? |> |> If we really believed in the things we say we do (oftn called the dream) |> we would focus on the truth and not the lies of the rules. |> |> What should have been done is that every one on that list field should |> have yeilded to him in the second tourney, OOPs left out the fact that he was not allowed to fight in the replacement tourney. Needless to say, his household has not had warm fuzzys for the corporation since then. then someone should have found the |> idjit responsible and taken them for a ride. |> |> -Michael |> lindal at mfg.sgi.com From: lukemingst at aol.com (LukeMingst) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Duke Radnor of Gildemar Date: 13 Jun 1994 04:45:04 -0400 In article <1994Jun11.110550.17243 at muss.cis.mcmaster.ca>, millsbn at mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca (Bruce Mills) writes: The "Crownatorio" you are refering to occured in August AS XXI. (I'm quoting _The Page_ here.) Though I was at the event, I don't remember it's CE time frame. I think it might have been the year 1987. This was the regularly scheduled Purgatorio that had been restructured to have a tournament on the first day, the winner being crowned the next. I do not remember any requirement (sp?) that those fighting in the new list had to have fought in the previous one. This is not to say there wasn't, but I don't remember any. The new tournament was won by Steven of Beckenham, the man who had lost to Duke Radnor in the previous finals. Many thought that he was supposed to have been awarded the throne immediately upon Radnor's disqualification. (Indeed, some of these people called to conngratulate him on becomming king even before he had heard that Radnor was disqualified.) I am not sure why Radnor was not allowed to fight in the new tourney. For all I know the memberships still weren't up to date by then. Lord Vlasta Ulvaeus Vinhold, Mists, WEST From: djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Many time Kings of the Knowne World Date: 8 Jun 1994 21:11:32 GMT Organization: University of California, Berkeley Petrea Mitchell <pravn at gm.dev.com> wrote: > I've heard it told that there once was a move to create the >rank of `Archduke' for those who had reigned something like six >times or more, with Greyhelm in particular in mind. One of Grey- >helm's first acts the next time he became King was stop all that. Hi, Petrea. You have the right of it, except it wasn't Greyhelm, it was Henrik of Havn. Henrik had already reigned five times, and one of his former squires (Stephen Black Eagle?) was on the throne and enacted the rank of Archduke for those who had reigned six times, "because," he said, "it looks as if we will soon be in need of such a title." Well, guess who won the next Crown. And no sooner had Henrik set his bottom on the throne than he abolished the rank of Archduke, and that took care of that. Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin Dorothy J. Heydt (Petrea's aunt) Mists/Mists/West UC Berkeley Argent, a cross forme'e sable djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu PRO DEO ET REGE From: djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: What The Eric IS Date: 28 Jun 1994 22:03:37 GMT Organization: University of California, Berkeley Harold Kraus Jr <harald at ksu.ksu.edu> wrote: >I asked: >>>What were the four colors of the original "eric"? > >Dorothea answered: >>Red, white, and yellow; only over time they all faded to an >>anonymous uniform grey. There wasn't any fourth. > >Really? Oh well, what were the other names refered to in the KWH? >(e,i. Eric the "Red") (If this isn't SCA urban legend.) OK, it was like this. We got big enough to need something to mark off the fighting area from the spectating area. So Marynel of Darkhaven and her mother Ellen Cross Quills (now in Paradise) went to a cheap-fabric place and bought lots of cheap fabric in a soft red color, because that was the cheapest thing they had at the moment. Marynel and Ellen sewed the fabric into long strips umpteen feet long and about eight inches high, with vertical sleeves at regular intervals, and Master Beverly Hodghead twisted wire into ~ foot-high spikes to fit into the sleeves. It was a nice area boundary marker, and we called it "Eric the Red." But we kept growing and after a while the Eric wasn't big enough any more, so Marynel and Ellen went back to the cheap fabric place but they didn't have any more cheap red fabric. So they bought lots of cheap yellow fabric and made it up and called it "The Yellow Peril." And again, they went back to the fabric store and got cheap white fabric and called it "The Great White Hope" or "The White Russian." But by now it was all a sort of dingy grey and we called it generically "The Eric." I vas dere, Sharlie..... Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin Dorothy J. Heydt Mists/Mists/West UC Berkeley Argent, a cross forme'e sable djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu From: djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: SCAdians authors (and authors who include SCA in their works) Date: 28 Aug 1994 23:52:41 GMT Organization: University of California, Berkeley David Schroeder <ds4p+ at andrew.cmu.edu> wrote: > Back in the ancient days, weren't events often held in > conjunction WITH science fiction conventions (like Baycon > in '68, for example)? .... OK, I just answered Bertram by mail but I'll mention it here too. I can think of a couple of demos we gave at cons in early years that were attended by numerous science-fiction pros. Westercon 20 in Los Angeles in 1967, for instance, where both Harlan Ellison and Fritz Leiber showed up and fought (about one bout apiece). And of course there was Baycon in Berkeley in 1968, at which some fans from New York and Chicago saw us and said, "Cool! We want to do this too!" and went home and founded the East and Middle Kingdoms. Larry Niven was at Baycon; I don't know whether he attended the demo. (It's been, what, twenty-six years.) I don't know whether the Heinleins attended Baycon at all; his health was getting rather fragile by then, and also he was so horrendously popular from _Stranger in a Strange Land_ that it was risky for him to go out in public, lest he be grokked to death by water-brother wannabees. I remember John Campbell was there, though, and was very interested, and murmured something about picking up a sword. But he was getting on in years too, and I think his wife convinced him not to. So if we count demos, that's another few names. Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin Dorothy J. Heydt Mists/Mists/West UC Berkeley Argent, a cross forme'e sable djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu PRO DEO ET REGE From: becks2 at aol.com (Becks2) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Duke Radnor of Gildemar Date: 28 Aug 1994 01:21:08 -0400 millsbn at mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca (Bruce Mills) writes: Welllllllllll, How interesting. My name is Duke Stephen of Beckenham....the dubious winner of that (in)famous Crown Tournament. His Grace, Radnor was fighting for his lady wife, Isabeau, who was later found not to be an actual member of the SCA. Not that anyone really had a problem with it, other than those who insist that the "book" be followed, especially by those they do not particularly like. Sigh. Anyway, he was given the option of ruling with another consort, which he immediately, and quite honorably, did NOT accept. All fighters who were in the June Crown lists were allowed to fight at Puratorio (Crownatorio, or Purganation). So, 3 months passed (almost). It was probably about a month before this all hit the fan. Honestly, I do not remember whether Radnor was allowed to fight or not. It seems to me that Isabeau could not be a member by that time (no check was received at the registrar, and it usually takes TOO long for memberships to process), as well as the stink that came up with Radnor fighting for someone not a member. Yep, I did receive congratulatory phone calls prior to finding much of this out. Rolf, the King at the time, was hard pressed to make a decision as whether to have the list be refought or to pass the Crown on to me. I was given the option, and I, being new at the time, asked for a bit of time to think it over. Not long after, and after much discussion with people I respected, His Grace being one of them, I mentioned to the King that it was his decision, as it was His Kingdom, not mine. The list was refought, at the August Purgatorio. Coronation Court was held about an hour after the lists were completed. UGH! Memories are fun, eh? Duke Stephen..... From: foxd at silver.ucs.indiana.edu (daniel fox) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Trashing the SCA (Rumor CTRL) Date: 7 Dec 1994 09:35:55 GMT Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington IN Re: bad publicity for the SCA, I was really bored the other day, and caught a syndicated rerun of _Unsolved Mysteries_ and it seems they are still running the nastily slanted report on the SCA member in CA who was murdered/ committed suicide. I thought the SCA lawyers got them to stop this one after it was first aired. AdR From: jearley at aol.com (J EARLEY) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Trashing the SCA (Rumor CTRL) Date: 8 Dec 1994 12:50:18 -0500 foxd at silver.ucs.indiana.edu (daniel fox) writes: regarding the Unsolved Mysteries episode about the deathe of Kurt Mcphall(sp)( It has been a long time people) I was King of the West at the time of this tragedy, and had to deal with adverse publicity, and ignorance of the SCA on the part of the SFPD. I had lengthy conversations with Officer Sandy Gallant, who investigated 'cult' crimes for the SFPD. She was open minded and intelligent. Hillary Powers also talked with her and convinced Sandy that we were OK. We had a good relationship that helped during the case and later when the SCA was attacked by a fundamentalist police lt. in Boise Id. If you have any trouble with publicity because of this episode, please call Officer Gallant. She can probably help clear things up. To this date, the case is still unsolved(as far as I know). Most of the problems that the SCA had were caused by Kurt's father, who was convinced that the SCA had something to do with the death. The SCA did not succeed in removing this episode from the air. If you listen carefully to the dialog, the SCA is not implicated in the crime. The two worst things in the episode were the notorius 'ambush' interview with Hillary, and the fact that no clear distinction was made between the SCA and Gabriel Carillo's shamanistic classes. James Earley From: RWESTMARCH at aol.COM Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: DINOSAURS--Re: Sir Jon -not an old timer Date: 28 Jun 1995 12:07:22 -0400 THANKYOU !!! At my very first practice session I borrowed the great Sir Jons gauntlets to try a pole weapon and Duke Paul broke my fingers anyway ( I spent 3 hours in the hospital waiting room and still didn't have the courage to tell the doctor what really happend). Recently the Prince of Cynagua announced that when I was knighted; GOD was a cubscout. I've felt terrible since. NOW I am a punk kid again!!! (besides, as I recall GOD had just made Eagle Scout). :) :) :) robert (Robert of Westmach KSCA, OP, etc.) (SunsetShire, Principality of the Mists, Kingdom of the West) From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Fighting with Schlaggers Date: 4 Oct 1995 15:46:29 GMT Organization: University of California, Berkeley Joe Bethancourt (ioseph at primenet.com) wrote: : Hell, while we're at it, lets ban tentstakes with ropes attached! They're : plumb DANGEROUS at night! And let's get rid of those pointy parts on our : coronets! Someone might sit on them and hurt themselves! ^^^^^ "Might"? Been done; Principality of the Mists; immortalized in verse by the prince's own bard. Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn From: djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Looking for Book - Murder At The War? Date: 28 Oct 1996 17:42:13 GMT Organization: University of California at Berkeley Chris and Elisabeth Zakes <moondrgn at flash.net> wrote: >Correct. What *I* want to know is, why did the chirurgeons (not to >mention his lady) ever let Sir Geoffrey wander away with such a head >injury? Possibly they didn't realize how bad it was. Head injuries sometimes take a while to manifest themselves (it's a matter of effusion of blood into the brain, I understand). Perhaps Sir Geoffrey took the head blow, said, "Good!", fell down, got up, said, "Yes, that *was* a good one," and wandered off to get some Gatorade. And just kept wandering, while people's backs were turned. Which reminds me.... 'Way back in AS III, the Society did a fighting demo at Baycon at the Claremont in Berkeley. We hadn't learned all the tricks about doing demos yet--such as, "if the blow looks good, take it; don't confuse the audience. So Duke Richard of Mont Real took a head blow and stopped to discuss it with his opponent and the nearby marshals, while the audience shifted and fumed, for a minute or two. They decided the blow was good. So Richard turned to the audience and said, "You know, it's a funny thing about these head wounds, my lords and ladies, you can take one and feel fine for a minute or two, and then suddenly...." [falls over] [CLUNK] Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin Dorothy J. Heydt Mists/Mists/West UC Berkeley Argent, a cross forme'e sable djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu PRO DEO ET REGE From: Megan nic Alister of Thornwood <megan at wco.com> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Aten's Principality of the Sun Coronet Tourney invalidated Date: 31 Jan 1997 03:16:17 GMT >In a recent case in the West, when a Coronet Tourney was held a >few weeks after the Crown Tourney, the incumbent Prince noted >that a certain fighter had not had a valid membership at the time >of Crown, and had spoken to the fighter a week before Coronet, >warning him that if he intended to fight in Coronet he must get >his membership renewed; the fighter said he would do so. > >A week later, at Coronet, the fighter won the tournament. > >A week (roughly) before Investiture, the Prince learned not only >that the victorious fighter had not renewed his membership by >the time of Coronet, he *still* had not renewed it and showed no >signs of being about to renew it before he was invested. > >Thereupon the Prince, using phone trees and email, announced that >the Coronet Tourney was invalidated, that a new lists would be >fought as the first event at Investiture, and that the >investiture of the new victor and consort would take place at >what hour they chose (this was a weekend event, so they had the >choice of Saturday evening or any time Sunday). > >And this was done. Snip >Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin Dorothy J. Heydt >Mists/Mists/West Albany, California >PRO DEO ET REGE djheydt at uclink Not True ... the fighter's membership in the SCA was current and valid. His fighter's authorization card had expired. Two totally different things, but the decision was that it invalidated the coronet tournament. Countess Megan nic Alister of Thornwood, OP PS - I know the facts since the fighter in question is my lord's squire and a friend. Subject: Re: minstrel: Re: ANST - Mooneschadowe Guardian Results Date: Wed, 23 Sep 98 10:09:42 MST From: "Fred (Flieg) Hollander" <flieg at socrates.Berkeley.EDU> To: "Mike C. Baker" <kihe at ticnet.com>, <ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG> [.trim.] >(I note for the general edification of the reading populace that Ansteorra >is a bit unusual in the eyes of other SCA kingdoms in that we do grant >the so-called "naked" Grant of Arms from time to time. There are >typically particular reasons why the Grant is made separate from >one of the Grant-bearing Companionships / "Orders" / Court Baronies, >and it is that additional information which leaves me most curious.) Hoom... Inter-Kingdom Anthro time. West Kingdom only has one Grant Bearing Order and it hasn't been given in a coon's age. Almost all of our Grants are "naked". (And Court Barony only carries an AoA -- and the right to wear as cool a hat as you think you can get away with.) Anyway, in no Kingdom I know are Grants "cheap". * * * Frederick of Holland, MSCA, OP, etc. *|* *|* *|* flieg at socrates.berkeley.edu |===========| (((Flieg Hollander, Chemistry Dept., U.C. Berkeley))) ====================== Old Used Duke ===================== [All subjects of the Crown are equal under its protection.] Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:40:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: SC - scadianisms > The use of "eric" is part of the SCA culture deriving (as I > understand it) from the old red ribbon/fabric used to mark the list field > which was fondly called "Eric the Red" by those who used it... It was later > shortened to Eric and extrapolated by others to denote the list boundary > long after the orignal "eric" was no longer used. > > Or so I have been told. > > Caitlin of Enniskillen Other than it was red rope, not ribbon, your story is correct. Master John ap Griffin provided the rope for the West Kingdom in the very, very early days of the SCA. He used to be a rope salesman. Huette Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 09:38:50 -0800 From: Susan Fox-Davis <selene at earthlink.net> To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] catering peerage meetings. david friedman wrote: > >The baby Knight in Lochac is supposed to bring the beer, and the > >baby Laurel, chocolate. > > I think that goes with my story of the kingdom that once awarded a > Laurel for photography. I know who you are talking about. I think that is the kingdom of your current residence, is it not? I had thought perhaps that this elevation was made before the invention of the Order of the Pelican, but closer examination of the West Kingdom timeline and various orders of precedence reveals otherwise; the West Kingdom Order of the Pelican was established in 1974 while the elevation was in 1978. Possibly an argument could be made for the Science of History-keeping, but really it must remain one of those wacky SCA inconsistancies that keep life interesting. Much water has passed beneath the bridge, the barony of her residence has passed to a younger kingdom, photography [while a visual medium] is more generally regarded as a service to the realm, and the lady in question, while very much alive, has lived with the effects of a stroke and attends about one event per year in a wheelchair and lots of help. But you know what? She still brings her camera with her every time. Fondly, Selene Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: djheydt at kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) Subject: Re: Do sheet walls still make Westerners boggle? Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 21:51:01 GMT Arval <arval at mittle.users.panix.com> wrote: >The first times I escorted west-coast Societyfolk around Pennsic, one >of the things that blew their minds was the boundaries around camps. >I didn't really understand why until I went to West-An Tir war about The one time I went to Pennsic, the West Kingdom camp area was delineated by the back edges of the tents, and by a symbolic gateway made of scrap timber. It was what we could get. Practically everything we had brought had flown in with us. And, recall, most of us don't get to Pennsic very often. It was long ago on this very bridge, and I forget who said it, that for people east of the Rockies going to Pennsic is like going back to your home town for Thanksgiving. You live in the same spot you always live in, you do the things you always do this time of year, you see all your old friends and relatives you see at no other time. Whereas for those of us west of the Rockies, going to Pennsic is like making the pilgrimage to Jerusalem: long planned-for, performed at great sacrifice and effort, long remembered. >10 years ago: Tents were plopped down any old way, without any >boundaries, roads, or any organization at all that I could see. I can't speak for An Tir, though in many cases they do things like the West of which they used to be a part, but at Western events the tourneymasters do lay out the site with boundaries and roads and so forth. And then people come in, and they come in in droves, and they come in in the middle of the night, and they set up wherever they can, and sometimes they set up in the roads because they couldn't see the markers or because there is literally nowhere else to set up. And when asked to move, sometimes they do, and sometimes they don't, because there is nowhere else to go. There is also nothing like the land allocation before the fact that Pennsic does, because we camp at many different sites and the tourneymasters generally get access to it only a few hours before the populace starts arriving (e.g., Friday noon and 3 pm respectively). I've only been to Pennsic once. My impression was of a very large group, but an even larger area to camp in. If we have a large group (and West Kingdom events frequently go over a thousand attendees), and a not-large-enough area, we wind up camping in each other's laps. >People routinely walked directly through the middle of other people's >campsites, and were astonished when I commented on that behavior. At the point I described above, people sometimes *have* to walk through one another's camps, though they are generally courteous enough to ask leave, and give thanks when they get it. Now, if KHTI ever finds a suitable site and buys it, then the West can start setting up boundaries and roads that are, if not permanent in the true sense, at least the same from event to event. Currently the only stable elements are that the Eric (the lists boundary) will be set up somewhere, the Royal Pavilion will be set up on it (probably with its back to the setting sun), and several other official pavilions and sunshades will be set up in proximity to it. All else is first come, first served. Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin Dorothy J. Heydt Mists/Mists/West Albany, California PRO DEO ET REGE djheydt at kithrup.com Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: djheydt at kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) Subject: Re: Trimaran Crown List Cancelled Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 03:12:01 GMT Tim McDaniel <tmcd at panix.com> wrote: >I remember when Ealdormere's principality tourney had to be scheduled >or re-scheduled at the last minute. They sent a postcard to every >subscriber of _The Pale_: the back had the date, place, occasion, and >a few other details, whatever could fit in the top half of a postcard. >The bottom half had something like "This is an extraordinary edition >of The Pale ..." followed by all the usual boilerplate (subscriptions >are available via, copyright, all that). It was the smallest SCA >newsletter I've ever seen. Indeed. That is even smaller than the extraordinary issue of the Page which my lord and I had to send out when we were editing it (back in the days of a hand-cranked mimeograph dating from about 1982 CE) to notify everyone that at a recent event, widely attended, there had been a lady present who was subsequently diagnosed with German measles. I think that one came to two pages. Positively large compared to the one you describe. Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin Dorothy J. Heydt Mists/Mists/West Albany, California PRO DEO ET REGE djheydt at kithrup.com Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 13:49:26 -0800 From: lilinah at earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Feasts Per Year To: sca-cooks at ansteorr.org Samrah wrote: > How about a sound-off by kingdom as to how many feasts per year (kingdom, > baronial, shire, whatever), how man served & price per plate? Here's what i know of. Comments are based in part on personal experience, memories from previous event copy, and info from the West Kingdom Calendar http://www.westkingdom.org/calendar/Calendar0405.html Note i've been in the SA 5-1/2 years and from spring of 1999 to the fall of 2000 i had no car and only attended limited events, and in 2004 i had a lot of car trouble and only attended limited events. So I have attended a limited number of non-Kingdom, non-Principality of the Msts, non-Province of the Mists events. ATTENDANCE - varies. Small ones are for 30-50, large ones (by our standards) for 70-100. COST - varies. Good ones cost attendees about $15 (which includes site fee) and the cooks get to spend about $7/head; some ar $7 (i don't know what the cooks get to spend of this). NUMBER - looks like there's an average of three feasts per month within the kingdom. WEST KINGDOM - No Feasts, None (although sometimes there's a period pot-luck lunch at the Collegia (when we have them) PRINCIPALITY OF THE MISTS (NoCal Coastal region) - Three feasts - sometimes four -- MAY - Spring Investiture (60-80) -- SEPT - Bardic Competition and Feast (60-100) -- NOV - Fall Investiture (60 - it usually rains and it's dark so many folks leave before the meal) One Fall Investiture autocrat had us twice cook for an estimated 100 attendees, but there has never been that many in the 5 years of them i've attended. -- COLLEGIUM - when there is one (when the is no Kingdom collegium in the Principaliy) there IS a feast for 60-100 PRINCIPALITY OF CYNAGUA (NoCal Central Valley, Sierra Mountains, plus a bit of NoNevada) None i know of - doesn't mean there are none (their Winter and Summer Investitures are camping events) I will be cooking a private Cynguan feast for about a dozen PRINCIPALITY OF OERTHA (Alaska) two investitures... i'm not sure about others LOWER LEVELS There are MANY feasts on the Shire, Province, Barony, and Canton level. Most of the ones that serve food set a 50 attendee limit, butsome like the Province of the Mists Boar Hunt can serve between 70-100 (which i've assisted once, head cooked twice and attended twice). The Principality of the Mists contains three baronies (one of which has four cantons), seven shires, two provinces, ad two colleges. The Principality of Cynagua contains two baronies, fourteen shires, two provinces, and one college. The Principality of Oertha contains three baronies, one canton, and one college listed on the West Kingdom website, but it looks like thee may be more subdivisions. The Marches are within the Kingdom, but not within any Principality. Some of these areas may be somewhat restricted in their activities, especially those located on military bases. There's a Barony in Alaska, two in Northern Clifornia (one has a college, one has a canton), and one for the whole Pacific Rim (which has one canton, three strongholds and one vale). There are also two shires in The Marches in NoCal. I don't know if the Canton - now Incipient Shire - of Pavlovsk Gaann is in the Principality of Oertha or the Barony of Earngyld in The Marches. Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 11:12:40 -0700 From: lilinah at earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Creative Supplimentation To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Celia des Archier wrote: > One of the things that has been a bit of culture shock since I moved out > here has been the difference in cultural attitudes about feasting. The > first SCA folks I met out here were very kind and invited me to travel with > their household with the upcoming Portrero War. In an effort to repay them > for their kindness I offered to play "camp Mom" and plan the meals, > expecting to stay as "period" or "perioid" as possible, which shocked them. > The idea of trying to at least contribute to the "illusion" by including > period and perioid foods seemed foreign to them (as did the idea that their > kids might actually enjoy those foods ;-) I later found that the vast > majority of the events here were 1 day events, or if they were two day > events they concluded in the evening of day 1 and resumed on day 2. The > exception seemed to be the few large wars. Again, I haven't had the chance > to attend any events yet, and I've just recently renewed my membership, so > this impression was obtained primarily second and third hand, by talking to > folks, but out here feasting seems to be the exception rather than the rule, > whereas in the Southeast it is almost always integral to the event. Caid, as i understand (having "played" there during the summer of 1988), has few camping event - most are, indeed, day-trip only. I live in The West and most of our events at most levels are camping (Kingdom, Principality, Barony, and occasionally Shire). Before my back got really bad, i cooked mostly "period" food at events (now i have days when i can't even lift the Coleman camp stove which really weighs very little - and on every day standing for extended periods causes back pain). But how people feel about the food is rather individual. I have a number of friends who try to make mostly "period" food and i know people for whom a camping event is mostly hot dogs and diet soda. So i couldn't make blanket opinions about cultural attitudes. Most feasts i've attended in branches of The West (since there are few Kingdom level feasts) have been "period". Pot-luck feasts are often not, but even then some contributors bring "period" food. Yet i hear rumors that in some other kingdoms, "period" feasts are the exception. Now, as to what events have feasts, that is extremely variable from place to place. We have few feasts at our camping events. Since the vast majority our camp sites have no available water, no showers, no electricity, and porta-potties only (the exceptions being two county fair sites), it's hardly surprising that we rarely have feasts at camping events. There are a few exceptions - a recent shire event made arrangements to use two large pavilions to shelter diners - i cooked for 150 for a privately-sponsored feast at a kingdom event a couple years ago - and i have attended a couple Mists Principality camping events that have had pot-luck feasts. However, we have a fair number of feasts at one-day branch events, most of which serve "period" food. So, it depends. I'm always amazed to hear about Kingdoms that have camping events in which people sleep in cabins and have feasts cooked in "feast halls" that have electricity and plumbing! More SCA inter-kingdom anthropology... or perhaps cultural geography... -- Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM) the persona formerly known as Anahita Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 14:35:10 -0700 From: "K C Francis" <katiracook at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] IKA - head table seating? - Western traditions To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org We have had 3 Crowns a year (March, June and October) from the beginning, so it is really everyong else who did it differently. And I've heard it was because we can, weatherwise. The Principalities here have 6 month reigns just like everyone else. Not sure how that happened or why. Another interesting inter-kingdom difference is the way Royalty change. Some years ago, I was horrified when the Mists Royalty changed in a hostile takeover! I was told that in other Kingdoms this was normal!?! Well, I have since experienced a stabbed and dying Prince give the Principality to his heir and a Prince who decide to become a monk. Personally, I much prefer the joyful and regal transfer of Crowns and Coronets to the heirs. Many HAPPY tears. And why, I ask, did all the examples above happen in the Principality of the Mists? Viscountess Katira proud defender of the West and Western traditions > From: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com> >> Sitting Royalty, or counts and dukes and viscounts? >> If it's just sitting Royalty, how many do you have? >> Most places have four couples at the most: King, Queen, Prince, >> Princess, and their heirs. >> >> Mordonna (inquiring minds want to know) >> >> K C Francis <katiracook at hotmail.com> wrote: >> This doesn't happen often, as we have so many Royals at >> any given time, it is usually the problem of fitting in a large enough >> table to hold them all. > > Well see, it's like this. The West Kingdom seems to kill off their Royalty > much more often than do the other kingdoms (kinda like the Byzantines), so > they need to keep more than the usual pair of spares around. > > Stefan Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 16:36:20 -0700 From: "K C Francis" <katiracook at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pennsic Article - West Kingdom History Site To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org The West Kingdom has a History site with pictures and event descriptions of as many events (from the beginning) as possible. Here are the memories of those who were there starting with what led up to the first event. http://history.westkingdom.org/Year0/index.htm click on [year 1] to check out the flyer for that first event and pictures. Katira al-Maghrebiyya Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 19:32:25 -0700 From: lilinah at earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Tiki Torch Recall To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Stefan wrote: > Selene mentioned: >> We don't even bother buying this in Fire Danger Land, aka Caid. Tiki >> torches are not allowed at any of our war sites. > > At all? Or just when there is a "a no open flames" restriction? What > do you mean by "our war sites"? Do you mean all outside camping > events? > > Tiki torches, at least in the generic sense and not a specific brand, > are rather common in Ansteorra. Of course they may be restricted at > particular events which are under a "no open flames ban". Here in the West, Tiki Torches (generic) are utterly totally thoroughly irrevocably forbidden at our events - since most are camping - and there's no reason to have then at the one-day events. -- Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM) the persona formerly known as Anahita Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 23:00:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Eric, was feast organization/service question To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org> > Margarite wrote: >>> There have been events with pot-luck feasts on the Eric >> >> what do you mean by Eric? I've seen this used before but I don't >> know what it means. (I'm in Ansteorra) Well, Caid is, and probably always will be, a Western rite Scadian Kingdom. We still call the tourney field "the eric". Although, I thought that the rope itself was red, and not just the flags. It wouldn't surprise me if that first rope had been purchased by Master John ap Griffin [John Trimble] because he and his wife Mistress Flavia [Bjo Trimble] joined in A.S. 1 and because he had been a rope salesman for many many years before his retirement. I had heard that the reason the rope was red was because the red rope wasn't selling well and he got it at a substantial discount, so that a lot of rope was purchased for relatively little money. Huette, who wasn't there at the time. I didn't join until 1974. Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: djheydt at kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) Subject: Re: The Fix is In Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 21:45:13 GMT <quietire at popmail.com> wrote: >Duke Havordh Aettarbani fighting for Duchess Mary Grace of Gatland has >won Glean Abhain's Crown Tourney. Gee, they just stepped down a couple >months ago. Sounds like a fix. Not knowing you, or them, I don't know if your tongue is in your cheek or not. But I recall the time in the West Kingdom (several decades ago) when the Crown of the West was won, and worn, by James Greyhelm and Paul of Bellatrix, turn and turn about, for two solid years (that's three reigns each). More recently, Jade of Starfall has been King of the West every other reign for several years running, though recently he's slowed down a little. There was no fix in: James and Paul in their day, and Jade in his day, were simply the best damn fighters in the West, and could win Crown any day they set out to do so. Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin Dorothy J. Heydt Mists/Mists/West Albany, California PRO DEO ET REGE djheydt at kithrup.com <the end> Edited by Mark S. Harris West-hist-msg Page 18 of 18