SCA-cheers-msg - 11/15/08
Which kingdoms use which cheers? Vivat vs. Huzzah. The history of these cheers.
NOTE: See also these files: SCA-hist1-msg, SCA-stories1-msg, border-stories-msg, child-stories-msg, placenames-msg, P-Polit-Songs-art, p-swears-msg, SCA-dishes-art.
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Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 05:14:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Lyle H. Gray" <gray at cs.umass.edu>
Subject: Re: [SCA-AS] Huzzah/Vivat?
To: Arts and Sciences in the SCA <artssciences at lists.gallowglass.org>
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006, Anna Troy wrote:
<<< This is a slightly strange question but since this is
the largest list I'm on here goes. Which kingdoms
shout Huzzah at court and which shout Vivat/Vivant?
Does anyone know how and why this divide occured? >>>
East Kingdom uses Vivat/Vivant.
Regards,
Lyle FitzWilliam
Bergental, East
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 02:35:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anna Troy <owly3 at yahoo.se>
Subject: Re: [SCA-AS] Huzzah/Vivat?
To: Arts and Sciences in the SCA <artssciences at lists.gallowglass.org>
Drachenwald is a Vivat kingdom 8-)
Anna de Byxe
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 03:31:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Elyse Boucher <elyseboucher at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [SCA-AS] Huzzah/Vivat?
To: Arts and Sciences in the SCA <artssciences at lists.gallowglass.org>
--- Anna Troy <owly3 at yahoo.se> wrote:
<<< This is a slightly strange question but since this is
the largest list I'm on here goes. Which kingdoms
shout Huzzah at court and which shout Vivat/Vivant?
Does anyone know how and why this divide occured?
Anna de Byxe >>>
Northshield uses vivant/vivat in court (the first
Prince by right of arms was nurtured in Atlantia) and
skol in the feast hall (owing to the large number of
people who are modernly of Scandinavian descent
(Norwegian, myself) in the kingdom).
The Middle uses "Hoobah!"--stems from the days of
yore, when a couple of venerable and ancient Dukes
were trying to encourage some budding belly dancers
with shouts of "hubba, hubba!" It just sort of morphed
from there, but I can not tell you how, for the
transformation from one to the other was complete by
the time I arrived in the Midrealm. To the best of my
knowledge, none of the sons of the Dragon (Calontir,
Ealdomere, Northshield) use Hoobah.
IIRC, Huzzah is primarily used in the Kingdoms to the
west of us. Don't quote me, though. Based on this, my
*guess* as to the origin of the split comes from the
simple fact that the East wanted something different
from the West, and the Middle went its own oddball
way, leaving the kingdoms who would eventually split
off from the first 3 to choose their own paths.
Yours, Merouda Pendray
Modern: Elyse C. Boucher, West Allis, WI
SCA: Merouda Pendray, Caer Anterth Mawr, Northshield
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 08:13:46 -0400
From: "Jonathan E. Feinstein" <jonathan at sc2.com>
Subject: RE: [SCA-AS] Huzzah/Vivat?
To: "'Arts and Sciences in the SCA'"
<artssciences at lists.gallowglass.org>
The Vivat/vivant cheer began in the East sometime around A.S. 10 or 11 as a
move to get away from the "hip, hip, hurray" cheer that was used earlier. So
far as I know the kingdoms that split off from the East from that time
forward also use "vivat/vivant"
As someone also mentioned the Middle started the "Hoobah" tradition,
although I would note that fairly early on quite a few of us pronounced it
"Poohbah" which I think started out as a parody and some how stuck for a
while. Of course during that same period I came across a group there who
yelled "Maalox" so...
Yosef Alaric
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 12:43:53 -0400
From: Ealasaid <ealasaid at cox.net>
Subject: Re: [SCA-AS] Huzzah/Vivat?
To: Arts and Sciences in the SCA <artssciences at lists.gallowglass.org>
Atenveldt uses hip hip Huzzah.
Ealasaid
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:12:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jan Ward <hawksbluff at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [SCA-AS] Huzzah/Vivat?
To: Jonathan at sc2.com, Arts and Sciences in the SCA
<artssciences at lists.gallowglass.org>
Caid uses "hip hip HUZZAH", as does the West. One barony in the West sometimes used "Uffda".
Edwinna
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 19:25:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Yisroaela <yisroaela at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [SCA-AS] Huzzah/Vivat?
To: Arts and Sciences in the SCA <artssciences at lists.gallowglass.org>
<<< Anna Troy <owly3 at yahoo.se> wrote:
Drachenwald is a Vivat kingdom 8-)
Anna de Byxe >>>
so is Trimaris
Yis
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 21:38:43 -0600
From: "Kathleen A Roberts" <karobert at unm.edu>
Subject: Re: [SCA-AS] Huzzah/Vivat?
To: Arts and Sciences in the SCA <artssciences at lists.gallowglass.org>
the outlands shouts "huzzah!"
cailte
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 00:41:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: tecklameadow at planet-save.com
Subject: Re: [SCA-AS] Huzzah/Vivat?
To: "Arts and Sciences in the SCA"
<artssciences at lists.gallowglass.org>
Artemisia is a Vivat place.
Teckla
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 13:35:46 -0400
From: rmhowe <mmagnusm at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: [SCA-AS] Huzzah/Vivat?
To: Arts and Sciences in the SCA <artssciences at lists.gallowglass.org>
Jonathan E. Feinstein wrote:
<<< The Vivat/vivant cheer began in the East sometime around A.S. 10 or 11 as a
move to get away from the "hip, hip, hurray" cheer that was used earlier. So
far as I know the kingdoms that split off from the East from that time
forward also use "vivat/vivant" >>>
Atlantia does. Atlantia descended from the East sometime around the end of
1980. I joined the SCA here in October 1981. First event was the Second
Crown Tourney in November 1981.
The Barony of Windmasters Hill in central Atlantia has the Kittyhawk as
its symbol - 'First in Flight' at Kittyhawk on the coast and all. Sometimes
during awards people mew like cats. Attilium [Fort Bragg/Fayetteville]
has a rather high pitched WaaaHaaaaa! we hear sometimes. That is one
of the five/six cantons. Seymour Johnson AFB near Bragg is incipient I think.
Then there is the OOOO! AAAAAH!, OOOOH! often heard during
scroll viewings in court. Rather silly bunch of sods hereabouts.
<<< As someone also mentioned the Middle started the "Hoobah" tradition,
although I would note that fairly early on quite a few of us pronounced it
"Poohbah" which I think started out as a parody and some how stuck for a
while. Of course during that same period I came across a group there who
yelled "Maalox" so... >>>
So.... What does the Great Dark Horde yell in the Middle?
We began there but I am unaware of that particular detail.
Seems to me Huzzah! is a post period English Military cheer.
One the Americans chose not to use during the Revolution
and since. The Armed Forces here use different cheers.
Originally I think the Revolutionary soldiers used Hurrah!
Hoo-Ahh! for the Army can mean anything from a cheer
to an acknowledgement to acceptance of situation/orders depending
on how it is used in tone and volume. The Marines use something
else I should be able to remember.
Don't know about the Air Force or Coast Guard.
Magnus
Windmaster, Manx, Great Dark Horde brother, SCA OL
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 20:09:31 -0400
From: rmhowe <mmagnusm at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: [SCA-AS] Huzzah/Vivat?
To: Arts and Sciences in the SCA <artssciences at lists.gallowglass.org>
Jonathan E. Feinstein wrote:
-----Original Message-----
> Then there is the OOOO! AAAAAH!, OOOOH! often heard during
> scroll viewings in court. Rather silly bunch of sods hereabouts.
Agreed. That all started in one particular Eastern court when the
court herald (I won't mention his name in case he;s trying to live it down
<g>)himself got a bit silly and called for a cheer for the scroll and led
the people in "ooo, ahh, ohh." After that the populace kept it up on their
own and by the end of the court is was as nearly a permanent institution as
anything in the SCA is...
> So.... What does the Great Dark Horde yell in the Middle?
> We began there but I am unaware of that particular detail.
I don't recall that the Great Dark Horde shouted anything different
in court unless one of their own were being honhored in which case it was
not uncommon to hear "WETSU" (an acronym for We Endeavor To Succeed
Universally) from both Horde and Horde-friends. "Wetsu" was also a battle
cry at times.
Yosef
-------------------------
In around 11 years that is the first time I have heard an explanation for that
term.
[Silly I know, I never thought to ask.] That sounds like something Yang would
have invented. We were invited to join sometime around 1995 but still stood
watch like everyone else.
Thanks, Yosef.
Magnus
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 22:21:11 -0400
From: "Jonathan E. Feinstein" <jonathan at sc2.com>
Subject: RE: [SCA-AS] Huzzah/Vivat?
To: "'Arts and Sciences in the SCA'"
<artssciences at lists.gallowglass.org>
<<< In around 11 years that is the first time I have heard an
explanation for that term.
[Silly I know, I never thought to ask.] That sounds like something Yang would
have invented. We were invited to join sometime around 1995 but still stood
watch like everyone else. >>>
You're very welcome, Magnus. It may have been Yang who came up with
it. As you say, it sounds like his style. It was pretty well established by
the time I joined the SCA in 1973. However, I've learned over the years that
a lot of songs that were attributed to Yang, had actually been written by
one of the other HAMMS, so who knows?
Yosef
<the end>