Anst-hist-msg - 3/22/01
Histories of the Kingdom of Ansteorra related through December 1997.
NOTE: See also the files: Anst-hist2-msg, SCA-hist1-msg, SCA-stories1-msg, Aten-hist-msg, placenames-msg, Hst-SCA-Fence-art, vanity-plates-msg.
************************************************************************
NOTICE -
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.
Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).
Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
************************************************************************
Newbie Kings Answer
Date: 31 Jan 92
From: rkister at lonestar.utsa.edu (Robert F. Kister)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Gentles of the Rialto, I greet you well!
Having waited for some time for someone else to answer this, and no longer
being able to stand the suspense (not to mention the "Well, I _think_...
answers), I am here to give satisfaction on the matter of whether there
ever was a "newbie" king:
The answer is "yes".
When Inman won his first Crown Tournament in Ansteorra, he had been a member
for about nine months, maybe a bit longer. Since our Kingdom Laws then
stated (and still state, I believe) that an entrant into a Crown list had
to have been active in the SCA for 1 year, the Crown waived this requirement
for him so he could enter. He won the tournament.
For those of you wondering/arguing about "belted/unbelted kings", Inman was
belted either right before or during or after his second reign. (I think....
Sorry, folks, it was a long time ago and my memory is getting muddled; anyway,
it was _sometime_ around his second reign....Or was it the third? Aargh!
Who cares?)
Just as a final note, Inman and Athena just stepped down at Coronation this
past weekend -- his fifth reign, her first.
Hope this has helped.
=============================================================Mari ferch Rathyen
Barony of Bjornsborg
Kingdom of Ansteorra "Making the world a better place through food fights"
=============================================================
Date: 1 Feb 92
From: vnend at hotlips.Princeton.EDU (D. W. James)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Organization: Princeton University
In article <1992Jan29.143516.6935 at mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> mcochran at isis.cs.du.edu (Mark A. Cochran) writes:
)In article <1992Jan29.084040.59980 at eagle.wesleyan.edu> hzhao at eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
)>Does anyone know if a "newbie" ever actually has just walked in and won a
)>Crown?
)Hmmmmm well, Duke Inman of Ansteorra wasn't Knighted until either just
)before or just after his second reign. I don't know off hand how long
)he was in the SCA before his first reign, but I've got the impression
)that it wasn't a terribly long time. Perhaps somebody still down there
)could verify and the details and let us know?
)Edward
Inman's first reign started on 7/10/82. At that point he had
been serving as Steppes Knight Marshal for a good 6 months or more. I know
he had been fighting since at least the winter of 80/81, though I don't know
his actual starting date. I just know he was already doing very well when
I met him in Oct. 81. Add to that his previous experience and his native
speed and his success isn't that surprising.
He was knighted the day of the start of his second reign, 3/3/84.
I'd say that he was relatively new, but hardly a newbie.
Kwellend-Njal
--
Vnend, Lottery winner #316 Ignorance is the mother of adventure.
vnend at princeton.edu, vnend at pucc.bitnet, or {backbone}!princeton!nudity!vnend
Anonymous posting service (NO FLAMES!):vnend at ms.uky.edu
Recent "newbie" Kings
Date: 30 Jan 92
From: mc3078c%future at uunet.uu.NET ("Michael A. Chance - HQ")
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Organization: The Internet
Arval (recently unemployed 8-) asks for a recent counter-example to the
observation that the people winning Crown tournaments tend to be members
of long standing. The most recent example that I can think of is Duke
Patrick Michael Gordon of Ansteorra, who, if memory serves me correctly,
won his first Crown tournament after less than 2 years in the SCA. (I
believe that he was also knighted immediately prior to being invested as
Crown Prince.) That was in the spring of 1989. He has since won a second
Crown tounament, making him a Duke with less than 5 years SCA experience.
If I've gotten the facts wrong, perhaps one of our numbers in Ansteorra
who was a little closer to the persons involved will post a correction (or
add more info!)
Mikjal Annarbjorn
Barony of Three Rivers, Calontir (now recruiting for the Trivial Dispute!)
Barony of Shattered Crystal, Midrealm
--
UUCP : uunet!texbell!future!mc3078c
Internet : mc3078c at future.sbc.com
From: greg at bronze.lcs.mit.edu (Greg Rose)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Duke on a Motorcycle
Date: 10 Nov 1993 04:54:29 -0500
Organization: MIT LCS guest machine
Harald Isenross writes:
>Tio's subject line reminds me of a story I heard from Ansteorra:
>A biker rode up to his first event which happened to be an Ansteorra
>Crown Tourney. He entered the Crown list and won. He *then* realized
>the import of what he had done (winning Crown before understanding the
>expectations). From this experience, the future Duke Paul Inman saw
>fit to set entry requirements for future Crown Tourneys along the lines
>of residency period, SCA officer experience, and such.
Nice story, but utterly untrue. First, His Grace's Name is Charles Inman
MacMoor, not Paul. Second, Inman had been a member of the Society for
a year and a day (literally) at the time at which he won his first
crown tourney. Third, the residency requirement had been placed into
law by the first Crown of Ansteorra, Duke Jonathan and Duchess Willow.
Fourth, Inman, in his second reign, added an office-holding experience
requirement to the criteria for entry into Crown tourney.
Perhaps Harald is conflating the incident with Inman's first meeting
of Drusilla of Northumbria (who would be the queen of his fourth reign,
much later). Drusilla was mundanely a police officer and had been
working troll. Both facts were relevant when she saw the scruffy
biker types ride up to the event in Emerald Keep. The rider she had
met in her police capacity some time before, and not too pleasantly.
The driver she knew not at all. Drusilla, who is given to plain speech,
enquired of her colleagues at troll in a loud voice, "who are these
biker assholes?" The driver, who was Inman, replied: "The king; who
the hell are you?" Drusilla, who was very new to the Society, was
mortified and spent much of the event trying to apologize to the king.
She even volunteered to serve him lunch, although her spilling the
hot soup into his crotch was not part of the usual service. When she
was called into court that evening, she expected banishment at a
minimum; Inman gave her an AoA instead.
Hossein/Greg
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: dickerso at gomez.stortek.com (Russell Dickerson)
Subject: Re: Commentary on Publications Policy (part 2)
Keywords: Publications, policy, corporation, board, newsletters
Organization: Organized?
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 14:31:53 GMT
MCNUTT at gateway.ce.utk.edu (Bill McNutt) writes:
>>Again, to prevent personal loans.
>I have a hard time believing this was a problem. (Not that I doubt your word.
>I just have a hard time getting my mind around the concept that someone would
>consider group funds any less than a sacred trust. I consider these personal
>loans you keep mentioning "theft.")
Bjornsbourg, the Barony in San Antonio, TX, lost several thousand dollars of
funds because of this. Although the details are not well know, the bannishment
is a matter of public record.
Russell
--
| Russell Dickerson | Storage Tek Customer Emulation Lab | Louisville, CO |
| dickerso at gomez.stortek.com <------ email address #1 |
From: ansteorra at eden.com (2/22/95)
To: ansteorra at eden.com
>Shire of Mooneschadowe, formerly spelled in some mysterious way that sounded
>like "mona-skedu-a" (for those of you collecting histories)
It was spelled Mona Sceaduwe.
Estrill Swet
Mooneschadoweshire
Stillwater, OK
dssweet at okway.okstate.edu
From: ansteorra at eden.com (2/20/95)
To: ansteorra at eden.com
RE>old groups
Unto Maire, Greetings.
In reference to your question about old names, Middleford used to be
Gwendebourne and Bryn Gwlad had another name that I can't recall at this
time. I will contact our historian, Lady Alina, or perhaps Lord Stefan
will relay the question to her.
In Service to the Kingdom.
Lady Zahra Zena
From: ansteorra at eden.com (2/28/95)
To: ansteorra at eden.com
RE>Origins of Ansteorra...
As I understand it, the origin of the name of our kingdom is to be found in
the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, which refers to the "an steorra", the "one star",
unique and singular in the heavens; Halley's Comet, which also appears in
the Bayeaux Tapestry. Thus the central star in the kingdom arms, the Award
of the Sable Comet, and our kingdom's motto, "Unicus et Singularis".
I confess I find this a pleasing origin story. For all I know, it might even
be true.
- Galen of Bristol,
who used to be a herald,
and whose personal motto is
"Noblesse Oblige"
From: "L. Cockerham, Texan" <stddly at shsu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Longest-active SCA members
Date: 14 Jun 1995 01:08:59 GMT
Organization: NRA, TSRA, NAHC, SCA, CMA, PACT, NLA, WWF, Sierra, Planetary Society, Smithsonian Assoc., Library of Congress Assoc., etc...
Greetings from Barony Ravens Fort, Anzteorra.
Michael of Moria, Laureled 1970, is (rarely) seen in the area of Barony
Stargate, so is Tarl Mapt at 22+ years, as is Bran de Tintreak at 22+.
Here in Ravens Fort we have a member with the #1500 on his membership
card, Michael FitzRamond de Twin Cedars. He had been looking for the
S.C.A. for several years when he finally found them in about 72-73...Gee,
all these "old folk" make me feel right young again ;^). I know there are
more out there...I'll snoop some more...
With Love for the Society,
A. Kief av Kiersted (KSCA, Baron Ravens Fort [ret.], CSM, CIM, ODT, Lion
of Ansteorra) L. Cockerham, Texan
From: ansteorra at eden.com (8/8/95)
To: 'ansteorra at eden.com'
FW: Queen's Champion tournament
I said:
>The most surprising entrant was Don Simonn of Amber Isle.
Stefan li Rous replied:
I fear I do not know this man. Why was he the most surprising
entrant, pray tell?
He was surprising for the same reason that you do not know him. Simonn and Tessa have not been playing much in recent years.
**Disclaimer: I've only been playing for 10 years. Most of the following was before my time, so I learned it second hand. Any inaccuracies are my own.
Simonn is a Viscount and Count of Ansteorra. He is a Master of the Laurel and a
Knight. Princess Tessa awarded Lord Tivar with the Cavalier of Ansteorra. Soon a charter was written, and the Cavalier became the Order of the White Scarf of Ansteorra (now a kingdom). Tivar is the only Cavalier. The Academy of the Rapier IX book cover has a wonderful drawing of Tessa pinning a White Scarf onto Tivar.
Too bad it didn't happen that way. Simonn and Tessa were Baron and Baroness of
Bordermarch for 9 years.
Does this help you understand why many in the rapier community admire and respect them, and were happy to see them again?
Llywelyn
From: Nan Bradford-Reid (8/7/95)
To: Mark Harris
RE>Queen's Champion tournam
>Lord Llywelyn Gruffydd says:
>
>>The most surprising entrant was Don Simonn of Amber Isle.
>
>I fear I do not know this man. Why was he the most surprising
>entrant, pray tell?
>
>Stefan li Rous
>Barony of Bryn Gwlad
>markh at risc.sps.mot.com
I am sure you will get a ton'o'mail on this, but let me give an
introduction to one of the legends of Ansteorra, *Count* Simonn of Amber
Isle, KSCA, OL, WSA, etc., and the last Prince of the Principality of
Ansteorra.
Simonn was one of the earlier kings of Ansteorra, just exactly where he
fits in, I'm not sure (somewhere around 8 or 10), but he's a grand fighter,
and a grand man. Small, lightning fast. He and his lovely wife, Countess
Tessa, were Baron and Baroness of Bordermarch for YEARS. They are Baron
Bordermarch and Baroness Bordermarch, which means they founded the barony.
They stepped down some time ago and have not been active for awhile--their
sixteen year old son was killed 3 or 4 years ago in an auto accident and I
have not seen much of them since then. It is indeed marvelous to have them
back.
Catherine
Nan Bradford-Reid
n.b-reid at mail.utexas.edu
From: ansteorra at eden.com (10/3/95)
RE>GoR who etc. . . .
>To be clearer on my question, here's two different entries from the Roll
>of Precedence, showing only their Grant level awards.
>
>Anne Louise of Bluecastle - Barony 07/31/82 the Steppes
> GoR 01/07/84
>
>Bjorn Magnusson Esping - Barony 10/20/79 Baron Namron
> CSM 11/18/79
> CIM 10/09/82
> GoR 10/20/79
>
>The first one shows someone receiving a Grant two years after becoming a
>landed baroness. The second one shows someone receiving a barony and a
>grant on the same date. I could list *many* more examples of both of
>these two circumstances.
>
>So why? Is it a case of "ohmighod, the scroll didn't *say* grant, so we
>better award them a GoR"? Or, is it a case of poor research? Or is it a
>case of the belief that *both* the barony *and* the grant had to be
>recorded in the roll of precedence?
>
>Estrill
The reason for this condition, is that our current rules involving the
Grants of Rank are a "relatively new development."
In it's early days, Ansteorra used the system that it inherited from
Atenveldt.
Attenveldt gave no special precedence to Landed Nobility. The first
Ansteorran Crowns felt that this was an odd situation, and "routinely"
(except when they forgot) gave a Grant with a territorial Barony. In
a similar fashion, Court Barons received no special precedent either.
Thus, many Court Barons (such as myself) received a Court Barony, and
were later given Grants.
[There was a Society wide discrepancy involving the prestige of Court
Baronies. In some Kingdoms (in the Aten tradition for example), Court
Baronies were a fairly prestigious award, and the idea of including a
Grant seemed like gilding a lily In other Kingdoms, a Court Barony
was virtually a joke award. The BoD felt that a joke order of Nobility
was not in keeping with the spirit of the reenactment (and debased all
nobility), and required that a Court Barony at least include an AoA.
Ansteorra went one better, and included a Grant with a Court Barony.
(the attention given to the current system of precedence was less formal
after most groups grew too big to have regular Marches in Precedence at
courts).
Over several years, the Crowns changed Law to bring it into it's current
form, but the early years reflect the hodge podge of the transition from
Aten tradition to our current Ansteorran tradition.
- Bran
__________________________________________________________________
Jim Langley
Senior Hardware Engineer
Syntron Product Development
Syntron Inc.
713-647-7303
langj at mail.syntron.com
__________________________________________________________________
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996
From: horton at dhostwo.convex.com (Patricia Horton)
To: ansteorra at eden.com
Subject: NMS
With respect to the NMS, Inman fought the Board hard, but had to
make concessions to keep things moving forward. After pay-to-play had
dropped, the Board instituted pay-to-fight. We were still refusing to collect
the NMS under Fredrick as Kingdom Seneschal. Just before Inman stepped down
he made the offer, if the Board would drop pay-to-fight, we (Ansteorra) would
collect the NMS. The Board dropped pay-to-fight, leaving it up to the Kingdoms.
When Jean Richard took the throne I asked, as the new KS, if he would honor
the offer made by Inman. I have asked each Crown since then giving the
history. Each has agreed to honor the deal made by their predecessor. I will
be asking Galen and Rebecca at the GOofS meeting just before they step up.
So, we did not go back on our fight or honor as a Kingdom. Our Crown made
an offer and we have honorably stuck to it. I hate this thing as much as
the next, and still question the "desperate" need for money. Yes, since I
have become KS, I do know the Board had run itself dry of operating reserve
and subscription liability. Yes, I do believe they needed to rebuild that.
Seems like we have gone a long way to rebuild it based on the figures I have,
partly do the the NMS. Do we still need it? I have my doubts. I have asked
you to reply to the Board's request for input. I made that request in both
the Blackstar and my monthly to the Seneschals. Instead of complaining here,
write to the Board. Don't wait for your leaders to do something, move on your
own.
Maire
From: Galen of Bristol <ptm2792 at utarlg.uta.edu>
To: ansteorra at eden.com
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 06:55:12 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Knights
On Thu, 18 Jul 1996, Jeff Childers wrote:
> what exactly is a master at arms? is it a form of peerage?
> Gareth
The Chivalry of the SCA is divided into two equal-ranking orders:
The Order of Knighthood of the SCA (KSCA) and the Order of Mastery of
Arms of the SCA (MSCA). Knights wear unadorned gold chains (symbolic of
fealty) and white belts (symbolizing purity). Masters, who -- unlike
knights -- cannot be required to swear fealty, wear white baldrics (a
belt worn over one shoulder). Both sometimes wear gold spurs.
New members into either order are created by the Crown after consultation
with the Chivalry as a whole (that is, both orders are consulted about
candidates for either order).
Yes, Masters of Arms are peers.
Knights can be (and usually are) required to swear fealty by the Crown,
and to renew that fealty periodically (traditionally this is done at
<