SCA-cheers-msg - 11/15/08 Which kingdoms use which cheers? Vivat vs. Huzzah. The history of these cheers. NOTE: See also these files: SCA-hist1-msg, SCA-stories1-msg, border-stories-msg, child-stories-msg, placenames-msg, P-Polit-Songs-art, p-swears-msg, SCA-dishes-art. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 05:14:35 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lyle H. Gray" Subject: Re: [SCA-AS] Huzzah/Vivat? To: Arts and Sciences in the SCA On Sat, 22 Jul 2006, Anna Troy wrote: <<< This is a slightly strange question but since this is the largest list I'm on here goes. Which kingdoms shout Huzzah at court and which shout Vivat/Vivant? Does anyone know how and why this divide occured? >>> East Kingdom uses Vivat/Vivant. Regards, Lyle FitzWilliam Bergental, East Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 02:35:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Anna Troy Subject: Re: [SCA-AS] Huzzah/Vivat? To: Arts and Sciences in the SCA Drachenwald is a Vivat kingdom 8-) Anna de Byxe Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 03:31:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Elyse Boucher Subject: Re: [SCA-AS] Huzzah/Vivat? To: Arts and Sciences in the SCA --- Anna Troy wrote: <<< This is a slightly strange question but since this is the largest list I'm on here goes. Which kingdoms shout Huzzah at court and which shout Vivat/Vivant? Does anyone know how and why this divide occured? Anna de Byxe >>> Northshield uses vivant/vivat in court (the first Prince by right of arms was nurtured in Atlantia) and skol in the feast hall (owing to the large number of people who are modernly of Scandinavian descent (Norwegian, myself) in the kingdom). The Middle uses "Hoobah!"--stems from the days of yore, when a couple of venerable and ancient Dukes were trying to encourage some budding belly dancers with shouts of "hubba, hubba!" It just sort of morphed from there, but I can not tell you how, for the transformation from one to the other was complete by the time I arrived in the Midrealm. To the best of my knowledge, none of the sons of the Dragon (Calontir, Ealdomere, Northshield) use Hoobah. IIRC, Huzzah is primarily used in the Kingdoms to the west of us. Don't quote me, though. Based on this, my *guess* as to the origin of the split comes from the simple fact that the East wanted something different from the West, and the Middle went its own oddball way, leaving the kingdoms who would eventually split off from the first 3 to choose their own paths. Yours, Merouda Pendray Modern: Elyse C. Boucher, West Allis, WI SCA: Merouda Pendray, Caer Anterth Mawr, Northshield Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 08:13:46 -0400 From: "Jonathan E. Feinstein" Subject: RE: [SCA-AS] Huzzah/Vivat? To: "'Arts and Sciences in the SCA'" The Vivat/vivant cheer began in the East sometime around A.S. 10 or 11 as a move to get away from the "hip, hip, hurray" cheer that was used earlier. So far as I know the kingdoms that split off from the East from that time forward also use "vivat/vivant" As someone also mentioned the Middle started the "Hoobah" tradition, although I would note that fairly early on quite a few of us pronounced it "Poohbah" which I think started out as a parody and some how stuck for a while. Of course during that same period I came across a group there who yelled "Maalox" so... Yosef Alaric Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 12:43:53 -0400 From: Ealasaid Subject: Re: [SCA-AS] Huzzah/Vivat? To: Arts and Sciences in the SCA Atenveldt uses hip hip Huzzah. Ealasaid Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:12:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Jan Ward Subject: RE: [SCA-AS] Huzzah/Vivat? To: Jonathan at sc2.com, Arts and Sciences in the SCA Caid uses "hip hip HUZZAH", as does the West. One barony in the West sometimes used "Uffda". Edwinna Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 19:25:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Yisroaela Subject: Re: [SCA-AS] Huzzah/Vivat? To: Arts and Sciences in the SCA <<< Anna Troy wrote: Drachenwald is a Vivat kingdom 8-) Anna de Byxe >>> so is Trimaris Yis Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 21:38:43 -0600 From: "Kathleen A Roberts" Subject: Re: [SCA-AS] Huzzah/Vivat? To: Arts and Sciences in the SCA the outlands shouts "huzzah!" cailte Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 00:41:28 -0400 (EDT) From: tecklameadow at planet-save.com Subject: Re: [SCA-AS] Huzzah/Vivat? To: "Arts and Sciences in the SCA" Artemisia is a Vivat place. Teckla Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 13:35:46 -0400 From: rmhowe Subject: Re: [SCA-AS] Huzzah/Vivat? To: Arts and Sciences in the SCA Jonathan E. Feinstein wrote: <<< The Vivat/vivant cheer began in the East sometime around A.S. 10 or 11 as a move to get away from the "hip, hip, hurray" cheer that was used earlier. So far as I know the kingdoms that split off from the East from that time forward also use "vivat/vivant" >>> Atlantia does. Atlantia descended from the East sometime around the end of 1980. I joined the SCA here in October 1981. First event was the Second Crown Tourney in November 1981. The Barony of Windmasters Hill in central Atlantia has the Kittyhawk as its symbol - 'First in Flight' at Kittyhawk on the coast and all. Sometimes during awards people mew like cats. Attilium [Fort Bragg/Fayetteville] has a rather high pitched WaaaHaaaaa! we hear sometimes. That is one of the five/six cantons. Seymour Johnson AFB near Bragg is incipient I think. Then there is the OOOO! AAAAAH!, OOOOH! often heard during scroll viewings in court. Rather silly bunch of sods hereabouts. <<< As someone also mentioned the Middle started the "Hoobah" tradition, although I would note that fairly early on quite a few of us pronounced it "Poohbah" which I think started out as a parody and some how stuck for a while. Of course during that same period I came across a group there who yelled "Maalox" so... >>> So.... What does the Great Dark Horde yell in the Middle? We began there but I am unaware of that particular detail. Seems to me Huzzah! is a post period English Military cheer. One the Americans chose not to use during the Revolution and since. The Armed Forces here use different cheers. Originally I think the Revolutionary soldiers used Hurrah! Hoo-Ahh! for the Army can mean anything from a cheer to an acknowledgement to acceptance of situation/orders depending on how it is used in tone and volume. The Marines use something else I should be able to remember. Don't know about the Air Force or Coast Guard. Magnus Windmaster, Manx, Great Dark Horde brother, SCA OL Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 20:09:31 -0400 From: rmhowe Subject: Re: [SCA-AS] Huzzah/Vivat? To: Arts and Sciences in the SCA Jonathan E. Feinstein wrote: -----Original Message----- > Then there is the OOOO! AAAAAH!, OOOOH! often heard during > scroll viewings in court. Rather silly bunch of sods hereabouts. Agreed. That all started in one particular Eastern court when the court herald (I won't mention his name in case he;s trying to live it down )himself got a bit silly and called for a cheer for the scroll and led the people in "ooo, ahh, ohh." After that the populace kept it up on their own and by the end of the court is was as nearly a permanent institution as anything in the SCA is... > So.... What does the Great Dark Horde yell in the Middle? > We began there but I am unaware of that particular detail. I don't recall that the Great Dark Horde shouted anything different in court unless one of their own were being honhored in which case it was not uncommon to hear "WETSU" (an acronym for We Endeavor To Succeed Universally) from both Horde and Horde-friends. "Wetsu" was also a battle cry at times. Yosef ------------------------- In around 11 years that is the first time I have heard an explanation for that term. [Silly I know, I never thought to ask.] That sounds like something Yang would have invented. We were invited to join sometime around 1995 but still stood watch like everyone else. Thanks, Yosef. Magnus Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 22:21:11 -0400 From: "Jonathan E. Feinstein" Subject: RE: [SCA-AS] Huzzah/Vivat? To: "'Arts and Sciences in the SCA'" <<< In around 11 years that is the first time I have heard an explanation for that term. [Silly I know, I never thought to ask.] That sounds like something Yang would have invented. We were invited to join sometime around 1995 but still stood watch like everyone else. >>> You're very welcome, Magnus. It may have been Yang who came up with it. As you say, it sounds like his style. It was pretty well established by the time I joined the SCA in 1973. However, I've learned over the years that a lot of songs that were attributed to Yang, had actually been written by one of the other HAMMS, so who knows? Yosef Edited by Mark S. Harris SCA-cheers-msg Page 6 of 7