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Meridies-hist-msg – 3/23/10


Histories of the Kingdom of Meridies.


NOTE: See also the files: SCA-hist1-msg, SCA-stories1-msg, Aten-hist-msg, placenames-msg, Hst-SCA-Fence-art, vanity-plates-msg, Trim-hist-msg.





This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.


This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org


I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.


The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.


Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).


Thank you,

   Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                         Stefan at florilegium.org



Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: mcnutt at gateway.ce.utk.edu Bill McNutt

Subject: Re: Qustion about court rules

Organization: University of Tennessee

Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 20:06:51 GMT


In article <1994Apr20.223219.5604 at blaze.trentu.ca>, jbeltzner at TrentU.CA (Jonathan Beltzner) says:

>>Side track - I'm a Baron in the Middle Kingdom. Some reign, after I have

>>explicitly sworn fealty to the Crown, in some other court, I'm tempted

>>to arrange to be called into court and appear with every knife, sword,

>>and whatnot I own or can borrow and see what the royal guards do. Surely

>>the king trusts his liegemen?


We had that happen at a Meridian royal court *ahem*-*cough* years ago.

The King in question grinned evilly and called for the Sword of State, which

he drew and placed across his knees for the duration of the audience.


....And much schtick was had by all.



Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: MCNUTT at gateway.ce.utk.edu (Bill McNutt)

Subject: Re: WHole States as Baronies How to Measure

Organization: University of Tennessee Division of Continuing Education

Date: Thu, 30 Jun 1994 19:15:01 GMT


In article <772903832.AA02159 at interphase.com.uucp> Bettina.Helms at f38.n112.z1.interphase.com (Bettina Helms) writes:

>The "ETC" is an East-Kingdom way of saying "and too many other awards to

>bother listing here". It's usually applied to anyone who has at least

>five sets of alphabet soup after his/her name. (I think, but am not

>sure, that it started in Carolingia and spread - like the dreaded Cloved

>Lemons, which strictly speaking started in the Canton of the Towers,

>which is *part of* the Barony of Carolingia....)


Meridies used to award the Order of the Ordered Orders. You quailfied if you

had (I think) more than 25 letters after your name.



From: Lee.Cavett at dobharchu.org (Lee Cavett)

To: ansteorra at eden.com

Organization: Lough na Dobharchu' BBS - League City, TX

Date: 01 Mar 96 13:25:26 -0600

Subject: Re:KbSca?


Lorraine writes:

>ted 96-02-29 03:10:39 EST, you write:

>>>KbSCA was an unofficial recognition created for

>>>Starhelm and only Starhelm.

>>>It is recognized by the Meridian knights and the

>>>Kingdom, but, has no

>>>"official" standing outside of the Kingdom.

>Then is he recognized as a knight in the rest of

>the Society or only in Meridies?  I'm a bit confused...



l> He is recognized a Knight but probably because some political fracus

l> was given this designation in Meridies. If you look in our OP you will

l> see he is listed as a Knight.


l> Lorraine


Political/Personal - Sir Starhelm cannot/will not swear personal fealty to a

King/Queen for personal reasons (which are *personal*, so don't ask me what

they are - if I knew I still wouldn't discuss it, but I don't know, so don't

ask me). The Meridians decided that he greatly deserved knighthood, but

aparrently have a long-standing tradition of not making Masters of Arms. The

Knight Bachelor was a compromise allowing a deserved award to be given without

either forcing Starhelm to deviate from his position on personal fealty *or*

forcing His then-Majesty of Meridies to deviate from Kingdom tradition/politics

- while saving face on both sides. It is, I may note, an elegant compromise

which is also period in application (with the usual disclaimer about times and

cultures).         An example that some others might do well to follow,

considering recent converstion on the Rialto. BTW, as mentioned in an earlier

post, Sir Starhelm *does* swear an oath of service and loyalty to the *Kingdom*

of Meridies.

Just my two bits ( two cents won't even buy Chiclets anymore..)


Donal O Dochartaigh



From: "David L. Backlin" <dbackli at comp.uark.edu>

Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 20:12:03 -0500 (CDT)

Subject: Re: SCA near Rice University? (fwd)


> >I know there are other groups scattered around the Kingdom that have a

> >definable starting point, and probably a charismatic leader, a household

> >affiliation, or a gaming group.

> >

> >What I would like to know, is what was it about these origins that these

> >people have in common?  Is it only a statisical percentage of the total

> >groups that stayed active at such a high level? Or was there something else?


Greetings unto the peoples of Ansteorra!


This missive was sent to me by another individual who asked me to explain

the origins of our home Shire.


The Shire-March of the Grimfells (Fayetteville, AR) was founded in the

Summer of 1978 by Lord Erich Hlodowechssun (now Herro Erich, I believe)

who brought the concept to this are from the Barony of Three Rivers.


I myself joined late in the Fall of that year. I can recall approximately

eight other individuals who belonged at the time. Of them, I am the sole

remaining member. Most have scattered to other corners of the Known World

and a couple have simply dropped out or "disappeared". One member, Squire

Adrian of Castle Lori (Squire to Sir John of Outman in Meridies), has

sadly passed from this realm.


Many have come and gone over the years... so many it is hard to remember

them all. One individual who joined approximately a year after I did has

gone on to make a name for himself in Calontir... that being Baron Master

Master Pavel Iosevich. Master Pavel, his wife Countess Fiona nic Allisdar,

and myself are the only ones who have remained with Grimfells over the



In the beginning, many of us were gamers and most of us played the

Cal-Tech mutation of D&D. Over the years however, many (including myself)

have quit gaming while others have continued and some have left the SCA to

devote more attention to gaming. There is some crossover between the

groups, but not as much as there once was.


As an aside to this, many people have asked over the years: "why is

Grimfells in Calontir and not Merieies?" The answer is complicated, yet

simple. When Grimfells was founded, there were no other groups in

Arkansas. The closest group in Meridies was Grey Niche (Memphis), but

there were several groups in the then Region of Calontir that were even

closer (Forgotten Sea, Standing Stones, Three Rivers, and a couple

others). We therefore requested that our Shire be declared part of the

Middle Kingdom. It was not an easy decision to make on anyone's part.

Later, when Calontir became a Kingdom in it's own right, Grimfells was



Since those "bygone days of yesteryear", Grimfells has spawned its own

progeny in the form of the Shire of Smythkepe (Ft. Smith, AR). This group

was formed by four wayward Grimfells folk: Master William Claibourne (aka

Thomas Axehand, aka Thomas the Procurer), one of the original members of

Grimfells; his lady wife, Mistress Arianna (sp?) of Perry; Lord Dylan

Smallwood of Somerset; and a fourth individual whose name escapes me

(occasionally referred to as the "invisible founder").


Smythkepe survives to this day, though its founders have also scattered to

far corners of the Known World. Smythkepe, too, has spawned progeny, but

that, good gentles, is a story for another day.


Your in service (and reminiscence),


Lord Edrei the Quiet

Shire-March of the Grimfells

Kingdom of Calontir


dbackli at comp.uark.edu



From: "Matthew R. Popalisky" <mpopali at comp.uark.edu>

Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 22:04:13 -0500 (CDT)

Subject: Re: SCA near Rice University?


On Thu, 8 Aug 1996, Vicki Marsh wrote:


> It would be an interesting SCA anthropological question to see who started

> with what core group and where.  


> I know there are other groups scattered around the Kingdom that have a

> definable starting point, and probably a charismatic leader, a household

> affiliation, or a gaming group.


> Zahra Zena


I apologise for answering for Lord Edrei the Quiet of Grimfells, but he's

not here...


Edrei der Nass joined at the beginnings of Grimfells back when we were a part of the Midrealm, but maybe that was Meridies, but no one was too sure then (something like 20 years ago), including the BoD.  He would change his name to Edrei the Quiet, and help found Smythkepe down in Meridies (as the 727 area code was declared to be part of the northern kingdom).  He still plays with both shires to this day, and has given great service towards the dream with his PR

abilities. People may not always notice him, but I am proud to call him friend and greatly admire what he has done and currently does to forward the Society.


Lady Kateryn Heathrydge.



From: CZimSabas at aol.com (9/11/96)

To: markh at risc.sps.mot.com

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 12:22:39 -0400

Subject: Re: Meridien Kings List


Milord Stefan,


Well met!

Here's that list of Meridian Kings.  


It came to me from the very gracious Cathal Mac Edan, of South Downs,

Meridies, a retired Precedence Herald who had never been consulted for such a

purpose. ;-)


Lord Cathal noted that all were knighted before becoming king with

the exception of Kane Redfeather.  Also, subsequent reigns must not

have been listed, as "Duke Kane" is only mentioned once.


I hope this is helpful!


John the Bearkiller

Orlando Cavalcanti

Francois du Vant

Beorn Loellen-ferth

Cedric fils de Guillaume

Roderick Level-lance of Rampart

Wolfgang Surgoth

Lawrence of Ashana

Aaron Breck Gordon

Kane Redfeather

Ciarri Mac Braonin

Richard of Raefen

Ryan von Gunther

Stephen Wolf

Micheal Bohun

Hadi the Aspiring

Brian Mac Brand

Boru Aelwyn

Gareth le Druin

Richard de Chinon

Bryce Mac Laren



Ellen the Bright



From: "Mitchell, Paul" <MITCHELL at dallas.genphysics.com>

To: 'ansteorra at eden.com'

Date: Fri, 20 Sep 96 15:12:00 EDT

Subject: RE: Principalities: "baby steps" Proposal (l


When I joined in Meridies in 1979, it had three regions:  the Regions of Aphar,

Lair of the Phoenix, and Trimaris. (Remember the verse in Cipriano's "Lord Charlie", also known as "The Man Who Never Returned":  "His first event was down in Trimaris/ Or perhaps it was Aphar".  This was written when both were regions.)  Later Aphar and Lair of the Phoenix were dissolved in favor of alphabetical administrative groupings: groups beginning with A-G, H-R, and S-Z, in order to eliminate artificial loyalties which were threatening to splinter the Kingdom.  Trimaris was left intact as they were hoping to seek principality status soon after.


- Galen of Bristol

MITCHELL at dallas.genphysics.com



Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:10:25 -0600

From: "Boogie" <boogie at softdisk.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Interkingdom Anthropology??


> From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

> Doesn't Meridies have an award/order known as the Grand Chef (or

> something along those lines)? This was vaguely described to me years

> ago, and one of the requirements, as I recall, was a wide spectrum of

> cooking styles and time periods. While not real specific, it suggests to

> me that a fairish amount of research would be called for, and therefore

> one could justify cookery, at least to some extent, as an art rather

> than a service. Or in addition to... .

> Adamantius, Cooking Laurel™ (void where prohibited, offer not good after

> curfew in sectors R or N)

> Østgardr, East


I believe the Grand Chef is only a title carrying no precedence or other

recognition with it other than the admiration of those of us who fear we

will never but up to its challenge.  It is an event feast that requires 26

different dishes from a certain number of cultures and periods served to

the High Table which is a panel of Grand Chefs who judge the feast; only 17

items are required to be served to the populace.  Yes, Ras, documentation

is required.  While the Grand Chef candidate does not have to personally

prepare each dish, they must oversee the preparation of each dish and how

it is presented.  I am fortunate enough to know several Grand Chefs and to

have served as kitchen slave at one such feast (yes, the candidate earned

her title as well as her nervous breakdown).



Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:05:31 PST

From: "Penny" <tipperith at excite.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Interkingdom Anthropology??


Boogie -- you're right about the Grand Chef info, except that there are only

21 dishes required. Seven different cultures are required, and a soulety or

illusion food is suggested, but not required.


The candidate must personally season each dish as well.



(who just completed a Grand Chef Feast, sans the nervous breakdown)



Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:48:39 -0500

From: mermayde at juno.com (Christine A Seelye-King)

Subject: SC - Meridies' Grand Chef


>Doesn't Meridies have an award/order known as the Grand Chef (or

>something along those lines)? This was vaguely described to me years

>ago, and one of the requirements, as I recall, was a wide spectrum of

>cooking styles and time periods. While not real specific, it suggests

>to me that a fairish amount of research would be called for, and

>therefore one could justify cookery, at least to some extent, as an art

>rather than a service. Or in addition to... .

>Adamantius, Cooking Laurel™ (void where prohibited, offer not good

>after curfew in sectors R or N)



Boogie -- you're right about the Grand Chef info, except that there are

only 21 dishes required. Seven different cultures are required, and a

soulety or illusion food is suggested, but not required.

The candidate must personally season each dish as well.


(who just completed a Grand Chef Feast, sans the nervous breakdown)


The Grand Chef feast was created many years ago by Sir Robert Hightower,

a wonderful cook and hell-of-a-nice guy.  Since then, many others have

decided to try their hand at accomplishing this feat, and certain rules

and guidlines have been set down for it.  It is not an official order or

award, folks just do it because they want to, and are judged by others

that have gone before them and been successful.  (Yes, there have been a

few that failed.)  By all accounts, Mistress Tippereth's recent feast was

most wonderful.

Mistress Christianna MacGrain



From: "Connie Carroll" <Connie.Bunny at worldnet.att.net>

To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>


Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 01:37:30 -0400


[From a discussion about Kings being knighted after winning Crown - Stefan]


Meridies has 2. Duke Kane was knighted sometime after his second reign while

Duke Ryan was knighted shortly after he won Crown Tourney for the second







Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 18:47:14 -0400

From: Christine A Seelye-King <mermayde at juno.com>

Subject: Re: SC - other names for cola


> Actually, the reason that we specifically label Coca-Cola as 'South

> Downs Ale' is because Coca-Cola headquarters are here in Atlanta, so

> 'South Downs Ale' actually originates here in South Downs.   ;-)


> I remain, in service to Meridies,

> Lady Celia des L'archier


      And all of that started with a group of folks in Caid who were giving

Coca-Cola as a prize for their tourney.  They wanted to know what the

name of the group in Atlanta was, as it was the home-town of Coke, and

coined the phrase for their event.  We did not find out about it until

some time later, but we liked it a lot when we did hear about it.  We

have since had tourneys by the same name.


      Mistress Christianna

      Barony of the South Downs



Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 09:11:36 -0700 (PDT)

From: Pat <mordonna22 at yahoo.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Creative Supplimentation

To: SCA Cooks <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


I started in the SCA in Atenveldt (Greater Phoenix, AZ).  There are  

three baronies, a College, and a Shire all within an hours drive, but  

the rest of the Kingdom is spread out over a huge area.  (There are  

nearly 5 million people in Arizona, but 3 million of them live in the GPA).

Weekend camping events are the norm.  A few of the larger summer time  

events are held in Halls, with no camping (ever try sleeping in a tent  

when the midnight temperature is over 100 degrees F.?)  The camping  

events seemed to be about 50/50 with feasts, and the Hall events all  

had feasts.  Sometimes the camping feasts were included with the site  

fee, the Hall events very seldom included feast with the site fee.

Because Atenveldt is a predominantly urban population, supplementing  

with wild game or home grown vegetables was seldom done, although  

locally grown lamb has been used.


I moved to Meridies two years ago.  My biggest culture shock was  

finding that weekend events here almost always include cabins, and  

people are reluctant to attend camping events in more primitive  

settings where cabins are not available.  How can cement block cabins  

and swimming pools onsite add to the Medieval atmosphere?  Also, the  

population is much more spread out, and one does not get the  

opportunity to fraternize with royalty that one experiences in  



Pat Griffin

Lady Anne du Bosc

known as Mordonna the Cook

Shire of Thorngill, Meridies

Mundanely, Millbrook, AL



Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 18:05:03 -0400

From: <kingstaste at mindspring.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] IKA - Royalty Changeover, was: head table


To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>



Another interesting inter-kingdom difference is the way Royalty change.

Some years ago, I was horrified when the Mists Royalty changed in a hostle

takeover! I was told that in other Kingdoms this was normal!?!  Well, I

have since experienced a stabbed and dying Prince give the Principality to

his heir and a Prince who decide to become a monk.  Personally, I much

prefer the joyful and regal transfer of Crowns and Coronets to the heirs.

Many HAPPY tears.   And why, I ask, did all the examples above happen

in the Principality of the Mists?


Viscountess Katira

proud defender of the West and Western traditions



That may have started with us, actually.  Meridies has practiced various

forms of Regicide since the beginning, although it isn't always bloody.

Sometimes they go off on Crusade (and then sometimes their lady will go into

a Convent), we've had them grow old through the last Court and then pass

away, we've had them step down because the Stone of Scone no longer screamed

for them.  One time they were taken off by fairies, but we try not to talk

about that one much.


I've seen the reactions on the faces of visitors from other Kingdoms. It is

usually a combination of horror and fascination, followed by "How

awful...tell me more!".


We like our little theatrics, what can I say?





Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 12:57:04 -0700

From: "Lady Celia" <CeliadesArchier at cox.net>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Offboard/Onboard/court bored? (was RE: Vegetarian

      &     Vegans was Re: lethal drinks)

To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>


Gosh... I remember the old days when the feast was part of the event fee.

At least that's what was customary in Meridies when I lived there.  Of

course, in the Southeast, we have good access to lots of inexpensive group

camping sites, so weekend events are the norm (or were - has that changed?)

from May through November.  


So I'm just curious if things are ever still done that way (and where folks

are at when they're answering)... are there still places which just simply

have a Fri-Sun (or even Fri-Mon on holiday weekends) event where the feast

is just included in the event cost?


Celia (whose been out of things for a long while)


To: gleannabhann at yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: possible site

Posted by: "Gilbert Head" eghead at uga.edu eghead2002

Date: Wed Dec 9, 2009 7:03 am ((PST))


For those of you into ancient history, it was also the place where John the Bearkiller won the first Crown List for what would become the Kingdom of Meridies.....




----- Original Message -----

From: Barbara Easley

<<< Wall Doxey is a beautiful park set just below Holly Springs, MS., just off US HI 78, down State highway 6 (towards Oxford). They have an enormous lake, pool, tons of camping, open spaces, and RV pads. We haven't used this site for years in the Niche, but it is a great place; we've camped there mundanely some. They have pavillions and shower houses, and it is in good shape. They have a commercial kitchen/feasthall, but last I heard it wasn't open to let any except Park Staff in to cook... and that was a Loooong time ago. Might have changed.


One could have a large event here with no trouble, as long as there wasn't a need for a kitchen to cook the feast in. (Who needs a kitchen, anyway? We *are* medieval, no?)


Beautiful, lots and lots of shade, quiet and easy to get to. Close to Wal-Mart, hotels, medical, shopping, sight-seeing, and fast food nirvana (A GREAT Chinese buffet, Sonic, Mickey Dees, Wendy's and Popeyes, to name a few.) It's about 50 miles form Memphis.


BTW, the fishing is AWESOME!! You can rent fishing gear, canoes, boats, etc.


Ilissa >>>


<the end>

Formatting copyright © Mark S. Harris (THLord Stefan li Rous).
All other copyrights are property of the original article and message authors.

Comments to the Editor: stefan at florilegium.org