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Caid-hist-msg – 2/20/12


Histories of the Kingdom of Caid.


NOTE: See also the files: SCA-hist1-msg, border-stories-msg, child-stories-msg, Lochac-hist-msg, placenames-msg, SCA-stories1-msg, romance-today-msg, West-hist-msg.





This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.


This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org


I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.


The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.


Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).


Thank you,

   Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                         Stefan at florilegium.org



From: kellogg at ucssun1.sdsu.edu (C. Kevin Kellogg)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: History of SCA fighting

Date: 18 Nov 1994 02:10:04 GMT

Organization: San Diego State University Computing Services


Shop Smart...Shop S-Mart! (00pfpogue at bsuvc.bsu.edu) wrote:

:      Unto the residents of the Rialto Joshua Morgenstern bids greetings and



:     I'd like to hear, through posts or email, what opinions all of you on the

:bridge have on this subject, whether the persons named be Society-wide

:phenomenons or Kingdom legends.  All I ask is that you generall believe that

:this person had something of an influence on the way your entire kingdom or the

:Society itself fought.  I'm hoping to gain at least a general idea of how our

:unique martial art came to evolve over the years.


        Well, for Caid, I believe most of the legends of the West can be

counted as influences here.  Probably the most mentioned old

Western fighters are Duke Paul and Duke Ragnar.  For individual stylings

from Caidans, Duke Martin the Temperate, Hugh the Undecided, Duke Gregory

of York.  From not too long ago, Duke Edward Ian Anderson.  Most recently,

Grandjarl Ivan the Illustrated, Duke Guy, Sir Freewind Finboggison, Duke

Avery of Kempsford.


        For group combat, I believe that Hugh the Undecided started Caid

on the road of coordinated group combat, mixed units of poles and shields,

with the Brotherhood of the Blade.  Duke Armand de Sevigny, Duke Gregory of

York, Sir Tryggvi Halftrollson, Count Balin of Tor, Sir Kamal Mishwa,

have been the most instrumental in Caid's recent evolution of a national

army, brigading together existing warbands by geographic area, and setting

up the structure of the general's staff and the system of the Captain

General chosen by the army, not the king.


               Avenel Kellough


:      Joshua ben-Julian ben-Praz Morgenstern, called Azrael

:      Historian, Shire of Afonlyn

:      Middle Kingdom



From: tech_con at bga.com (Fox Purtill)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: History of SCA fighting

Date: 20 Nov 1994 10:56:18 GMT

Organization: Castle Keep BBS


In article <3ah2ds$6ss at gondor.sdsu.edu>, kellogg at ucssun1.sdsu.edu (C. Kevin Kellogg) says:


>        Well, for Caid, I believe most of the legends of the West can be

>counted as influences here.  Probably the most mentioned old

>Western fighters are Duke Paul and Duke Ragnar.  For individual stylings

>from Caidans, Duke Martin the Temperate, Hugh the Undecided, Duke Gregory

>of York.  From not too long ago, Duke Edward Ian Anderson.  Most recently,

>Grandjarl Ivan the Illustrated, Duke Guy, Sir Freewind Finboggison, Duke

>Avery of Kempsford.

>        For group combat, I believe that Hugh the Undecided started Caid

>on the road of coordinated group combat, mixed units of poles and shields,

>with the Brotherhood of the Blade.  Duke Armand de Sevigny, Duke Gregory of

>York, Sir Tryggvi Halftrollson, Count Balin of Tor, Sir Kamal Mishwa,

>have been the most instrumental in Caid's recent evolution of a national

>army, brigading together existing warbands by geographic area, and setting

>up the structure of the general's staff and the system of the Captain

>General chosen by the army, not the king.

>                Avenel Kellough

>:      Joshua ben-Julian ben-Praz Morgenstern, called Azrael

>:      Historian, Shire of Afonlyn

>:      Middle Kingdom

I started in Caid in 1975, and I was trained by a fighter now deceased known

as Sir Fergie McFerguson.  I remember watching fights between Duke Paul Bellatrix and a number of others, I even remember that a number of the moves I was trained to use had his name attached to them.

However, One name you mentioned brought back some of the warmest memories I have ever had.  One Duke Armand de Sevigny and his Duchess Diana.  I was quite young when I participated in SCA events in Caid, under the name Lord Fox of the Mellow Marsh, and I remember well the kindness and feeling Armand and Diana always extended to those around them.  They always had time for a troublesome teen like myself and often a kind word.  Among those hundreds I have known in the SCA through the years I shall always remember those two with fondness in my heart for I hope that I shall someday be remembered as well by another as I remember them.


        In Service,

        Lord Crispin L. Starblade, (once Lord Fox of the Mellow Marsh)

        Barony of Bryn Gwlad, Ansteorra



From: pat at lalaw.lib.CA.US (Pat Lammerts)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: single fighters

Date: 9 Nov 1995 23:37:50 -0500

Organization: The Internet


Dear Dorothea,


Your are somewhat mistaken about Lorissa du Griffin.

She became Princess of Caid because Balin of Tor

wanted to fight for someone no one would link him to

romantically. He had knew her to be a mature young

lady who would make an excellent princess.  This is

what Bjo told me at the time and have heard the same

from others in Balin's household.





From: brettwi at ix.netcom.com(Brett Williams )

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Cloved Fruit

Date: 13 Dec 1995 18:06:13 GMT

Organization: Netcom


In <DJJA2y.LAt at murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> gl8f at fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU

(Greg Lindahl) writes:

>In article <1995Dec8.144138.17446 at atlas.tntech.edu>,

>Mary Spila <mms6824 at tntech.edu> wrote:

>>Could/would someone PLEASE give me a brief history of how the game of

>>passing cloved fruit was introduced to the SCA.  I am doing a brief

>>class on the game, (emphasizing "Don't be a jerk") and would like

>>some more information than what I already know.

>I've never heard anyone claim that they knew the origin of this game,

>other than vague rumblings that it originated 15+ years ago in

>Carolingia. It does seem to have died out in Atlantia. There was one

>attempt to revive it last weekend, but I don't think it was very well

>received. And my lady threw out this lovely pomander that the queen

>herself gave me, the nerve!

>Gregory Blount


I know exactly when and how it was introduced to Caid-- I was there.

At the Pentecost feast held by Duke Aonghais and Lady Mary Taran of

Glastonbury (their wedding), a tall man by the name of Alexander sur le

Mer (from the Kingdom of the East) called for silence and explained the

custom. I later recognized Lord Alexander as the only Life Member later

listed in Tournaments Illuminated for a number of years. There were

some 200 SCA folk present (and some 20 to 50 more mundane wedding

guests as well).  Two cloved lemons circulated with some decorum and

blushing for the rest of the evening.


As Armand and Diana were present at that event as the Crown Prince and

Princess of the Kingdom-to-be of Caid, that was a very long time ago.





Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:34:47 EST

From: THLRenata at aol.com

Subject: SC - Pea soup humor - a true (but long) SCA story


All this thread of pea soup is making me a bit queasy, and not just 'cause

I'm home with stomach flu today!  Here's why:


Long, long ago in the Kingdom of Caid the King decided that he absolutely MUST

attend 12th Night in the Kingdom of the West.  Since Caid's 12th Night was

scheduled for the same day, this King took it upon himself to change the date

of Caidan 12th to the week AFTER the West's (where it has remainded to this

day.) Remember, this was in the days when we didn't need to reserve halls a

year in advance and newsletter deadlines were 2 days before the issue went in

the mail.  The King felt that 1 month's notice was plenty -- and it was and

Caid had a fine 12th Night that year.


Unfortunately, some of the King's subjects from Western Seas (Hawaii) had

planned to attend Caid 12th Night and had non-changable plane tickets.  So the

Barony of Altavia (where the guests were staying) deceide to throw them an

"11th Night" feast.


All of this was done on very short notice, so it was decided that the feast

should be assigned pot-luck, with every 4 people bring the same dish.  This

way, if was felt, there would be enough of each dish for all.  I should

mention that this was my second SCA event, the first one being a council



The feast took place at the home of a duke and duchess.  Her Grace was in

charge of assigning the recipes.  All of the recipes were from the book

"Fabulous Feasts" (remember, this was a long time ago when we didn't know

better) and NONE of the recipes had been taste tested.


Needless to say, the dishes ranged in quality from OK to mediorce (sp?) to

downright awful, depending on the recipe and the skill of the cook.  Looking

back on it now, probably most of the food would have been OK if it had been

served hot, but no arrangements for re-heating had been provided.


Where, I can hear you ask, is the pea soup in this story? Well, His Grace the

Duke had decided to grace the feast with his specialty, split-pea soup. Since

the feast was at his house, it was easy for him to make a large vat of it.

But, on the day of the feast he ran into a problem -- his usual thickener was

not available.  Rumaging thru his wife's spice cabinet, he decided (legend

has it) to use arrowroot as a substitute thickener.


The soup started to expand.  His Grace started to bail the expanding soup

into another pot.  At the end, where there was once one vat of soup, now

there was two.  And to top it off, it burned as well.


Bowls of this nasty liquid (with black bits floating in it) were served to the

feasters. And His Grace Stood up from his place at the high table as asked:

"Everyone's enjoying the soup -- RIGHT?"


Now adays the barony laughs at this story, as do the visitors from Hawaii,

some of whom live here now.  But to this day, I have never been able to

tolerate even the smell of split-pea soup.



Barony of Altavia

Kingdom of Caid

Los Angeles, CA



Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 13:01:46 -0700 (PDT)

From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Cooking Laurels


- --- Elaine Koogler <ekoogler at chesapeake.net> wrote:

> Yeah, I know...and you know....but he apparently didn't reckon with the fact

> that someone other than one of his "buds" would win

> Crown.  As it happened, (if

> memory serves), that Crown was won by one Stephan of

> Bellatrix...as opposite an

> individual from this King as possibly could be.  So

> now we're back on track...I think.


> Kiri


So you had one of the Ducklings as your king.  Right



Back when Caid was a Principality of the West, during

one of the many reigns of his parents, Paul and Carol,

they had come to Caid for a Coronet Tourney in the

Barony of the Isles (Santa Barbara).  The tourney site

was fairly wild and had a stream running through it.

Stephan was about 5 or 6 at the time.  He had gotten

bored and wandered off following the stream looking

for, if I recall correctly, frogs and such.  He was

not missed until closing court.  We had to delay

closing court for 1.5 hours while we all fanned out

and searched for him.  He was found several miles

upstream. Paul had made some comment about how hard it

was keep track of his kids when on the throne because

his kids tended to scatter.  Someone then quipped,

"Like ducklings, huh?"  And the name stuck, at least

here in Caid.





From: "Trish Kvamme" <ladyoftherose at hotmail.com>

To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org


Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 21:33:24 GMT


>That is the case in this Kingdom. There have been Kings in other

>Kingdoms that have not been members of the Chivalry.  I believe

>that Caid has had a couple.



Caid had two to my knowledge.  The first was Glen ap Rhodri (now Earl Sir

Glen) who was King at 18, and did a job worthy of someone with the maturity

of many years beyond his (this was early 80's) youth.  After his reign, his

conduct and his chivalry showed him worthy to be elevated.


He had made it clear to his knight that if he had ever won a crown before he

became a knight, he did not want to be "belted" as prince, but wanted to

reign first, to show his merits as a possible member of the chivalry.


He is a really neat person, but hasnt been very active due to his career in

professional football *grin*


The other is Duke Dirk Ivanovich whom I only briefly met once after I had

moved away from Caid.


So there is my foreign Kingsom history lesson for the day *L*





Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 17:34:43 -0500

From: Vicki Shetler <shetler at home.com>

To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: ANST - SCA PEERS


That is correct, Duke Dirk has won and sat the throne twice in Caid without ever being made a knight or master.


Isolde von Rugen



Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 09:13:09 -0700

From: Susan Fox-Davis <selene at earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: SC - other names for cola


>         And all of that started with a group of folks in Caid who were giving

> Coca-Cola as a prize for their tourney.  They wanted to know what the

> name of the group in Atlanta was, as it was the home-town of Coke, and

> coined the phrase for their event.  We did not find out about it until

> some time later, but we liked it a lot when we did hear about it.  We

> have since had tourneys by the same name.

>         Mistress Christianna

>         Barony of the South Downs


Um... that would have been me, in Caid, sometime in the late '80's.  That was a

long time ago! The expression "Ale-Tavia" which didn't quite sound harmonious to

my ear.  But we 'valley girls' will insist on our Diet Cokes, at least we found a way to sneak it in without totally destroying the period ambience.


We need to write a song, that will get the word out.  Maybe to the tune of 'That

Good Old Mountain Dew", that good old South Downs Ale... will work on it.



an Altavia Girl, fer sooth



From: Stephen <stephen at invalid.verso.org>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Questions about Chisels

Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 14:27:04 +1300


> Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

>> Somebody else

>> (don't even know the name) got his for photography.  (Living in

>> Caid when it was still part of the West.)


Anthony J. Bryant wrote:

> You've got to be kidding about that. Please tell me you're kidding.


I've even corresponded with a lady who claimed to be that Laurel!


As far as I recall, she received her laurel in the days when there were

no Pelicans, and the implication I got was that she'd done a lot of

service for the kingdom, and Powers That Be wanted to recognize that,

and the thing they came up with was photography.


But I've never actually met the person, so it's mostly hearsay.



Quarterly Gules and Argent

Dartonshire, Lochac



From: Stephen <stephen at invalid.verso.org>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Questions about Chisels

Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 14:34:39 +1300


> But I've never actually met the person, so it's mostly hearsay.


From http://www.sca-caid.org/laurels/Joan.htm


Mistress Joan of Crawfordsmuir

Photography and Cooking

Elevated April 29, l978

By Terrence and Allisandra

King and Queen of the West



Quarterly Gules and Argent

Dartonshire, Lochac



Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 03:14:43 -0700 (PDT)

From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: Creative Supplimentation (was RE: [Sca-cooks] English

        Doctors       want to ban pointy knives...)

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


Hi Celia!


As a long time resident of the Kingdoom of Caid [31 years next Sept.] and a Feast chef for almost as long, another reason for the lack of frequent banquets and a lack camping events in Caid is that, not counting our Hawaiian territories, we are a very compact kingdom and Southern California is a very heavily populated area.  People can drive to one  day events and go home to a warm bed and clean showers.


If you have had the opportunity to ever drive from Califia [San Diego] to Angels [Los Angeles],you will notice that as you drive north there are very few areas of wilderness or rural farmland. Just a whole lot of interconnected cities. Consequently, wild, open areas in Caid are fewand far between.  So, our camping events are the wars, of which there are currently six.  Although there has been a push in Caid to restart the West-Caid wars.  If that happened, that would be seven.


Here in Angels, which is Los Angeles, there are only a couple of parks that have enough territory to hold a camping event.  One is Griffith Park, which is in the heart of Los Angeles.  I believe we have tried to have a camping event there, but the park is hideously expensive and located in an urban area where it is used at night by mundanes of questionable intent.  The event wasn't well attended and we lost a lot of money.  Another area is Whittier Narrows Park. It has very nice facilities and the cost is more reasonable than Griffith Park, but it is located in a poor neighborhood with heavy gang activity.  We had one camping event there.  The event went mostly well until a young teenaged girl got up in the middle of the night on a Sunday night to use the privies and was assaulted by two or three gang members.  Fortunately her screams brought a couple dozen men with swords drawn which scared away her attackers.  She wasn't injured, just badly frightened. However, it was decided that the park was just too dangerous to use again.


I was part of the committee that put on our 20th Anniversary Celebration, now 15 years ago.  We wanted to put on a four day camping event in an area within our borders.  Other than the two parks I mentioned, most of the campgrounds in our borders were in the mountains, which had nice camping areas, but no suitable areas for fighting.  We eventually found a privately owned campgrounds that had a smallish but decent fighting area.  They charged us over $5000 for the weekend.


  I am told that the event was a lot of fun.  I spent all my time putting on two banquets for 300+people using a very primitive kitchen, i.e. no running water and a few counters, but they did have a huge 5'x3' charcoal grill, a propane griddle and a 25 gallon propane coffee pot.  I managed to serve period foods quite successfully.  The first night was a Royal feast of 15 dishes, servers and table decorations.  The second night was a beggar's feast, where we feed the leftovers + a few extras and the diners had to beg the cooks for their supper.  I spent Labor Day scrubbing borrowed pots and being generally exhausted.


When I first joined the SCA, getting decent halls for events was relatively easy and cheap. We used to have a lot of banquets, mostly consisting of period foods. However, as church's budgets tightened, they began to raise prices until it is difficult to find a hall for less than $1000 for one night.  A couple of years ago, I found a great hall for 12th Night, but I had to wheedle, cajol and plead poverty to get the cost of that hall down to $2000 for the one night.  And if you are putting on a smaller event, like a baronial anniversary,$2000 is just not affordable.   There are three events that usually bring in enough people to warrant a large banquet, and they are 12th Night and Spring and Fall Coronation.  Our next Coronation is this coming weekend, it has a banquet and is being held in Califia.


As for getting game meats for banquets and/or growing ones own food, that just isn't a possibility here, as very few of our members live in rural areas where one can grow enough food to put on a 300+ banquet.  As for using and or finding game meats, it is very costly for one person to go hunting here and the limits are such that one person couldn't provide enough meat for an entire banquet. Such meats are very costly when purchased in a supermarket.


As for your experience with camping at Potrero.  Households are not all the same. You can find in Caid every kind from the extremely period reenactors down to the guys who are just there for the fighting, drinking and jiggle bunnies, who don't give a darn what they eat as long as it tastes good, is plentiful and is cooked by someone other than themselves.


Caid has several baronial level cooking guilds.  I believe there are at least two in Califia.  The Baronies of Gyldenholt, Dreiburgan and Wintermist and the Shires of Darachand of Heatherwyne all have a cooking guild of some sort.  There might be others that I am not aware of.


Yes, we do have a different approach to what kind of events we hold, but that doesn't make the many less fun.  And you will find that the events held on mainland Caid are different from those held in the Barony of Western Seas [Hawaii], both of which are different from that other kingdoms do.


I hope that you will enjoy your time in Caid.  I hope that someday we

can meet.


Huette von Ährens

Barony of Angels, Kingdom of Caid.


--- Celia des Archier <CeliadesArchier at cox.net> wrote:

> /me laughs...

> Alright, except that if you run them down with your car, you won't get

> arrested for killing them out of season, or for killing more than your

> "limit" ;-)

> But seriously, and trying to move back to the topic as relates to SCA

> Cooking ;-), I just moved from Meridies (the Southeast) to Caid (Southern

> California).  I wasn't active when I lived in South Downs (Atlanta, GA), and

> I haven't been active since I moved out here to Calafia (San Diego, CA), but

> in both cases I socialized with folks from the SCA, as well as folks who

> planned feasts for other camping activities.  I was very active on and off

> when I lived in Glaedenfeld (Nashville, TN) and did some feastcrating there

> {which shows my age ;-), as I understand that term is now out of favor and

> has been for a while :-) .}

> One of the things that has been a bit of culture shock since I moved out

> here has been the difference in cultural attitudes about feasting.  The

> first SCA folks I met out here were very kind and invited me to travel with

> their household with the upcoming Portrero War.  In an effort to repay them

> for their kindness I offered to play "camp Mom" and plan the meals,

> expecting to stay as "period" or "perioid" as possible, which shocked them.

> The idea of trying to at least contribute to the "illusion" by including

> period and perioid foods seemed foreign to them (as did the idea that their

> kids might actually enjoy those foods ;-)   I later found that the vast

> majority of the events here were 1 day events, or if they were two day

> events they concluded in the evening of day 1 and resumed on day 2.  The

> exception seemed to be the few large wars.  Again, I haven't had the chance

> to attend any events yet, and I've just recently renewed my membership, so

> this impression was obtained primarily second and third hand, by talking to

> folks, but out here feasting seems to be the exception rather than the rule,

> whereas in the Southeast it is almost always integral to the event.

> Now, I know that there are exceptional cooks out here in the West, so it was

> curious to me that this should occur, until I started talking to folks about

> the reasons why, and it seems that it comes down to two issues, both of

> which are primarily related to cost.  The first is that in the Southeast we

> have access to inexpensive parks, which doesn't seem to be the case out here

> in California.  Apparently getting a camping site for the weekend is simply

> prohibitively expensive out here, whereas it is not in the Southeast.

> But the other is that food is less expensive, and it is not at all unusual

> for feastcrats in the Southeast to supplement their feasts with wild game,

> often procured through very clever means.  I've known feastcrats (again,

> what we were called at the time, but I will be happy to use the current term

> if folks will let me know what they prefer) who have raised their own

> rabbits for stew, who have obtained free venison for an event of as many as

> 300 people by having a good relationship with their local 'ranger' (these

> were not road kill either, these where deer who had been hunted and dressed

> and then seized because they were either hunted out of season or above the

> hunter's bag limit.  The meat was then butchered for size and kept

> refrigerated to give away specifically to non-profit organizations), as well

> as feastcrats who hunted for their feasts.  And while procuring supplemental

> sources of meat probably had the most impact on the costs of the feast, I've

> also known feastcrats who grew their own herbs and vegetables as well. So

> there are often creative ways to provide ingredients for a feast both to

> decrease the cost and to more closely control the quality of the

> ingredients.

> So I was wondering, what other experiences folks have with creatively

> supplementing their feasts.  What different ways have you used to obtain

> ingredients for your feast, other than the "mainstream" ways (i.e. other

> than purchasing from a grocery, etc.)?  What were the reasons you

> supplemented your feast with ingredients which were not obtained through

> "mainstream" means?  What were the results?

> Celia des Archier



Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 11:58:52 -0700 (PDT)

From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: Creative Supplimentation (was RE: [Sca-cooks] English

        Doctors       want to ban pointy knives...)

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


Well, there is truth to the witticism "If four hours is a long drive or a short court, you must be a Caidan."  There are kingdoms where people would be grateful to have only a five hour drive to the nearest event.  And then there is the reign of Gregory of York and Bevan Fraser of Sterling, who were the only Caidans to sit on the Western Thrones, just before Caid became an independent kingdom.  Gregory lived/lives in San Diego.  Beven lived in the San Fernando Valley of Los Angeles.  Gregory and Bevan had to drive 10 to 12 hours and sometimes more to fulfill their duties as King and Queen of the West.  Hey, but they knew their jobs were dangerous when they took them, Fred.


During my most active years, way back when I was in my 20's and 30's, I didn't think twice about driving to Nordwache or Califia or Starkhavn for a kingdom event. I even took a Greyhound bus to Nordwache for a Coronation, when my car died and I couldn't find anyone who had room for me in their vehicle.  Now that was an experience.



Angels, Caid



Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 16:38:24 -0700

From: aeduin <aeduin at adelphia.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Caid Camping

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


> I'm curious... it has been quite a while since i actually lived in

> SoCal... With all those mountains east of the LA basin, why are there no

> events east or in the high desert? Or do Caidans just not want to get

> dirty? ;-p

> Pure curiosity and ignorance speaking here.

> --

> Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)

> the persona formerly known as Anahita


Most Caidans are afraid of dirt.  :-)


Part of it is Kingdom Culture.  Part is that most weekends there are at

least two events within reasonable driving distance for most of us.  Part

is the lack of place to hold multi-hundred people camping events that

people have presented.


AEduin who drives to the West to camp.



Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 16:37:30 -0700

From: Susan Fox-Davis <selene at earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Caid Camping

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


On 6/1/05 4:30 PM, "lilinah at earthlink.net" <lilinah at earthlink.net>


> I'm curious... it has been quite a while since i actually lived in

> SoCal... With all those mountains east of the LA basin, why are there

> no events east or in the high desert? Or do Caidans just not want to

> get dirty? ;-p

> Pure curiosity and ignorance speaking here.


OK, that's a real head-scratcher of a question.  What makes you think that

there are not?  The Baronies of Dreiburgen, Dun Or and Naevehjem are

alive and well and full of activity.





Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 12:28:39 -0700 (PDT)

From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Caid Camping

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


--- lilinah at earthlink.net wrote:

> I'm curious... it has been quite a while since i actually lived in

> SoCal... With all those mountains east of the LA basin, why are there

> no events east or in the high desert? Or do Caidans just not want to

> get dirty? ;-p

> Pure curiosity and ignorance speaking here.


There are events there.  There is the Shire of Al Sahid (Barstow / Victorville, California), the Barony of Dreiburgen (Riverside and San Bernardino Counties, California), the Barony of Dun Or (Lancaster / Palmdale area, California), the Canton of Gallavally  (Hemet/San Jacinto Valley/Idyllwild, California), the Canton of Mons Draconis (greater  Riverside area, California), the Barony of Naevehjem (Inyo and northeast Kern Counties, California),  the Barony of Nordwache (Fresno, Madera, Kings and Tulare Counties, California), Pagus Sancti Geronomi (central Riverside, California), the Canton of Steinsee (Yucca Valley / Twenty-Nine Palms,  California), and the Shire of Wintermist (western Kern County, California}.   They all hold  events, mostly local day events, occasionally Kingdom events and a few hold wars.  Dun Or holds the  Darkwell wars, Al Sahid holds the Highland wars (http://al-sahid.org/highlandwar/index.htm),  Nordwache holds the Treasure Chest wars, along with the Barony of Califia (San Diego/Imperial County, California) which holds two Potrero wars, on Memorial Day and on Labor Day. The Kingdom holds  the Great Western War, which you have been to, which is on the border of the Shire of  Heatherwyne and the Barony of Dreiburgen.   There have been other wars off and on, but the above are  the wars that have managed to continue on a regular basis.  There had been three Isabella wars,  before Naevehjem was formed, at Lake Isabella in Kern County, and were autocratted by a lady  from Angels.  And the Barony of Starkhavn (Las Vegas area, Nevada), used to hold Stark Wars,  but I haven't seen one of those is a while.


I believe that my point was not that we didn't have places to hold  wars, but that the central baronies of Caid, Angels, Altavia, Lyondemere, and Gyldenholt are so  densely populated, mundanely, that it is difficult to hold overnight camping events within our  borders.  The non-war two day events are our Kingdom coronations, followed the next day by the  Queen's Champion Tourney [usually not a camping event], Collegium Caidis [also not camping],  Winter Weekend, which is an arts and sciences event, held in the mountains of Dreiburgen, but there is no fighting at this event, at a private campground with a hall and cabins.  It was  originally started by the Barony of Altavia, because they didn't have a site that would  accomodate overnight camping. Altavia is two baronies and a shire away from the site.  It took the  average Altavian 2.5 to 3 hours to drive to this site.  However, the event became so popular  that Altavia had given up proprietorship of this event and the hosting responsibilites are rotated around.  The last Winter Weekend was hosted by Lyondemere [probably a good 3 to 4  hour drive from there]. And last, but not least, the Shire of Darach (Ventura County,  California), holds an annual A&S weekend event called Black Oak Lodge, very similar to Winter  Weekend, in a private camp grounds in Ventura County.  Unfortunately, because of the unusual rains  we had this year, Darach had to cancel this event.


But despite all of this, the majority of our events are one day, day-trip type events.


What I have mentioned above may seem a lot to some, but the Caidan  Calendar is very complicated and overly full.  There are 33 groups vying for 52 weekends, not  counting the four groups in Hawaii.  When you factor in the rule that Kingdom events don't have  competition for their days, this makes the available days even fewer.  Most Baronies have  three or four or more events each year. That also is one good reason why there are so many day  events.  Lyondemere might have an event on a Saturday, while Altavia has their event on Sunday. There  is also a rule that two groups within 100 miles of each other cannot have events on the same  day, this makes things even tighter.  So Califia (San Diego) might have an event on the same day as  Nordewache (Fresno) and also Western Seas (Hawaii).  Gyldenholt (Orange County) might conflict  with Starkhavn (Las Vegas) but they can't with Angels (Los Angeles).


I hope that this clears things up with you.





Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 19:32:25 -0700

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Tiki Torch Recall

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org


Stefan wrote:

>   Selene mentioned:

>> We don't even bother buying this in Fire Danger Land, aka Caid.  Tiki

>> torches are not allowed at any of our war sites.

> At all? Or just when there is a "a no open flames" restriction? What

> do you mean by "our war sites"? Do you mean all outside camping  

> events?

> Tiki torches, at least in the generic sense and not a specific brand,

> are rather common in Ansteorra. Of course they may be restricted at

> particular events which are under a "no open flames ban".


Here in the West, Tiki Torches (generic) are utterly totally

thoroughly irrevocably forbidden at our events - since most are

camping - and there's no reason to have then at the one-day events.


Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)

the persona formerly known as Anahita



Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 18:59:33 EDT

From: SilverR0se at aol.com

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Bad Cooking at Feasts - was Re:  good taste

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org


Caid has a classic Bad Feast, which was due more to a series of unfortunate

events rather than bad cooking.


This was my 1st SCA meal but fortunately it wasn't my last! (Which tells you

how long ago it was...)


This feast was arranged in haste, due to the fact that the King changed that

date of 12th Night at the last minute (this was back when this could be done)

and we had a number of visitors coming from Hawaii who could not change their



The Barony of Altavia decide to arrange an "11th Night" feast for our guests.

It took place in someone's house and was an assigned pot-luck, with 3 or 4

people bringing the same dish.


All the recipes were from "Fabulous Feasts" since we didn't know better back

then and, apparently, none had been tested. Also, the organizers had not taken

into account the fact the there was little or no reheating facilties.  The

fish quiche was OK room temperature, but some of the other dishes were not so

lucky. I seem to remember the parsnip fitters with mushroom ketchup was not a

happy experience.


But worse was yet to come...


Our host, a local Duke, had made his specialty - split pea soup. For some

reason he (as I found out later) use arrowroot to thicken it instead of corn

starch. This made the texture so awful it is still indescribable today. And then

it scorched. Bleech! To this day I cannot stand even the smell of split-pea



So this big, impressive Duke stands up from his place at the high board and

announces "Everyone's enjoying the soup, _right_?"


The only truly edible part of the feast was a roast turkey, decorated with

peacock feathers, which only the high board got to eat.


Still, a good time was had by all, once the meal was cleared away.


And Caid has a good story to tell.


Then there was the dish that was Salmon-pomagranate moose for 12 at the test

banquet but was soup for 200 at the feast. Still tasty, tho.





From: Chris Zakes <dontivar at gmail.com>

Date: November 10, 2007 10:22:43 PM CST

To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Ducal Perogative


At 11:15 AM 11/10/2007, Robin wrote:

> "robert segrest" wrote:

>> At any rate, I am continually amazed that a system of governance that

>> theoretically should be one of the worst possible methods for choosing

>> leaders seems to usually produce high quality administration, not  

>> only from our monarchs, but also from the officers they appoint.

> The SCA is a volunteer organization, and the principles of government are

> different.  The essential control over the government is not the vote, but

> the fact that we can always walk away.


Precisely. Engraved on the inside of the Crowns of Caid are the

words: "You rule because they believe." That's a good thing for *any*

Crown to keep in mind.


         -Tivar Moondragon



Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 14:47:35 -0700

From: Dragon <dragon at crimson-dragon.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Potrero War Welcome Potluck

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>


Elaine Koogler wrote:

> OK...you're talking about Great Western War, right??  Here in our  

> neck of the woods, when you refer to "the War" you're talking about  

> Pennsic!  Too bad...I'd love to meet you!

---------------- End original message. ---------------------


Not GWW. Potrero.


Potrero War happens in the Barony of Calafia (San Diego County, CA).

It happens twice a year, on Memorial Day weekend and Labor Day

weekend. As far as I know, we are one of the only Baronies that puts

on its own war.


It's a small one but a fun one in the far Southwest reaches of the

Kingdom of Caid. In May it usually draws between 2000 and 3000 people

and in September it draws about 1000.


More information on May Potrero War:






From: "David Backlin" <edrei at smythkepe.org>

Date: June 9, 2008 5:55:41 PM CDT

To: "calontir" <CALONTIR at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU>, "Ansteorra" <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>

Cc: Smythkepe <Smythkepe at yahoogroups.com>, Oakheart <Oakheart at yahoogroups.com>, Crystal Mynes <Crystal_Mynes at yahoogroups.com>

Subject: [Ansteorra] Fw:  Grand Theft at  Caid  Coronation


-----Original Message-----

From: "Lorissa \(Lora\)" <lorissais at yahoo.com>

Date: June 9, 2008 7:54:00 AM PDT

Reply-To: lorissais at yahoo.com, Caid General List? <caid at caid-commons.org>


Greetings! Please feel free to cross post this.


My truck and a vehicle from Starkhafn were both broken into. There was no damage to my truck and as far as I know the other vehicle is fine. What was taken is as follows:


1. The Queen's Champion Sword & Scabbard (Kingdom is working on replacing it as we speak.) They left the tabard.

2. The Queen's Rapier Sword & Scabbard (Thee Rapier community has wanted to replace it for a wile and has stepped up the timing on that.) They left the cape.

3. The Un-Armored Combat Sword & Scabbard (Kingdom is working on replacing that as well.)

4. The Awards box (HG Falina says there are enough medallions in stock to last us till we order more.) We will need more cords, Silver and Blue and white, Vanguards of Honor and Cord de Guerres.

5. HRM's Court favors (More are being made now, Thank you.)

6. My Dragon wing (pavilion) (My Freehold and friends have already paid for a new one, Thank you!)

7. Griffin Freehold's Feast box (Most of our feastware was in a trash bag under the seat of my truck and is fine but still needs washing :( )

8. One suit of Armor (Red carved leather and silver scale)

9. 3 Uncle Asis baskets

10. 1 pair of $300.00 Hair shears (I have 4 others and am fine.)

11. About 100-150 of my CDs (All of this music is on my lap top or i-pod)

12. My Chamberlain book.


From Starkhafn:

2 suits of Armor from 2 of their young fighters.


I don't have hopes of getting any of it back but the hotel did have a camera pointed right at my truck and the theft was caught on tape and the police have that tape. What I would like the populace to do is keep an eye on the Internet and the local swap meets. If you see anything please contact Countess Leonora or myself ASAP. It may take awhile for the stuff to show up.


My stuff can all be replaced and will be, I would like people to help the young Starkhafn fighters to replace their armor. (You can contact the Baroness for more details on that.) Also this is a hard lesson to learn. We need to be better about security of our own stuff. As I walked around QC there were baskets with wallets on top, car keys on tables and other valuables out in plain sight. The constables can only do so much. We need to remember we are in public Parks and our cars are not impenetrable.


I would also like to that the people of Caid who came forth to help. If we had taken all the award medallions that were offered Caid would be a naked place indeed :) The Archery community stepped up. Baron Jamal offered his own sword to use till the QC can be replaced. People were removing the cords from around their necks to give to TRMs to use. The awards for the morning were all donated from people's own necks.


Caid once again you make me proud to be one of your numbers.


Viscountess Lorissa du Griffin, OP

Chamberlain to Edward & Mora, King & Queen of Caid



From: Michele Bouchard <angeisdescent at yahoo.com>

Date: June 17, 2008 10:27:33 PM CDT

To: bryn-gwlad at lists.ansteorra.org

Subject: [Bryn-gwlad] 'small wars'




As I read the original post about the 'small wars' suggestion, I immediately thought back to the small....(well, it was pretty darn big, actually, but in the grand scale of wars like Estrella and Pennsic, it's dinky small)......twice-a-year war held back home in Calafia, Caid (San Diego County) called the May Potrero War, and the September Potrero War.  There have been contingents from Ansteorra, so perhaps a few in BG have been?


The two 'wars' began long ago as a war practice for the Caidian troops who didn't wanna get squashed by the Atenvelt war bands when Estrella rolled around.  It was put on by the Barony of Calafia, and it almost always lured Royal Presence. The 'Potrero' part of the name, incidentally, comes from the fact that it is held in a very rustic lil town called Potrero, which came to greatly appreciate the SCA so much that the signs for this event out on the highway are now permanent.  The Park rangers come to rely on the monies the SCA event brings in to them, and in return, the site is kept up to specs with warm showers, RV hookups (it's Caid, baby....RV war campin' was a way of life!) and areas specifically groomed for the battles.


There wasen't neccessarily a 'theme' for the events per se, other than what was neccessary from an artistic point of view....site tokens, classes, workshops, etc.  It became a place for Laurel's Prize Tourney's to be held, and for merchants and war goers alike to get in some good shopping.

I guess where I am going with this is.....'small wars' are a WONDERFUL idea! I've seen it work out great, for the SCA and the site it's held at.  It allows for big time fun without the big time travel budget, and quite honestly, it truly helps forge friendships and alliances that last a lifetime.

I'm very excited to see this idea proposed, and I can't wait to see what comes of it :)





From: Tom Kyle <tomkyle2 at gmail.com>

Date: February 20, 2009 9:14:04 AM CST

To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Water Bearing at Gulf Wars?


On waterbearing in general:


I'd like to comment on this subject.  First let me introduce myself:  I'm

Lord Tomas mac Caoil, recently re-located to Desoto from Las Vegas

(Starkhafn, CAID).  Our Barony has always had very active waterbearers,

often supplying 1/2 or more of the waterbearers at any given local war.  We

even went so far in Starkhafn as to make it a tounge-in-cheek "office", the

Admiralty. See, NSTIW, sitting around a campfire talking politics a few

years ago, several northern baronies formed the "Northern Alliance", a new

battle unit, still loyal to Kingdom, but outside the brigade structure.  It

was a mild form of protest by the "bastard stepchildren" outlying baronies.

One thing they agreed on was that everyone would hold the rank of "general",

in deference to some of the current politics.  One active waterbearer said,

"well, if the fighters get to be generals, can the water bearers be

admirals?" The name stuck.  All northern alliance waterbearers have been

known as admirals ever since.  They are also afforded equal billing with

fighters, marshals and chirurgeons in Starkhafn's "veteran's cloak" program,

whereby each figher (or waterbearer, etc.) is awarded a cloak after serving

with the barony for 5 or more wars.


As a heavy fighter, I have always and will continue to respect and

appreciate everyone that chooses to serve the dream by waterbearing.  It is

necessary, whether formalized or not.  Just because it can't be an

"official" office doesn't mean it can't continue to be well-organized and






Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:19:07 -0700

From: Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Largesse: What to avoid.

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>


avrealtor at prodigy.net wrote:

<<< We had a King here in Caid that was severely allergic to Rosemary. Couldn't even touch it or be around it (or anyone who had handled it)


-Muiriath >>>


... which proved a Situation when he won Crown... the tournament winner

is traditionally invested with a chaplet of rosemary upon victory,

before being invested as Crown Prince.  After a while, we started to

stock an alternate chaplet or just skip that part if he won.


And of course, the cooks were all properly warned.





Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 18:37:32 -0700

From: Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] The Naming of Names - slightly OOP


You are right with the founding baronies of Caid.  Isles is no longer a

barony though it was at the time.


I have done extensive research and we had the name first.   Let Al-Qaeda

change theirs instead.


With resolve,

Selene Colfox


On 5/28/11 6:23 PM, Stefan li Rous wrote:

Urtatim said:

<<< The other principality in the central West Kingdom is the

Principality of Cynagua (a pun I believe...) >>>


Yes. From the [Florilegium] Branch-Names-art file:

"Cynagua - Derived from the Spanish sin agua "no water" as this

Principality is in California's Central Valley, which is a desert.[4]"


Also, earlier I mentioned Caid but couldn't remember the founding

groups. This same article says:

"Caid - Both an acronym of the four founding baronies (Califia,

Angles, Isles, Dreibergen) and means "fortress" in Arabic. The crown

prince of Caid is referred to as al-Caid which means "commander of the

fortress". [4]"





Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 12:53:12 -0700 (GMT-07:00)

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] The Naming of Names - slightly OOP


Selene wrote:

<<< You are right with the founding baronies of Caid. Isles is no longer a

barony though it was at the time.


I have done extensive research and we had the name first. Let Al-Qaeda

change theirs instead. >>>


Well, to be perhaps more than a bit pedantic...


1.) the K sound in Caid and the Q in al-Qaeda are two significantly different sounds.


The "K" sound in Caid is a voiceless velar plosive, i.e., made with the back of the tongue pressed against the soft palate, with outward airflow powered by the diaphragm out the open throat.


Where as the "Q" in the other word is a voiceless uvular stop, i.e., made at the uvula by partially closing the throat before pushing the air out.


Since English lacks the Arabic sound, most news readers pronounce the "Q" like a "K". But if you listen to Arabic speakers or knowledgeable presenters, the sounds are quite different.


2.) the "ai" in Caid and the "ae" in al-Qaeda are also not the same sound.


The "ai" in Caid sounds like "ah-ee", where as the "ae" in the other word is "ah-ay".




(Sheesh, if we had to think about where/how we produce each and every sound we make while speaking, i think most of us would be rendered speechless)


Urtatim [that's err-tah-TEEM]

the persona formerly known as Anahita

who studied Arabic for not quite a year, and wants to get back to it again, but classes tend to conflict with Balinese gamelan rehearsals :-(


<the end>

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