Home Page

Stefan's Florilegium


This document is also available in: text or RTF formats.

Drach-hist-msg - 9/7/09


Histories of the Kingdom of Drachenwald.


NOTE: See also these files: SCA-stories1-msg, SCA-hist1-msg, placenames-msg, East-hist-msg, border-stories-msg, you-know-msg, SCA-notables-msg.





This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.


This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org


I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.


The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.


Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).


Thank you,

    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                          Stefan at florilegium.org



From: mabr at sweden.hp.com (Morgan "the Dreamer" Broman)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: SCAdians authors (and authors who include SCA in their works)

Date: 31 Aug 1994 11:12:12 GMT

Organization: HP/SCA/SKA/FSTS/AMTS/SLRP/ETC Sweden


Dorothy J Heydt (djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu) wrote:

: rosalyn rice <rorice at bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote:

: > .... also if you want to add

: >authors of fantasy role-playing games to the list you can include the

: >creators of Runequest ....

: Oh, my goodness, yes.  Count Stefan de Lorraine and Duke Stephen

: MacEanruig, two-thirds of the Runequest team, started writing

: Runequest after a few years in the SCA showed them how inaccurate

: the sword- and other fighting in D&D was.


        That was how SCA came to Sweden, a couple of guys role-playing

found the adress in the cover of the game. (I think it was RQ..;) )

They wrote to Milpitas....no answer...they wrote again, got an answer and

found out about Drachenwald (Americans based in Europe). Now Sweden makes

up over a third of the Kingdom....


What goes around comes around..;)


....x-prince, x-king, x-cited..;) !



HP   : Morgan Broman                             mabr at sweden.hp.com




From: kroussea at mail.cc.trincoll.EDU (kroussea)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: SCA Authors <long>

Date: 14 Dec 1994 20:27:46 -0500

Organization: The Internet


It seems to me that i've posted this three or four times already but here



A glaring omission from this list is Katherine Kurtz!


I quote from the About the Author page of my tenth printing paperback

copy of _High Deryini_ (March 1983) inside back page, last paragraph:


        "Miss Kurtz is active in the Society for Creative Anachronism, an

organization which attempts to recreate the middle ages and rennaissance

through tournamentsm banquets, revels, and classes in medieval arts and

sciences.  As Bevin Fraser of Stirling in the SCA, she is an accomplished

costumer, calligrapher and illuminator, herald, and expert on court

protocol, as well as a student of medieval fighting forms (from the

sidelines only; she bruises easily)."  


In addition to this, she and her husband, Scott McMillan were two of the

six necessary paid members for Lough Devnaree, Drachenwald (Ireland)'s

original application for incipiency. Seamus, could you please verify this?


The last peice of information I have is that someone once told me that

Katherine is a former Steward.  I'm sure there are records (and

oldtimers) who could verify this.


Sorry for opening this thread again, but the AtA in the Camber books was

the first place I heard about the Society.



Casey ap Cennedd                                              Casey Rousseau

Bowman's Rest, Beyond the Mountain, East       Trinity College, Hartford, CT

                        <kroussea at mail.trincoll.edu>



From: Jo_Grant.LOTUSINT.LOTUS at crd.lotus.COM

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: SCA Authors <Katherine Kurtz>

Date: 16 Dec 1994 04:37:31 -0500

Organization: The Internet


The following was forwarded on to my by Casey ap Cennedd:

>In addition to this, she and her husband, Scott McMillan were

>two of the  six necessary paid members for Lough Devnaree,

>Drachenwald (Ireland)'s original application for incipiency.

>Seamus, could you please verify this?

        Countess Bevin and Scott have been an inspiration and

help to us in Lough Devnaree (Ireland) from the very start

back in 1986. They have not had time to be particularly active

but they have been generous enough to let us use their house

(mansion?) occasionally for events. (If you look at the

sequel to Gone With the Wind they use her house as the set

for the new Tara :-).

        Countess Bevin is the "oldest" peer in Drachenwald...



                        Seamus Donn

                        Jo Grant



Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 22:43:20 -0500

From: Paul Mitchell <pmitchel at flash.net>

To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG

Subject: Re: ANST - group names


Galen here!


RAISYA at aol.com wrote:

> If you're collecting group names for the Knowne World generally:


> Perilous Journey - Berlin, Germany named in the days that getting in and out

> of the city WAS a perilous journey.  It was a shire, I'm not sure what it is

> these days.

Actually, Perilous Journey went defunct a few years after I left there.


The name came actually from one of Duke Merowald's maps of the Known World,

which showed a shire in the far east of Drachenwald called "Perilous Journey".

I thought it had to be Berlin, but when I got there, there was no shire in

Berlin, and Drachenwald had never had a Shire of Perilous Journey.  So I

founded the shire in Berlin, using the name from the map; it was the

only SCA branch behind the Iron Curtain.


- Galen of Bristol



Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:49:01 MST

From: Paul Mitchell <pmitchel at flash.net>

Subject: Re: ANST - Patents

To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG


CraigCC at aol.com wrote:

> timden at lcc.net writes:

> << So my questions are:

>   What is the difference in having a Royal Patent or not?

>   Why are we one of the very few (only?) Kingdoms that dont give them out?

>   Would it be in the Kingdom's best interest to give out Royal Patents to

>  those stepping down?


>  Sir Timo Kalamanos >>


> I am very interested in discussion on this topic.


> HRH Alaric


Well, my lord Prince, I offer the following as my first service

to you:


As we all know, the Royal Peerages are the ranks of Duke,

Count, and Viscount, and their feminine equivalents.


Shortly before I became Prince of Drachenwald (my Investiture was

in January of 1984), the Board of Directors observed that the

kingdoms and principalities, by long tradition, were granting

patents of arms with the Royal Peerages, or to their Ladies of

the Rose in some kingdoms.  The Board issued a ruling, still

in effect so far as I know, that patents of arms could not be

granted with royal peerage titles unless the incoming ruler

polled their patent-holding predecessors on whether the

current/outgoing rulers met the requirements in _Corpora_

for patents of arms.


For this reason, Kaylitha and I polled the four resident

holders of Viscounty rank in Drachenwald on the question

of whether Prince Alexander and Princess Katya should be

given patents of arms.  Alexander and Katya had not

ruled the satisfaction of these four, and we were told

unanimously they should not be granted patents of arms.

And so their viscounty rank did not and today does not

include patents of arms.  In my opinion, following this

counsel was the worst mistake I made as Prince of Drachenwald,

perpetrating a terrible and lasting public injustice against

two friends who certainly deserved better.  Viscount Alexander

and Viscountess Katya today are well-liked and participating

members of our home Barony of Elfsea, as Your Highness knows.


Six months down the road, and my successor (who was also

one of my predecessors) consulted the other three and

they agreed that I, too, had not ruled to their satisfaction,

and so Kaylitha and I also did not receive patents of arms

with our Viscounty rank.  Viscountess Kaylitha today lives

in Bryn Gwlad and is only peripherally involved with the

SCA.  I received a patent of arms with my knighthood.


Granting patents of arms with royal peerage rank serves

no positive purpose.  It is solely a method to punish the

outgoing rulers.


I beg you to maintain the Ansteorran practice as it is.


- Galen of Bristol



From: "Wanda Pease" <wandap at hevanet.com>

To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Authenticity Police: since we're castigating

extremists  anyway.. .

Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 17:27:28 -0700


Elaine Koogler said:

> The only other society-wide sumptuary restrictions are for hats...6 pearls for

> barons, 15 (I think) for viscounts, crenelated for counts and strawberry

> leaves for dukes.  


Err.  Kiri,  I believe we get our ideas for hats from Fox Davies.  At any

rate when I read it the "rule" was 6 pearls for a Baron and 8+ for a

Viscount/ess. For a while it was the fashion in Drachenwald to put the number

of pearls that equaled what number Prince or Princess you had been. Therefore the 9th Viscount/ess used 9 Pearls.


Viscountess Regina Romsey

(5th Princess, but with 8 pearls)



Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 14:52:52 +0930

From: "Anwyn Davies" <anwyn at internode.on.net>

Subject: [Lochac] How do Other Kingdoms Do It - Drachenwald

To: "'The Shambles, the SCA Lochac mailing list'" <lochac at sca.org.au>


Talking about Drachenwald as a whole, is problematic, because culturally it

is very diverse indeed, although all of the Kingdom has one thing in common

- how you do it where you come from is NOT how we do it here, and we don't

particularly like hearing you go on about it. Here is here, and what happens

now is how we do it.


That stemmed originally from the large number of Americans, usually

servicemen and their families, coming to Drachenwald for a year or two and

going on and on about 'in our Kingdom, we do...' Drachenwalders understand

that the rest of the world has its own style, but the general feel is that

while in Drachenwald, THIS is your kingdom, and you need to learn what

happens here. It continues not just because of socially inept visitors, but

because of Drachenwald's unique issues; within the various regions of

Drachenwald, the same applies.


First, you have to remember just how BIG the Kingdom is: it covers Iceland,

the United Kingdom, the Republic of Ireland, the Netherlands, Belgium,

France, Spain, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Germany, Austria, Italy, Greece,

Israel, South Africa and has people and proto-groups in Afghanistan, Kuwait,

Iraq, Romania, Switzerland, and the United Arab Emirates. Now, add to

distance the mundane issues: the EU covers a lot of those places, but you

have to factor that each place will have its own laws, languages (over 20),

'normal' customs with regard to dress and appropriate behaviour and possibly

currency. Plus some of those places have a recent/current history of

violence and unrest, which causes its own unique issues (funnily enough,

carrying armour isn't generally one of them.)


Language IS a huge issue. English is the language of default, and will get

you by in most places, but don't visit Nordmark (Scandinavian Principality)

and expect to have an evening surrounded by English conversation in a funny

accent. Sure as hell don't expect the Herald or the Principality court to

operate in it. They do sometimes, depending on the situation, but the

fastest way to annoy them is to *expect* English to be spoken. Kingdom

events are generally recognised to have English as the lingua franca (boom

boom) but don't *expect* English anywhere. Even Insula Draconis, which is

the Crown Principality in the British Isles isn't a guarantee; the Welsh,

Scottish and Irish will all speak English even if they can also speak their

own native languages, but Iceland is also part of ID and at an event there,

once more, you have no guarantees...


Next, factor in the occasional appearance of 'real life' Royalty and

aristocracy. The was a heraldic crisis when Crown Princess Victoria of

Sweden attended an SCA event in Nordmark with regards to how she would be

addressed. With quick consultations, the King and Queen of Drachenwald and

the Prince and Princess of Nordmark were pleased to be introduced to the

'visiting' Princess Victoria of Sweden (who was gracious enough to be

introduced as an 'equal' to the fake royalty of a fake kingdom in her own

country.) Tricky stuff. Again, this is where 'foreigners' laying down the

law on 'how we do it in MY kingdom' is not appreciated - various

semi-apocryphal and some quite true and barely embroidered tales abound of

snotty American Heralds/someone-with-heraldic-knowledge raking down some

'newby' for daring to appropriate some real person's title or arms, only to

be told through gritted teeth by a rather annoyed Drachenwalder that this

*is* the real person with every right to be called by their real title and

use their real arms.


Real History is something of an issue too. Go back and look at the list of

countries that are in Drachenwald. Now think about their shared history.

Jokes about 'didn't the French take a beating at Agincourt' might go down

well in London, not so well Bruges and even less in Paris. Generally people

don't let the past interfere with the present, so to speak, but you do have

to remember that the six foot tall Spanish persona you are talking to may In

Real Life be a Dublin rugby player who doesn't appreciate Irish jokes, or

the big bearded be-tartaned Scot who is looking at you blankly when you

start talking about Rabbie Burns is probably a native of downtown



Again, if you embrace the Drachenwald mind-set of 'how we do it right here

and now is how it's done' you will be fine. If you come barreling in as

though you know better than anyone else, you run into trouble. I got to see

that one in action myself - a visiting American Laurel was talking to a new

member at her second or third event, and commenting on her rather lovely

linen dress, her first attempt at making her own garb. Now, the Laurel was

being very nice, with emphasis on the constructive and helpful end of

criticism, and said something like 'but if you want a more authentic cut,

you need to place your pattern on the grain differently...' which was met

with a blank 'huh?' from the newby and muffled giggles from her friends. The

Laurel started to explain what she knew, and was quite innocently put in her

place when the newby said 'but that's how the dress in the museum was cut.'

She'd gone down to her local museum, talked to the curator who had taken an

original dress (found in a bog, if I recall correctly) out of its case, laid

it out under controlled conditions for her, she had laid her linen down next

to it and matched it panel for panel. Duke Elfinn's laughing comment to the

red faced Laurel was 'we have *real* documentation here.'


To paraphrase Eddie Izzard, this is where the history comes from. Someone at

their very first event, wearing the equivalent of a tea-towel tunic, may

very well know more that the best Laurel on a given subject. You can talk

about Tudor architecture all you like, it won't impress someone who lives in

a Tudor house (and has to put up with the very awkward plumbing). Assume

nothing about anyone!


Ok, having said all that, I'll try to follow Katherine's line of 'nuts and

bolts', but I'll have to stress that this is based on my experience of

living in what is now Insula Draconis several years ago:


Size of event - anywhere from 15 to 300. Often in a period location. Because

people will travel from their own group to anywhere in ID, usually runs with

expectation that people will stay the night, and often makes accommodation

for those who wish to sleep in the feasting hall or a nearby hall on the

Saturday night (those with more money/older backs tend to head to local B&Bs

but still come back for breakfast on Sunday.)


Combat archery - enough ex-pat Locharchers and American knights make this a

contentious issue. Use US style huge blunts. When I was living there, a

fight would blow up about every 8 months on whether combat archery should

continue or not. The resolution was that combat archery would stay as it

was, and the bigger US style blunts remain, not for the sake of the archers

but for the safety of the historic sites wars tend to be in (stupid, true,

but the site caretakers tend to be happier with it.)


Fencing - very popular, more so that heavy in some places, but when I was

there, that was possibly because of training difficulties if you weren't in

an area where there were other heavies (there are quite a few different

non-SCA groups that do historic fencing). Make rude comments about fencers

at your peril - remember the large Irish Spaniard and the Danish lad in

tartan I mentioned before? If they don't fence, a good drinking buddy



Internal interaction... see above. Convoluted, complicated, issue laden, and

all done with a spirit of 'it'll all work'. There is a reason why

Drachenwalders laugh at us for grumbling about our problems with '1 kingdom,

2 countries.' They laugh at the Americans even harder. Generally dealt with

the minimum fuss and an assumption that any perceived cock up was

unintentional. Lots of travelling; most groups are small and reasonably

isolated. New groups tend to get a lot of support. Because so many people

travel to other groups to play, in lots of places a group will only run one

or two events per year. ID certainly had (and I think still has) the

situation where the local group will be nominally running the event, but

lots of people from other groups will be involved.


Yelled in Court - vivat. Custom taken directly from the East Kingdom (parent

kingdom) I believe.


Types of group that are favoured - shires, definitely shires. There are

maybe half a dozen Baronies in the whole kingdom? Not many (any? Not sure

these days; the only one I knew of was folding when I left) colleges.


Calendar - it's a thing with days on it. No matter what time of the year,

Drachenwald is big enough that somewhere it'll be nice  to do what you want.

There was (again, don't know if it's still true) a culture of trying to

rotate the four Kingdom crown events through the three 'big' areas -

Nordmark, Insula Draconis and 'Central Europe' (mostly heavily populated in

west Germany.)


Dance culture - no idea. They did it. Call for any dance and expect half a

dozen different variations depending on where the various dancers learnt it.


Food culture - serve non-period food at your peril. Serve *bad* food at your

peril. Simple is acceptable, poorly researched or badly cooked is not.

Because (in ID at least) people were at the feast hall for the night, the

concept of 'if I don't like it, I can nip out and get a burger or something

after) doesn't exist. If you didn't get stuffed fuller than a full thing at

the feast, there was a problem and the cooks will be mortified.


Use of candles - absolutely! Because events are often in historical sites,

there are *sometimes* very strict regulations about naked flames, but the

SCA has a VERY good reputation with bodies like CADW, the National Trust,

etc, and so allowances are usually made. I think I went to one electric lit

event in my entire time in Drachenwald, and that was in a modern hall.


Acceptability of alcohol - it's Europe, the concept of a dry site is

bewilderingly foreign to most people. However, in the new Middle Eastern

proto-groups, that's not a given, of course.


Frequency of Royal visits - not too bad. But then again, I lived in ID,

where a lot of those who had the skills to win crown live. Given the spread

of the kingdom, I suspect many places see royalty all too infrequently.


Award culture - has almost no GOA level awards. AoA level specific awards

are bloody hard to get (not an AoA itself though, I should clarify); there

is a debate going on at the moment as to whether the kingdom should

introduce GOA awards, or shufty its current awards up to GOA level and

create some new AoA level awards that are more likely to be given at that


The PCP, or Principle Company of Sojourners, is given to every inhabitant of

Drachenwald who leaves the kingdom; a recognition of how many people of the

kingdom are there temporarily. It's that cultural thing again; no matter

where you come from, while you are in Drachenwald you ARE a Drachenwalder,

and when you leave, you will always have ties to the kingdom and be welcomed

home with open arms.


Peerages - not a damn clue. Wasn't one, didn't play with them much while I

was there. All the laurels I met were Laurels when they got there. Wolfram,

Genna, any comments?


Approach to Royalty - very laid back indeed.


Equality of Kings and Queens - absolutely! Some *very* strong Queens in

Drachenwald's history (and some very, very laid back Kings - Hi Elfinn!!)


A&S competitions - er...ask Nina. Sorry. As I vaguely remember, variable and

not very topic specific.


Language - tricky. Again, so much of the population started in the SCA

elsewhere that it's tricky to nail it down. I heard eric, list, listfield,

tourney field, ground, field and display all used. Autocrat often, but

Steward pushing its way in. A Cook is a Cook is a Cook; 'feastocrat' marked

you out as 'foreign' in an instant. Through in any other language variant of

the above and you start to get an idea.


Golf carts - would get you laughed at. A pony trap or a goat cart would be

looked at with speculation and much planning, however :D


Types of event - ID was mainly fight during the day (tourney or war) and

feast at night. Drachenwald has some truly historic wars with some truly

stupid causes (whether one should butter a Ryvita-style biscuit on the flat

side or the holey side; which of two baronies grows the better horseradish;

are home-made or shop-bought 'cookies' better?) The numbers are smaller - 20

to 100 fighters, but you've never been to war until you got to watch it from

the walls of a 12th century castle. Nyah! ;)

Because of the distances people travel, nearly always cover the weekend. Day

events are rare.


Density of groups and effects on event - as covered before - population

spread out, lots of travelling, lots of staying overnight (and lots of

locals throwing their doors open to stragglers before and after, too.)

Everyone does everything and gets involved in everything on one level or



One other thing I'll add to Katherine's list, and that is bought-or-made:

'Medieval Fairs' are commonplace all over Drachenwald, and are NOT like the

US RenFaires; there is usually some serious re-enactment, often of a battle,

attached, and a lot of merchants selling some high-quality stuff at not too

expensive prices. In addition, many 'native born' Drachenwalders also play

in 'real' re-enactment groups, with very high standards, and come to the SCA

as a bit of a relief, with an option to play in more than one time and

place. So you will see some VERY high standards of garb and kit, that may or

may not have been made by the wearer or bought straight off the rack. It

also means that Laurel-standards are VERY high - you have huge amounts of

primary documentation within easy reach, and LOTS of people making stuff to

SCA Laurel standards as 'basic kit' in non-SCA games.


I can only stress, that was my experience of Drachenwald. There are others

on the list who are perhaps better qualified to speak, having been Peers

while they were there, or a certain northern Baron who is a native

Drachenwalder originally.


Blodeuwedd y Gath, PCP.


<the end>

Formatting copyright © Mark S. Harris (THLord Stefan li Rous).
All other copyrights are property of the original article and message authors.

Comments to the Editor: stefan at florilegium.org