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West-hist-msg – 12/21/14


Histories of the SCA’s West Kingdom.


NOTE: See also the files: SCA-hist1-msg, SCA-stories1-msg, border-stories-msg, placenames-msg, East-hist-msg, Caid-hist-msg, you-know-msg, vanity-plates-msg.





This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.


This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org


I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.


The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.


Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).


Thank you,

   Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                         Stefan at florilegium.org



Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: rzex60 at email.mot.com (Jason of Rosaria)

Subject: Verily, I saw the Pandy-Bat (WAS:Re: wacky weapons)

Organization: The Polyhedron Group

Date: Fri, 1 Apr 1994 19:41:03 GMT


Ben Tucker <bentucker at delphi.com> wrote:

> Michael McKay <a-mikem at ac.tandem.com> writes:


> >A typical West Kingdom Purgitorio Corination includes a "pandy-bat"

> >tourney.  The prize goes to the most imagnitive weapons.  I remember


> Okay, I'll bite...


> What is a "Pandy-Bat"  (Other than an interesting title for a song)?


> Owen Alun

> bentucker at delphi.com


> {And who invented it?}


Dredging up ancient memories of the Kingdom of the West, back when An Tir

was still a Principality, back when I believe we only had four (or was it

five?) kingdoms, I recall a scene at a Beltane Coronation ...


Verily I was there. :-)


I was watching the tourney that day. Most of the serious fighting was done,

and they were doing challenge matches. A fighter stepped onto the field

late in the afternoon. He was bearing a spear as a weapon. Strapped to the

spear was a stuffed toy panda-bear, which someone had sewn black bat-wings

onto. The stuffed toy was about a foot tall, with a similar wingspan. It

jiggled comicly on the end of the spear, as if flying. The Marshals

grimaced, but cried 'Lay On!'. His opponent strolled up and asked 'What the

heck is that?'. The fighter replied 'It's a Pandy Bat', and promptly killed

him with a spear thrust.


The crowd thought it was funny. Fortunately, the felled fighter thought so

too. I got the impression the two fighters were friends. Darned if I can

remember either of their names. I was just a newbie myself at the time.


Soon afterwards we heard of 'Pandy-Bat weapons competitions' at events,

aimed at silly weapons. One criteria was that it has to be possibly more of

a liability to the wielder than to their opponent. We saw the great 'War

Scissors' - made of enough Rattan for three polearms, and wielded florentine

with a loop in each hand. We also saw 'the semi-automatic repeating spear'

- which was disallowed as too effective. It was a rattan spear with a PVC

sleeve on the shaft, through which the spear was rapidly thrust.


Was that the inception of the Pandy-Bat competitions? I think so.


I was there, and that is what I recall. It was also many years ago, and I

may be in error. So many years - so many events. It's hard to say.



His Lordship Jason of Rosaria, GdS, JdL, AoA

Member #3016



Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: lindal at goddess.mfg.sgi.com (Linda Levy)

Subject: Re: Many time Kings of the Knowne World

Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 17:47:06 GMT



Ahh History.. what does it teach us..


zkessin at world.std.com (Zach) writes:

|> lindal at goddess.mfg.sgi.com (Linda Levy) writes:


|> >Greetings from the West


|> >Possible due to the shortness of the reigns, we seem to hold the

|> record

|> >unless anyone can beat Duke Radnor of Gildemar who won 8 crown

|> >tournements.

|> >(there a trivia question there, since he only reigned 7 times. Is he

|> the

|> >only crown prince who has been forced to abdicate?

|> Why? Can someone explain why he abdicated, and what the kingdom did

|> during when he would have been king?


|> Guiliem Wodehouse (MKA Zachary Kessin)

|> In service to The Barony of Carolingia And the East Relm

|> zkessin at world.std.com


WARNING !!!! 2nd HAND INFO. corrections requested!!


It was discovered after Radnor won the Crown, that the corporate office

had not gotten around to entering his ladies name on the membership rolls

before the previous months deadline, dispite having recieved her check and

form(proof was the date the check was cashed) LONG before the deadline.


The coproration decided that rules were rules, and that even if it was a

clerical error, his lady was not eligabile to be Queen. They were nice

enough to offer to let him pick a new lady, but that violated everything

that we have been told about favors and inspiration, and he declined.


the Kingdom then held what became known as "Crownatorio", on the date of

the regularlly scheduled Purgatorio coronation. Saturday, they held a Crown

lists, that only those that had entered the previous list were allowed to

fight in. The winner was crowned king (as scheduled) the next day. the only

difference was that we had no crown prince for the summer .


linda of the lakelands(west)

lindal at mfg.sgi.com



Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: lindal at goddess.mfg.sgi.com (Linda Levy)

Subject: Re: Many time Kings of the Knowne World

Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 23:02:04 GMT


litch at bga.com (Michael Litchfield) writes:

|> In article <Cr3AqJ.F2x at odin.corp.sgi.com>,

|> Linda Levy <lindal at goddess.mfg.sgi.com> wrote:

|> >The coproration decided that rules were rules, and that even if it was a

|> >clerical error, his lady was not eligabile to be Queen. They were nice

|> >enough to offer to let him pick a new lady, but that violated everything

|> >that we have been told about favors and inspiration, and he declined.

|> >

|> >linda of the lakelands(west)


|> why the hell do we put up with that sort of bullshit?


|> If we really believed in the things we say we do (oftn called the dream)

|> we would focus on the truth and not the lies of the rules.


|> What should have been done is that every one on that list field should

|> have yeilded to him in the second tourney,


OOPs left out the fact that he was not allowed to fight in the replacement

tourney. Needless to say, his household has not had warm fuzzys for the

corporation since then.


then someone should have found the

|> idjit responsible and taken them for a ride.


|> -Michael



lindal at mfg.sgi.com



From: lukemingst at aol.com (LukeMingst)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Duke Radnor of Gildemar

Date: 13 Jun 1994 04:45:04 -0400


In article <1994Jun11.110550.17243 at muss.cis.mcmaster.ca>,

millsbn at mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca (Bruce Mills) writes:


The "Crownatorio" you are refering to occured in August AS XXI.  (I'm

quoting _The Page_ here.)  Though I was at the event, I don't

remember it's CE time frame.  I think it might have been the year



This was the regularly scheduled Purgatorio that had been

restructured to have a tournament on the first day,  the winner being

crowned the next.


I do not remember any requirement (sp?) that those fighting in the

new list had to have fought in the previous one.  This is not to say

there wasn't, but I don't remember any.


The new tournament was won by Steven of Beckenham, the man who had

lost to Duke Radnor in the previous finals.  Many thought that he was

supposed to have been awarded the throne immediately upon Radnor's

disqualification. (Indeed, some of these people called to

conngratulate him on becomming king even before he had heard that

Radnor was disqualified.)


I am not sure why Radnor was not allowed to fight in the new tourney.

For all I know the memberships still weren't up to date by then.


Lord Vlasta Ulvaeus


   Vinhold, Mists, WEST



From: djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Many time Kings of the Knowne World

Date: 8 Jun 1994 21:11:32 GMT

Organization: University of California, Berkeley


Petrea Mitchell <pravn at gm.dev.com> wrote:

>      I've heard it told that there once was a move to create the

>rank of `Archduke' for those who had reigned something like six

>times or more, with Greyhelm in particular in mind. One of Grey-

>helm's first acts the next time he became King was stop all that.


Hi, Petrea.


You have the right of it, except it wasn't Greyhelm, it was

Henrik of Havn.  Henrik had already reigned five times, and one

of his former squires (Stephen Black Eagle?) was on the throne

and enacted the rank of Archduke for those who had reigned six

times, "because," he said, "it looks as if we will soon be in

need of such a title."  Well, guess who won the next Crown.  And

no sooner had Henrik set his bottom on the throne than he

abolished the rank of Archduke, and that took care of that.


Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin          Dorothy J. Heydt

(Petrea's aunt)

Mists/Mists/West                   UC Berkeley

Argent, a cross forme'e sable           djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu




From: djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: What The Eric IS

Date: 28 Jun 1994 22:03:37 GMT

Organization: University of California, Berkeley


Harold Kraus Jr <harald at ksu.ksu.edu> wrote:

>I asked:

>>>What were the four colors of the original "eric"?

>Dorothea answered:

>>Red, white, and yellow; only over time they all faded to an

>>anonymous uniform grey.  There wasn't any fourth.

>Really? Oh well, what were the other names refered to in the KWH?

>(e,i. Eric the "Red")  (If this isn't SCA urban legend.)


OK, it was like this.  We got big enough to need something to

mark off the fighting area from the spectating area.  So Marynel

of Darkhaven and her mother Ellen Cross Quills (now in Paradise)

went to a cheap-fabric place and bought lots of cheap fabric in a

soft red color, because that was the cheapest thing they had at

the moment.  Marynel and Ellen sewed the fabric into long strips

umpteen feet long and about eight inches high, with vertical

sleeves at regular intervals, and Master Beverly Hodghead twisted

wire into ~ foot-high spikes to fit into the sleeves.  It was a

nice area boundary marker, and we called it "Eric the Red."


But we kept growing and after a while the Eric wasn't big enough

any more, so Marynel and Ellen went back to the cheap fabric

place but they didn't have any more cheap red fabric.  So they

bought lots of cheap yellow fabric and made it up and called it

"The Yellow Peril."


And again, they went back to the fabric store and got cheap white

fabric and called it "The Great White Hope" or "The White



But by now it was all a sort of dingy grey and we called it

generically "The Eric."


I vas dere, Sharlie.....


Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin          Dorothy J. Heydt

Mists/Mists/West                          UC Berkeley

Argent, a cross forme'e sable           djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu



From: djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: SCAdians authors (and authors who include SCA in their works)

Date: 28 Aug 1994 23:52:41 GMT

Organization: University of California, Berkeley


David Schroeder  <ds4p+ at andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:

> Back in the ancient days, weren't events often held in

> conjunction WITH science fiction conventions (like Baycon

> in '68, for example)?  ....


OK, I just answered Bertram by mail but I'll mention it here too.

I can think of a couple of demos we gave at cons in early years that

were attended by numerous science-fiction pros.  Westercon 20

in Los Angeles in 1967, for instance, where both Harlan Ellison

and Fritz Leiber showed up and fought (about one bout apiece).

And of course there was Baycon in Berkeley in 1968, at which

some fans from New York and Chicago saw us and said, "Cool!

We want to do this too!" and went home and founded the East and

Middle Kingdoms.  Larry Niven was at Baycon; I don't know whether

he attended the demo.  (It's been, what, twenty-six years.)  I

don't know whether the Heinleins attended Baycon at all; his

health was getting rather fragile by then, and also he was so

horrendously popular from _Stranger in a Strange Land_ that it

was risky for him to go out in public, lest he be grokked to

death by water-brother wannabees.  I remember John Campbell was

there, though, and was very interested, and murmured something

about picking up a sword.  But he was getting on in years too,

and I think his wife convinced him not to.


So if we count demos, that's another few names.


Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin          Dorothy J. Heydt

Mists/Mists/West                   UC Berkeley

Argent, a cross forme'e sable           djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu




From: becks2 at aol.com (Becks2)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Duke Radnor of Gildemar

Date: 28 Aug 1994 01:21:08 -0400


millsbn at mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca (Bruce Mills) writes:


Welllllllllll, How interesting.  My name is Duke Stephen of

Beckenham....the dubious winner of that (in)famous Crown Tournament.  His

Grace, Radnor was fighting for his lady wife, Isabeau, who was later found

not to be an actual member of the SCA.  Not that anyone really had a

problem with it, other than those who insist that the "book" be followed,

especially by those they do not particularly like.  Sigh.  Anyway, he was

given the option of ruling with another consort, which he immediately, and

quite honorably, did NOT accept.


All fighters who were in the June Crown lists were allowed to fight at

Puratorio (Crownatorio, or Purganation). So, 3 months passed (almost).  It

was probably about a month before this all hit the fan.  Honestly, I do

not remember whether Radnor was allowed to fight or not.  It seems to me

that Isabeau could not be a member by that time (no check was received at

the registrar, and it usually takes TOO long for memberships to process),

as well as the stink that came up with Radnor fighting for someone not a



Yep, I did receive congratulatory phone calls prior to finding much of

this out.


Rolf, the King at the time, was hard pressed to make a decision as whether

to have the list be refought or to pass the Crown on to me.  I was given

the option, and I, being new at the time, asked for a bit of time to think

it over.  Not long after, and after much discussion with people I

respected, His Grace being one of them, I mentioned to the King that it

was his decision, as it was His Kingdom, not mine.


The list was refought, at the August Purgatorio.  Coronation Court was

held about an hour after the lists were completed. UGH!


Memories are fun, eh?  Duke Stephen.....



From: foxd at silver.ucs.indiana.edu (daniel fox)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Trashing the SCA (Rumor CTRL)

Date: 7 Dec 1994 09:35:55 GMT

Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington IN


Re: bad publicity for the SCA, I was really bored the other day, and caught

a syndicated rerun of _Unsolved Mysteries_ and it seems they are still

running the nastily slanted report on the SCA  member in CA who was murdered/

committed suicide.

I thought the SCA lawyers got them to stop this one after it was first aired.





From: jearley at aol.com (J EARLEY)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Trashing the SCA (Rumor CTRL)

Date: 8 Dec 1994 12:50:18 -0500


foxd at silver.ucs.indiana.edu (daniel fox) writes:


regarding the Unsolved Mysteries episode about the deathe of Kurt

Mcphall(sp)( It has been a long time people) I was King of the West at the

time of this tragedy, and had to deal with adverse publicity, and

ignorance of the SCA on the part of the SFPD.  I had lengthy conversations

with Officer Sandy Gallant, who investigated 'cult' crimes for the SFPD.

She was open minded and intelligent.  Hillary Powers also talked with her

and convinced Sandy that we were OK.  We had a good relationship that

helped during the case and later when the SCA was attacked by a

fundamentalist police lt. in Boise Id.  If you have any trouble with

publicity because of this episode, please call Officer Gallant.  She can

probably help clear things up.

   To this date, the case is still unsolved(as far as I know).  Most of

the problems that the SCA had were caused by Kurt's father, who was

convinced that the SCA had something to do with the death.  The SCA did

not succeed in removing this episode from the air.  If you listen

carefully to the dialog, the SCA is not implicated in the crime.  The two

worst things in the episode were the notorius 'ambush' interview with

Hillary, and the fact that no clear distinction was made between the SCA

and Gabriel Carillo's shamanistic classes.  James Earley  




Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: DINOSAURS--Re: Sir Jon -not an old timer

Date: 28 Jun 1995 12:07:22 -0400


THANKYOU !!!    At my very first practice session I borrowed the great Sir

Jons gauntlets to try a pole weapon and Duke Paul broke my fingers anyway ( I

spent 3 hours in the hospital waiting room and still didn't have the courage

to tell the doctor what really happend).  Recently the Prince of Cynagua

announced that when I was knighted; GOD was a cubscout.  I've felt terrible

since. NOW I am a punk kid again!!!  (besides, as I recall GOD had just made

Eagle Scout).     :)  :)  :)      robert       (Robert of Westmach KSCA, OP,

etc.)   (SunsetShire,   Principality of the Mists,  Kingdom of the West)



From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Fighting with Schlaggers

Date: 4 Oct 1995 15:46:29 GMT

Organization: University of California, Berkeley


Joe Bethancourt (ioseph at primenet.com) wrote:


: Hell, while we're at it, lets ban tentstakes with ropes attached! They're

: plumb DANGEROUS at night! And let's get rid of those pointy parts on our

: coronets! Someone might sit on them and hurt themselves!


"Might"? Been done; Principality of the Mists; immortalized in verse by

the prince's own bard.


Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn



From: djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Looking for Book - Murder At The War?

Date: 28 Oct 1996 17:42:13 GMT

Organization: University of California at Berkeley


Chris and Elisabeth Zakes <moondrgn at flash.net> wrote:


>Correct. What *I* want to know is, why did the chirurgeons (not to

>mention his lady) ever let Sir Geoffrey wander away with such a head



Possibly they didn't realize how bad it was.  Head injuries

sometimes take a while to manifest themselves (it's a matter of

effusion of blood into the brain, I understand).  Perhaps Sir

Geoffrey took the head blow, said, "Good!", fell down, got up,

said, "Yes, that *was* a good one," and wandered off to get some

Gatorade. And just kept wandering, while people's backs were



Which reminds me....


'Way back in AS III, the Society did a fighting demo at Baycon at

the Claremont in Berkeley.  We hadn't learned all the tricks

about doing demos yet--such as, "if the blow looks good, take it;

don't confuse the audience.


So Duke Richard of Mont Real took a head blow and stopped to

discuss it with his opponent and the nearby marshals, while the

audience shifted and fumed, for a minute or two.  They decided

the blow was good.  So Richard turned to the audience and said,

"You know, it's a funny thing about these head wounds, my lords

and ladies, you can take one and feel fine for a minute or two,

and then suddenly...." [falls over] [CLUNK]


Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                Dorothy J. Heydt

Mists/Mists/West                        UC Berkeley

Argent, a cross forme'e sable           djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu




From: Megan nic Alister of Thornwood <megan at wco.com>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Aten's Principality of the Sun Coronet Tourney invalidated

Date: 31 Jan 1997 03:16:17 GMT


>In a recent case in the West, when a Coronet Tourney was held a

>few weeks after the Crown Tourney, the incumbent Prince noted

>that a certain fighter had not had a valid membership at the time

>of Crown, and had spoken to the fighter a week before Coronet,

>warning him that if he intended to fight in Coronet he must get

>his membership renewed; the fighter said he would do so.

>A week later, at Coronet, the fighter won the tournament.  

>A week (roughly) before Investiture, the Prince learned not only

>that the victorious fighter had not renewed his membership by

>the time of Coronet, he *still* had not renewed it and showed no

>signs of being about to renew it before he was invested.

>Thereupon the Prince, using phone trees and email, announced that

>the Coronet Tourney was invalidated, that a new lists would be

>fought as the first event at Investiture, and that the

>investiture of the new victor and consort would take place at

>what hour they chose (this was a weekend event, so they had the

>choice of Saturday evening or any time Sunday).

>And this was done.




>Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                         Dorothy J. Heydt

>Mists/Mists/West                               Albany, California

>PRO DEO ET REGE                                  djheydt at uclink


Not True ... the fighter's membership in the SCA was current and valid.  

His fighter's authorization card had expired.  Two totally different

things, but the decision was that it invalidated the coronet tournament.


Countess Megan nic Alister of Thornwood, OP


PS - I know the facts since the fighter in question is my lord's squire

and a friend.



Subject: Re: minstrel: Re: ANST - Mooneschadowe Guardian Results

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 98 10:09:42 MST

From: "Fred (Flieg) Hollander" <flieg at socrates.Berkeley.EDU>

To: "Mike C. Baker" <kihe at ticnet.com>, <ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG>




>(I note for the general edification of the reading populace that Ansteorra

>is a bit unusual in the eyes of other SCA kingdoms in that we do grant

>the so-called "naked" Grant of Arms from time to time.  There are

>typically particular reasons why the Grant is made separate from

>one of the Grant-bearing Companionships / "Orders" / Court Baronies,

>and it is that additional information which leaves me most curious.)



Inter-Kingdom Anthro time. West Kingdom only has one Grant Bearing

Order and it hasn't been given in a coon's age. Almost all of our Grants

are "naked". (And Court Barony only carries an AoA -- and the right to wear

as cool a hat as you think you can get away with.)

Anyway, in no Kingdom I know are Grants "cheap".


   *   *   *    Frederick of Holland, MSCA, OP, etc.

*|* *|* *|*   flieg at socrates.berkeley.edu


(((Flieg Hollander, Chemistry Dept., U.C. Berkeley)))

====================== Old Used Duke  =====================

[All subjects of the Crown are equal under its protection.]



Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:40:05 -0700 (PDT)

From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: SC - scadianisms


> The use of "eric" is part of the SCA culture deriving (as I

> understand it) from the old red ribbon/fabric used to mark the list field

> which was fondly called "Eric the Red" by those who used it... It was later

> shortened to Eric and extrapolated by others to denote the list boundary

> long after the orignal "eric" was no longer used.

> Or so I have been told.

> Caitlin of Enniskillen


Other than it was red rope, not ribbon, your story

is correct.  Master John ap Griffin provided the

rope for the West Kingdom in the very, very early

days of the SCA.  He used to be a rope salesman.





Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 09:38:50 -0800

From: Susan Fox-Davis <selene at earthlink.net>

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] catering peerage meetings.


david friedman wrote:

> >The baby Knight in Lochac is supposed to bring the beer, and the

> >baby Laurel, chocolate.

> I think that goes with my story of the kingdom that once awarded a

> Laurel for photography.


I know who you are talking about.  I think that is the kingdom of your

current residence, is it not?  I had thought perhaps that this elevation

was made before the invention of the Order of the Pelican, but closer

examination of the West Kingdom timeline and various orders of

precedence reveals otherwise;  the West Kingdom Order of the Pelican was

established in 1974 while the elevation was in 1978.  Possibly an

argument could be made for the Science of History-keeping, but really it

must remain one of those wacky SCA inconsistancies that keep life



Much water has passed beneath the bridge, the barony of her residence

has passed to a younger kingdom, photography [while a visual medium] is

more generally regarded as a service to the realm, and the lady in

question, while very much alive, has lived with the effects of a stroke

and attends about one event per year in a wheelchair and lots of help.

But you know what?  She still brings her camera with her every time.


Fondly, Selene



Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: djheydt at kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)

Subject: Re: Do sheet walls still make Westerners boggle?

Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd.

Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 21:51:01 GMT


Arval <arval at mittle.users.panix.com> wrote:

>The first times I escorted west-coast Societyfolk around Pennsic, one

>of the things that blew their minds was the boundaries around camps.

>I didn't really understand why until I went to West-An Tir war about


The one time I went to Pennsic, the West Kingdom camp area was

delineated by the back edges of the tents, and by a symbolic

gateway made of scrap timber.  It was what we could get.

Practically everything we had brought had flown in with us.  And,

recall, most of us don't get to Pennsic very often.


It was long ago on this very bridge, and I forget who said it,

that for people east of the Rockies going to Pennsic is like

going back to your home town for Thanksgiving.  You live in the

same spot you always live in, you do the things you always do

this time of year, you see all your old friends and relatives you

see at no other time.  Whereas for those of us west of the

Rockies, going to Pennsic is like making the pilgrimage to

Jerusalem: long planned-for, performed at great sacrifice and

effort, long remembered.


>10 years ago: Tents were plopped down any old way, without any

>boundaries, roads, or any organization at all that I could see.


I can't speak for An Tir, though in many cases they do things

like the West of which they used to be a part, but at Western

events the tourneymasters do lay out the site with boundaries and

roads and so forth.  And then people come in, and they come in in

droves, and they come in in the middle of the night, and they set

up wherever they can, and sometimes they set up in the roads

because they couldn't see the markers or because there is

literally nowhere else to set up.  And when asked to move,

sometimes they do, and sometimes they don't, because there is

nowhere else to go.


There is also nothing like the land allocation before the fact

that Pennsic does, because we camp at many different sites and

the tourneymasters generally get access to it only a few hours

before the populace starts arriving (e.g., Friday noon and 3 pm



I've only been to Pennsic once.  My impression was of a very large

group, but an even larger area to camp in.  If we have a large

group (and West Kingdom events frequently go over a thousand

attendees), and a not-large-enough area, we wind up camping in

each other's laps.


>People routinely walked directly through the middle of other people's

>campsites, and were astonished when I commented on that behavior.


At the point I described above, people sometimes *have* to walk

through one another's camps, though they are generally courteous

enough to ask leave, and give thanks when they get it.


Now, if KHTI ever finds a suitable site and buys it, then the

West can start setting up boundaries and roads that are, if not

permanent in the true sense, at least the same from event to

event. Currently the only stable elements are that the Eric (the

lists boundary) will be set up somewhere, the Royal Pavilion will

be set up on it (probably with its back to the setting sun), and

several other official pavilions and sunshades will be set up in

proximity to it.  All else is first come, first served.


Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                         Dorothy J. Heydt

Mists/Mists/West                               Albany, California

PRO DEO ET REGE                               djheydt at kithrup.com



Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: djheydt at kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)

Subject: Re: Trimaran Crown List Cancelled

Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd.

Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 03:12:01 GMT


Tim McDaniel <tmcd at panix.com> wrote:

>I remember when Ealdormere's principality tourney had to be scheduled

>or re-scheduled at the last minute.  They sent a postcard to every

>subscriber of _The Pale_: the back had the date, place, occasion, and

>a few other details, whatever could fit in the top half of a postcard.

>The bottom half had something like "This is an extraordinary edition

>of The Pale ..." followed by all the usual boilerplate (subscriptions

>are available via, copyright, all that).  It was the smallest SCA

>newsletter I've ever seen.


Indeed. That is even smaller than the extraordinary issue of the

Page which my lord and I had to send out when we were editing it

(back in the days of a hand-cranked mimeograph dating from about

1982 CE) to notify everyone that at a recent event, widely

attended, there had been a lady present who was subsequently

diagnosed with German measles.  I think that one came to two

pages. Positively large compared to the one you describe.


Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                         Dorothy J. Heydt

Mists/Mists/West                               Albany, California

PRO DEO ET REGE                               djheydt at kithrup.com



Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 13:49:26 -0800

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Feasts Per Year

To: sca-cooks at ansteorr.org


Samrah wrote:

>  How about a sound-off by kingdom as to how many feasts per year (kingdom,

>  baronial, shire, whatever), how man served & price per plate?


Here's what i know of. Comments are based in part on personal

experience, memories from previous event copy, and info from the West

Kingdom Calendar



Note i've been in the SA 5-1/2 years and from spring of 1999 to the

fall of 2000 i had no car and only attended limited events, and in

2004 i had a lot of car trouble and only attended limited events. So

I have attended a limited number of non-Kingdom, non-Principality of

the Msts, non-Province of the Mists events.


ATTENDANCE - varies. Small ones are for 30-50, large ones (by our

standards) for 70-100.


COST - varies. Good ones cost attendees about $15 (which includes

site fee) and the cooks get to spend about $7/head; some ar $7 (i

don't know what the cooks get to spend of this).


NUMBER - looks like there's an average of three feasts per month

within the kingdom.


WEST KINGDOM - No Feasts, None (although sometimes there's a period

pot-luck lunch at the Collegia (when we have them)


PRINCIPALITY OF THE MISTS (NoCal Coastal region) - Three feasts -

sometimes four

-- MAY - Spring Investiture (60-80)

-- SEPT - Bardic Competition and Feast (60-100)

-- NOV - Fall Investiture (60 - it usually rains and it's dark so

many folks leave before the meal)

One Fall Investiture autocrat had us twice cook for an estimated 100

attendees, but there has never been that many in the 5 years of them

i've attended.

-- COLLEGIUM - when there is one (when the is no Kingdom collegium in

the Principaliy) there IS a feast for 60-100


PRINCIPALITY OF CYNAGUA (NoCal Central Valley, Sierra Mountains, plus

a bit of NoNevada)

None i know of - doesn't mean there are none

(their Winter and Summer Investitures are camping events)

I will be cooking a private Cynguan feast for about a dozen



two investitures... i'm not sure about others



There are MANY feasts on the Shire, Province, Barony, and Canton

level. Most of the ones that serve food set a 50 attendee limit, butsome like the Province of the Mists Boar Hunt can serve between

70-100 (which i've assisted once, head cooked twice and attended



The Principality of the Mists contains three baronies (one of which

has four cantons), seven shires, two provinces, ad two colleges.


The Principality of Cynagua contains two baronies, fourteen shires,

two provinces, and one college.


The Principality of Oertha contains three baronies, one canton, and

one college listed on the West Kingdom website, but it looks like

thee may be more subdivisions.


The Marches are within the Kingdom, but not within any Principality.

Some of these areas may be somewhat restricted in their activities,

especially those located on military bases. There's a Barony in

Alaska, two in Northern Clifornia (one has a college, one has a

canton), and one for the whole Pacific Rim (which has one canton,

three strongholds and one vale). There are also two shires in The

Marches in NoCal.


I don't know if the Canton - now Incipient Shire - of Pavlovsk Gaann

is in the Principality of Oertha or the Barony of Earngyld in The




Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 11:12:40 -0700

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Creative Supplimentation

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org


Celia des Archier wrote:

> One of the things that has been a bit of culture shock since I moved out

> here has been the difference in cultural attitudes about feasting.  The

> first SCA folks I met out here were very kind and invited me to travel with

> their household with the upcoming Portrero War.  In an effort to repay them

> for their kindness I offered to play "camp Mom" and plan the meals,

> expecting to stay as "period" or "perioid" as possible, which shocked them.

> The idea of trying to at least contribute to the "illusion" by including

> period and perioid foods seemed foreign to them (as did the idea that their

> kids might actually enjoy those foods ;-)   I later found that the vast

> majority of the events here were 1 day events, or if they were two day

> events they concluded in the evening of day 1 and resumed on day 2.  The

> exception seemed to be the few large wars. Again, I haven't had the chance

> to attend any events yet, and I've just recently renewed my membership, so

> this impression was obtained primarily second and third hand, by talking to

> folks, but out here feasting seems to be the exception rather than the rule,

> whereas in the Southeast it is almost always integral to the event.


Caid, as i understand (having "played" there during the summer of

1988), has few camping event - most are, indeed, day-trip only.


I live in The West and most of our events at most levels are camping

(Kingdom, Principality, Barony, and occasionally Shire). Before my

back got really bad, i cooked mostly "period" food at events (now i

have days when i can't even lift the Coleman camp stove which really

weighs very little - and  on every day standing for extended periods

causes back pain).


But how people feel about the food is rather individual. I have a

number of friends who try to make mostly "period" food and i know

people for whom a camping event is mostly hot dogs and diet soda. So

i couldn't make blanket opinions about cultural attitudes.


Most feasts i've attended in branches of The West (since there are

few Kingdom level feasts) have been "period". Pot-luck feasts are

often not, but even then some contributors bring "period" food. Yet i

hear rumors that in some other kingdoms, "period" feasts are the



Now, as to what events have feasts, that is extremely variable from

place to place.


We have few feasts at our camping events. Since the vast majority our

camp sites have no available water, no showers, no electricity, and

porta-potties only (the exceptions being two county fair sites), it's

hardly surprising that we rarely have feasts at camping events. There

are a few exceptions - a recent shire event made arrangements to use

two large pavilions to shelter diners - i cooked for 150 for a

privately-sponsored feast at a kingdom event a couple years ago - and

i have attended a couple Mists Principality camping events that have

had pot-luck feasts.


However, we have a fair number of feasts at one-day branch events,

most of which serve "period" food.


So, it depends.


I'm always amazed to hear about Kingdoms that have camping events in

which people sleep in cabins and have feasts cooked in "feast halls"

that have electricity and plumbing!


More SCA inter-kingdom anthropology... or perhaps cultural geography...


Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)

the persona formerly known as Anahita



Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 14:35:10 -0700

From: "K C Francis" <katiracook at hotmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] IKA - head table seating? - Western


To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org


We have had 3 Crowns a year (March, June and October) from the beginning, so

it is really everyong else who did it differently.  And I've heard it was

because we can, weatherwise.  The Principalities here have 6 month reigns

just like everyone else.  Not sure how that happened or why.


Another interesting inter-kingdom difference is the way Royalty change.

Some years ago, I was horrified when the Mists Royalty changed in a hostile

takeover! I was told that in other Kingdoms this was normal!?!  Well, I

have since experienced a stabbed and dying Prince give the Principality to

his heir and a Prince who decide to become a monk.  Personally, I much

prefer the joyful and regal transfer of Crowns and Coronets to the heirs.

Many HAPPY tears.   And why, I ask, did all the examples above happen

in the Principality of the Mists?


Viscountess Katira

proud defender of the West and Western traditions



> From: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>

>> Sitting Royalty, or counts and dukes and viscounts?

>> If it's just sitting Royalty, how many do you have?

>> Most places have four couples at the most: King, Queen, Prince,

>> Princess, and their heirs.


>> Mordonna (inquiring minds want to know)


>> K C Francis <katiracook at hotmail.com> wrote:

>> This doesn't happen often, as we have so many Royals at

>> any given time, it is usually the problem of fitting in a large enough

>> table to hold them all.

> Well see, it's like this. The West Kingdom seems to kill off their Royalty

> much more often than do the other kingdoms (kinda like the Byzantines), so

> they need to keep more than the usual pair of spares around.

> Stefan



Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 16:36:20 -0700

From: "K C Francis" <katiracook at hotmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pennsic Article - West Kingdom History Site

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org


The West Kingdom has a History site with pictures and event descriptions of

as many events (from the beginning) as possible.  Here are the memories of

those who were there starting with what led up to the first event.




click on [year 1] to check out the flyer for that first event and  



Katira al-Maghrebiyya



Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 19:32:25 -0700

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Tiki Torch Recall

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org


Stefan wrote:

>   Selene mentioned:

>> We don't even bother buying this in Fire Danger Land, aka Caid.  Tiki

>> torches are not allowed at any of our war sites.

> At all? Or just when there is a "a no open flames" restriction? What

> do you mean by "our war sites"? Do you mean all outside camping  

> events?

> Tiki torches, at least in the generic sense and not a specific brand,

> are rather common in Ansteorra. Of course they may be restricted at

> particular events which are under a "no open flames ban".


Here in the West, Tiki Torches (generic) are utterly totally

thoroughly irrevocably forbidden at our events - since most are

camping - and there's no reason to have then at the one-day events.


Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)

the persona formerly known as Anahita



Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 23:00:10 -0700 (PDT)

From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Eric, was feast organization/service question

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>


> Margarite wrote:

>>> There have been events with pot-luck feasts on the Eric


>> what do you mean by Eric? I've seen this used before but I don't  

>> know what it means. (I'm in Ansteorra)


Well, Caid is, and probably always will be, a Western rite Scadian Kingdom.  We

still call the tourney field "the eric".  Although, I thought that the rope itself was red, and not just the flags.  It wouldn't surprise me if that  

first rope had been purchased by Master John ap Griffin [John Trimble] because he and his wife Mistress Flavia [Bjo Trimble] joined in A.S. 1 and because he had been a rope salesman for many many years before his retirement.  I had heard that the reason the rope was red was because the red rope wasn't selling well and he got it at a substantial discount, so that a lot of rope was purchased for  

relatively little money.


Huette, who wasn't there at the time.  I didn't join until 1974.



Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: djheydt at kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)

Subject: Re: The Fix is In

Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd.

Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 21:45:13 GMT


<quietire at popmail.com> wrote:

>Duke Havordh Aettarbani fighting for Duchess Mary Grace of Gatland has

>won Glean Abhain's Crown Tourney. Gee, they just stepped down a couple

>months ago. Sounds like a fix.


Not knowing you, or them, I don't know if your tongue is in your

cheek or not.


But I recall the time in the West Kingdom (several decades ago)

when the Crown of the West was won, and worn, by James Greyhelm

and Paul of Bellatrix, turn and turn about, for two solid years

(that's three reigns each).  More recently, Jade of Starfall has

been King of the West every other reign for several years

running, though recently he's slowed down a little.  There was no

fix in: James and Paul in their day, and Jade in his day, were

simply the best damn fighters in the West, and could win Crown

any day they set out to do so.


Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                         Dorothy J. Heydt

Mists/Mists/West                               Albany, California

PRO DEO ET REGE                               djheydt at kithrup.com



Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:49:30 -0800

From: Lilinah <lilinah at earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Feast costs/budgets

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org


Mykael Halfdan wrote:

<<< On another but related topic. The first feast I did on my own I had done all the research, planning and most of the purchasing (using up most of the budget) when I was informed, the weekend before the event, that I was also expected to prepare breakfast for Saturday and Sunday, all out of the same budget. When I questioned this I was informed that it was a standard expectation in our Kingdom (Meridies).


I satisfied this commitment but it was an extremely long day and if not for a very dedicated staff feast would have suffered. I have done a couple of more small feasts since then and have made accommodations for breakfast.


Is this a standard practice throughout the SCA? I find that this really impacts my focus on feast and would like to find some way to pass on breakfast. Should I consider a written contract that specifies my "services" for feast? >>>


The West Kingdom does no feasts regularly. Most of our Kingdom events

(3 Crowns, 2 Coronations, A&S Tourney - not counting wars) are

camping, often at undeveloped sites. Our Twelfth Night Coronation is

usually held at a hotel and is strictly BYO-food. The only occasional

West Kingdom feasts are at our Collegia, which are usually held once

or twice per year at schools, and sadly not well attended. Whether or

not there is a feast depends on the site. Schools do not give us

access to their real kitchens for legal reasons, so we must use the

room where they teach "home ec." (don't know what it's called these

days), *if* they have a room for this. And when they do, they often

have quite old and malfunctioning electric stoves.


The Principalities do their own thing (hey, we're in NoCal). I

confess ignorance over exactly what Oertha (Alaska) does - i'm sure

some Oerthan on this list can set us straight. The Principality of

the Mists, where i live and cook, has three feasts per year: two

Investitures, and the Bardic Competition and Feast. I *think* the

Principality of Cynagua has feasts at their Investitures, but i've

never attended.


Branches often sponsor feasts, and the majority of feasts within the

borders of the Kingdom are at branch events. Most branch events are

one day or one evening, although there are some that are weekend

camping. IIRC, the Barony of Darkwood has two feasts per year, while

the Barony of the Westermark has one (i don't know about Baronies in

Cynagua or Oertha). What the smaller branches do is varied, from no

feasts, to potlucks, to actual sit-down-&-be-served feasts. How

"period" they are is also quite varied.


Our feasts have never been truly large. They've tended to top out

around 80 at the nost, although i have cooked for 100 and 150. In

order to no longer be impoverishing their sponsors, within the

Principality of the Mists there is now a standardized size: 60 diners

and no more than $600. Our Royalty and their immediate retainers are

comped, so we are really feeding up to 72 on that budget, since up to

3 sets of royalty may show up.


I also don't know much about what they do in the Marches, which range

from far northern California - about a full day's drive from the SF

Bay area - to the border with Caid - good half-day's drive - to Guam,

Okinawa, and Japan.


The only time we ever have breakfasts or lunches at an event -

perhaps one to three times per year, if at all - is if someone

sponsors one as a fund raiser, either intrepid individuals or a

household or branch. The only time there is a dinner at a West or

Mists camping event is if someone sponsors one, either intrepid

individuals, a household, or a branch, or if the sitting Royalty

decree a potluck, any of which happen far less often than breakfasts.


Lately there have been "ice cream socials" and "lemonade stands" as

fund raisers at Kingdom summer events. While i'm not a stickler for

absolute and utter historical authenticity in all things at SCA

events, i find these to be quite jarring, especially when they are

"advertised" all around the Eric with signage (!!!) and hawkers, who

are "period", but not when they're shouting about popsicles. These

often have either or both Royal and autocrat sponsorship. The West

and its branches seem happy to have period food at feasts, why not

for fund raisers? (grumble, grumble, grumble)


Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)

the persona formerly known as Anahita



Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 13:40:34 -0700

From: Lilinah <lilinah at earthlink.net>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Uther, was Searching for Kingdom With Japanese


To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org


Lilinah wrote:

Since the actual heirs have been discovered in Northshield, i will not

bother to post that the upcoming King of the West (coronation in about

a wee) is a Viking beginning his 7th reign.


And 'Lainie

Uther _again_? Is he trying to catch up with Jade?


Well, Jade has reigned 15 times since 1987, and he tends to come out

to fight for the next reign after Uther. So if Uther can ever catch

up, it won't be until Jade retires. Of course i'm not counting

Uther's reign in An Tir last year. Plus we've had three other Dukes

with *8* reigns. I won't mind when Uther catches up to them.


Gunthar wrote:

<<< IMHO, Uther is BETTER than Jade. He fights with a

casual ease that is beautiful to watch. I consider

Uther one of the top 3 or 4 fighters in the SCA

right now. And, on top of that he is a very

quiet and almost humble man. He is also turning

into a bloody good rapier fighter.



I may have won 2 Crowns but he is what I

consider a duke! >>>


I think you have a few good points. As someone who doesn't drink much

alcohol, I find the quantity of alcohol he consumes on Saturday night

a bit disturbing - and he isn't always so quiet :-) But he is quite

sincere, which i appreciate, and i've never seen him be rude or



Additionally, his taking up rapier was rather daring in The West,

where rapier has been treated as an ugly step-sister until rather

recently. Several long-time and potent Westerners have long been

opposed to rapier. When Crown Prince Uther started learning it (and

wearing 16th C. garb, too! well, as least when he's fighting rapier)

that rather put the stamp of approval on it.


When he won this past June Crown Tourney, his speech to his consort,

Kara, as he placed the wreath upon her head, was really moving, and

i'm not easily moved. It was truly honest, heart-felt, and

beautifully spoken.


Plus he makes his squires learn to do Bardic work based on genuine

old tales and poems. He's not just about the fighting.


Essentially, my first SCA in the West was his coronation when he and

his consort, his sister Osa, who's nearly as tall as he is, were

carried in to court *standing* on their shields. That was quite a



Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)

the persona formerly known as Anahita



Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:16:47 -0400

From: euriol <euriol at ptd.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Crown Prince Uther & Duke Jade

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>


You can imagine my surprise when I saw Uther in his 16th century garb

getting ready for one of the Rapier tournaments at Pennsic along with

Viscount Brand. I thought they were trying to tweak with my brain. I also

was just amazed how much Uther spoke of his love for the Rapier and smiled

as I saw him maintaining his blade. Certainly a very big change in attitude

than what I had seen in the West many, many years ago (not specifically

from Uther, but just from heavy fighters in general).


I also thought it interesting how HRH Gunthar expressed his opinion of

Uther vs. Jade. I must say that I would be the flip side to that coin. Jade

was the first person I was told stories of when I first joined the SCA,

stories about his first Crown Tourney. Over the years, whenever I had a

chance to speak or spend time with Jade he always made me feel special.

This is a quality I see Jade share with almost everyone I've observed him

interact one on one with. It could have been no one else who would made it

more special to me than having Jade  & Eliana (a dear friend) elevate me to

the Order of the Pelican. I suppose that there is always one person that

you think of as your "Captain" for me it is Jade.





Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 11:24:23 -0800

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Subject: [Sca-cooks] An Event Without a Feast,      was Cookery book at

        Longleat House?


On Nov 8, 2009, at 8:40 AM, Judith Epstein wrote:

<<< Maybe a couple of events without feasts would clarify the issue of

the relative importance of cooks for them. >>>


Johnnae replied:

<<< You must understand that major events, even events like Crowns

and Coronations, routinely run without feasts in this kingdom.

Some offer hotel catered banquets that don't sell out and get canceled.

Others never plan a feast to start with.

Even the 40th ran with just lunch taverns. >>>


Well, out here in The West, there are NO Kingdom level events

guaranteed to have a feast.


We have no lunch tables, day boards, or feasts at our 3 Crown Tourney

and 2 Coronation camping events, including TWELFTH NIGHT Coronation,

which usually happens in a hotel and does NOT have a catered meal.

There's a room set aside for eating in where it's strictly BYO.


We used to have feasts at our two Collegia per year. But first each

Collegium went from a 2-day to a 1-day event with a feast on Saturday

night, and then feasts were curtailed for two reasons: 1) the sites

we usually use, schools, don't let us use there professional kitchens

and often have no home ec. room anymore, and when they do they

usually have home-grade not-fully-functional electric stoves; and 2)

not many people stayed for the feast. Now we're only having one

Collegium per year because it's such a money loser. Small groups of

dedicated foodies sponsored the Perfectly Period Feast in 2007

(English, early 15th c.) and next year there will be a late period

Spanish PPF.


I'm not very up on feasts in other Western Principalities and in our

Marches, but in The Principality of the Mists we have 3 feasts per

year: two Investitures, and one Bardic Competition and Feast, which

has been losing money. The Investiture Feasts are often poorly

attended, too, especially the Fall one (Nov. 21 this year) because

it's usually pouring rain and people want to get home before it's too

dark and dangerous to drive.


Some branches of the Mists have feasts in December - that's when most

of the feasts are. And because they're at branch level - barony (not

as big a deal out here, since they are subordinate to the

principality they're in), province, shire, canton, college - these

feasts are quite often not historically accurate, and often pot

lucks. Some branch "feasts" during the lighter time of the year are

just your basic American cook-outs.


So, no historical feasts? There are very few anyone would really

miss. Not much of a threat...


Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)

the persona formerly known as Anahita



Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:01:25 -0800

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Interkingdom Anthropology


Stefan wrote:

<<< Judith, you are in the Middle Kingdom, right?  Are you aware that it

is one of the few, if not the only one, that still has arguments over

what is an art vs. what is a science? Because it still has different

offices for each. >>>


Alys Katherine replied:

<<< No, we don't.  We haven't had separate offices for years.  While I can't

tell you when the switch was made, it was probably when the Society made

the switch.  I've seen a few places on the Internet where the two early

symbols for Art and for Science still exist, instead of the replacement

symbol of an arch and candle for the combined A&S. >>>


The West Kingdom and the Principality of the Mists both still have

separate Arts and Sciences officers. The Principality of Cynagua

switched recently to a single officer, this year i think. Branches

have only one A&S officer, when they have one - many do not.


There is currently talk about rolling them into one office at the

Kingdom level, and the Principality of the Mists may follow.


Urtatim al-Qurtubiyya bint 'abd al-Karim al-hakam al-Fassi

current Minister of Sciences


former Minister of Arts

Principality of the Mists



Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 10:22:24 -0800

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] 12th Nights


Johnnae wrote:

<<< Various 12th Nights are being held in the coming two weeks.


So what people planning or being served this year? >>>


West Kingdom has never had a feast as long as i've been in the SCA,

since Twelfth Night is usually held in a hotel.


There's always a large room with many tables set aside for people to

bring their own food, usually for lunch and snacks.


For dinner, everyone is on their own. People generally go to nearby

restaurants or eat in the hotel restaurant.


For the longest time, people who wanted to dance had to find a hall

or other public space (like a deserted lobby) to dance in. Appalling,

i know! Fortunately a couple people got together a few years ago and

with the support of some Duchesses, created a dance ball later on

Saturday night. Since certain of the organizers wanted a period

banqueting table, there is usually nothing but cloying sweets

available. I have no idea what's being planned this year, since no

requests for help or discussions took place on any of the local

e-lists i'm on.


And the whole night and well into the next morning there are parties

with *lots* of alcohol going on in peoples' private rooms.


So much for our Twelfth Night food.


Urtatim [that's err-tah-TEEM]

the persona formerly known as Anahita



Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 08:36:58 +1100

From: Shayne Lynch <maindroit at gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Lochac] Banned

To: lochac at lochac.sca.org


Re Juanna and the Fencing Ban.


That particular ban (one of many) was primarily due to the large range

of fencing rules throughout the West Kingdom (Oertha, Lochac, Mists).

That is was Jade said at the time, and I have no reason to doubt him.

The problem was fixed by the fencers of the kingdom pulling together

to formulate an agreed standard set of rules.


AT THE SAME TIME, Queen Juanna detailled her dislike of rapier, and it

became the focus of discontent.  She is a nice person, she is my

friend, and she doesn't like SCA fencing.  I visited the Central West

shortly after and I didn't really like what I saw of the fencing (and

the fencing attitude) displayed over there at times.


If you want to get bent out of shape about fencing, I suggest the

original ban circa 1987 which described metal fencing swords as "live

steel" and deplored the (ficticious) dozens of people killed in US

high school fencing incidents.


Francois Guyon.



From: Chris Zakes <dontivar at gmail.com>

Date: June 23, 2010 4:25:13 PM CDT

To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Black Scarf??


<<< Ok so I looked over the timeline suggested by Hanse for his class at King's College.....can someone please explain to me a 'Black Scarf??'  I've heard of a white scarf, but not a black scarf?




~Jeanne-Marie, who isn't new to the SCA, just new HERE  :) >>>


I'm not sure what Hanse is talking about, but at one time, Guildmasters (the first grant-level rapier award in the West Kingdom) wore a black scarf.


      -Tivar Moondragon



Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 14:53:17 -0700 (GMT-07:00)

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] The Naming of Names - slightly OOP


Stefan wrote:

<<< Which are the groups in the West which are provinces? I do remember

hearing that most people in the Mists played at a principality level

rather than at a baronial level, so this makes more sense now. >>>


We only do it to annoy because we know it teases:

we have the Province of the Mists


the Principality of the Mists.

The Province of the Mists, where the SCA began, is within the Principality of the Mists.

In the Principality of the Mists is also the Province of Southern Shores.


The Principality of the Mists has 13 active branches (two others, both Colleges, are dormant for the moment).


The other principality in the central West Kingdom is the Principality of Cynagua (a pun i believe...)

It contains the Province of Golden Rivers (Sacramento CA)


the Province of Silver Desert (Reno/Sparks, Nevada)


Our third Principality, that of Oertha - that is, Alaska - has, to the best of my knowledge, no provinces.


Urtatim [that's err-tah-TEEM]

the persona formerly known as Anahita



Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 20:53:10 -0400 (EDT)

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

To: SCA-Cooks <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] The Naming of Names - slightly OOP


Stefan wrote:

<<< Which are the groups in the West which are provinces? I do remember

hearing that most people in the Mists played at a principality level

rather than at a baronial level, so this makes more sense now. >>>


While i mentioned the two provinces with the Principality of the Mists: the Province of the Mists - which is mostly the East Bay (Berkeley, Oakland, Alameda, and more) - and Southern Shores - which is more or less the city of San Jose+, i neglected to mention that there are three baronies within the Principality of the Mists:

-- The Barony of Darkwood, which encompasses So. Santa Clara, Santa Cruz, San Benito and Monterey counties, including the cities of King City, Salinas, Monterey, Santa Cruz, and other tasty bits, and has three active cantons;

-- The Barony of the Westermark, which is San Mateo county, the county immediately south of "the City and County of San Francisco";


-- The Barony of Vinhold, which is Napa, SW Solano, and east Sonoma Counties (lotsa wine country...)


The Principality of Cynagua has two:

-- The Barony of Fettburg (San Joaquin County, including the cities of Stockton, Manteca, and Modesto);

-- The Barony of Rivenoak (the city of Chico).


The Principality of Oertha has three:

-- The Barony of Eskalya (the greater Anchorage area);

-- The Barony of Selviergard (Eagle River to the Matanuska-Susitna Valley - i'd have to look at a map to figure out where this is);

-- The Barony of Winter's Gate (Northern Alaska, primarily the Fairbanks & North Pole Interior Region) ...where Santa Claus plays...


Baronies in the West are branches/subjects of the Principalities within which they lie, if they are in a principality. Lands which are not within principalities are called The Marches and include many different kind of territories, including:

-- The Barony of Allyshia (Humboldt County in far northern California)

-- The Barony of Tarnmist (San Luis Obispo County, just north of Caid)

-- The Palatine Barony of the Far West (the Asia-Pacific Rim parts of the West Kingdom, including Korea, Japan, Okinawa, Thailand, & Guam, including a number of military bases and ships, called Strongholds)


More than most on this list ever wanted to know.


Urtatim [that's err-tah-TEEM]

the persona formerly known as Anahita


<the end>

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