Outl-hist-msg - 3/10/13 Histories of the Kingdom of the Outlands. NOTE: See also the files: SCA-hist1-msg, Aten-hist-msg, SCA-stories1-msg, SCA-in-books-msg, placenames-msg, vanity-plates-msg, you-know-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: sandradodd at aol.com (SandraDodd) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Courtesy and Crisis (repost) Date: 6 Oct 1994 14:14:03 -0400 I just posted something on "Re: If the SCA's broken, what's your top 5 things to fix?" about expecting board members to be honorable and chivalrous. Then I found Arval's repost of this article on courtesy. My personal position has been interpreted by many as plastered to the conservative wall. For now I'm just going to ask people to consider this: When we had a king and queen in the Outlands whom many of us considered were being dishonorable on the throne, six of us (all the former kings and queens at that time, as it was the fourth reign) took action to ask them to resign, and the ultimate result was that their reign was shortened, and we were all banished (not for long, but it's an exciting thing to have on my SCA resume ). AElflaed of Duckford scourge of kings (and board members) who don't sit up straight and pay attention [No, I guess scourging isn't sweet and courteous enough. How about gentle counselor of kings and board members...? No, I'm not always that gentle...] From: SandraDodd at aol.com (10/19/94) To: markharris Mail*Link® SMTP banishment Stefan, It's a *really* long story, but we asked them in writing, with a copy to the other peers of the realm, asking them all to keep it confidential among peers. Some peers didn't like what we were doing (a minority) and it all got put before the board, Hilary tried to negotiate a settlement, Greyraven got involved and mucked things up worse, they were made to step down at the end of the tournament to choose their successors, and we were banished from the opening court of that day to the end of their reign (later that day), banishment from the presence, because we had offended them, and so we hung out on the sidelines without regalia (which we had ceremoniously divested ourselves of in court when we were banished, having known what was up and so dressed up like we were going to play strip poker). For the first time in a couple of months, we were able to tell people what was going on. Since we had asked the peers to keep it among peers, we had been refusing to give gory gossipy details to non-peers, but with our titles withheld and all (however banishment was set up in those times), we were non-peers for the time being, and we spilled the whole story with great glee and gusto to anyone who asked. One of the things which had happened was there had been a formal hearing (Hilary came to Denver) at which a couple of true instances had been examined without using the true names of the principals. Johan von Balduinsek had been referred to in those procedings as "Joe Bob" and so for our banishment time he was Joe-Bob, Artan was Jeff-Bob, Gunwaldt was Keith-Bob... Someday if we're in the same place at the same time, I can tell you stories. (Or ask Gunwaldt someday. He's more likely to be hanging out down there with time to shoot the breeze.) AElflaed From: kballar at mirac.unm.edu (Kathryn Ballard CIRT) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: lists of former royalty Date: 11 Dec 1995 15:27:53 GMT Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque joan nicholson (gryphon at caverns.COM) wrote: : The Outlands keeps a full record of all the Outlandish Royals at: : http://history.outlands.sca.org/Contents1.html : Prydwen The above site is still under construction, and the list available there does not give the exact date of Coronations. A complete list with all the dates can be found with the herald reports under my Outlands pages. http://www.unm.edu/~kballar/outlands.html or directly k&qs.html Kathryn of Iveragh, Wimble Herald, Outlands -- Kathryn Ballard UNM CIRT IBM Systems Email: kballar at unm.edu WWW: http://www.unm.edu/~kballar/ From: sandradodd at aol.com (SandraDodd) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Sir vs. Master Date: 13 Dec 1995 11:19:44 -0500 << This has caused some difficulty over the last 30 years when on occasion the Masters decide to prove that they aren't in fealty by fighting on the "wrong" side of wars. But that's another story.>> We've had knights do that (one recently) but never a Master of Arms. <> The Outlands is nearly ten years old and hasn't made a Master of Arms. I've had kings tell me they would not do it, and while they could manage to pull that off, if someone REALLY wanted to be a Master we would point at the place in Corpora that says the king may offer someone membership in the Order of Chivalry, and the candidate chooses whether to be a knight or a master. What actually is said is, "Will you accept knighthood..." That's what was said when Gunwaldt was offered, very long ago (1977?) and he said "no." That's the way people became masters of arms (and perhaps would again, if any were to have wanted to do so)--the guy had to take the risk that the king would say, "Okay then, NEXT?" instead of "Will you accept the rank of Master of Arms?" or whatever. At one time long, long ago, from which days few are left to tell in our kingdom, knighthood was not as well respected as it is now. We were living with history from the beginning. Outlanders now are not faced with very many living bad examples, and so the option to be a knight looks better to them in A.S. XXX than it would have in A.S.XI. The average is SO much higher than even Master Gunwaldt's very-Viking squire accepted knighthood as his first choice. It wouldn't bother me at all one way or the other, if the option is exercised or not. The active presence of Master Gunwaldt Gulbjorn (my lord husband) after all these years has served to spur knights to greater glory. If they want to feel they're better than Masters of Arms, they have a high mark to aim for in the Outlands. Ironic, I suppose, but very good for the kingdom. I'm proud of the high expectations people have of knights, and all peers, in the Outlands, and I'm proud of the lengths people go to here to meet those expectations. AElflaed of Duckford From: Catherine Hensley Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: YKYITSCAW... Date: 18 Jun 1996 20:05:48 GMT Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote: >In article <4pu0cn$95m at news.ccit.arizona.edu>, >Jason Kolton wrote: >>...Basically a deer crossing >sign. > >On the other hand, I hear that in Outlands, where a stag is the >major charge on all the kingdom badges, they go around in the >mountains painting little crowns on all the deer crossing signs. >Anybody from Outlands able to verify this? Actually, the Outlands kingdom device *is* a deer crossing sign, with a few additions (the deer is green, not black, and its antlers may be silver , plus a crown, laurel wreath, border). Also, the kingdom badge is the same deer and border. You'll see it on many Outlands vehicles. For ease of application, and also for speed, the crowns that are pasted on deer crossing signs are actually wide green tape cut in the shape of a crown. Stop the car on the way to an event, slap that crown up there, and be on your way before anyone in the State Police catches you. This stunt seems to have started with House Ivarson, as far as I know, and has since spread. (Lief Ivarson is an Outlands duke, now living in Atenvelt.) Aithne, Anlieplic Dun, Outlands From: sandradodd at aol.com (SandraDodd) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Names of Kingdoms? Date: 7 Sep 1996 15:05:54 -0400 In old Atenveldt days, the barony (then all of the Phoenix area) was called Atenveldt and the rest of the kingdom (a few groups in Arizona, plus Caerthe, Great River, Stargate, Steppes, and not much more at first, was "the Outlands" (meaning "not Phoenix"). In those days, there were not Kingdom boundaries as there are now. There were states which were not in any kingdom. Those assignments were made in the late 1970's, and the term "Outlands" was around since mid-70's. When the Outlands formed up as a region, the boundary was set at the Arizona border. This meant that the other groups in Arizona, including Tir Ysgithr, which were at one time referred to as "the Outlands" were no longer part of that. It's about that time the "the Principality of the Sun" slipped into existence, probably in part to cover that lack of terminology to cover non-barony-of-Atenveldt which wasn't in another principality (Meridies, Ansteorra or Outlands). Word came back in November/December of the first year the Outlands was a principality that the name was unacceptable to the College of Arms. There was an officers' meeting the morning after the investiture of Heinrich, the second prince, at which this was discussed. I was newly-made principality seneschal. The Herald was directed to submit "Outenlendes," an attempt at Middle English. He wanted "Utanwayard" and nobody at the meeting could stand it. He was instructed to submit that as backup/second choice, but, we later found out, he didn't. Utanwayard was passed. Nothing good every came of it except that in the principality laws an advisory council was named, and called the Utanwayardenmoot. People still said "Outlands." A couple of years later the formal request for a name restoration went through, and I was sitting at the table at the board meeting (as Steward) when the Laurel King of Arms was preparing to explain why he was planning to reject it. As well as I can remember, this was the conversation: "What is it 'OUT' of though?" I said, "The same thing the West is West of, the East is East of and the Middle's in the Middle of." We won the appeal. AElflaed of Duckford From: dlblanc at earthlink.net (Donald L. Blanchard) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Collecting Scadian Folklore Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 10:54:20 GMT On 8 Mar 1997 18:31:02 GMT, bekka1 at ix.netcom.com(rebecca fildes) wrote: >I am (and have been for quite a while) trying to collect Scadian >folklore and folksong (or should that be 'filksong'). Most gentle Lady: I am newly subscribed to Rialto, so I know not whether this tale has been told before. I have found, however, that few now active in my Barony have heard of the story, so I suspect it may not be widely known elsewhere. The tale is true, and I will tell it to you, as best my failing memory allows, just as it was told to me so many years ago, by someone who was actually there. The Barony of Caerthe may not be one of the oldest baronies in the Known World; there must be one or two hands of baronies that preceeded it. Yet it may be the oldest, perchance the only Barony whose origins are truly lost in antiquity. (I joined the Barony in June of Anno Societatus VIII, being 1973 of the Christian Era, and the tale was already old when it was told to me.) Caerthe was founded by a High School Medieval Club in the area of Denver, Colorado. (How the group learned of the S.C.A. was not related to me.) It was the policy of the Board of Directors at that time that a legal agent be appointed for every state in which a barony was founded, whose responsibility it was to register the Corporation with the local Secretary of State. (In those days, a barony was the smallest, and I believe the only sized branch which the B.O.D. chartered.) The High School Medieval Club's faculty advisor was unwilling to assume this responsibility, and there existed no other member with sufficient years to pursue such legal matters. While Caerthe thus functioned in a state of legal limbo, a lady from the local Denver Area Science Fiction Association (DASFA), one Judith de Beaumont (later Mistress Judith de Beaumont, O.P.) chanced to attend an SF convention out in the Land of the Mists, at which was staged an S.C.A. demo. Upon returning to her homeland, Judith wrote a missive to the Board of Directors asking if she could establish a branch here in Colorado. As she was the first adult from which the BOD had received correspondence, they immediately sent her a return missive, stating that a barony already existed, that its name was Caerthe, and that she was Seneschal (i.e. legal agent). Now Judith de Beaumont is a very gracious lady, and has done much in the service of the Society (it was she who ultimately recruited me into the Barony), but tact and diplomacy, particularly when dealing with tempermental teenagers, was not a dominant feature of her personality. It is reported only that when she called the Baroness of Caerthe and told her (the Baroness) that she (Judith) was the new Seneschal, the Baroness threw the proverbial fit. Suffice it to tell that neither the (former) Baroness nor her followers has never been seen since. Thus was it left for Judith to recruit an entirely new membership for the Barony, which she found primarily within the membership of DASFA (the SF group). Now, it happens that there was one girl who was a member of DASFA who was also a member (albeit a peripheral one) of the High School Medieval Club; it was she from whom I first heard this tale. Regrettably, she was not present at the meeting in which the Barony's name was chosen, nor when its device was created, and thus has no knowledge of the meaning or derivation of the name "Caerthe." (It is widely believed that the name derives in part from the Welsh word 'caer,' taken to mean a stone fortress -- and that the Chief embattled of the Barony's device represents the battlements to be found on such an edifice, but this is and forever shall remain pure speculation.) Thus the true origins of the Barony of Caerthe and the meaning of its name are genuinely lost in antiquity; it is my honest and humble belief that no person in the Known World knows more than I have here related. Written by my hand on this the Eleventh day of March in the year XXXI of the Society. __ Louis leBlanc, O.L. | Donald L. Blanchard Barony of Caerthe | dlblanc at earthlink.net Kingdom of the Outlands | Denver, Colorado, USA From: "Jeanne Stapleton" Organization: Univ. of Denver, College of Law To: nweders at mail.utexas.edu (ND Wederstrandt), ansteorra at eden.com Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 17:21:04 -700 MST Subject: Re: Lion of Ansteorra The noble lady Clare asks: > I am curious since the concept of the Lion originated for us from > Atenveldt, how it is handled to our neighbors to the West? Does the > award get handed out automatically or do they skip reigns. Did > Artemsia and the Outlands continue the tradition and how have they > handled when and how they give it out. I do not know what Artemisia's award structure is to be. The Outlands does not have a Lion (think about the initials for just a sec...Lion Of the Outlands...whoops...). I am not sure why this is so, not being thoroughly versed in the lore of my adoptive kingdom. What we do have it the Walker of the Way (WOW :-)) for those who embody the ideals of the Dream (tm). Now, *An Tir* on the other hand adopted and adapted the Lion of An Tir in the (second?) reign of Tjorkill and Hlutwige. I'm not sure how that came about exactly, but I suspect they came to know of the idea via Master Korwyn Ariannaid, who was living in the same barony at the time. Anyway, it has *not* been given every reign; I'm not sure why some Crowns chose to bestow it and others didn't. I don't think it's because they felt there was no one worthy of the award. I was very fortunate to be present when our predecessors bestowed the Lion of An Tir on Baroness Amanda Kendal of Westmorland from Lion's Gate at the Council of Crowns in An Tir. Duke Inman was on the throne of Ansteorra and was present, as was Baron Hossein; they both came forward to be part of the ceremony, which I know meant a great deal to Amanda. I was even more fortunate to be the Crown that presented the Lion of An Tir to the Dowager Princess Janeltis, now departed from this mortal plane. That was one of the signal moments of my SCA life. I've been reading a little on and off about how Lions are chosen in Ansteorra, but I don't remember the particulars, I'm afraid. The principal Lion of An Tir keeps a list and periodically polls the members and presents a list to the Crown with everyone who's been nominated and how the members ranked them in order from 1-? as being the embodiment of the ideals of An Tir. The Crown can then pick from the list, or not, at Their will. We didn't pick from the list; I came up with someone who wasn't on it and proposed Her Serene Highness to Rorik (my king), but the Lions all kind of smacked themselves in the head and said the equivalent of, "D'oh!" when I mentioned Janeltis. Countess Berengaria de Montfort de Carcassonne, OP Barony of Caerthe Kingdom of the Outlands Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 21:16:52 -0400 From: aldyth at aol.com Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Midrealm News regarding royalty OT OP To: grizly at mindspring.com, sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org It happened in the Outlands years ago. One of the combatants mailed in his renewal. Crown was on a Saturday. The renewal was processed/received on the following Monday. He won. He called on Monday to make sure it had been received. His phone call, and the reason why (cause he won) resulted in the tourney being invalidated, and another done at our Coronation. What our kingdom does now to make sure that doesn't ever happen again is just a change in procedure. The Kingdom Seneschal checks the membership of each combatant and consort thru Milpitas the Thursday before our Crown Tourney. Not current and in good standing, cannot fight/be fought for in the tourney. No exceptions. I don't know the timetable of Crown to Coronation in the MIddle. It seems to me it could have been identified as a problem before Coronation though. I think the BoD paints with a pretty broad brush.? But sometimes they have to?to avoid litigation. It is one of the necessary evils of those who blend modern and "medieval" society. Aldyth -----Original Message----- In defense of the BoD, what happens the next time someone has almost the same situation----perhaps not quite as severe a medical emergency? Will the BoD have to review every combat to make sure all is as it should be? And, most importantly, was it so critical for this couple to be King and Queen that they were willing to circumvent this simple and basic SCA requirement, that of membership? From: "tatheg" Date: July 16, 2008 3:31:09 PM CDT To: trimaris-temp at yahoogroups.com Subject: [tri-temp] Gleened from the Meridian Tavern Yard Reply-To: trimaris-temp at yahoogroups.com Please read the missive from HRH Meridies tacked on to the end, I 
think she has the right of it.
Yours, 
Tatheg

--- In meridian-ty at yahoogroups.com, Lori BAKSIK wrote:
 >
 > So while I was attending my favorite event in the Outlands, a small 
local event called Lonely Mountain Defender, the most disturbing thing
 happened. A small group of mundanes were already camping at the site 
when we arrived so they were welcomed into the Royal Encampment (as 
well as others) as guests and treated with kindness and respect by 
all. In return the bastards stole the Crowns of the Outlands and 
"Lightning" (the sword of the Outlands) as well as personal items
 belonging to their Majesties and another person, who is a very old and
 dear friend of mine. As if that wasn't enough, he defecated in the
 queens bed and urinated in my friends tent. Fortunately as soon as
 these items were discovered missing everybody came together and
 tracked the items down and mundane authorities were contacted. While
 the perpetrators will be punished through the legal system, and all 
items were recovered, that is small comfort for those upon whom these
 crimes were visited and all the others who were affected. We will 
most likely all be changing the way we play this game of ours, at 
least for a while.
 > On the bright side, to see the efforts of the populace and the way
 everybody came together made me very proud to be a part of the SCA.
 > YIS, Ameris of Erlinstar

 ************************************************************* 

(From Her Highness Meridies)

Good People of Meridies, 

Having contacted my friend Mistress Leonora and others to confirm the
 truth of this story (as one should always do homework before reacting) 
I am saddened to say that this story is true. 

However, Mistress Leonora passed on to me the words of Countess
 Matilda of the Outlands:

 "It is unfortunate that disgusting details were shared, seems so 
tabloidish. I would rather hear about how Duke Hrothgar, Duchess
 Madigan and others acted quickly and diminished the damage that could
 have been done. The next day Her Majesty's Guard were especially
 attendant of Her Royal Person, picking wildflowers and trying to 
create more happy memories for her." 

I believe she is correct.

 Rather than treat this as a moment in which we allow anger and
 short-sighted frustration to guide us, let us instead remember the
 actions of good people, who devoted their time to doing everything
 humanly in their power to make things better, to raise the spirits of 
Queen Astridr, and to demonstrate that courtesy, chivalry and 
graciousness are still alive and well in the world - and that our
 Society holds such things dear.

 The mundane authorities will take care of the perpetrators, as they 
should. We, in the meantime, should celebrate the noble people within 
our organization who make it possible to rise above even the lowest 
and most callous of behaviors. 

Those people - Their Graces Hrothgar and Madison, and their like - are
 US - they are the heart of what we as a Society should strive to be,
 defending those in need, whether they are our Crowns or our smallest 
and weakest children.

 Please, instead of posting over and over how angry you are at
 petty, cowardly criminals, consider instead the ways that we can honor 
and emulate the very best qualities exhibited by those who came to aid
 Her Majesty Outlands. I am acquainted with both Her Majesty Astridr 
and these gentles who aided her, and I am proud to honor those who did
 well by her in such a trial. 

I ask you all to take their example, and instead of posting any 
frustrations about a far-away incident on a list serve, instead make a
 personal commitment to help someone in need, whether they have been
 through some great difficulty or whether they are new to the Society
 or for whatever reason.
 
If we are truly to remember the chansons and the deeds of honor 
recorded by the poets and historians, upon which we base this thing 
called the SCA, then I hope we will live in a spirit of chivalry and 
generosity, and raise our voices to praise the best, not quibble about 
the worst.

 Yours in Service, 
Gwen, Princess Meridies
 Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:04:41 -0600 From: "Kathleen A Roberts" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT- Peerage Oaths To: Cooks within the SCA Susan Lin wrote: <<< I know the East has MoA but I do not think the Outlands does (at least not "homemade" ones) >>> we do. just not many--probably count them on the fingers of one hand. we have had one or two start out that way, but then decide to take the path of knighthood. cailte Edited by Mark S. Harris Outl-hist-msg Page 9 of 9